View Full Version : Rolling 0

Decahedral Tofu

2008-12-20, 10:24 PM

So, looking at some d10's, pretty much all of them range from 0-9. A d8 ranges from 1-8. It doesn't take a math major to do the math: they both average to 4.5. That means that a d10 weapon will have the same average damage as a d8 weapon, but with a wider range of damage, and having a less reliable weapon never pays off. So do you Greatsword wielders just consider the 0 a 10? Seems like the easy solution. Although really, it's silly to play with all these damage dice when, at higher levels, 60%-80% of the damage comes from your damage modifier. I just go ahead and roll a d6 for the severity of the attack and then factor in sharpness, weight, strength modifier, and whatever else seems relevant. I mostly just use my d10 to keep track of my lifetotal in M:TG. (2d10 and a d12 and you can get up to 1299 life on the dice. :D)

pingcode20

2008-12-20, 10:26 PM

Nah - a D10 is rolled as 1-10, giving it an average of 5.5. The 0 is called as a ten, except when used as the ones die for a d100 roll.

Starsinger

2008-12-20, 10:26 PM

I'm gonna assume this is serious. A 0 on a d10 means 10. (unless you're using it as a d100 then it's different)

Prometheus

2008-12-20, 10:30 PM

Yeah, actually treating 0 as 10 on the d10 is the default rule - they just don't show it. If you roll d% or d100 or two d10s to represents 1 through 100, than the 'tens' goes from 0-9 and the 'ones' go from 1-10 (bumping up the 'tens' die by one when the 'ones' show 10).

As far as simplifying the dice to d6s, it's a move a lot of non-D&D rpgs tends to head towards, and some people carry it over to D&D. There are a lot of different systems of transfering, but most people are purists when it comes to rolling their dice.

Like what everyone else said, 0=10 on a d10.

Gralamin

2008-12-20, 10:35 PM

Yeah, actually treating 0 as 10 on the d10 is the default rule - they just don't show it. If you roll d% or d100 or two d10s to represents 1 through 100, than the 'tens' goes from 0-9 and the 'ones' go from 1-10 (bumping up the 'tens' die by one when the 'ones' show 10).

I've seen others who act this way as well, though for the life of me I don't see why. In that system 0 on tens and 0 on ones is 10, and 9 on tens and 0 on ones is 100. I just read exactly what it rolls, IE: 1 and 0 is 10, 9 and 0 is 90, and memorize one special case 0 and 0 which is 100. For some reason, it just makes more sense to me to do this and skip the almost insignificant math step, but that might just be me.

Blood_Lord

2008-12-20, 10:59 PM

Also, Greatswords are 2d6, not 1d10. But whatever.

Alteran

2008-12-21, 12:32 AM

In 4e they're 1d10, so he may be referring to that.

Magnor Criol

2008-12-21, 12:48 AM

I've seen others who act this way as well, though for the life of me I don't see why. In that system 0 on tens and 0 on ones is 10, and 9 on tens and 0 on ones is 100. I just read exactly what it rolls, IE: 1 and 0 is 10, 9 and 0 is 90, and memorize one special case 0 and 0 which is 100. For some reason, it just makes more sense to me to do this and skip the almost insignificant math step, but that might just be me.

Efficient thinking for the win.

That's how I always view it as well.

Prometheus

2008-12-21, 01:13 AM

I've seen others who act this way as well, though for the life of me I don't see why. In that system 0 on tens and 0 on ones is 10, and 9 on tens and 0 on ones is 100. I just read exactly what it rolls, IE: 1 and 0 is 10, 9 and 0 is 90, and memorize one special case 0 and 0 which is 100. For some reason, it just makes more sense to me to do this and skip the almost insignificant math step, but that might just be me.

I knew there was another way of doing it, but I couldn't recall it when I posted for whatever reason. In actuality, I tend to go back and forth on which I use (knowing which it is in advance, part of it is that I have a die that actually says "40" "30" etc which forces me to think different).

Tsotha-lanti

2008-12-21, 03:05 AM

Hilarious!

I thought most RPG books explained dice.

herrhauptmann

2008-12-21, 03:09 AM

Don't think they explain the numbering of a d10. Same with some of the d4's. The one where the numbers on one side are

1 2

3

instead of

3

1 2.

But both count as rolling a 3.

Tsotha-lanti

2008-12-21, 03:13 AM

d4s are easy, only one number is the right way up no matter how they're placed. But I could swear most of my RPG books - like RQ - explain the d10.

Kizara

2008-12-21, 03:13 AM

Hilarious!

I thought most RPG books explained dice.

Being as the books don't come with "official dnd dice" or the like, they don't actually know what your dice look like.

That being said, 0=10 thing is really common. Are you sure dice reading isn't explained anywhere? I vaguely remember seeing something in the DMG, but I don't care enough to check.

Attilargh

2008-12-21, 03:43 AM

The 4E PHB does explain it on page eight. Curiously enough, it seems 3.5 doesn't.

Knaight

2008-12-21, 03:53 AM

I seem to remember it though, and I know 3.0 did. Odd.

Kris Strife

2008-12-21, 05:16 AM

The 4E PHB does explain it on page eight. Curiously enough, it seems 3.5 doesn't.

Maybe 3.5 figured people who hadn't used them before would as the group, or figure it out on their own since none of the other dice can come up zero?

Tsotha-lanti

2008-12-21, 05:28 AM

Being as the books don't come with "official dnd dice" or the like, they don't actually know what your dice look like.

That's why the RQ books, for instance, say "Your d10 probably has numbers from 0 to 9. 0 is read as 10. When you roll d100, you roll two d10 - one is the tens, one is the ones. 00 means 100."

martyboy74

2008-12-21, 10:19 AM

That's why the RQ books, for instance, say "Your d10 probably has numbers from 0 to 9. 0 is read as 10. When you roll d100, you roll two d10 - one is the tens, one is the ones. 00 means 100."

Your d6 probably has numbers from 1 to 6. The 1 is read as a one. The six is read as a six.

Chapter Two: How To Roll Your Dice

Tsotha-lanti

2008-12-21, 11:14 AM

Dug out my RQ third edition deluxe book... under Materials, page 9, is Dice for the Game, which is actually a bit... complicated, because for some bizarre reason, you're supposed to use a bizarre d20 with 0-9 twice on its sides, and mark half those digits for the results 11-20. This dice would serve as both d10 (used for d100), and d20. I've never seen such a dice, but I suppose they must have been in relatively common usage once upon a time.

Go figure.

daggaz

2008-12-21, 12:00 PM

Ahahahhahahaha! This whole thread is just HILLLARIOUS! :smallbiggrin::smallamused:

Curmudgeon

2008-12-21, 12:13 PM

I think somebody's turning our cranks here. But I'm going to be serious anyway.

There's a lot of historic baggage associated with dice. Most d6s have dots rather than digits, which makes them just a bit slower to add up. You can buy more convenient d6s with digits in gaming supply stores, though. Most d10s have all single digits. Are there d10s with "10" instead of "0"? That would be nice. The first d20 dice were molded with only single digits, also; you were expected to use wax crayons to fill in the incised digits with two different colors, with one of those colors representing the "+10" upper range numbers. Now we expect to buy ready-to-use d20s with all digits 1 to 20. The first percentile dice were just two different d10s, and you were supposed to manually track which die represented the tens digit. But now gaming supply stores have percentile dice sets with one d10 labeled "00", "10", ... "90".

If anybody knows of d10s with "10" instead of "0", please let us know.

Tsotha-lanti

2008-12-21, 12:25 PM

I think I've had one or two, but they're the minority, and - as 90% of the dice I've had over the years - are long lost.

So yeah, they exist, but as far as I recall, they've mostly come as part of some board game. (Possibly a D&D themed one - I have 2-3.)

Who_Da_Halfling

2008-12-21, 02:32 PM

I think somebody's turning our cranks here. But I'm going to be serious anyway.

There's a lot of historic baggage associated with dice. Most d6s have dots rather than digits, which makes them just a bit slower to add up. You can buy more convenient d6s with digits in gaming supply stores, though. Most d10s have all single digits. Are there d10s with "10" instead of "0"? That would be nice. The first d20 dice were molded with only single digits, also; you were expected to use wax crayons to fill in the incised digits with two different colors, with one of those colors representing the "+10" upper range numbers. Now we expect to buy ready-to-use d20s with all digits 1 to 20. The first percentile dice were just two different d10s, and you were supposed to manually track which die represented the tens digit. But now gaming supply stores have percentile dice sets with one d10 labeled "00", "10", ... "90".

If anybody knows of d10s with "10" instead of "0", please let us know.

Don't forget the modern development of the M:TG d20s that are numbered sequentially with a set symbol over the 20 (usually). These dice CAN be rolled in such a way that they come up with a certain range more often than not (I don't believe that it is possible to actually roll them to always come up a certain number, but certainly you can drop it so that the higher range is up, with practice).

-JM

Tsotha-lanti

2008-12-21, 02:53 PM

"Dropping dice" is a standard way to cheat at dice. With smaller sides, like on a d20, it's going to be a bit harder, but you can certainly drop d6s so they always come up the way you want.

Roland St. Jude

2008-12-21, 03:30 PM

If anybody knows of d10s with "10" instead of "0", please let us know.

Like this? (http://www.dicecollector.com/D10_OPAQUE_ROUNDED_SOLID_FAMILY_LEARNING_04.jpg)

There are also d10's with the tens digit marked on them like this (http://www.dicecollector.com/D10_OPAQUE_ROUNDED_IRIDESCENT_CHESSEX_UNNAMED_02.j pg), which avoids arguments about whether that roll was a 93 or a 39.

Artanis

2008-12-21, 03:46 PM

When I was a kid, I remember a friend coming up with an RPG (which worked about as well as you could expect from a 5th-grader), and we used my watch's stopwatch function as the die. The hundredths of a second go by so fast that it can make for a pretty good d10.

Don't forget the modern development of the M:TG d20s that are numbered sequentially with a set symbol over the 20 (usually). These dice CAN be rolled in such a way that they come up with a certain range more often than not (I don't believe that it is possible to actually roll them to always come up a certain number, but certainly you can drop it so that the higher range is up, with practice).

-JM

I think I've heard of that too. Something about all the evens being on one hemisphere and the odds on the other, so spinning it like a top the right way makes it more likely to end up evens. That gives an advantage since 2-20 has a higher average than 1-19.

BobVosh

2008-12-21, 04:10 PM

Dug out my RQ third edition deluxe book... under Materials, page 9, is Dice for the Game, which is actually a bit... complicated, because for some bizarre reason, you're supposed to use a bizarre d20 with 0-9 twice on its sides, and mark half those digits for the results 11-20. This dice would serve as both d10 (used for d100), and d20. I've never seen such a dice, but I suppose they must have been in relatively common usage once upon a time.

Go figure.

Until about the 90s almost all D20s were that way. The most common method was to just put a dot with paint or a pen on the ones you wanted to add 10 to.

Don't forget the modern development of the M:TG d20s that are numbered sequentially with a set symbol over the 20 (usually). These dice CAN be rolled in such a way that they come up with a certain range more often than not (I don't believe that it is possible to actually roll them to always come up a certain number, but certainly you can drop it so that the higher range is up, with practice).

-JM

It is because of how it spirals down instead of sides adding to 21. As Tsotha-lanti mentions it is a way to drop it so the high numbered side ends up. Not a method to get 20s constantly, but a fairly good chances for 14+.

If anybody knows of d10s with "10" instead of "0", please let us know.

I know the exalted, and vampire dice do from white wolf. They are 1-10. Various speciality ones do, as someone linked.

I'm betting all the WW ones do, but those are the only two I know for sure.

Curmudgeon

2008-12-21, 04:17 PM

Like this? (http://www.dicecollector.com/D10_OPAQUE_ROUNDED_SOLID_FAMILY_LEARNING_04.jpg) Ooh, yes! Where can I get some?

I know the exalted, and vampire dice do from white wolf. They are 1-10. Really? Because I've got a set of their vampire dice in green and blood- (of course!) red, and they have 0s instead of 10s.

Tsotha-lanti

2008-12-21, 04:30 PM

Until about the 90s almost all D20s were that way. The most common method was to just put a dot with paint or a pen on the ones you wanted to add 10 to.

The weird thing is, the RQ 3E deluxe edition is from '93. I started playing around that time, and I've never ever seen a d20 like that...

Incidentally, if anyone suspects someone at the table of dropping dice, get a cup to roll dice with. There's a reason they're used for gambling with dice...

hotel_papa

2008-12-21, 05:37 PM

When I was a kid, I remember a friend coming up with an RPG (which worked about as well as you could expect from a 5th-grader), and we used my watch's stopwatch function as the die. The hundredths of a second go by so fast that it can make for a pretty good d10.

Neat. I love jury-rigged "dice" systems. In Iraq, we made a set of "dice" out of a few decks of playing cards. Shuffle, cut, crit!

Waspinator

2008-12-21, 07:27 PM

1-10 instead of 0-9 d10s do exist, but most dice manufacturers don't seem to want to have to squeeze two digits on one of the sides. It could have a slight unbalancing effect.....

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