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Thurbane
2008-12-30, 06:13 AM
Something just occurred to me - I've always thought it was odd that the club (and morning star) are simple weapons, yet the greatclub is a martial weapon. I was just thinking it would be more efficient to wield a large morning star instead.

Now, assuming a medium sized character only proficient in simple weapons, he could wield a medium greatclub (1d10 damage) at -4 penalty due to non-proficiency, or he could wield a large morning star (2d6 damage) at -2 penalty (in two hands) due to size.

I'm sure this isn't much of a revelation to most people, but it just makes the designation of greatclub as a martial weapon even sillier. :smallconfused:

AslanCross
2008-12-30, 07:06 AM
I didn't really notice that until now. Perhaps the game designers were thinking that people who would be using two-handed heavy weapons would be using martial-proficient classes anyway. Nevertheless, the greatclub still is just a big stick.

There's another silly bludgeoning weapon: the warmace. It's a 1d12 two-handed, x2 crit martial weapon. You can wield it one-handed with the appropriate EWP. But get this: it penalizes the wielder with a -1 to AC "because it's heavy". It weighs 10 lb.

On the other hand, the maul, which is a 1d10 x3 weapon, can be wielded in the same way: 2-handed martial or 1-handed exotic. It doesn't have the penalty. And it weighs 20 lb. :smallconfused: (They both come from Complete Warrior, btw)

I've found that as two-handed bludgeoning weapons go, the best is the executioner's mace (2d6, bludgeoning and slashing OR bludgeoning or piercing, x3 crit). It's Kyuss's favored weapon.

Adumbration
2008-12-30, 07:22 AM
I've found that as two-handed bludgeoning weapons go, the best is the executioner's mace (2d6, bludgeoning and slashing OR bludgeoning or piercing, x3 crit). It's Kyuss's favored weapons.

I've never seen that one. In what book is it?

AslanCross
2008-12-30, 07:24 AM
I've never seen that one. In what book is it?

I believe it appeared in the Age of Worms adventure path.

Paul H
2008-12-30, 02:17 PM
I believe it appeared in the Age of Worms adventure path.

Hi

Don't say that - we might have to face it!

Cheers
Paul H
(Playing Age of Worms, World's Largest Dungeon, et al..).

Paul H
2008-12-30, 02:25 PM
Hi

Just a thought - could be worse. Rather face a Druid with a metal weapon in his hand than anything made of wood.

OOoh look - that Druid just shaped into a Dire Ape and is pulling a dead branch off a tree. Looks a bit like a club. Now he's casting something...
What'd you mean that club does 3D6+1 base damage?

And that's one-handed, without the strength bonus damage......
(Large Great Club does 4D8+1 with Shillelagh cast on it).

Cheers
Paul H

Darrin
2008-12-30, 02:34 PM
Something just occurred to me - I've always thought it was odd that the club (and morning star) are simple weapons, yet the greatclub is a martial weapon. I was just thinking it would be more efficient to wield a large morning star instead.


Here's a few reasons why you might want to stick with the Great Club:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49522

Deepblue706
2008-12-30, 05:16 PM
Here's a few reasons why you might want to stick with the Great Club:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49522

You can use Morningstar with Three Mountains and Brutal Strike, you know. Three Mountains explicitly includes it, and the weapon is simultaneously Bludgeoning AND Piercing (not either/or) so it qualifies for Brutal Strike.

The Morningstar is actually among the best weapons around.

I know it's a little off-topic, but, a Fighter can specialize with it and get both Melee Weapon Mastery for Piercing and Bludgeoning from the same weapon; which means he can make use of both Driving Attack and Crushing Strike (should he acquire them) whenever he desires, too.

The weaknesses of the morningstar are simply the inability to perform trip attacks, and a lack of reach (carrying a Guisarme as a secondary weapon solves this problem easily). You can swap between one and two-handed, you can sunder with it, and you don't need to waste feats becoming proficient with it. d8 damage isn't great, but really a Fighter can abuse anything that can perform two-handed power attacks.

Thurbane
2008-12-30, 10:10 PM
Here's a few reasons why you might want to stick with the Great Club:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49522
Couldn't you do all of that with a Heavy Flail, at twice the critical range?

Oops, not Three Mountains, apparently...

xanaphia
2008-12-30, 10:14 PM
Remember the Weapon Equivalencies variant rule in DMG? They say that a medium greatclub works like a large normal club. You could use a greatclub one handed if you wished, just with -4.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-30, 11:04 PM
Remember the Weapon Equivalencies variant rule in DMG? They say that a medium greatclub works like a large normal club. You could use a greatclub one handed if you wished, just with -4.

Why would you want to, when you can use a morningstar one-handed already? 1 point lower average weapon damage, 20% better chance to hit = far higher average damage (in fact, the more damage you deal from Str etc., the bigger the advantage).

Who_Da_Halfling
2008-12-31, 01:48 AM
not to mention the multiple damage types for avoiding damage reduction (skeleton comes to mind). You could even use a Scythe as your reach weapon so you have access to all 3 types.

I personally usually have my characters always have a morningstar, if they're proficient with one. They're just so versatile.

-JM