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View Full Version : [4E] Need review on Solo Ooze - did I get this right?



Brasswatchman
2008-12-31, 02:58 PM
Hey - So I'm still trying to figure out how to make monsters for 4e, so even though this one is a pretty by-the-book adaptation, I'd appreciate it if you could all take a look at this and make sure I got it right. Basically, I've just made the MM's ochre jelly into a solo rather than an elite here; added in an aura and the engulf power; and upped it to Level 4 in terms of XP only (without upping HP, attacks, damages or anything else) to compensate for the extra powers. Does everything look okay? Thanks.

OOZE BOSS; Level 4 Solo Brute [XP 875]
Large aberrant magical beast (blind, ooze)
Initiative +0; Senses- Perception +2, blindsight 10, tremorsense 10
Poison Aura - aura 1; an enemy that ends its turn in this area takes 2 poison damage (Engulfed creatures are immune to this aura; see engulf below).
HP 172; Bloodied 86; see also split below.
AC 18; Fortitude 16; Reflex 14; Will 14
Resist: 5 poison; Immune gaze
Action Points: 1
Str 13 (+2); Con 11 (+1); Dex 8 (+0); Int 1 (-4); Wis 12 (+2); Cha 1 (-4)
Speed 4
Slam (standard; at-will) * Poison: +8 v. AC; 2d6+1 damage; on-going 5 poison damage (save ends).
Engulf (standard; at-will) * Poison: The ooze attacks one or two Medium or smaller targets; +8 v. Reflex (automatically hits an immobilized target). On a hit, the target is grabbed and pulled into the ooze's space; the target is dazed and takes ongoing 10 poison damage until it escapes the grab. A creature that escapes the grab shifts to a square of its choosing adjacent to the ooze. The ooze can move normally while creatures are engulfed within it.
Split (when first bloodied; encounter): The ooze splits into two, each with hit points equal to one-half its current hit points. Effects applied to the original ooze do not apply to the second one.

Meek
2008-12-31, 03:22 PM
Monster Making in 4e isn't very difficult, but here's a big help:

http://www.asmor.com/scripts/4eMonsterMathCruncher/index.php

That said, the HP seems suspiciously low for a level 4 Solo Brute. Everything else looks fine, however. I would increase the poison damage dealt by the aura. Even if it is every turn, 2 damage is nothing...and this guy is a Solo, so he should be a little scarier than that.

Mercenary Pen
2008-12-31, 03:48 PM
Agreed on the low number of HP:

I've just compared it to a Lv4 Elite Brute in Draconomicon 1 (unfortunately still no Lv4 Solo Brutes from WotC), but the Lv4 elite with the same role had 136HP

Having worked through the calculations on p185 of the DMG, your Solo should have at least 204HP.

Izmir Stinger
2008-12-31, 04:10 PM
Having worked through the calculations on p185 of the DMG, your Solo should have at least 204HP.

His total amount of damage needed to kill it are going to be ~80 higher than its hit points, due to the split power.

EDIT: NM, I'm an idiot. Didn't read the "half current HP" part.

LiteYear
2008-12-31, 04:47 PM
I don't think you need to worry about it being too powerful by increasing it's stats by the solo calulations listed in the book. While it's attacks are strong (unsurprising because it's a Brute), it's slow and it's attack bonuses aren't too impressive.

Brasswatchman
2008-12-31, 04:48 PM
I've just compared it to a Lv4 Elite Brute in Draconomicon 1 (unfortunately still no Lv4 Solo Brutes from WotC), but the Lv4 elite with the same role had 136HP

Having worked through the calculations on p185 of the DMG, your Solo should have at least 204HP.

Well, the thing is, this isn't a Level 4 Solo Brute. It's really a Level 3 Solo Brute that I gave some extra powers and called a Level 4. (I've seen that happen at least once in the MM, so I figured that was fair play). Do the numbers look any better if it's a Level 3 Solo?

Brasswatchman
2008-12-31, 04:52 PM
I don't think you need to worry about it being too powerful by increasing it's stats by the solo calulations listed in the book. While it's attacks are strong (unsurprising because it's a Brute), it's slow and it's attack bonuses aren't too impressive.

Hmm. Okay. I guess I've been trying to take it a little easy since I'm planning to put this up against a Level 1 party without much in the way of equipment. But you're probably right - Level 1s should be able to take on a Level 5 Solo, anyway. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

Meek
2008-12-31, 05:06 PM
Well, the thing is, this isn't a Level 4 Solo Brute. It's really a Level 3 Solo Brute that I gave some extra powers and called a Level 4. (I've seen that happen at least once in the MM, so I figured that was fair play). Do the numbers look any better if it's a Level 3 Solo?

The level is what controls all the stats and is very important you have to call it what it is. Wizard's monsters play with the rules very fast and loose, but they can do that they're the designers. If you're not confident with the system, don't innovate do it like the formulas say.

Asmor's cruncher throws out these numbers for a level 3 solo brute with your ooze's ability scores:

Initiative: 0 Exp: 750
HP: 172; Bloodied: 86
AC: 15 Fortitude: 15 Reflex: 12 Will: 14
Increase 3 of the 4 defenses (including AC) by +2 each.
Attack bonus vs. AC: +6
Attack bonus vs. other defenses: +4
Damage Low Medium High
At-will 1d6+3 1d10+3 2d6+3
Limited 3d6+3 2d10+3 3d8+3

Action points: 2
Str: 13 (+2) Dex: 8 (+0) Wis: 12 (+2)
Con: 11 (+1) Int: 1 (-4) Cha: 1 (-4)

Level 4:

Initiative: 1 Exp: 875
HP: 204; Bloodied: 102
AC: 16 Fortitude: 15 Reflex: 13 Will: 15
Increase 3 of the 4 defenses (including AC) by +2 each.
Attack bonus vs. AC: +7
Attack bonus vs. other defenses: +5
Damage Low Medium High
At-will 1d6+4 1d10+4 2d8+4
Limited 3d6+4 3d8+4 3d10+4

Action points: 2
Str: 13 (+3) Dex: 8 (+1) Wis: 12 (+3)
Con: 11 (+2) Int: 1 (-3) Cha: 1 (-3)

LiteYear
2008-12-31, 05:07 PM
Oh, that might change things a bit (I was under the assumption this would be facing a 3rd or 4th level party). It's hard to say though because an ooze is a hit or miss monster; if it can engulf, low-level members are in tough to escape before they are reduced to 0 HP, but if the party can avoid it for the most part, the ooze can't do anything without burning an action point.

Mercenary Pen
2008-12-31, 05:49 PM
Well, the thing is, this isn't a Level 4 Solo Brute. It's really a Level 3 Solo Brute that I gave some extra powers and called a Level 4. (I've seen that happen at least once in the MM, so I figured that was fair play). Do the numbers look any better if it's a Level 3 Solo?

Well, the Young White Dragon (Lv3 Solo Brute) has 200 HP, so the HP definitely needs to be up there... though, now that I look closer, it has an 18 CON, so 200HP does fit the numbers.

I'm surprised there wasn't anything under Solo Monsters about adjusting HP according to monster role though. Unless I'm vastly mistaken, those same HP would apply to any other Lv4 Solo with the same CON score- and that seems a little odd to me. However, it's consistent, so that's where you should be unless you bump its CON just a little.

EDIT: Just an idea for an extra power you might give your ooze:

Ballistic Trajectory (move;recharge 6)
The ooze moves up to 8 squares, ignoring difficult terrain but cannot squeeze or change direction as part of this movement.


Basically, considering the ooze is a slow creature, I thought the party could easily evade it under normal circumstances. However, as a Brute, I thought it could make up for its slow speed (some of the time) by literally throwing itself forward by brute force...

Shadow_Elf
2008-12-31, 06:05 PM
You're forgetting to add half level to your ability score mods - its initiative should be +2 if its a level 4 Ooze. If you're going to make it level 3, then they're fine.
If it is a level 3, write it as a level 3. Some basics must go up with level - these are HP, defences, and the value of their 1/2 level. Attack bonuses can vary a little.
Make the aura do more damage. Its only aura 1, so I think 5 is fair.
It needs 2 Action Points if its a solo.
It can afford a few more powers, as I think someone said above.
I would increase its Resist Poison value too.

Zocelot
2008-12-31, 09:38 PM
But you're probably right - Level 1s should be able to take on a Level 5 Solo, anyway. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

If you put this as an ordinary encounter in the dungeon, there is about a 50% chance of a TPK. As a general rule of thumb, an encounter up to two levels higher has a good chance of a clean win, three levels higher has a fair chance of a single death, and four levels higher with a good chance of a TPK, and it's nearly guaranteed that a PC will die.

I dunno though, maybe I just play with really shoddy players.

Meek
2008-12-31, 10:43 PM
If you put this as an ordinary encounter in the dungeon, there is about a 50% chance of a TPK. As a general rule of thumb, an encounter up to two levels higher has a good chance of a clean win, three levels higher has a fair chance of a single death, and four levels higher with a good chance of a TPK, and it's nearly guaranteed that a PC will die.

I dunno though, maybe I just play with really shoddy players.

No, you're pretty much on the ball. The numbers would be against you in a Level 1 vs Level 5 fight no matter how experienced a player you are. Maybe at paragon and beyond the 5-level difference could be overcome with tactics, but you'd still have to use most of your powers to get through it, and somebody is quite likely to die.

Mercenary Pen
2009-01-01, 04:33 AM
It does have to be said though, that this particular Ooze could be engaged with very little risk in a run-and-snipe style engagement. It has no regeneration, and no abilities capable of hitting anything that isn't at least adjacent to it.

With enough time and favourable tactics, this thing could probably be soloed by a single PC with a decent ranged weapon, just by a combination of running/double-moving and attacking.