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TengYt
2008-12-31, 03:49 PM
Is it just me or does the DMGII...well...suck? Most of it is common sense tips you can find on the internet, some of the other stuff like the new magic items and magic locations just seem kind of bland, the teamwork benefits don't seem all that useful, etc...
Aside from some of the nice fluff, to me it doesn't seem like a very good sourcebook. It should have at least included a few new PrCs or Feats or SOMETHING.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-31, 03:55 PM
There are books upon books of feats and prestige classes. If those are what you wanted, why did you buy a book with none of either?

TengYt
2008-12-31, 03:56 PM
I did :P It just seems like out of all my collection, the DMGII just seems like by far the worst.

Inyssius Tor
2008-12-31, 04:18 PM
I disagree.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-31, 04:26 PM
It's useful for what it's useful for - a guide for DMs who need guiding. Not printing something because "people can get it free on the internet" seems like a line of reasoning that would pre-empt printing RPGs at all. When WotC print something, you can assume it is in line with their philosophy for D&D, and there's a certain guarantee of quality (Good or bad, depends on your view). It also organizes that material into a coherent whole - something you won't find online, usually.

arguskos
2008-12-31, 05:32 PM
Frankly, the DMG 2 has some advice at the beginning that ALL DM's, no matter how experienced they are, should read again sometimes. That section should have been at the start of DMG 1, but wasn't, for reasons that still make me scratch my head.

Worth $30? Maybe, depending on who you ask. I liked the book, thought it had some great stuff, but was mostly impressed by the depth of thought in the first section, talking about how to be a good DM at the table.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2008-12-31, 07:28 PM
I personally thought it was a decent book. Has some interesting things regarding the teamwork benefits; is Teamwork not what DnD is about? Also, the Companion Spirit has been awesome in my games. Some of the magic items are good. Mostly, it's there to enhance the DMG with more ideas, more thought put on creating and playing an actual campaign; instead of being a straight rules book. It is in the same vein as the PHBII; it's just expanding on pre-existing themes.

Worth 30 bucks... well, that was the cost of most DnD 3.5 books, so I guess so. I got mine on sale thru Amazon for like $5. Yeah, $5. The "New or Used" link is your friend. Bought new, and it was in perfect condition when I got it.

Dunkelhand
2008-12-31, 10:26 PM
I think the DMG2 is one of the better books. I like it a lot.

Lots of good tips and information and it covers also the actual mastering and not only the adventure preparation. IMO the 3e PHB2 an DMG2 are both worth getting.

Thurbane
2009-01-01, 02:37 AM
It should have at least included a few new PrCs or Feats or SOMETHING.
Yeah, because there just wasn't enough of those in virtually every other 3.5 book published. :smallconfused: Obviously you are the target audience that made Wizards assume they had to put new (and usually abusable) splat in every book they published to sell it. :smallfrown:

While I wouldn't say DMG II is in my top five 3.5 supplements, I think it's a solid book with some good advice for DMs. The Saltmarsh section is great, a fairly well fleshed out city for a DM, but still with enough gaps to insert his own touches. The Magic Events gave me a ton of ideas for adventures.

Zeta Kai
2009-01-01, 05:33 AM
Yeah, because there just wasn't enough of those in virtually every other 3.5 book published. :smallconfused: Obviously you are the target audience that made Wizards assume they had to put new (and usually abusable) splat in every book they published to sell it. :smallfrown:

While I wouldn't say DMG II is in my top five 3.5 supplements, I think it's a solid book with some good advice for DMs. The Saltmarsh section is great, a fairly well fleshed out city for a DM, but still with enough gaps to insert his own touches. The Magic Events gave me a ton of ideas for adventures.

QFT. I agree with every single word. DMG2 has an undeserved rep as a "Bad Book", next to Complete Champion, MM2, Tome of Magic, & Complete Psionic.

Gralamin
2009-01-01, 05:46 AM
Yeah, because there just wasn't enough of those in virtually every other 3.5 book published. :smallconfused: Obviously you are the target audience that made Wizards assume they had to put new (and usually abusable) splat in every book they published to sell it. :smallfrown:
Its well known that its Core thats the most broken. Supplements are only broken if you let people cherry pick from all of them.


While I wouldn't say DMG II is in my top five 3.5 supplements, I think it's a solid book with some good advice for DMs. The Saltmarsh section is great, a fairly well fleshed out city for a DM, but still with enough gaps to insert his own touches. The Magic Events gave me a ton of ideas for adventures.
Agree completely here.


QFT. I agree with every single word. DMG2 has an undeserved rep as a "Bad Book", next to Complete Champion, MM2, Tome of Magic, & Complete Psionic.
I know people dislike Complete Champion (Which is rather cheesy for a splat, but still a pretty good book), as well as MM2 (Which has some awesome creatures, Spellweavers and Nimblewrights anyone), but* I did not know that Tome of Magic had "Bad Book" rep. To me it's always been there for Binders, and interesting alternative magic approaches (You know, exactly what they said it was for).

*Complete Psionic kept from the list as a nod to those who believe the book was never printed. But honestly, other then the Divine Mind and the random elemental things, it was a pretty decent book.

Kurald Galain
2009-01-01, 11:19 AM
Is it just me or does the DMGII...well...suck?

No, it's not just you.

Incidentally, the DMG1 isn't so great either, except that it contains the magical items. And since those were moved to the PHB in 4E, the 4E DMG is completely useless to any experienced DM.

Inyssius Tor
2009-01-01, 11:46 AM
No, it's not just you.

Incidentally, the DMG1 isn't so great either, except that it contains the magical items. And since those were moved to the PHB in 4E, the 4E DMG is completely useless to any experienced DM.

Well, I'm not an experienced DM, so I...

...okay, I thought there were about ten pages in the 4E DMG that might merit rereading later on.

RebelRogue
2009-01-01, 02:37 PM
the 4E DMG is completely useless to any experienced DM.
I consider myself an experienced DM, and I think there was a lot of useful stuff in the new DMG. I actually think it's one of the better DMGs around (for experienced as well as new DMs). It is perhaps not surprising that I like the DMG2 as well...

Thurbane
2009-01-01, 05:25 PM
Its well known that its Core thats the most broken. Supplements are only broken if you let people cherry pick from all of them.
Well, there's truth in that, yes.

But even if the core is broken, adding new (and often poorly thought out) feats, PrCs etc. in so many books just pries open Pandora's Box that little bit further. And by poorly thought out, I don't necessarily mean items that are overpowered by themselves, but those who any powergamer or munchkin can work into a game breaking combo with existing items within 30 seconds of reading it.

In our group, we usually play core-only, or core + 1-2 other books, to avoid too much cherry picking. Some people I've told this to find this horribly restrictive, but in our group it works fine, and everyone still has fun. :smallwink:

The Neoclassic
2009-01-03, 05:47 PM
Yeah, because there just wasn't enough of those in virtually every other 3.5 book published. :smallconfused: Obviously you are the target audience that made Wizards assume they had to put new (and usually abusable) splat in every book they published to sell it. :smallfrown:


I entirely agree. I really don't care about new Prestige Classes. Why? They are very specific and I homebrew. I'd rather design my own to fit my setting than try to shoehorn in ones that WotC makes. I was delighted to instead get a book that was good for world-building and such.

So, I think the book doesn't suck, it was just a poor purchase for you because it's not what you are looking for. It'd be like me insulting the PHII (or all these other books people are citing) because I think new classes are boring. ;)

The Neoclassic
2009-01-03, 05:50 PM
In our group, we usually play core-only, or core + 1-2 other books, to avoid too much cherry picking. Some people I've told this to find this horribly restrictive, but in our group it works fine, and everyone still has fun. :smallwink:

Yup, this is exactly what I do. And if one's group of players is cool with this, it works very well. Other groups are very into cherry-picking optimization from all possible splatbooks, and that's great for them. All a matter of personal and group preference!

(Sorry to double-post, by the way)