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K2
2009-01-02, 12:26 AM
I hate Charlie, really him and his machine god crap just makes me angry. Normally if I post I try to make a point, but now I am just ranting. I really hate Charlie. His death better be painful and ironic and upcoming.

I really don't have anything else to say, just give me a shout out if you also hate(or simply "strongly dislike") Charlie.

Aquillion
2009-01-02, 01:32 AM
Why? He flat-out warned Parson that he might actually help Ansom. And it's not like Wanda hasn't killed one of his units before, someone he knew by name and expressed personal affection for.

Why is his attacking Wanda so much worse than Wanda attacking Jaclyn?

Godskook
2009-01-02, 02:02 AM
Because Charlie's been pulling moves that in real-life, would have him called a jackass. Personally, I believe that he is being built up as a primary villain of a latter plot. However, most seem to think that his current behavior is 'god-mode', but it isn't. I'm beginning to hate him too, but not because I think he's powerful. His behavior so far doesn't give me that impression. I get the impression that he's using a fairly-balanced force in an *******y conservative way. He has, what?, 18 Archons above GK. I expect that when Stanley tears through, Charlie won't use mild terms like 'bloody nose' to describe it. If the RCC can't get through the wall this turn, Parson has tons of powerful things he can mount onto dwagons and attack them with(assuming Stanley cooperates).

Altima
2009-01-02, 05:31 AM
For one, Charlie is denying Parson from giving Ansom his comeuppance. Many, if not most, of the readers are looking forward to that.

Secondly, Charlie is in the same boat as Stanley--a non-royal (with an artifact) ruler. And from what it looks like, that seems to be the 'real' reason of the war with Gobwin's Knob. Now that Stanley actually has a competant tactician (Parson), Charlie should be trying to get in good with Stanley, who hates him.

On the other hand, Charlie could possibly scoop up two more Arkentools if everything works out. Which will make him an even bigger target.

At any rate, Charlie's appearance and actions within the story are a bit too convenient. Heck, just look at the Archons--they can apparently fly, perform thinkamancy, are incredibly hardy, and can go toe to toe with dwagons. We've seen (many) dwagons torn apart, but we've only seen ONE Archon die--and that was by firing off most of GK's anti-air!

I dunno. It doesn't bother me that much because smug bastards like Charlie usually get hit with a karma-guided missile. I'm going to laugh my ass off if Stanley tears those archons apart without breaking a sweat.

SmallFurryMamml
2009-01-02, 05:44 AM
He has, what?, 18 Archons above GK.

18? He has at least 30, there's a couple of frames (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0117.html) when they first arrive where you can see all of them, although the quality makes it difficult to tell some of them apart.

I don't know how the archons and the dragons match up, but we only know of four that survived the ambush at the choke point.

ObadiahtheSlim
2009-01-02, 08:58 AM
Charlie is being a bastard. He isn't doing anything that he hasn't already told everyone he is going to do. He came to Gobwin Knob to lend assistance as needed. He told Parson that and he is doing that. Now Ansom is going to his comeupance. He is going to get bent over and take it from behind from Charlie because of the "amended" agreement. My guess is the Arkenpliers + Parson and whatever magic items Parson holds.

Aquillion
2009-01-02, 09:01 AM
I don't know how the archons and the dragons match up, but we only know of four that survived the ambush at the choke point.Don't forget Jack, though. He's worth an entire flight of dwagons on his own, if he could convince either Charlie or Ansom that they've been betrayed by the other one. Given how Charlie has been treating Ansom lately, it probably wouldn't take much...


Secondly, Charlie is in the same boat as Stanley--a non-royal (with an artifact) ruler. And from what it looks like, that seems to be the 'real' reason of the war with Gobwin's Knob. Now that Stanley actually has a competant tactician (Parson), Charlie should be trying to get in good with Stanley, who hates him.To be fair, we have no reason to think that the differences between Charlie and Stanley are really resolvable. The only thing that Charlie could possibly do to get on Stanley's good side would be to give him the Arkendish (and then possibly go off and die quietly somewhere.) Sure, Charlie might be in danger from Ansom in the future -- but he knows he's in danger from Stanley. Ansom's possible personal issues with non-royals pale in comparison to Stanley's openly-stated goal of taking every Arkentool by force.

Truthfully, it's more odd that Charlie hasn't been more openly against Stanley, rather than less. He might have a chance of getting in good with Ansom -- Ansom's prejudices are at least potentially resolvable. Given Stanley's beliefs and worldview, though, Charlie has no reasonable way of avoiding conflict with him short of either giving up the Arkendish or killing Stanley first. Even giving up the Arkendish might not work -- the simple existence of someone else who has successfully attuned to an Arkentool is a direct insult to the entire basis of Stanley's worldview, much more than Ansom's views about royals.

(Not that I'm saying that Charlie isn't necessarily just out to grab every Arkentool himself -- but either way, suggesting that he try to cozy up to Stanley just doesn't make sense. Stanley almost certainly wants to kill him for attuning to the Arkendish; nothing Charlie can say will change that.)

DigoDragon
2009-01-02, 09:22 AM
Charlie basically acts like this is just a turn-based strategy game and he's playing to win. :smallsmile:

Tashi
2009-01-02, 01:39 PM
Because Charlie's been pulling moves that in real-life, would have him called a jackass. Personally, I believe that he is being built up as a primary villain of a latter plot.
To be honest I donīt believe that Charlie was designed as that uber-ultra-superpower that he is now.
I feel he was more like a secondary character/gag and turned out the way he is now due to reaction of fans of the Cameron Diaz movie in this forum or whatever.
Somehow the comic lost me anyway.
"GK has a few dwagons, but to be honest GK has no chance at all."
"Look the dwagons are croaked. Now GK is done for."
"Look Wanda is down. Now GK is even more done for."
Whatever :smallconfused:

Godskook
2009-01-02, 03:12 PM
We've seen (many) dwagons torn apart, but we've only seen ONE Archon die--and that was by firing off most of GK's anti-air!

I contend that this disparity is due to Charlie's conservative use of his Archons, rather than proof that they are supposedly in the same class as Dwagons. Here's what we've seen:

Archons:
1.Jaclyn & friends, fighting the wounded dwagons. They're blasting dwagons that are on their last leg. About as BA as me going on a shooting spree in an intensive care ward. Yeah, that pathetic, and they *STILL* almost lose Jillian before Ansom shows up. Finally, as far as attack power demonstrated by Archons in this battle, they're not hitting full-health Dwagons, they're hitting no-health Dwagons. A well-placed sneeze could propably kill those Dwagons.

2.Jaclyn v. Wanda. Wanda is able to kill at least 10-15 good units(gwiffons, unipegataurs, archons), all while pulling enough control to *MISS* Jillian with an air-filling fireball.

3.Airspace control. Ooooh, 30 Archons manage to suckerpunch 6 uncroaked, without producing enough power to kill the one caster in range. Hmm....sound impotent to me.

Dwagons:
1.Jillian v. ~5 Dwagons. Jillian kills a blue, but this is showing us Jillian's fighting style: blow her wad on her first target, and hope to the Titans that someone else has her back. Here, no one does, and she goes down without a further fight.

2.Dwagons destroy 40% of all siege units in Ansom's force. 40%. I'm not sure how much that is, but is probably a signifacantly high number. He does this without losing a dwagon, yet they're almost all at they're last hitpoint.

3.Dwagons v. Jillian & Archons. The Archons take out one wounded Dwagon apiece, and Jillian takes out a warlord. Then things go horribly wrong. GK only lost that battle because Ansom and Vinnie show up, who manage to take most of the kills, by the way. Despite being long-range fighters, the Archons can't keep up with Vinny.

4.Chokepoint. I'll treat this in two groups, Stanley's red, and the ones that die.

4a.Stanley's red. He is apparently unhit, except maybe a few Orly and Bat attacks. Either he or his illusion version takes out *TWO* gwiffons, a beast sometimes on par with dragons in other games. Hell, his illusion holds up to the same amount of abuse as Jillian used against the Blue dwagon at the beginning of the story.

4b.Here, we only know half the score. We know that ~25 Dwagons died, but we don't know how much TV lost. However, I will say that TV fight style seems particularly well suited to fighting Dwagons. Disposable units take the Dwagons attention while warlords do the actual killing. Note that this is Jillian's Dwagon-killing style, but with cheaper and more plentiful cannon fodder. We'll see.

Aquillion
2009-01-02, 06:05 PM
4b.Here, we only know half the score. We know that ~25 Dwagons died, but we don't know how much TV lost. However, I will say that TV fight style seems particularly well suited to fighting Dwagons. Disposable units take the Dwagons attention while warlords do the actual killing. Note that this is Jillian's Dwagon-killing style, but with cheaper and more plentiful cannon fodder. We'll see.Also, for that one Stanley bailed partway through, so the ambushers had the bonuses and leadership of a very high-level warlord, while the dwagons fought stupidly with no bonus at all.

Altima
2009-01-03, 01:39 AM
It's true that the only time we've seen unhurt dwagons getting killed were during the Fortress Formation battle--and then, it was only three dwagons, which killed at least a couple stacks of elves, and took Ansom, Vinny, the Woodsy Elf Warlord, and tons of gumps, among other stuff, to actually punch through.

Dwagons seem to be at the top of the food chain, but they are in no way invincible--mounted warlords can apparently take them on.


Truthfully, it's more odd that Charlie hasn't been more openly against Stanley, rather than less. He might have a chance of getting in good with Ansom -- Ansom's prejudices are at least potentially resolvable. Given Stanley's beliefs and worldview, though, Charlie has no reasonable way of avoiding conflict with him short of either giving up the Arkendish or killing Stanley first. Even giving up the Arkendish might not work -- the simple existence of someone else who has successfully attuned to an Arkentool is a direct insult to the entire basis of Stanley's worldview, much more than Ansom's views about royals.

Except that Stanley is an actual ruler, while Ansom (albeit heir and Chief Warlord) is not. It doesn't matter how much Ansom likes the person, if King Slate says to go crush Charlie, Ansom will have to.

What's really going to be funny is when Charlie is introduced as a girl.

Aquillion
2009-01-03, 04:40 AM
Except that Stanley is an actual ruler, while Ansom (albeit heir and Chief Warlord) is not. It doesn't matter how much Ansom likes the person, if King Slate says to go crush Charlie, Ansom will have to.
Vinny's conversation with Ansom (and Ansom's reaction) strongly suggests that he feels that Jetstone's involvement the war on Stanley, at least, is almost entirely at Ansom's instigation, and that this is not a secret. Ansom made no attempt to deflect Vinny's questions by saying it was Slately's plan; just the opposite, he specifically asked whether it couldn't be that "I" simply want to end a great evil. He's the one who built the coalition, too, and is clearly acting as its leader. The war on Stanley is very much Ansom's baby.

Of course, if it wasn't, that would make it even more crazy for Charlie to be more worried about Ansom than Stanley. We've seen no indications that Slately shares Ansom's views -- so why would Charlie care more about a random heir who is mildly prejudiced against him, than about the raving Napoleon-complex madman who has openly declared that he's going to take every Arkentool by force? Why would Charlie waste time getting in good with someone who's ultimate goal is, inescapably, going to involve killing or ruining him? Ansom and Jetstone might betray Charlie eventually, but Stanley would definitely betray him at the first chance.

Charlie's entire business is, as far as we can tell, built around the Arkendish. That makes Stanley, whose sole reason for existence is to take that dish away, the one person we've seen so far who Charlie can never make peace with. Short-term plans with Parson to his advantage, sure, even if that delays killing Stanley for a few more turns; but unless Charlie is a complete idiot, every sane plan he makes has to involve a stabbing dagger in Stanley's face at some point, simply as a preemptive measure.

The Minx
2009-01-04, 05:15 AM
To be honest I donīt believe that Charlie was designed as that uber-ultra-superpower that he is now.
I feel he was more like a secondary character/gag and turned out the way he is now due to reaction of fans of the Cameron Diaz movie in this forum or whatever.
Somehow the comic lost me anyway.
"GK has a few dwagons, but to be honest GK has no chance at all."
"Look the dwagons are croaked. Now GK is done for."
"Look Wanda is down. Now GK is even more done for."
Whatever :smallconfused:

Read my post in the Parson's Impotence (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101122) thread.