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Ethrael
2009-01-04, 10:48 AM
My next campaign might be involving some very, very, very old people, and I was wondering about the theme of immortality in D&D 3.5e.

Are there specific rules? Is it simply a researchable spell? Are there magic items? Or is it simply up to me to determine how and/or why these characters are immortal?

Thanks very much in advance for all your help. :smallbiggrin:

toddex
2009-01-04, 10:51 AM
Spell wise I have limited knowledge but for non cheese im pretty sure lich transformation is the only way to go for immortality.

metagaia
2009-01-04, 10:53 AM
Does reincarnate work? You appear in a young adult body after all, so you can always just kill yourself when you reach the 'venerable' catagory provided you have someone to resurrect you.

Kesnit
2009-01-04, 10:54 AM
You could make it an Epic spell, or one that requires divine ranks to cast. Is it supposed to be a curse, because you could set it up as "this group of people really pissed off the gods and were cursed to walk the earth until XYZ event occurs."

Satyr
2009-01-04, 10:55 AM
If you want immortality, there is nothing better than the Dorian Grey way.

Myou
2009-01-04, 11:06 AM
There's an epic feat that increases your lifespan.

Extended Life Span: Add one-half the maximum result of the character’s race’s maximum age modifier to the character’s normal middle age, old, and venerable age categories. Calculate the character’s maximum age using the new venerable number. This feat can’t lower the character’s current age category.

A character can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Ethrael
2009-01-04, 11:18 AM
So I take it it's mostly up to creative ways of the DM to work something out. Thank you all very much, especially the epic feat and the curse idea. I think I've got a good idea of what I'm going to do...

hamishspence
2009-01-04, 11:26 AM
Dragon mag 354 had Ancient PCs article, covering the really old and the immortal.

True immortality is harder to get than merely not aging, without being a construct or undead- most notable PRC to be truly immortal is the Cloud Anchorite in Frostburn

Myou
2009-01-04, 11:32 AM
So I take it it's mostly up to creative ways of the DM to work something out. Thank you all very much, especially the epic feat and the curse idea. I think I've got a good idea of what I'm going to do...

Happy to help.

Flickerdart
2009-01-04, 11:34 AM
The Elan base race is immortal. There's even fluff that says they're created from existing adventurers, but lose all class levels when they do so. It's a reasonable plan.

Noneoyabizzness
2009-01-04, 11:40 AM
epic feat, epic magic, undeath (lichdom, vampirism, or necropolitan. none fear death by age.)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080428 for 3.5 epicdestines.

Tequila Sunrise
2009-01-04, 11:53 AM
Please, PLEASE don't give your NPCs Extended Life Span. It's the ultimate in 3e's tax form-like stat minutiae BS. If you want your NPCs to be immortal, then they are. You don't need to justify it with a rule...even less than a DM ever needs to justify anything with a rule. There's no mechanical advantage to immortality, so just be creative and justify it with whatever fluff you want.

TS

hamishspence
2009-01-04, 12:02 PM
Interestingly their Immortality is not reflected in the initial version of XPH- they have normal aging penalties and an upper limit of 2000 years (1000 = 10 d%) This was, I think, errataed later though.

kamikasei
2009-01-04, 12:40 PM
Druids and Monks have a timeless body class feature that says from that point, aging bonuses (to mental stats) continue to accrue, but no physical penalties are gained beyond what the character already has; in effect, they become ageless, though they still die when their time is up. Eldritch Disciples from Complete Mage get the same feature without the line about dying when maximum age is reached - so they're forever young (or middle-aged, or...). The Elan race have no maximum age, so they gain bonuses and penalties as normal but once they're venerable they can remain so forever.

That's the "biological immortality" end of it - you can live forever without dying of old age. Since it's available as a class feature, it wouldn't be too crazy to just make it a feat requiring some ritual players don't have access to (if you want it to be unavailable to them, of course. Otherwise, it doesn't even have to be a feat).

Immortality as in immunity to death is a different kettle of fish.

Tengu_temp
2009-01-04, 12:53 PM
Immortality as in immunity to death is a different kettle of fish.

Unless you're playing 4e, of course, where one of the epic destinies is the Immortal Warrior, who's exactly what it says on the tin - his defining feature is that he can't die, ever. No, no magic is involved, he is simply that badass.

Starscream
2009-01-04, 01:00 PM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080428 for 3.5 epicdestines.

I had no idea those existed. They're pretty sweet, and next time I play or DM an epic campaign I'm definitely using them. Thanks!

Noneoyabizzness
2009-01-04, 01:05 PM
I had no idea those existed. They're pretty sweet, and next time I play or DM an epic campaign I'm definitely using them. Thanks!

no prob was just checking wotc site to try and find if any reasonable epic spell for immortality or longlivedness had been put up for 3.5 found that and updated some of my other article downloads.

Jack_Simth
2009-01-04, 01:08 PM
Spell wise I have limited knowledge but for non cheese im pretty sure lich transformation is the only way to go for immortality.
A ghost with 15+ Hit Dice gets it too - about the only way to kill him for good is an obscure PrC (Hunter of the Dead), or an antimagic field (it's a Su ability that restores a ghost).

There's no mechanical advantage to immortality, so just be creative and justify it with whatever fluff you want.
Mild correction: There's no mechanical advantage to agelessness (unless you've got a bunch of 3.0 mechanics running around that age you, anyway), but that's different from true immortality. Someone who gets a free True Resurrection X or XdY days after they're killed has a notable mechanical advantage (doesn't need to pay the 25k in material components for True Resurrection, doesn't need to pay the level loss for Resurrection, Raise Dead, Reincarnate, or Clone).

chiasaur11
2009-01-04, 02:24 PM
Wouldn't Warforged be an option for some immortally guys?

Just a thought.

martyboy74
2009-01-04, 02:31 PM
Immortality as in immunity to death is a different kettle of fish.

Actually, there's an 8th level cleric spell in the SpC that grants immunity to death (Veil of Undeath). Really.

\/\/ I know, but it's more fun this way. Besides, it's supposed (read: use DMM) to have a relatively short duration.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-01-04, 03:30 PM
If you want immortality, there is nothing better than the Dorian Grey way.

The picture can be found in ... Champions of Ruin, I think? An artifact.

hamishspence
2009-01-04, 03:42 PM
Given the spell is citied as granting you Undead Immunities, the usual interpretation of that use of "death" is "death effects" As in, Finger of Death spells and spell like abilities. You still die from being chopped up or blasted with the right kind of magic.

Collin152
2009-01-04, 04:22 PM
The picture can be found in ... Champions of Ruin, I think? An artifact.

Wait, really?
I was planning on making a Prestige Class like that one of these days... You have some work of art created in your likeness, and as you progress in the class, it takes on certain things for you...

FMArthur
2009-01-04, 04:25 PM
Mechanus will rape you if you try.

SilentNight
2009-01-04, 04:34 PM
There's a spell in the aforementioned Dragon 354. 9th level, it binds a creature's soul to a piece of nonmagical jewelry of at least 5,000gp value. As long as it is worn the creature does not age.

Tequila Sunrise
2009-01-04, 04:44 PM
Mild correction: There's no mechanical advantage to agelessness (unless you've got a bunch of 3.0 mechanics running around that age you, anyway), but that's different from true immortality. Someone who gets a free True Resurrection X or XdY days after they're killed has a notable mechanical advantage (doesn't need to pay the 25k in material components for True Resurrection, doesn't need to pay the level loss for Resurrection, Raise Dead, Reincarnate, or Clone).
Yes, yes, of course unkillability is a mechanical advantage but generally when someone mentions "immortality" that's not what they mean. The first line of the OP mentions "really old NPCs" and nothing about unkillable NPCs, so I think it's safe to assume that we are not discussing unkillability here. If I'm wrong, I hope Ethrael will correct me.

TS

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-01-04, 04:57 PM
The 12th hour of the 12th day of the 12th month get a 12th level victim and cast Steal Life on them. Drain their stats to 0. Assuming stats of 11, you get 66 weeks younger.

Repeat the process once per year and you will never age. You'll also grow younger if you're already old.

Kobold-Bard
2009-01-04, 05:05 PM
1. In a 3.0 book that I can't find anymore there was a spell called Immortality. 9th level Sor/Wiz and Cleric. It burned 5000xp and had a 10,000gp diamond as a material component. Essentially the Timeless body class feature but no maximum age, so no death.

2. Fluff up an Epic Spell.

3. Go undead.

4. Get the players to worship each other devoutly, thus making each one a God of Divine Rank 0. No power to grant spells, no need for sustenance via mortal worship, but Deific immortality and a nice story aspect. (This one is not so good for clerics, Paladins etc.)

Just some options.

SurlySeraph
2009-01-04, 06:33 PM
Mechanus will rape you if you try.

Eh, Maruts aren´t so tough.

Prometheus
2009-01-04, 07:08 PM
4. Get the players to worship each other devoutly, thus making each one a God of Divine Rank 0. No power to grant spells, no need for sustenance via mortal worship, but Deific immortality and a nice story aspect. (This one is not so good for clerics, Paladins etc.)
Yeah, but then you have to get the Book of Erotic Fantasy, and its awkward because you are all RL friends, and you're pretending...

Ethrael
2009-01-04, 07:39 PM
Some other great ideas I see here: the jewelery in which you store your life seems interesting and would fix a lot of plot holes, but the spell, even though it's 3.0, sounds interesting and like something I could homebrew.

Again, thanks very much to everyone for all the suggestions, they be helping a lot. :smallbiggrin:

Greg
2009-01-04, 07:42 PM
Is it possible to create an item that automatically casts reincarnate on someone after they die? Or to use contingency/craft contingent spell in a similar fashion?

martyboy74
2009-01-04, 07:48 PM
If you're going to do that, Revivify is the way to go. Here's the psionic version (note that the magical version has a 5K diamond instead of an xp cost): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRevivify.htm

Flickerdart
2009-01-04, 08:12 PM
If you're going to do that, Revivify is the way to go. Here's the psionic version (note that the magical version has a 5K diamond instead of an xp cost): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRevivify.htm
Raise Dead (and hence Revivify) can't cure death from old age.

If a person is killed and either of those spells bring him back, he's at -1 or 1 HP...whatever offed him can do so again. Couple it with a Teleport or Plane Shift to the home base.

Starscream
2009-01-04, 08:29 PM
How about a sort of Time Lord regeneration thing wherein you automatically get Reincarnate when you die? That one creates a young body, so you'd de-age in the process. You could still have them lose a level to keep it fair, but unless they die x times in a row without leveling up, they are essentially immortal. That and the random choice of bodies would probably keep them from abusing it too much, and simply running into danger.

You could even have it randomize their alignment or mental stats to reflect the whole "personality change" aspect, but that could severely inhibit some classes.

Deimos_
2009-01-04, 08:51 PM
There has to be a Core way to grant immortality without meddling with necromancy and lichdom... I mean, there is Halaster, and even Elminster, who are both pretty much immortal on FR. And they both have character sheets. Maybe Wish?

Flickerdart
2009-01-04, 08:56 PM
Psionic Genesis is Core, and I'm pretty sure you can create a demi-plane with slowed-down time. Say...one second is a year in the Prime Material. You go in for a nice 8 hours of sleep and emerge half a millennium later.

Harperfan7
2009-01-04, 09:26 PM
Elminster is a Chosen, which is a template.

I made a race for my homebrew campaign that is immortal. They were an extrememly powerful arcane civilization several millenia ago, but they were very arrogant, godless, and soul blind. No one knows which, but they either traded their entire races souls for immortality, or they became immortal through magic and the gods took their souls. Either way, they receive no afterlife, cannot use divine magic and cannot benefit from divine magic, but they stop aging past maturity. They never gain old age ability increases, and can't create more of their kind, but the ones that still exist tend to have very high levels in whatever class, usually an arcane one.

Also, the magic they cast is resistant to divine magic, so if they deal x amount of damage to an opponent, it is either twice as hard to heal or only half can be healed (with divine magic). Any lasting spell effect is treated as having spell resistance when dispelling. To deal with this, they became damn good at the heal skill, which is always a class skill for them.

Sebastian
2009-01-05, 10:26 AM
In the "Complete" books there are a number of Prestige classes that at 10th level change your type to a different kind (construct, outsiders, undead, etc) many if not all of this types are immune to aging that for all effect is not unlike immortality. For example, green star adept* become a construct, alienists* become outsiders, etc.

*both from Complete Arcane

lisiecki
2009-01-05, 10:32 AM
My next campaign might be involving some very, very, very old people, and I was wondering about the theme of immortality in D&D 3.5e.

Why would you want to run a game about immortals?
Theres no time for them, theres no place for for them
Who wants to live forever....?

On a more serious note, I cant think of many real rules for being ALIVE forever on the other hand there are plenty of ways to be dead and exist forever.

Immortal PC's seem to have jumped from AD&D to 4th Ed bypassing 3x

ashmanonar
2009-01-05, 10:33 AM
Wait, really?
I was planning on making a Prestige Class like that one of these days... You have some work of art created in your likeness, and as you progress in the class, it takes on certain things for you...

So Dorian Gray?

Tokiko Mima
2009-01-05, 12:19 PM
My next campaign might be involving some very, very, very old people, and I was wondering about the theme of immortality in D&D 3.5e.

Are there specific rules? Is it simply a researchable spell? Are there magic items? Or is it simply up to me to determine how and/or why these characters are immortal?

Thanks very much in advance for all your help. :smallbiggrin:

I don't think there's a spell that grants out right grants immortality, but there's one that can extend your life by lowering your physical age and can be reused infinitely.

Using Steal Life from the Book of Vile Darkness lowers your physical age by a week for every point drained during a full moon. Normally, this would be a waste because you can't drain that many points before you kill someone with the spell, and you can't change targets without recasting the spell. However if you have someone nearby with a wand of Restoration you can obtain maximum benefit from the spell and shed a hundred years or more in a single night by restoring ability points to the victim as they are lost. Of course, I love the irony of using an evil spell in a non evil manner and converting charges from a wand into a fountain of youth.

Talya
2009-01-05, 01:15 PM
Using Steal Life from the Book of Vile Darkness lowers your physical age by a week for every point drained during a full moon. Normally, this would be a waste because you can't drain that many points before you kill someone with the spell.


No, normally when using vile spells you're a villain who has prepared thirteen instances of said spell, and you gleefully drain 13 virgins to death on every full moon to ensure your continued youth.

Blackfang108
2009-01-05, 01:39 PM
No, normally when using vile spells you're a villain who has prepared thirteen instances of said spell, and you gleefully drain 13 virgins to death on every full moon to ensure your continued youth.

Yes, THAT'S what he's using the virgins for...

Tokiko Mima
2009-01-05, 01:40 PM
No, normally when using vile spells you're a villain who has prepared thirteen instances of said spell, and you gleefully drain 13 virgins to death on every full moon to ensure your continued youth.

If you use Steal Life that way, you'll still get less results than if you keep the target/victim alive. Each commoner has ~60 ability points, but they die when their Constitution score hits 0. So that means you only get one year for every spell cast, versus the alternative of a hundred years plus for one spell. True, if you're a sadist you may enjoy fruitlessly burning through spells and virgins to obtain a few extra years. However, for the results-oriented immortal you need to keep your victim alive to optimize the benefit versus the costs. :smallwink:

XenoGeno
2009-01-05, 07:58 PM
Well, you could probably argue that you can use Polymorph Any Object to make yourself younger again. You'd lose the Int bonus, but you'd keep the Cha and Wis bonuses, while shedding all the penalties.

Ethrael
2009-01-05, 08:07 PM
I don't think there's a spell that grants out right grants immortality, but there's one that can extend your life by lowering your physical age and can be reused infinitely.

Using Steal Life from the Book of Vile Darkness lowers your physical age by a week for every point drained during a full moon. Normally, this would be a waste because you can't drain that many points before you kill someone with the spell, and you can't change targets without recasting the spell. However if you have someone nearby with a wand of Restoration you can obtain maximum benefit from the spell and shed a hundred years or more in a single night by restoring ability points to the victim as they are lost. Of course, I love the irony of using an evil spell in a non evil manner and converting charges from a wand into a fountain of youth.

I take it this is the sort of "Old witch who drains fair young maidens from the nearby village to restore her youth and beauty" idea? There is actually a witch in my campaign, but toootally different kind, more of the village healer/herbalist kind. :smallsmile:

Although the draining of the virgins does sound like something I could use for one of the other guys... *wanders off into mental walkabout*

_Zoot_
2009-01-06, 06:42 AM
Man, I'm allways looking for ways to become immortal, i even made a treade about it!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84920

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

herceg
2011-02-16, 08:54 AM
Could "clone" work if you'd clone yourself at age of 20, preserved the clone for 60 years, then died of old age?
(the text says "If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.", but I think this refers to the case when the original is already dead when someone's casting cloning)

Mastikator
2011-02-16, 09:04 AM
In Dragon Age, an antagonist named Flemeth used dark magic to attain immortality. What she'd do is have a daughter and when her daughter was old enough she'd swap bodys. In D&D there's a psionic power for that called "True Mind Switch". It costs a bit of exp, but nothing a high level telepath can't gain in a lifetime (which he'll have plenty off).

Also, there are certain races that are immortal, warforged, elan. Not to mention undeath, if that counts.

Coidzor
2011-02-16, 09:08 AM
There's a handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0)for that.