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peteyfrogboy
2004-07-16, 11:52 AM
Disciples of Petey the Frog Boy

The door opened, and the wizard looked in at his laboratory in horror. Shattered glassware and smoldering chunks of wood were strewn everywhere, and uncaged bats and birds fluttered around the room. In the middle of the room sat a cowering young boy.

"Corwin!" roared the mage. "What have you done?"

The apprentice cringed and whimpered. "I'm sorry, Master. It was an accident."

"Incompetent fool! Get out of my sight." The wizard raised his staff, chanting arcane syllables. He pointed his finger at the apprentice, who was trying to run past him through the open door. The boy was not fast enough, though, and he was struck by a beam of shimmering purple energy. In the blink of an eye, he had been transformed into a small white mouse.

Corwin didn't stop running until he reached the street outside. The towers of other wizards soared high above him, looking even taller now than they had before. He squeaked miserably. Not only had he failed his Master, but now he was doomed to spend the rest of his life as a wretched little rodent.

As he huddled against the foundation of the tower, Corwin heard a strange craoking sound nearby; it sounded almost like a magical incantation. He turned toward the sound, only to see a fat green toad hopping toward him.

"Do not despair," croaked the toad. "All is not yet lost."


Once upon a time, there was a wizard's apprentice named Peter. In a fit of pique, the wizard turned him into a frog. Normally, this would be the end of an apprentice wizard's career, and his life would often be over not much later. Peter, however, possessed a keen mind for all things arcane. He managed to find a way to survive and, eventually, to prosper in his new body. He lived in a vast city with a large number of wizards' towers, and he began to seek out others who had suffered a similar fate. He taught the lessons he had learned to each of them, and instructed them to pass on the knowledge to others in need.

Peter's Disciples have no formal organization, and Peter himself does not deny his teachings to anyone. Some of his students have used their new powers to take revenge on their masters, though the majority do not. In fact, once they learn the power of speech in their animal form, most Disciples use it to petition another wizard to return them to their own bodies and count themselves lucky. Some, however, embrace their new bodies, becoming powerful wizards in their own right.

Requirements:
* Must be able to prepare and cast arcane spells of at least level 1, but not more than level 2.
* Must have been permanently magically transformed into an animal of Tiny size or smaller.
* Must have received teaching from another Disciple.
* Knowledge (arcana): 5 ranks
* Spellcraft: 5 ranks

Special Note: If the Disciple is permanently changed to another form (that is not also a Tiny animal), he will be unable to advance further in this class.

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills:
The Disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier

{table]


Level

BAB

Fort

Ref

Will
Special
Spells per Day



1

+0

+2

+2

+0
Beast's Speech, Thick Skin I, Great Leap/Ride the Wind
-



2

+1

+3

+3

+0
Evasion, Apprentice's Memory, Animal Caster, Eschew Materials
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class



3

+1

+3

+3

+1
Strike Back, Beast's Teeth I
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class



4

+2

+4

+4

+1
Memory of Man, Thick Skin II
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class



5

+2

+4

+4

+2
Beast's Strength, Fly on the Wall/Fearsome Swoop
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class



6

+3

+5

+5

+2
Improved Evasion, Beast's Teeth II
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class



7

+3

+5

+5

+3
Wiggle Free, Thick Skin III
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class



8

+4

+6

+6

+3
Mind Over Matter, Journeyman's Defense
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class



9

+4

+6

+6

+4
Beast's Teeth III, Under A Rock
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class



10

+5

+7

+7

+4
True Form, Thick Skin IV
+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

[/table]

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Disciples gain no bonus weapon or armor proficiencies, though they are able to take feats that deal with natural weapons (Multiattack, Flyby Attack, etc.) as applicable.

Beast's Speech (Su): This is the first thing a Disciple learns. He is able to speak any language he knows in spite of the limitations of his animal body. In addition, he is able to speak with animals of his own type, though they are not automatically favorably disposed toward him.

Thick Skin (Ex): The Disciple learns how to better protect his fragile new body. His natural armor increases by +2, and increases again every three levels thereafter (+4 at level 4, +6 at level 7, +8 at level 10).

Great Leap/Ride the Wind (Su): The Disciple learns tricks to help him get around in his new small form. Movement speed is increased to 30 feet if it is less than that. Disciples with a non-flying animal form are able to jump double the height indicated by the Jump skill, and jumping distances are not limited by their height. Those with a flying form learn to maneuver through strong winds. They are treated as Medium sized creatures for determining the effects of strong winds, such as those created by the wind wall spell. These abilities only function in the Disciple's animal form.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a Disciple can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only in the Disciple's animal form. A helpless Disciple does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Apprentice's Memory (Ex): This is the first of the great secrets of the Disciples. Through rigorous mental training, the Disciple is able to recall any of the spells he knew before his transformation, and prepare them without the use of a spellbook. This ability applies to any future spells acquired through level advancement, but not to those learned in any other way.

Animal Caster: The Disciple learns how to compensate for some of the physical differences between his new form and his old one. This allows him to complete the somatic components of spells while in animal form by substituting various gestures for the normal somatic components of a spell.

Eschew Materials: The Disciple gains the Eschew Materials feat. He can cast any spell that has a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component. (The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.) If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, he must have the material component at hand to cast the spell, just as normal.

Strike Back (Ex): By using special tricks, the Disciple learns to get inside a larger opponent's reach without being struck. He no longer provokes an attack of opportunity when entering or leaving an opponent's square. Leaving or moving through other threatened areas provokes attacks of opportunity as usual. While some disciples use this technique to make physical attacks, it is usually used to deliver touch spells.

Beast's Teeth (Su): The Disciple learns to use the small natural weapons available to him to deliver more powerful attacks. The damage for his primary natural weapon increases to 1d4, with no damage penalties applied for strength. This increases to 1d6 at level 6, and 1d8 at level 9.

Memory of Man (Sp): This is the very beginning of the Disciple's return to his prior self. As a free action, he is able to assume the exact form he had when he was transformed, including whatever clothing he was wearing at the time. Though the physical change is real, the form is only a mental projection of the Disciple's memory. He appears as the same age he was when he was changed, and any magical clothing he may have been wearing is reproduced only as a non-magical facsimile. The disciple is able to take this form for a number of rounds each day equal to his class level, though those rounds need not be consecutive. His physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) return to those of his old form while he is transformed. Any objects carried are dropped when reverting to animal form.

Beast's Strength (Su): Through sheer force of will, the Disciple is able to overcome the limitations of his animal body. As a free action, he gains an enhancement bonus to his Strength equal to 3 times his Charisma modifier. He can maintain this increased Strength for a number of rounds each day equal to his class level, though those rounds need not be consecutive. this power only functions in his animal form.

Fly on the Wall/Fearsome Swoop (Ex): With practice, the Disciple is able to make better use of his animal form. Those with non-flying forms gain a +10 circumstance bonus to Climb checks, while those with flying forms are able to do double damage with their natural weapons when performing a charge attack while diving. These abilities only function while in animal form.

Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that while the Disciple still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, hhe henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Disciple does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Wiggle Free (Ex): The Disciple learns techniques that allow him to more easily avoid capture, gaining a +10 circumstance bonus to Escape Artist checks.

Mind Over Matter (Sp): As the Disciple further overcomes the limitations of his body, he learns to affect the outside world with his mind alone. He gains the ability to use the telekinesis spell three times per day. His effective caster level is his class level, and the save DC for living creatures to resist the effect is (13 + Int modifier).

Journeyman's Defense (Su): Through further study of arcane lore, the Disciple is able to better resist magical attacks. He gains spell resistance equal to (10 + class level).

Under a Rock (Ex): The Disciple is able to make better use of his small size when concealing himself. He gains a +10 circumstance bonus to Hide checks while in animal form.

True Form (Sp): This is the culmination of the Disciple's training. As a full round action, he is able to change between his animal form and his original form. His type changes to shapechanger, and he gains low-light vision in his humanoid form if he did not already possess it. Objects worn or carried while in humanoid form are melded into the animal form, unless they can reasonably be worn by the animal form. Any magic items so melded do not function.

Calyn
2004-07-16, 02:45 PM
Great class Pete! I love the creativity. The only problem I see is that it seems overpowered.

With this class available, my low level sorcerer would be begging someone to turn him into a sparrow or some such.

You lose 1 level of spell casting, and human form for a few levels (which is only a burden for one level until you gain natural casting), but gain a bunch of free feats, +10 to 3 different skills, SR, great AC bonuses and both regular and improved evasion.

While I really like it, I don't see the trade-off. You can take this feet as your third character level. By level 13 your are like a 12th level sorcerer with shapechanging and a bunch of free stuff.

peteyfrogboy
2004-07-16, 03:16 PM
Well, first off you couldn't take it as a sorcerer, since it requires prepared arcane spells. I suppose you could so it as a sorcerer/wizard, but that's just a dodge.


You lose 1 level of spell casting

Also, during the first level of the PrC, you can't cast spells at all. Making it through even level 2 as nothing but a talking frog is a pretty big challenge.


and human form for a few levels (which is only a burden for one level until you gain natural casting)

The human form gained at 4th level is extremely limited. It's not much better than casting change self, except that, in this case, you can change your size by a larger percentage. The primary drawback to being stuck in the animal form you can't use any sort of magic items (except maybe a ring or amulet if you can figure out how to wear it). Also, since you can't carry a spellbook, you're stuck with only the spells you have mastery of through Apprentice's Memory, which is not much compared to the spellbook of an adventuring wizard who can pick up more spells whenever he gets the chance.


but gain a bunch of free feats +10 to 3 different skills, SR, great AC bonuses and both regular and improved evasion.

Pretty much all of those are only available in animal form, and most of them would be balanced out by the magical gear available to humanoid wizards.
*

While I really like it, I don't see the trade-off. *You can take this feet as your third character level. *By level 13 your are like a 12th level sorcerer with shapechanging and a bunch of free stuff.

I admit that, if you make it all the way through the PrC, you come out the other side with quite a few neat tricks. Still, 10 levels of being a rat is a pretty big price to pay, even if you're a really sneaky, fireball-flinging rat. :) The biggest exploit I could see right off the bat was a higher level wizard taking the PrC for two levels to get the spell mastery trick, which is why I imposed the upper limit on spellcasting. Basically, the ones who teach this stuff intend for it to be used by downtrodden apprentices. If you're a higher level wizard who got turned into a newt, well, you probably deserved it.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-17, 10:49 AM
Nice class, if I ever become polymorphed and I was playing a wizard, this is the class to take lol

I don't play wizards too often, I favor Sorc but I might now lol

Sucky part is your grapple checks as tiny creatures suck lol
of course grapple has always been wizards problems, so its okay.

Hmm, I wonder you class can be taken around what 4th lv?
Most classes of prestiege are 5th or higher, but being a frog is hard enough so I guess 4th is okay.

peteyfrogboy
2004-07-17, 11:18 AM
The grappling thing is one of the reasons I gave the bonus to Escape Artist. You're never going to be able to grapple someone else, but at least you can get away. Really, you could take the class at 2nd level if you wanted to. It's intended to be used by low-level wizards.

Grey Watcher
2004-07-17, 11:36 AM
Here's a random question: Can a Disciple ever become a familiar to another wizard? (Granted, as you say, most just use their power of speech to ask to be returned to their human form and that's that, and even most who stay with this probably won't like the idea of becoming (yet again) indentured to another wizard, but is it theorhetically possible to be both a Disciple and someone's familiar?

peteyfrogboy
2004-07-17, 12:12 PM
Actually, the first thing that came to mind for me was the disciple having his own familiar. A mouse with a hawk familiar? Yikes! as for someone else taking the Disciple as a familiar, off hand I would say no. A familiar is a magical beast, while the Disciple is an animal (albeit a very smart animal with calss levels). Also, familiars don't gain experience. A wizard could call a Disciple his familiar, but he would really be more like a cohort.

Incidentally, while trying to answer this question, I read through the 3.5 version of the polymorph spells. It looks like the old "turn him into a toad" trick requires polymorph any object. According to the spell description, "polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form". I'm assuming that "grant" means it gives the target the Intelligence of the new form only if it's higher (e.g. pebble to human). If it also reduces Intelligence, then it's a much nastier spell and would, of course, torpedo my whole PrC. :)

Hadoken
2004-07-17, 12:31 PM
Well, first off you couldn't take it as a sorcerer, since it requires prepared arcane spells. I suppose you could so it as a sorcerer/wizard, but that's just a dodge.
You can take this as a sorcerer, just have to have a DM that allows feats from Tome and Blood at which point your 1st level sorc, or even bard can take Arcane Preparation, which does basically what it's name suggests. Spontaneous casters can prepare spells as a wizard does. This is mainly used so you can take full advantage of metamagic feats without the full round action. But wizards has pointed out that it can be taken to qualify for things that have spell preparation as a requirement. So you can be a full fledged sorcerer while taking this class.

Musrum
2004-07-20, 01:42 AM
Requirements:
* Must have been permanently magically transformed into an animal of Tiny size or smaller.
Baleful Polymorph allows for Small animals. Do you deliberately want to exclude these animals?

peteyfrogboy
2004-07-20, 06:54 AM
I actually didn't even know about baleful polymorph until after working on the class, since I only have access to 3.5 via the SRD. Even still, I wanted to only allow it for Tiny animals, since Tiny is more of a disadvantae than Small. It's not quite as bad being a dog as it is being a toad.

Musrum
2004-07-20, 07:31 AM
I actually didn't even know about baleful polymorph until after working on the class, since I only have access to 3.5 via the SRD. Even still, I wanted to only allow it for Tiny animals, since Tiny is more of a disadvantae than Small. It's not quite as bad being a dog as it is being a toad.

Maybe, not quiet as bad. But it certainly does suck for a spell caster.

You need a mechanism to determine the animal form. Else you will see allot of bats and birds.

I personly find it difficult to believe that a froggy master will be able to be found that quickly (ie. before a squishy death).

However, there is one potential master who is available, and while not a book smart as a young wizard is certainly much more street smart, and has allot more experience at being an animal: the kid's familiar!

I like the potential roleplaying aspect of this spin. You have the normal Master/Familiar relationship inverted for a level or so, as your trusty familiar shows you the ropes at ankle level.

A PrC that continues/enhances the familiar link would be pretty unique.

peteyfrogboy
2004-07-20, 07:49 AM
There is certainly a big bonus to being turned into a flying critter. However, if you were the one doing the polymorphing, wouldn't you be more likely to turn your worthless apprentice into something you could easily step on?

As for familiars, It would definitely make them a much bigger asset. For another interesting thought, what if the wizard got turned into the same type of animal as his familiar, and of the opposite sex? :)

Also, since the existence of the Disciples is not common knowledge, it's usually the froggy masters who seek out students. For example, the toad in the flavor text casting detect magic to determine the status of the mouse running out of the wizard's tower.

Zherog
2004-07-27, 03:43 PM
Baleful Polymorph has a duration of permanent, so this class is still valid under 3.5. BP is a 5th level spell, so it's about in line with the 3.0 Polymorph Other spell, and allows for animals smaller than small to be "created." Comments below.


<<snipped flavor text>>

Good flavor. The intro actually made me think of The Sorcerer's Apprentice from Fantasia. ;)


Requirements:
* Must be able to prepare and cast arcane spells of at least level 1, but not more than level 2.
* Must have been permanently magically transformed into an animal of Tiny size or smaller.
* Must have received teaching from another Disciple.
* Knowledge (arcana): 5 ranks
* Spellcraft: 5 ranks

Well, the requirements are "easy" but being a tiny animal sure is gonna suck. I think the requirements are OK for the target of the class - apprentices who screwed up.


Special Note: If the Disciple is permanently changed to another form (that is not also a Tiny animal), he will be unable to advance further in this class.

Good flavor.

Hit Die: d4


Class Skills:
The Disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier


An aweful lot of skills and skill points - especially since the character would probably have a fairly high Intelligence score.

Also, the vision of a mouse using the Craft skill tickles my funny bone. ;)



Beast's Speech (Su): This is the first thing a Disciple learns. He is able to speak any language he knows in spite of the limitations of his animal body. In addition, he is able to speak with animals of his own type, though they are not automatically favorably disposed toward him.

Good flavor. Might I suggest, though, moving this to second level so the character has to pay a price for being in animal form?


Thick Skin (Ex): The Disciple learns how to better protect his fragile new body. His natural armor increases by +2, and increases again every three levels thereafter (+4 at level 4, +6 at level 7, +8 at level 10).

Good ability to offer some protection. One thing to remember in 3.5 - the spell Barkskin now offers an enhancement bonus to your existing Natural Armor, so that spell will stack with these bonuses.


Great Leap/Ride the Wind (Su):

A movement rate of 30' seems too good. That gives these critters a speed better than dwarves, gnomes and halflings!


Apprentice's Memory (Ex): This is the first of the great secrets of the Disciples. Through rigorous mental training, the Disciple is able to recall any of the spells he knew before his transformation, and prepare them without the use of a spellbook. This ability applies to any future spells acquired through level advancement, but not to those learned in any other way.

So let's make sure I'm reading this right. A character basically gains Spell Mastery for any spell that was in his spellbook prior to his transformation, as well as Spell Mastery on any spells he gains from levelling during his career? Does that sum it up? Quite a good ability if that's correct.


Natural Spell: The Disciple gains the Natural Spell feat. This allows him to complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while in animal form by substituting various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.

You have a slight mechanical issue, in that (technically) granting Natural Spell doesn't help this character at all. As worded, Natural Spell allows you to cast spells while Wild Shaped, not while in animal form. You can reference the Natural Spell feat, but you'll need to basically write your own ability.


Eschew Materials:

Good flavor ability.


Strike Back (Ex):

Interesting, and it has the potential to be a very powerful ability.


Beast's Teeth (Su): The Disciple learns to use the small natural weapons available to him to deliver more powerful attacks. The damage for his primary natural weapon increases to 1d4, with no damage penalties applied for strength. This increases to 1d6 at level 6, and 1d8 at level 9.

This seems to be just too good to me. The bite of a mouse is going to actually do more damage than the punch of a human or dwarf - by a lot!


Memory of Man (Sp): This is the very beginning of the Disciple's return to his prior self. As a free action, he is able to assume the exact form he had when he was transformed, including whatever clothing he was wearing at the time. Though the physical change is real, the form is only a mental projection of the Disciple's memory. He appears as the same age he was when he was changed, and any magical clothing he may have been wearing is reproduced only as a non-magical facsimile. The disciple is able to take this form for a number of rounds each day eual to his class level, though those rounds need not be consecutive. His physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) return to those of his old form while he is transformed. Any objects carried are dropped when reverting to animal form.

A minor typo that I underlined (should be equal).

Interesting ability.


Beast's Strength (Su): Through sheer force of will, the Disciple is able to overcome the limitations of his animal body. As a free action, he gains an enhancement bonus to his Strength equal to 3 times his Charisma modifier. He can maintain this increased Strength for a number of rounds each day equal to his class level, though those rounds need not be consecutive. this power only functions in his animal form.

Interesting ability. I'm glad to see it focus on an ability that would often be a "dump" stat for wizards.


Fly on the Wall/Fearsome Swoop (Ex): With practice, the Disciple is able to make better use of his animal form. Those with non-flying forms gain a +10 bonus to Climb checks, while those with flying forms are able to do double damage with their natural weapons when performing a charge attack while diving. These abilities only function while in animal form.

Did you intentionally use an unnamed bonus?


Wiggle Free (Ex): The Disciple learns techniques that allow him to more easily avoid capture, gaining a +10 bonus to Escape Artist checks.

Another unnamed bonus type.


Mind Over Matter (Sp): As the Disciple further overcomes the limitations of his body, he learns to affect the outside world with his mind alone. He gains the ability to use the telekinesis spell three times per day. His effective caster level is his class level, and the save DC for living creatures to resist the effect is (13 + Int modifier).

Just be aware that Telekinesis is slightly abusable when it comes to propelling objects.

Your DC doesn't fit the "normal" format for a PrC ability. As the author, that's your perogative, of course. The norm is 10 + class level + ability modifier.


Journeyman's Defense (Su): Through further study of arcane lore, the Disciple is able to better resist magical attacks. He gains spell resistance equal to (10 + class level).

This isn't as strong as others are making it out to be. When they gain the ability we're talking about an SR of 18 for a character level of roughly 10. A 10th level caster (wizard, cleric, whatever) is going to overcome your SR by rolling an 8 or better on their caster level check - a success rate of 65%. I wouldn't worry about this ability being overpowered - all it's going to do is keep those pesky low level casters from giving you problems.


Under a Rock (Ex): The Disciple is able to make better use of his small size when concealing himself. He gains a +10 bonus to Hide checks while in animal form.

Untyped again.


True Form (Sp): This is the culmination of the Disciple's training. As a full round action, he is able to change between his animal form and his original form. His type changes to shapechanger, and he gains low-light vision in his humanoid form if he did not already possess it. Objects worn or carried while in humanoid form are melded into the animal form, unless they can reasonably be worn by the animal form. Any magic items so melded do not function.

Good culminating ability.

***

I'd recommend making the skill bonuses Competence bonuses. If you want them to stack, I'd recommend Circumstance, as they'll stack with all other circumstance bonuses from difference sources.

This class would make a great NPC. I can also see it combining very nicely with rogue and Arcane Trickster levels!

peteyfrogboy
2004-07-27, 06:17 PM
Thanks for the input. I'm glad you liked it. :)


Baleful Polymorph has a duration of permanent, so this class is still valid under 3.5. *BP is a 5th level spell, so it's about in line with the 3.0 Polymorph Other spell, and allows for animals smaller than small to be "created."

Yeah, I saw that after making my first comment about it. I should probably pick up a copy of 3.5 and start getting used to it.


Well, the requirements are "easy" but being a tiny animal sure is gonna suck. *I think the requirements are OK for the target of the class - apprentices who screwed up.

That's really the central balancing point for the class, since the animal form is small and virtually unable to use items.


An aweful lot of skills and skill points - especially since the character would probably have a fairly high Intelligence score.

Also, the vision of a mouse using the Craft skill tickles my funny bone. * ;)

I decided to be generous on skills because, especially for the first level of the class, the character will really have to find creative ways of doing things. Once I started adding the jumping and hiding type abilities, I wanted to make sure there were enough skill points to go around.


Good flavor. *Might I suggest, though, moving this to second level so the character has to pay a price for being in animal form?

Well, that's why I put the spellcasting abilities at 2nd level. At first level he can talk, but can't cast spells or use weapons or items, has no effective attack, and is easily squished. It would take some good RP to get enough XP to get through that level, since you can't do anything but talk.


A movement rate of 30' seems too good. *That gives these critters a speed better than dwarves, gnomes and halflings!

But not better than kobolds! Really, the movement increase was largely to put all the critters on an even footing. Of the animals in the MM, the cat had the highest movement at 30', while the toad was stuck at 5'.


So let's make sure I'm reading this right. *A character basically gains Spell Mastery for any spell that was in his spellbook prior to his transformation, as well as Spell Mastery on any spells he gains from levelling during his career? *Does that sum it up? *Quite a good ability if that's correct.

This ability is really the best one of the bunch, especially once you get to level 10 and can use spellbooks again.


You have a slight mechanical issue, in that (technically) granting Natural Spell doesn't help this character at all. *As worded, Natural Spell allows you to cast spells while Wild Shaped, not while in animal form. *You can reference the Natural Spell feat, but you'll need to basically write your own ability.

Well, in the text for the ability I changed it to "animal form", but I suppose I should rename the ability to avoid confusion.


Good flavor ability. (Eschew Materials)

It was necessary to make a viable caster, like Natural Spell. In my campaigns I never keep track of non-priced material components, but I know some people do.


Interesting, and it has the potential to be a very powerful ability. (Strike Back)

It's also potentially dangerous. I have a bad habit of playing wizards who pick up magic swords and for some reason think they can go stand in the front lines of combat. I've lost a few that way...


This seems to be just too good to me. (Beast's Teeth)*The bite of a mouse is going to actually do more damage than the punch of a human or dwarf - by a lot!

But less than a wizard standing safely out of the way with a crossbow. A wise wizard shouldn't be doing much melee combat in the first place.


Did you intentionally use an unnamed bonus? (Hide, Climb, Jump bonuses)

The unnamed bonus was intentional, though a circumstance bonus would have the same effect without the possibility of confusion.


Just be aware that Telekinesis is slightly abusable when it comes to propelling objects.

Your DC doesn't fit the "normal" format for a PrC ability. *As the author, that's your perogative, of course. *The norm is 10 + class level + ability modifier.

When I looked at the Telekinesis spell, I was worried that it might be too powerful. I took the base DC for the spell (15 +Int) and dropped it by 2 just to make it a little less powerful. By this point he may be able to cast 5th level spells anyway, and most characters of this level would have some sort of items that would give them a similar advantage. Again, this becomes more powerful after gaining the 10th level ability.


This isn't as strong as others are making it out to be. *When they gain the ability we're talking about an SR of 18 for a character level of roughly 10. *A 10th level caster (wizard, cleric, whatever) is going to overcome your SR by rolling an 8 or better on their caster level check - a success rate of 65%. *I wouldn't worry about this ability being overpowered - all it's going to do is keep those pesky low level casters from giving you problems.

SR is often not as good as it sounds, once the dice start rolling. :)


This class would make a great NPC. *I can also see it combining very nicely with rogue and Arcane Trickster levels!


Honestly, I would expect it to be used as an NPC more than a PC. The novelty of being a fireball-slinging rat would wear off after a while, I think.

Abelard
2004-07-27, 08:08 PM
Not only is this class fun, it's actually playable!

I was almost disappointed to see the Eschew Materials feat... I can picture a Disciple who was turned into a bat, looking for roughage so he can cast Fireball later... :D

Zherog
2004-07-27, 09:01 PM
Petey - you keep talking about the tiny animal being unable to use magic items, but that just isn't true. Items such as rings, cloaks, headbands, etc will all resize to fit the wearer. From the SRD:


When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.
There may be rare exceptions, especially with racial specific items.

Just something to keep in mind - being a cute, little mouse doesn't prevent you from wearing a ring of protection +5. ;)

peteyfrogboy
2004-07-27, 09:40 PM
A good point, though it seems to be subject to some interpretation. Jewelry I could understand, but most clothing I would probably disallow. There are no cat sweaters in my world. :) I certainly wouldn't want to open the door to people dressing up their familiars in all their spare magic gear. Weapons, wands, staves, scrolls, etc. would be hard to use without thumbs. The class certainly becomes more powerful the more gear you allow it to use.

Zherog
2004-07-27, 09:45 PM
Implicitly, weapons do not resize. Here's the very next secition from the SRD:


Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100).

I've always interpreted the fact that they explicitly mention sizes of weapons and armor to mean they will not resize.

As for clothing... our campaigns have generally allowed animals to wear almost all the clothing in the DMG. We've had animals wearing vests, boots, cloaks, etc. I don't recall any animals wearing robes, though. ;)

Starbuck_II
2004-07-27, 09:52 PM
I know cats can't wear sweaters but I've seen sweaters on dogs: yes they were hot (sweaty lol)

If you made armor or clothes for small or tiny creatures then they could wear it. The PHB talks about armor and stuff made for them.

I can picture a mouse wearing scale mail 8)
Sadly tiny or smaller armors have bonus divided in half. But weight 1/10th and cost 1/2 the gold.

Invariel
2004-07-31, 06:51 PM
Incidentally, could a bat Disciple use his own guano as a material component for Fireball? -duck- I like the idea behind this PrC. It's quite imaginitive... And, I worry about the possibility of a Disciple with a Shield of Inv Ariel as a familiar. Talk about role reversal.