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Isida_KepTukari
2004-07-13, 01:51 PM
One of the order (http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/l/i/lieuwe/femalemnk1.jpg.html)

"Isida leaped from the top of the tower, the wind whipping by her ears and over her tattooed scalp. *She stretched out a hand to slow herself down, aiming for the top of the giant's head. *The others were depending on her to get the fire giant down before he could throw any more boulders into the village, and she could not fail them!

"Pushing away from the wall, Isida spread her limbs in the stance of A Thousand Spider's Legs, invoking her Giant Spider technique; seeming to expand her size to that of the mightiest of giants. *Her arms, corded with muscle, wrapped around the giant's chest and arms, pulling him back into her grasp. *Tightening her grip, she felt something pop, and the giant gave a roar of pain. *He attempted to force his way out of her fatal embrace, but she bore down, getting an arm around his throat and nearly crushing his throat.

"With a yell of triumph from Isida, the giant fell unconcious to the ground, and she was able to dispatch the terrible creature with a single swift and fatal strike. *Many were amazed that a single person could take down a creature like a fire giant without a single weapon, and greatly desired to learn Isida's unique techniques. *With great humility, Isida Kep'Tukari founded a school for her techniques on the very spot where the fire giant had fallen. *

"And now, nearly a hundred years later, the monks of our order roam the land from the northern mountains to the southern shores, using not a single weapon other than themselves to bring down enemies that no one would think possible. *You will begin your own lessons today, making yourselves ready to do what no other fighter in all the land can do."

*The sensei rose from the old wooden bench without a hint of a limp or creaky joints that often assaulted the old, and chivvyed the youngers over to their trainer. *The current Taskmaster came over to the old sensei with a cup of wine as he looked over the younglings.*

"What do you think?" he murmured.

"A fine lot of young lions they'll be, mark my words. *They'll be wrestling titans before five years are up," Isida said, a pleased smile on her face.

Isida Kep'Tukari
Note: This class uses feats from Oriental Adventures.

The Isida Kep'Tukari are those monks that have devoted their lives to becoming living weapons. Forsaking the path of purity that leads many monks to becoming outsiders, they strive for perfection of the here and now. They are a great deal more down-to-earth and understandable than other monks, speaking in simpler terms. *

The founder was a human woman who gave the order her name. *Finding that the path of purity sought by her own order simply did not suit the challenges she was facing, she developed her own style. *Drawing from the tenacity of the spider, and the strength of her dwarven comrades, she developed a hard-hitting and hard-holding style of combat that emphasized standing one's ground instead of flowing with their moves.

Many of the Isida Kep'Tukari are humans, and nearly as many are dwarves. Embracing a style of up-close and personal combat, reveling in strength, power, and cunning, the Isida Kep'Tukari can hold on their own even in the most brutal of conflicts. Because of their emphasis on strength, the Isida Kep'Tukari are often called the "Beloved of Kord".

The majority of the Isida Kep'Tukari are monks, or have some monk training. A few fighters or barbarians also find the path of the Isida complementary to their own fighting styles.

Requirements:
To qualify to become an Isida Kep'Tukari, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and one of either Earth's Embrace (OA) or Choke Hold (OA)
Skills: *Escape Artist 4 ranks
BAB: +4
Base Fort Save: +5

Hit Dice: d12

Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points: 2 + Int mod per level

Level.....BAB....Fort...Ref...Will...Special
1st.......+1.....+2.....+0....+2.....Forsake Steel, Cast Off the Turtle's Shell, Monk Abilities, A Thousand Spider's Legs, Mighty Fists (magic)
2nd.......+2.....+3.....+0....+2.....DR 1/-
3rd.......+3.....+3.....+1....+3.....Mighty Fists (silver)
4th.......+4.....+4.....+1....+4.....Flying Kick, Mighty Spider
5th.......+5.....+4.....+1....+4.....Eel's Skin, DR 2/-
6th.......+6.....+5.....+2....+5.....Strength of One
7th.......+7.....+5.....+2....+5.....Mighty Fists (cold iron)
8th.......+8.....+6.....+2....+6.....DR 3/-, Giant Spider
9th.......+9.....+6.....+3....+6.....Mighty Fists (adamantine)
10th......+10...+7.....+3....+7.....Death of One Hundred

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Isida Kep'Tukari gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

Forsake Steel: While most fighters and barbarians trust their weapons of forged metal or carved wood the Isida Kep'Tukari teach that your own body can become as steel, cutting down the greatest opponents. If an Isida Kep'Tukari uses a manufactured weapon, any manufactured weapon, it throws off her internal balance, denying use to her class abilities for 24 hours.

Cast Off the Turtle's Shell: As with forsaking weapons, the Isida Kep'Tukari also forsake armor of any sort. The penalties for donning armor are the same as above, and stack with the penalties for using a weapon.

Monk Abilities: The Isida Kep'Tukari attacks only unarmed, so use table 3-10 in the PHB (pg. 40) to determine multiple attacks and unarmed damage. All monk levels stack with Isida Kep'Tukari levels for determining unarmed attack damage. *In addition, the Isida Kep'Tukari gains the unarmed speed and AC bonus of a monk, though monk levels stack for determining unarmed speed and AC bonus, as per table 3-10.

A Thousand Spider's Legs (Ex): The Isida Kep'Tukari can make and maintain a grapple with the tenacity and skill of a spider. She gains a competency bonus equal to her Isida Kep'Tukari level to grapple checks.

Mighty Fists (Su): The listed abilities give the Isida Kep'Tukari the ability to bypass damage reduction as if her fists were weapons of the listed quality.

Damage Reduction (Ex): Grappling is one of the favored modes of attack of an Isida Kep'Tukari. However, it does carry its hazards if one bites off more than they can chew. The Isida Kep'Tukari gains the listed Damage Reduction.

Flying Kick: As the feat of the same name, from Oriental Adventures. *The Isida Kep'Tukari gains this feat for free. *

Mighty Spider (Ex): *In addition to learning techniques of grappling, an Isida Kep'Tukari can learn to grapple as he were much larger that normal. *An Isida Kep'Tukari gains a +2 size bonus to grapple checks, though her size category doesn't change. *This size bonus stacks with any size bonus (or penalty) an Isida Kep'Tukari may already have.

Eel's Skin (Ex): The Isida Kep'Tukari can wiggle out of even the tightest grasp. She gains a competence bonus to Escape Artist checks to wiggle out of a grapple equal to her Isida Kep'Tukari level.

Strength of One: The Isida Kep'Tukari is a tower of muscle. +4 inherent bonus to Strength.

Giant Spider (Ex): Expanding upon the Mighty Spider technique, the Giant Spider technique grants the Isida Kep'Tukari a +4 size bonus on grapple checks. *This overlaps (does not stack with) Mighty Spider. *This size bonus stacks with any size bonus (or penalty) an Isida Kep'Tukari may already have.

Death of One Hundred (Ex): An Isida Kep'Tukari can fight even if dying or disabled (0 or up to -9 hit points), effectively gaining the Ferocity ability. She can fight normally at 0 hit points and below, up to -10, where she dies normally. Also an Isida Kep'Tukari can choose to enter a display of fury if she drops below 0 hit points. *This choice must be made immediately upon dropping into negative hit points. She can go into a barbarian's rage, gaining all the bonuses and penalties of a 1st level barbarian rage. *Unless she knows that help is on the way, this is usually the last act of one of these brave fighters.

If she chooses to activate this ability, she loses one hit point per round until death at -10, as per normal. *She cannot stop fighting during a rage until all apparent enemies are slain, or the rage ends normally, and thus cannot stabilize. *However, someone else can attempt to stabilize her while she is raging (usually with magic). *If she does not choose to activate this ability when she drops below 0 hit points, she must wait until she is at positive hit points before activating this ability. *The Death of One Hundred can only be used once per day.

Hadoken
2004-07-13, 06:16 PM
Skills: Climb +10, Jump +10, Tumble +10, Escape Artist +10
Just nit-picky, you might want to change +10 for each of these to 10 ranks in X. This is just to prevent literalists from going, "5 ranks with a +2 synergy and +3 ability = +10. I meet the requirement."

Another thing is the mighty fists ability won't be spanning multiple leves for 3.5 since it'll just turn into bypassing X/magic. Though you could change it to also include bypassing lawful, silver, whatever DR.


A Thousand Spider's Legs (Ex): The Isida Kep'Tukari can make and maintain a grapple with the tenacity and skill of a spider. She gains a competency bonus equal to her level to grapple checks.
By level here do you mean levels in The Isida Kep'Tukari, or total character level? +10 is cool, but +20 is better, make that more clear since I assume you mean in the PrC.

But other than my little nit-pickin' I think it's a cool class, would be very fun to play one of these.

Isida_KepTukari
2004-07-14, 11:19 PM
Thanks for the nit-picks Hadoken. I made this a while ago when I didn't have the format down completely right, so I changed those ranks. I also updated the class for 3.5, and switched around and added a few things to make the class more appealing.

AngelSword
2004-07-14, 11:28 PM
So this is now a Monk-only prestige class? That's cool, though you might want to remove the notion that fighters and barbarians becoming one of these.

One addition to your "Death of One Hundred" ability I'd make is to state that an Isida KepTukari gains all the benefits of a barbarian's rage, except that she can keep clarity of mind, and can differentiate between friend and foe while in the frenzy.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-15, 01:13 AM
I'm not familiar with Oreintal adventures feats Earth's embrace or Choke hold, but thats cool clas still.

well a Fighter can get half feats required through bonus feats: I don't think the oreintal adventures can be bonus.


I see a strange error:
If one has Ki Strike (magic) do already at least by Lv 4 monk (where you get Ki strike) small: 1d6, meduim: 1d8.
So unless you diminutive, you will already have 1d4 + unarm damage.

Lord_Nathanel
2004-07-17, 10:42 PM
I would love to play as this one and name him 'Iron Monkey' Too cool for words.

Zagaroth
2004-07-18, 02:07 PM
Sweet, I like it. :)

And they have been given the nick-name of 'spider monks' from now on. ;D

Grey Watcher
2004-07-19, 01:09 AM
I note that your Mighty Fists get the power of being treated as Lawful Weapons, but there's no alignment requirement, and your character could have supernaturally Lawful fists (feet, knees, etc.) even though he himself is Chaotic? Weird.

Also, a bit of clarification on the Death of One Hundred rage: is this as a level 1 Barbarian, or as a level 10 Barbarian (since you have 10 levels of Isidia by this point)? Is there any penalty for this? It reminds me of a special ability from the Anla'shok Ranger PrC from the B5 RPG called "Die for the One".


Die for the One: ...Rangers of this level gain the ability to push themselves far beyond their normal limits when their own deaths are imminent. Once a ranger with this ability reaches 0 hit points, he may continue to act without penalty (though one hit point is still lost each round as normal) until death occurs at -10 hit points.
Once this ability is used, a ranger cannot stabilise and gains no Constitution bonus for others attempting to stabilise him. He is literally burning his life force away in order to continue fighting for what he believes in. A ranger can choose not to use this ability when he reaches 0 or fewer hit points, but his choice must be made immediately upon suffering the damage that brings him to this point. If a ranger chooses not to use this talent so he can stabilise normally, he cannot then choose to invoke Die for the One and act until he first reaches a positive number of hit points.

I just thought some of the effects on stabilization and such would make sense in your class, as both are last ditch efforts that you use when you know you're going down.

Zagaroth
2004-07-19, 03:17 AM
hmmm, I hadn't caught that when looking the class over. You're right, a monk who got turned chaotic could then switch to this Prc with no problem... Isida, you might want to change that. :)

Isida_KepTukari
2004-07-19, 01:45 PM
Ok, I took everyone's suggestions into account, making it accessable for fighters and barbarians, removing the Lawful thing, revising the requirements so that they weren't redundant, and making the Death of One Hundred more clear. :)

Musrum
2004-07-19, 10:48 PM
A Thousand Spider's Legs (Ex): The Isida Kep'Tukari can make and maintain a grapple with the tenacity and skill of a spider. She gains a competency bonus equal to her Isida Kep'Tukari level to grapple checks.

It may just be flavour text, and thus not bother you, but spiders are not particully good grapplers in the game (no improved grapple etc).



Death of One Hundred (Ex): An Isida Kep'Tukari can fight even if dying or disabled (0 or up to -9 hit points). She can fight normally at 0 hit points and below, up to -10, where she dies normally. Also an Isida Kep'Tukari can choose to enter a display of fury if she drops below 0 hit points. She can go into a barbarian's rage, gaining all the bonuses and penalties of a 1st level barbarian rage.. Unless she knows that help is on the way, this is usually the last act of one of these brave fighters.

If she chooses to activate this ability, she loses one hit point per round until death at -10, as per normal. She cannot stop fighting during a rage until all apparent enemies are slain, or the rage ends normally, and thus cannot stabilize. However, someone else can attempt to stabilize her while she is raging (usually with magic). If she does not choose to activate this ability when she drops below 0 hit points, she must wait until she is at positive hit points before activating this ability. The Death of One Hundred can only be used once per day.

This is a combination of a weakend Die Hard feat (with the automatic loss of 1 HP) and the Rage ability. This can only be activated at a time when no Barbarian would normally activate a Rage. At the level you can get it, you will last only until you are next hit. Also note, at higher levels the -9 to 0 range becomes a smaller and smaller target.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-19, 11:02 PM
This is a combination of a weakend Die Hard feat (with the automatic loss of 1 HP) and the Rage ability. *This can only be activated at a time when no Barbarian would normally activate a Rage. *At the level you can get it, you will last only until you are next hit. *Also note, at higher levels the -9 to 0 range becomes a smaller and smaller target.


Maybe drop If she chooses to activate this ability, she loses one hit point per round until death at -10, as per normal.
Is a barbarian rage activated at -1 and lower too powerful?
I think its better that way, after all its only once a day.

What rest of you think?

Grey Watcher
2004-07-20, 11:16 AM
This is a combination of a weakend Die Hard feat (with the automatic loss of 1 HP) and the Rage ability. This can only be activated at a time when no Barbarian would normally activate a Rage. At the level you can get it, you will last only until you are next hit. Also note, at higher levels the -9 to 0 range becomes a smaller and smaller target.

Granted from the strict powergamers perspective, it isn't much use, but, with this class, you're already a pretty tough cookie to start with, and you're pretty much only going to use this when it's a matter of "if I'm going down I'm taking you bastards with me!" I like it.

Gorbash Kazdar
2004-07-21, 10:47 AM
I have to disagree, Grey Watcher, and second Starbuck's suggestion.

First off, let me make sure I'm reading the ability correctly: can the Isida Kep'Tukari fight to -10 as normal at any time, or only when she enters a rage? *I'm reading it as the former (kind of like Ferocity) with the additional option of raging, if you want to.

Anyways, back to the rage part: To begin with, don't forget about the bonus HP from the increase in Constitution created by raging (this adds a minimum of 20HP by level 10 in this class). *Because of this, you wouldn't need to stabilize until the Rage ends (which likely means you're dead anyways, since the extra HP go away, but you retain all of the damage you've taken - if the ability is activated ASAP, it only takes 10 points of unhealed damage to kill the character, less if the Isida Kep'Tukari is under 0hp when the ability is activated). *Since the Rage is like a first level barbarian's, it would last 3 + new Con mod, likely somewhere around 4 or 5. *Seven to eight extra rounds of combat seems like a good 10th level ability to me; I'd argue in favor of dropping the "lose 1 hp per round."

Vik
2004-07-21, 11:26 AM
This class seems cool, but is really unbalanced.
Take a look a it : at the 10th level, an Isida Kep'Tukari does have a +18 class bonus to grapple checks - this means nobody will be able to escape him ! That's overkill.
Think about it - versus any creature of size above Huge, he'd just have to grapple, hold, and inflict damage, killing it without any problem (remember he can prevent the creature he pins from speaking, that make spellcasting and word-triggered object activation tough !).

Oh, and the BAB progression is strange !

Gorbash Kazdar
2004-07-21, 12:54 PM
Vik: the grapple bonus is huge, yes, but the character has to get into a grapple first. Against some opponents, this is a very bad idea - anything that deals damage via touch (like a fire elemental) is not something you want to be in a grapple with. Additionally, being in a grapple means you are flat-footed against other opponents - and thus very vulnerable to a rogue. Grappling works best when fighting a single foe, and is very powerful there - but multiple opponents can create a big problem, not to mention anything with DR, or with regeneration that is not overcome with the types you gain from this class (like a troll). Spell-like abilities can also be used with no difficulty.

As for nothing getting away from an Isida Kep'Tukari, a character with 10 levels in this class will have something along the lines of a +28; however, a rogue of the same level with max ranks in Escape Artist can make a check of +25 to get out of the grapple. Besides, if the opponents can use ranged attacks and keep away from an Isidia Kep'Tukari, she's in deep trouble, as she cannot use any weapons besides her natural ones without losing class abilities for a time.

The class is very good at one attack type, but that attack type is quite limited, as is this class.

Zherog
2004-07-21, 01:36 PM
Hi Isida. :) I haven't read all the comments, so if I repeat something somebody else pointed out, please forgive me.


Requirements:
To qualify to become an Isida Kep'Tukari, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and one of either[/i] Earth's Embrace (OA) [b]or Choke Hold (OA)
Skills: *Escape Artist 4 ranks
BAB: +4
Base Fort Save: +5

You have a formatting issue there in the feats list. I guess you have to decide if you want "one of either" to be bold, italic or both. ;)

I'm not familiar with the OA stuff at all. But I don't think the entry requirement are too easy or too difficult.


Hit Dice: d12

Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points: 2 + Int mod per level

The Hit Die is nice and juicy! It makes sense, though, given the intent of the class. The Skill List is nice and focused - and I'm always pleased to see Craft and Profession. I think those should be class skills for every class. I think the only skill that made me go ??? was Perform.


Insert table here - I cut it without thinking

Your BAB progression seems odd. It's not the good progression like a fighter gets, nor is it the medium progression, like what the monk gets. Is this intentional?


Forsake Steel: While most fighters and barbarians trust their weapons of forged metal or carved wood the Isida Kep'Tukari teach that your own body can become as steel, cutting down the greatest opponents. If an Isida Kep'Tukari uses a weapon, any weapon, it throws off her internal balance, denying use to her class abilities for 24 hours.

It's a minor nit pick, but an Unarmed Strike is a "weapon." You might want to change the wording of the bolded part slightly. Perhaps, "If an Isida Kep'Tukari uses a manufactured weapon, any manufactured weapon..."


Cast Off the Turtle's Shell:

Nice name. ;)


Mighty Spider (Ex): *In addition to learning techniques of grappling, an Isida Kep'Tukari can learn to grapple as he were much larger that normal. *An Isida Kep'Tukari gains a +4 size bonus to grapple checks, though her size category doesn't change.

Another nit pick. Doesn't the wording of this mean that a large creature with this class won't gain any benefit, since they already have a +4 size bonus to grapple checks? Perhaps rewording it so they are treated as one size category larger? And if you go that route, you should then change Giant Spider to read two size categories larger.


Strength of One: The Isida Kep'Tukari is a tower of muscle. +2 inherent bonus to Strength.

This seems a bit small to me, but otherwise OK. Perhaps have it scale from this point onward?

***

I liked it. For a grapple focused monk this class could rock!

Isida_KepTukari
2004-07-21, 06:31 PM
Okiday, I attempted to clarity the Giant/Mighty Spider abilities, as well as the Death of One Hundred abilities. I also made the Strength of One a little cooler. Thanks for your feedback guys, this really helps!

Vik
2004-07-22, 09:35 AM
Vik: the grapple bonus is huge, yes, but the character has to get into a grapple first. *Against some opponents, this is a very bad idea - anything that deals damage via touch (like a fire elemental) is not something you want to be in a grapple with.

This is for most creatures untrue - touch damages are mostly dealt by slam attacks, so a pinned creature will not be able to inflict them. There is still the case of the Fire elemental, but that's not much (2d6 max : a good elemental resistance overcomes this easily).


Additionally, being in a grapple means you are flat-footed against other opponents - and thus very vulnerable to a rogue. *Grappling works best when fighting a single foe, and is very powerful there - but multiple opponents can create a big problem, not to mention anything with DR, or with regeneration that is not overcome with the types you gain from this class (like a troll).

In most D&D adventures, 80% of encounters are against creatures ; there are not much rogues. For DR, the Monk class and this PrC grants lotta DR bypass. Last, about regeneration, it's always the same problem : you take down the creature, then you burn it, or whatever is needed.
The main problem is facing multiples opponents ; but remember you fight in a party ; this means the warrior will be able to protect you a bit while the rogue will sneak attack the creature and kill the creature you pin very fast, things like that.
Oh, and do not forget that the Isida got DR and *d12* hit dice ! That helps a lot !


Spell-like abilities can also be used with no difficulty.

Ok for this one.


As for nothing getting away from an Isida Kep'Tukari, a character with 10 levels in this class will have something along the lines of a +28; however, a rogue of the same level with max ranks in Escape Artist can make a check of +25 to get out of the grapple.

Well, a Monk 6 / Isida 10 has a BAB of +14 and bonus of +18 from the class, and +4 from the Improved grapple feat ; his Str being the main stat for this kind of monk, we'll give him a base of 18, 2 bonus for levels (other in Constitution), a +6 belt, and of course the +4 inherent bonus from the class, that's a 30 giving a +10 bonus. That's a +36 bonus without the stat (to compare with the +20 Ranks available), and a +46 total grapple bonus !
Thinking of an half-giant with this class ... Brrrr !


Besides, if the opponents can use ranged attacks and keep away from an Isidia Kep'Tukari, she's in deep trouble, as she cannot use any weapons besides her natural ones without losing class abilities for a time.

True, but at low levels opponents won't fly and will use arrows or the like (who said Deflect arrows), and at higher levels, the monk will be able to fly and in most cases will be able to catch the opponents (remember he runs very fast).


The class is very good at one attack type, but that attack type is quite limited, as is this class.

My point is this class is too good at its (limited) attack type. Specialization is cool, and is what PrC are intended to, but ultimate power in one area is too much.

Isida_KepTukari
2004-07-22, 02:07 PM
Ok, I dropped the good Ref save, and cut the bonuses from Mighty Spider and Giant Spider in half. Vik, how am I looking? :)

Vik
2004-07-23, 05:50 AM
I thought about it and did take a look on MM. The class is not that unbalanced, cause a good number of creatures at high FP do have either a really huge grapple check (huger than i remembered), or some spell-like abilities that could help.
The problem is that make the I_K a too much selective PrC.
To balance it, I would upgrade and downgrade his Spider abilities :
- Downgrade : the ability cannot grant you an higher bonus than the creature are grappling with.
- Upgrade : be more precise, and say it allow you to *grapple creatures as if tou were N size larger (giving a +4xN size bonus) ; and put another one ability (so that he could grapple as if he was one, two or three size larger).

That way : at high level, you can use your grappling abilities versus any creatures ; but you don't have a so high grappling score that "little" creatures have no chance.

Oh, and you should give him two hig saves - I'd put Fort and Will high (damn tenacious grappling spider like thing !).

Isida_KepTukari
2004-07-31, 10:11 PM
Vik, I don't understand the point of not being able to grapple better than your opponent by virtue of your special size bonus. That would actually weaken your class abilities versus certain opponents. Yes, the Isida Kep'Tukari would be virtually unstoppable versus certain opponents, but then again, so are most monsters. I don't know too many people, other than possibly this class, that can get out of the maw of a dinosaur or something. The grapple bonuses are just immense at larger sizes.

So, I think I'm going to keep it as is. :)

Zherog
2004-07-31, 10:15 PM
I agree with Isida. The I_K is really damn good at grappling. Put her in other situations, though, and she's not going to do as good. Ranged attackers, flying spell casters, creatures doing fly-by attacks - and so on.