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View Full Version : [3.5] Tenser's Transformation, a Wizard and His happy place



KatfishKaos
2009-01-06, 06:30 AM
Hi all (Long time lurker, second time poster (does that saying even work anymore? =P)) first off I wanted to say thanks for all the previous advice that this board has given me, and hopefully you can help again. =)

Our campaign has hit level 11 and i've hit a few obstacles. Just so you know the 3 core books are open, but other sources are allowed I just have to talk with the DM first about it.

I'm playing a wizard and looking at the DC's it seems that my spells don't have the 'oomph' required to overly affect the monsters that we are and are going to fight. My solution was spend 58,000gp to boost my int to 40, but is this the best way or have I just over looked something?

It is a small group and the DM is being quite lenient about the gold we get so I created a Speed Longsword (also we released the tarrasque he felt sorry for us) with the weapon I will be coupling it with Tenser's Transformation for when I run out of spells and it is contributing to the roleplaying of the character. Are there ways I can improve his combat abilities without going overboard?

Last but not least, I hear lots of people on these and other boards (jokingly)
talking about wizards and their own private plane of existence / Domain, how much of this is a joke? I saw Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is there anymore to the spell then meets the eye (cookie for refference)? Or are there other spells that create the plane/s?

Thanks in advance and i'm sure i've forgotten something somewhere so just tell me what I missed out.

Cheers KatfishKaos

Heliomance
2009-01-06, 06:31 AM
Level 9 spell Genesis, in the ELH, allows you to create your own demiplane.

RMS Oceanic
2009-01-06, 06:33 AM
We need a little more info. What's your race? What feats/skills/spells have you chosen. Have you specialized, and if so, what schools have you barred?

Gardakan
2009-01-06, 06:36 AM
Level 9 spell Genesis, in the ELH, allows you to create your own demiplane.


That's sound pretty for a spell name... long life to Genesis

kamikasei
2009-01-06, 06:37 AM
What "oomph" are you lacking? It's important to keep your int up to boost your save DCs, but there are a lot of other ways to add to those besides prohibitively expensive stat boosters. Or is it something else that you feel is insufficient?


I'm playing a wizard and looking at the DC's it seems that my spells don't have the 'oomph' required to overly affect the monsters that we are and are going to fight. My solution was spend 58,000gp to boost my int to 40, but is this the best way or have I just over looked something?

Whoops, missed that you specifically mentioned DCs.

Well, you want to pick up DC-boosting items, maybe spell focus and greater spell focus in a favoured school, and target the enemies' weak saves. What kind of DCs are you able to put out, what is adding to them, and what enemies are you facing that are giving you problems?

Gardakan
2009-01-06, 06:38 AM
I think that at the level 11, with like 50 or 45 spells per day... you'll never going to think to run out of spell per day...

RMS Oceanic
2009-01-06, 06:43 AM
Wait, I just realised: You're a level 11 wizard with 40 int. That means your save DC is a minimum of 26 for level 1 spells. What are you facing that regularly makes these saves?

KatfishKaos
2009-01-06, 06:51 AM
Fair enough and here goes (going back and forth from notes on an iPod touch is ever so fun~).

Gray Elf Level 11 Wizard

Feats;
- Improved Familiar
- Leadership
- Corpsecrafter
- Alertness (when near familiar)
- Craft Magic Arms & Armour
- Craft Wondeous Item
- Scribe Scroll
- Quicken Spell (Haven't found a use for this, halp?)

Skills;
- Craft
Stonemasonary
Weapon Smithing
Armour Smithing
Alchemy
- Knowlede
Arcana
Nature
Nobility & Royalty
Archaeology & Engineering
- Spellcraft
- Concentration
- Search

Spells (You guys enjoy causing me pain D: *sore fingers*)
1st Level
- Mage Armour
- Shield
- Rope Trick
- Identify
- Burning Hands
- Grease
- Obscuring Mist
- Charm Person

2nd Level
- Glitterdust
- Web
- Scorching Ray
- Invisiility
- Mirror Image
- Protection From Arrows
- Summon Monster II

3rd Level
- Dispel Magic
- Suggestion
- Fireball
- Illusory Script
- Major Image
- Secret Page
- Sepia Snake Sygil
- Hold Person

4th Level
- Scrying
- Phantasmal Killer
- Evard's Black Tentacle
- Animate Dead
- Bestow Curse

5th Level
- Teleport
- Cloudkill
- Leomund's Secret Chest
- Baleful Polymorph

6th Level
- Acid Fog
- Create Undead
- Flesh to Stone


Also if you have any general advice whilst I know the system reasonably well this is my first wizard.

Katfish Out

KatfishKaos
2009-01-06, 06:54 AM
Wait, I just realised: You're a level 11 wizard with 40 int. That means your save DC is a minimum of 26 for level 1 spells. What are you facing that regularly makes these saves?

Sorry that is my solution, is that the best way to go? (Sorry if double post)

The Glyphstone
2009-01-06, 07:22 AM
You might want to strongly consider going Batman* here, depending on the makeup of your group. You have Acid Fog, Black Tentacles, Glitterdust, Web, and Grease, that's good. Pick up Solid Fog and Enervation as a 4th level spell, learn Ray of Enfeeblement as a 1st level spell. Depending on if your DM will permit non-core spells, the Orb of X [Fire, Acid, Cold, Sonic, Force] and their Lesser variants, 4th and 1st level spells respectively, are a decent blasting spell as a backup.

The reason? None of the spells I mentioned allow saves. If you're having trouble beating your enemy's saving throws, bypass them instead. Drop one of the above spells to cripple your enemy's ability to move and/or fight, then either spam Scorching Rays or let your melee buddies go to town on whichever enemy stumbles out of the fog first.


*A control-heavy wizard, if you're not familiar with the term, who uses no-save and no-SR spells to lock down enemies and let them be destroyed piecemeal. For Batman wizards, direct damage is considered far less effective than disabling or outright killing an enemy. Coined by LogicNinja and his thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500&highlight=batman).

Noneoyabizzness
2009-01-06, 05:26 PM
Sorry that is my solution, is that the best way to go? (Sorry if double post)

the question more is what does the dm do to you that 25-31 save dc is so easy to overcome? 40 int at level 11 you are in fine shape.

Talya
2009-01-06, 05:45 PM
the question more is what does the dm do to you that 25-31 save dc is so easy to overcome? 40 int at level 11 you are in fine shape.

No kidding. The maximum possible intelligence by RAW for a level 11 gray elf is 33 (and that's with the DM having been incredibly generous and providing you with a +5 tome of intelligence or a source of five wishes.) 40 is WAY ahead of hte curve.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-06, 06:01 PM
To be honest, Tenser's Transformation is about the worst thing any Wizard can do to himself. Hand that haste sword over to someone who can use it, or hawk it if nothing else.

Why are you running out of spells? Is your GM tossing 8-10 encounters at you or something?

There is a simple solution to all your woes: Rope Trick. Simple 2nd level spell. When you run out of spells, pop the rope trick, shimmy on up, and get all your spells back.

Grab the following spells ASAP:

*Disintegrate (6th level)
*Enervation (4th level)
*Rope Trick (2nd level)
*Haste (3rd level)
*Slow (3rd level)
*Greater Magic Weapon

These are only the ones I see offhand that need to be added quickly.

GMW goes on the Tank's weapon, so he doesn't have to pay cash for more plusses on his weapon of choice.

Haste and Slow are your bread and butter.

You want to know what Quicken is good for?

"Start of Combat!"

You: Okay, Quicken Mirror Image on myself, followed by Haste on the party.
GM: *WINCE*

OR: (vs several dangerous but stupid enemies)

You: Okay, Quicken Haste on the party followed by Slow on the enemies. All my people get major boosts, they get scr00d.

On feats:

Why did you pick up Leadership and Corpsecrafter? Leadership can lead to abuse, but ONLY if you are able to capitalize on it, which you cannot. Corpsecrafter, likewise, is only powerful if you have access to other synergistic abilities.

AmberVael
2009-01-06, 06:40 PM
Wait, I just realised: You're a level 11 wizard with 40 int. That means your save DC is a minimum of 26 for level 1 spells. What are you facing that regularly makes these saves?

the question more is what does the dm do to you that 25-31 save dc is so easy to overcome? 40 int at level 11 you are in fine shape.

No kidding. The maximum possible intelligence by RAW for a level 11 gray elf is 33 (and that's with the DM having been incredibly generous and providing you with a +5 tome of intelligence or a source of five wishes.) 40 is WAY ahead of hte curve.

Might I quote the opening post?



I'm playing a wizard and looking at the DC's it seems that my spells don't have the 'oomph' required to overly affect the monsters that we are and are going to fight. My solution was spend 58,000gp to boost my int to 40, but is this the best way or have I just over looked something?

While the "was" perhaps threw you all off course, I believe Katfish actually meant to say that he hasn't followed through with this yet. As such, at the current moment, Katfish might NOT have such high DCs on the character's spells, thus explaining why the enemies are able to make their saves.

He's asking if this is the best way to improve the wizard character. The answer, of course, is yes. Very yes. If you can get your Int to 40, it would help tremendously, though I have to wonder what exactly you're spending 58,000 gp on to do that with.

Eldariel
2009-01-06, 07:22 PM
No kidding. The maximum possible intelligence by RAW for a level 11 gray elf is 33 (and that's with the DM having been incredibly generous and providing you with a +5 tome of intelligence or a source of five wishes.) 40 is WAY ahead of hte curve.

Maximum, hmm? Maximum I can count according to core rules is:

18 base
2 racial
3 age
2 levels
6 magic item
5 wishes

for 36. 2 more if racial paragon classes are allowed, albeit that costs a level of casting.

KatfishKaos
2009-01-06, 08:00 PM
*yawns* Morning, now to the replies.

Vael is correct that is my solituon to the spell DC. Seeming I took the Craft Wonderous Items & Magic Arms and Armour, I was reading two entries (Belt Of Giant's Strength & Gloves Of Strength) and pretty much assumed you could do that with intelligence stuff.
- +6 Int item 18,000gp
- +6 Int item 18,000gp
- +6 Int item 18,000gp
Total 54,000gp. If that is not how it works then please tell me, always happy to learn.

Starting Int was 20 popped 2 in during the game. +6 Modifier, Dc's would be.

0 - 16 (never underestimate casting light on the enemies eyes)
1 - 17
2 - 18
3 - 19
4 - 20
5 - 21
6 - 22

This really isn't cutting it.

monty
2009-01-06, 08:04 PM
If that is not how it works then please tell me, always happy to learn.

It doesn't work that way. Enhancement bonuses don't stack with themselves, so you can only get one +6. You could conceivably go higher, but then you'd have to use the epic item rules, which are much more expensive (+8 would be 640k).

Heliomance
2009-01-06, 08:05 PM
Unfortunately, enhancement bonuses don't stack. If you have two +6 items, you still only have a +6 bonus. Sorry.

KatfishKaos
2009-01-06, 08:08 PM
/nod, shame. Ah well, I need even more help then. D=

ericgrau
2009-01-06, 09:54 PM
Try spells without saves, ones that trigger multiple saves or ones that boost your allies. But avoid stat buffs, since they're pretty weak, except out of combat and with extra spell slots. Non-stat "buffs" are good, though. Try direct damage if monsters have a lot of immunities to save-or-dies/sucks.

Good spells that don't have saves or trigger multiple saves are often battlefield control spells. A simple example is wall of force. Now suddenly your party only has to face half the monsters now, half later. Easy as pie. Other such spells likewise neutralize/greatly-weaken masses of baddies w/o killing, or some such.

Gelondil
2009-01-07, 04:22 AM
Some random suggestions - in no particular order:


I notice all of your high level direct offense spells are save-or die/save or lose. These are fun, but I suspect by your questioning that you're meeting the evil down-side. Namely, blowing high level spells on monsters that end up resisting. You could use more indirect damage & crowd control in these spell levels, without worrying about those pesky saves... Flesh to Stone? Ok, but what about Rock to Mud? Evard's for crowd control? Ok, but what about Wall of Force?

When you do need to cast directly at the monster, you can lessen resists by learning how to judge your enemies... Your spellbook should contain saves of multiple varieties. An average monster of your CR should have at least one save that's lower than the rest, capitalize on that. Big beasties are dumb (low will), undead are slow (ref), tiny monsters are frail (fort). Few monsters are strong in all three... when they are, see above (focus on no saving throw spells, party buffs, defensive).

Shneekey is right, get some of those spells he suggested, especially haste. And I wonder if enervation may fit your character's "theme" well?

You don't have many spells to make the best use of Quicken, yet, but how about another simple idea that you can already do from your own spellbook:
scorching ray (quickened) + Scorching ray = up to 24d6 of damage in 1 round - no save.

Since you've focused on crafting, make your allies some of these nifty items you're making... Or make yourself some metamagic wands. Many DM's will allow other players to foot the xp costs if you craft for them (at a price, of course).

Wizards don't have a lot of spells per day, so they must learn efficiency. If possible, ignore monsters (or even whole encounters) that aren't going to be a problem for the rest of the group. If not, then I'd like to know what you're fighting as well... You should be flying through the levels.

Noneoyabizzness
2009-01-07, 10:16 AM
ok my err then.

if you feel the dire need to do some fighterish activity, thunderlance (spell compendium/magic of faerun) is better than tensers trans. 4th level 3d6 20ft reach uses int rather thn str to dictate hit or damage and can kill of shield and mage armor spells on the person struck. still get to do some magelike behavior while fillin your inner fighter.

buy your +6 int item asap, or craft it. look over stuff and figure out what you need make a list. give the speed sword to a guy who should be using a sword. rogue/ToBy would be your idea choice. consider the other important items
1)cwi means pearls, ioun stone and other methods of spell storing. get more oomph by having a rainy day spell or two stored.
2)look for stuff that can stack odds in your favor. if going the ray route, gethee soem dex boosts.
3) scrolls scrolls scrolls. do not ever knock the joy of scrolls.

the biggest issue I see if the feat selection seems a bit eclectic. what is the primary goal of your character. you have leadership corpsecrafter, & improved familiar? virtually none of your choices seem to help get to a prc or some greater goal are you soem random magus trying to develop an army t topple a kingdom? does improved familiar give you a 3.0 toad over the 3.5? (now THAT is improvement, compared to a psuedodragon!)

edit:if just goign to jump from feat to feat one suggestion would be get the feat enhance item from the epic level handbook (nonepic feat though) that boosts the dc of the wonderous items to yours at the time of creation. with the circlet of intellect you will get a decent enough save dc, (base 20 +3 points for level+6 for circlet=29= +9 dc not counting boostsyou may or may not have fom other items/feats. best advice would be retrain for the most part.