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View Full Version : Dissatisfied with Erf lately?



Olibarro
2009-01-06, 10:17 AM
There's been far more complaints than usual about the strip over the last few installments. I would advise everyone to try to withhold judgment and wait it out til the end.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as others: these last few strips have not been as satisfying as ones in the past, and some things seem a little unexpected, to say the least, although I am not nearly as bothered by this as some apparently. I still love Erf without reserve and I anxiously look every day for new installments.

But here's what I'll remind people of: I don't think Erfworld is best enjoyed in weekly or bi-monthly installments. For me, I think Erf is best read as a comic book--as a single entity that you read beginning to end in one or two sittings, not spread out over weeks and months. Yeah, everyone's baffled and frustrated right now, but remember that in the completed book, this is just a couple quick pages out of 150. If you were reading the book, you'd scratch your head, but then you'd turn the page right away saying, "They better be going somewhere with this..."

Well, I have faith that they're going somewhere with this.

Rob and Jamie have told us an amazing story so far, and they tell us that the script is finished to the end of book 1, telling me that everything here is intentional, and they know exactly where it's going, because it's already written.

I think the bitching and arguing is all very premature. You're watching The Matrix with the last twenty minutes missing, and you're all arguing over whether or not it's reasonable for Agent Smith to beat the hell out of Neo in the subways, while the projectionist is still changing reels.

I remember early on getting very frustrating with Erfworld and giving up the comic for a long time. But then I went back and reread the whole thing (up to 70 or 80 maybe?) beginning to end. Reading it straight through suddenly put it all into focus for me, and allowed me to enjoy it on a new level. I'm anticipating that I will feel the same way again when the book is finished and I can read it all at once.

I'm glad Rob and Jamie DO present their comic to us as the pages are completed, because it generates interest and discussion and gives us a great story, even if it's just bit by bit. But it's clearly not the ideal format for Erfworld. The Battle for Gobwin Knob is a comic book, and will be best enjoyed in that format.

Anyway, I don't expect anyone to really listen, but my advice is for everyone to just chill out and give the guys a chance to finish telling their story. Once it's all done and you see where they're going, THEN you can start deciding how good or bad the storytelling is.

teratorn
2009-01-06, 10:26 AM
There's been far more complaints than usual about the strip over the last few installments.

Not true. Things were much worse during the donut of doom. Things looked calm because there was no real action going (or because Parson was winning).

Alexei P
2009-01-06, 10:40 AM
Nothing surprising here. This has been a regular trend from the start: whenever it looks like Parson is winning, people cheer. When it looks like he's losing, they jeer.

It's quite interesting to watch, really.

Sieggy
2009-01-06, 10:57 AM
I think a lot of it is the time between updates. If you were reading this in a book form, the narrative flow would be such that these questions would be resolved before you could really begin to sink your teeth into them.

And people have this habit of taking someone else's speculations and building on them, and the spiral of misunderstanding grows with every iteration.

MickJay
2009-01-06, 11:30 AM
Still, if authors are using forums to get some feedback, asking people to stop complaining is not really helpful ;)

Olibarro
2009-01-06, 11:44 AM
Still, if authors are using forums to get some feedback, asking people to stop complaining is not really helpful ;)

True dat, except of course this isn't going to stop anyone, or even tone down the level of debate at all.

I'd just be happy to not have to read anymore posts that end with "Bad. Writing." That's less-than-constructive criticism.

SteveMB
2009-01-06, 11:53 AM
Still, if authors are using forums to get some feedback, asking people to stop complaining is not really helpful ;)

There's a difference between just saying that people shouldn't complain and stating why, in your opinion, this or that complaint just doesn't hold water. Fortunately, I think we see a lot more of the latter (which can lead to interesting discussions) than the former (which is at the very least a bit rude, and at worst can degenerate into flamage).

headhoncho
2009-01-06, 12:39 PM
Not true. Things were much worse during the donut of doom. Things looked calm because there was no real action going (or because Parson was winning).

That was a long, long, long time ago. I think both the OP and others (including me) are comparing the last few strips to a significant stretch of time before that. But not quite as far back as the dwagon donut.

teratorn
2009-01-06, 12:58 PM
That was a long, long, long time ago. I think both the OP and others (including me) are comparing the last few strips to a significant stretch of time before that. But not quite as far back as the dwagon donut.

You're right, but that was also the last time we saw Parson taking a hit and things were much much worse at the forums. I'm just comparing now with a previous similar situation.

I don't like to see Wanda getting nearly croaked every time Parson has a plan, but I think there must be something very important in this exchange between Ansom and Wanda. And word from the authors seems to suggest that is the case:


There are good reasons for everything that has happened in the last few pages, whether it appears that way at this point in the story or not.

SteveD
2009-01-06, 01:11 PM
Webcomic fans get this strange sense of entitlement after they've been reading a strip for long enough (I've also moaned in the past for little reason).

Lamech
2009-01-06, 01:18 PM
but I think there must be something very important in this exchange betwen Ansom and Wanda. And word from the authors seem to suggest that is the case:
I suspect that it is too late for new changes to majorly affect the current conflicts in this chapter at this point in the story, considering how the authors say everything is foreshadowed. Now it could be important foreshadowing, OR here's my point - Wanda bluffing Ansom.

Quimper
2009-01-06, 01:27 PM
I love this comic. It's much better than OOTS or anything else found on the internet nowadays. Im getting frustrated for the overkill level of failure for Wanda, Parson and Stanley lately which seem to be leading up to 2/3 of them dying in the end (after they get to tell their story). :(

Im looking forward to seeing the hidden stories and secrets, which im guessing will be leading up to Charlies being the one true enemie of everyone. As i see it, Charlie:

1) Is probably behind either Salines death, manipulating the royals towards Stanley and 1/4 of the ArkenTools, while tagging along to be able to pick up either the hammer or the pliers. Or Faq's fall, being close by (1 turn to get the archons in place could mean one turn to get to FaQ).

2) Could possibly be the predictamancer from Faq, which seems to be the only one unaccounted for (unless it for some reason is Wanda).

3) Already has 1/4 of the ArkenTools.

4) Can hack communication, eyebooks and Thinkamancy. Provides communication for RCC. Good abilities when it comes to keeping tabs on the ArkenTools.

5) Uses enough RL humor (-HaXX!!! -Indeed) to perhaps come from the real world (or be future Parson), if not the predictamancer.

6) If the last ArkenTool is connected to dollamancy, perhaps Charlie IS the last ArkenTool. A doll become sentient.


Oh, and if anyone's interrested. This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0003.html)is probably one of the Faq ruins. :) Wanda is coming in from the west, which was the direction Stanley headed when he went for Faq.

DevilDan
2009-01-06, 01:33 PM
Quimper, I had quite a few comments to make on what you wrote. Then I realized that would perpetuate a massive thread hijack.

Quimper
2009-01-06, 01:41 PM
You mean like to one i just did?
Yea, i keep writing when i should've stopped when it comes to conspiracy posting.. :p

Fafnir13
2009-01-07, 02:00 AM
In answer to the original question: nope. Completely enthralled.

jmsl
2009-01-07, 07:10 AM
I was vaguely dissatisfied with the last few strips, but not because I wanted Parson or Wanda to win or power up and go on a mad rampage. It felt too rushed I suppose. I could have used a few more panels to smooth out so many changes. Although I check compulsively for updates, I'm in an odd place as I no longer root for anyone. The only thing I ever liked about Parson was his subversive humor, and while I wouldn't wish him harm, I don't want him winning particularly either. At one point I was hoping for some dark revelation from Wanda, but if there is one it may be in the last showdown, and she's destroyed my hope that she was secretly "good".

Ansom has been unimpressive for a while, even as an outmatched "good guy". Vinnie is cool but absent, and only a side character. He's not necessarily making it back for the showdown, if there is one. Jillian's okay but has way too many personal problems. The rest are more secondary characters that I may feel sorry for (Sizemore), but don't care much about. The only thing I'm left with is plot. I don't care about the obsession over tactics and rules that seems to dominate the forum. It's just enough that I really want to know what happens even as I fear I won't get a nicely satisfying ending. Watching other posters and feeling my own reactions it was surprising how terribly ADDICTED we are to our predictable story paths. The details can change, but the basics can only vary so much before we protest, vigorously as some posters, or in "quiet despair". I'm meandering, but there you go, there are my reasons.

DigoDragon
2009-01-07, 11:30 AM
Erf has been pretty entertaining, but even if it wasn't that good it's not like I can ask for my money back. :smallamused:

dr pepper
2009-01-08, 12:35 AM
I'm happy with the storyline so far and i'm sure i'll enjoy it all the way to the end. I am merely somewhat perturbed over what seem to be inconsistancies in recent pages.

DevilDan
2009-01-08, 12:37 AM
I'm happy with the storyline so far and i'm sure i'll enjoy it all the way to the end. I am merely somewhat perturbed over what seem to be inconsistancies in recent pages.

We don't know the rules, but I think that even if there are inconsistencies they could be reconciled, though perhaps not as smoothly. I won't let a few details deter from a good story, though.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-01-09, 01:20 PM
I haven't cared for the way Charlie has been presented recently. As someone with enough Archons to "take our garrison before our turn starts tomorrow" he has been put in the position of being able to decide who wins. If he can win alone, then he can win with Jetstone, and I believe he could also offer a win to Parson over Jetstone. The additional uncroaked units will be going away, and the only other change in unit counts can be Tool and his remaining Dwagons and the Foolamancer for Parson, and Jillian and Transylvito forces for Ansom. That looks to be about a draw in strength, leaving the status quo at Charlie being the decider. Not to mention that Charlie has 9 battle evaluations remaining which he can use at any time.

Charlie is also not really risking much. He can lose some Archons and possibly some good will (but everyone seems to want his services anyway, no matter the cost or his known shady dealings), but he is not personally at risk, unlike Parson and Ansom.

DevilDan
2009-01-09, 03:40 PM
I haven't cared for the way Charlie has been presented recently. As someone with enough Archons to "take our garrison before our turn starts tomorrow" he has been put in the position of being able to decide who wins. If he can win alone, then he can win with Jetstone, and I believe he could also offer a win to Parson over Jetstone. The additional uncroaked units will be going away, and the only other change in unit counts can be Tool and his remaining Dwagons and the Foolamancer for Parson, and Jillian and Transylvito forces for Ansom. That looks to be about a draw in strength, leaving the status quo at Charlie being the decider. Not to mention that Charlie has 9 battle evaluations remaining which he can use at any time.

Charlie is also not really risking much. He can lose some Archons and possibly some good will (but everyone seems to want his services anyway, no matter the cost or his known shady dealings), but he is not personally at risk, unlike Parson and Ansom.

We don't know what tricks Parson can come up with to deal with the Charlie.

Charlie isn't risking much, possibly; King Spacely, King Don, and the Sofa King aren't putting their own necks on the line either. That's what warlords are for.

ralphmerridew
2009-01-10, 10:59 PM
We don't know what tricks Parson can come up with to deal with the Charlie.

Charlie isn't risking much, possibly; King Spacely, King Don, and the Sofa King aren't putting their own necks on the line either. That's what warlords are for.

King Spacely isn't risking his own neck, but he did just lose a few thousand soldiers. So far, Charlie has lost one archon. Had Parson demonstrated a truly unforseen ability in the previous turn, Charlie could have simply refused to offer any contract to Ansom and cut his losses at that.

DevilDan
2009-01-11, 02:57 AM
King Spacely isn't risking his own neck, but he did just lose a few thousand soldiers. So far, Charlie has lost one archon. Had Parson demonstrated a truly unforseen ability in the previous turn, Charlie could have simply refused to offer any contract to Ansom and cut his losses at that.

It's like the parable of the rich man and the poor man. We don't know what fraction of his troops Spacely has committed versus what fraction of his archons (or his overall troops) Charlie's committed. My real point was that no Overlord was risking his own skin on the RCC side, not just Charlie.

d3115
2009-01-11, 05:49 AM
I am dissatisfied with recent updates, viz. , the lack of them.

Finn Solomon
2009-01-11, 07:02 AM
Lately? Erf has been unsatisfactory for quite some time now. I'm just waiting for it to finish before reading the whole thing through.

Tobz
2009-01-11, 08:12 AM
King Spacely isn't risking his own neck, but he did just lose a few thousand soldiers. So far, Charlie has lost one archon. Had Parson demonstrated a truly unforseen ability in the previous turn, Charlie could have simply refused to offer any contract to Ansom and cut his losses at that.

Charlie is a merc who uses solely elite units, probably with a very high upkeep. So even though he might not risk much personally, his expanded presence over GK probably was costing him a lot. I mean, why else ask Parson the exact amount of archons needed, instead of just deploying everything he's got?

That is ofcourse until he caught Ansom with his pants down, willing to sign him back on the payroll (and some more).

I guess Charlie has to resort to his merc work and playing both sides instead of just going for the pliers himself, simply because he lacks the resources to risk the wrath of a big player like Jetstone.

OT: I'm totally ok with the quality of Erfworld. I find myself looking forward to next installments of Erf more eagerly then even for OotS. The fact we're not switching between 3 or 4 storylines every few comics, is really keeping up the tension and pace.

Bawon von Howse
2009-01-12, 03:38 AM
....I've been reading Erfworld since I first noticed the extra 'comic' underneath OotS (something like page 3)....

...am I dissatisfied with Erfworld???

BOOP-no!

...yes it can be frustrating that I go on holiday for two weeks and theirs only one update, but hey, BOOP happens!

Every so often I will go back and re-read the whole thing through from the start (probably done it about 5 times now)...and I'll tell you one thing, it really flows well.

What I think the authors have done a particularly good job in doing is keeping the multiple character threads going whilst the action is on someone else; for example, if you take the most recent cominc, there's 11 or so panels of Parson ranting...then in the last panel you see the RCC cheering in the courtyard...now we haven't been shown the action of the 'fighting retreat' we just now know that it has happened and the outcome....!

BillyJimBoBob
2009-01-12, 12:00 PM
Charlie is a merc who uses solely elite units, probably with a very high upkeep. So even though he might not risk much personally, his expanded presence over GK probably was costing him a lot. I mean, why else ask Parson the exact amount of archons needed, instead of just deploying everything he's got?
Firstly, if upkeep is paid on a per turn basis, as it appears to operate, there is no additional expense for Charlie having his Archons at GK as opposed to anywhere else. As to why ask the amount of Archons, Charlie is a thinker and that was a very natural question to ask the Mathamancy Warlord you've just magically committed to answer 12 battle predictions. If he just "sent all" without knowing if "all" was enough that would be foolish. If he needs a reserve, as any cautious commander does, then asking "how many" is a very wise question.

Ravenlord
2009-01-12, 12:13 PM
Given that they are cheering the usefulness of the fighting retreat is at least debatable. They don't quite like an army who just took high losses from a retreating enemy.

SteveMB
2009-01-12, 02:06 PM
Firstly, if upkeep is paid on a per turn basis, as it appears to operate, there is no additional expense for Charlie having his Archons at GK as opposed to anywhere else.

Potentially, there is an opportunity cost (resources committed to one place are not available anywhere else). However, given the way Charlie was able to squeeze Ansom, that probably isn't really an issue here.

Lamech
2009-01-12, 02:27 PM
Given that they are cheering the usefulness of the fighting retreat is at least debatable. They don't quite like an army who just took high losses from a retreating enemy. They took lower than expected losses. If each unit say fought to half health maybe they took half causalties.

Tubercular Ox
2009-01-13, 01:22 AM
this is just a couple quick pages out of 150.

Wait, what? Really? That's known? 150 pages? What do I even search on to confirm that? Or do I interrupt a thread like the utter newbie I am?

Trixie
2009-01-13, 06:03 AM
Well, as everyone else, I disliked the weird stretching of time with Ansom, Pliers, and Wanda, but so far, I'm willing to give authors the benefit of doubt (as in the case of Jillian "defeating" that big dragon) and wait how they will explain that. If they will, that is, I hope so.

I can't forgive them for that "Bat Hax" though, Stanley had his overlord and artifact bonus after all, I wanted to see him wipe out that hex. :smallannoyed:

Whispri
2009-01-13, 09:00 AM
Given that they are cheering the usefulness of the fighting retreat is at least debatable. They don't quite like an army who just took high losses from a retreating enemy.
Did you notice how the troops doing the cheering aren't Elves? Elves were sent in first, Elves had to face the Warlords, the Knights, the best fighters, and thus the people who'd kick more boob before being forced to retreat. The RCC is made up of more than one army after all

headhoncho
2009-01-13, 12:07 PM
Did you notice how the troops doing the cheering aren't Elves? Elves were sent in first, Elves had to face the Warlords, the Knights, the best fighters, and thus the people who'd kick more boob before being forced to retreat. The RCC is made up of more than one army after all

That would be a neat nuance, I hope heavy losses to the cannon fodder elves are reflected in future strips.

Trixie: Totally and completely with you on the Bat Hax. Caesar's inclusion in the story as yet another way to pull a rabbit out of the hat for the RCC has been a majorly dissatisfying element for me, personally.

DevilDan
2009-01-13, 12:38 PM
Really? Is the bottleneck battle between Stanley and the Transylvitonian warlords a real point of contention? I admit I wouldn't have minded Caesar or some other warlords biting the dust just to show it was a more even fight, but I don't really give it any thought at all at this point. For one thing, it shouldn't surprise us that an overpowered force with few brains (two commanders, really, and both in the same stack) could be overcome by troops outnumbering them severely lead by multiple commanders. Plus, we don't know what would have happened if Foolamancy hadn't prevent an all-out altercation.

Olibarro
2009-01-13, 12:39 PM
Wait, what? Really? That's known? 150 pages? What do I even search on to confirm that? Or do I interrupt a thread like the utter newbie I am?
Educated guess. The real number will probably be greater.

SteveMB
2009-01-13, 01:15 PM
Really? Is the bottleneck battle between Stanley and the Transylvitonian warlords a real point of contention? I admit I wouldn't have minded Caesar or some other warlords biting the dust just to show it was a more even fight

We still don't know what casualties the Transylvito side ultimately took.

That said, my read is that after Jack came to his senses, he manipulated Stanley to punch through in the wrong direction (to avoid getting Jillian croaked and/or because he remembered Parson's call and agreed that returning to GK was Stanley's best chance given that the chokepoint ambush strongly implied that the enemy knew about Faq). With Stanley taken out of the fight, the dwagons left behind would be considerably weaker, and might have been mopped up with minimal losses (especially since the ambushers knew that Stanley had gotten away, and thus had less reason to take major tactical risks).

Sweetie Welf
2009-01-13, 01:48 PM
I'm not dissatisfied.

Okay, I didn't liked 122 and 123, but that's mainly because I wanted to see Wanda with the Pliers and Ansom pwnd by Parson. But you can't have your heroic Protagonist always win.
Unlike most people I don't share the opinion that there was a big plot-caused time stretch in 121/122*, and I don't share some other regular criticism.
So yeah, I'm lovin' it.

Lamech
2009-01-13, 02:04 PM
Really? Is the bottleneck battle between Stanley and the Transylvitonian warlords a real point of contention? I admit I wouldn't have minded Caesar or some other warlords biting the dust just to show it was a more even fight,
I was under the impression that if, Stanley hit Ceaser after knocking him "down" the battle would have been more in line with Jillian's dire predictions. He was floating on his back for crying out loud, Stanley should have croaked him.

SteveMB
2009-01-13, 02:21 PM
I was under the impression that if, Stanley hit Ceaser after knocking him "down" the battle would have been more in line with Jillian's dire predictions. He was floating on his back for crying out loud, Stanley should have croaked him.

Stanley's goal was to punch through. Croaking an enemy might be good (reducing enemy strength) or bad (lingering in the battle zone longer than necessary) for that objective.

The Minx
2009-01-13, 05:02 PM
That would be a neat nuance, I hope heavy losses to the cannon fodder elves are reflected in future strips.

Trixie: Totally and completely with you on the Bat Hax. Caesar's inclusion in the story as yet another way to pull a rabbit out of the hat for the RCC has been a majorly dissatisfying element for me, personally.

"Rabbit out of the hat" for the RCC? How so? :/ Don King knew that Stanley would be there with his dwagons and artifact, it would have made no sense whatsoever for him to send an inadequate force to deal with the encounter. More so since he wisely suspected Charlie of planning to renege on the deal (*).

No offense, but it seems to me that just about everything that happens which favors the RCC at this stage is dissatisfying to some people, with the reflexive assumption that it is a ad-hoc "fix". :) I'd say that if Don King had NOT sent enough of a force to win, that WOULD have been bad storytelling, since there would have been no justification for him to have acted that way.


(*) Golden rule of making deals with Charlie: assume that Charlie will break the deal.

headhoncho
2009-01-13, 06:18 PM
"Rabbit out of the hat" for the RCC? How so? :/

Not to cut off discussion, but rather to avoid rehashing matters (something that others are voicing disapproval of), I'll simply say that if you go to the episode comment thread where Caesar first appeared, and the one after that, and the actual "bat battle" episode comment threads, you'll see the pro and con arguments all over the place. :)

DevilDan
2009-01-13, 06:26 PM
(*) Golden rule of making deals with Charlie: assume that Charlie will break the deal.

I will just add that Charlie has not yet broken any contract, on the other hand.

I think that discussing the Stanley-Transylvito battle is off-topic to begin with, since I doubt it could be classified as something that happened "lately," as the thread title specifies. (That said, once the Don decided not to pay Charlie's extortionate fee, he would either send a really powerful force, which is what he did, or only send a messenger telling Vinnie that he should get out of Stanley's way.)

Godskook
2009-01-13, 07:49 PM
There is one, and only one problem I have with Erf. We aren't shown enough of the battles, and those that are shown entirely are entirely too small, to satisfy my bloodlust. In the chokepoint battle, we only really see Stanley fighting; he hits Caesar once, and knocks a couple no-name fliers out of the air. Jillian kills the illusion-dwagon and the fight ends. WAF v. Ansom lasts for two strikes. We see NOTHING of the fighting retreat. I can go on too. The story is compelling to me, the art is amazing, but please, Rob, Jamie, sometimes I want to see a knock-down drag-out fight without one useful word being said.

(P.S. My birthday is in March, can you make it happen? :smallwink:)

Tubercular Ox
2009-01-13, 08:05 PM
to avoid getting Jillian croaked and/or because he remembered Parson's call and agreed that returning to GK was Stanley's best chance given that the chokepoint ambush strongly implied that the enemy knew about Faq

There was something about the way you said that... I'm new, so this has probably been discussed to death, but I wonder if Faq will have a more central role to play should this story ever go to "Part II"

Kreistor
2009-01-14, 01:42 AM
Iwas one of the people dissatisfied months ago with the lack of progression. Right now, I think the comic is moving along very nicely.As the RCC pushes deeper and deeper, the story has to move ever faster to keep up with the desperation of the defenders, which will only make me happier.

Crod
2009-01-14, 02:07 AM
There is one, and only one problem I have with Erf. We aren't shown enough of the battles, and those that are shown entirely are entirely too small, to satisfy my bloodlust.

But it would drag out the storyline and not add content, making it lose its pace. I think this is one of the things the authors have managed to balance perfectly. Although I love some gore, it can easily slow things down.

I'm frustrated about Wanda not getting the pliers, very frustrated, but I'm not unhappy. I still think this is a very good comic. That it doesn't update very often make me come back and re-read the last page and analyze the game mechanics which makes this comic so unique. Just reading it from page to page wouldn't allow you to give it the thought it deserves.

Jural
2009-01-14, 02:23 AM
I'm not dissatisfied, I'm entertained.

Artwork, story, and development are top notch.

Personally, I see a lot of story arcs and developments which are like landmines in the future, which could damage the story. But to the author's credit, none of the development has.

I reserve my judgement until I see Parson take to melee however :)

bluewind95
2009-01-14, 01:56 PM
I'm a bit dissatisfied with the comic lately, but that's just out of personal preferences, not anything wrong with the comic per se. Basically, it looks so horribly hopeless... I like a bit of hope mixed in with the hopelessness, but it seems that every single ray of hope for Parson's side is brusquely taken away by overkill. That being done a few times is okay, but this last one (Charlie...) was just too much for me. It feels too... unnatural. Now, if Parson's side loses, well, so be it. But for goodness sake... make it seem like they had at least a chance. Otherwise, in my personal opinion, Ansom's victory will be... well.... bland.

This last update once more gives a glimmer of hope for Parson's side... I am only hoping the authors don't pull another overkill to take it away. Basically what I'm saying is... hopelessness is okay... but there comes a point where it's just too much to really seem natural. For a comic that is handling things "realistically"(within the context of the fantasy world's rules), it just really seems like all the gods and fates and everything are out for the blood of one side. And it's almost cartoonish in my opinion, so it kind of does not feel consistent with the tone that I noticed before.

Of course this really is just my personal opinion.

RinceBrush
2009-01-14, 07:22 PM
I don't quite see the problem with the bottleneck battle, I mean, they knew that the leader of the side they are trying to annihilate is going to be passing through a bottleneck, and they quickly resort to all the resources they can gather in order to intercept him. They assembled an unusual force just for the occasion with around 30 warlords, if I remember well to take him down for good, and of course it was overkill, if they killed him, GK would not need to be taken by force, it would go neutral, so they WANT overkill.

And though I really like the comic, I DO agree with bluewind in that all those overkills taking away Parson's victory are starting to make me desperate, I want to see what happens and, if possible, I want Parson to win!!! xDD. But I also think that just one of Parson's ideas going perfectly would reduce the comic to "The perfect warlord was summoned and thus ended the attack of the RCC on GK. Fin." From that point of view, I think a good story is well worth a couple of plot shields.

I suggest patience, hold back your negative rantings for a while, after all, it's THEIR story and the ones that must be sattisfied with it are THEM. Once it's finished, of course, you'll have all the time in the world to rage about all that wasted time, but for now It's a bit premature, in my opinion.

MadScientistMat
2009-01-14, 07:36 PM
This last update once more gives a glimmer of hope for Parson's side... I am only hoping the authors don't pull another overkill to take it away. Basically what I'm saying is... hopelessness is okay... but there comes a point where it's just too much to really seem natural. For a comic that is handling things "realistically"(within the context of the fantasy world's rules), it just really seems like all the gods and fates and everything are out for the blood of one side. And it's almost cartoonish in my opinion, so it kind of does not feel consistent with the tone that I noticed before.

Of course this really is just my personal opinion.

My interpretation was a little different than everything being out to kill Stanley's side: It looked as if Stanley was just a few turns away from losing before summoning Parson as a last ditch effort. It seems he's already lost ten cities and many of his units.

Still, it does sometimes feel like the sense of hopelessness is building up to crushing levels sometimes...

DevilDan
2009-01-14, 08:05 PM
My interpretation was a little different than everything being out to kill Stanley's side: It looked as if Stanley was just a few turns away from losing before summoning Parson as a last ditch effort. It seems he's already lost ten cities and many of his units.

Still, it does sometimes feel like the sense of hopelessness is building up to crushing levels sometimes...

I didn't think it was necessarily the likeliest outcome from a traditional storytelling perspective, but I always considered it possible, given the dire straits in which Stanley found himself, that not even the perfect warlord could pull his boop out of the fire. To pull a reference made in the comic, this could well be a Kobayashi Maru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru) scenario or nearly so. Reality is messy, even in a magical world. Caveat emptor: Wanda warned Stanley that the perfect warlord would not be "undefeatable."

bluewind95
2009-01-14, 10:54 PM
While I am indeed rooting for Parson's team, I would not necessarily be dissatisfied if he lost. As you said, he doesn't necessarily need to win. It's just that in the way it's presented, it seems like "Well, he's THAT hopeless, why was all this even done?". I mean, with the things that have been mentioned by other posters (Charlie, Jillian breaking the suggestion spell, the bat exploit...), Parson has been pretty much no threat at all. He's been more like a dog who barks, but doesn't get a single bite in. So, really, I'm not a bit dissatisfied with the fact Parson is losing so much as the fact it is so completely one-sided. It's going to be, in my opinion, majorly anti-climatic if Parson doesn't pull a win, or at least a tie. Now, if some of his plans had been more successful and he had actually made things more even... then it wouldn't be so anti-climatic if Parson lost. I understand that he joined the fray just before the loss. It just seems a bit... well... pointless if he really can't do anything to stop it.

Again, just my personal opinion.

DevilDan
2009-01-14, 11:09 PM
Parson has been pretty much no threat at all. He's been more like a dog who barks, but doesn't get a single bite in. So, really, I'm not a bit dissatisfied with the fact Parson is losing so much as the fact it is so completely one-sided. It's going to be, in my opinion, majorly anti-climatic if Parson doesn't pull a win, or at least a tie. Now, if some of his plans had been more successful and he had actually made things more even... then it wouldn't be so anti-climatic if Parson lost. I understand that he joined the fray just before the loss. It just seems a bit... well... pointless if he really can't do anything to stop it.

Not a few posters still expect that GK may fall or that Parson will end in Charlie's employ. Certainly, everything that Charlie has seen--and everything that I've seen as a reader--would lead me to suggest that Parson, with or without his sword or his calculator watch--is a more valuable prize than GK.

It's not whether you win or lose, in my humble opinion, but how you live the game.

bluewind95
2009-01-14, 11:21 PM
True, I'll concede on that point. :smalltongue:

I still think it's a bit anti-climatic, but yeah, this is just seeing it up to here. We'll see how the rest goes. I'm not giving up hope for the comic yet.

DevilDan
2009-01-15, 12:23 AM
I still think it's a bit anti-climatic, but yeah, this is just seeing it up to here. We'll see how the rest goes. I'm not giving up hope for the comic yet.

It seems as if it would be hard to swallow; on the other hand, if that's their plan then I'll bet that they'll pull it off so well that I'll be satisfied--even if others are not.