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Tempest Fennac
2009-01-06, 01:58 PM
If you take Weapon Specialization and Weapon Focus a weapon which deals 2 types of damage (eg: Halberds can deal slashing or piercing damage), would you be able to take both of the Weapon Mastery feats which correspond to that weapon in order to get a total +4 to all attack and damage rolls with that weapon, or would each WM feat only apply when you were using the specific damage type which they applied to? (Eg: if you had both MWM: Slashing and Piercing, would MWM: Slashing apply all the time or only when you used the Halberd to deal slashing damage?) Also, does using a weapon 2-handed increase the damage bonus from Weapon Specilization or MWM. (I'm guessing it doesn;t but I just wanted to check.)

Fax Celestis
2009-01-06, 02:02 PM
Depends. Some weapons are "Slashing or Piercing". On these weapons, it would only apply once.

Other weapons are "Slashing and Piercing." In this instance, it stacks.

And no, two-handing doesn't affect the bonus damage from WS or GWS or MWM.

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-06, 02:07 PM
Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking of making a Halfling Barbarian with a Halberd who did that, but the Morning Star is the only non-exotc Core weapon which this would work with. I'll check some other books for other martial weapons.

Person_Man
2009-01-06, 02:16 PM
Fax is correct.

Also, feats that provide static bonuses are generally much weaker then feats that provide scaled bonuses or special abilities that cannot be cheaply purchased with magic.

What's your ECL, build goal(s), and books allowed?

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-06, 02:28 PM
Any books are allowed (this is mainly theoretical; I'm more likely to use a medium creature with a descent Wis stat so that I can get Combat Focus, Vigour and Stability). This is what I've got so far (using a 32 Point Buy):

Strongheart Halfling. Str: 16, Dex: 16, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Cha 8 (after racial adjustments).

Feats:
1: Power Attack, Extra Rage (replace with Extend Rage around level 9), Weapon Focus (brught using Wild Flaw).
3: Cleave.
6: Weapon Specialization.
9: Melee Weapon Mastery (one damage type).
12: Other MWM.
15: Leap Attack (possibly swapped with Other WMW).
18: ?

Skillwise, my plan is to keep Survival, Jump and Listen maxed out while dividing the other skill point between Swim and Climb (once I have 10 Survival ranks, I'd stop bothering with it).

DrizztFan24
2009-01-06, 02:33 PM
Don't the weapon mastery feats require you to be at least a level 18 fighter?

NEO|Phyte
2009-01-06, 02:34 PM
Don't the weapon mastery feats require you to be at least a level 18 fighter?

that's Weapon Supremacy.

Douglas
2009-01-06, 02:36 PM
No, that's Weapon Supremacy. Weapon Mastery merely requires Weapon Specialization, and if you get it through some means that ignores the Fighter levels prereq (Pious Templar or Favored Soul, for example) that's just fine.

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-06, 02:41 PM
I'd forgotten about Weapon Specialization being Fighter only to be honest. I saw a couple of weapons in a 3.0 book called Arms and Armour (eg: the Wolf's Tooth Club) which would work, but I don;t think they were updated to the 3.5 Edition.

Person_Man
2009-01-06, 04:37 PM
Well, strait Barbarian basically gets you:

+10 Movement
Uncanny Dodge
Improved Uncanny Dodge
+8 Str
+8 Con
DR 5/-
A good Will Save
Trapsense +6

That's pretty lousy, and the progression to get to that point is ridiculously slow. The best pure Barbarian I've ever been able to put together relies heavily on alternate class features (forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-906113). Mix together:

Lion Spirit Totem: Pounce (replaces Fast Movement)
Spell Sense: Grants AC bonus against spells (replaces Trapsense)
Streetfighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a): Bunch of abilities (replaces DR)
Ferocity (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a): Bonus to Str and Dex (instead of Con) when you Rage.

Race: Orc or Goliath (if your DM allows LA buyoff)

Suggested Possible Feats: Ancestral Weapon, Item Familiar, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Battle Jump, Exotic Weapon Prof (Kaorti (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) weapon with a high threat range), and Headlong Rush or Knockback (depending on your race).

You could also try a King of Smack redux by using the PHBII Rage variant (which grants Str and a better DR bonus) with Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike, Robilar's Gambit, Combat Vitality, and a Vampiric weapon. But it'd be a lot more dangerous to play.

Of course no DM would ever allow so many variant rules. But there you go.

The real question is, are you wedded to pure Barbarian? If not, you can accomplish a lot more.

Eldariel
2009-01-06, 04:59 PM
The PHBII errata specifies that you cannot benefit of MWM more than once with any given weapon. Specific erratum:

"Page 81 – Melee Weapon Mastery
[Omission]
Add the following the two following sentence to
the end of the “Benefit” section: “Weapons with
two damage types (such as the morningstar, which
does bludgeoning and piercing damage) the
benefits of Melee Weapon Mastery (bludgeoning)
and Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing) do not stack.
But the bonuses from this feat do stack with those
gained from Weapon Focus and Weapon
Specialization."

Tempest Fennac
2009-01-07, 02:53 AM
Thanks for that, Eldariel. I don't really like PrCs due to often seeing the prequisites as not being worthwhile, and Halflings are pretty much the only humanoid race which I like enough to use, and I really don't like Orcs or Golliaths at all (I know that a Lupin or my LA 0 Gnoll would be much better choices, but I thought it would be more interresting to look into making a Halfling Barbarian*). The Street Fighter and Ferocity eatures are good, though, as does Spell Sense. (I'd sooner keep Fast Movement due to how slow Halflings are normally, though). Featwise, I'd sooner avoid Shock Trooper and Improved Bullrush due to Halflings not being that good at using Bull Rushes. I'd be focussing on dealing damage as quickly as possible in combat, so Quick Cleave would be useful here (I wouldn't bother with WF or WS due to the errata which Eldariel posted).

*Phanatons have both Con and Str penalties, so they are even more useless as Barbarians.

(If I was using a Lupin, which lacks any stat adjustments, I'd go Str: 16, Dex: 12, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 14, Cha 8 while using the feats which were mentioned on this thread with a 1 level Fighter dip: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91678 .)

EDIT: I was talking to a friend and they suggested 2-weapon fighting and http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Whirling_Frenzy . TWF sounds good for this sort of character, but I'm not sure which feats I'd take with it.