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drevil
2009-01-11, 12:01 PM
Power Attack
Feat Prerequisites: STR 13.

My Cleric have
STR:12
Belt of STR +2 -> giving a total STR14.


Can my Cleric choose and use Power Attack?

Sir Giacomo
2009-01-11, 12:13 PM
Yes.

- Giacomo

PS: The moment the cleric looses the belt or the magic of the belt is dispelled/suppressed, he cannot use the feat power attack any longer (until the belt is recovered/become active again).

Keld Denar
2009-01-11, 12:16 PM
The FAQ seconds this concept, if somene cares to look it up and cite it. I'd volunteer, but yea...websense > me.

Gibli
2009-01-11, 12:18 PM
Depends on the GM. Using temporary or otherwise non-inherent effects to qualify for feats and prestige classes is always dodgy.
If your DM approves (I wouldn't) he should strip you of the ability to use the feat, as well as any feats or prestige classes that depends on it, if your STR drops below 15 (such as if your belt gets stolen, destroyed, disjuncted, or if you end up in an antimagic field or the target of a dispel magic).

That said, I don't think there is anything in the RAW as such that prevents it, just that the bookkeeping involved is more hassle than it's worth.

Kurald Galain
2009-01-11, 12:30 PM
An interesting question is why a partial-BAB class with subpar strength would want to use PA to begin with...

Michaelos
2009-01-11, 12:33 PM
Depends on the GM. Using temporary or otherwise non-inherent effects to qualify for feats and prestige classes is always dodgy.
If your DM approves (I wouldn't) he should strip you of the ability to use the feat, as well as any feats or prestige classes that depends on it, if your STR drops below 15 (such as if your belt gets stolen, destroyed, disjuncted, or if you end up in an antimagic field or the target of a dispel magic).

That said, I don't think there is anything in the RAW as such that prevents it, just that the bookkeeping involved is more hassle than it's worth.

In my campaign, I ended up simplifying this to only check at feat selection, but to also require it to be a permanent bonus. The Barbarian decided to go on a personal quest to find a way to permanently switch her strength and charisma to get Epic Leadership, and then permanently switch them back afterwards to get her combat ability back.

imperialspectre
2009-01-11, 12:35 PM
Power Attack
Feat Prerequisites: STR 13.

My Cleric have
STR:12
Belt of STR +2 -> giving a total STR14.


Can my Cleric choose and use Power Attack?

Short answer: yes.

Slightly longer:


Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character canít use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.

A character is only required to "have an ability score," not to have an inherent ability score. Also, since losing a prereq means you lose the benefit of the feat, there's a system for preventing abuse of magic items and feat qualification.

And yes, like Giacomo said, losing the belt or having it suppressed, or having your STR dropped below 13 via a ray of enfeeblement or some such would mean you cannot use Power Attack.

Saph
2009-01-11, 01:02 PM
I've had this crop up a lot with druid PCs. There are often cases where a druid will qualify for a feat in one wild shape form, but not another.

Since a high-enough level druid can stay wildshaped 24/7, it's not really an issue, but it does raise the question of exactly how long it takes to level. I think 1e and 2e had specific rules on it, but 3.5 leaves it up to the DM.

- Saph

Keld Denar
2009-01-11, 01:45 PM
It gets even fuzzier with something like Bear Warrior. While Wild Shape is hours, easily a good portion of your training day while "leveling up", Bear Warrior is about a minute tops, give or take 12 seconds or so. Is it really possible to learn how to Knockback (RoStone) while you are a big angry bear? RAWR!

Matthew
2009-01-11, 01:54 PM
I've had this crop up a lot with druid PCs. There are often cases where a druid will qualify for a feat in one wild shape form, but not another.

Since a high-enough level druid can stay wildshaped 24/7, it's not really an issue, but it does raise the question of exactly how long it takes to level. I think 1e and 2e had specific rules on it, but 3.5 leaves it up to the DM.

- Saph

See pages 197-8 of your D20/3.5 DMG for optional training rules that cover time taken and costs incurred. :smallwink:

PinkysBrain
2009-01-11, 02:20 PM
It gets even fuzzier with something like Bear Warrior. While Wild Shape is hours, easily a good portion of your training day while "leveling up", Bear Warrior is about a minute tops, give or take 12 seconds or so. Is it really possible to learn how to Knockback (RoStone) while you are a big angry bear? RAWR!
Well if you allow it for the druid it would be a bit nasty to not allow it for the bear. You could just houserule that bear warriors have special/costly rituals which allow them to create an area where they can keep their shape longer for training or some such.

drevil
2009-01-11, 03:41 PM
I am a bit surpriced by the fact that most people are allowing me this.

Lets say a Wizard have a INT:20 (+5).
He gets 7 skillpoints every level-up (2 + INT-modifier).
With a periaph of WIS+6, will he get 10 skillpoints every level-up?

And what happens if he loses his Periaph?

monty
2009-01-11, 03:42 PM
I am a bit surpriced by the fact that most people are allowing me this.

Lets say a Wizard have a INT:20 (+5).
He gets 7 skillpoints every level-up (2 + INT-modifier).
With a periaph of WIS+6, will he get 10 skillpoints every level-up?

And what happens if he loses his Periaph?

No, because skill points explicitly don't allow non-permanent bonuses to count.

And I assume you mean Headband of Intellect?

drevil
2009-01-11, 03:46 PM
I meant Headband of INT+6.


Where does it say that skill points don't allow non-permanent bonuses to count?

Thanks.

Heliomance
2009-01-11, 03:46 PM
I'm pretty sure it's explicitly allowed to qualify for feats with items, though I couldn't tell you where that's laid out. Complete Warrior, perhaps?

drevil
2009-01-11, 03:58 PM
Some of you are saying that when choosing and using Power Attack, I can depend on magical items.

Do you have some referance?

The DM find that somewhat hard to believe.
{Scrubbed}

RTGoodman
2009-01-11, 04:03 PM
Where does it say that skill points don't allow non-permanent bonuses to count?

Uh, the description of the headband of intellect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#headbandofIntellect)? :smalltongue:


This enhancement bonus does not earn the wearer extra skill points when a new level is attained; use the unenhanced Intelligence bonus to determine skill points.

As far as using magic items to qualify, there's nothing against it. The SRD/PHB only says the following regarding attaining feats:


Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character canít use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.

Nothing says you have to meet it on your own, so using an [item] of [ability] +X should count. If you ever take off the item, though, you lose access to the feat and any other feats that depend on it until you put it back on.

monty
2009-01-11, 04:08 PM
{Scrubbed}

Then why'd you say it?

Evil DM Mark3
2009-01-11, 04:09 PM
Some of you are saying that when choosing and using Power Attack, I can depend on magical items.

Do you have some referance?

The DM find that somewhat hard to believe.
{Scrubbed}.

1)The FAQ was quoted earlier.
2)Why on earth did you even bring up your DM's faith??

JaxGaret
2009-01-11, 05:19 PM
{Scrubbed}

Consider this reported.

Roland St. Jude
2009-01-11, 06:21 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Please report rule violations, we appreciate that. But please do so without quoting the offending content (we have to manually scrub each quote) or all the finger-wagging (they'll get the message soon enough without telling them they've been reported). Thanks.

Person_Man
2009-01-12, 10:34 AM
Yes.

In one game I played a lycanthrope who only qualified for various feats while in hybrid or animal form. When in his human form, he was ridiculously weak. In addition, the DM let me know beforehand that most townsfolk are very superstitious, and would freak out if I changed in front of them. Lead to some very interesting roleplaying and encounters.

Tacoma
2009-01-12, 12:31 PM
We just houseruled it that you had to have the natural statistic (or whatever other prerequisites there are) but that you wouldn't lose use of the feat if you lost the prerequisite.

Example: You have a STR 14, and you get Power Attack. You are hit by Ray of Enfeeblement. Your STR drops below 13. You can still Power Attack. But you had to have STR 13 minimum to get that feat in the first place - as in your natural, not affected by anything, what it says in the little box next to STR on your character sheet, statistic.

Mando Knight
2009-01-12, 01:33 PM
In addition, the DM let me know beforehand that most townsfolk are very superstitious, and would freak out if I changed in front of them. Lead to some very interesting roleplaying and encounters.

Does a little imp show up when you try to change inside a town and tell you that she doesn't want you to create an uproar? :smalltongue:

Draz74
2009-01-12, 01:41 PM
An interesting question is why a partial-BAB class with subpar strength would want to use PA to begin with...

Prerequisite?