Jillian and Wanda (LONG!)

[HandofShadows]

I am new to Erfworld and these forums, but a long time on the net. On occasion I get it in my head to do some brainstorming/writing about things I see. And I have found inspiration to write about the two leading ladies of the Battle for Gobwin Knob. Some of this stuff has probably been gone over before and I might even get some things wrong. I can’t read the whole forum, but I have seen some interesting ideas already posted on these two. But I also have a few idea’s I have not seen. This is going to be long. Comments welcome.

Let’s start of with out our blond “barbarian”, Jillian Zamussels.

Background: Jillian was popped out as an heir with the expectation that she would be a warrior/philosopher Prince who would protect the hidden kingdom of Faq. Didn’t work out that way. Jillian was no philosopher and chaffed at being in Faq. So she was frequently out of the kingdom working as a mercenary. This got the Kingdom some money and let Jillian be free. A win/win situation all around. That is until Faq was attacked and wiped out. Jillian received one last report that a large number of dwagons had been spotted over Faq and then all communization was lost. Jillian then found herself a barbarian since she no longer had a city/kingdom.
Jillian continued to work as a mercenary and came to believe that Stanley the Plaid had been the one responsible for the destruction of Faq. Jillian was hired by Prince Ansom of Jetstone early in the war with Stanley and become a somewhat trusted warlord for him and a potential romantic interest.
Jillian was captured by Stanley’s forces on her first mission for Ansom, taken to the a place called Orgchart and turned over for interrogation to someone who was another survivor from Faq. It was even someone she had known, a Croakamancer named Wanda Firebaugh. Jillians interrogation by Wanda probably didn’t go as either expected and a strong relationship came about, despite Ansom rescuing her.

Personality and Capabilities: Jillian is aggressive, impulsive, but a little unsure what she wants on occasion. She has problems with authority at times (like most of it) and is not the best in “proper” company despite being a Royal. Her usual weapon is an monstrously oversized sword (Big Freaking Sword or BFS) she is able to use with apparent ease. Combined with her leadership, combat abilities/bonuses and gwiffins Jillian is a force to be reckoned with in combat. She is also rather lonely. She has almost no one to talk to and has hidden her real identity for a long time.

State of Mind: I have seen more than a few post about Jillian being a Broken Bird and maybe even a little crazy because of the way she fights. I don’t think this is quite accurate, at least in respect to how she fights. From the history we have Jillian calling herself a “sword swinging madwoman” back from when she popped, meaning that has always been that way in combat. But that does not mean I think that Jillian is a-ok. She IS damaged (or a bit unstable), or as I have seen “She does not have issues, she has a subscription.” But for the most part Jillian is able to hide this, or at least she was (This line of thought will be continued in Jillian’s and Wanda’s relationship further down). Jillian honestly believes that Stanley destroyed her kingdom and her goal is to kill him to get revenge. She seems to be attracted to Prince Ansom and has spent some intimate time with him, but I am not 100% convinced that it’s all it appears to be. First for her issues is the survivors guilt problem, then there is the “I was not there and I should have been” guilt. Both of these leave her in a state where she may to things that are reckless or allow “punishment” to be inflicted on her because on some level she feels she is guilty (even if she is not).


Now on to Wanda Firebaugh, the Master Croakamancer.

Background: Wanda was a native of Faq and might have been Croakamancer before her kingdoms destruction (She can be seen page 82. 2nd row, 1st panel. You can see something that looks like a skull in her hair). She looks to have been treated well by Faq’s ruler King Banhammer since she was a caster (Warlords seem to have been treated very poorly). But Faq quickly fell to an unknown (to the readers) enemy. A short message to Banhammer’s Heir (by Thinkomancer?) was one of the few things the apparently they where able to accomplish before being crushed.
After the fall of Faq (we think) Wanda came into the service of Stanley the Plaid and soon became his favorite caster and she faithfully served him in the losing war with the Royal Crown Coalition. Very early in the war, she was given a prisoner for interrogation and likely to her surprise it was someone she knew from Faq, the woman now known as Jillian Zamussels, the former Royal Heir. The relation ship between these two woman grew from this meeting. It likely that it has been Wanda’s power and advice (and manipulation of Stanley for his own good) that have kept the RCC from crushing the kingdom.

Personality and Capabilities: Wanda is a clearly a Master Croakamancer and has many other skills as well. These include manipulating others (including using her own body to do so), use of magical spells that are not Croakamancery (despite not claiming to care about those abilities) and is very intelligent and logical. Her hobby is torture and is a class one fashion plate. Despite being a native of Faq, Wanda is very loyal/dutiful to Stanley to the point of manipulating the overloard to try to protect him and the kingdom. Wanda does not show much emotion, not smiling much and rarely, if ever, laughing. Her interpersonal skill are weak and the only person she seems to have a true deep emotional bond with is Jillian. Though we have not seen how she interacts with Jack, another Faq survivor. When leading her uncroaked forces she is a power that cannot be ignored on the field of battle. Wanda clearly keeps secretes from others about her resources and about Jillian.

State of Mind: If Jillian has subscriptions, Wanda has the leather bound (pun intended) coffee table editions. She was almost certainly in Faq when it fell and what happened there seems to have badly damage her. (I have not seen anyone bring this up, but I may have missed the posts about this as well). In the panel I mentioned earlier she seem to be smiling (or that’s the impression I get). Wanda does not seem to trust many other people and seems to have a bleak outlook. Her description states that she is unable to hope, while I don’t think this is entirely true, it’s not far off the mark. The prospect of “encountering” Jillian early in the series shows that she can feel some hope (or at least anticipation), even if it’s for that one thing. Despite the fact that Wanda has taken up torture as a hobby I don’t really think she is evil (In the Middle Ages torture was considered standard practice and considered highly effective) as I suspect that she sees torture as a means to an end. At the very least she does not seem to gain sexual pleasure from inflicting torture (as a true sadist would). I see her “hobby” as a result of the damage she has sustained (she might have been tortured herself), not that I think it’s right mind you. Wanda seems to be half dead inside and without much hope because of what she has gone through, but I think that there is a decent caring person still buried inside and it comes out in small ways from time to time. What Wanda has gone though has caused a lot of emotional damage, but she does not seem revenge driven like Jillian is, rather she had tried to turn off most of her feelings and seems to have more or less given up.

[HandofShadows]

Now I am going to go off on a bit of a tangent here but it’s an important one. And it is “Who destroyed Faq and Why?” Now as to who destroyed Faq, the early indications are that it was Stanley the Plaid that did it as part of his “take over the world/collect the Arkentools” plan. After all there was a report of Dwagons over the place and two people from Faq are know to be part of Stanley’s forces (Wanda and the Foolamancer Jack). The thing is that both these people are VERY loyal to Stanley and “captured” units are supposed to have a very low loyalty rating. Neither would turn (change sides) when given a very clear chance to do so. There is no spell that is forcing Wanda to be loyal and there does not seem to be one of Jack either. In fact both seem to be loyal/dutifull beyond the norm, as if there was a very good reason beyond the “natural” ones to be loyal to Stanley. I mean Wanda is loyal even though she knows Stanley is a massive putz. And when Stanley was trying to get to the ruins of Faq to start over again, he spoke to Jack as if going back would be something to cheer him up/get better. If Stanley had trashed the place, you would think reminding Jack about it would be a bad idea. My conclusion is that Stanley probably didn’t destroy Faq.

So if Stanley didn’t destroy Faq, who did? I think we have already gotten a huge clue given to us by Wanda. When Ansom was doing a solo run at Gobwin Knob, Wanda attacked him and almost took him out. But Ansom cut a deal with Charlie and hired some Archons that saved him. In the process Wanda was dismounted and injured. Ansom went to croak her, but was brought up short VERY quickly when he got a good look at her and she started speaking to him. Wanda basically said two things. One was that Ansom had taken a great deal more from her than she had from him (Ansom was mad that 2000+ of his troops had been turned into uncroaked). Also Wanda wanted to touch the Arekenpliers he wielded. Ansom’s reaction was interesting to say the least. He ran. (Ansom’s reaction is a solid indication that Wanda was not talking about Jillian. I don’t think Jillian would have told Ansom that she had been earning extra XP points in the bedroom with Wanda. So he would not have know about their relationship). Ansom should have gone and taken Wanda out, but he fled instead.

What I gather from this scene is that it was Jedstone and maybe Ansom personally that destroyed Faq. Now why would they do that? There is an easy answer to that, the Arkenpliers. We have already seen that people want there artifacts badly. In Ansom’s case his “Royals are better bigotry” was also a likely factor. Of course there is another player you might have done it, either directly or indirectly and that is Charlie.

As we know while Ansom has the Arkenpliers, they are not attuned to him. Now why won’t they work for him like the Arkenhammer works for Stanley? Simple. The Arkenpliers are still attuned to another person, their true “owner” or the person that the tool choose (In the listing for the Arkenhammer, it’s listed as having weakness in it’s choice of friends. But that also may be a joke on the part of the writers as we have seen no indication that the Arkentools are intelligent). And here we have Wanda trying to just touch the Arkenpliers like she KNEW something would happen. I don’t think that the Arkenpliers would have attuned to Wanda. I think that they are *already* attuned to her. Even before Ansom was dismounted he took a swing at Wanda yelling “What did you do to it!”, an indication that Wanda at least for a brief moment was able to exert some measure of control on the Arkenpliers and that they had done something.

If the theory about Wanda being the proper owner of the Arkenpliers (and maybe even if I am wrong) is correct then how would Ansom get them? Arkentools are powerful, trying to take them by force would be hard and bloody. That is if they where being defended by their owner. From the very limited info we have things seem to have gone done something like this. Jillian is away playing mercenary someplace and while she is gone the Arkenpliers are found someplace in Faq. What's more they attune to someone, Wanda Firebaugh. Somehow news of the Arkenpliers existence get out and with that info the location of Faq. It's likely that magic was involved in the this. It might be that the Arkentools can be detected in some way (when they attune?) or that one Arkentool "knows" where the other tools are (read: Charlie might have been in on it). Whatever the case it's a race for the Arkenpliers and Jedstone with Prince Ansom wins the race and attacks a near defenseless Faq. Wanda and the Arkenpliers where probably in two different places when the invasion came and she was not able to get to them before Jedstone forces did. While the attack is going on Stanley from Gobwin Knob shows up and people in Faq think that the dwagons are part of the attacking forces (and probably don't have a clue who is really attacking) and this info is put in the thinkogram to Jillian. Stanley does not get the Arkenpliers, but one way or the other manages to gain the loyalty of some of the survivors in Faq, Jack and Wanda. Banhammer may have decided that Stanley was "worth" since he had an Arkentool, but maybe not. There are a lot of things we don't know. But for what I may have gotten wrong, I think one thing is clear, Anson is responsible for the taking the Arkenpliers from Wanda.

If my theory is correct (and it may not be) this leaves the large question of why didn’t Wanda tell Jillian about this? It would have been a good way to try and turn her to Stanley’s side (something Wanda should want to do). One reason that I can come up with as to why Wanda didn’t tell Jillian is because she didn’t think Jillian would believe her and might start to loose confidence/trust in her and the relationship goes out the window. Or maybe Wanda already tried and Jillian would not or could not believe. Maybe Wanda *can't* tell Jillian. Did Stanley (unthinkingly) or someone else give some order that prevents Wanda from talking about Faq? Wanda ducked Parson's inquiry into where she came from is a (very) slight indication this be the situation.

Now you might be wondering why I went off on this little, well BIG tangent when this is supposed to be about Jillian and Wanda. Well Faq is VERY important to both characters history and it’s destruction is what damaged them both. The question of who destroyed Faq is also important to the future relationship of the two women, maybe even critical.

[HandofShadows]

Jillian and Wanda’s relationship (yeah getting to the “core material” finally)
At first glance a relationship between Jillian and Wanda is very strange. They are seem to be very different from each other and are on opposite sides in a major war. Even back when Faq was still around they probably only had limited contact both due to casters having it a lot better than warlords and the fact Jillian was out of town and far away most of the time. But then Faq was destroyed and when they meet again both woman had gone through “some” changes. Now both of these ladies are very similar in their differences and have many more things in common then what is obvious.

First the differences. Jillian is a strong, tough warrior and Wanda is a (relatively weak) caster of spells, two paths that are basically opposite of the other. Wanda tortures people and well, Jillian likes being tortured, at least by Wanda. Jillian gets intimate with others because she likes/loves them, while we have seen Wanda use her body as a tool to distract Stanley and keep Parson alive. (Wanda is not clearly not happy about doing this though.) Jillian is impulsive and tends to see violence of the first option. Wanda is very careful in what she does and tries to see different options. Jillian tends to ware the same kind of cloths most of the time and changes style only when needed (and she dressed as a guy). Wanda changes her cloths all the time and a new look for every situation.

Now for similarities. Both woman are damaged by the fall of Faq, they keep secretes from nearly everyone around them, they are both very powerful and have the ear (among other things) of their respective leaders, they have tastes that are not in the bounds of normal society (Wanda tortures, Jillian likes it). Both women exhibit some level of bisexuality, with each other at any rate (not indication of that this extends to other women as of yet). And the one thing they share most strongly is the bond with each other. Both woman have lied to their leaders to protect the other. Even when they confronted each other in battle, neither woman tried to kill the other, when in fact it would have been logical, and even demanded by Duty/Loyalty to do so. But not only don’t they try to croak each other, they go out of the way not to.

A small detour into the structure of relationships (It will be short, I promise). In all relationships one party is above the other or dominant in some way. Being dominant does not mean that the party rules the relationship like a tyrant though. In healthy relationships the dominance can change from one party to another and the degree of dominance will always be shifting as well. Most of the time people are not even aware of this going on. Also parteners can give up thier dominance to others for any number of reasons.

In the case of Jillian and Wanda, things are as Wanda stated “complex”. In fact the two woman’s relationship has many characteristics of bondage/domination/sadomasochist relationships, but it is much more than that as well. Now to some people it would seem the lady with the cat of nine tails is the one that is the dominant one and the submissive one being the woman that is chained up. You would be wrong. The person with the most power in the relationship is Jillian, not Wanda. Jillian is one who keeps the relationship going. Do your think that her being captured all the time and being turned over to Wanda to be tortured is an accident? It’s not. Jillian likes, wants, to be in Wanda’s power and be tortured by her. As stated, Jillian has a subscription and being hurt by Wanda makes her feel good on some level (not sexually though). Jillian has a deep seated need to be punished and Wanda is the person she trusted to do it. It is Jillian that makes the decision to give up power to Wanda.

For her part, Wanda likes being in control of Jillian and enjoys hurting her (though it does not seem to give her sexual satisfaction). But there are things that Wanda will not do because Jillian trusts her not to do them. In a very real way Jillian is controlling the torture sessions, or at least how far they will go. Wanda for her part needs Jillian. She is the only real emotional attachment she has in her life (that we know of). The only person she can talk to and share herself and be with be intimate with on an emtional level. Jillian likely has been the only bright spot in Wanda's life for a long time.

We don’t know what happened when Jillian was first brought to Wanda for “interrogation”, but I imagine something at a very basic level clicked between the two women almost immediately. I suspect neither talked about it and they might not have been quite aware of why they acted they way they did. I mean Wanda went and tortured the former heir to her old kingdom and Jillian liking the the subject of that torture. While we know that Jillian and Wanda are from originally from Faq, we don't know what their relationship was at that time. They certainly knew each other and could have been (good?) friends while Jillian was in the city. I do find it very hard to belive that the relationship was sadomasacistic at this point though. One thing out about being tortured in Erfworld is that your wounds will always heal if you make it through the turn. So you can do some very nasty things and don’t have to worry about permanent injury. Well, permanent *physical* injury. The mental/emotional injuries are a totally different story. Ansom rescued Jillian though, but soon she was back under Wanda’s whip. It’s clear that every time Jillian was captured, Jillian refused to do it the “easy way” (she wanted the hard way) and it was almost to the point where Wanda stopped asking. There is much more than just the abuse to this relationship, both women are bound together on a deep emotional level that runs from trust to love (as a friend and as a romantic partner). Somewhere along the line, fairly early I think (but I could be wrong) the two started going for the golden tongue award with each other with Wanda calling it a “reward” for Jillian’s good behavior. This physical lust, while fairly important, is just part of the relationship and likely just served to reinforce emotional bonds.

[HandofShadows]

The relationship seems to been stable and probably would have stayed that way if not for Stanley being forced back to Gobwin Knob and on the verge of losing the war. This is the point where we pick up the story. When Jillian again gets captured she asks for the easy way, or rather the "really easy way". Jillian wants both of them to make a run for it. Wanda is surprised and I think angry (Is Jillian doing this violation of the “rules”?). Of course Wanda is not going to leave and strikes Jillian a number of times and reinforces the “mistress” role while Jillian slips into the “prisoner” role. Then Wanda makes a mistake, she uses a Suggestion Spell on Jillian. This spell does not control Jillian, but influences her actions to an extent, it cannot get her to do something she would not do normally (such as helping Stanley or hurting Ansom), it will cause her to find reasons to do things that might not have otherwise done or urges her to take certain actions. After the torture is over and Jillian has spilled all she knows about Ansom’s plans, the two get some time for some friendly girl talk (and both talk/act as if Jillian had not just been tortured) and Jillian is fully healed at dawn. But warrior is suffering a great deal of remorse about what she had done (spilling Ansom's plans). Wanda gives her some comforting words and promises that Jillian would be rewarded that night (ready the X-Rated sound effects).

Side note about torturing for information. I don't know if the writers know it, but in real life torture is NOT a good way to get information. Not only is it cruel and unethical, the information you get has a real high chance of being inaccurate. When you torture someone and "break" them, they will do/say anything to make the torture stop. This includes lying. So when you torture someone for info, they will tell you whatevery you want to hear. In Jillian's case, she liked being tortured and likely held out telling what she knew until Wanda had done enough to her. I think this "weakness" for being tortured would only apply to someone she truly trusts. If someone else tried to torture Jillian for info, I don't think there would be much useful information gotten from it.

Parson has a plan for Jillian (she is to be a double agent for him) and soon she is set free. Wanda personally drops her off near RCC forces after an apparent goodby kiss. Jillian links up with Amsom's forces where she is strongly questioned about her loyalty by some of it's members. They don't like Jillian and think she is a traitor since she is being captured so much. Parson's plan goes forward and he manages to trap Ansom and a few of his top warlords. Jillian in defiance of orders (again) goes to rescue him and has become very lovy-dovy about him all of sudden. Instead of finding Ansom, he finds the injured dwagons Parson had being attacking Ansom's forces with and that Ansom had been hunting. This causes a huge problem, Jillian is trapped between what she wants to do (kill the dwagons) and not doing anything to that might be detrimental to Wanda. So she is trapped in a state of indecision with three of Charlie's Archons trying to get to her to do something. Jillian tells them they don't understand and finally admits that "I like it!".

Meanwhile Wanda, Parson and Stanley have been watching from Gobwin Knob and Wanda is dead sure that Jillian will not break her spell. The next we see Jillian she is sending a thinkogram to Ansom saying she is free and that she loves him and she is going to go kill some dwagons. She does not seem troubled in any way at this time. Parson orders the injured dwagons and un-croaked riders to croak Jillian. Wanda pleads not to kill Jillian, but it does no good and the order is given by Stanley. Wanda stumbles away and goes catatonic while Ansom rides to the rescue of Jillian and saves from being croaked at literally the last moment. Stanley is pissed at Person and Wanda and orders them out his sight. Parson takes the catatonic Wanda back to her quarters. Parson is later informed that Wanda had been hit by a magical backlash when the Suggestion Spell was broken. That night Jillian decides to tell her personal history to Ansom. Shortly afterward Jillian comes on to Ansom and gives him a magic carpet ride.

There are a number of things that don't add up here. First Wanda. Parson was told that when the Suggestion Spell was broken by Jillian there was a backlash and that Wanda had been hit by it. From the description the backlash looks to be rather nasty. But the timing is all wrong. Long after Jillian supposedly broke the spell, Wanda was still quite alert and she was begging for Jillian's life to be spared by Person and Stanley (Yes, the "twisted evil croakamancer" begged for Jillian's life). It was only after Stanley have the order to have Jillian croaked did Wanda become unresponsive and drift away. Could it be that Wanda's spell was not broken and that Wanda had gone comatose over the thought of Jillian impending death? And Wanda's inability to speak is psychosomatic? The Thinkamancer does indicate that Wanda was hit by spell backlash and I don't think she would "cover" for Wanda that much. Still I get the feeling there is more going on here then we know about right now. Maybe it’s both spell backlash and the emotional shock? Wanda does seem to be able to cast spell with no problem despite having problems speaking.

On to Jillian. After Jillian is dropped off by Wanda she starts to act a little odd. Oh, she is impulsive and prone to violence as ever, but there is a clearly visible change in attitude towards Ansom. Early in the series we see that while Jillian does like Ansom and is actually tempted to visit his tent at night, she cannot bring herself to do it. After the Suggestion Spell is cast and before there is any conflict between the spell and what she wants to do, Jillian is all lovey dovy about Ansom, like a teenage girl with crush. After the spell is "broken" Jillian declares her love Amson, willingly tells her life story she had kept from everyone to him and eagerly makes the beast with two backs with him. What the boop?

All of this shows a sudden huge change of Jillian's attitude towards Amson. Now the question is why? First lets go with a non magical one. After being zapped by Wanda, Jillian slowly gets madder and madder about it and to "prove" her independence she jumps onto Ansom. I'm not sure if I can buy this. Going from "not bad for a Royal" to "I love Ansom" is a huge jump. Could magic be the cause? The first of the magical reasons for Jillian's behavior is that Wanda didn't actually cast a Suggestion Sell, but something else and it didn't work the way she wanted it to. But why would she lie and say it was a Suggestion spell? (shrug). Next up is that Wanda made a mistake in the spell someplace, not the casting of the spell, but maybe the wording of the suggestion she made to Jillian was off in some way or allowed Jillian to turn it on it's head. This could have happened. Then there is the possibility that the spell itself is messed up. Could Charlie (and his Arkendish) messed with the spell in some way? Charlie does play a long game. The Suggestion spell could also have been messed with by the Archons, but not intentionally. The Archons are powerful magical beings, they might have messed up the spell just by being near Jillian. This is another maybe. It’s only after Jillian is around the Archons for a little while that Jillian starts the observable attitude change.

[HandofShadows]

The is last magical reason is from left field and is something I have not seen put forth. And that Jillian was already under a spell of some sort before Wanda cast hers. Over time the spells started to interact and either malfunction or one ended up reinforcing the other. Likely the first spell ended up being dominant. So the spell goes from giving hints to go and act a specific way, to messing with Jillian’s mind and causing her to do things she normally would not. Now who would have cast a spell on Jillian before Wanda? Well the first and only person that comes to mind is Ansom (or rather he had someone else to it for him). Figuring out why Ansom had the spell cast is no major problem. First off he want to make sure that Jillian does not switch sides in the middle of the war and backstab him in some fashion (she is a mercenary). Also its very clear that he wanted to make some thunder under the covers with her. Now there is not a lot of evidence to back up the two spell theory. The strongest evidence being Jillian’s sudden change of heart towards Ansom and the fact that he has an unusual amount of trust in her much of the time. Even when his own sub-commanders where calling her a traitor, Ansom refused to budge, almost like he knew that it could not happen. This is hardly definitive proof though. And we have no proof that Ansom would ever do this sort of thing. But I like it this theory and it does fit in with the "Ansom is the one who took the Arkenpliers from Wanda Theory". If either theory is correct it greatly raises the chances of the other being correct.

But on track. Wanda was down for some time before she became responsive and she still has trouble speaking. Her wardrobe has gone has gone through a shift as well. Most of the times we have seen her before her colors have been white, red and black. After the "spell broke" there has been little white in her clothes and she had taken on more of an "evil croakamancer" look than she has before. Shortly after Wanda becomes functional again Jillian, leading most of the RCC's airborne forces shows up at Gobwin Knob with a large part of the RCC's army behind them. Jillian has most of the other flyers leave to go after Stanley (who had fled GK) and she would meet up with them later. Jillian tires to talk to Wanda, who was controlling GK's air defense spells. Wanda just asked/demanded "why". Jillian seemed very sorry and said that Wanda had gone to far (not admitting to Wanda she had liked it though). Jillian then tried to get Wanda to turn (again), Wanda's response was a flat out "no". Jillian then declared that she would kill Stanley and release Wanda from the spell she clearly was under. One of the Archons came up to Jillian and told her that Wanda was not being controlled by any spells (and was clearly very surprised by that fact as well). Wanda then sets of GK air defense spells and croaks most of the enemy airborne forces still present. But Jillian is not croaked despite having an Archon a few feet away from her get taken out. Wanda clearly, deliberately did not attack Jillian. Jillian takes the few remaining flyers and goes off to catch and croak Stanley, though Wanda is now without any decence against their attacks. Jillian could have very easily croaked Wanda, but did not.

This first encounter between the two women since the "breaking" of the spell shows the current status of the relationship and oddly enough how strong it still is. Both women brazenly ignored their duty to the lords in favor of not killing the other. Wanda not killing a person who is a major threat to Stanley (Jillian), and Jillian for not killing a power croakamancer on the enemy side, after just croaking members of her own forces. And this is when they are very upset with each other! For the moment both women seem to have different opinions on where their relationship stands. Jillian is in love with Ansom (or so she thinks) and clearly there will be no more time spent in the dungeon with Wanda. But she desperately wants to free Wanda from Stanley's "evil grip" and believes there is a spell on Wanda, despite what she was told by the Archon. Wanda seems to have taken a more negative view. I get the impression that she thinks that Jillian is lost to her as Jillian has rejected her (not without some reason though since Jillian "chose" Ansom over her). But Wanda clearly cannot bring herself to harm Jillian though. If Wanda where th evil person some people think she is, Jillian’s rejection should have caused Wanda to kill Jillian.

The relationship between Jillian and Wanda is far from over and despite the current strain, it can be patched up and made stronger. But it's going to take some time and there will have to be some apologies made, information exchanged and forgiveness all around. But it is also in the capacity for either woman to destroy what they still have. To get the healing process going though, a situation may have to arise that puts one of the women in grave danger and only the actions of the other can save her.

Personally, I hope these ladies do get back together as without each other I don't see anything go for either of them in the long run. Without Wanda, Jillian will likely become more reckless in combat and get herself killed. Without Jillian, Wanda will probably die inside and become a monster. But there is a major threat to Jillian and Wanda's relationship other than themselves and it's a huge one. Exposure. If word of the relationship gets out one or both of the women could be in grave danger. If Ansom was to learn that Jillian had given up his attack plan to Wanda (the demonic croakamancer) and that they had been dual classing with each other, he would go nuts. At the very least he would have Jillian executed. More likely he would immediately try to kill her himself for her betrayal. For Wanda if Stanley ever figured out that Wanda was keeping Jillian alive for personal reasons he would see that as a betrayal and disband her without even thinking about it. Fortunately Stanley is as thick as a brick and he has no clue of what Wanda is up to. With Ansom it's a different story. After meeting Wanda in Gobwin Knob, he is going to want to know more about her and the only source of info he has will be Jillian. Jillian certainly will not tell all she knows and Ansom could well pick up on this and that might get him thinking about all the times she was captured. I also find it highly likely that Ansom will send Jillian to croak Wanda not only to eliminate and doubts he has but because Ansom himself will not get near Wanda so long as he has the Arkenpliers. Of course Jillian isn't going to croak Wanda and unless there is a very good excuse Ansom is going to wonder why (even with a good excuse he may still wonder).

Now things would get interesting if Parson finds out. Right now he is suspicious of Wanda on some level. He knows Wanda is keeping things from him, but right now is convinced of her loyalty. But give him a little more information and he will figure out there is some sort of strong relationship between the two, if not what kind of relationship. Parson would not be happy about being kept in the dark, but he wouldn't kill Wanda and would keep other people from finding out if he could. Not only because Wanda is a powerful caster and he sees her as a person, but also Parson should quickly see that he may be able to use Wanda to turn Jillian. Parson may (or may not) play a big part in the two women getting things straightened out. If Jillian is captured again (I don't see it right now) Parson interrogating her or rather playing head games with her should be very interesting to see. One thing that will cause a huge amount of problems for Jillian is if Ansom did destroy Faq and she finds out about it. Or rather if she finds out and believes it. Jillian does have a bit of a problem with her mind being made up and not changing it. But when she does believe it, she will be shattered and there will not be many people that can pick of the pieces (only Jack and Wanda). If Jillian puts her brain in gear and starts to think about why Jack is with Stanley, it might soften the blow a little.

I do want to see Jillian and Wanda get back together. I think they are fairly decent people who have some problems and the best way to solve them would be with each other. We don't know much about Jack yet, but he might have a major part to play. I think they will patch things up but it's going to be a little while. They even may even be enemies for a time. When Jillian and Wanda get things back together it will be different than before (I don't see any dungeon time), but hopefully a stronger, healthier relationship.

[SteveMB]

Quite a lot to chew on! A few random observations:

It seems to me that taking a submissive role to a former Faq subject is part of Jillian's rejection of and rebellion against her status as royal heir.

Wanda's behavior might be influenced by residual Duty toward Jillian as royal heir to Faq; given that her loyalties have not been magically influenced and that it's unclear just how she came to be working for Stanley.

[SteveD]

Your analysis is solid, but I disagree with the conclusions. If Faq had the pliers Jillian would almost certainly know about them already. Additionally, Ansoms clear surprise at learning of Faq in page 82 seems to count against the theory. Although its possible Ansom is deceiving Jillian, that sort of slyness would be very out of character.

[DevilDan]

Your analysis is solid, but I disagree with the conclusions. If Faq had the pliers Jillian would almost certainly know about them already. Additionally, Ansoms clear surprise at learning of Faq in page 82 seems to count against the theory. Although its possible Ansom is deceiving Jillian, that sort of slyness would be very out of character.

As I've said, it's possible for Ansom to be some sort of sinister arch-villain, but the creators would be sure to show at least some sign or foreshadow it in some manner.

[dr pepper]

I think a lot will become clear when we know just who it was that sent Jillian the thinkagram.

[HandofShadows]

Your analysis is solid, but I disagree with the conclusions. If Faq had the pliers Jillian would almost certainly know about them already. Additionally, Ansoms clear surprise at learning of Faq in page 82 seems to count against the theory. Although its possible Ansom is deceiving Jillian, that sort of slyness would be very out of character.

Why is it assumed that Jillian would know that the Arkenpliers had been found in Faq when she was half a continent (or it's equivilent) away playing mercenary? If Jillian had been in Faq when the pliers where found, then yes she would know. But Jillian was away from Faq from long periods so there is no reason to think that Jillian would know about the Arkenpliers.

As for Ansom decieving Jillian he only just found out about Jillian being from Faq. Ansom probably would not talk about where he got the 'pliers before Jillian spilled the beans on her origin because it's an embarrassment. The Arkenpliers did not come to HIM first. All Ansom has to do is follow the same policy he had been following.

[HandofShadows]

As I've said, it's possible for Ansom to be some sort of sinister arch-villain, but the creators would be sure to show at least some sign or foreshadow it in some manner.

The bigotted rant on page 91 wasn't a clue (he was practcialy frothing at the mouth!)? Even the other warlords where more than a little shoocked by it. How about Ansom running away from the Arkenpliers true owner, Wanda? And Ansom does not have to be some sort of sinister arch-villian to do nasty things. In fact attacking Faq to get the Arkenpliers is just the sort of thing Ansom would do as part of this pro-royal bigotry. Especialy his being "decending from those the Titans themselves chose to rule" belief. Someone else having an Arkentool and him not having one is a HUGE blow to his ego and his worldview. To Ansom getting the 'pliers by attacking Faq is just correcting an accident.

[Whispri]

Your analysis is solid, but I disagree with the conclusions. If Faq had the pliers Jillian would almost certainly know about them already. Additionally, Ansoms clear surprise at learning of Faq in page 82 seems to count against the theory. Although its possible Ansom is deceiving Jillian, that sort of slyness would be very out of character.
Jillian not knowing about it is a problem solvable by memory alteration magic, such as the stuff Wanda used on henchman Mung. As for Ansom's surprise, do you notice how he reacts when he hears about one of Banhammer's Casters being sighted in Faq?


As I've said, it's possible for Ansom to be some sort of sinister arch-villain, but the creators would be sure to show at least some sign or foreshadow it in some manner.
Lets see, he waged war against Stanley with no provocation beyond accidental walkovers. He was planning to sack Gobwin's Knob after Stanley's death at which point it would have been harmless. He was prepared to murder helpless enemy wounded. And he wished for a means of resurrecting a slave so he could murder her again and again for the crime of carrying out an order from her Chief Warlord. He's evil, deeply, deeply so.

[Sotharsyl]

Banhammer was a proper royal so if he was attacked by Ansom it wouldn't have been religious "Chosen of the titans" thing it would have been more political look a tiny faction has just discovered a powerfull artifact sort of reasoning.
And this is probably a epileptic tree but what if the King of JetStone knowing what how much his religious his son is sent him away on some mision captured the pliers and then arranged for Ansom to find them.

[HandofShadows]

I think a lot will become clear when we know just who it was that sent Jillian the thinkagram.

Well, let's look at who could have sent the massage. #1 is Ansom. As stated by others, he has not show this kind of deviouseness. And it would require that he knew a great deal about Faq. #2 Charlie. He has the resources and likely the info, but I can't think of a good reason for him to send such a message. Pitting Jillian against Stanley does not seem worth the effort. #3 Faq or someone in it. Really this makes the most sense to me. A panicked call to the only real military unit they have (and a Royal) seems like something someone would do in such a situation.

[SteveMB]

Well, let's look at who could have sent the massage. #1 is Ansom. As stated by others, he has not show this kind of deviouseness. And it would require that he knew a great deal about Faq. #2 Charlie. He has the resources and likely the info, but I can't think of a good reason for him to send such a message. Pitting Jillian against Stanley does not seem worth the effort. #3 Faq or someone in it. Really this makes the most sense to me. A panicked call to the only real military unit they have (and a Royal) seems like something someone would do in such a situation.

Agreed. There's no need to invoke unsupported theories about the message being a fake. The real question is whether the obvious interpretation (large flight of dwagons followed by Jillian becoming a barbarian = Stanley attacked and destroyed Faq) is correct -- that's the most straghtforward conclusion, but there's room for alternative explanations if that's where the story is heading.

[SteveD]

Why is it assumed that Jillian would know that the Arkenpliers had been found in Faq when she was half a continent (or it's equivilent) away playing mercenary? If Jillian had been in Faq when the pliers where found, then yes she would know. But Jillian was away from Faq from long periods so there is no reason to think that Jillian would know about the Arkenpliers.

Because your assuming that Ansom would have learned of this fact before Jillian, and that doesn't stand up on its own. Faq is meant to be a hidden city akin to Gondolin; accessible only by air or tunnel. We still don't really know how it was discovered (or betrayed), or if Ansom ever had any knowledge of it before meeting Jillian.

All we really have to go on is the little info Jillian gave us (which might be faulty) and the motivations of the characters, which don't add up. The cynic in me suspects this is a deliberate device by the writers to keep us guessing until the grand reveal, but they've been fairly good with dropping subtle hints so far (like the bats in the ambush).

[#94]

it occurs to me that IF Ansom had taken Faq, and Wanda was in possession of the Pliars then Ansom could have simply walked up to Wanda and taken them from her at his Leisure.

for the moment i can't remember exactly where it is explained to Parson that if stanley gets croaked they would all freeze in time. whats to say that Banhammer didn't get smoked and Wanda froze along with the rest of Faq, with the exception of Jillian and her forces as they were away from the city.

this would fit within the context of the story without too many WAG's.

i would also like to put forth that even though Ansom hasn't much in the way of deceptive so far, that doesn't preclude him hiding something big.

anyone like to take bets how willing to follow Ansom the rest of the RCC would be if they had known about his rabid ....um Titanism(?) before hand?

[SteveMB]

it occurs to me that IF Ansom had taken Faq, and Wanda was in possession of the Pliars then Ansom could have simply walked up to Wanda and taken them from her at his Leisure.

for the moment i can't remember exactly where it is explained to Parson that if stanley gets croaked they would all freeze in time. whats to say that Banhammer didn't get smoked and Wanda froze along with the rest of Faq, with the exception of Jillian and her forces as they were away from the city.

First, Parson wrote (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0110.html) that GK would "go neutral" because Stanley had no heir. Banhammer had a heir, so that rule doesn't apply. Second, going neutral means that their units freeze and can "do nothing until attacked" (emphasis added). A "neutral" city loses the ability to initiate actions, but units in it can still react when the enemy actually moves in.

[#94]

thats a good point, but i just thought of something.

jillian "found herself a barbarian", shouldn't she have found herself the ruler of Faq?

what exactly determines a city falling? loosing all its military or the death of its leader?

[DevilDan]

thats a good point, but i just thought of something.

jillian "found herself a barbarian", shouldn't she have found herself the ruler of Faq?

what exactly determines a city falling? loosing all its military or the death of its leader?

Jill was a barbarian because she no longer had a home city/kingdom as Faq was under new management, as it were.

A city falls when its garrison is taken over.