PDA

View Full Version : [Variant] THE COMPLETE COMMONER



Fax Celestis
2006-09-26, 12:51 PM
Under this system, adventurers and commoners (that is, PCs and NPCs) are two breeds of the same animal. This system makes some fundamental changes to how commoners and other NPCs work, of which I hope to describe below in detail.

Experience
Commoners gain experience by defeating challenges, just like PCs - except that commoners don't fight mighty dragons, make pacts with terrifying demons, or rescue ancient artifacts on even a semi-regular basis. Their challenges are such things as getting a harvest in before the winter, bartering for a used horse, or crafting something for a pushy adventurer. Since these challenges are much less epic and - usually - less dangerous than those faced by PCs, commoners only gain very small amounts of experience for overcoming them.

Rather than tracking the experience for every small task a commoner completes, experience for commoners is assumed to occur on a constant, gradual basis. Thus, commoners normally gain an additional level every six years, starting from birth. This means that children under 6 are level 1 Commoners, children under 12 are level 2 Commoners, and teenagers are level 3 or 4 Commoners. At third level, a Commoner picks up the Apprentice class ability, which means that they've been apprenticed to a trade. This guideline is intended to simplify determining the current level for new NPCs and tracking the development of recurring NPCs.

The DM may ignore this guideline for exceptional cases where the commoner is likely to have faced harder or more frequent challenges than normal, in the case of gifted individuals (those with the Naturally Talented, Truly Gifted, and Prodigy feats), or in the case of truly one-in-a-million marvels, and may give any NPC as many Commoner and Job class levels as needed for the plot, regardless of the NPC's age.

Gaining Levels
As stated, Commoners gain levels at a rate of one every six years. Unlike adventurers, they do not gain levels in Base Classes or Prestige Classes. Instead, they gain levels in the [[Commoner]] or [[Noble]] classes or in Job Classes. Job Classes are similar to Prestige Classes in that one must meet certain requirements to get into them. However, Job Classes have lower requirements and are designed to represent a profession instead of an ideal the way Base Classes and Prestige Classes do.

For instance, a Commoner can take levels in the Commoner class up to third level and choose Apprentice (Watchman) as his class ability. For his next level, assuming he meets the skill requirements, he can begin taking levels in the Watchman Job Class.

Not all Commoners progress into Job Classes. Some of them remain in the Commoner class. These commoners represent unskilled laborers who are not part of any guild or profession.

Base Classes
Commoner Progression
{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Apprentice
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Hit Die: d4

Starting Gold: 5d4 gp.

Class Skills (4 + Int, x2 at first level): Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Local), Profession

Proficiencies: A commoner is proficient with the dagger and club, and no kinds of armor.

Apprentice: At third level, a commoner chooses a profession for which they will work in for the rest of their lives. For all Profession skill checks that involve the commoner's profession of choice, they receive an insight bonus equal to half their class level.

Noble Progression
{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Noble Heritage
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Hit Die: d4

Starting Gold: 5d4x5 gp.

Class Skills (4 + Int, x2 at first level): Appraise, Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Ride

Proficiencies: A noble is proficient with the dagger, light mace, club, heavy mace, shortspear, spear, light crossbow, and heavy crossbow, and any one martial weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with light armor and shields.

Noble Heritage: At third level, a noble comes into their birthright and is considered a leader of an area. For all social skill checks that involve the noble's heritage, they receive an insight bonus equal to half their class level. In addition, a noble is considered to have the Apprentice class ability in all fields.

Elrosth
2006-09-26, 01:19 PM
I'm a little confused on the wording for Apprentice. I know you can opt out of taking an apprentice class for awhile, or indefinitely, but can you take more than one? Basically, does that ability allow you a slot with which you can associate an apprentice class, or does it give you the ability to multiclass with the apprentice classes?

I know that most commoners stick with a profession most of their lives, but is that because they have to or because it makes sense mechanically? What happens if they need to learn a new trade and start over midway through life? Could they multiclass, or perhaps "burn" the levels they had previously?

Fax Celestis
2006-09-26, 01:34 PM
Aha! Someone caught something I didn't!

Here's the solution:

Apprenticeship [Commoner]
Prerequisites: 6 HD, Commoner level 3
Benefit: you gain an additional apprenticeship of your choice and can begin gaining levels in another Job Class.

Naturally Talented [Commoner]
Prerequisites: Commoner level 3
Benefit: You gain levels at a rate of one every five years.
Normal: You gain levels at a rate of one every six years.

Truly Gifted [Commoner]
Prerequisites: Commoner level 3, Naturally Talented
Benefit: You gain levels at a rate of one every four years.
Normal: You gain levels at a rate of one every six years.

Prodigy [Commoner]
Prerequisites: Commoner level 3, Naturally Talented, Prodigy
Benefit: You gain levels at a rate of one every three years.
Normal: You gain levels at a rate of one every six years.

Hobby [Commoner]
You devote most of your free time to a particular vocation other than your normal profession.
Prerequisite: Job class
Benefit: Choose a skill not on your class list(s); this skill is now always a class skill for you.
Special: You may take this feat more than once, each time applying it to a different skill.

Created [Commoner]
Prerequisites: 6 HD, 3 levels in Commoner, must have noble rank bestowed by one capable of doing so (generally any high ranking noble or royalty)
Benefit: You gain the Noble Heritage class ability.

[hr]

Job Classes
Adept
Requirements: Apprentice (Adept) class ability, Knowledge (Arcana) 2 ranks, Spellcraft 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Spellcasting
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | - | 2/2/-/-/-/-
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | - | 3/2/-/-/-/-
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 3/2/1/-/-/-
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Adept) | 3/2/2/-/-/-
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 4/2/2/-/-/-
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 4/3/2/-/-/-
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 4/3/3/-/-/-
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Adept) | 4/3/3/1/-/-
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - | 4/3/3/2/1/-
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - | 4/3/3/2/1/1
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Local), Profession, Spellcraft

Spells: An adept casts spells from the sorceror/wizard spell list and uses Intelligence as his primary casting statistic. He casts spells with preparation, and only learns new spells upon leveling up. The "spells" column on the table serves for both spells known and spells per day.

An adept does not receive bonus spells per day for a high Intelligence score.

Journeyman: A journeyman adept receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge (Arcana), Profession (Mage), and Spellcraft checks.

Master: A master adept receives an additional +1 bonus on Knowledge (Arcana), Profession (Mage), and Spellcraft checks.

Animal Tender
Requirements: Apprentice (Animal Tender) class ability, Knowledge (Nature) 2 ranks, Animal Handling 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Animal Tender)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Animal Tender)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Profession, Ride, Use Rope

Journeyman: A journeyman animal tender receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Animal Tender), and Handle Animal checks.

Master: A master animal tender receives an additional +1 bonus on Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Animal Tender), and Handle Animal checks.

Architect
Requirements: Apprentice (Architect) class ability, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 3 ranks, Profession (Architect) 3 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Architect)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Architect)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Profession

Journeyman: A journeyman architect receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Profession (Architect), and Craft (Blueprints) checks.

Master: A master architect receives an additional +1 bonus on Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Profession (Architect), and Craft (Blueprints) checks.

Artist
Requirements: Apprentice (Artist) class ability, Craft (any art skill) 4 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special

1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Artist)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Artist)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Forgery, Profession

Journeyman: A journeyman artist receives a +1 bonus on Craft checks related to art.

Master: A master artist receives an additional +1 bonus on Craft checks related to art.

Chemist
Requirements: Apprentice (Chemist) class ability, Knowledge (Arcana) 2 ranks, Craft (Chemistry) 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | Chemist
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Chemist)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Chemist)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Concentration, Craft, Heal, Knowledge (Arcana), Profession, Use Magic Device

Chemist: Despite having no spellcasting ability, a chemist can create alchemical items (like Alchemist's Fire).

Journeyman: A journeyman chemist receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge (Arcana), Profession (Chemist), and Craft (Chemistry) checks.

Master: A master chemist receives an additional +1 bonus on Knowledge (Arcana), Profession (Chemist), and Craft (Chemistry) checks.

Cook
Requirements: Apprentice (Cook) class ability, Craft (Food) 2 ranks, Profession (Cook) 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Cook)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Cook)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Concentration, Craft, Profession, Search

Journeyman: A journeyman cook receives a +1 bonus on Craft (Food), Profession (Cook), and Concentration checks.

Master: A master cook receives an additional +1 bonus on Craft (Food), Profession (Cook), and Concentration checks.

Craftsman
Requirements: Apprentice (Craftsman) class ability, Craft (any) 4 ranks, Profession (Craftsman) 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Craftsman)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Craftsman)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Appraise, Craft, Disable Device, Open Lock, Profession

Journeyman: A journeyman craftsman receives a +1 bonus on Craft and Profession (Craftsman) checks.

Master: A master craftsman receives an additional +1 bonus on Craft and Profession (Craftsman) checks.

Farmer
Requirements: Apprentice (Farmer) class ability, Knowledge (Nature) 2 ranks

{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Farmer)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Farmer)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - [/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Craft, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Farmer), Ride

Journeyman: A journeyman animal tender receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Farmer), and Handle Animal checks.

Master: A master adept receives an additional +1 bonus on Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Farmer), and Handle Animal checks.

Healer
Requirements: Apprentice (Healer) class ability, Heal 4 ranks, Profession (Healer) 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Healer)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Healer)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Concentration, Craft, Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Profession, Survival, Use Magic Device

Journeyman: A journeyman healer receives a +1 bonus on Heal, Profession (Healer), and Knowledge (Nature) checks.

Master: A master healer receives an additional +1 bonus on Heal, Profession (Healer), and Knowledge (Nature) checks.

Innkeeper
Requirements: Apprentice (Innkeeper) class ability, Craft (Food) 2 ranks, Profession (Innkeeper) 2 ranks, Diplomacy 1 rank, Gather Information 1 rank, Intimidate 1 rank
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Innkeeper)
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Innkeeper)
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Profession, Speak Language

Journeyman: A journeyman innkeeper receives a +1 bonus on Craft (Food), Knowledge (Local), and Profession (Innkeeper) checks.

Master: A master adept receives an additional +1 bonus on Craft (Food), Knowledge (Local), and Profession (Innkeeper) checks.

Mason
Requirements: Apprentice (Mason) class ability, Craft (Stonework) 2 ranks, Profession (Mason) 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Mason)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Mason)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Craft, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Profession

Journeyman: A journeyman mason receives a +1 bonus on Craft (Stonework), Profession (Mason), and Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) checks.

Master: A master mason receives an additional +1 bonus on Craft (Stonework), Profession (Mason), and Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) checks.

Merchant
Requirements: Apprentice (Merchant) class ability, Appraise 2 ranks, Forgery 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Merchant)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Merchant)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Forgery, Knowledge (Local), Profession, Sense Motive

Journeyman: A journeyman merchant receives a +1 bonus on Appraise, Forgery, and Profession (Merchant) checks.

Master: A master merchant receives an additional +1 bonus on Appraise, Forgery, and Profession (Merchant) checks.

Officer
Requirements: Noble Heritage class ability, Medium Armor Proficiency, Ride 2 ranks
{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Lieutenant
5th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +5 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +6/1 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Captain
9th | +6/+1 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +7/+2 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -[/table]

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills (2 + Int): Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Martial Lore, Ride, Survival, Swim

Proficiencies: The officer is proficient with all simple weapons, one martial weapon of choice (in addition to the one granted by the noble class), light and medium armors, and shields (but not tower shields).

Lieutenant: A lieutenant receives a +1 bonus on Intimidate, Martial Lore and Ride checks. Additionally, the officer gains a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Mounted Combat, Toughness, or Tower Shield Proficiency.

Captain: A lieutenant receives a +1 bonus on Intimidate, Martial Lore and Ride checks. Additionally, the officer gains a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Leadership, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Mounted Combat, Toughness, or Tower Shield Proficiency.

Priest
Requirements: Apprentice (Priest) class ability, Knowledge (Religion) 3 ranks, Spellcraft 3 ranks, alignment the same as patron deity
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Spellcasting
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | - | 2/2/-/-/-/-
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | - | 3/2/-/-/-/-
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 3/2/1/-/-/-
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Priest) | 3/2/2/-/-/-
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 4/2/2/-/-/-
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 4/3/2/-/-/-
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 4/3/3/-/-/-
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Priest) | 4/3/3/1/-/-
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - | 4/3/3/2/1/-
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - | 4/3/3/2/1/1
[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Concentration, Heal, Knowledge (Religion), Perform (Oratory), Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft

Spells: A priest casts spells from the cleric spell list and uses Wisdom as his primary casting statistic. He casts spells with preparation, and learns new spells upon leveling up as a wizard. The "spells" column on the table serves for both spells known and spells per day.

A priest does not receive bonus spells per day for a high Wisdom score.

Journeyman: A journeyman priest receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge (Religion), Profession (Priest), and Spellcraft checks.

Master: A master priest receives an additional +1 bonus on Knowledge (Religion), Profession (Priest), and Spellcraft checks.

Sage
Requirements: Apprentice (Sage) class ability, Any three Knowledge skills 3 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Sage)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Sage)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Craft (Writing), Decipher Script, Knowledge (All skills purchased individually), Profession

Journeyman: A journeyman sage receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge skills he possesses ranks in.

Master: A master sage receives an additional +1 bonus on Knowledge skills he possesses ranks in.

Sailor
Requirements: Apprentice (Sailor) class ability, Profession (Sailor) 2 ranks, Swim 2 ranks, Use Rope 2 ranks
HD: d6

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Sailor)
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Sailor)
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Climb, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (Nature), Profession, Swim, Use Rope

Journeyman: A journeyman sailor receives a +1 bonus on Profession (Sailor), Swim, and Use Rope checks.

Master: A master sailor receives an additional +1 bonus on Profession (Sailor), Swim, and Use Rope checks.

Scribe
Requirements: Apprentice (Scribe) class ability, Decipher Script 2 ranks, Profession (Scribe) 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Scribe)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Scribe)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Concentration, Craft (Writing), Decipher Script, Forgery, Profession

Journeyman: A journeyman scribe receives a +1 bonus on Decipher Script, Forgery, and Profession (Scribe) checks.

Master: A master scribe receives an additional +1 bonus on Decipher Script, Forgery, and Profession (Scribe) checks.

Smith
Requirements: Apprentice (Smith) class ability, Profession (Smith) 2 ranks, Craft (Metalwork) 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Smith)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Smith)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Appraise, Craft, Profession

Journeyman: A journeyman smith receives a +1 bonus on Profession (Smith), Appraise, and Craft (Metalwork) checks.

Master: A master smith receives an additional +1 bonus on Profession (Smith), Appraise, and Craft (Metalwork) checks.

Soldier
Requirements: Apprentice (Soldier) class ability, one martial weapon proficiency

{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Corporal
5th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +5 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +6/1 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Sergeant
9th | +6/+1 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +7/+2 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - [/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Craft, Jump, Handle Animal, Martial Lore, Profession (Soldier), Profession (Siege Engineer), Ride, Survival, Swim

Proficiencies: The soldier is proficient with all simple weapons, light and mediums armors, and shields (but not tower shields).

Corporal: A corporal receives a +1 bonus on Martial Lore, Profession (Soldier), and either Profession (Siege Engineer) or Ride checks. Once the choice between Profession (Siege Engineer) or Ride has been made, it cannot be changed. Additionally, the soldier gains a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Toughness, or Tower Shield Proficiency.

Sergeant: A sergeant receives a +1 bonus on Martial Lore, Profession (Soldier), and either Profession (Siege Engineer) or Ride checks (this bonus matches the choice made when the soldier gained the Corporal class ability). Additionally, the soldier gains a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Toughness, or Tower Shield Proficiency.

Thief
Requirements: Apprentice (Thief) class ability, Disguise 2 ranks, Forgery 2 ranks, Hide 2 ranks, Move Silently 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Thief)
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Thief)
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Balance, Climb, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge (Local), Move Silently, Open Lock, Profession, Search

Proficiencies: The thief is proficient with the dagger.

Journeyman: A journeyman thief receives a +1 bonus on Hide, Move Silently, and Open Lock checks.

Master: A master thief receives an additional +1 bonus on Hide, Move Silently, and Open Lock checks.

Thug
Requirements: Apprentice (Thug) class ability, Disguise 2 ranks, Intimidate 2 ranks, Hide 2 ranks, Move Silently 2 ranks
HD: d6

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Thug)
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Thug)
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Appraise, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Move Silently, Profession, Search

Proficiencies: The thug is proficient with the dagger and short sword.

Journeyman: A journeyman thug receives a +1 bonus on Appraise, Intimidate, and Search checks.

Master: A master thug receives an additional +1 bonus on Appraise, Intimidate, and Search checks.

Troubadour
Requirements: Apprentice (Troubadour) class ability, Perform 2 ranks, Profession (Troubadour) 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Troubadour)
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Troubadour)
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Diplomacy, Knowledge (Local), Listen, Perform, Profession, Sleight of Hand

Journeyman: A journeyman troubadour receives a +1 bonus on Perform and Profession (Troubadour) checks.

Master: A master sailor receives an additional +1 bonus on Perform and Profession (Troubadour) checks.

Watchman
Requirements: Apprentice (Watchman) class ability, Gather Information 2 ranks, Sense Motive 2 ranks
HD: d6

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Watchman)
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Watchman)
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Listen, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Spot

Proficiencies: The watchman is proficient with the dagger, shortsword, and longsword.

Journeyman: A journeyman watchman receives a +1 bonus on Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), and Sense Motive checks.

Master: A master watchman receives an additional +1 bonus on Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), and Sense Motive checks.

Elrosth
2006-09-26, 02:38 PM
There we go. However, that would mean monstrous commoners would be able to get into two professions sooner than a human.

lol. Actually, I think it would be kinda funny to see a domestic giant, all pimped out with farming(hops) and brewery.

Fax Celestis
2006-09-26, 02:47 PM
lol. Actually, I think it would be kinda funny to see a domestic giant, all pimped out with farming(hops) and brewery.
"Drink Giant's Ale, the only beer that comes in a bottle the size of your horse!"

Zophiel
2006-09-26, 03:07 PM
Is it intentional that Job Classes have no hit dice listed?

Also, do commoners under this system get ability score bonuses and additional feats like PCs do at every 4 and 3 levels, respectively? I imagine so, since you just made one for them.

Elrosth
2006-09-26, 03:08 PM
:D

Also, is there any way to account for differences between commoners in experience, or is it solely by age? Is there any way to have "the greatest blacksmith in Oxlip", or would it just simply be the oldest blacksmith in Oxlip?

Edit: Ah. Missed the DM fiat thing.

Gorbash Kazdar
2006-09-26, 03:20 PM
I think this is an excellent variant. It allows you to create reasonably high level NPC class characters without making them tougher than a party of PCs.

I have a few nitpicks. For nobles, I think you should add "and one martial weapon of the DM's choice" to their proficiencies. I personally think it makes sense for nobles of most cultures & races in D&D to be tied to a particular weapon, in the way that swords were seen as noblemen's weapons in the real world. All martial weapons would likely be too much, but one fits this flavor concept quite well. Also, picking a specific weapon (ie. the longsword) would be too limiting - makes more sense in my mind for dwarves to add the battle axe, for example.

Also, perhaps the Job classes (or at least certain ones) should recieve more than 2+Int skill points per level? I suggest this primarily because most have a Profession or Craft skill they must take, which severely limits their options as to picking up other skills that fit thier job. 3+Int would work quite well, I think.

Do you plan to make modified versions of the warrior and expert classes, or would you remove them? If the later, you'd definitely need some sort of Soldier job class (which may be a good idea anyways - Commoner/Soldiers being your run-of-the-mill footsloggers and militia, while Warrior NPCs represent officers - or at least non-coms - and possibly even champions).


EDIT:
Officer
Requirements: Noble Heritage class ability, Medium Armor Proficiency, Ride 2 ranks

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+0|+0|+0|-
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+0|-
3rd|+2|+1|+1|+1|-
4th|+3|+1|+1|+1|Lieutenant
5th|+3|+1|+1|+1|-
6th|+4|+2|+2|+2|-
7th|+5|+2|+2|+2|-
8th|+6/1|+2|+2|+2|Captain
9th|+6/+1|+3|+3|+3|-
10th|+7/+2|+3|+3|+3|-[/table]

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills (2 + Int): Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Martial Lore, Ride, Survival, Swim

Proficiencies: The officer is proficient with all simple weapons, one martial weapon of choice (in addition to the one granted by the noble class), light and medium armors, and shields (but not tower shields).

Lieutenant: A lieutenant recieves a +1 bonus on Intimidate, Martial Lore and Ride checks. Additionally, the officer gains a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Mounted Combat, Toughness, or Tower Shield Proficiency.

Captain: A lieutenant recieves a +1 bonus on Intimidate, Martial Lore and Ride checks. Additionally, the officer gains a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Leadership, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Mounted Combat, Toughness, or Tower Shield Proficiency.

Soldier
Requirements: Apprentice (Soldier) class ability, one martial weapon proficiency

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|+0|+0|+0|+0|-

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+0|-

3rd|+2|+1|+1|+1|-

4th|+3|+1|+1|+1|Corporal

5th|+3|+1|+1|+1|-

6th|+4|+2|+2|+2|-

7th|+5|+2|+2|+2|-

8th|+6/1|+2|+2|+2|Sergeant

9th|+6/+1|+3|+3|+3|-

10th|+7/+2|+3|+3|+3|-[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Craft, Jump, Handle Animal, Martial Lore, Profession (Soldier), Profession (Siege Engineer), Ride, Survival, Swim

Proficiencies: The soldier is proficient with all simple weapons, light and mediums armors, and shields (but not tower shields).

Corporal: A corporal recieves a +1 bonus on Martial Lore, Profession (Soldier), and either Profession (Siege Engineer) or Ride checks. Once the choice between Profession (Siege Engineer) or Ride has been made, it cannot be changed. Additionally, the soldier gains a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Toughness, or Tower Shield Proficiency.

Sergeant: A sergeant recieves a +1 bonus on Martial Lore, Profession (Soldier), and either Profession (Siege Engineer) or Ride checks (this bonus matches the choice made when the soldier gained the Corporal class ability). Additionally, the soldier gains a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Toughness, or Tower Shield Proficiency.

Fax Celestis
2006-09-26, 03:25 PM
I think this is an excellent variant. *It allows you to create reasonably high level NPC class characters without making them tougher than a party of PCs.Thank you.


I have a few nitpicks. *For nobles, I think you should add "and one martial weapon of the DM's choice" to their proficiencies. *I personally think it makes sense for nobles of most cultures & races in D&D to be tied to a particular weapon, in the way that swords were seen as noblemen's weapons in the real world. *All martial weapons would likely be too much, but one fits this flavor concept quite well. *Also, picking a specific weapon (ie. the longsword) would be too limiting - makes more sense in my mind for dwarves to add the battle axe, for example.
Probably a good idea.


Also, perhaps the Job classes (or at least certain ones) should recieve more than 2+Int skill points per level? *I suggest this primarily because most have a Profession or Craft skill they must take, which severely limits their options as to picking up other skills that fit thier job. *3+Int would work quite well, I think.
Also probably a good idea. Any ones in particular you think need it?


Do you plan to make modified versions of the warrior and expert classes, or would you remove them? *If the later, you'd definitely need some sort of Soldier job class (which may be a good idea anyways - Commoner/Soldiers being your run-of-the-mill footsloggers and militia, while Warrior NPCs represent officers - or at least non-coms - and possibly even champions).
I will remove the expert (since it's been replaced largely by the craftsman, architect, and merchant Job Classes. I imagine I'll probably make a soldier Job Class, and perhaps a nobles-only officer Job Class.


Is it intentional that Job Classes have no hit dice listed?

Also, do commoners under this system get ability score bonuses and additional feats like PCs do at every 4 and 3 levels, respectively? I imagine so, since you just made one for them.
That's an error. They should all have d4 HD. And they do indeed gain feats and skills. Those are intrinsic to the natural process of "getting better at what you do."

Gorbash Kazdar
2006-09-26, 03:53 PM
Thank you.
You're welcome ;) I intend to use it in my games.


Also probably a good idea. Any ones in particular you think need it?
I'd say the Innkeeper, Merchant, Priest, Sage, Sailor, Thief, and Watchman would all be candidates.

The Priest will want Knowledge (Religion), and very probably Perform (Oratory/Sermon), and might want Sense Motive (the latter two should be added to the class' skill list, IMHO) before she even looks at other skills, but Int is likely to be lower, since Wis is her main stat. The Innkeeper and Merchant are both going to need a couple of the social skills and either Appraise or a Craft, which can be a bit tough. The Sage should have a high Int (relatively speaking), but it might make sense to expand his skill points anyways (also, shouldn't Decipher Script and Craft (Writing) be on his list?). The Sailor, Thief, and Watchman all fall under the umbrella of "needing at least 3 skills to be competent at their job," and I think non-casting classes should at least get enough base skill points to cover required skills before Int bonus. Also, shouldn't Search be on the Thief's class skill list?

The Adept, Chemist, and Scribe might bear looking at, but I think they're fine as is. The Adept doesn't need a third skill, and the Chemist and Scribe will likely have higher Int scores to cover the other skills that are nice for them to have - but not required, so they aren't in the same boat as the Sailor et al.


I will remove the expert (since it's been replaced largely by the craftsman, architect, and merchant Job Classes. I imagine I'll probably make a soldier Job Class, and perhaps a nobles-only officer Job Class.
Figured as much. I did a Soldier and an Officer above.


That's an error. They should all have d4 HD. And they do indeed gain feats and skills. Those are intrinsic to the natural process of "getting better at what you do."
Perhaps the Soldier and Officer should have d6? I figure those two Job classes should be tougher, given that they're the ones PCs are most likely to fight with (also, the most likely to be in fights anyways). Might consider the same for the Thug and the Watchman as well, for the same reasons.

EDIT: An additional feat idea just came to me.

CREATED [Commoner]
Prerequisites: 6 HD, 3 levels in Commoner, must have noble rank bestowed by one capable of doing so (generally any high ranking noble or royalty)
Benefit: You gain the Noble Heritage class ability.

Fax Celestis
2006-09-26, 04:08 PM
I'd say the Innkeeper, Merchant, Priest, Sage, Sailor, Thief, and Watchman would all be candidates.

The Priest will want Knowledge (Religion), and very probably Perform (Oratory/Sermon), and might want Sense Motive (the latter two should be added to the class' skill list, IMHO) before she even looks at other skills, but Int is likely to be lower, since Wis is her main stat. *The Innkeeper and Merchant are both going to need a couple of the social skills and either Appraise or a Craft, which can be a bit tough. *The Sage should have a high Int (relatively speaking), but it might make sense to expand his skill points anyways (also, shouldn't Decipher Script and Craft (Writing) be on his list?). *The Sailor, Thief, and Watchman all fall under the umbrella of "needing at least 3 skills to be competent at their job," and I think non-casting classes should at least get enough base skill points to cover required skills before Int bonus. *Also, shouldn't Search be on the Thief's class skill list?

The Adept, Chemist, and Scribe might bear looking at, but I think they're fine as is. *The Adept doesn't need a third skill, and the Chemist and Scribe will likely have higher Int scores to cover the other skills that are nice for them to have - but not required, so they aren't in the same boat as the Sailor et al.
Good calls. Let me do some edits.


Figured as much. *I did a Soldier class above.

Perhaps the Soldier and Officer should have d6? *I figure those two Job classes should be tougher, given that they're the ones PCs are most likely to fight with (also, the most likely to be in fights anyways). *Might consider the same for the Thug and the Watchman as well, for the same reasons.
That's probably a good choice. The only qualms I have with your Officer and Soldier classes are the ubiquitous Knowledge (Tactics). Perhaps replacing them with Martial Lore, which is an existing skill and which was introduced in the Tome of Battle?

kanachi
2006-09-26, 04:10 PM
This is an excellent idea and I may well use this when I DM.

I think you have however rather limited the scope of this by saying that NPCs gain level every 5 years. Many young people can outstrip their elders at an early age. For example a young artist may produce work which can change the world at a very young age while an elderly artist may simply sell so-so paintings at a stall until the day they die.

I would therefore recommend creating three templates which can be added to these NPC classes you have created. Fundamentally these templates allow the DM to represent individuals with an element of natural talent in their profession by reducing the yearly increments required to level up.

Naturally talented: levels up every 4 years.

Truly Gifted: levels up every 3 years.

Prodigy: levels up every 2 years.

I would also state that an individual only gains levels after the age of 5.

Tiger Woods, for example, is a very good golfer but at the age of 5 he was still only a level 1 golfer, he could however be considered naturally talented (or even a prodigy) and thus would achieve a high NPC level at relatively young age.

I also think its important to examine the existence of a level 0 which exists beneath the mechanics of all classes PC and NPC. A level 1 artist is still an artist which a level 0 is someone so may simply enjoy doodling or drawing (and may even show some skill) yet is currently unable to make any profit (emotionally, physically of fiscally) from their workings. Iíve probably not explained this last point very well but hopefully you get the idea.

Anyway I really like this idea, itís so simple and effective that Iím surprised its not already published somewhere.

Fax Celestis
2006-09-26, 04:23 PM
I would therefore recommend creating three templates which can be added to these NPC classes you have created. Fundamentally these templates allow the DM to represent individuals with an element of natural talent in their profession by reducing the yearly increments required to level up.

Naturally talented: levels up every 4 years.

Truly Gifted: levels up every 3 years.

Prodigy: levels up every 2 years.
Added feats reflecting this idea to the third post.


I would also state that an individual only gains levels after the age of 5.

Tiger Woods, for example, is a very good golfer but at the age of 5 he was still only a level 1 golfer, he could however be considered naturally talented (or even a prodigy) and thus would achieve a high NPC level at relatively young age.

I also think its important to examine the existence of a level 0 which exists beneath the mechanics of all classes PC and NPC. A level 1 artist is still an artist which a level 0 is someone so may simply enjoy doodling or drawing (and may even show some skill) yet is currently unable to make any profit (emotionally, physically of fiscally) from their workings. Iíve probably not explained this last point very well but hopefully you get the idea.
Thing is, you can't get into a job class until after level 3.

Gorbash Kazdar
2006-09-26, 04:24 PM
Don't forget that Fax described the 5 year rule is a general rubric and that a DM should feel free to accelerate or decelerate this as he or she sees fit (to account for prodigies, for example).

Also, for a "0-level" character, most Craft skills (as well as many others) can be made untrained - which would, to my mind, be equivalent to your doodling example. And don't forget that a Commoner could take ranks in any Craft he or she wanted to, so not all Artists are actually in that Job class (though most would be).

For Fax: Should Commoners actually have Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), or is that in error? IMHO, while a Commoner might know who his lord is, who the other local lords are, and who the king or queen is, the actual Knowledge skill is for much more in-depth Knowledge.

Also, how about a Farmer job class, seeing as how Commoner has been broken down so much anyways? Less for your average self-supporting subsistence farmer as much as for someone who owns a large ranch, plantation, commercial farm, or the like and most likely has a number of Commoners and other Job classes working for them, or perhaps someone who is really, really good at growing crops.

Farmer
Requirements: Apprentice (Farmer) class ability, Knowledge (Nature) 2 ranks

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|+0|+0|+0|+0|-

2nd|+0|+0|+0|+0|-

3rd|+0|+1|+1|+1|-

4th|+0|+1|+1|+1|Journeyman (Farmer)

5th|+0|+1|+1|+1|-

6th|+0|+2|+2|+2|-

7th|+0|+2|+2|+2|-

8th|+0|+2|+2|+2|Master (Farmer)

9th|+0|+3|+3|+3|-

10th|+0|+3|+3|+3|-[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Craft, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Farmer), Ride

Journeyman: A journeyman animal tender receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Farmer), and Handle Animal checks.

Master: A master adept receives an additional +1 bonus on Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Farmer), and Handle Animal checks.

EDIT:

That's probably a good choice. The only qualms I have with your Officer and Soldier classes are the ubiquitous Knowledge (Tactics). Perhaps replacing them with Martial Lore, which is an existing skill and which was introduced in the Tome of Battle?
I though I'd seen Knowledge (Tactics) in Complete Warrior, but I remembered incorrectly, it seems. I'll switch to Martial Lore, then.

Zophiel
2006-09-26, 04:26 PM
That's an error. They should all have d4 HD. And they do indeed gain feats and skills. Those are intrinsic to the natural process of "getting better at what you do."

At first I was going to suggest giving Commoners d4 instead of the d6 HD you've got them listed as, but I suppose it makes sense for people with Job Classes to be a little softer, since ostensibly they're leading more comfortable lives. There are exceptions, but then again if someone wants to be a little tougher, there are feats (or Con bonuses) to help with that.

However, since these people are trained individuals, I would second Gorbash's proposal to give them more skill points. It makes good sense, both mechanically and thematically, especially since it gives these characters the ability to dump a skill point here and there in stuff like Knowledge (Local), or a hobby skill, to give the characters a little depth where desired.

Gralamin
2006-09-26, 04:47 PM
Wow, I like good job.

so a truly gifted smith would work like this right? (just want to make sure I understand this right, see below)
At age 15 he gains truly gifted and Smith. after 20 years he's a level 10 smith/3 commoner (35 years old). After 14 more years (age 49) he's a level 10 smith/10 commoner. Where does he go after this? or has he hit his max potential?

kanachi
2006-09-26, 05:04 PM
Thing is, you can't get into a job class until after level 3.

Iím so-so on this.

Not all professions require a long life experience to get into, a thief for example can be a child of 10 years old who was born into thievery out of necessity and may therefore be quite skilled. A gymnast (I know you've not got a class for one here but its still a profession of interest none the less) is also better young than old so levelling by years of experience my not be applicable in the same way to all classes.

Another issue you might want to look at is that after taking 65 years to reach level 10 of your profession (15 to become a lvl 3 commoner and 50 for a level 10 "whatever") I doubt you will be improving your fortitude or reflex saves.

A child can be born into farming and many shepardís were very young indeed yet likely quite skilled at what they did.

I know you have said that the 5 year rule is optional I just think that offering the feats you made at level 1 (upon creation) may help you better represent the mechanics your putting forward within the context of reality.

Just an idea anyway.

Gorbash Kazdar
2006-09-26, 05:05 PM
Possible feat idea:

HOBBY [Commoner]
You devote most of your free time to a particular vocation other than your normal profession.
Prerequisite: Job class
Benefit: Choose a skill not on your class list(s); this skill is now always a class skill for you.
Special: You may take this feat more than once, each time applying it to a different skill.

My thought was that, until an NPC has a Job Class, he or she doesn't have a true Profession, so you also wouldn't have a need (rule wise) to designate a hobby for that NPC. Alternatively, perhaps the Apprentice class ability should be the pre-req?

[hr]
Don't forget that having 15 class levels (meaning 18 ranks in a skill) is very good. Assuming a reasonable +2 ability mod by that point, plus the Apprentice benefits and Job class benefits, and likely Skill Focus along the way, you're talking about a +32 to the skill! Even taking 10, you can hit DC 42, which the PHB describes as "nearly impossible" in difficulty. It should take a great deal of effort and time to get that good at something.

As for one-in-a-million prodigies, I think it's more than reasonable to assume that you just have to throw the rules out the window for them, and make them whatever level makes sense for their skill. Plus, they probably have better than average stats, and more opportunities to gain experience (IMHO, conducting a grand orchestra in front of the king & queen should grant you some specific extra XP).

In fact, perhaps the explanation for commoner XP gains should be as follows:


Commoners gain experience by defeating challenges, just like PCs - except that commoners don't fight mighty dragons, make pacts with terrifying demons, or rescue ancient artifacts on even a semi-regular basis. Their challenges are such things as getting a harvest in before the winter, bartering for a used horse, or crafting something for a pushy adventurer. Since these challenges are much less epic and - usually - less dangerous than those faced by PCs, commoners only gain very small amounts of experience for overcoming them.

Rather than tracking the experience for every small task a commoner completes, experience for commoners is assumed to occur on a constant, gradual basis. Thus, commoners normally gain an additional level every five years, starting from birth. This means that children under 5 are level 1 Commoners, children under 10 are level 2 Commoners, and teenagers are level 3 or 4 Commoners. At third level, a Commoner picks up the Apprentice class ability, which means that they've been apprenticed to a trade. This guideline is intended to simplify determining the current level for new NPCs and tracking the development of recurring NPCs.

The DM may ignore this guideline for exceptional cases where the commoner is likely to have faced harder or more frequent challenges than normal, in the case of gifted individuals (those with the Naturally Talented, Truly Gifted, and Prodigy feats), or in the case of truly one-in-a-million marvels, and may give any NPC as many Commoner and Job class levels as needed for the plot, regardless of the NPC's age.

Fax Celestis
2006-09-26, 06:50 PM
I like that. I'll add that in. Farmer looks good too.

And good call on the Nobility and Royalty thing; that was the original intent, but that is simply passing information.

Now, as for the example of the old blacksmith, at 10 smith/10 commoner, he's nigh-epic. So, perhaps he's that legendary smith that can smith starmetal, or something.

Also, I'm trying to figure a way where PC-class levels would overwrite Commoner/Job Class levels, but can't seem to work it through my brain. Ideas?

kanachi
2006-09-26, 08:25 PM
Commoners gain experience by defeating challenges, just like PCs - except that commoners don't fight mighty dragons, make pacts with terrifying demons, or rescue ancient artifacts on even a semi-regular basis. Their challenges are such things as getting a harvest in before the winter, bartering for a used horse, or crafting something for a pushy adventurer. Since these challenges are much less epic and - usually - less dangerous than those faced by PCs, commoners only gain very small amounts of experience for overcoming them.

Rather than tracking the experience for every small task a commoner completes, experience for commoners is assumed to occur on a constant, gradual basis. Thus, commoners normally gain an additional level every five years, starting from birth. This means that children under 5 are level 1 Commoners, children under 10 are level 2 Commoners, and teenagers are level 3 or 4 Commoners. At third level, a Commoner picks up the Apprentice class ability, which means that they've been apprenticed to a trade. This guideline is intended to simplify determining the current level for new NPCs and tracking the development of recurring NPCs.

The DM may ignore this guideline for exceptional cases where the commoner is likely to have faced harder or more frequent challenges than normal, in the case of gifted individuals (those with the Naturally Talented, Truly Gifted, and Prodigy feats), or in the case of truly one-in-a-million marvels, and may give any NPC as many Commoner and Job class levels as needed for the plot, regardless of the NPC's age.


that works for me :)

some other common classes you may want to make are...

Hunter

Performer (Actor, gymnast and the like)

Money handler (anything from accountants to bank managers and tax collectors)

Lawyer

Judge

Miner

Diplomat (who could probably double as a politician)

Elrosth
2006-09-26, 08:46 PM
For the overwriting commoner levels, how about this.

When (and if) a commoner can take a PC level, he can choose to burn up a level of his previous commoner class to do so. The more ingrained in their simple lifestyle they are, the harder it is to teach them the new skills required for the class. And, when they devote themselves so feverently to overcoming this difficulty learning, they tend to forget some of their previous teachings in the process.

When taking up a level in a PC class, the commoner must gain enough experience to go up a level, as normal. At this point, they may choose to burn a level of their commoner class in a way that makes it easier for them to continue learning their new path, but also makes them forget their commoner experience.

How this works: First, the level is taken off completely. All hit points, skill points, feats ability score bonuses, etc gained through this level are now gone. Furthermore, the character is treated as one level lower. In fact, they are at the same level they were before taking the PC class, but now they can have shiny PC abilities. Next, they level up as the PC class as normal, gaining feats, skill points, ability score bonuses, hit points etc, as normal for their current level (eg: not the level it would be if they hadn't gotten rid of the commoner class). Then, they gain the amount of experience necessary to put them 1/10th of the way to the next level as an additional bonus from burning their level.

What this amounts to is a character with the same stats as they would've had if they'd picked up the PC class one level earier, only they have a little more experience than they would've otherwise.

Dervag
2006-10-14, 01:40 AM
Maybe you should make the amount of time required to gain each level increase as a function of level. Ignore the time taken to reach 1st level, and say that you have a 1st level commoner at 5. Them make them a Commoner 2 at 8 and a Commoner 3 at 12 (which was a not an unusual age to be apprenticed in the Middle Ages).

The pattern is that each new level takes X+1 years to reach, where X is the level you're shooting for. The result is that if you live out your Biblical three score and ten at this progression rate, you'll be just short of 11th level.

Then reduce that time for prodigies (maybe just let them take 4 or 3 years to earn each level up to some cap, after which progression is normal).

This makes sense given the D&D XP system. The amount of XP required to level up increases linearly as a function of level. Therefore, the amount of time that an NPC should have to train away to reach a level should increase more or less linearly as a function of level.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-16, 11:25 AM
Casts true threadurrection. Updates, and inclusion of Gorby's classes. The most major change is the fundamental alteration of rate of acceleration from 5 years to 6.

Neek
2007-02-16, 12:55 PM
This is a nice bolt-on, but a few things. It's mainly human centric, and not all races age the same. An elven commoner that's 100 years old is not going to be a greater level than a human at 20--which is about the starting age of PCs anyhow. Either a little chart to show how a race'd progress, or perhaps a different way of calculating level (rather than age alone) would be nice.

Perhaps something like a Commoner CL table that has a series of challenges that a commoner would have to go through and thusly provide a history of your character and provides XP to level them up. I can't think of much right now, sitting in between classes...

Fax Celestis
2007-02-16, 12:59 PM
That's a good point. I'll see what I can do about expanding the age-thing to other races.

Iituem
2007-02-16, 02:24 PM
Although my commoner system works a touch differently (someday I'll get around to posting it), particularly in that it tends to progress at a rate of a level per year if they are in circumstances allowing for growth (a prodigy will only be a farmer if he never leaves the farm and if the farm remains small), I have a couple of bits from it that could apply here.

Given that commoners do not generally advance through monster-killing xp, they instead advance based on their achievements. In effect, they gain solely through roleplaying XP. I have attempted to categorise these XP awards as follows:

Social: Social achievements relate to one's friends, status within the community and contributions to the community. Making good relations with the people in your area will earn minor experience, although achieving positions of status or leadership will reap larger rewards. Contributing to the community in some way (helping out with a public work for less or no pay, providing stories for children, helping build a new aqueduct for the town) earn more experience yet. This may also be representative of social climbing and position.

Personal: Personal achievements vary from character to character. Generally, the highest rewards come from achieving one's personal goals. If a character sets himself a goal to, say, become the best arm-wrestler in the village, he will earn experience for reaching that goal. If he is determined to be the best blacksmith in the land, he will earn a lot of experience for reaching it because of its difficulty (though he will earn occupational experience along the way). A character determined to reach spiritual peace would similarly gain benefits. Achieving states of happiness or contentment grant benefits, as well as significant personal events such as first love, marriage and childbirth. Generally, the more difficult or important an achievement, the better the reward.

Occupational: Occupational achievements come as a result of experience on the job. Rewards are few and far between, though are usually significant as a result. Typically they come at defining moments; obtaining an apprenticeship, completing an apprenticeship, constructing your first masterpiece, obtaining membership (and master status) within a guild and so on.

Epic: Epic is something of a misnomer. Epic achievements are achievements above and beyond what might be expected of the average commoner, even if they are not world-shattering. Rescuing people from a house fire, talking down the local bandits from raiding the town (killing or capturing them would earn adventuring xp), building a new temple to your patron god. All these things would be considered epic for a commoner and as such earn experience, often at a much higher rate than for other achievements.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-16, 02:45 PM
Although my commoner system works a touch differently (someday I'll get around to posting it), particularly in that it tends to progress at a rate of a level per year if they are in circumstances allowing for growth (a prodigy will only be a farmer if he never leaves the farm and if the farm remains small), I have a couple of bits from it that could apply here.

Given that commoners do not generally advance through monster-killing xp, they instead advance based on their achievements. In effect, they gain solely through roleplaying XP. I have attempted to categorise these XP awards as follows:

Social: Social achievements relate to one's friends, status within the community and contributions to the community. Making good relations with the people in your area will earn minor experience, although achieving positions of status or leadership will reap larger rewards. Contributing to the community in some way (helping out with a public work for less or no pay, providing stories for children, helping build a new aqueduct for the town) earn more experience yet. This may also be representative of social climbing and position.

Personal: Personal achievements vary from character to character. Generally, the highest rewards come from achieving one's personal goals. If a character sets himself a goal to, say, become the best arm-wrestler in the village, he will earn experience for reaching that goal. If he is determined to be the best blacksmith in the land, he will earn a lot of experience for reaching it because of its difficulty (though he will earn occupational experience along the way). A character determined to reach spiritual peace would similarly gain benefits. Achieving states of happiness or contentment grant benefits, as well as significant personal events such as first love, marriage and childbirth. Generally, the more difficult or important an achievement, the better the reward.

Occupational: Occupational achievements come as a result of experience on the job. Rewards are few and far between, though are usually significant as a result. Typically they come at defining moments; obtaining an apprenticeship, completing an apprenticeship, constructing your first masterpiece, obtaining membership (and master status) within a guild and so on.

Epic: Epic is something of a misnomer. Epic achievements are achievements above and beyond what might be expected of the average commoner, even if they are not world-shattering. Rescuing people from a house fire, talking down the local bandits from raiding the town (killing or capturing them would earn adventuring xp), building a new temple to your patron god. All these things would be considered epic for a commoner and as such earn experience, often at a much higher rate than for other achievements.

The problem there (and somethign my gradual, set xp gain for commoners gets around) is that it requires a good deal of bookkeeping on the DM's part, or ad-hoc-ing a random amount later down the line.

Neek
2007-02-16, 03:10 PM
Which is why I suggested having a random table that you can just roll up. Or give them a stack of CLxs to make them the level you need them to be. That would solve the problem of too much bookkeeping (for middle age, roll d100 for Table 1: CL1, roll one d100 for Table 2: CL2, &c.) Just that you'd have to set up the tables first. Which might be more detail than you're interested in.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-16, 03:13 PM
Which is why I suggested having a random table that you can just roll up. Or give them a stack of CLxs to make them the level you need them to be. That would solve the problem of too much bookkeeping (for middle age, roll d100 for Table 1: CL1, roll one d100 for Table 2: CL2, &c.) Just that you'd have to set up the tables first. Which might be more detail than you're interested in.

It's not more detail than I'm interested in, it's just that I'm not sure if it'd be applicable for this style of NPC-XP.

However, I may set up random feat choice tables, which include mostly skill-boosters and the Commoner feats listed above.

Iituem
2007-02-16, 06:06 PM
Oh, no. I meant those as bonus events in addition to your level/6 year progression. If you wanted, you could just roll a random chance per year that one of those events happens and give them bonus XP (maybe reduce a year 'til their next level).

Gorbash Kazdar
2007-02-17, 10:51 PM
Hey, I remember this thread.

Anyways, to hop back into the discussion, I think Iituem's idea makes a lot of sense. It's similar to what I was alluding to with the example of conducting before the King & Queen quite some time ago, but spelled out much more clearly.

Also, it occurs to me that the only Noble-only class currently is the Officer; perhaps a few more would be in order. I've done up a Courtier, a Diplomat, a Councilor, and a Magistrate; of the four, the Courtier is the one that probably could use more work.

Courtier
Requirements: Noble Heritage class ability, Bluff 3 ranks, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 3 ranks
{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Forsyth
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Favorite
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -[/table]

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills (3 + Int): Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Perform, Ride, Sense Motive

Forsyth: A forsyth receives a +1 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), and Sense Motive checks. Additionally, a forsyth can gain either Weapon Focus with any one martial weapon he is proficient with, or the Persuasive feat, as a bonus feat.

Favorite: A favorite receives a +1 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), and Sense Motive checks. Additionally, a favorite gains a hanger-on of his own, in a fashion similar to the cohort granted by the Leadership feat. This hanger-on cannot be higher level than two levels lower than the favorite, and must be of an NPC class (or combination of NPC classes).

Diplomat
Requirements: Noble Heritage class ability, Negotiator feat, must speak at least one language in addition to automatic racial languages, Diplomacy 3 ranks, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 3 ranks
{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Envoy
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Ambassador
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -[/table]

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills (3 + Int): Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Sense Motive, Speak Language

Envoy: An envoy receives a +1 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks. Additionally, when she makes a rushed Diplomacy check, the penalty for an envoy is reduced by 2 (from -10 to -8).

Ambassador: An ambassador receives a +1 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks. Additionally, when she makes a rushed Diplomacy check, the penalty for an ambassador is reduced by 3 (from -8, due to the envoy ability, to -5).

Councilor
Requirements: Noble Heritage class ability, Appraise 3 ranks, Profession 3 ranks
{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Aide
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Minister
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -[/table]

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills (3 + Int): Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Profession

Aide: An aide receives a +1 bonus on Appraise and Knowledge (Local) checks and on checks with any one Profession skill (this choice may not be changed later).

Minister: A minister receives a +1 bonus on Appraise and Knowledge (Local) checks and on checks with the Profession skill chosen for the Aide ability.

Magistrate
Requirements: Noble Heritage class ability, Gather Information 3 ranks, Knowledge (Local) 3 ranks, Sense Motive 3 ranks
{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Judge
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Justice
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -[/table]

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills (3 + Int): Diplomacy, Forgery, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Sense Motive

Judge: A judge receives a +1 bonus on Gather Information and Sense Motive checks and on Knowledge (Local) checks related to laws.

Justice: A justice receives a +1 bonus on Gather Information and Sense Motive checks and on Knowledge (Local) checks related to laws.

Chavik
2007-02-19, 12:14 AM
Just one thing which i noticed is the lack of decent weapon proficiencies. Whenever i set up a horde of say rioting villagers they seem to gravitate towards the more stereotypical weapons: axes, bows, hammers, pitchfork (trident)..etc... a commoner is definitely able to use more weapons then just daggers and clubs. However you could make proficiencies according to job class... scythe, sickle and pitchfork for farmer, bows for hunter, and what-have-you.

other than that i absolutely love it. *yoinked*

Inyssius Tor
2007-02-19, 09:56 AM
In order to be proficient with a weapon, you need to train with it and be skilled at using it in combat. A farmer... can cut wheat with his scythe. He is trained in the arts of wheat-cutting and this is reflected by his Profession: Farmer skill. I could see giving the Hunter WP: bow, but... really, I can't find a Hunter class given here.

Gorbash Kazdar
2007-02-19, 10:23 AM
I agree with Inyssius - your average unruly mob of ignorant peasants may have a number of sharp implements to stick or slash you with, but they usually aren't going to be very effective with them individually. Sure, a militia member or two might be semi-skilled with a weapon, but I'd simply hand out the SWP feat, or an MWP here and there to represent that. Remember, non-proficient doesn't mean you can't use it, just that you're not any good at using it.

And as for a hunter job class... ask, and ye shall receive!

Hunter
Requirements: Apprentice (Hunter) class ability, Survival 3 ranks, Track feat
HD: d6

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | -
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | Journeyman (Hunter)
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | -
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +2 | -
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | Master (Hunter)
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +3 | -
[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Search, Spot, Survival, Use Rope

Proficiencies: The hunter is proficient with the all simple weapons, handaxes, and shortbows.

Journeyman: A journeyman hunter receives a +1 bonus on Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nature), and Survival checks.

Master: A master hunter receives an additional +1 bonus on Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nature), and Survival checks.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-19, 01:58 PM
This is what we've already got.
Listing of Created:
Adept
Animal Tender
Architect
Artist
Chemist
Cook
Councilor
Courtier
Craftsman
Diplomat
Farmer
Healer
Hunter
Initiate
Innkeeper
Magistrate
Mason
Merchant
Officer
Priest
Psychic
Sage
Sailor
Scribe
Smith
Soldier
Thief
Thug
Troubadour
Watchman

These are some I'd like to make but am not sure how to do.
Listing of Desired:
Ascetic - monk-like
Beggar
Caravaneer
Eldritchan - warlock-like
Fisherman
Lawyer
Magician
Miner
Money Handler
Performer
Porter
Shadowtapper - shadowcaster-like
Shaman
Surgeon
Traveler
Truenamer Acolyte - truenamer-like
Witch Doctor
Woodsman

Fax Celestis
2007-02-19, 03:24 PM
Initiate
Requirements: Apprentice (Initiate) class ability, Martial Lore 3 ranks, one martial maneuver
HD: d6

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Maneuvers | Stances
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | - | 1 | 0
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | - | 1 | 0
3rd | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 1 | 1
4th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 1 | 1
5th | +3 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 2 | 1
6th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 2 | 1
7th | +5 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 2 | 2
8th | +6/+1 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 2 | 2
9th | +6/+1 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - | 3 | 2
10th | +7/+2 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - | 3 | 2[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Spot, Survival + relevant discipline ability

Proficiencies: The initiate is proficient with all weapons relevant to his chosen discipline and light armor.

Maneuvers: An initiate knows a small number of martial maneuvers. He knows maneuvers from only one discipline, and can recover one maneuver as a full-round action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. His Initiator Level is equal to 1/2 his Job Class level.

Stances: An initiate knows a small number of martial stances from the same discipline he knows maneuvers.

Psychic
Requirements: Apprentice (Psychic) class ability, Knowledge (Psionics) 3 ranks, Psicraft 3 ranks, Autohypnosis 2 ranks
HD: d4

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | PP/Day | Powers Known | Max Power Level
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | - | 0 | 1 | 1st
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | - | 1 | 2 | 1st
3rd | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 3 | 3 | 2nd
4th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 5 | 3 | 2nd
5th | +0 | +1 | +1 | +1 | - | 7 | 4 | 3rd
6th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 11 | 5 | 3rd
7th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 15 | 6 | 4th
8th | +0 | +2 | +2 | +2 | - | 19 | 6 | 4th
9th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - | 23 | 7 | 5th
10th | +0 | +3 | +3 | +3 | - | 27 | 8 | 5th[/table]

Class Skills (3 + Int): Autohypnosis, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (Psionics), Profession, Psicraft.

Proficiencies: The psychic is proficient with no weapons or armor.

Powers: A psychic knows a small number of psionic powers. These are drawn from the universal or telepath lists and are manifested as a psion manifests.

Yakk
2007-02-19, 03:36 PM
Commoner

HD: d4
Skills: 4+int bonus per level
Skill list: Any 3 skills using one attribute and 2 skills from two different attributes.

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Primary/Secondary/Tetriary
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2/+1/+0
2nd | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +3/+1/+0
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +4/+2/+0
4th | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +5/+2/+1
5th | +1 | +1 | +1 | +1 | +6/+3/+1
6th | +2 | +2 | +2 | +2 | +7/+3/+1
7th | +2 | +2 | +2 | +2 | +8/+4/+1
8th | +2 | +2 | +2 | +2 | +9/+4/+2
9th | +3 | +3 | +3 | +3 | +10/+5/+2
10th | +3 | +3 | +3 | +3 | +11/+5/+2
[/table]

Pick 2 primary, 2 secondary from the following list:
HP, Combat, Will saves, Fort saves, Reflex saves, Skill talent (per skill), Armor

Pick 2 tetriary from the following list:
HP, Skill talent (per skill), Combat

Combat: You are proficient in a number of weapons equal to the column value, and gain 1 column worse bonus to your BaB.

Armor: You gain proficiency with 1 piece of armor per point in the column. In addition, you gain 1 column less enhancement bonus to your armor. This stacks with dodge bonus's and mundane armor bonus's, but nothing else.

Skill Talent: You gain this bonus to your skill. This can take you over your cap.

HP: You gain twice the column value in bonus HP. Congradulations, you are tough.

...

So, let's build a blacksmith.

Primary:
Skill Talent: Craft(Blacksmith)
Fort. Saves

Secondary:
Combat
HP

Tetriary:
Armor
Skill Talent: Animal Handling

L 5 Blacksmith:
32+int*8 skill points.
20+con*5 HP.
Can use 3 weapons.
+2 BaB.
+6 Blacksmith skill (so 14+stat Craft(Blacksmith))
+1 Animal Handling skill (so 9+stat Animal Handling)
+1 to all saves.

Not a class that any adventurer would be interested in, but he's a better smith than any L 5 adventure class could hope to be.

L 5 Combatant:
Primary: Combat, HP
Secondary: Armor, Fort Saves
Tetriary: Profession(Guard), Sense Motive

+4 BaB
26+Con*5 HP
Knows 3 pieces of armor and 5 weapons.
+1 AC on the armor in question.
+1 Profession(Guard) skill, +1 Sense Motive
+2 Fort save, +1 other saves.

EffigyOfFaith
2007-02-23, 11:36 AM
I really like this system. I think that it is great way to flesh out and give some significance to the more mundane members of d20 society. My only real problem is that I think that the classes need something more to make them each a bit more unique. For example instead of merely having journeyman, and master give skill bonus maybe the could give more interesting abilities. Some could be: A decrease in the raw material GP investment (ex. a master smith or chef can do more with less than the less skilled), A decrease in crafting time (this is especially useful when make MW items). Iím at a loss at the moment for more ideas but you get the idea Iím sure.

Cheers

elliott20
2007-02-23, 12:20 PM
one comment on the experience progression, I think the best way to do this is simply assign living throughout a year a challenge rating.

I figured, if we make just living a normal life an encounter, with a CR of 1, (and half the xp since it's a none-life threatening encounter) you gain about 150 xp a year, if you live your entire life without changing your patterns and don't take any risks.

Neek
2007-02-23, 12:39 PM
If you have an Elf at 125 (starting age), he gains 18,750. We might want to think about that. The idea's good, though--have adults start at level 1, and time over racial multipler x 150 xp should do the trick.

An elf can live up to 750 years, and a human 90. That means an Elf ages around 8 or 9 times slower than a human (we can call it an even 10 to make it easier, if you want). This means that where a human would gain 125 xp in one year, it'd take about 8 years for an Elf to gain that much.

So, 1 year / 8 x 150 xp = 18.75 xp/year. This makes a little more sense.

*whips up a table*

Here's our aging table:

{table=head]Race|Age Multipler

Human|x1

Dwarf|x5

Elf|x8

Gnome|x5.5

Half-elf|x2

Half-orc|x.75

Halfling|x2[/table]

Gorbash Kazdar
2007-02-23, 01:09 PM
The same multiplier should work on the "level per X years" concept as well - as with the XP system above, it takes eight times as long for an elf to progress as much as the human baseline, and three quarters as long for a half-orc. The one consideration is to perhaps massage the multiplication factor a little - in many settings, the longer lived races become reknown for being the best at certain crafts/professions in part because they've simply had much longer to perfect them. As such, perhaps lower the elven multiplier so that they continue to develop more slowly, but the maximum they can reach is a bit higher.

Arceliar
2007-02-23, 01:24 PM
On the other hand, human societies are typically more impoverished than elven societies. As a result, a human seems far less likely to reach his/her maximum age than an elf does.

At least, it's always looked that way to me. Either way, Gorbash Kazdar seem correct to me that the longer lived races should potentially reach a higher level of skill.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-23, 01:43 PM
If you have an Elf at 125 (starting age), he gains 18,750. We might want to think about that. The idea's good, though--have adults start at level 1, and time over racial multipler x 150 xp should do the trick.

An elf can live up to 750 years, and a human 90. That means an Elf ages around 8 or 9 times slower than a human (we can call it an even 10 to make it easier, if you want). This means that where a human would gain 125 xp in one year, it'd take about 8 years for an Elf to gain that much.

So, 1 year / 8 x 150 xp = 18.75 xp/year. This makes a little more sense.

*whips up a table*

Here's our aging table:

{table=head]Race|Age Multipler

Human|x1

Dwarf|x5

Elf|x8

Gnome|x5.5

Half-elf|x2

Half-orc|x.75

Halfling|x2[/table]

Man, you beat me to the table.

Neek
2007-02-23, 01:57 PM
The table might need some minor adjustment, granted. I merely divided the maximum possible age of an average elf, dwarf, et al. by the maximum age, of a human and rounded appropriately to get these figures. In argument for these existing figures, we're only looking at the most passive of NPCs. A master craftsman will face greater opportunities and challenges, competing with others, and produce greater works in greater numbers. This means that he will face events that have a greater CR than just 1, greater than the downtrodden village blacksmith ever will at least.

As a question, Fax: Are these figures about the same as you'd get? Or would rule different?

Fax Celestis
2007-02-23, 02:05 PM
The table might need some minor adjustment, granted. I merely divided the maximum possible age of an average elf, dwarf, et al. by the maximum age, of a human and rounded appropriately to get these figures. In argument for these existing figures, we're only looking at the most passive of NPCs. A master craftsman will face greater opportunities and challenges, competing with others, and produce greater works in greater numbers. This means that he will face events that have a greater CR than just 1, greater than the downtrodden village blacksmith ever will at least.

As a question, Fax: Are these figures about the same as you'd get? Or would rule different?

No, s'bout right.

jlousivy
2007-02-23, 09:52 PM
Is it intended that some classes do not gain any BaB?

Indon
2007-02-24, 11:19 AM
Naturally Talented [Commoner]
Prerequisites: Commoner level 3
Benefit: You gain levels at a rate of one every five years.
Normal: You gain levels at a rate of one every six years.

Something I noticed about this is that a commoner can not be "Naturally Talented" until they become 18 years old. That seems a bit... off. I can see level requirements for the other feats, but why not make this one selectable at first level?

Neek
2007-02-26, 01:33 PM
I agree with the notion that it should be a feat that's required to be taken at first level; but it might have to do with a slight disagreeance I have with Fax's system. Most Human PCs receive their first level at around 16-18, so any feat such as "Naturally Talented," if they didn't persue a commoner route, they would be 3rd or 4th level.

I'd rewrite the rules thusly:

Naturally Talented [Commoner]
Benefit: You gain +20% Expertise bonus to XP for passive leveling (that is, you gain 180 XP per year multipled by your age multipler).
Normal: For passive leveling, you gain 150 XP per year multiplied by your age multipler.
Special: You can only take this feat at 1st level.

Truly Gifted [Commoner]
Requirement: Naturally talented, Commoner level 3, about to become an Apprentice
Benefit: Select a Job Class. While you are working under this Job Class, you gain +20% Expertise bonus to XP from passive leveling (that is, you gain 210 XP per year multiplied by your age modifier).
Normal: You gain 150 XP multipled by your age modifier for passive leveling.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, you can select another Job Class. The effects do not stack.

Prodigy [Commoner]
Benefit: You can become an Apprentice at 2nd level, Journeyman at 3rd level of your Job Class, and Master at 7th level of your Job Class.
Normal: You can become an Apprentice at 3rd level, Journeyman at 4th level of your Job Class, and Master at 8th level of your Job Class.
Special: You can only take this feat at 1st level. The efffects only apply to one Job Class.

I might also want to advise changing the BAB. A 3rd level Commoner/3rd level Hunter receives only a BAB of +1. A sixth level Commoner then needs a 13 or better to hit a Deer (AC 14) . With RAW, a sixth level warrior gets a +6 BAB, so he would need a an 8 or better. Even a 6th level commoner out of RAW gets a +3 as his BAB, so he'd need an 11; still a greater improvement. It doesn't make much sense to nerf the Commoner so greatly.

I'd advise bumping the BABs up by a HD scale (0 to 1/4 or a 1/2, et al.) This would then mean a Commoner 3/Hunter 3 gets a base attack bonus of +2, which slightly better.

By the way, Hunter ftw.

Hunter
Requirements: Apprentice (Hunter) class ability, Knowledge (Local Geography) 2 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) 2 ranks.
HD: d4

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0|

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+1|

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1|Journeyman (Hunter)

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1|

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2|

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2|

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+2|Master (Hunter)

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+3|

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+3|[/table]

Class Skills (2 + Int): Craft, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Hunter), Survival.

Proficiencies: A hunter is proficient with a dart, a spear, and bow, but receives no additional armor proficiencies.

Journeyman: A journeyman hunter receives Track as a bonus feat.

Master: The hunter receives a +1 bonus to Knowledge (Nature), Profession (Hunter), and Survival checks.

elliott20
2007-02-26, 01:42 PM
If you have an Elf at 125 (starting age), he gains 18,750. We might want to think about that. The idea's good, though--have adults start at level 1, and time over racial multipler x 150 xp should do the trick.

An elf can live up to 750 years, and a human 90. That means an Elf ages around 8 or 9 times slower than a human (we can call it an even 10 to make it easier, if you want). This means that where a human would gain 125 xp in one year, it'd take about 8 years for an Elf to gain that much.

So, 1 year / 8 x 150 xp = 18.75 xp/year. This makes a little more sense.

*whips up a table*

Here's our aging table:

{table=head]Race|Age Multipler

Human|x1

Dwarf|x5

Elf|x8

Gnome|x5.5

Half-elf|x2

Half-orc|x.75

Halfling|x2[/table]
Hmm... I forgot about dealing with other races.

You're right though, if we're going to force other longer living races with a slower progression in classes, we should do the same for this.

In any case, the point of the idea was so that you treat a year of living as a non-life threatening encounter where basically you're biggest challenge is to just stay alive and live your life.

But I like that table. could use some numbers tweaking but I think that's generally the right idea.

NullAshton
2007-02-26, 02:16 PM
I believe you have Prodigy listed as a prerequisite for Prodigy, early on.

levi
2007-03-08, 07:00 AM
I really like this system and I dug up this thread after following the link in Fax's sig to the somewhat smaller version on his wiki. While I was there, I fixed some typos. Anyway, I had some questions, but the only one I can remember is:

Why do merchants have the focus on Forgery? Are they so shady that they forge documents all the time? Or are they so paranoid about forged documents that they feel compelled to check documents to see if they are forgeries? Either way, it makes no sense to me.

In a medieval (or psudo-medieval) setting, the average merchant is hardly going to be doing any writing at all. Perhaps a few tallysheets to keep track of inventory and some rudimentary accounting. It's not like he's writing up a bill of sale for every customer. On the other tentacle, perhaps I've got it all wrong and he would indeed be doing a lot of writing. I still don't see how one need two ranks in Forgery to become an Apprentice (merchant). Those skill points could be spent on better things.

Do you mind if I enter the classes and feats that aren't there yet in the wiki? (I know wikis are open for public editing and you didn't set any restrictions, but it seems like it's a pretty private project, so I feel I should ask before doing anythin' more drastic than fixing typos.)

Fax Celestis
2007-03-08, 10:53 AM
Merchants get forgery because the opposed check for forgery is not sense motive, as you think it'd be, but is instead forgery. The idea is that the altruistic ones would use it to make sure they're not getting robbed, while the sneakier ones would use it to increase their sales margin.

And feel free to enter those into the Wiki. I just haven't had a chance to yet.

Thoughtbot360
2007-05-22, 06:12 PM
This is a nice bolt-on, but a few things. It's mainly human centric, and not all races age the same. An elven commoner that's 100 years old is not going to be a greater level than a human at 20--which is about the starting age of PCs anyhow. Either a little chart to show how a race'd progress, or perhaps a different way of calculating level (rather than age alone) would be nice.

Perhaps something like a Commoner CL table that has a series of challenges that a commoner would have to go through and thusly provide a history of your character and provides XP to level them up. I can't think of much right now, sitting in between classes...

Actually, I always wonder why Elves aren't much stronger (or at least smarter) than humans when they start their adventuring carrer. I mean, even if the elf wizard is just 1st level, he should have taken the time to learn all the 1st-level spells, perhaps doing something strange like specializing in one school, then because he was bored, going back to magic academy and learning his barred schools, making him a generalist with +1 spell/day, at least for 1st-level and 0-level spells. I mean, 100 years is a long time to grow up, how much of a slow learner can any elf with even the minimum mental capacity required to be an adventurer (and a wizard to boot!) be?

elliott20
2007-05-23, 09:18 AM
there in lies the glaring inconsistency of internal logic when it comes to racial age. I mean, in order for elves and humans to actually be on equal level with each other and taking into account of the extra 100 years every elf gets over a human, you'd have to argue that all elves have some kind severe learning disability or something.

TK-Squared
2007-05-23, 09:54 AM
Prodigy [Commoner]
Prerequisites: Commoner level 3, Naturally Talented, Prodigy
Benefit: You gain levels at a rate of one every three years.
Normal: You gain levels at a rate of one every six years.

You need to have Prodigy to get Prodigy. :smallyuk:

Yakk
2007-05-23, 01:07 PM
Rather than giving elves a learning disability...

All of the above are 4+int skill point/level classes:
Child (1 level class) d3 HP per level. +1/3 Saves/+1/4 BaB/etc.
Adult (2-4 level class) d3 HP per level. +1/3 Saves/+1/4 BaB/etc. Requires Child 1.

Races develop from Infant to Child at different rates.

Long-lived races have 4 levels of adult, while short-lived races have 2. Long-lived races take longer to reach adult 2, and adult 3/4 are delayed (but the being can gain commoner classes as well).

Commoner: Gains 1d4 HP every 3 levels. Requires Adult 2.
+1/4 BaB, +1/3 Saves, etc.

Long-lived races are almost always multiclass commoners: those that don't multiclass develop much slower. They otherwise learn at the same rate as humans.

Skill points from Commoner levels are capped at the character class+3, not the character level. Skill points from Child/Adult levels add to all skill caps.

So a 300 year old Elf might be:
Child 1, Adult 4, Blacksmith 5, Poet 4, Hunter 2, Herbalist 1
9d4 + con*9 HP.
+4 BaB
+5 Will/Reflex/Fort saves

14 Int.

Craft(Blacksmith): 13
Profession(Blacksmith): 13
Profession(Poet): 2
Craft(Poem): 12
Survival: 10
Knowledge(Animals): 10
Craft(Herbs): 9
Heal: 7
Profession(Herbalist): 8
Knowledge(Local): 13
Jump: 5

A 40 year old Human might be:
Child 1, Adult 2, Blacksmith 5
+2 BaB
+2 Will/Reflex/Fort saves

Int: 12

Craft(Blacksmith) 11
Profession(Blackwmith) 11
Knowledge(Local) 11
Jump: 3
Climb: 3
Bluff: 1

The 300 year old Elf is slightly better at being a Blacksmith than the 40 year old Human, but the 300 year old Elf is far far far more rounded.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-05-23, 01:15 PM
Yakk, wouldn't that post go better in the Complete Child thread?

Matthew
2007-05-24, 09:00 PM
there in lies the glaring inconsistency of internal logic when it comes to racial age. I mean, in order for elves and humans to actually be on equal level with each other and taking into account of the extra 100 years every elf gets over a human, you'd have to argue that all elves have some kind severe learning disability or something.
Not necessarily, people tend to forget a lot of what they have learnt when they don't use it. Constant improvement and progress ceases to take place in leaps and bounds at some point and refinement and specialisation becomes the norm. Experience Levels and such operate outside the normal experience.

Insert Name Here
2007-06-16, 09:09 AM
Umm, with the feat "prodigy", Shouldn't it have "truly gifted" as a prerequisite, instead of "prodigy" (which makes it awfully hard to get)?
Edit: Also, you didn't mention the soldier's hit die (I'm assuming d6)