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Darrin
2009-01-22, 11:15 AM
In this thread about taking down an Iron Golem with a Duskblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102750), on a whim I suggested immobilizing it with nets or lassos. Lassos (Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 34) are actually best. Although nets are core, they only work on creatures up to one size category larger. Lassos have no such restriction, so by RAW they can be used on a creature of any size, including colossal.

I've been thinking more and more about this idea, and by RAW I think it's fairly solid (although admittedly completely whacked by RAI). I was hoping you fellow Playgrounders could bang on it a bit and see if there are any holes in it.

Step 1) Hire 15 1st level mercenaries, preferably a high Dexterity race such as elves or halflings. Make sure they take EWP: Lasso and have their best stat in Dexterity. Since there's a good chance half of them will die, better give them hazard pay. DMG price for a 1st level mercenary is 2 sp per day, and hazard pay may go as high as double that. So for all 15, 6 GP per day, plus the cost for the lassos (1 GP per mercenary). Cost: 21 GP.

Step 2) Wake up the Tarrasque. Smacking it with a thunderstone might work just fine, but if you're looking for style points then this would most likely be where you want to work in a little creativity or personal flair. Otherwise, a loud argument on whether or not the monk needs to be "fixed" should work just as well. Cost: 0 GP.

I imagine the Tarrasque will be just a wee bit grumpy, but assuming a worst-case scenario, let's say he wins initiative and our mercenaries have the bad luck or stupidity to stand within reach (20'). Six attacks + Cleave means 7 dead mercenaries.

At this point, the Tarrasque's Frightful Presence presents a bit of a problem if you have to roll for every single attack (it's not clear to me if the wording "by charging or attacking" means roll once for a full attack action or once for every attack). To make everyone immune to fear, make sure you pay for a Heroes' Feast beforehand. Cost: 660 GP.

Step 3) We need at least 4 mercenaries still alive, possibly more since the Tarrasque has Combat Reflexes and they'll be making ranged attacks. The lasso has a maximum range of 30' (outside the Tarrasque's reach if need be) and a range increment of 10', but we don't want to risk the range penalties so let's assume the remaining 8 mercenaries are within 10'. The Tarrasque has a rather impressive AC 35, mostly due to that +30 natural armor, but oh look, what's mentioned right after that...? An abysmal touch AC of 5.

So, all our remaining 1st level mercenaries just need to roll 2 or better to hit. 13 Dex (nonelite array) +2 Dex racial bonus = +2 Dex bonus. +1 BAB. We're going to need a bit more, since the Tarrasque's Frightful Presence means everyone who fails a will save (and we can just assume that it's everybody) will be shaken for -2. To make up for that, hire an adept soothsayer to cast bless. We're still short +1, so hire another adept soothsayer to cast magic weapon on the first mercenary to attack, and the Dex penalty will bring down the Tarrasque's touch AC to 3. 1 GP to hire a soothsayer for a day, and 10 GP for a 1st level spell. Cost: 22 GP. [Note: I misunderstood how Frightful Presence might work, so see paragraph above about Heroes' Feast.]

The 8 remaining mercenaries all attack with lassos (shouting "Yee-Haw!" is optional but a free action). The Tarrasque gets 3 AoOs due to Combat reflexes, and let's just assume 3 more mercenaries die. 5 lasso attacks left, we need at least 4 to hit or the Tarrasque just kills everybody. Odds of two of those rolls coming up 1... ugh, statistics isn't my strong point. Uh... odds of rolling 1 once in four rolls is 20%, adding a fifth roll means 5% of those rolls would be another 1, so... around 1%? Maybe someone with better math skills can jump in here. Anyway, let's say 4 lassos hit. Each lasso incurs a -2 attack penalty and -4 penalty to Dexterity. The penalties are untyped, so they should stack. Which leaves us the problem with the Tarrasque being immune to ability damage, but the SRD is able to help out there:



Some spells or abilities impose an effective ability score reduction, which is different from ability score loss. Any such reduction disappears at the end of the spell’s or ability’s duration, and the ability score immediately returns to its former value.


Bold = emphasis mine. From this, I conclude that the Tarrasque is not immune to ability score reduction. The Tarrasque has a Dexterity of 16, and each lasso incurs a -4 Dex penalty, so 4 lasso hits reduces it to zero Dex, rendering it immobile and helpless.

Step 4) At this point, you could dismiss the mercenaries and pull out the acid flasks. Fortunately, the acid damage ignores DR and can't be regenerated, but it will take you about 248 flasks on average to work up to 868 damage. 10 GP per flask, so 2480 GP total, but you might be able to cut this cost by 1/3rd if you make the acid yourself. DC 15 Craft: Alchemy check, requires 826.66 GP in raw materials, and assuming you take 10 + 4 ranks + 1 Int, 15 sp per week... 1653.33 weeks (roughly 31.8 years) to create 248 flasks of acid. [Note: The Tarrasque can regenerate acid damage, so don't bother with acid flasks.]

It's probably cheaper to keep the mercenaries, give them some scythes, and coup de grace the Tarrasque into a bloody smudge, but we need at least 9 scythes to outpace the Tarrasque's DR 15 and Regeneration 40. Average damage of a scythe crit is 20, reduced to 5 by DR, so 9 x 5 = 45. 45 - 40 = 5 nonlethal damage per round. It would take 174 rounds, or roughly 17 minutes to get the Tarrasque's nonlethal damage up to 868 hp. 9 scythes (18 GP each) + another 4 mercenaries (4 SP/day) = oh, call it 74 GP.

Total cost so far: 21 + 22 + 74 = 117 GP. 21 + 660 + 74 = 755 GP.

Step 5) Cast Wish.

The cost will vary depending on which method you prefer.

Luckblade with 1 wish: 62360 GP.
Pay spellcaster for wish or miracle spell: 26530 GP.
Candle of Invocation to gate in a solar/efreet/etc.: 8400 GP.
Pay spellcaster for gate spell: 6530 GP.
Pay spellcaster for planar ally spell: 1910 GP + efreet's payment.
"Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu!": 0 GP.

Step 6) Obligatory Underpants Gnomes Reference.

Starbuck_II
2009-01-22, 11:27 AM
You messed up on one important detail:

Tarresque regenerates any type of damage even Acid (Tarresque isn't a troll).

You better go with Scythe trick.

Keld Denar
2009-01-22, 11:31 AM
Fortunately, the acid damage ignores DR and can't be regenerated

Only if you are a troll. Mr. T regens EVERYTHING. Find a new kill condition. I'd suggest something with a fullblooded orc and a scythe. Or maybe 5 of them.

Also, causing paralysis via penalties is rather grey. Most likely to get you hit by the pointy end of your DM's Monster Manual.

EDIT: Gah, ninja! Starbuck II, go post in a different thread!

BRC
2009-01-22, 11:33 AM
Here's my plan
Step 1) Awaken the Tarrasque
Step 2) Trick it into saying "Candlejack"
Step 3) Pr

Person_Man
2009-01-22, 11:33 AM
This thread is made of awesome.

Douglas
2009-01-22, 11:42 AM
The Tarrasque has Frightful Presence. After those 6 attacks, the rest of your mercenaries are Paniced and running unless they somehow succeed on several DC 30+ will saves. You need to make them immune to fear.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-01-22, 11:46 AM
Here's my plan
Step 1) Awaken the Tarrasque
Step 2) Trick it into saying "Candlejack"
Step 3) Pr

What? Just having the Tarrasque say "Candlejack" won't do anyth

Lappy9000
2009-01-22, 11:52 AM
Hogtieing Hilarity
Wow Darrin, this is quite impressive. You've certainly earned a few wins.

Wins: :smallcool::smallcool::smallcool::smallcool:

Starbuck_II
2009-01-22, 11:57 AM
The Tarrasque has Frightful Presence. After those 6 attacks, the rest of your mercenaries are Paniced and running unless they somehow succeed on several DC 30+ will saves. You need to make them immune to fear.

Heroes's Feast makes you immune to stuff: Like fear. Apparently, fear is so poisonious to the system you are immune to that too.

TempusCCK
2009-01-22, 12:13 PM
I know you're trying to do this for as cheap as possible, but I mean, it won't be much to hire a few more mercenaries and give them lasso's I mean, just to decrease the odds of that spare natural 1 or 2. Also, some hirelings for wide effect fear immunities will be nice, and springing for some extra cash to make sure your mercenaries have a level in Rogue for the sneak attack could definately expediate things in the final stage, and is well within your budget.

kjones
2009-01-22, 12:18 PM
Beautiful, but I don't think ability penalties stack, even if they are untyped... I mean, could you drop someone to Str 1 with repeated Rays of Enfeeblement?

Animefunkmaster
2009-01-22, 12:28 PM
The Tarrasque has Frightful Presence. After those 6 attacks, the rest of your mercenaries are Paniced and running unless they somehow succeed on several DC 30+ will saves. You need to make them immune to fear.


Frightful Presence (Su)

The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 36 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Aside from the regen thing, this is fairly solid from what I can see. I am not sold on the multiple lassos being untyped penalties from a different source. Different attacks, sure, but its still the same source.

Edit: Ninja'd by Kjones... not even close.

Starscream
2009-01-22, 12:33 PM
What? Just having the Tarrasque say "Candlejack" won't do anyth

I don't get it. :smallfrown: Is Candlejack a reference to someth

Fax Celestis
2009-01-22, 12:37 PM
I don't get it. :smallfrown: Is Candlejack a reference to someth

Man, you think you guys would learn to stop saying Candlejack's name by now. Besides, that's jus

Douglas
2009-01-22, 12:42 PM
@Animefunkmaster:
Yes, it's only shaken, but fear effects stack. The first attack makes them all shaken, the second frightened, and the third paniced. To avoid going all the way to paniced, a mercenary would need to succeed on the save for at least four of the six attacks.

Heroes' Feast does work but would require at least a level 11 cleric and is not mentioned in the OP's plan.

Animefunkmaster
2009-01-22, 12:44 PM
I like the premise though. Ok, so these penalties are coming from being entangled, albeit partially. So by ray, other ways of entangling would not stack with this. How about Exhausted, that's a nice condition that imposes a -6 penalty to dex. I don't know a mundane way to do that, but throwing out the idea.

Also, the tarrasque isn't immune to ability drain... odd. I feel like there has to be a low level/non magical way to abuse this... just a thought.

The title originally grabbed me because I thought you were using the spell rope trick. But defeating the tarrasque by mundane gear, that's also very interesting.

Adumbration
2009-01-22, 12:46 PM
@Animefunkmaster:
Yes, it's only shaken, but fear effects stack. The first attack makes them all shaken, the second frightened, and the third paniced. To avoid going all the way to paniced, a mercenary would need to succeed on the save for at least four of the six attacks.

Technically it specifies that the target of the Frightful Presence remains Shaken as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. This could be interpreted so that no matter what, the target remains Shaken, even if other fear effects were applied.

Usually fear effects from the same source don't stack, however.




This thread is made of win, although I have no idea who or what Candlejack is. I even searched wik

Fax Celestis
2009-01-22, 12:47 PM
Heroes' Feast does work but would require at least a level 11 cleric and is not mentioned in the OP's plan.

Good thing it's a steal at CL 11 * SL 6 * 60 = 3960 gp.

Dyllan
2009-01-22, 12:49 PM
Man, you think you guys would learn to stop saying Candlejack's name by now. Besides, that's jus

Who or what is Candlej

Douglas
2009-01-22, 12:52 PM
Technically it specifies that the target of the Frightful Presence remains Shaken as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. This could be interpreted so that no matter what, the target remains Shaken, even if other fear effects were applied.
Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fear)


Usually fear effects from the same source don't stack, however.
Got a reference for that rule?

NecroRebel
2009-01-22, 01:00 PM
Who or what is Candlej

"The entity who's name begins with the word for a wax-and-wick light source and ends with a common given name," let's say, is described on the TVTropes wiki article of the same name. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CandleJack)

Put shortly, he's a minor villain from the old show Freakazoid! who only showed up once, but the episode where everyone was saying "Candlejack" was so impres

I'm gonna need more rope!

Bugbeartrap
2009-01-22, 01:02 PM
Awww, obscure attacks against the Tarrasque, careful combing of the rules, and someone even brought up Candle Jack.

This is why I love this foru

Darrin
2009-01-22, 01:29 PM
Only if you are a troll. Mr. T regens EVERYTHING. Find a new kill condition. I'd suggest something with a fullblooded orc and a scythe. Or maybe 5 of them.


It wasn't clear to me if the Tarrasque's Regeneration was substantially different from standard Regeneration, or if they just forgot to mention acid damage in the Tarrasque's description. But in any case, the scythes are cheaper.



Also, causing paralysis via penalties is rather grey. Most likely to get you hit by the pointy end of your DM's Monster Manual.


The rules for ability score loss never mentions paralysis. From the SRD:

"Dexterity 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless."

I believe Paralysis and Dex = 0 are two similar but separate conditions. But that wasn't the point you were trying to make. If multiple lassos were considered the same source, there's another workaround:

Gargantuan-sized Net (Core)
+ Gargantuan-sized Razor Net (Dragon Compendium p. 115)
+ Lasso (BoED p. 34)
+ Web spell (Core), even on successful Ref save target is entangled, which incurs a -4 Dex penalty.

So, still doable and fairly cheap.

FMArthur
2009-01-22, 01:30 PM
I would fully expect mercenaries to cost about 100 times more than normal for what you're trying to accomplish (subdue the Tarrasque...).

Kalirren
2009-01-22, 01:53 PM
That gives me a horrible idea:

Tarrasque Rodeo Build Challenge!

Project_Mayhem
2009-01-22, 02:04 PM
Who or what is Candlej

No, no, your doing it wrong. Learn to candlejack, newf

Darrin
2009-01-22, 02:17 PM
@Animefunkmaster:
Yes, it's only shaken, but fear effects stack. The first attack makes them all shaken, the second frightened, and the third paniced. To avoid going all the way to paniced, a mercenary would need to succeed on the save for at least four of the six attacks.

Heroes' Feast does work but would require at least a level 11 cleric and is not mentioned in the OP's plan.

Hmm. Originally, I only considered that Frightful Presence would come up once. It's not clear to me if the wording "by charging or attacking" means "charge action or attack action", in which case a full attack would mean checking once for Frightful Presence. But I'm willing to concede that multiple attacks might necessitate multiple checks. This is the Tarrasque, after all.

And I do believe the fear effects would stack. The various abilities that don't stack go out of their way to say they don't. Heroes' Feast is a great idea, but there may be other ways around that.

Dream domain ability (Spell Compendium)
Blooded feat (PGF)
Bullheaded feat (PGF)
Fearless feat (PGF)
Necropolitan template (no LA or LA -1)
Lolth-touched template (immune to fear)
Brash weapons + rage (+1 enhancement, MIC)
Banner of the Storm's Eye (15000 GP, MIC)
Use skeletons/zombies/kender instead of mercenaries.

Easiest/cheapest would probably be replace all the mercenaries with clerics of Sehanine Moonbow or Sotillion (for the Dream domain).

Keld Denar
2009-01-22, 02:22 PM
Easiest/cheapest would probably be replace all the mercenaries with clerics of Sehanine Moonbow or Sotillion (for the Dream domain).

May be easiest, but the cheapest is just casting a DMM: Fell Animate Greater Consumptive Field and taking a stroll through a city slum. Anyone with less than 9 HP is suddenly cut off midsentance.

"I say, Jane, these stale rolls are ju...BRAINS....BRAINSSSSSS!!!!"

Equip your newly conscripted army of zombies with lassos and sally forth!

FinalJustice
2009-01-22, 02:24 PM
That gives me a horrible idea:

Tarrasque Rodeo Build Challenge!

Are you kidding me? New Thread now!

And you forumites disappoint me to no end, disappearing like that to this Candlejack fella! I dare this imbecile to try and kidnap me! For I will teach him some less

martyboy74
2009-01-22, 05:48 PM
"I say, Candlejack, these stale rolls are ju"


Fixed for you.

herrhauptmann
2009-01-22, 06:17 PM
While he's not immune to ability drain like ray of enfeeblement, don't forget that he does have a pretty high strength score, and like 30% to reflect pretty much any spell cast at him. So you'll also need to pay a number of sorcerer's spam him the ray, preferably from a safe distance (in the air) before you start trying to rodeo him.

Renegade Paladin
2009-01-22, 06:22 PM
Who or what is Candlej
You're doing it wrong; if you don't finish Candlejack's name you don't tr

NEO|Phyte
2009-01-22, 06:29 PM
It's probably cheaper to keep the mercenaries, give them some scythes, and coup de grace the Tarrasque into a bloody smudge, but we need at least 9 scythes to outpace the Tarrasque's DR 15 and Regeneration 40.
I hate to rain on your parade, but you can't CdG Mr. T.
Regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration)

A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.
Even if you common sense past the italicized, the bold still gets you.

:edit: Also, this Candlejack nonsense is getting out of ha

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-22, 06:35 PM
Big T doesn't have Sonic Resistance...

bunch of level 1 Sorcerers with Lesser Sonic Orbs to chain-blast him into oblivion? Technically, it isn't a ray, it's a ranged touch attack, like Acid Arrow.

Starbuck_II
2009-01-22, 08:15 PM
Big T doesn't have Sonic Resistance...

bunch of level 1 Sorcerers with Lesser Sonic Orbs to chain-blast him into oblivion? Technically, it isn't a ray, it's a ranged touch attack, like Acid Arrow.

You are right and he has a Touch AC of 5. Good plan. But still only nonlethal damage.

Althought, you can fly and cast them + he can't do a thing.

Assassin89
2009-01-22, 08:41 PM
Enough of this Freakazoid character nonsense. I can outsmart that guy by not saying his name. The problem I see with tying the Tarrasque is that it can easily make the strength check to break the ropes. If any character has a death effect, use it if it has a will save or reflex save because a Tarrasque is more likely to succeed on a fortitude save.

Lycanthromancer
2009-01-22, 08:45 PM
Thing is, you can't move when your Dex score is 0, so Mr. T. cannot move to initiate a Strength check.

That's part of the trick, ne?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-22, 09:00 PM
You are right and he has a Touch AC of 5. Good plan. But still only nonlethal damage.

Althought, you can fly and cast them + he can't do a thing.

Nonlethal is all you CAN do to Big T. Drop him to 10+max hps, then Wish him dead.

So you've got a team of 5 guys plus the ropers. Ropers hang on for dear life, then you get 5 1st level Sorcerers with Wand of Lesser Sonic Orb (to give them enough shots to actually reduce his HP that much), and Wish when he gets enough nonlethal damage.

quick_comment
2009-01-22, 09:01 PM
Cant you CDG with weapon-like spells?

NEO|Phyte
2009-01-22, 09:10 PM
Cant you CDG with weapon-like spells?

Only if it requires a melee touch attack, afaik.

Malacode
2009-01-22, 10:02 PM
You should somehow find a way to contact the guy who wrote this (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dkb1/dnd/tarrasque.txt). I'm sure he'd love the input. If only there was an email adress in there...

Prometheus
2009-01-22, 10:13 PM
97.74075% chance of success on the lasso attacks. It's a binomial distribution (http://www.adsciengineering.com/bpdcalc/) with 5 trials (N) each of which has a probability of 0.95% of succeeding (P), and we are trying to find the probability that 4 or 5 succeed.

However, I think there is a flaw here. I am not familiar with the lasso, but in the case of the net, what the net actually does is make a target entangled not drop a -4 Dex penalty. Being entangled comes with the -4 Dex penalty, but because you can't have the same status effect more than once, multiple instances of entanglement only mean that you have to cut more ropes to escape and not that you have any higher of a Dex penalty. Of course, a lasso would be very helpful tool if you were immobilizing a powerful monster with Dex damage.

Frosty
2009-01-22, 10:30 PM
And here I thought this was a threa about how to make a Justiciar with enough Grapple mod to HogTie Big T. Oh well...

Lycanthromancer
2009-01-22, 10:48 PM
And here I thought this was a threa about how to make a Justiciar with enough Grapple mod to HogTie Big T. Oh well...

He'd almost have to be a totemist for that.

Darrin
2009-01-22, 11:59 PM
I hate to rain on your parade, but you can't CdG Mr. T.
Regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration)

"A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage."

Even if you common sense past the italicized, the bold still gets you.


Regeneration has nothing to do with the coup de grace. The coup de grace is allowed when the Tarrasque becomes helpless, per the rules for the helpless condition.

The bold sentence only applies to standard regeneration (i.e. trolls) where fire and acid damage are not automatically converted to nonlethal. The Tarrasque has a unique "Regeneration (Ex)" ability that contains no such provision, and I think we're assuming that this ability overrides the standard Regeneration ability.

If that's not correct and standard Regeneration is still in effect, then acid damage *would* work against the Tarrasque, would bypass DR, and would not be regenerated. But the text on the Tarrasque says no form of attack does lethal damage, which would include acid. So I think the Tarrasque's Regeneration (Ex) supercedes standard Regeneration. There's no mention in the Tarrasque description that attacks that automatically convert to nonlethal are not allowed.


97.74075% chance of success on the lasso attacks. It's a binomial distribution (http://www.adsciengineering.com/bpdcalc/) with 5 trials (N) each of which has a probability of 0.95% of succeeding (P), and we are trying to find the probability that 4 or 5 succeed.


Thank you!



However, I think there is a flaw here. I am not familiar with the lasso, but in the case of the net, what the net actually does is make a target entangled not drop a -4 Dex penalty. Being entangled comes with the -4 Dex penalty, but because you can't have the same status effect more than once, multiple instances of entanglement only mean that you have to cut more ropes to escape and not that you have any higher of a Dex penalty. Of course, a lasso would be very helpful tool if you were immobilizing a powerful monster with Dex damage.

The lasso description says the target is "partially entangled", with a slightly different effect. It has the same -2 attack and -4 Dex penalty, but the target's movement isn't halved and they can still run or charge. So it's not quite the same condition as entangle.

However, even if we assume that entangled and partially entangled are separate conditions... well, if multiple entangled conditions don't stack, then multiple partially entangled conditions shouldn't stack, either. Looks like the best you can hope for is a -8 Dex penalty (entangled + partially entangled).

In which case...

Game Over. Tarrasque Wins.

Keld Denar
2009-01-23, 02:10 AM
I'm pretty sure that you can't Sonic Orb the big T either, since he has Reflective Carapace. Pretty sure you'd end up beaning yourself in the head.

And Darrin, just because you don't want to read Regen that way, doesn't make the words on the page less true. Hes got Regen, and thus converts all damage to non-lethal. Thus, you can't CDG him. You can't just ignore the part that was bolded just because you don't feel it applies to him. Its Regeneration, which is clearly defined. Just because he doesn't have a weakness to his regen doesn't mean it doesn't work like all the other regen. You can't pick and choose which words to read and which not. Regen is regen is regen is regen, which is different from fast healing and different from DR. Its its own thing, and its clearly defined how it works.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-01-23, 02:12 AM
I'm pretty sure that you can't Sonic Orb the big T either, since he has Reflective Carapace. Pretty sure you'd end up beaning yourself in the head.

And Darrin, just because you don't want to read Regen that way, doesn't make the words on the page less true. Hes got Regen, and thus converts all damage to non-lethal. Thus, you can't CDG him. You can't just ignore the part that was bolded just because you don't feel it applies to him. Its Regeneration, which is clearly defined. Just because he doesn't have a weakness to his regen doesn't mean it doesn't work like all the other regen. You can't pick and choose which words to read and which not. Regen is regen is regen is regen, which is different from fast healing and different from DR. Its its own thing, and its clearly defined how it works.


Carapace (Ex)

The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.

Orb of Sound is not a Ray, a Line, a Cone, or a Magic Missile. Thus Carapace does not apply.

Keld Denar
2009-01-23, 02:25 AM
Bah, I claim Codex Creep. Orbs didn't exist when Mr T was printed, thus he couldn't reflect them. Since an Orb is similar to a Ray, bounce it back!

Eh, whatever. I can think of a dozen things more difficult to fight than a silly Tarrasque. Best way to kill the Tarrasque? Blasphemy. CLs are SO easy to manipulate, especially with Greater Consumptive Field. Hes only got 48 HD.

Cleric20
+1 Evil domain
+1 IWIN Stone
+4 Bead of Karma
+4 Divine Spell Power

Then get +15 from Greater Consumptive Field for CL 45. Then cast GCF again for another +22 CLs, which brings you to CL67. Since 67-48=19 and 19>10, Blasphemy strikes Mr T dead, or at least to -10. Then just whack him a few times with that massive Str score you have from 2 freaking GCFs and a nice big 2hander, and then pop your Ring of 3 Wishes.

You could, in fact, probably do this by about level 13 with the right financial backing.

Or hey, with an Ur-Theurge build getting Wish from Sublime Chord, you could even solo him, probably with only one GCF as well.

NecroRebel
2009-01-24, 12:41 AM
Bah, I claim Codex Creep. Orbs didn't exist when Mr T was printed, thus he couldn't reflect them. Since an Orb is similar to a Ray, bounce it back!

Eh, whatever. I can think of a dozen things more difficult to fight than a silly Tarrasque. Best way to kill the Tarrasque? Blasphemy. CLs are SO easy to manipulate, especially with Greater Consumptive Field. Hes only got 48 HD.

Cleric20
+1 Evil domain
+1 IWIN Stone
+4 Bead of Karma
+4 Divine Spell Power

Then get +15 from Greater Consumptive Field for CL 45. Then cast GCF again for another +22 CLs, which brings you to CL67. Since 67-48=19 and 19>10, Blasphemy strikes Mr T dead, or at least to -10. Then just whack him a few times with that massive Str score you have from 2 freaking GCFs and a nice big 2hander, and then pop your Ring of 3 Wishes.

You could, in fact, probably do this by about level 13 with the right financial backing.

Or hey, with an Ur-Theurge build getting Wish from Sublime Chord, you could even solo him, probably with only one GCF as well.

:smallsigh: I seem to repeat this at least once every few months...

Greater Consumptive Field does not work that way!

Greater Consumptive Field's caster level bonus does not stack with Greater Consumptive Field's caster level bonus because bonuses from the same source do not stack. Therefore, your second casting of Greater Consumptive Field nets only +7 to your post-Greater Consumptive Field caster level, for a total of 52, not 67.

In this case, you'd then need a third casting of Greater Consumptive Field, which would give a bonus of +26 or a net total of 56, and then a fourth casting for a total of 58, at which point you could actually Blasphemy big T down.

Keld Denar
2009-01-24, 01:48 AM
Ah, right. I see the math now. Regardless, if you are already slaughtering several dozen peasents in the name of killing the Tarrasque, who's gonna miss a couple dozen more? Seriously.

DMML: Fel Animate your GSF so the Tarrasque as something to munch on while you get into Blasphemy range. It is pretty short.

Wyvern_55
2009-01-24, 02:20 AM
The title originally grabbed me because I thought you were using the spell rope trick. But defeating the tarrasque by mundane gear, that's also very interesting.

Though it COULD be one of those threads!

Nothing about the spell rope trick states that there cannot be a creature tied to the end of the rope it is cast upon.

The extradimensional space will fit 8 creatures regardless of size, and the weight limit is just for what kind of a force can dislodge the attached rope, I think you could extradimension Mr. T and then just...dismiss the spell!

Nothing says class more than taking out the tarrasque with a second level spell!

Frosty
2009-01-24, 02:40 AM
He'd almost have to be a totemist for that.

Why? Totemist gives big bonuses?

BobVosh
2009-01-24, 02:43 AM
Hire 19 1st level mercenaries: 6.4GP
Buying lassos for each cowboy: 15 GP
Buying scythes for 9 Mercenaries: 162 gp
Good meal for the mercenaries: 660 GP
Waking the Tarrasque: 7 Mercenaries
Paying Zifnab to cast Gate: 6530 GP
Killing the Tarrasque with lassoing cowboys: Priceless

Also like to point out that hiring 20x more mercenaries is cheaper than heroes feast...

128 gp for 380 mercenaries. Some are bound to make a natural 20 on the frightful presence.

Eldan
2009-01-24, 06:54 AM
If that Rope Trick thing is true (8 creatures regardless of size) how about throwing in a bag of holding as well?

The Glyphstone
2009-01-24, 10:11 AM
I'm not sure what the problem is with saying


Y'Golonac

Ha!

out loud. Nothing happened to m

Teron
2009-01-25, 02:24 AM
Bah, I claim Codex Creep. Orbs didn't exist when Mr T was printed, thus he couldn't reflect them. Since an Orb is similar to a Ray, bounce it back!
Acid Arrow did exist, though. Same principle. This, in my opinion, is not one of the several things wrong with the orb spells.

Jack_Simth
2009-01-25, 10:38 AM
Step 5) Cast Wish.

The cost will vary depending on which method you prefer.

Luckblade with 1 wish: 62360 GP.
Pay spellcaster for wish or miracle spell: 26530 GP.
Candle of Invocation to gate in a solar/efreet/etc.: 8400 GP.
Pay spellcaster for gate spell: 6530 GP.
Pay spellcaster for planar ally spell: 1910 GP + efreet's payment.
"Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu!": 0 GP.
Two things here....

1) You're forgetting Planar Binding - no payment needed if you can cast it yourself, although it'll come back and bite you in the rear eventually.

2) There are methods by which you can avoid this step completely. See, Starvation and Thirst ignore regeneration. If you deal enough raw damage to Mr. T that if his damage dice on Thirst come up all ones, and his Con checks roll all 20's, that he'll still be over his max HP before his regeneration removes the lethal damage, then he might as well be dead (as he can't get up to drink anything or eat anything).

Yakk
2009-01-25, 11:51 AM
The hazard pay, given the death rates, should be higher.

Pay someone 30 years wages, times the chance of death, might be reasonable?