Turn/Rebuke Undead Feat

[MrNexx]

Turn Undead [Divine]
Prerequisites: Knowledge: Religion (4 Ranks), ability to Rebuke Undead, non-evil, a deity who will grant both turn and rebuke undead.
Benefit: You are able to Turn, as well as Rebuke, undead. Each use of this ability requires one use of your ability to Rebuke Undead.

Rebuke Undead [Divine]
Prerequisites: Knowledge: Religion (4 Ranks), ability to Turn Undead, non-good, a deity who will grant both turn and rebuke undead.
Benefit: You are able to Rebuke, as well as Turn, undead. Each use of this ability requires one use of your ability to Turn Undead.


And.... because I haven't thrown it out for a bit (and I plan to snip this over to the Cranky Gamer later)

Fast Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit: You are able to prepare and cast a spell with a casting time of a full round action or less as one category of action faster. Full Round spells become standard actions, Standard Actions, become Move Actions, Move Actions become Swift Actions, Swift Actions become Immediate Actions, and Immediate Actions become Free Actions. Spells prepared in this manner are prepared two levels higher than normal, but this does not allow a character exceed the usual limit of two spells per round.
Special: This feat cannot be used with spontaneous spellcasting, as the increase in spellcasting time negates any benefit.

Sudden Fast Spell [Metamagic]
Prerequisite: Any other Metamagic Feat
Benefit: You may apply the effects of Fast Spell to any spell you wish, once per day, without any increase in level or need for preparation.

Improved Sudden Metamagic [General]
Benefit: Choose one Sudden Metamagic feat that you possess. This feat may now be used another three times per day.
Special: This feat may be selected multiple times. Its effects stack.

(Yes, I know that the last can get really nasty, especially with sudden quicken)

[Eighth_Seraph]

I have to say IMHO that Turn/Rebuke undead feats need to be scrapped, buried and then have Meteor Strike cast on them. The reason that good clerics can't rebuke undead is because undead are irredeemably evil abominations to life in all its forms, and to rebuke/control undead would make them irredeemably evil as well.

Maybe if you counted it as an evil act that would require a will save of 15+1 cumulative for every use of the feat or have an alignment changed one step towards evil, and if that takes it outside of its deities accepted alignments, the cleric loses all class abilities until it has Atonement cast on it, which will have a 10% cumulative chance of failing for every time the feat has been used, until it is irredeemable at ten times.

Yes, it's harsh, but a bond of servitude with your deity should not be something so casually broken.

[Yuki Akuma]

I have to say IMHO that Turn/Rebuke undead feats need to be scrapped, buried and then have Meteor Strike cast on them. The reason that good clerics can't rebuke undead is because undead are irredeemably evil abominations to life in all its forms, and to rebuke/control undead would make them irredeemably evil as well.

Maybe if you counted it as an evil act that would require a will save of 15+1 cumulative for every use of the feat or have an alignment changed one step towards evil, and if that takes it outside of its deities accepted alignments, the cleric loses all class abilities until it has Atonement cast on it, which will have a 10% cumulative chance of failing for every time the feat has been used, until it is irredeemable at ten times.

Yes, it's harsh, but a bond of servitude with your deity should not be something so casually broken.

That's why one of the prerequisites is non-good, surprisingly enough.

*sigh*

Open your eyes. You'd be surprised what you can see when you pay attention.

[Eighth_Seraph]

Wow, shot down. Thanks Yuki, I needed that. Either way, I still think those feats will be far too useful and far too powerful, especially since they can (and more than likely will) be taken at first level by any neutral cleric. Maybe make it so that it uses up two turn attempts instead of one for balance purposes.

[Hario]

I don't like the idea of a Neutral Cleric with 24 cha turning then rebuking the undead they just destroyed... I have a Paladin/Sorcerer who has 10 turns per day, abusive...

[MrNexx]

I don't like the idea of a Neutral Cleric with 24 cha turning then rebuking the undead they just destroyed... I have a Paladin/Sorcerer who has 10 turns per day, abusive...

How could you rebuke undead you destroyed? Aren't they a little... ummmm... destroyed?

[MrNexx]

Yes, it's harsh, but a bond of servitude with your deity should not be something so casually broken.

Who do you think is granting the ability to turn or rebuke undead to these priests? I'll edit the abilities to reflect that the deity must be able to grant either.

[Fax Celestis]

I like your Improved Sudden Metamagic.

See, I think that the arcane Suddens got the shaft in that regard, because the Shadowcaster's Metashadow feats have that mechanic built in: take the feat again and get more uses.

[MrNexx]

I like your Improved Sudden Metamagic.

See, I think that the arcane Suddens got the shaft in that regard, because the Shadowcaster's Metashadow feats have that mechanic built in: take the feat again and get more uses.

That mostly came from a desire to be able to sudden maximize things a lot. ;-)

[Jack_Simth]

Just my opinion, mind, but I think Fast Spell is a bit much of a power up for Wizards - Consider an 11th level wizard with Fast Spell, Quicken Spell, and Empower Spell. In one round....

Standard: Empowered Scorching Ray (1.5*12d6), 4th level spell slot
Move: Fast Scorching Ray (12d6), 4th level spell slot
Swift: Quickened Scorching Ray (12d6), 6th level spell slot.

So he deals, assuming all rays hit, no SR, and no fire resistance, an average of 147 damage divided up among however many targets he likes. In one round. At CR 11, that will kill a 12 headed hydra. Variations include such nifties as Fireball or Lightning bolt.

Or that's not what he does.

At 7th, he makes a Fast Spectral Hand (4th), and a Ghoul Touch. Sure, he can't move.... but in one round he's got a save or lose at a range of 170 feet. Normally, he couldn't do that until he had 6th level spell slots (but would be able to move) at 11th level (at which point, most things will simply save against the 2nd level spell).

It's a significanly cheaper version of Quicken Spell. Wizards can already spell dump enough. No thank you.

Another way of saying it - is there any reason for a pure Wizard to take Quicken Spell before Fast Spell?

[Raum]

Turn Undead [Divine]
<snip>

Rebuke Undead [Divine]
<snip>
Those look reasonable to me. I like being able to add a bit of gray to the neutral cleric's abilities...


Fast Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit: You are able to prepare and cast a spell with a casting time of a full round action or less as one category of action faster. Full Round spells become standard actions, Standard Actions, become Move Actions, Move Actions become Swift Actions, Swift Actions become Immediate Actions, and Immediate Actions become Free Actions. Spells prepared in this manner are prepared two levels higher than normal.
Special: This feat cannot be used with spontaneous spellcasting, as the increase in spellcasting time negates any benefit.

Sudden Fast Spell [Metamagic]
Prerequisite: Any other Metamagic Feat
Benefit: You may apply the effects of Fast Spell to any spell you wish, once per day, without any increase in level or need for preparation.
Ahh...several problems here. First, Immediate actions aren't faster than Swift actions, they're Swift actions that can be taken when it's not your turn. Second, giving casters the ability to cast a spell as a Move action is a Bad IdeaTM they don't need the capability of casting three spells in a round. Making it a Free action is even worse...now he can cast as many spells as he can convert into Free actions in a single round...with time left over for a Move and Standard action.

[MrNexx]

About the converting spells... I forgot to include the language limiting them to no more than two spells per round. I'll go back and edit that.

EDIT... and posted to the 'Gamer.