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Mark Hall
2009-01-29, 02:50 PM
Is it just me, or has there been somewhat of an art change in the Erfworlders?

In 140 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0140.html), Wanda looks to be in relatively normal human proportions. However, in 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0004.html), she's shown much more childlike, with a slightly large head for body size; the default art I've associated with Erfworld.

The system's a bit slow for me to check when it started, but is this a conscious change signifying something, or just an artistic style change?

Sorry if this has been brought up; didn't see anything on the first page.

Occasional Sage
2009-01-29, 02:55 PM
It's been commented on several times, but as I recall there's no real consensus on what to make of it. Personally I think it's just evolving art, but there are plenty of folks who disagree with me.

Often at the same time, people note that Parson seems to be Erfifying, if I can create a horrifying word for the process. His eyes are the most noticeable change, along with his size relative to native Erfers.

Ultimatum479
2009-01-29, 03:26 PM
Parson has been slowly "Erfifying", yes. It seems possible that the people who interact with him or are affected by his redefinition of warfare in Erfworld have been changing in the opposite direction; everyone who isn't a major character or hasn't been too affected by Parson hasn't changed, like the lesser warlords in the coalition or in fact the vast majority of the humanoid Jetstone forces (if I may make that statement based on the uncroaked, which admittedly requires a bit of subjective interpretation based on their rate of decay). Bogroll looks no different (though the Evil Hamstard cap is awesomeness); he's simply too stupid for Parson to have affected him. He's as happy now as he was before, maybe a little bit more.

ishnar
2009-01-29, 03:30 PM
I've yet to see a single comic that has not incorporated significant artistic changes from the original after 100 pages. Page 500 or so is where artists tend to really stabilize their art. After that changes seem to be rather slight.

DevilDan
2009-01-29, 10:26 PM
I had previously considered that Parson might actually be affecting and changing Erf by his presence. In fact, his role in some ways parallels Nietzsche's fabled superman and his effect on reality. revolutionary military thinking aside, the cultural contamination itself could have significantly deleterious effects on Erf.

Could Earth's physics somehow affect Erf through Parson? Could an "Earth-reality cancer" begin to spread across Erf?

Tanaar
2009-01-30, 05:36 AM
Affecting reality, perhaps not. But it is possible that Parson's presence and prominence could ripple into Erfworld. Acting on the presumption that Charlie is also from Earth, given the abundant circumstantial evidence, we might suppose that some (though obviously not all) of the Earth references may have stemmed from him in some fashion. Given the preponderance of reference to culture of the 70s, 80s (Thriller, Grease, punk rock, Happy Days, Mork & Mindy, Charlie's Angels) and before, with few modern-day allusions, Charlie may be from the 80s or early 90s. If there is a distortion of relative time between Erf and Earth, Charlie could have been affecting Erf for decades or even centuries of its years with only a few dozen years passing on Earth.

surtt
2009-01-30, 08:23 AM
In 140, Wanda looks to be in relatively normal human proportions


Um...
Where do you live,
that is not very close to the proportions around here.

HandofShadows
2009-01-30, 09:17 AM
I think folks are makring WAY to much about "art changes". The art for this has been fairly stable but is still evolving. Which is normal. Artists should ALWAYS be learning and evolving. Also the art here supports a story. Which means if it requires a scene where Wanda looks a little taller to make the shot look good, she's going to be a little taller for that shot. The last panel of the latest page demonstrates this very clearly. If Wanda (and the zombies) had the standard Erf proportions, the shot would have looked very bad and the joke would have been lost.

Egmorn
2009-01-30, 11:26 AM
I've yet to see a single comic that has not incorporated significant artistic changes from the original after 100 pages. Page 500 or so is where artists tend to really stabilize their art. After that changes seem to be rather slight.

I think folks are makring WAY to much about "art changes". The art for this has been fairly stable but is still evolving. Which is normal. Artists should ALWAYS be learning and evolving.
Yes, and No.
As for me, I mostly disagree with these statements. They are only relevant in a non-stop comics like most webcomics.
They are completly irrelevant for printed comics.

There are two vision:
- Either the story is going to be told over years, in this case, the art drawn will evolve, based on the evolution of the artist. Sometime sligthly with each new page, sometime with a boom as the author try a new technique. I am not very fond of these, since I like to see a comic as a single piece of art.
- Either, a story or one comic is consider as a single piece of art. Which imply continuity. Even if the technique of the author evolve over time, its "duty" as an author is to ensure a coherence of the complete art piece. This imply coherent art.
the art can still evolve if it is artistically/story relevant (As stated, if it was a blending between reality and Erfworld seen by a regression of Parson art and an evolution of Erf units art).

Erworld was created to be a single story. It was stated by the author that they wanted to create first one book, with one story. And only after that, they will think about possible following story in this universe.

Since Erfworld has been created as a single story. I would rather expect to be in the second situation. Should I be to buy this story as a printed comic. I would expect continuity in the design.

As for the moment, I am still hesitant with this change of art. I am not sure wether it is calculated or simply an evolution in the technique.

SteveMB
2009-01-30, 11:42 AM
A webcomic telling an extended story is a sort of hybrid case, really. There are a few precedents (traditional comics, serialized text stories), but those were less likely to run long enough for the natural development of an artist's style to progress significantly.

DevilDan
2009-01-30, 12:48 PM
I still don't really see any changes that I would consider significant, either in scale or style. Perhaps it's that I expect that the creators would give us some indication or hint outside of the art changes.

chaoschristian
2009-01-30, 01:13 PM
There has been some slight general evolution to the art that seems to me to be a result of artistic progression.

However, I think there are also two notable cases, one minor, one major.

Parson's eyes have changed. I think that's a result of the Ruthlessness effect/spell/feat that's now attributed to/affecting him because of the sword. I don't think Parson has been Erfyfied in any manner beyond what can be readily explained by differences in perspective and effect.

Wanda, however, has changed. I think there is a reason for this. Wanda, to my eyes, has become more apparently menacing as her character has become more menacing. She looks more 'real' now because the story demands that her character become more 'real' to the readers, that we understand just how dangerous she is. A three foot high Bratz sorceress isn't that menacing. But Wanda doesn't look like that any more. She looks more adult: taller in appearance (if not in absolute terms), more realistically proportioned (even if tantalizing bits of her are . . . um . . . emphasized), less bobble-headed. I think there is intent there that's leading us to something as yet to be revealed.

That's or just massive fan-boy service.

Sweetie Welf
2009-01-30, 01:29 PM
Maybe this is just me, but I think Wanda's design changed after the dwagon lake disaster. When Parson brouth her to her Bedroom she looked pretty Erfworldish; her next appearance was when she fired off the Air defenses against Jillian. Then she looked quite different and more like now. This support neither of the two theories, but it's interesting.

ishnar
2009-01-30, 01:43 PM
Yes, and No.
As for me, I mostly disagree with these statements. They are only relevant in a non-stop comics like most webcomics.
They are completly irrelevant for printed comics.

There are two vision:

If so then I'd like you to point out ONE example, just one where my comment does not apply. Peanuts, Hagar the Horrible, Luann, Ah Megamisama, Batman, Superman, Dragonball Z, X men, etc, I can go on and on because I cannot find an exception. Not one.

Any comic, whatever the medium, whether on the internet or in print, shows significant artistic changes over time. Period. The artist is not only evolving a story but is improving his techniques. Which will affect proportions and such the most dramatically. If a character's head changes shape slightly, then it's most probably irrelevant to the story. If a character's eyes change color, it is far more likely to be relevant.

fangthane
2009-01-30, 03:33 PM
If so then I'd like you to point out ONE example, just one where my comment does not apply. Peanuts, Hagar the Horrible, Luann, Ah Megamisama, Batman, Superman, Dragonball Z, X men, etc, I can go on and on because I cannot find an exception. Not one.


Just to play the Devil's Advocate, because I largely agree with you (art is an expression of the artist's skill and state of mind, neither of which tends to be static over a long period) I'd contend that the one exception springing to my mind is The Far Side. It remained pretty consistent throughout.

On reflection, Don Bluth's stuff seems to have stayed pretty consistent too.

I also take issue with considering DbZ as 'art' but let's not go there. :smallbiggrin:
Superman and Batman are unfair comparisons; Kane and Shuster didn't, couldn't, exert such tight control over their creations as to avoid artistic drift. Pretty much any DC/Marvel title is similarly unfair - if changes are common for single artists, they're inevitable when new artists are allowed by the publisher to take the title in a new direction.

dr pepper
2009-01-30, 03:37 PM
I think it is a combination of artistic develpment and something else. Erflings do look different in different contexts. It's like what some mangas do, which personally i dislike, However, the authors seem to be handling it with just the right degree of finesse.

Wanda is an extreme case, but i've figured out why. She's manic-depressive. When she's down, she looks like a broken puppet. When she's on her way up, she looks like a teenybopper. And when she's at full intensity, she looks like an action star.

Olibarro
2009-01-30, 04:02 PM
I take Rob and Jamie's total lack of comment on the matter as evidence (although flimsy) that there is meaning to the stylistic differences. I think some, but not all, of it is evolution of the artist, but I also think some of it now is intentional.

And if it IS intentional, that's not to say they planned it from the beginning. Maybe they saw the evolution of the art and liked it and decided to make it meaningful.

I'm just cloud-talking though.

Egmorn
2009-01-30, 04:15 PM
If so then I'd like you to point out ONE example, just one where my comment does not apply. Peanuts, Hagar the Horrible, Luann, Ah Megamisama, Batman, Superman, Dragonball Z, X men, etc, I can go on and on because I cannot find an exception. Not one.
Simple enough. You only give example of long series with several books.
As I said before, The authors told us that Erfworld was created as a one shot story first. Depending on the success, then they will think about creating a sequel.

Example of short story are: 300, Sin city, The Watchmen (for comics book)
Most European comics are following this trend as well.

Keep in mind that both Mangas and american print comics are published in series and are created to last several years.

Suleman
2009-01-30, 09:59 PM
Wanda has fingers! Since when has she had fingers?

Olibarro
2009-01-30, 11:34 PM
Wanda has fingers! Since when has she had fingers?
Since panel 9 of comic #2. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0002.html)

Scylfing
2009-01-30, 11:45 PM
If so then I'd like you to point out ONE example, just one where my comment does not apply.

How about Looking For Group (www.lfgcomic.com)?


As for the changes in Erfworld, I'm pretty sure it's intentional, for example when the scene shifted to the "real world" the art style took on a much more realistic appearance to correspond to what was being represented. These guys know how to convey meaning beyond just through words and sight gags.

dr pepper
2009-01-31, 12:44 AM
Every read the original Doonsbury from back when Trudeau was in college? It was pretty crude. So were the original Simpsons.

slayerx
2009-01-31, 02:17 AM
It's just wanda... Ansom and Jillian both looked like they had huge heads in the earliest strips

I think it's all about the artist getting comfortable with the characters and the art...
For instance, if Jamie is more accustomed to drawing characters that are more normal proportions like say 6-7 heads high, then drawing them super deformed would be something he's not as used to... try as he might to draw them 3-4 heads high, he could easily find himself leaning back towards his old way drawing and thus he settles in and we get characters that look more like they are about 5-6 heads high


How about Looking For Group (www.lfgcomic.com)?

Though subtle, there is a bit of artisitc difference between the eariest strips and the newest ones... seems like the attention to detail seems like it increased along with better color work; such as how the earliest strips had more of a cell shaded kinda style where as it eventually turned to something more softened

Bawon von Howse
2009-01-31, 02:34 PM
...if you have a look at the 'cast page', Wanda's proportions are a lot more in proportion than she appears in the early comics anyway!

slayerx
2009-01-31, 02:40 PM
...if you have a look at the 'cast page', Wanda's proportions are a lot more in proportion than she appears in the early comics anyway!
Yes but still way out of proportion compared to the most recent strip...
Which is made obvious by he pose in the cast page and her pose in the last panel...

in the last panel of 140 she can reach her hands way above her head with elbows being even with her head... in the cast page, her arms are so short that she couldn't touch her hands while reaching above her head; her elbows can only make it up to her ears

ShiningTed
2009-01-31, 10:27 PM
I was going to say 'OotS, of course!' but a comparison of ep 1 with ep 500 gave me a shock.

If you can't avoid it with stick figures drawn by computer... :smallconfused:

Aquillion
2009-02-01, 12:45 AM
140 might also change the art style a bit just for the sake of the joke -- Wanda wouldn't look enough like Michael Jackson if she wasn't at least a little humanized. Maybe a unit's appearance changes while Dance Fighting or in combat, too.