Need a second opinion, is this killable? (Asmodeus, 4e)

[Crossfiyah]

I was bored so I stated out Asmodeus, after viewing the entries for Tiamat and, much later, Vecna. Just curious how killable he is, in your opinions, and further, anything I should perhaps alter. Thank you.

Asmodeus
Large immortal humanoid (devil, deity)
Level 40 Solo Controller (Leader)
XP 555,000
Initiative: +30
Senses: Perception +40, darkvision, low-light vision, truesight
Aura of Utter Hell (Fire): aura 20, enemies that enter or start their turns in the aura take 20 fire damage and incur a -5 penalty to all saving throws whille in the aura.
Infernal Potentate: aura 10, all radiant damage taken by Asmodeus or his allies while in the aura is reduced by 10.
HP: 1790; Bloodied 895, see also divine discorporation
AC 56; Fortitude 55, Reflex 55, Will 57
Immune attacks by characters below level 20, fear, charm, illusion, fire; Resist 20 all
Saving Throws +5
Speed 8, fly 12 (hover), teleport 8
Action Points 4
BM - Ruby Scepter of Hell (standard, at-will) - Cold, Fire, Lightning, Necrotic, Weapon
Reach 2, +45 vs, AC, 2d12+12 damage plus 1d12 fire, lightning, cold, and necrotic damage, and the target is knocked prone; see also Tyrant's Taint.
M - Eternal Wounds (standard, encounter)
Reach 2, +42 vs. Fortitude, the target is weakened and takes 10 ongoing damage until the end of the encounter.
R - Hell's Gaze (minor 1/round, at-will) - Gaze
Range 10, +44 vs. Will, the target is blinded and dazed (save ends both).
R - Red Lightning (standard, recharge 5,6) - Fire, Lightning
Range 20, Asmodeus targets up to 3 creatures with his red lightning burst; the first target must be within 20 squares of Asmodeus, the second target within 10 squares of the first, and the third target within 10 squares of the second; +42 vs. Reflex, 4d12+15 fire and lightning damage, and the target is stunned (save ends). Miss: Half damage.
C - Obeisance (standard, encounter) - Charm
Close burst 5, +42 vs. Will, the target is dominated (save ends).
C - Primeval Presence (minor, recharge 6) - Fear
Close burst 5, +42 vs. Will, the target is immobilized (save ends). Aftereffect: the target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls (save ends).
C - Black Icebreath (standard, recharge 5, 6) - Cold, Necrotic
Close burst 5, +42 vs. Fortitude, 5d12+15 cold and nectrotic damage, and the target is slowed (save ends). Miss: Half damage.
Tyrant's Taint
Any creature knocked unconscious by the Ruby Scepter of Hell remains unconscious unless it rolls a 20 on a death saving throw. The creature is unable to regain hit points as long as it remains unconscious.
Divine Discorporation (when first bloodied, encounter)
Asmodeus discorporates.
Tyrant's Triumph (Immediate reaction, when Asmodeus fails to discorporate)
Asmodeus immediately saves against all effects he is currently under and gains regeneration 20 until the end of the encounter. Additionally, Asmodeus can now land a critical hit on a 19 and a 20.
Alignment Evil
Languages Supernal
Skills Arcana + 40, Bluff +40, Insight +40, Diplomacy +40, Religion +40
Str 35 (+32) Dex 30 (+30) Wis 40 (+35)
Con 30 (+30) Int 40 (+35) Cha 40 (+35)
Equipment Ruby Scepter of Hell

[Llama231]

O.O
Looks good to me.

Not to nitpick:


Asmodeus
Coolio.


Large immortal humanoid (devil, deity)
Good.


Level 40 Solo Controller (Leader)
More goodness.


XP 555,000
If this fits the patter, it is good.


Initiative: +30
As a solo monster, he probably need higher initiative than just Dex, or some extra actions, in order not to risk loosing quickly.


Senses: Perception +40, darkvision, low-light vision, truesight
He should at least have darkvision...
What is the range on his sight?


Aura of Utter Hell (Fire): aura 20, enemies that enter or start their turns in the aura take 20 fire damage and incur a -5 penalty to all saving throws whille in the aura.
-10 is more epic.:smallamused:
I would also go with 30 instead of 20.


Infernal Potentate: aura 10, all radiant damage taken by Asmodeus or his allies while in the aura is reduced by 10.
So they still take damage?


HP: 1790; Bloodied 895, see also divine discorporation
Goood.


AC 56; Fortitude 55, Reflex 55, Will 57
Higher will than A.C.!?


Immune attacks by characters below level 20, fear, charm, illusion, fire;
This immunity to <20 characters ids strange...
Why is it needed?


Resist 20 all
Everything?


Saving Throws +5
That is sad, very sad.
At least +10.


Speed 8, fly 12 (hover), teleport 8
This monster is very epic, but this makes it too easy to run from.


Action Points 4
That's it?!!!
Needs more.


BM - Ruby Scepter of Hell (standard, at-will) - Cold, Fire, Lightning, Necrotic, Weapon
Reach 2, +45 vs, AC, 2d12+12 damage plus 1d12 fire, lightning, cold, and necrotic damage, and the target is knocked prone; see also Tyrant's Taint.
Still seems a bit weak...


M - Eternal Wounds (standard, encounter)
Reach 2, +42 vs. Fortitude, the target is weakened and takes 10 ongoing damage until the end of the encounter.
Does a save end?


R - Hell's Gaze (minor 1/round, at-will) - Gaze
Range 10, +44 vs. Will, the target is blinded and dazed (save ends both).
That does not seem like so harmful effects at this level.


R - Red Lightning (standard, recharge 5,6) - Fire, Lightning
Range 20, Asmodeus targets up to 3 creatures with his red lightning burst; the first target must be within 20 squares of Asmodeus, the second target within 10 squares of the first, and the third target within 10 squares of the second; +42 vs. Reflex, 4d12+15 fire and lightning damage, and the target is stunned (save ends). Miss: Half damage.
Good. Only 3 targets though? I think that it should keep gonig until one makes the save. Yay for army killing.:smallsmile:


C - Obeisance (standard, encounter) - Charm
Close burst 5, +42 vs. Will, the target is dominated (save ends).
This seems a little bit powerful. Can it be ended?


C - Primeval Presence (minor, recharge 6) - Fear
Close burst 5, +42 vs. Will, the target is immobilized (save ends).
Aftereffect: the target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls (save ends).
Only CB 5?


C - Black Icebreath (standard, recharge 5, 6) - Cold, Necrotic
Close burst 5, +42 vs. Fortitude, 5d12+15 cold and nectrotic damage, and the target is slowed (save ends). Miss: Half damage.
Same as above.


Tyrant's Taint
Any creature knocked unconscious by the Ruby Scepter of Hell remains unconscious unless it rolls a 20 on a death saving throw. The creature is unable to regain hit points as long as it remains unconscious.
How is this fixed?


Divine Discorporation (when first bloodied, encounter)
Asmodeus discorporates.
He should probably just teleport away instantly, what he has now makes him a little too easy to finish off.


Tyrant's Triumph (Immediate reaction, when Asmodeus fails to discorporate)
Asmodeus immediately saves against all effects he is currently under and gains regeneration 20 until the end of the encounter. Additionally, Asmodeus can now land a critical hit on a 19 and a 20.
???


Alignment Evil
Yes.


Languages Supernal
???


Skills Arcana + 40, Bluff +40, Insight +40, Diplomacy +40, Religion +40
'K


Str 35 (+32) Dex 30 (+30) Wis 40 (+35)
Con 30 (+30) Int 40 (+35) Cha 40 (+35)
Interesting...More menat than physical.:smallconfused:


Equipment Ruby Scepter of Hell
Nothing else?

[Crossfiyah]

As a solo monster, he probably need higher initiative than just Dex, or some extra actions, in order not to risk loosing quickly.

I tried to build him as closely as the back of the DMG suggests for building monsters. A level 40 solo controller would have that initiative.


He should at least have darkvision...
What is the range on his sight?

He does have darkvision, and his range is assumed to be everything within his presence.


-10 is more epic.:smallamused:
I would also go with 30 instead of 20.

Yes I will probably bump it to 30. Maybe higher, after seeing Vecna's aura. But if the penalty is -5, it means they can only save from effects he can deal, as a minor action for the most part, on a 15 or higher, which is already ridiculous.


So they still take damage?

If the radiant damage does more than 10, yes. Mostly it counters any sort of weaknesses that creatures may have to radiant damage, and it eliminates any chance of Divine Challenge ever affecting him.


Higher will than A.C.!?

His base AC was 54, and the solo improvement took it to 56. Due to his stats, his Will is slightly higher. Makes sense really that the lord of the nine hells would have a ridiculous Will defense.


This immunity to <20 characters ids strange...
Why is it needed?

All deities have that property.


Everything?

Yes, damage must be over 20 to affect him at all.


That is sad, very sad.
At least +10.

All solos get +5.


This monster is very epic, but this makes it too easy to run from.



That's it?!!!
Needs more.

It's identical to Vecna, and the only person who has higher is Tiamat, as each head can use 1 AP. Though I may bump it to 5.


Still seems a bit weak...

It's practically unresistable, and will only really be used when the other attacks are on recharge or Asmodeus wants to knock something unconscious. Plus, prone incurs an AoO almost always to get out of, which, if it hits, will knock the enemy prone AGAIN.


Does a save end?

No.


That does not seem like so harmful effects at this level.

Coupled with the -5 penalty to save, and the fact he can incur it every round, it can be very debilitating.


Good. Only 3 targets though? I think that it should keep gonig until one makes the save. Yay for army killing.:smallsmile:

I don't envision Asmodeus as pure damage, but more a master of situations and circumstances.


This seems a little bit powerful. Can it be ended?

It says "save ends"...


Only CB 5?

With his move speed, he can position himself practically wherever he wants.


How is this fixed?

The creature needs a natural 20 on his death saving throws to not die. If he recovers, the effect ends unless he is once again knocked out by the Ruby Rod of Hell.


He should probably just teleport away instantly, what he has now makes him a little too easy to finish off.

All deities have this. If he gets bloodied his form automatically leaves the realm. The only way to kill him is to somehow trap him.


???

In case he is somehow trapped, Asmodeus would, of course, have a back-up plan.


???

Language of the gods. It lets him speak and understand all languages.


Interesting...More menat than physical.:smallconfused:

It's Asmodeus. Of course he is more mental than physical.


Nothing else?

He doesn't need anything else. :smallsmile:

[Crossfiyah]

How to use Asmodeus in battle:

Asmodeus' Tactics: Asmodeus prefers to allow others to engauge stubborn foes in combat for him. Should he be forced into battle, Asmodeus uses his superior mobility to always achieve the best position in combat. When the encounter begins, he attempts to include as many enemies as possible in his Obeisance. Afterwards, he focuses his attacks on the opponents who did not succumb to his control, first using Primeval Presence to immobilize them, followed with Hell's Gaze until the former recharges. He also uses either Red Lightning or Black Icebreath, depending on which is available and how scattered his opponents are. He cripples the most physically-imposing opponent with Eternal Wounds. He never uses his Ruby Rod of Power unless he has no other attacks available, or an opponent would be knocked unconscious by the attack. His Tyrant's Taint allows him to entirely focus on still-able opponents. Asmodeus will gladly fight until he is bloodied, as he knows he can simply leave the realm if somehow overwhelmed. If, however, his opponents prepared for the battle, he relies on Tyrant's Triumph as a back-up plan to see him through.

[Llama231]

*snip*

Well, that answered all of that.
I do not really have any more suggestions.

[Crossfiyah]

In that case, can anyone come up with a team of 5 that can kill him?

[Mando Knight]

In that case, can anyone come up with a team of 5 that can kill him?

Without uber-cheese, it'll be impossible. You've statted out a monster that's five levels higher than Tiamat. He's ten levels higher than any PC. Tiamat is nearly impervious to attacks from adventurers, so he'll be impervious to all attacks from them.

Again, he's five levels higher than Tiamat. Seeing as Vecna's only a few lower (he's level 33, right?) than her, I really don't see Asmodeus eclipsing either deity by that much. Yes, he's the Lord of the Nine Hells, but Tiamat's the Queen of Chromatic Dragons... which happens to include half of the level 29+ solo monsters in the MM (Ancient Red and Dracolich, the other two are the Tarrasque and Orcus). Level 35 should be high enough to impose the "can't touch me" that comes with divinity...

I'd reserve level 40 for overdeities like Io, AKA The Dragon Which Man Was Not Meant To Know.

[Crossfiyah]

Vecna is also 35. And to be fair, Asmodeus has supposedly been as powerful as a deity even BEFORE 4e when he was officially recognized as such. He's reported to be the original evil in the universe. IMO that's worthy of 40. Regardless, it's not really that important, I just want to know if anything else could make him more "Asmodeusy"

[Meek]

I don't understand the point of giving him these stats in the first place. If you want him to be nigh untouchable, just don't give him stats and say "No" to every attack your PCs make. If you actually want him to be beatable, make him level 35 like the other deities that are able to be killed.

[Alteran]

I will say that the stats seem appropriate. They make sense, and seem to fit his level. Now I'm going to say that he seems unkillable. He should be unkillable at that level. Can you imagine a level 20 party taking out an ancient red dragon without some crazy cheese? I think that although Asmodeus is supposed to be very powerful, there's no way he could be that insanely powerful. He could just walk over any of the other gods, and I have a feeling that if he could do that, he would.

As for him being the original evil, I don't know if that's right. I would guess the Primordials were the first evil beings in the universe, since IIRC they came before the gods.

[Crossfiyah]

My theory is Asmodeus is more about "I could do it, but what fun is that? It'd be more fun to slowly devise a plan over the course of a million years that will, in its eventual culmination, pit the gods against each other and release me from this prison so that I may corrupt the entire multiverse into my servitude."

What good is murdering deities, when their followers are so much juicier? And ya I'm not sure where he stands with 4e's revamps and whatnot, and this is partially based on the CR 81 Asmodeus.

[Alteran]

See: The Blood War. It may not be actively going on in 4e, but it does show that Asmodeus is not opposed to open warfare when it is productive. The way I see him, he is about doing what he needs to do to get what he wants, whether that's subtle manipulation or plane-wide warfare.

[Mando Knight]

Vecna is also 35. And to be fair, Asmodeus has supposedly been as powerful as a deity even BEFORE 4e when he was officially recognized as such. He's reported to be the original evil in the universe. IMO that's worthy of 40. Regardless, it's not really that important, I just want to know if anything else could make him more "Asmodeusy"

Level 40 doesn't mean "as powerful as a deity," it means "Vecna Riding Tiamat With a Hundred PCs Following Behind Couldn't Beat Me." If you want him to be undefeatable, don't bother with stats, or even knock him down to level 35. Level 35 means "If you mess with me, your life's as good as gone." Level 40 means "I'm the most powerful being in the Multiverse. Gods can't touch me, Primordials quake in fear of me." Again, I'd save that level for Overdeities, like possibly pre-sunder Io. (powerful enough that when split in two, two gods rose from his corpse) Asmodeus might be a powerful deity, but I doubt that he outclasses Tiamat, a deity from OD&D, and Vecna, whose ascension to godhood was faster than Asmodeus's.

[Joeluma]

Offhand, I can only think of one way to beat him: Massive numbers of no-attack-roll hits, a near limitless slew of consumables... and a larger than 5 person party.

First, a potion of spirit gives +6 to death saving throws until the end of the encounter, and it is easy enough to find at least +4 to all saves elsewhere... that would make that 20-only power a 10-20 roll, and the +4 to saves would do nice things elsewhere.

A potion of regeneration for everyone, and everyone has regen 15 at the cost of a healing surge... Potion of Resistance gets an extra resistance 15 against one damage type for each pc, and items should go a long way for other resistances...

for the rest, you'd pretty much be stuck with a party of item-using defenders and leaders, spamming as many we-dont-have-to-roll attacks as they could each round, and passing around kegs full of Potions of Life.

Or, for giggles, get a a party of 8 swordmages to attack him, all epic 30, all 'Arcane Sword' destiny... for this ability:

Sword's Vengeance (24th level): Once per day.
when you die, your sword fights on in your stead until
the end of the encounter. Each round, the sword can
move and make attacks as if you were still wielding it.
but it cannot be the target of any attack.

there is a swordmage ability that deals your enemy 10 untyped damage each round he doesn't attack you (as an effect, so it doesn't need to hit)... and none of the swords could be attacked. give them a high enough speed to ensure asmodeus never got away, and it becomes a tick-tock situation... he can't attack them, so he takes 80 damage(10 damage per swordmage) per round, he couldn't outrun them, and they basically only hit on a 20. lol.

Win on around the 25th or so round, probably.

[Draz74]

Level 40 doesn't mean "as powerful as a deity," it means "Vecna Riding Tiamat With a Hundred PCs Following Behind Couldn't Beat Me." If you want him to be undefeatable, don't bother with stats, or even knock him down to level 35. Level 35 means "If you mess with me, your life's as good as gone." Level 40 means "I'm the most powerful being in the Multiverse. Gods can't touch me, Primordials quake in fear of me." Again, I'd save that level for Overdeities, like possibly pre-sunder Io. (powerful enough that when split in two, two gods rose from his corpse) Asmodeus might be a powerful deity, but I doubt that he outclasses Tiamat, a deity from OD&D, and Vecna, whose ascension to godhood was faster than Asmodeus's.

Agreed, generally. Asmodeus may have reached deity status, but he's still not exactly a big wig amongst the gods.

Game designers have stated that Greater Deities will be about Level 38. If Vecna and Tiamat are Level 35, I can't see Asmodeus being higher than 37. (I can't see anyone being higher than 45, and maybe even overdeities will be 40 or 42 or something.)

[The Tygre]

All I can say after reading this Asmodeus...

I thinks I just had me a Baatorgasm.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Asmodeus might be a powerful deity, but I doubt that he outclasses Tiamat, a deity from OD&D, and Vecna, whose ascension to godhood was faster than Asmodeus's.

Well, he has been equal to or greater than the gods since OD&D/1e, and he didn't ascend before Vecna did because he didn't need to. The only reason he's a god in 4e is because (A) for some reason the devs wanted to kill a whole bunch of lore, and having a non-deific being at that power level was no-no, even though it's much more impressive if he's non-deific, and (B) in the 4e cosmology there are gods and primordials and that's it.

Asmodeus is, as someone mentioned, one of the elder evils of the multiverse (and not in the sense of the 3e Elder Evils books), according to the Fiendish Codices of 3e, all the Planescape lore of 2e, and the 1e material on outsiders and the planes (except the 1e Monster Manual, of course, because everything gets at most 3 paragraphs of fluff there). He should be a bit more powerful than most of the gods and maybe on par with the greatest of them. Now, given the compressed level scheme of 4e, perhaps level 40 isn't the best place for him (maybe 37 or 38 would be better) but I don't see any problem with him beating out Tiamat or Vecna at all.

[Joeluma]

Killing Asmodeus. Party Makeup:

1) Wizard. Implements Orb and Wand. Optimized for max save reduction (wis) and max to-hit boost (dex). Elf, with reroll optimization, etc.

2) Leader. Warlord or Bard. Helm of Heroes, Warmaster's Assault, max possible charisma bonus (30, so +10 charisma. can grant the wizard an attack with +10 to hit and damage, can make it a standard action instead of basic with the helm). Probably a bard/warlord multiclass, also adds charisma to init to ensure the group goes first.

3) Rogue Minion master. Some character designed to spawn around 8 minions in the first round, and keep them away from trouble.... also designed to penalize the saves of any enemy adjacent (massively).

4) A +to-hit buffed, reflex and fort targetting striker, with the avenger crit=ap destiny.

5) Another +to-hit buffer, this one an avenger (for the ability to grant someone else the double-roll)

First. Minion master spawns his 8 minions. Next, the wizard goes, casting sleep on the minions.

The minions fail their saves, or at least some do. They are now unconscious (save ends).

The bard goes. tries to reduce the defences of asmodeus, maybe succeeds. Grants the wizard a free standard action, with +10 to hit, grants everyone else a free basic attack or charge.

The wizard uses his wand of accuracy to grant himself probably another +5-10 to hit. He casts any spell with more than one attack, against fort or reflex. He pours an AP in, etc, uses every trick to make sure that attack hits.

Orb of Unlucky Exchanges. the minion that is unconscious loses that effect, asmodeus is now unconscious (save ends).

Banzai! everyone else moves in, using the warmaster's attack to begin things. all three strikers are punishers, each seperately optimized to hit reflex and fort and have good chances. every hit a crit, every crit granting an extra attack.

banzai?

[Yakk]

So a few things:
1> You need the ability to burn resources to save against effects immediately.
2> You need a way to make up for the "you are only 1 creature" action budget.

I'd be tempted to give Asmodeus some kind of summoning power, where he spams out level (X-3) minions or the like.

[Mystic Muse]

yeah he's too powerful. most parties couldn't kill this guy unless you wanted to make extra powers and things so that the party could go ABOVE epic level. he also has too much resistance. try to tone him down just a LITTLE bit. he can do 30 damage to each player per round pretty much and I don't think you can have over 300 even at epic. if none of the players have resistance to fire then they're as dead as can be. they can't last more than ten rounds at that rate and as far as I can tell there's only one way to kill him.

get a character with re-roll die once per encounter.
get the demi-god epic destiny
get a vorpal blade
voila asmodeus is now dead as a doorknob.