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Piedmon_Sama
2006-07-04, 09:50 PM
Well, I promised I'd get around to doing more stops on my "world tour" of new base classes, though the low response to my Mexica Knight was somewhat discouraging.... nevertheless, I still feel that other historical badassi deserve just as much spotlight as a certain katana-wielding stagehog. *Thus, the Hashisheen.

~~~~~

The Hashisheen

Centuries ago, in a vast and heavily religious desert empire, there existed an esoteric order of holy killers called the Hashisheen. *Though steeped in mysticism and intensely religious, they often struck at various leaders of that time's dynasty for politically motivated reasons. Using as much terror as force, these Hashisheen became a powerful and politically dominant force.

In the time since, the once-powerful Hashisheen have fragmented into dozens of dispirate orders. *Though their skills and techniques now belong to many different orders, all bearing the name of Hashisheen, their reputation is no less feared. *

Hashisheen are characterized by their use of hashish, smoking it to achieve a state of heightened awareness in which they behold visions of paradise. *Once seeing what they can attain through martyrdom, they think nothing of throwing away their lives for their masters. *That is not to say Hashisheen are suicidal, or that they will abandon themselves to the enemy after completing a mission. *But to them death holds no mystery, nor terror. *

They prefer to carry out their assassinations in broad daylight and in public places, almost invariably employing daggers for maximum psychological effect. *In this way, they enhance the terrifying reputation of their order not just to the noblemen they target, but the people of entire nations. *

Many Hashisheen are trained from adolescence, but just as many find their way into the order later in life. *A Hashisheen order is usually far more esoteric and mystical than the mainstream of its particular faith, and they are often not recognized by the hirearchy of those religions. *For example, a Hashisheen order may devote itself to Saint Cuthbert, but their interpretations of his sayings and commandments would be far different from the average, and a typical Cleric of St. Cuthbert would consider them misguided at best, apostates and heretics at worst. *

Alignment: Any non-chaotic.
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge [Religion] (Int), Knowledge [Nobility & Royalty] (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Slight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Rope (Dex)

Skills per level: 6+Int Modifier (x4 at first level)

BAB: 3/4ths (As Cleric)
Saves: Reflex and Will good. *Constitution poor.

Class Features

Weapon & Armor Proficiencies: A Hashisheen is familiar with all simple weapons, and light armor. *He also is trained to use the Scimitar, Rapier, Short Sword, Kukri, and Sap. *They are also trained with the Shortbow and Hand Crossbow, but generally disdain ranged combat. * * * *

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, the Hashisheen may select between Improved Initiative and Quick Draw as a bonus feat.

Sneak Attack: If the Hashisheen can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from an attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage. *Any time the target is flat-footed, helpless, or would otherwise be denied their dexterity bonus to AC, the Hashisheen can make a sneak attack. *The Hashisheen can also use this ability when flanking an opponent. *Sneak Attack damage is not multiplied on a critical attack, nor is it usable against constructs, undead, or any adversary that lacks discernable anatomy.

The Hashisheen's Sneak Attack bonuses: +1d6 at 1st level, +2 d6 at 4th, +3d6 at 8th, +4 d6 at 12th, +5d6 at 16th, and +6d6 at 20th. *

Trapfinding (Ex): A Hashisheen of 2nd level can use a Search check to look for traps that have a higher DC than 20 to find. *The Disable Device skill allows him to disable or bypass traps.

Consecrate Weapon (Su): Starting at 3rd level, once per day, a Hashisheen can consecrate his weapon with a special blessing. The consecration lasts until the first time the weapon deals damage. * The Weapon gains a divine bonus to attack and damage equal to ˝ the Hashisheen’s current Hashisheen level, rounding down. *Activating this ability is a swift action. *Only melee weapons can be consecrated.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level, the Hashisheen retains his dexterity bonus to AC even in situations where he would normally be flat-footed, or if struck by an invisible attacker. *He still loses it if immobilized. *At 12th level, he can no longer be flanked, except by a Rogue or other Hashisheen of at least 4 levels higher. *

Holy Zeal (Ex): Through the imbibing of hashish, a member of the assassin cult attains a temporary state of higher awareness, when their mind touches that of their God. *They then behold a vision of Paradise as it exists upon their Deity’s home plane. *The knowledge that this reward awaits him in the next life will spur the Hashisheen to drive himself to his very limits on missions. *The fear of death leaves him, granting him a bonus to will saves vs fear effects, checks to avoid being shaken, and a moral bonus to attack and damage rolls. *

To gain this bonus, the Hashisheen must smoke hashish or some equivalent mind-altering substance and experience its mind-expanding effects. *The rituals take one hour, and the benefits do not immediately take effect. *Instead, the Hashisheen can activate the ability at any point after the ritual as a free action, the benefits lasting for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 his level + his Wisdom modifier. *The subsequent bonus is at first +2, then +3 at 9th level and +4 at 15th. * *

Dagger Focus: Most Hashisheen orders use a dagger as their signature weapon, preferring to get as close to the target as possible and kill with a small, quick blade. *At 4th level, the Hashisheen gains Weapon Focus: Dagger as a bonus feat. If he already has this feat, he gains Weapon Specialization: Dagger instead. *If he has both feats already, then this ability is wasted. *

Resist Pain (Ex): The Hashisheen claim it is the power of their faith, while others claim it’s the residual effect of drug buildup. *Whatever the reason, Hashisheen operatives are notably resilient against injury and fatigue. *At 4th level, the Hashisheen gains a +2 bonus to Endurance-related fortitude saves (such as resisting subdual damage from weather conditions or forced marching), as well as any saves to resist effects caused by pain. *This bonus increases to +3 at 12th level, and +4 at 16th level. *

Evasion (Ex): At 5th level, the Hashisheen ignores damage from any spell or other effect that would normally allow for half-damage on a successful saving throw (assuming he makes the save.) *

Death Blow: As the feat in Complete Adventurer. *A Hashisheen can make a coup de grace as a standard action, rather than a full-round action. *It still incurs an attack of opportunity. *Unlike the feat, the Hashisheen’s ability only works when the Hashisheen uses a dagger-type weapon for the attack. * * * *

Staredown (Ex): The eyes of a Hashisheen are the eyes of a man who has seen heaven, and in some cases hell. *Few can meet such a gaze and not flinch—the Hashisheen gains a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks, and can demoralize an opponent. *

Holy Vision (Su): At 6th level, the Hashisheen is granted special sight by the blessing of his patron deity. *He gains darkvision with a 60 foot range. *Unlike regular darkvision, this ability functions normally in the effects of a darkness*spell. *

Improved Grapple: At 7th level, the Hashisheen gains the Improved Grapple feat for free. *He does not need to meet its requirements. *He does not provoke an attack of opportunity to initiate a grapple, and gains a +4 bonus to grapple checks. *

Mass Staredown (Ex): At 10th level, a Hashisheen can make an intimidate check to demoralize all enemies within a 30 ft. area. *Such is the fearsomeness of his character and otherworldliness in his stare that he can cow multiple foes.

Close-In Stab: At 11th level, the Hashisheen does not suffer a -4 penalty when making an attack while grappling, so long as the attack is made with a dagger or dagger-type weapon. *

Improved Staredown (Ex): At 15th level, the Hashisheen can make an intimidate check to demoralize all enemies in a 30 foot radius, and does so as a move action rather than a standard action.

Holy Terror (Su): At 16th level, the Hashisheen can terrify one opponent utterly. *A successful intimidate check against one enemy of CR equal to or less than the Hashisheen’s causes that enemy to panic as if effected by the cause terror*spell. *This ability is usable against one opponent in each encounter. *Whether the target makes or fails his level check, he is immune to this ability for the rest of the day. *

Staggering Strike: At 18th level, the Hashisheen can make a staggering strike on any opponent who would be normally subject to a sneak attack. *Regardless of whether its subdual damage equals its hitpoints, the target is treated as staggered for one round (or until he is subject to a DC 15 heal check, whichever comes first.) *A target can resist this effect with a successful fortitude save (DC equal to 10+Hashisheen's level). *Multiple staggering strikes on the same creature do not stack. *The Hashisheen can only make a staggering strike when wielding a dagger or dagger-type weapon.

~~~~

NOTES: I'm still not decided on whether the Hitdie should be a d6 or d8. *I know I want him to be formidable in melee (at least as formidable as 3/4th BAB will allow) but I'm not sure if it's too much for the number of abilities he gets. *Consecrate Weapon and Sneak Attack are meant to be combined so that he can, essentially, be all but assured to deal a major damage attack at least once a day. *I hope he isn't too similar to the ninja or the Assassin PrC, although he borrows elements from both. *PEACH please.

Evil_Pacifist
2006-07-04, 11:06 PM
Looks pretty good, maybe even a touch overpowered. Also, what type of action is Consecrate Weapon? Is it something they can do inside of combat, or do they have to meditate, or what? As for the hit die, I'm thinking you should take out some abilities if it's going to be eight. Otherwise, awesome.

EDIT: I like swords too.

Yossarian
2006-07-04, 11:29 PM
I like it. It does have a lot of class features, but generally they're nothing to get worried about; they're just cool flavor stuff, mostly. Should Consecrate Weapon really be based off of hit dice rather than class level, though? It's their one Big Cool Thing, and yet anyone with a three-level dip in the class can do it just as well as a pure-classed Hashisheen.

Also, anyone worried about having so many class features and skills and getting a d8 hit die should compare this class to the Scout, who gets more and generally better features (bonus feat options!) and more skill points and gets a d8 too. Yet scouts aren't exactly overpowered.

PhoeKun
2006-07-04, 11:32 PM
A handy tip: Abilities derived from a class are usually powered by class levels. Abilities derived from race or other innate talents are usually powered by hit dice.

It's a pretty well made class. I'll admit, I first thought "ninja-assassin", but there's enough to distinguish it, so it's fine.

TimeWizard
2006-07-04, 11:40 PM
How long does holy zeal last? and dagger specialization should be reworded as "weapon focus: dagger. If [this] already has WF: dagger, he instead gains Weapon specialization dagger. If he already has WS: dagger this ability is wasted"

Piedmon_Sama
2006-07-04, 11:52 PM
Thanks for the advice, all. *

-I wasn't sure at first, but after the comparison to the Scout I feel much better about keeping the Hitdie at a d8. *I see this guy taking his share of Attacks of Opportunity once he springs at a well-guarded target, so I want him to be able to take a few solid hits.

-I altered Consecrate Weapon to equal his class level, to discourage multiclassing. *I also decided activating it should be a swift action, so he can do it even in the middle of a melee if needed. *

-I set Holy Zeal to last for a number of hours after the rituals equal to his class level. *That may be awkward at earlier levels, but ideally this is a character who would prepare for any encounter ahead of time anyway. *

-Green Magus's suggestion on Dagger Focus made sense to me, so I altered it so now Hashisheen will be even more encouraged to employ the dagger as their primary weapon.

Zincorium
2006-07-05, 02:13 AM
Just a note, and if you're into historical accuracy to a fault you've already implemented it, but if you happen to have a class with a name that means 'eater of hashish', try and be sure that you have some sort of rule system on hand for actually, y'know, doing that.

Alternately, just call them Asassins.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-07-05, 03:37 AM
* * Just a note, and if you're into historical accuracy to a fault you've already implemented it, but if you happen to have a class with a name that means 'eater of hashish', try and be sure that you have some sort of rule system on hand *for actually, y'know, doing that.

* *Alternately, just call them Asassins.

I'm not, actually, since I'm pretty sure historical hashishin didn't have Uncanny Dodge (nor did anyone ever IRL)....

Also, all I put was that it takes an hour to both imbibe/consume the hasish and perform the rituals involved in it. *I'm not really interested in making up rules for how long it takes you to get properly stoned, and I deliberately left it ambiguous as to whether the Hashishin visions are true or false. *That can be for the player/DM to decide. *

Altair_the_Vexed
2006-07-05, 04:18 AM
Now I know we're not supposed to discuss real life drugs on here, so I'll try to get round that.

I think it might help if you dissociate Hashish from real world cannabis. You could rule that Hashish is a poison to which the Hashisheen have become tolerant. For anyone else, Hashish is an injested, or if burnt, inhaled poison, causing paranoia and confusion, dealing 1d4 temporary Int, Wis & Dex damage, as both primary and secondary effects, save DC 18. Multiple doses are culmalitive.

The Hashisheen has access to this sacred substance and is able to use it to enhance the impact caused by his attacks by dosing associates of his victims to induce fear.

Raum
2006-07-05, 09:05 AM
Sigh, had to repress (not entirely successfully) all the comments on the bad history... Anyway, moving on to the class itself.
Alignment - Why the non-chaotic limitation for a class with a history of terrorism?
Poison Use - The limitation to blades is probably superfluous.
Consecrate Weapon - This is overpowered. The maximum enhancement should be kept to +5.
Holy Zeal - The morale bonus to attack and damage probably needs to be dropped. Especially since you're already giving a bonus with Consecrate Weapon.
Resist Pain - I'm unclear on what effects are caused by pain. Can you clarify?
Staredown - "...can demoralize any opponent." This statement may need to be removed or clarified. Opponents immune to fear shouldn't be subject to it.
Holy Terror - Normally intimidate uses a modified level check, are you changing this to a save? If so, what is the DC?
Staggering Strike - Most such abilities use a mechanic where the attacker trades Sneak Attack dice for it, have you considered switching to something similar?
As for the class' AB, between his BAB, Consecrate Weapon, and Holy Zeal you've given the ability to have an AB nearly 50% better than a fighter's. Add this to relatively good hit points and two good saves and you have an overpowered class. I'd recommend either losing the attack bonuses entirely or toning them down and changing it to only one good save.

Closet_Skeleton
2006-07-05, 09:21 AM
Hashishim don't eat hasish, all drugs are outlawed under Muslim law and Hashishim are fanatical zealots. The name comes from their founder, the old man of the mountain Hasaan I Sabbah. The hashish thing is just bad-mouthing from their enemies. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time uncorrect rumours got given rules in a fantasy game so you could if you wanted to.

I generally hate the idea of coming up with new base classes though. Cleric, Wizard, Rogue and Fighter are all base classes. Radiant Servant of Pelor and Thayan Knight are priestiege classes. Classes based around a specific order tend not to be base classes, base classes are all generic (well, that was the original intent before Wizards got bored with it). There's already an Assassin class, if you want to be a Hashishim I would make a variant where they got divine instead of arcane spells and possibly change the saving throw v.s. poison benift to saving throw v.s. fear.

Of course, from the look of all the base classes that have appeared on this board I would guess everyone already has a forgorn conclusion and won't be swayed at all by my ranting.

Yossarian
2006-07-05, 10:08 AM
Consecrate Weapon - This is overpowered. The maximum enhancement should be kept to +5.


OK, having it be an enhancement bonus is kind of goofy as arguably that makes it possible to beat epic damage reduction at level 3. But in terms of what it does, it's not exactly overpowered seeing as it's only once per day.

The duration of Holy Zeal, on the other hand, does sound like it's a bit much. The bonuses aren't that much higher than a bard's Inspire Courage (and bards can boost the bonuses from that), but they get the benefits for vastly longer periods. So yes, that part should probably get toned down.



Of course, from the look of all the base classes that have appeared on this board I would guess everyone already has a forgorn conclusion and won't be swayed at all by my ranting.

Should we? The only reasoning offered in your rant is "that's the way it was." For a lot of things, base classes simply offer a superior mechanic in comparison to prestige classes.

Closet_Skeleton
2006-07-05, 10:26 AM
Should we? The only reasoning offered in your rant is "that's the way it was." For a lot of things, base classes simply offer a superior mechanic in comparison to prestige classes.

So basically your saying "Prestige classes are dumb".

Okay.

Raum
2006-07-05, 11:18 AM
OK, having it be an enhancement bonus is kind of goofy as arguably that makes it possible to beat epic damage reduction at level 3. But in terms of what it does, it's not exactly overpowered seeing as it's only once per day.

The duration of Holy Zeal, on the other hand, does sound like it's a bit much. The bonuses aren't that much higher than a bard's Inspire Courage (and bards can boost the bonuses from that), but they get the benefits for vastly longer periods. So yes, that part should probably get toned down.
A limitation of once per day isn't much of a limitation. You're not too likely to need it more than once...how many times will you be fighting the BBEG in a single day after all? Generally, most encounters in a multiple encounter day will be minions you don't need an extra +10 to hit.

My problems with it is simply that it's easily abusable. It gives the character a free 10 points of power attack once per day. Were I a hashisheen, I'd carry a great sword just for this one use per day. Holy Zeal makes up for the non-proficiency penalty and the +10 enhancement means I can get an extra 20 points of damage from power attack while still having my normal attack bonus.

Yossarian
2006-07-05, 12:01 PM
At level 20, doing 30 extra points of damage as a once-a-day ability does not really qualify as "abuse".



So basically your saying "Prestige classes are dumb".

Okay.

Not quite, but not far off in a lot of cases. Ultimately, all that making a base class actually means is that you have a class with a 20-level progression, which often just tend to work better. Traditionally base classes were very generic and broad in scope, but that's really not an intrisically necessary feature of having a 20-level class. Where prestige classes work (and base classes generally don't) is where you have classes explicitly designed to be combined with others.

Seffbasilisk
2006-07-05, 12:07 PM
[list] Alignment - Why the non-chaotic limitation for a class with a history of terrorism?
Poison Use - The limitation to blades is probably superfluous.

What is Terrorism to one is freedom-fighting to another and guerilla warfare to a third. It just depends on what side you're on. And the need to avoid chaos is for the focused mindset. Hasaan's followers were focused.

Poison use limited to blades makes sense because they were known for the 'i'm going to walk up and stab you in the face' not 'oh no! my soup killed me!'

Raum
2006-07-05, 05:39 PM
What is Terrorism to one is freedom-fighting to another and guerilla warfare to a third. It just depends on what side you're on.
And all of the above fall under the chaotic alignment.


And the need to avoid chaos is for the focused mindset. Hasaan's followers were focused.
This makes more sense to me.


Poison use limited to blades makes sense because they were known for the 'i'm going to walk up and stab you in the face' not 'oh no! my soup killed me!'
If you're talking history, the Isma'ilis weren't known for using poison at all. As for the game mechanics, I'd let the background / social stigma / story be the deterrence for using poison on something other than blades. Mind, I didn't say the limitation was bad, just that I considered it unnecessary.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-07-05, 06:09 PM
Woah! *Lots of replies out nowhere! *I can't say I'm too displeased, being the attention whore I am, but sorry if I miss someone's comments.


Sigh, had to repress (not entirely successfully) all the comments on the bad history... *Anyway, moving on to the class itself.


Hashishim don't eat hasish, all drugs are outlawed under Muslim law and Hashishim are fanatical zealots. The name comes from their founder, the old man of the mountain Hasaan I Sabbah. The hashish thing is just bad-mouthing from their enemies. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time uncorrect rumours got given rules in a fantasy game so you could if you wanted to.

Again, I am not aiming for historical accuracy here anymore than WotC was with their Samurai class. *I'm willing to work off the popular image that "Hashisheen" brings to mind plus 5 minutes of scanning Wikipedia. *


Alignment - Why the non-chaotic limitation for a class with a history of terrorism?

The Hashishim are intensely trained and undergo rigorous initiations. *It requires a degree of mental discipline the chaotic alignments don't allow. *Also you pretty much have to be willing to kill yourself on your boss's say so. *

Also, please keep any discussions on what is or isn't terrorism to someone else's thread, thanks. *This discussion is about game mechanics, not political science. *


Poison Use - The limitation to blades is probably superfluous.

I probably didn't make this clear, but what I meant to say was that Hashishin don't normally employ poison other than on their blades. *Not that you can't. *


Consecrate Weapon - This is overpowered. *The maximum enhancement should be kept to +5.

But only for essentially one attack. *And yes, you can "save" it for the most challenging encounter that day (and you should) but you will be a degree less useful through the encounters leading up to that. *I like the idea of the Hashisheen being able to make one overwhelming strike a day. *But you did raise a good point when you mentioned "keeping a greatsword on hand just for this." On the other hand, you have to consider that the Hashisheen is an assassin, and needs to keep weapons that are at the least concealable if he's even going to get close to his target.


Holy Zeal - The morale bonus to attack and damage probably needs to be dropped. *Especially since you're already giving a bonus with Consecrate Weapon.

It's meant to stack, actually, so that Consecrate Weapon is even deadlier. *


Resist Pain - I'm unclear on what effects are caused by pain. *Can you clarify?

That was tough, since in D&D effectively every character has the miraculous ability to shrug off horrendous amounts of pain. *I translated it to exhaustion, so perhaps a better name for the ability would be "Resist fatigue."


Staredown - "...can demoralize any opponent." *This statement may need to be removed or clarified. *Opponents immune to fear shouldn't be subject to it.

I imagined that went without saying. *It's an intimidate check, so anything that would normally be immune to an intimidate check won't be affected.


Holy Terror - Normally intimidate uses a modified level check, are you changing this to a save? *If so, what is the DC?

Again, I did say it was an intimidate check which means all the normal things to that apply. *It's a level check and not a Saving Throw. *


Staggering Strike - Most such abilities use a mechanic where the attacker trades Sneak Attack dice for it, have you considered switching to something similar?

The Hashisheen doesn't get such a great Sneak Attack anyway, and this ability is somewhat hampered by its one-round duration. *I don't see why it would require such a cost.


As for the class' AB, between his BAB, Consecrate Weapon, and Holy Zeal you've given the ability to have an AB nearly 50% better than a fighter's. *Add this to relatively good hit points and two good saves and you have an overpowered class. *I'd recommend either losing the attack bonuses entirely or toning them down and changing it to only one good save

The Ranger manages with two good saves, a D8 Hitdie, and a full BAB. *I will lower the duration of Holy Zeal though, that decision was made hastily. *

Piedmon_Sama
2006-07-05, 06:24 PM
If you're talking history, the Isma'ilis weren't known for using poison at all. *As for the game mechanics, I'd let the background / social stigma / story be the deterrence for using poison on something other than blades. *Mind, I didn't say the limitation was bad, just that I considered it unnecessary. *

Actually, that's one thing I did try to look up before writing this class. *I wasn't sure if the Hashisheen would have used poison or not, and I couldn't find anything, but the idea of an assassin who can't employ poison didn't feel right to me. *

Since there's no reason for it to be there, actually, I'll remove Poison Use. *I wasn't really sure of it in the first place and only included it because it felt ubiquitous. *

EDIT: Changes for the 3rd draft of the Hashisheen:
-Removed Poison Use
-Holy Zeal is now an ability that can be activated as a free action and lasts a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the Hashisheen's level + his wisdom modifier.
-Limited Consecrate Weapon to melee weapons only.

Raum
2006-07-05, 06:51 PM
Again, I am not aiming for historical accuracy here anymore than WotC was with their Samurai class. I'm willing to work off the popular image that "Hashisheen" brings to mind plus 5 minutes of scanning Wikipedia.
That's cool, it's just I tend to get irritated by many of the mistakes or outright misrepresentations made by popular history.


Also, please keep any discussions on what is or isn't terrorism to someone else's thread, thanks. This discussion is about game mechanics, not political science.
The comment on terrorism was sourced by your statement in the original post, specifically "Using as much terror as force..." in no way was it a reference to history. It's simply that use of terror as a weapon isn't generally considered lawful. I do understand the requirement if it's limited to a single organization under the control of an "old man of the mountain" but your history also stated the order had fragmented and no longer owed allegiance to a single ruler. Hence my question.


I probably didn't make this clear, but what I meant to say was that Hashishin don't normally employ poison other than on their blades. Not that you can't.
Ahh, cool.


But only for essentially one attack. And yes, you can "save" it for the most challenging encounter that day (and you should) but you will be a degree less useful through the encounters leading up to that. I like the idea of the Hashisheen being able to make one overwhelming strike a day. But you did raise a good point when you mentioned "keeping a greatsword on hand just for this." I think what I might do is limit Consecrated Strike to dagger-type weapons.

It's meant to stack, actually, so that Consecrate Weapon is even deadlier. What I think I'll do is remove the "enhancement" bit so that DR can still apply.
That sounds better. I'd recommend making it a Divine bonus rather than untyped though.


That was tough, since in D&D effectively every character has the miraculous ability to shrug off horrendous amounts of pain. I translated it to exhaustion, so perhaps a better name for the ability would be "Resist fatigue."
Perhaps the Endurance feat?


I imagined that went without saying. It's an intimidate check, so anything that would normally be immune to an intimidate check won't be affected.

Again, I did say it was an intimidate check which means all the normal things to that apply. It's a level check and not a Saving Throw.
You'll probably need to change the terminology used for Holy Terror, it's currently stating a save is made or failed by the victim / target.


The Hashisheen doesn't get such a great Sneak Attack anyway, and this ability is somewhat hampered by its one-round duration. I don't see why it would require such a cost.
The only reason I think it may be required is because the save DC is based on damage. A 6d6 Sneak Attack averages 21 points without even including other damage. Add 2 for a dagger, 2 for strength, 2 more for the dagger's enhancement bonus and you have a DC of 27 without even including Consecrated Strike or Holy Zeal. This amounts to automatically staggering the target every time you get a successful sneak attack. Base the DC on something other than damage and I'll agree with you. :)


The Ranger manages with two good saves, a D8 Hitdie, and a full BAB. I will lower the duration of Holy Zeal though, that decision was made hastily.
True, but the ranger doesn't have quite so many ways to raise his AB.

EDIT: If you remove poison use, you may want to add Death Attack or something similar.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-07-05, 07:06 PM
That sounds better. *I'd recommend making it a Divine bonus rather than untyped though.

Good thinking.


Perhaps the Endurance feat?

That feat, though, doesn't help them resist outright pain, too. There are some effects in D&D that are meant to stem from causing the target overwhelming pain (Pain Touch, for example) and this gives a bonus to resist those too.


You'll probably need to change the terminology used for Holy Terror, it's currently stating a save is made or failed by the victim / target.

Oh. My mistake, then, fix that right away.


The only reason I think it may be required is because the save DC is based on damage. *A 6d6 Sneak Attack averages 21 points without even including other damage. *Add 2 for a dagger, 2 for strength, 2 more for the dagger's enhancement bonus and you have a DC of 27 without even including Consecrated Strike or Holy Zeal. *This amounts to automatically staggering the target every time you get a successful sneak attack. *Base the DC on something other than damage and I'll agree with you. *:)

Good point. Probably better if it's 10 + 1/2 Hashisheen level.


EDIT: *If you remove poison use, you may want to add Death Attack or something similar. *

My thought right now is to give him Quick Draw as a bonus feat. What I've been picturing is this character would use a scimitar or rapier for his "typical" weapon, until he wanted to use one of his signature attacks, when it would become time to whip out the dagger. Quick Draw would be very useful and help him avoid TWF if he didn't want to go that route.

Umbral_Arcanist
2006-07-05, 08:26 PM
And all of the above fall under the chaotic alignment.

This makes more sense to me.

If you're talking history, the Isma'ilis weren't known for using poison at all. As for the game mechanics, I'd let the background / social stigma / story be the deterrence for using poison on something other than blades. Mind, I didn't say the limitation was bad, just that I considered it unnecessary.


How is guerilla combat chaotic??

Anyway the non-chaotic alignment doesn't mean that they can't act in a non-chaotic manner, it just means that they need more discipline than a true chaotic alignment normally allows, kinda like how bards need to be non-lawful




I like this class quite a bit, i can't really comment on it's power level, but it seems ok, not blatantly OP or UP

good job

Redghost
2006-10-03, 11:44 AM
Wow this class is awesome and a perfect add to my eurolight\eastern heavy homebrew I run. I absolutely love this idea. Thanks for posting it