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Kaihaku
2009-02-04, 09:05 AM
I was making some unfavorable comparisons between the OGL and the GSL when something struck me...


8. Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.

I don't have my copy of Pathfinder with me so I can't check the license they provide. Is anything in Pathfinder not Open Game Content?

ericgrau
2009-02-04, 12:26 PM
Yes, lots of Pathfinder is not Open Game Content. It claims to be its own separate system. Dunno if they properly distinguish the open stuff from the rest like they should, though.

RukiTanuki
2009-02-04, 01:48 PM
Here's the bottom of page 2:


Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the contents of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content might be reproduced in any form without written permission. To learn more about the Open Game License and the d20 System License, please visit wizards.com/d20.

The Pathfinder RPG is published by Paizo Publishing, LLC under the Open Game License v 1.0a Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc. All other trademarks are property of Paizo Publishing, LLC. 2008 Paizo Publishing.

Kaihaku
2009-02-04, 05:57 PM
Love the Tanooki avatar. Very nice.

Interesting, thanks for the responses. A few ponderings...

1. The OGL specifically states that character creation information and certain character progression information (experience points for one) cannot be shared. Does this mean that Wizard's versions cannot be propagated or that any version of that information (like Pathfinder's) needs to excluded from the OGL?

2. From the license it sounds like most of Pathfinder is distributed under the OGL. So, if I wanted (which I don't actually, just curious) to create a Pathfinder SRD online that would be legal as long as I specifically followed the license? More relevant, if someone (don't look at me, I have other projects brewing) wanted to propagate a list of specific changes from the OGL SRD to Pathfinder that would legal as long as they didn't share non-OGL information?

turkishproverb
2009-02-04, 06:28 PM
1. Its a grey area, but basically your right.

2. Not unless the parts they add are under OGL as well, rather than just them taking existing parts.

Kaihaku
2009-02-04, 06:46 PM
I'm a programmer so my experience with open source licenses might be leading me to make some assumptions that are not valid but...

The OGL allows Use ("Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content) of the SRD. Doesn't the material modified as part of that Use, unless specifically excluded, fall under the license? Paizo may be rewriting the large chunks of the rules but wouldn't those alterations still fall under the OGL?

Fax Celestis
2009-02-04, 06:49 PM
Edited material has to remain under the OGL. New material can go either way. In the case of the XP tables, Paizo made new ones, so they're okay.

Kaihaku
2009-02-04, 07:25 PM
Edited material has to remain under the OGL. New material can go either way. In the case of the XP tables, Paizo made new ones, so they're okay.

Alright, that's how I thought it 'should' work. Since most of Pathfinder is edited, abet heavily, then it remains under the OGL.

Fax Celestis
2009-02-04, 07:31 PM
Alright, that's how I thought it 'should' work. Since most of Pathfinder is edited, abet heavily, then it remains under the OGL.

Correct. It's part of the reason they're distributing the beta for free.

PinkysBrain
2009-02-04, 07:48 PM
1. The OGL specifically states that character creation information and certain character progression information (experience points for one) cannot be shared.
No it doesn't ...

Licenses are not that difficult to read, I suggest trying it :) There are too many preconceptions about open (source) licenses, such as them being hard to understand ... they aren't difficult to understand, some people are just very bad at not letting preconceptions intrude while reading them.

Only the D20 system license stated anything about character creation ... that license is dead and doesn't apply to Pathfinder. D&D character creation information isn't open game content because it's only in the PHB/DMG and not the SRD. The PHB/DMG are not licensed under the OGL, only the SRD is.

Paizo is perfectly free to come up with their own character creation process (it doesn't even need to be entirely original, since rules as such aren't copyrighteable). Which is what they did.

2. From the license it sounds like most of Pathfinder is distributed under the OGL. So, if I wanted (which I don't actually, just curious) to create a Pathfinder SRD online that would be legal as long as I specifically followed the license?
DUH.

More relevant, if someone (don't look at me, I have other projects brewing) wanted to propagate a list of specific changes from the OGL SRD to Pathfinder that would legal as long as they didn't share non-OGL information?
DUH.

Kaihaku
2009-02-04, 11:24 PM
No it doesn't ...

Thanks for clarifying. I managed to confuse myself yesterday so I started this thread in hopes that helpful individuals like yourself could assist me in getting a better grasp of this.


Licenses are not that difficult to read, I suggest trying it :)

Nice snipe.


There are too many preconceptions about open (source) licenses, such as them being hard to understand ... they aren't difficult to understand, some people are just very bad at not letting preconceptions intrude while reading them.

Fair enough. I'm not sure exactly where I strayed into 'preconceptions' but obviously such was the case. I have a distrust of many businesses which make use of open licenses so that prejudice must have skewed my perception at some point.


Only the D20 system license stated anything about character creation ... that license is dead and doesn't apply to Pathfinder.

D&D character creation information isn't open game content because it's only in the PHB/DMG and not the SRD. The PHB/DMG are not licensed under the OGL, only the SRD is.

That was my original understanding, basically that it functions identical to a software open source license, but I got muddled yesterday. Thanks for clarifying.


Paizo is perfectly free to come up with their own character creation process (it doesn't even need to be entirely original, since rules as such aren't copyrighteable). Which is what they did.

DUH.

DUH.

Thank you.

Thanks to all respondents, I wanted to make certain that I had a clear understanding of the OGL and now I feel that is the case.