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Fax Celestis
2006-07-06, 09:27 PM
The Matador is a character class devoted to dodging, weaving, and performing cool tricks with a cape.

Abilities: Dexterity and Charisma are a must for you, as is Intelligence to a lesser extent. Wisdom or Strength might be a good second choice.

Races: Humans, elves, half-elves, and halflings are usually the only races daring enough to be matadors, though half-orc and dwarven matadors are not unheard of.

Alignment: Matadors, though they can be of any alignment, tend towards chaos.

Hit Die: d8

Starting Gold: 3d4x10 gp.

Starting Age: As fighter (PH 109).

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Matadors are proficient with all simple weapons, as well as the rapier. They are also proficient with light armor, but not shields.

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level): Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Tumble, Use Rope

Dodge: At 1st level, a matador gains the Dodge feat.

Taunt: At 1st level, a matador gains the ability to taunt his opponents and goad them into attacking him. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to half his class level plus his Charisma bonus.

As a swift action, you may taunt one opponent within 100 feet and goad them into attacking you. You must first make an Intimidate or Bluff check, opposed by your opponent's Sense Motive check. If successful, your opponent immediately focuses on you over all other opponents. Most times, they will attempt to move to melee rainge as quickly as possible, but some attackers (like archers and spellcsaters) will instead choose to remain at a distance but stull focus on you.

An opponent compelled to act in this manner is not thrown into a mindless rage and ndoes not move to attack you in melee in a manner thta would inentionally provoke attacks of opportunity.

The effects of this last for a number of rounds equal to 5 plus your charisma bonus.

Mobility: At 2nd level, a matador gains the Mobility feat.

Matador Moves: Matador Moves are abilities that help a matador resist bull rushes, charges, and overrun attacks, whether from mounted opponents or opponents on foot. They are only usable while the matador is wearing light or no armor.

At 2nd level, a matador gains the ability to defend against bull rushes, charges, and overrun attacks. With a DC 20 Bluff check, a matador may resist a bull rush, charge, or overrun attack. If successful, the matador halts the attacker in the square in front of him. He may not make an attack of opportunity.

At 7th level, a matador improves his ability to defend against bull rushes, charges, and overrun attacks. When the matador is subjected to one of the aforementioned attacks, he may attempt a feint. If successful, he may immediately make an attack of opportunity. If he does, he may treat his weapon as if it were set for a charge, even if it is a weapon that is not normally able to be set for a charge. If he is successful, the attacker halts in the square before the matador.

At 12th level, a matador improves his ability to defend against bull rushes, charges, and overrun attacks. When the matador is subjected to one of the aforementioned attacks, he may attempt a trip attack. Treat this trip attack as if the Matador has the Improved Trip feat. If he is successful, the attacker halts in the square before the matador.

At 17th level, a matador improves his ability to defend against bull rushes, charges, and overrun attacks. When the matador is subjected to one of the aforementioned attacks, he may immediately take a five-foot step as long as the move takes him out of the path of the attack. The attacker moves into the square the matador was in before his five-foot step and halts. The matador may then make an attack of opportunity.

Combat Expertise: At 3rd level, a matador gains the Combat Expertise feat.

Cloak Maneuver: Cloak Maneuvers help the matador fight his opponents. In order to use a Cloak Maneuver, the matador must have a free hand, be wearing a cloak, and be wearing light or no armor. Wearing a weighted cloak (which adds a 50g cost) gives a matador a +2 modifier to all checks made using Cloak Maneuvers (but not attack or damage rolls).

At 3rd level, a matador gains the ability to use their cloak defensively. While the matador has a free hand and is wearing a cloak, he may add one point to his Armor Class for each point of Intelligence bonus he has. This increase may not pass the matador's class level.

At 6th level, a matador improves his ability to defend himself with his cloak. While the matador has a free hand and is wearing a cloak, he may add his class level to his Armor class while fighting defensively.

At 9th level, a matador gains the ability to disarm opponents with his cloak. While the matador has a free hand and is wearing a cloak, he may attempt to disarm opponents as if he had the Improved Disarm feat.

At 12th level, a matador improves his ability to defend himself with his cloak. While the matador has a free hand and is wearing a cloak, he may deflect arrows as if he had the Deflect Arrows feat.

At 15th level, a matador improves his ability to defend himself with his cloak. After a successful disarm, he may attempt a Reflex save. If successful, he catches the weapon he disarmed in his free hand. He may immediately begin using this weapon, but suffers the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting (if they apply).

At 18th level, a matador gains the ability to hide in plain sight as long as he is wearing a cloak and has a free hand.

Combat Reflexes: At 4th level, a matador gains the Combat Reflexes feat.

Weapon Finesse: At 4th level, a matador gains the Weapon Finesse feat.

Evasion: At 5th level, a matador can avoid even magical and unusal attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a succesful saving throw, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can only be used if the matador is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless matador does not gain the benefits of evasion.

Improved Evasion: At 8th level, a matador's evasion ability imrpoves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon's breath weapon or a ''fireball'', but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless matador does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Minor Cloak of Displacement: At 10th level, any cloak a matador wears has the effects of a minor cloak of displacement, in addition to any powers it normally has.

Improved Dodge: At 11th level, a matador improves his ability to dodge. He can attempt to negate attacks made by the target of his Dodge feat. If this opponent attacks him, he may use an immediate action to make a d20 roll. The result is added to his AC and touch AC against that single opponent for the rest of the round. This ability is only usable while the matador is wearing a cloak and has a free hand.

Acrobatic Strike: At 13th level, a matador gains the Acrobatic Strike feat. If he succeeds in using a Tumble to avoid an opponent's attack of opportunity, he gains a +4 bonus on the next attack he makes against that foe as long as the attack occurs before the end of his current turn. This ability is only usable while the matador is wearing a cloak and has a free hand.

Cloak Dance: At 14th level, a matador gains the Cloak Dance feat. He may take a move action to obscure his exact position. Until his next turn, he has concealment. Alternatively, he may take a full-round action to entirely obscure his exact position. Until his next action, he has total concealment. This ability is only usable while the matador is wearing a cloak and has a free hand.

Major Cloak of Displacement: At 20th level, any cloak a matador wears has the effects of a greater cloak of displacement, in addition to any powers it normally has.

Religion: Most matadors worship gods of trickery (like Garl Glittergold, Olidammara, and Yondalla), though elven matadors worship Corellon Larethian almost as a whole.

Other Classes: Fighters and rangers admire matador's daring and flair, while paladins tend to see matadors as flashy upstarts.

Combat: Matadors fare best in one-on-one combat, though they're no pushover in larger combats. Their best tactic is to render their opponents helpless--through tripping or disarming them--and let their allies finish them off.

Matador Progression
{table]
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special

1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Dodge, Taunt

2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Matador Moves (Bluff), Mobility

3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Cloak Maneuver (Defensive Twirl), Combat Expertise

4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse

5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Evasion

6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Cloak Maneuver (Defensive Flourish)

7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Matador Moves (Feint)

8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Improved Evasion

9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Cloak Maneuver (Improved Disarm)

10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Minor Cloak of Displacement

11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +3 Improved Dodge

12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Matador Moves (Trip), Cloak Maneuver (Deflect Arrows)

13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Acrobatic Strike

14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +4 Cloak Dance

15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +5 Cloak Maneuver (Catch)

16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 -

17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Matador Moves (5-foot Step)

18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 Cloak Maneuver (Hide In Plain Sight)

19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 -

20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Major Cloak of Displacement
[/table]

Sugar5
2006-07-07, 12:04 AM
I kinda like it.

Hey u seem pritty good at making classes would u be interested in makeing one for me if so ill give u some details that i would like u to include.

Dancing_Zephyr
2006-07-07, 03:15 AM
Maybe you should give them some sort of taunt ability, as a matador he does need to attract attention to himself for his abilities to be useful.

Jaltum
2006-07-07, 07:55 AM
I like it a lot, although flying with the cape seems a little wonky.

I second the vote for a taunt--it fits perfectly.

I feel like the armor limitation should be light or none. Medium seems a little too much. He might be kinda fragile otherwise, but on the other hand, the whole point is that he doesn't get hit. I know high AC is high AC, but medium armor doesn't seem to fit, to me. But I don't know anything about balance, so take that with a grain of salt.

Ikkitosen
2006-07-07, 10:13 AM
Nice class, but too good for dipping. Dodge and Mobility are highly desirable and are pre-requisites for a lot of things. Pushing Mobility and Combat Expertise back a level would prevent such gratuitous dipping.

Note that at 6th level a Matador can fight defensively and, seemingly as well as the +3 AC from tumble ranks he'd get +6 from his Matador levels, +8 from 18 dex (more if higher dex from race, magic, etc.) and +4 from a chain shirt. AC 31 with no magic for -4 to hit? Too good, far too good.

Changing the "double dex if fighting with one free hand" to be based upon another stat would help, introducing a little MAD. Making it unarmoured only would be in liine with existing abilities but might be a bit bland.

Beholden_Caulfield
2006-07-07, 12:06 PM
I don't understand why the matador wears armor. Matadors IRL wear extremely tight-fitting clothes so that the bull's horns don't grab hold of anything. Spanish legends abound with stories of peasant farmers who go out into a field late at night, buck-naked, to practice fighting bulls. I understand the mechanical reasoning for it, but flavor-wise I'm having trouble with the concept.

I'd also like to point out that the matador is the guy who stabs the final blow in an already exhausted bull. He's supposed to land an exceptionally precise stab into a soft spot in the bull's skull, killing him in just one jab. To reflect this important aspect of bull-fighting, I'd swap out Combat Reflexes for Improved Critical, since a real matador only ever fights one creature at a time.

Nocte
2006-07-07, 01:43 PM
I agree with Beholden_Caulfield they don't use armor, they use agility to avoid the bull. And Matador is the one who finishes the bull with a kind of sword called "Banderilla". The one who perfoms the bullfighting is the "Torero". Maybe this class could be the two of them a Matador and Torero.

There is a kind of bullfighting with horses called "Cajoneo".

I vote for the taunt thing too.
---------------------------------
I'm against bullfighting, it's cruel. But I love this class, I'll try it soon :D.

Fax Celestis
2006-07-07, 02:08 PM
I kinda like it.

Hey u seem pritty good at making classes would u be interested in makeing one for me if so ill give u some details that i would like u to include.
PM me.

Fax Celestis
2006-07-07, 02:29 PM
I like it a lot, although flying with the cape seems a little wonky.

I second the vote for a taunt--it fits perfectly.

I feel like the armor limitation should be light or none. Medium seems a little too much. He might be kinda fragile otherwise, but on the other hand, the whole point is that he doesn't get hit. I know high AC is high AC, but medium armor doesn't seem to fit, to me. But I don't know anything about balance, so take that with a grain of salt.

The flight thing is because it makes a decent reason to stay in the class for 20 levels.

Taunt now included. Check it out.

And the armor has been lessened. I was thinking about that before I went to bed, and decided to remove it in the morning. It's fixed now.

Fax Celestis
2006-07-07, 02:33 PM
I don't understand why the matador wears armor. *Matadors IRL wear extremely tight-fitting clothes so that the bull's horns don't grab hold of anything. *Spanish legends abound with stories of peasant farmers who go out into a field late at night, buck-naked, to practice fighting bulls. *I understand the mechanical reasoning for it, but flavor-wise I'm having trouble with the concept.

I'd also like to point out that the matador is the guy who stabs the final blow in an already exhausted bull. *He's supposed to land an exceptionally precise stab into a soft spot in the bull's skull, killing him in just one jab. *To reflect this important aspect of bull-fighting, I'd swap out Combat Reflexes for Improved Critical, since a real matador only ever fights one creature at a time.
I understand that's how the real world is. I put in Combat Reflexes so that a PC would be able to handle being charged multiple times in a round.

I don't like the Improved Critical feat, especially since that the PC will be able to resist charges with a weapon set against the charge (even if it weren't a weapon he could set for a charge normally).

But I do see your point. Perhaps if we gave him the Einhander feat instead?

Jaltum
2006-07-07, 04:50 PM
Yeah, I understand the desire for a capstone thing at 20th level, flight just didn't seem like that good of a fit to me. Would it even be that useful to a Matador, given the focus of his other abilities? They're all about being attacked and getting AoOs.

Most of those capstone feats seem to be the normal talent of the class, carried to such a level that it's downright supernatural. (IE, high-level ninjas can move through walls.) What about a displacement effect, like a displacer beast has?

EDIT: How about at a certain level, any cloak worn by the matador can be treated as a Minor Cloak of Displacement, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cloakofDisplacementMinor), with an upgrade down the line.

I'm not sure when would be the best time, but it seems like you could check it against the WBL guidelines to see when one's considered not to be hugely unbalancing.

Fax Celestis
2006-07-07, 05:46 PM
...would that overlap or replace the cloak's inherent magical powers (if any)?

That does sound like a good idea though. Let me edit it in as a preliminary.

Jaltum
2006-07-07, 06:20 PM
Thaaaat's over my head, I'm afraid. I don't know if it would be disruptive.

My guess is yes, because the one item per slot thing is pretty firmly entrenched, and even if you don't know of any cloak that might interfere in some game-breaking way, there could be one in a splatbook tomorrow.

OTOH, it's an ability of the character; a character with Evasion can still wear rings even though the Ring of Evasion exists. So. I dunno.

Fireball.Man.Guy.
2006-07-07, 06:46 PM
However, the cloak is simply for flavor, as many of his abilities focus on it. No high level Matador would be caught dead and looted without a cloak.

Closet_Skeleton
2006-07-07, 07:25 PM
I agree with Beholden_Caulfield they don't use armor, they use agility to avoid the bull. And Matador is the one who finishes the bull with a kind of sword called "Banderilla". The one who perfoms the bullfighting is the "Torero". Maybe this class could be the two of them a Matador and Torero.

Maybe you could give it a choice of ability selection like Rangers do so you could represent both with one class.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-07-07, 08:11 PM
I like this class, but I'd agree the bonus feats make it a little too useful for level-dipping. If I used this class in one of my games, I'd probably say Matadors are not allowed to multiclass or stop gaining levels. (And explain it by saying that Matadors are part of a very strict order that doesn't allow training in other classes.)

Aside from that, it looks good to me. It just screams "Einhander! Give me the Einhander feat!"

Closet_Skeleton
2006-07-07, 09:36 PM
Aside from that, it looks good to me. It just screams "Einhander! Give me the Einhander feat!"

Every binned character concept seems to have been rejoicing since they published that feat....

Merlin the Tuna
2006-09-26, 03:21 PM
I like this class, but I'd agree the bonus feats make it a little too useful for level-dipping.

I'd tend to agree. Actually, a lot of this seems like a bit much.

1.) Taunt. It's cool, but I'd probably swap it out for granting Goad (CAdventurer, pg 110) as a bonus feat, maybe extending the range to 30 ft. 50 ft, tops. I mean, 100 feet? Even if the enemy charges you, he can't make it in one round. Even if he's a barbarian in light/no armor. Making Will saves is a lot more standard than making Sense Motive checks, and it's a bit fairer for the target, as Sense Motive isn't a terribly popular skill but Bluff is.

2.) Feats. Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and Weapon Finesse. 5 bonus feats over 4 levels? And he gets more abilities during the span of those levels? These are important feats for qualifying for all sorts of high level nastiness. Just because it's a good idea for a Matador to have these doesn't mean he should get them automatically. The guy's got to use his feat slots for something.

3.) Matador Moves. I like the idea of getting resistance to bull rushes (har). Overrun/trample makes enough sense too. I suppose charge might as well get put on there,while we're at it. But this all seems mighty excessive. If there's one thing that Diplomacy has taught us, it's that flat DCs are a royal pain in the butt. Even Rich's heinously complicated addendum can't save the skill from being utterly breakable. And come on, a DC 20 Bluff check isn't hard at all. It's not like Bluff is some horridly underused skill that PCs aren't going to have ranks in. If Bluff is a class skill, it's usually maxed. At second level, you're basically giving this guy immunity to charges. It doesn't even take him an action! If he had to sacrifice his next attack or move action or something it'd be a different story, but this is a bit over the top. And he gets it at second level.

4.)The Cloak. Again, a cool idea that's getting way too much power during the transition to mechanics. INT modifier to AC has precendence, and it makes enough sense here. However, of the 3 classes that get the ability, two of them (Duelist, Invisible Blade) require it be done with no armor, and the other (Bladesinger) is a PrC that punishes you harshly in other ways. (1/2 spellcasting advancement? Ick.) I'm going to push for Matadors not wearing armor as well. It makes Taunt/Goad make that much more sense. After all, is the other guy really that sure of himself if he's still wearing a chain shirt? But moving on... The only precendence for bonuses to Fighting Defensively that I can think of are the Tumble synergy and the Thief-Acrobat, who despite being a good class is clearly getting the shaft if things like the 9th level ability are allowed. And then we've got another mess of questionable bonus feats. Improved Disarm? Never have I seen a bull hold a sword, and neither have I seen a Matador knock said sword out of said bull's hoof. On top of it all, they all come at the same levels when the character gain feats normally! Even if the feats themselves weren't too much, that would be poor design.

5.) Improved Evasion. It's comes too quickly, especially with how late Evasion comes in. Short of PrCs that grant Evasion (they sometimes mention that if you already have it, you get Imp. Evasion instead -- Master Thrower is an example), you can't normally get the ability before 9th level. And that's with a Monk, who grabs 'standard' Evasion at 2nd. This guy picks up Evasion at 5th and somehow has Improved Evasion at 8. Buh?

Fax Celestis
2006-09-26, 03:30 PM
You have a variety of valid points.

I will point out that this was the second class I made (the first being the Wanderer), and is bound to have some errors.

Edits will be made, though not right now as it's lunchtime.

Merlin the Tuna
2006-09-26, 05:14 PM
Second class? No kidding. I didn't even think to check the date of the post.

Also, it looks like the second half of my post -- in fact, that half that doesn't just look like me being a jerk -- has been cut off. Lemme see if I can find it.

Edit:

Well, looks like it's disappeared into the void. Drat. Well, might as well finish up. I'll get the negative out of the way first, I guess, since I've got a head start on that.

6.) Acrobatic Strike and Tumble Honestly, I'm not sure the class should get these. The matador's mystique rests on his poise. He's not a jumpy little ninja. Heck, he doesn't even run around the ring -- he struts. Nimble as he may be, doing dive rolls to dodge a charging bull seems less like a matador and more like a rodeo clown. And tying things back to the taunt... it kind of hurts your case for being a badass when you have to leap into the mud to keep from getting hit by the other guy.

But in general...

Is the matador an archetype that needs to be in the game? Probably not. Could you build it with existing classes? Probably. To both of those questions, though, I say "Who cares?" It's a fun idea, and it doesn't hurt to add a custom class or six into a game; I like the idea, if not the implementation. The problem here is that the class looks like it never got any "editing" done. This feels like the first cut of a movie -- it's an hour longer than it should be, and it's got all sorts of unnecessary parts to it. But a snip here, and a snip there, and suddenly things look good again.

The taunt definitely needs to stay. But it would make a lot more sense to model after Goad or the Knight's Test of Mettle than making it a skill check. The feats... you've got a good first draft. Now get rid of half of them. Think about what a Matador must have. Everything else is a player's option. All matadors need to dodge -- keep Dodge. Are all matadors mobile? Maybe, maybe not. Can they disarm people particularly well? Er... probably not.

Matador moves. He's gotta have something unique -- no point in making a clone of the Fighter. (Shudder). So he's gotta get something here. Well, what's he good at? Well, avoiding charges. Maybe a +1 dodge bonus vs. charges, gradually increasing as he goes up in level. Thus at the start, the bull isn't getting as much out of charging as against a normal person, eventually the matador can handle a charging bull as well as any other opponent, and eventually he's so used to it that it's EASIER to dodge a charger than a normal person.

But resisting bull rushes/overruns/tramples? I'm not so sure. Aside from the name "bull rush," I'm not sure he should necessarily be good at those. They are strength checks. But then again, he's gotta have something. Maybe grant him an ability that forces the attacker to make a melee touch attack for these, and include the matador's anti-charge dodge bonus in there? And at this point, we're getting into the "rare enough to do something cool" situation that lets tactical feat-like things to come into play.

Somebody else mentioned Einhander for the cloak hoohah. That's a good start -- maybe grant it to the class early, and work on gradually scaling up the cloak work from there. And the Displacement cloak abilites ARE a good idea, and are perfectly inline with the class. Heck, it might not be a bad idea to give the guy Mirror Image a few times per day. Also, the Uncanny Dodge route probably fits this guy more than Evasion does.

This is a very cool idea, but I think that right now it's a cool idea buried under a pile of kitchen sinks. Some of this stuff is utterly without precedent in existing splatbooks -- not that that's inherently bad (or that Wizards puts out perfectly good material all the time...). But this is the sort of thing that needs a good revision before it's ready to see much real-game use, because right now it's just got too much. After all, can you really picture this Matador class losing a bullfight? I mean, a Matador 2 will beat the bull every time. You really think the crowd will watch if the guys don't get gored every now and then?

'Course, could be a chance I'm totally wrong and just an opinionated idiot.

*Shrug*

bosssmiley
2006-09-26, 07:05 PM
Aside from that, it looks good to me. *It just screams "Einhander! Give me the Einhander feat!" *

That's occurred to me too. I'd be inclined to try and do a matador simply as a swashbuckler with some of the tactical feats from PHB 2 (Cloakfighting, Einhander and that 'flash git' feat the name of which escapes me atm *:-[ ).

Something like the Knight's Challenge class ability seems to fit the matador concept. One lightly-armed man staking his life and reputation on his skill against one mighty opponent. The poise and tension suddenly giving way to a mad rush, a single lunge and a triumphant "Ole!". Fight's a little fairer if the bull has iron scales and poisonous breath. 8)

*blargh* What do I know about class building though *:P

Merlin the Tuna
2006-09-29, 10:14 AM
I realize that I've been, shall we say, "less than supportive" thus far. But I've been thinking about this for a little while over the last couple days, and something came to mind.

Would this be better as a Prestige Class than as a Base Class?

It just seems like the concept of a matador has such a narrow focus -- avoiding charges, making quick deathblows -- that giving it 20 levels is more trouble than anything else. You have to give out more abilities to fill space, and you have to provide bonuses that are going to be tangible all of the time, not just conditional bonuses. (Example: the Ranger gets favored enemies, a conditional bonus, but he also receives spellcasting and combat style feats, which provide a bonus regardless of enemy type) But a prestige class... well, there's usually two types. The first is the "blended" type, where you're basically a multiclass character that isn't getting boned quite as hard by the mechanics. (See Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight). The second type is the "specialist" type, where you sacrifice some of your general abilities to emphasize a single ability/idea. (See Thief-Acrobat, Cavalier, Elemental Savant)

Along that same line of reasoning, it seems like the matador, with such a singular focus, might better be served as a PrC. It seems like it refitting it to a 10 level PrC (with light requirements -- entry starting at ~level 6) would maybe make a little more sense.