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afroakuma
2009-02-06, 04:41 PM
What are the methods for increasing the power of shadow spells, such as shadow evocation and shadow conjuration?

Eldariel
2009-02-06, 04:54 PM
There're classes for it. Some Forgotten Realms Initiate-feats and Shadow Weave-feats may do it too, but I can't recall for sure. Out of classes though, at least Shadowcrafter [Underdark] and Shadowcraft Mage [Races of Stone] work.

afroakuma
2009-02-06, 05:02 PM
I was hoping for more feats, but that's definitely a start. Thanks!

RTGoodman
2009-02-06, 05:26 PM
Well, Shadow Weave Magic isn't necessarily what you're looking for, but it could help if you're allowed to use it. By itself it's not TERRIBLY good, but there are a couple of feats that require it that give you better benefits - bonuses against normal Weave-user's spells and defenses, some defenses against scrying/divination, etc.

What you're looking for, though, is the Enhanced Shadow Reality feat from Dragon #325. It makes all your Illusion (Shadow) spells 20% more real if disbelieved. It requires you to be a 1st-level Illusionist Wizard AND Spell Focus (Illusion), though, so it depends on your build as to whether or not it fits. I think that Shadowcraft Mage (RoS) also eventually makes your (Shadow) spells MORE than 100% real, so you could check that out, too.

afroakuma
2009-02-06, 05:59 PM
What you're looking for, though, is the Enhanced Shadow Reality feat from Dragon #325. It makes all your Illusion (Shadow) spells 20% more real if disbelieved. It requires you to be a 1st-level Illusionist Wizard AND Spell Focus (Illusion), though, so it depends on your build as to whether or not it fits.

That's what I was looking for, yes.


I think that Shadowcraft Mage (RoS) also eventually makes your (Shadow) spells MORE than 100% real, so you could check that out, too.

The word "muahahaha" comes to mind. :belkar:

wadledo
2009-02-06, 06:02 PM
Look up Killer Gnome on Google.
It will be your guide.

afroakuma
2009-02-06, 06:13 PM
Not even needed, since I don't actually need the character, merely the means. :belkar:

I love being Lawful Evil.

Of course, now I'm curious, so I'll have to go look. Well played, wadledo...

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-06, 09:36 PM
Tome of Magic has a collar of something that replicates the Plane of Shadow in a nice little bubble around you:

Plane Of Shadow
Enhanced magic. Spells with the shadow descriptor are enhanced on the Plane of Shadow. Such spells are cast as though they were prepared with the Maximize Spell feat, though they donít require the higher spell slots.

Furthermore, specific spells become more powerful on the Plane of Shadow. Shadow conjuration and shadow evocation spells are 30% as powerful as the conjurations and evocations they mimic (as opposed to 20%). Greater shadow conjuration and greater shadow evocation are 70% as powerful (not 60%), and a shades spell conjures at 90% of the power of the original (not 80%).

Ravens_cry
2009-02-06, 10:34 PM
Aszrath, Metrion. . .ZINTHOS!
Next time I play a wizard or sorcerer or some such, I think I will see about this shadowcraft stuff. Love the flavor, love the flexibility.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-06, 10:47 PM
I found something interesting as well: Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil lets you prepare a spell slots for Spell Mastery spells (so that you can spontaneously cast spells that you have gained through Spell Mastery), couple that with Illusion Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionMastery) (you can see where I'm going with this can't you :p). You will have to spend some extra money on scrolls for other schools, but you'll have some very interesting capabilities and utility. Not sure if it's worth it though.

RTGoodman
2009-02-06, 10:52 PM
I found something interesting as well: Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil lets you prepare a spell slots for Spell Mastery spells (so that you can spontaneously cast spells that you have gained through Spell Mastery), couple that with Illusion Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionMastery) (you can see where I'm going with this can't you :p). You will have to spend some extra money on scrolls for other schools, but you'll have some very interesting capabilities and utility.

You know, unless I'm reading it wrong, that variant doesn't say anything about NOT learning your two normal spells per level, only that you lose out on the extra spell per day. I think you'd learn FOUR per level (two Illusions, and the normal two, one of which also has to be an Illusion because you're a specialist), but otherwise you're no further behind on non-specialized spells than any other specialist Wizard. You'll still have fewer SLOTS for non-Illusions, but like you said, scrolls (and wands) are the way to go.

All in all, though, that sounds like an AWESOME character to play.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-02-06, 11:05 PM
Aszrath, Metrion. . .ZINTHOS!
Next time I play a wizard or sorcerer or some such, I think I will see about this shadowcraft stuff. Love the flavor, love the flexibility.

The best use is to go Wizard (Illusionist) 3/ Master Specialist 4/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Shadowcrafter (UD) 8. Use the Focused Specialist variant (CM) banning Evocation, Enchantment, and Necromancy, and use all of the UA Illusionist variants. Get Heighten Spell, Earth Spell (RoS), Metamagic School Focus: Illusion (CM), Enhanced Shadow Reality, Signature Spell: Silent Image (PGtF) via UA's Illusion Mastery variant, and if possible Ability Focus: Silent Image and Easy Metamagic: Heighten (Dragon 325). Signature Spell: Silent Image (PH2) is also useful for the caster level boost, but its metamagic cost reducing effect won't apply due to Heighten Spell. Rapid Metamagic (CM) could also be useful since you'll be spontaneously converting prepared spell slots into Heightened Silent Images.

Due to Shadowcraft Mage those Silent Images can be converted into any Evocation, Conjuration (Creation), or Conjuration (Summoning) spell from the general Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. You can keep utility/situational spells prepared, then trade them out on the fly for offensive spells due to Signature Spell. Some people will say you can take Arcane Disciple for a domain that includes Miracle and use this to create Shadow Miracles, but the wording of Shadow Illusion only considers the unaltered Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, not the character's own spell list, so that trick does not work.

This makes one of the most versatile and powerful offensive spellcasters possible. All of the above taken into consideration, at character level 12 you can convert a 6th level prepared spell into a Silent Image Heightened to 6 (slot) +1 (easy metamagic) +1 (Metamagic School Focus) +1 (Earth Spell) = 9th level, which can mimic any Evocation or Conjuration (Creation or Summoning) spell of 8th level or lower. The caster level will be 12 (classes) +2 (Signature Spell) +7 (Heightened from 1st to 8th before Earth Spell) = caster level 21. Assuming you start out Int 18, +3 for 12th level, +1 for either middle age or Tome/Wish, +6 Enhancement for Int 28, the DC will be 10 +9 (Int) +9 (spell level) +2 (Greater Spell Focus: Illusion) +2 (Ability Focus: Silent Image) +2 (Minor School Esoterica) = DC 34. The reality of this Shadow Illusion will be 90 (10 per spell level) +20 (Powerful Shadow Magic) +20 (Enhanced Shadow Reality) = 130% real. At level 20 you'll have another +20% from Shadowcrafter, applied in increments of 10% separately to mimicking Evocations and Conjurations. At level 12, spontaneously cast from a 6th level spell slot, you duplicate an 8th level Evocation or Conjuration (Creation or Summoning) Sorcerer/Wizard spell at caster level 21 with a DC 34 which has 130% of its normal effect even if they disbelieve it.

Keld Denar
2009-02-06, 11:20 PM
ScM looks great and all, but actually playing one is a nightmare. My friend had a whole table he put together of exactly what spell slots could make what spells and what the DCs and CLs were. Its pretty complicated, especially if you are sitting down and making one above 10th level or so...

Starbuck_II
2009-02-06, 11:48 PM
Tome of Magic has a collar of something that replicates the Plane of Shadow in a nice little bubble around you:

No, no it doesn't.

At least the Shadowcaster doesn't.
The only magic items are:
1) Shroud of Night
2) Ring of Nullification.
3) Gem of Night
4) Orb of Shadow
5) Collar of Umbral Metamorphius: Give you Dark Template (doesn't make bubble of shadow)
6) Dark Lantern

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-02-07, 12:40 AM
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis gives you the Dark Creature template for up to 10 minutes/day. The spell Planar Bubble from the Planar Handbook creates a 10-foot emanation of your native plane. The Dark Creature template causes you to be native to the plane of shadow, thus Planar Bubble will cause a 10-foot radius around you to take on the properties of the plane of shadow.

monty
2009-02-07, 12:44 AM
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis gives you the Dark Creature template for up to 10 minutes/day. The spell Planar Bubble from the Planar Handbook creates a 10-foot emanation of your native plane. The Dark Creature template causes you to be native to the plane of shadow, thus Planar Bubble will cause a 10-foot radius around you to take on the properties of the plane of shadow.

And, if I remember right, that automatically maximizes all of your shadow spells, among other things. Very nice.

Starbuck_II
2009-02-07, 08:57 AM
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis gives you the Dark Creature template for up to 10 minutes/day. The spell Planar Bubble from the Planar Handbook creates a 10-foot emanation of your native plane. The Dark Creature template causes you to be native to the plane of shadow, thus Planar Bubble will cause a 10-foot radius around you to take on the properties of the plane of shadow.

Though Planar Bubble is a 7th level spell. Kinda expensive in scroll form (or need to be high level if spellcaster).

afroakuma
2009-02-07, 10:52 AM
Another question, then;

For spells that offer effects based on level, such as shadow conjuration and shadow evocation (which both mimic spells up to one level lower than themselves) does applying Heighten Spell increase the maximum level they can mimic, as well? If not, is there a way to accomplish this without using their greater brethren?

Starbuck_II
2009-02-07, 11:06 AM
Another question, then;

For spells that offer effects based on level, such as shadow conjuration and shadow evocation (which both mimic spells up to one level lower than themselves) does applying Heighten Spell increase the maximum level they can mimic, as well? If not, is there a way to accomplish this without using their greater brethren?

Not to my knowledge.

Jack_Simth
2009-02-07, 11:59 AM
Another question, then;

For spells that offer effects based on level, such as shadow conjuration and shadow evocation (which both mimic spells up to one level lower than themselves) does applying Heighten Spell increase the maximum level they can mimic, as well?
No, because the spells aren't worded as "one level lower", they're worded as "X level or lower".

If not, is there a way to accomplish this without using their greater brethren?
Yes - but you need one of a particular set of PrC's to give the specific ability to do so - look up the Killer Gnome build, that's what it does.

monty
2009-02-07, 02:07 PM
Another question, then;

For spells that offer effects based on level, such as shadow conjuration and shadow evocation (which both mimic spells up to one level lower than themselves) does applying Heighten Spell increase the maximum level they can mimic, as well? If not, is there a way to accomplish this without using their greater brethren?

As others have said, no, they don't work that way. However, the Shadowcraft Mage ability does (since it's based on the spell's level rather than a specific number). This makes it very easy to break with Arcane Thesis and similar things, since you only need to focus on one spell (usually Silent Image) and Heighten.

afroakuma
2009-02-07, 02:30 PM
Very well; I think this is the last question:

is it possible to acquire the ability to mimic divine conjurations/evocations with shadow evocation, via prestige class, feat or magic item?

Jack_Simth
2009-02-07, 02:41 PM
Very well; I think this is the last question:

is it possible to acquire the ability to mimic divine conjurations/evocations with shadow evocation, via prestige class, feat or magic item?
Depends on who you ask.

If you pick up, say, an Arcane Disciple feat, then you've added the domain spells to your class list. The question is, though, is "your class list" referenced by the Arcane Disciple feat the same as "the sor/wiz list" if you happen to be playing a Wizard or Sorcerer.

I generally think "no" because Wizard Illusionists have a habit of using Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration to deal with the lack of certain particularly useful Evocations or Conjurations. Some will say "yes" and not realize that the exact same logic that gives a "yes" means that you can't use the Shadow line to duplicate spells of a forbidden school.

Now, if you do something like, say, a Warmage/Rainbow Servant, and use Text Trumps Table to maintain full casting, then you don't need the Shadow line to begin with.... but you've got full spontaneous casting of the entire Cleric list once you get the Rainbow Servant capstone ability.

afroakuma
2009-02-07, 02:49 PM
Depends on who you ask.

If you pick up, say, an Arcane Disciple feat, then you've added the domain spells to your class list. The question is, though, is "your class list" referenced by the Arcane Disciple feat the same as "the sor/wiz list" if you happen to be playing a Wizard or Sorcerer.

I generally think "no" because Wizard Illusionists have a habit of using Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration to deal with the lack of certain particularly useful Evocations or Conjurations. Some will say "yes" and not realize that the exact same logic that gives a "yes" means that you can't use the Shadow line to duplicate spells of a forbidden school.

I'm... more than fine with that. Keeping Evocation banned while allowing create food and water is exactly what I want.

What is your opinion on just letting the arcanist in question cast create food and water?

monty
2009-02-07, 02:53 PM
I'm... more than fine with that. Keeping Evocation banned while allowing create food and water is exactly what I want.

What is your opinion on just letting the arcanist in question cast create food and water?

It wouldn't be a gamebreaking houserule, for the most part. Unless you're using it for cheese like spontaneous miracles or 0 XP true creation (hey, free gold!), it's really not that powerful. Arcane magic is more powerful than divine in general anyway.

Myrmex
2009-02-07, 02:57 PM
I found something interesting as well: Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil lets you prepare a spell slots for Spell Mastery spells (so that you can spontaneously cast spells that you have gained through Spell Mastery), couple that with Illusion Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionMastery) (you can see where I'm going with this can't you :p). You will have to spend some extra money on scrolls for other schools, but you'll have some very interesting capabilities and utility. Not sure if it's worth it though.

Combined with the Killer Gnome's Dirty Trick (heighten spell & earth power), you don't even have to be a gnome.

Cool!

monty
2009-02-07, 03:01 PM
Combined with the Killer Gnome's Dirty Trick (heighten spell & earth power), you don't even have to be a gnome.

Cool!

How do you do that without being a gnome, exactly?

Eldariel
2009-02-07, 04:55 PM
Stoneblessed.

Jack_Simth
2009-02-07, 05:07 PM
Stoneblessed.
Mind you, as that's a three-level noncasting PrC, you're really only going to try that in a primary caster build if you're running Gestalt...

kabof
2009-02-26, 12:08 AM
The Stoneblessed kiler-gnome build uses Sublime Chord if I remembber well. So, it has no delayed caster progression of it's main spellcasting class.