View Full Version : [3.5] Help me get a level 1 Beguiler off the ground

2009-02-10, 06:21 PM
I'm starting a new campaign with a level 1 Beguiler. He's an Arcane Gnome (+2 CON and INT, -2 STR and WIS) who is Old (-3 STR DEX CON, +2 INT WIS CHA). Combined with a set of good rolls including 2 18s, I have this: 10/12/12/22/10/20 base ability scores.

We're allowed 2 flaws and 1 trait. I went with Vulnerable (-1 AC), Noncombatant (-2 melee rolls), and Quick (+10ft speed, -1HP/level). For my three feats at level 1, I went with Jack of All Trades, Spell Focus(Illusion), and Heighten Spell.

He's filling the role of party rogue, secondary (at least) arcane caster, and possibly even a party face, depending on how evil we get. I'm going to be doing the traditional Beg5/Mindbender1/Beg2/Shadowcraft Mage5 build. The trouble is that with those stats, I can't get Earth Sense, which requires CON and WIS 13.

Now, we've not started play yet, so I'm a free man with regard to messing around with the build. How can I get a better ScM build? Is there some other option staring me in the face that I'm missing?

EDIT: All books are good for use, and Dragon material is case-by-case.

EDIT2: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=655556 is the ScM handbook. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=986810 is a Beguiler guide.

2009-02-10, 08:48 PM
With stats like that, it's hard to go too far wrong with a Beguiler. Are you mainly looking for a fun build, a flavorsome build, a raw power/effectiveness build, or a munchkin/broken build?

2009-02-10, 09:05 PM
Are you locked into Heighten Spell? I ask because it's a worthless spell until level 4 and even then what good does it do to increase a level 1 spell to level 2? Spell Focus (enchantment or illusion) would be far better at level 1. Though, I would aim for another feat: Spellcasting Prodigy (For the purpose of determining bonus spells and the saving throw DCs of spells you cast, treat your primary spellcasting ability score [Charisma for bards and sorcerers, Wisdom for divine spellcasters, Intelligence for wizards] as 2 points higher than its actual value.)

2009-02-10, 09:27 PM
On level 1, I'd cram the second 18 to Con or Dex rather than Cha; a 15-16 in Cha should be plenty and you really don't want to die to a breeze so having HP, initiative and AC can be quite useful. This goes double as you're starting on level 1. And a little rearrangement could easily get you 13 Wis.

Maybe if you posted your starting stats, we could rearrange them a bit to get the most out of 'em? My initial reaction is to go with 7 in Str, 12 or 15 in Dex, 12 or 17 in Con, 22 in Int, 13 in Wis, remaining in Cha.

I think Jack of All Trades is a tad weak for a Beguiler; most of the skills it'd apply for are class skills for you anyways so you can easily enough buy a rank. I'd probably pick up Extend Spell (always handy) or Sculpt Spell (really good on level 4) as the first metamagic feat. Really, the whole Shadowcraft Mage-trickery leans heavily on the Earth Spell so it's not really worth going for unless you can acquire Earth Sense (hence the stat readjustment).

2009-02-11, 12:52 AM
My base stats were 18, 10, 18, 15, 13, 15, not in that order. I'll ditch JoaT and Heighten (for now), in favor of something else, ideally perpetually useful stuff.

Oh, as a reminder, -str -wis +int +con. -3 physical +2 mental for Old.

I'd like to be as effective as possibly Shadowcrafting, because I may at some point be the only versatile caster in the party.

2009-02-11, 01:25 AM
If you don't mind dumping Strength (because, face it, you should never be making melee attacks with this guy), you can get:

22 INT
17 CON
13 WIS
12 DEX
17 CHA

You certainly shouldn't worry about getting Strength higher than 8. If you really want it to be higher than 5, then, you'll end up something like:

22 INT
12 CHA
17 CON
12 DEX
15 WIS

In either of those, you can go 15 DEX, 14 CON instead of the 12/17 that I've written. But generally high CON is a good thing.

In that latter build, the 12 CHA is unfortunate for a party face. But as a Beguiler, you should be able to pull it off if you have to. What can I say, Shadowcraft Mages are somewhat MAD, and that 10 needs to go somewhere.

2009-02-11, 01:48 AM
BASE / ArcGnome / Old
Str 15 / 13 / 10
Dex 18 / 18 / 15
Con 15 / 17 / 14
Int 18 / 20 / 22
Wis 10 / 8 / 10
Cha 13 / 13 / 15

So, 10/15/14/22/10/15. Not bad at all, unless you think there's something very much better. I like dumping Wis and keeping Str decent-- the DM is insisting we keep track of encumbrance, and I'm already Small. I don't want to have to draw my bow from my mule.

I might pick up the Dragon Mag feat Keen Intellect, which lets me use my Int for Will saves and skills.

Kurald Galain
2009-02-11, 04:38 AM
Good beguiler feats include Dazzling Illusion or Unsettling Enchantment; Improved Init; and Arcane Disciple.

Jack and Heighten aren't very useful (the latter only applies to the cheese gnome build, but even there you won't need it for the first bunch of levels)

2009-02-11, 05:35 AM
Dazzling Illusion seems a bit meh: -1 to attack rolls and spot checks?

Improved Init is my go-to when I can't think of a good feat.

Arcane Disciple needs Wis, so it's right out.