A different monk (3.5)

[Atsu333]

I'm trying to make the elusive "grappling monk" that no one seems to care about. so far I've only been able to find maybe 3 feats and a class that I'm not sure about. Basically my only limitation is no variants(unearthed arcana mostly)

the feats I've got lined up
1:Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Grapple
2:Combat Reflexes
3:either one of those I'm not sure about or Improved Trip or Disarm


And I'm not sure about Martial throw(use a grapple to swap places with enemy) or Scorpion's Grasp(If you hit a creature you have the
option of starting a Grapple as a Free Action without provoking an Attack of Opportunity)

The only class I could find to help is Reaping Mauler, which doesn't give you very good abilities till later in the class, and it doesn't stack with monk.

I think monk is the only good option because when you're grappling you can only attack with light weapons or unarmed strikes.

Any ideas?

[ChaosDefender24]

Reaping mauler is usually wakki-nunu (I'm probably gonna get ninja'd on this), because in order to qualify for the class you can't be Large or larger (Clever Wrestling prereq) and size increases are generally considered the best way to up your grapple check.

However, if you're otherwise playing a straight monk, this could work out otherwise, because I don't see how you'd be getting size increases. Custom magic items/Sir Giacomo, I suppose...

If you want to stick with monk, you could go Cleric/Divine Fist to get Divine Power etc.

I guess since this thread is now about grappling in general apparently, I might as well go into that.

What everyone else said. Wizards and dr00dz both get to morph into something fierce. Psywar is FANTASTIC because of powers like Expansion, Strength of my Enemy, and a slew of natural attack powers in order to screw around with them once you're in the grapple.

My all-time favorite would have to be the Primeval, though. Start with a Maug Incarnate and turn into a Dire Snake for a truly massive grapple bonus.

[Starbuck_II]

I think monk is the only good option because when you're grappling you can only attack with light weapons or unarmed strikes.

Any ideas?

Wizard:
You have multiple spells that deal damage while being/doing grappling, give Grapple bonsus to you, etc.

[BRC]

High Str Monk with Improved Grapple is step 1

Step 2 is for the party cleric to have the Strength domain, so they can hit you with Enlarge Person (Any cleric will do, but a Strength domain cleric can do it easier)
Step 3 is to be thrown out of the group for forcing them to use the grapple rules on a regular basis.
Step 4 is to sit outside the house where the group is meeting in the cold, saying "Come on guys, not cool."
Step 5 is to offer to make a different character
Step 6 is to offer to make a different character AND buy pizza for the next few sessions.

[Ascension]

Wizard:
You have multiple spells that deal damage while being/doing grappling, give Grapple bonsus to you, etc.

And you can polymorph/shapechange into something huge and grappleicious. Druid would be good for wildshape grappling.

[Kantolin]

If you consider Reaping Mauler, ask the DM if it's okay for you to increase your size if your base form is medium. Technically, when you are enlarge person'd, you stop qualifying for the class - but very few people actually follow that. Reaping Mauler is usually looked down upon as grappling can be a somewhat confusing and klutzy option, but it's one of the few ways of actually bolstering it.

The major three focii for a grappler are size, base attack bonus, and strength checks. For size, by raw your main hope is to stock up on potions - I'd ask the DM for a custom magic item of command-word enlarge person myself. You could ask the party wizard to spend each battle buffing you first, but most players don't play characters to spend their lives buffing other people (for example, you're not spending your time making them awesome either) so be sure you speak to them first.

Base attack bonus is one of the flaws of being a monk: There's not really much you can do to fix the 3/4 BAB. Be sure when you create your character, that you have a high strength. A bard in the party could help you connect against things more often.

Bonuses to strength checks are generally somewhat tough to come by. This is further incentive to have a high strength. If you have access to the magic item compendium, they have the Brute's Gauntlets (500gp) and the Torc of the Titans (3300gp) - they're actually surprisingly cheap, and every bit helps. A marshal in the party could help you here, if he happens to have motivate strength.

If you're okay with multiclassing, shift into something that lets you increase your own size and/or strength (Wizard, Cleric with Strength domain, Psychic Warrior) or possibly even marshal, if you for some reason have a good charisma. I believe the Wizard/Monk, Psion/Monk, or Cleric/Monk 'theurges' may help as well.

Hopefully that helps.

~ Kantolin

[Hawk7915]

Monk is an okay call since they are the only class that actually deals damage with an unarmed attack. I'd consider taking Stunning Fist and grabbing Improved Grapple with a feat, however, since Stunning Fist is a prereq for Fists of Iron amongst other things. Another okay feat is Earth's Embrace, which lets you do bonus damage while pinning someone. (Both feats are in Complete Warrior, btw)

I'd consider Barbarian as well though; grapple is keyed off Strength and BAB, which the barbarian should have more of than the Monk. There's a variant in the same place as Spirit Lion (Pouncing) Barbarian that lets you trade the speed boost for Improved Grab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#improvedGrab) (Complete Champion, I think), so that's nice. And being Barbarian instead of Monk means wearing Spiked Breastplate to deal damage in a grapple, which is sweet.

Hope that helps!

[kalt]

Couple things you are going to want to run by your DM. Will he allow you to Flurry in a Grapple (most say yes and it has been ruled that way several times by CustServ)? I would also try to take Improved Natural Attack (again some DMs say yes but some may not). Improved Initiative is always nice. Expeditious Dodge is also a nice one. Depending on the makeup of your party you can pump up UMD to buff yourself with wands (enlarge person) and many many other useful spells. I'd think about blindfight(feat) as well and an eversmoking bottle. Monks belt is always a go and boots of springing and striding is useful for more speed and acrobatic fun.

[Atsu333]

I'd consider Barbarian as well though; grapple is keyed off Strength and BAB, which the barbarian should have more of than the Monk.

The only problem I see there is the conflicting alignment requirements. And to all the rest of you, thanks for the help! Right now I'm considering going part druid(would need to take monastic training to keep going as monk) or part wizard(with Kung Fu Genius and monastic training)

Right now I mostly need to look at spell lists to figure out which one would be best, then I might take the corresponding prestige class.

[Telonius]

Grappling is really only a viable strategy against things that are roughly your size or smaller when the grapple is started. It's best against things that are armed, preferrably with a two-handed weapon.

The very best grappling situation is to grapple the person that is engaging in melee with the Rogue. Rogue then gets a full attack sneak attack against him.

Divine Power is probably going to be your best bet for reliably increasing your grapple potential. So, how about this plan...

Human Monk
Monk1 Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Combat Casting, Extend Spell
Monk2 Combat Reflexes
Mk2/Cleric1 Persistent Spell
Mk2/Cleric4 Divine Metamagic
Mk2/Cleric4/Sacred Fist10

At Sacred Fist 6, you'll be able to cast Righteous Might on yourself, increasing your size. You can use the standard DMM tactics to Persist Righteous Might and/or Divine Favor.

[RavKal]

Fighter/Wizard or some such ilk, as there are feats that let you use different weapons in grapple without penalty. Monk's only real benefit is unarmed damage and bonus feats.

Aside from that, go rogue. No dex bonus when grappling = sneak attacks. Rogues like light weapons anyway.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

What others have said. Monk is an okay dip for a grappler, but the loss of BAB hurts a lot for the opposed checks, especially if you try to Flurry in the process. The damage boosts are nice, but a Druid or Wildshape Ranger(even better) is generally a much better grappler.

[Starbuck_II]

Fighter/Wizard or some such ilk, as there are feats that let you use different weapons in grapple without penalty. Monk's only real benefit is unarmed damage and bonus feats.

Aside from that, go rogue. No dex bonus when grappling = sneak attacks. Rogues like light weapons anyway.

Um no. No they can't.
You are only denied Dex to non-grapplers.

[Eldariel]

The two-three viable alternatives:
-Sacred Fist (prioritising Cleric/Archivist-levels) - this is awesome 'cause it also has full BAB in addition to divine casting
-Psychic Warrior, Ardent or Slayer with Tashalatora (Expansion into Gargantuan-Colossal FTW; thanks to Tashalatora, your psychic class advances your Monk-abilities)
-Unarmed Swordsage (not that amazing as a grappler though, but still amazing)

Really, the best grapplers are either casters with ridiculous size increases, or Barbarians. Monks are Not Very Good™ in it. Luckily though, you can acquire casting through classes while still being a Monk. Really, if you wanna be a pure Monk, go through PrCs that have full BAB. Fist of the Forests [Complete Champion] is a good one, Shou Disciple [Oriental Adventures] is another, etc.

[Temp.]

If you want a Monk Grappler, your best bet is going to be psionics. The Fist of Zuoken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) is the most Monk-y route. Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) and Warmind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) are probably stronger options though. Fluff doesn't even really change between them.

But the exact class doesn't matter. What matters is Wisdom-based manifesting from the Psychic Warrior powers list.

The real jewels for grapplers are Grip of Iron (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/gripofIron.htm) and Expansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm). Note that expansion can boost you 2 size categories once you hit ML 7 and that it isn't restricted to Humanoids only. This means it stacks wonderfully with Polymorph effects.

There are a couple other powers on that list that remove the real flaws in the Monk class: Hustle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hustle.htm) and Psionic Lion's Charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicLionsCharge.htm) let you combine high movement speed with Flurry of Blows. Vigor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm) can help make up for your MAD-ed d8 HD.

Also, look into the Combat Focus/Combat Stability/Combat Vigor (PHB2). Combat Stability gives a benefit to oppose grapple checks. If an enemy tries to outmuscle you to escape, you snag a +4 (or +8 with Combat Vigor) bonus to keep 'em held.

[AslanCross]

-Unarmed Swordsage (not that amazing as a grappler though, but still amazing)


This. I'd take a couple of levels in Monk just for the bonus Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple feats, then take the rest in Unarmed Swordsage. The Stone Dragon discipline has a stance for grappling that gives you a Constrict attack (2d6+[STR bonus x 1.5]), and there are a lot of strikes that you could "refluff" as actual grappling (Stone Vise).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

How about Barbarian/Bear Warrior. When you shift into Bear form, you get some pretty nice Str bonuses on top of Rage bonuses, and can end up a Dire Bear that is... I'm wanting to say Huge but may only be Large, with like a +24 Str mod. It's probably better than anything else I can think of.

Furthermore, Improved Grapple is only two feats, so you can nab that at level 1 if you want to go Human.

Then take Superior Unarmed Strike (from ToB) to get an almost monk-like unarmed damage progression you can apply with a sucessful grapple check.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

How about Barbarian/Bear Warrior. When you shift into Bear form, you get some pretty nice Str bonuses on top of Rage bonuses, and can end up a Dire Bear that is... I'm wanting to say Huge but may only be Large, with like a +24 Str mod. It's probably better than anything else I can think of.

Furthermore, Improved Grapple is only two feats, so you can nab that at level 1 if you want to go Human.

Then take Superior Unarmed Strike (from ToB) to get an almost monk-like unarmed damage progression you can apply with a sucessful grapple check.One minor change:Bear Totem Barbarian. It gets you Imp Grapple and an aditional +4 untyped modifier at low cost.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

One minor change:Bear Totem Barbarian. It gets you Imp Grapple and an aditional +4 untyped modifier at low cost.

True, although you loose Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge as well as the fast movement. Still, for a Grapple build, it's probably worth the trade-off.

[herrhauptmann]

How about Souldrinker from BoVD if you're allowed to flurry while in a grapple. Each hit drains 1 level, (2 at higher levels of the PrC). Plus you start getting bonuses each time you drain someone, stat, saves, DCs to your abilities. However, you have to be a living monstrous humanoid.

If you want to be a human for this, try Jotunbrud from players guide to faerunRaces of Faerun (I've been pointing people to the wrong book this week), a regional feat. Lets you count as large during opposed checks whenever this would be beneficial to you (sunder, grapple, disarm) including deciding whether that purple worm has enough space in its belly for you as well as the rest of the party.