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Myou
2009-02-28, 10:34 AM
I was DMing a 3.5 game today.

My player and his DMPC helper were exploring the Howling Caves form Scourge of The Howling Hoarde and after a tense battle with a hunting spider that they won thanks to luck they decided to proceed further in, and came across a huge spider nest. They didn't bother looking for spiders (the ceiling was crawling with them) and just walked right over to the eggs and had a conversation about whether it was right to smash the eggs or not.

I decided to have the spiders hiss angrily to announce their presence, it seemed appropriate, and upon seeing hundreds of huge spiders gathering above them my player, a level 2 wizard, decided that of his list of spells he was going to cast not Expeditious Retreat, but Burning Hands. xD

I said to him, "Are you sure you want to do that?" and even then he was all for it until I asked "You really want to attack 100 spiders at once?". xD


Does this kind of thing ever happen to anyone else? We had a good laugh about it when he realised how bad an idea it was.

mr.fizzypop
2009-02-28, 10:45 AM
This happens all the time, just make sure you or the other PC's have a backup plan.

Also, a hundred spiders?! On a second level adventure?! Always remember to never underestimate the bravery foolishness of PC's.

Starbuck_II
2009-02-28, 10:53 AM
I was DMing a 3.5 game today.

My player and his DMPC helper were exploring the Howling Caves form Scourge of The Howling Hoarde and after a tense battle with a hunting spider that they won thanks to luck they decided to proceed further in, and came across a huge spider nest. They didn't bother looking for spiders (the ceiling was crawling with them) and just walked right over to the eggs and had a conversation about whether it was right to smash the eggs or not.

Wait, I'm lost:
What do you mean they didn't bother to look for spiders?
Looking is reactive 100% and sometimes proactive (when want to look further), but they should have still gotten a spot check versus the spiders.
You shouldn't have to say, " I'm looking at the ceiling". It should just happen.

I mean, look at the sample DMG adventure: they get an automatic spot check to notice the spider hiding in the web.

Myou
2009-02-28, 11:21 AM
Wait, I'm lost:
What do you mean they didn't bother to look for spiders?
Looking is reactive 100% and sometimes proactive (when want to look further), but they should have still gotten a spot check versus the spiders.
You shouldn't have to say, " I'm looking at the ceiling". It should just happen.

I mean, look at the sample DMG adventure: they get an automatic spot check to notice the spider hiding in the web.

The ceiling was high and it was dark, they rolled low on their spot check (they didn't know I rolled one) and didn't bother actually looking around, even though they knew the place was meant to be full of spiders and knew they were hard to see.

Khaeta
2009-02-28, 11:28 AM
What i really have a problem with sometimes is players who are genuinely suicidal. I had a session a while ago where everyone basically decided to allow the massive tribe of ticked-off hobgoblins to catch them simply so that they could make new characters.:smallannoyed:

ericgrau
2009-02-28, 11:28 AM
What if it's a swarm? Then a burning hands sounds like a great idea. I'd at least let the players get seriously hurt and then run away. Besides, unless the spiders are a lot larger than the PCs they're probably more interested in defense than pursuing/hunting very far. If you don't let them figure it out themselves you're just encouraging PCs to fight everything unless you tell them it's a bad idea. I'd try "there's a swarm of 100 spiders" or "there's a 100 giant monstrous spiders" (:smalleek:) "and you're level 2." "Are you sure?" is supposed to mean "this is tough and you should think about it", which would be great, but often it's obvious the DM is really saying "don't even think about it, just run." Too much of a giveaway.

Asbestos
2009-02-28, 11:34 AM
Wait, I'm lost:
What do you mean they didn't bother to look for spiders?
Looking is reactive 100% and sometimes proactive (when want to look further), but they should have still gotten a spot check versus the spiders.
You shouldn't have to say, " I'm looking at the ceiling". It should just happen.

Dude, all seasoned D&D players know to always check the ceiling. I'm more shocked that they didn't check there then that there were so many spiders involved. Death is always coming from above.

Flickerdart
2009-02-28, 11:36 AM
Except that Burning Hands would have incinerated the webs (which would abound in a spider nest) and set all the spiders on fire. For a level 2 Wizard, it was a fairly good move for a CR-inappropriate encounter.

TheCountAlucard
2009-02-28, 11:46 AM
Yesterday in my D&D campaign, the first-level PCs were travelling along a road when they discovered an eerily-lifelike statue of a goblin, complete with a bite mark on its leg. The Warlock rolls high enough on his Knowledge (arcana) check to know that it's the work of a cockatrice. He and the Scout decide to hunt down and kill said cockatrice, so as to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

They did kill the cockatrice, without either of them turning to stone, although it bit the Warlock three times and the Scout once.

Starscream
2009-02-28, 11:50 AM
You can always tell who is a veteran player by how often they look up. If there was a spell that made an eye grow on the top of your head, every caster would want it.

Flickerdart
2009-02-28, 11:52 AM
You can always tell who is a veteran player by how often they look up. If there was a spell that made an eye grow on the top of your head, every caster would want it.
You mean, like this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/ubiquitousVision.htm)?

Comet
2009-02-28, 12:23 PM
For some games suicidal behaviour is not only accepted, it is almost required. One of these games would be Dark Heresy.
Facing an enemy that numbers in dozens, your group armed with nothing but crude weaponry and explosives, no way to run or hide. What do you do?

You charge, Emperor damnit. You charge and you butcher them all with sheer luck and wild psyker powers. If some of you die, no problem. They served the Inquisition and they died with honour. In short, they won Dark Heresy.

D Knight
2009-02-28, 12:43 PM
oh dear palor. I had this one player try and kill the group he was with and i did put in a system to kill players that A) where harming my storyline, B) One of the players wanted to kill someone from the party, or C) they just pissed me off for the last time. so my player wanted to kill the mage whos brother could rip him into many tiny chunks.
I said "ok just how do you plan to kill the mage", by the way the mage had 7 fold veil PrC.
He said, I quote, "I am going to sneak into the room while they are asleep and attack him."
i then started to question his line of thinking to the point where i relised he was not and then proceed to tell him that would kill him and no if and or but about it. by the time this sunk in he was polymorphed into a hamster but thats not all he was still a MONK. then shortly after that my gamed died.

Alleine
2009-02-28, 12:51 PM
There's a player in my group who is completely suicidal. All of his characters, regardless of their party role(archer, meat shield, secondary caster, etc) usually enjoy running headlong into combat.
The most notable of which was in a 4e game. We entered an obvious trap room with cage doors on the sides and a rope to pull on across the room. He charges into the middle, and a creature comes into the other side of the room, pulls the rope thus opening all the cage doors, and the player is eaten alive by zombies.
In a more recent 3.5 game he charged into a kobold den, got completely surrounded and murdered because there were so many kobolds that some of them managed to roll high enough to hit him.

Myou
2009-02-28, 12:55 PM
What if it's a swarm? Then a burning hands sounds like a great idea. I'd at least let the players get seriously hurt and then run away. Besides, unless the spiders are a lot larger than the PCs they're probably more interested in defense than pursuing/hunting very far. If you don't let them figure it out themselves you're just encouraging PCs to fight everything unless you tell them it's a bad idea. I'd try "there's a swarm of 100 spiders" or "there's a 100 giant monstrous spiders" (:smalleek:) "and you're level 2." "Are you sure?" is supposed to mean "this is tough and you should think about it", which would be great, but often it's obvious the DM is really saying "don't even think about it, just run." Too much of a giveaway.

Well, after they'd found one spider very tough I thought that saying there were spiders ten times bigger was going to be a good clue that they might want to flee. xD


Except that Burning Hands would have incinerated the webs (which would abound in a spider nest) and set all the spiders on fire. For a level 2 Wizard, it was a fairly good move for a CR-inappropriate encounter.

That would work if the spiders weren't very high-hp (the one they had already killed had 30 hp, the bigger ones would have had to have about 100) and the cavern had been stated to be very wet with watersoaked walls. Still, it would have helped certainly, I don't really know how effective fire damage is, but it wasn't his plan to do that.

Maybe I should find a way to suggest that they come back later at a slightly higher level and try that. xD

Verruckt
2009-02-28, 01:07 PM
I actually tend to play the character that actually listens to his survival instinct, with a couple notable exceptions. Like wanting to play the Blood Magus PrC... My wizard was actively trying to get killed for the better part of the first half of the campaign. Unfortunately the only person uninjured in the bar fight I instigated was me, and the DM, who knew what I wanted to do, kept diligently sending random encounters our way that the party dealt with before they even got to me. I ended up just having to do the job myself with a badly targeted fireball.

Lappy9000
2009-02-28, 01:45 PM
Dude, all seasoned D&D players know to always check the ceiling. I'm more shocked that they didn't check there then that there were so many spiders involved. Death is always coming from above.It's True.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98666.jpg
...Even in Star Wars (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0120.html).

Zeta Kai
2009-02-28, 01:58 PM
There's a player in my group who is completely suicidal. All of his characters, regardless of their party role(archer, meat shield, secondary caster, etc) usually enjoy running headlong into combat.

I had a player like this a while back. He was a wizard with a serious mad-on for creatures that could squish him dead. I made his crow familiar a talking angel-on-his-shoulder. It rarely helped.

Nightson
2009-02-28, 03:00 PM
If the burning hands hit the web and burned it up then all the spiders would fall and take falling damage. How high up did you say it was?

Myou
2009-02-28, 03:05 PM
If the burning hands hit the web and burned it up then all the spiders would fall and take falling damage. How high up did you say it was?

Wow, this is actually starting to sound feasable. xD

I didn't give a height but it would have had to be about 50ft for there to have been room for the really huge spiders without them being easily seen from below.

However, a lot of them would be hanging from rocks not using the webs to hold themselves.

Advocate
2009-02-28, 03:26 PM
If your players are suicidal, you should seek intervention on their behalf. *rimshot*

Can't believe no one caught that joke. Especially given how many people jumped on the Paladin joke in the other thread.

chiasaur11
2009-02-28, 05:08 PM
For some games suicidal behaviour is not only accepted, it is almost required. One of these games would be Dark Heresy.
Facing an enemy that numbers in dozens, your group armed with nothing but crude weaponry and explosives, no way to run or hide. What do you do?

You charge, Emperor damnit. You charge and you butcher them all with sheer luck and wild psyker powers. If some of you die, no problem. They served the Inquisition and they died with honour. In short, they won Dark Heresy.

Paranoia too, only there the suicidal decision is, well, playing paranoia.

Doomsy
2009-02-28, 10:07 PM
For some games suicidal behaviour is not only accepted, it is almost required. One of these games would be Dark Heresy.
Facing an enemy that numbers in dozens, your group armed with nothing but crude weaponry and explosives, no way to run or hide. What do you do?

You charge, Emperor damnit. You charge and you butcher them all with sheer luck and wild psyker powers. If some of you die, no problem. They served the Inquisition and they died with honour. In short, they won Dark Heresy.

I think you're confusing suicidal with the only sane reaction to an utterly inimical universe. The odds are better with you charging the enemy then crossing the Empire, no matter what that warp daemon keeps whispering in your skull.

Kroy
2009-02-28, 10:14 PM
I was DMing a 3.5 game today.

My player and his DMPC helper were exploring the Howling Caves form Scourge of The Howling Hoarde and after a tense battle with a hunting spider that they won thanks to luck they decided to proceed further in, and came across a huge spider nest. They didn't bother looking for spiders (the ceiling was crawling with them) and just walked right over to the eggs and had a conversation about whether it was right to smash the eggs or not.

I decided to have the spiders hiss angrily to announce their presence, it seemed appropriate, and upon seeing hundreds of huge spiders gathering above them my player, a level 2 wizard, decided that of his list of spells he was going to cast not Expeditious Retreat, but Burning Hands. xD

I said to him, "Are you sure you want to do that?" and even then he was all for it until I asked "You really want to attack 100 spiders at once?". xD


Does this kind of thing ever happen to anyone else? We had a good laugh about it when he realised how bad an idea it was.

If this happened to me, I would shout Leeroy Jenkins! and power attack the nearest spider.

Asbestos
2009-03-01, 12:26 AM
It's True.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98666.jpg
...Even in Star Wars (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0120.html).

In a recent session I played, the party was the death coming from above. We fell down a pit trap and landed amongst some surprised goblins.

Subtext
2009-03-01, 12:54 AM
Death from above, eh?

In my first D&D-Campaign (that was between D&D 3.0 and 3.5) we got a flying carpet very early (when we were level 3) - the catch was that the carpet was a heavy alcoholic and was required to be completely soaked with hard alcohol before he would take off. Of course we always carried huge amounts of alcohol (several small casks) with us.

When we were scouting an area to find a villain lair we got shot at and my sorcerer had the sudden inspiration to combine alcohol, bottles and cloth, ignite them and throw them on these damn archers :)

Myou
2009-03-02, 05:55 AM
In a session today my player really amased me. He still had that Burning Hands left, and so he decided that he'd use it to take out cook and the ooze that ambushed in the kitchen, which was reasonable enough.

The spell set the numerous flammable materials in the room alight, the fire quickly starting to spread, I expected the player to just leave the room before he was trapped by fire, but he wanted to loot the room so badly that instead of going for the door he went over to a vast cauldron bubbling over a fire pit and started trying to push it over.

Since I had described it as containing an entire dead bear, being boiled in water by the goblin cook, I decided to only allow him to push it over on a natural 20 (he has a Str penalty). He rolled low and I described how the fires were spreading, getting closer to the door, and the pot had not even budged. So he decided to call over the DMPC to try Aid Another.

The Aid Another failed and the DMPC's roll was pretty low, so again the pot didn't budge, and I described how the fire was spreading across the door, their only escape soon to be cut off.

My player gave up on pushing the pot over, and instead he fired an Acid Splash at the pot, apparently trying to melt it. He missed with an awful attack roll, but I decided that it hit one of the supports that held the pot up, and so an iron pot weighing about a ton fell to the floor with a collossal crash, boiling water and rotten, overcooked dead bear flooding the room.

It certainly put the fire out, but the scalding heat of the water did more damage than the fire would have done and my player ended up covered in stinking water and bear guts, with every goblin in the dungeon running to see what the heck had just happened.

He got out of it with a well-placed colour spray and great rolls by the DMPC who is his only melee support, but he still had to give 250 gold to the non-evil goblins which had surrendered, so that they could rebuild afterwards. (He gave it voluntarily though, I didn't even suggest it, he's a great roleplayer.)

Mark Hall
2009-03-02, 03:30 PM
What i really have a problem with sometimes is players who are genuinely suicidal. I had a session a while ago where everyone basically decided to allow the massive tribe of ticked-off hobgoblins to catch them simply so that they could make new characters.:smallannoyed:

One thing I do in cases like that is advance the timeline. "Three months later" can mean a lot when you have an invading army of hobgoblins.