Silver Age Mismatches!

[Yulian]

I was just over at the Appendix to the Handbook of the Marvel Universe (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/) site reading their newest profile and it struck me; a thought I'd had before: "What is it with putting powerful heroes up against just some jerk in a costume?"

The profile in question is Marvel's Scarecrow (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix5/scarecrow_laughton.htm). In Tales of Suspense #51, Iron Man goes up against this guy. For those of you unfamiliar with Marvel's straw-stuffed ne'er-do-well I will make it simple.

Iron Man, the armored Avenger, goes up against a criminal contortionist and a small flock of trained crows!

It's like an AH-64 Apache versus "Guy-with-an-Airsoft-Rifle". And when the hero initially fails against this guy dressed like a reject from The Wizard of Oz, it makes it seem like Tony was hitting the old sauce pretty early that day.

So I wonder, what is it with Silver Age heroes of frankly stunning power and putting them against foes that frankly, they should plow through like tissue paper? Over on DCs turf, I think the Silver Age Flash suffers from this the worst. Sure, Superman has a few dorks like Toyman and the Prakster, but at least he gets Luthor, Brainiac, and Bizarro to even it out a bit. Barry got a bunch of guys with special guns and the occasional deadly boomerang.

Keep in mind, Silver Age Flash was just sickeningly powerful.

I wonder what's supposed to be at work here? One can say "Well, they're just crazy stories.", which is true, but even a crazy story reflects something about the writer and their worldview.

So, ideas?

- Yulian

[Closet_Skeleton]

Its not worse than Batman vs Darkseid.

Yeah, that's it, the supervillains probably all think they're batman but better because they at least have half a superpower.

Isn't Firestorm's entire rogues gallery like this?

[bosssmiley]

Does Squirrel Girl vs Galactus count, or is that the wrong era?

[Oslecamo]

Does Squirrel Girl vs Galactus count, or is that the wrong era?

No, squirrel girl is a special case, she was never defeated, wich goes to show she hides her real godlike powers and poses as squirrelgirl in the public to make their oponents drop their guards:smalltongue:

Joking aside, yes, silver age is SILLY.

For a good collection of the idiocy of silver age heros see:
http://superdickery.com/

Just look. The first link is to super man challenging batman to a duel of pistols.

I guess the argumentists simply draw whatver comes to their mind whitout thinking twice if it makes any sense or not.

[chiasaur11]

I think the mismatch is not in Galactus's favor, is the original point.

And yes, those matches are one sided, but on the other hand, those arse whompings made pretty much every one of the Rogues awesomely badass in Suicide Squad.

[Jerthanis]

Oh yeah, villains of the age were very very lame, partly because many of them were new creations and writers miss about six times as often as they hit. Paste Pot Pete existed and even the writers were aware of how lame he was, because Spider-Man pretty much just laughed in his face in what I THINK was his first appearance.

But this guy was on the Frightful Four team to go up against the Fantastic Four, a guy with a gun that shot glue. His only trick (immobilizing someone with sticky glue) was done way better by the leader, The Wizard, who could make you fall up instead of down or hover with nothing to push off of.

So yeah, some villains were lame because the writers knew they had to introduce new characters, but couldn't just give them the same superpowers every single time. So sometimes it was like, "Uh... he's a... um... Juggler. Yeah... Juggler-Man... no! The Juggler!" just to see if they worked anyway.

[chiasaur11]

Oh yeah, villains of the age were very very lame, partly because many of them were new creations and writers miss about six times as often as they hit. Paste Pot Pete existed and even the writers were aware of how lame he was, because Spider-Man pretty much just laughed in his face in what I THINK was his first appearance.

But this guy was on the Frightful Four team to go up against the Fantastic Four, a guy with a gun that shot glue. His only trick (immobilizing someone with sticky glue) was done way better by the leader, The Wizard, who could make you fall up instead of down or hover with nothing to push off of.

So yeah, some villains were lame because the writers knew they had to introduce new characters, but couldn't just give them the same superpowers every single time. So sometimes it was like, "Uh... he's a... um... Juggler. Yeah... Juggler-Man... no! The Juggler!" just to see if they worked anyway.

Yeah, but on the other hand some of those incredibly lame villains got put to good use.

I mean, read Suicide Squad sometime. B to Z list villains (and anything higher than C list was uncommon) used to maximum effect, to the point where "Okay. I obviously do NOT want to mess with Captain Cold" is a viable sentiment.

I mean, in Deadshot's first appearance, he had a top hat, and Doc Doom wanted Blackbeard's treasure. Great villians need to start somewhere.

[Dervag]

I suspect another reason for the lame villains was the cyclic, serial format. As I understand it, a lot of Silver Age comics were intentionally designed to keep the basic plot in stasis. There weren't supposed to be major changes to the lifestyle of established characters, and resolution of longstanding plot issues was avoided.

The problem with that is that you can't do anything with far reaching consequences in that kind of setting. If a villain blows up half of Metropolis, Superman's life is going to change. People he knows will die; his failure to stop the destruction should change his attitudes somewhat.

So you need the kind of villains who your hero can keep fighting forever without mass destruction or career ending injuries on either side. But that limits your options. You need villains weak enough that their actions don't seriously alter the status quo. Hence, wimpy villains.
______

To make matters worse, there was social pressure on the writers. The Silver Age was also the Comics Code Authority Age, and the industry was nervous about a crackdown from above. Criminals had to fail and be punished; that made villains who can't be counted on to lose a battle are unacceptable. Bloody slugfests were discouraged, which meant writers needed to get clever to find villains who could pose a threat. Guys with machine guns or swords or superhuman strength can kill people. Guys with a gun that encases people in ice or glue? Those are gag weapons, dangerous enough to pose a credible threat that the hero needs to stop, but not dangerous enough to be a mortal hazard once Our Hero comes up with a way to defeat the gag.

Of course, that kind of villain gets lame pretty fast, but that's the price you pay for not having your business shut down by self-righteous idiots, right?

[WitchSlayer]

Its not worse than Batman vs Darkseid.

Yeah, that's it, the supervillains probably all think they're batman but better because they at least have half a superpower.

Isn't Firestorm's entire rogues gallery like this?

Strange thing is, Batman WON Batman vs Darkseid, not counting the Final Crisis time, Batman made Darkseid bleed. By punching him. With no superpowers.

[GoC]

Strange thing is, Batman WON Batman vs Darkseid, not counting the Final Crisis time, Batman made Darkseid bleed. By punching him. With no superpowers.

I never know quite what to make of this when it comes up in a vs thread.
Seriously, what can you do when the writers care nothing for consistency? There's probably tons of minor inconsistencies in addition to huge bloopers like this.

[Yulian]

Isn't Firestorm's entire rogues gallery like this?

You know, I completely forgot about the parade of losers that Ronnie and the Prof. had to deal with. Even the formidable ones, like both Killer Frosts, were so amazingly out-powered by Firestorm is was just ludicrous.

In Marvel terms, it's Molecule Man versus Iceman.

The point about the Rogues is valid now. The idea that, to make even a decent showing against the Flash means the whole group is like a pack of mini-Batmans.

But originally, it was just so ludicrously one-sided. I'm just not sure how the writers were thinking they'd make their heroes look heroic.

Oh, and Jerthanis?

You shut up! The Death Throws are cool, damn you! They are...

*sobs*

- Yulian