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Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-01, 04:51 PM
Bladevine Bush
Size/Type: Large Plant
Hit Dice: 6d8+6 (33 hp)
Initiative: +6 (+2 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 0 ft.
Armour Class: 15 (+2 Dex, +4 Natural, -1 Size)
Base Attack/Grapple: +4 / +14
Attack: Bladevine +7 (1d12+3)
Full Attack: 4 Bladevines +7 (1d12+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft. / 10 ft.
Special Attacks: Rend Vines
Special Qualities: Blindsight 20 ft., Vulnerability to Fire, Fast Healing 5
Saves: +6 Fort, +4 Ref, +2 Will
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +14
Feats: Weapon Focus (Bladevine), Improved Initiative and Skill Focus (Hide)
Environment: Jungles and Swamps
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Advancement: 7-10 (Large), 11-16 (Huge)
Level Adjustment: --

The tranquil arrangement of ferns and jungle vines lay innocuous and still. Its prey had remained unaware of its presence until the foliage exploded into violence, four long vines with an edge of razor sharp hooks latched on with unnatural hunger, ready to unleash death.

Once docile, innocent plantlife that dotted the various rainforests of the world, harmless to travelers. The Bladevines were the creation of a twisted druid who believed that the deforestation caused by humanoids would one day ruin the world. Experimenting with magics, he worked hard to create a variety of plant that would lay in wait to ambush those who would cross it.

He was successful, creating a powerful predatory plant that was capable of destroying almost anything that endangered its home with a mighty flash of bloody, thorn-ridged vines. Delighted with his work, he continued to transform plants as often as possible, hoping to create more of the deadly plants to protect the forests he loved dear. He was successful in this for several years, crafting innumerable Bladevines across the world. Eventually, however, his own creations were his undoing.

A hated enemy of his, a dark wizard, used his potent magic to corrupt these fair guardians, befouling their forms and twisting their sentience. Unable to deal with their insanity, they snapped and attacked their own master, slaughtering him in his sleep. These relics of his endeavours to save the forest still remain, rustling in the darkness and waiting for food to fall into their grasp.


Combat
Bladevines target a single foe and tear it to pieces as quickly as possible to incapacitate or kill it, then drags the body into its foliage and concentrates on taking down another foe. They are singleminded and merely attack the closest thing without paying any heed to its own wellbeing.

Rend (Ex): If a Bladevine hits one target with two vine attacks, its vines latch on and tear its foes' flesh apart, dealing an extra 2d12+6 points of damage. If it hits the target with all four vine attacks, it deals an extra 4d12+12 points of damage instead.

Lord Iames Osari
2006-09-01, 06:25 PM
Nice. Looks good to me... Wait. You forgot to include Improved Initiative in its Init bonus.

Fix that and then... MitP Vote: Yes

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-01, 06:43 PM
Whoopsie, you're correct. Fixed. Imp. Init was a last minute decision.

Maerok
2006-09-01, 11:29 PM
MitP Vote: Yes

Winged One
2006-09-01, 11:46 PM
MitP vote: yes.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-01, 11:49 PM
Quick edit, changed Con from 12 to 13 as I realised only two stats were actually odd instead of even. Ah well.

The Glyphstone
2006-09-02, 07:46 AM
Freeeeeeky....

MitP: yes.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-02, 04:33 PM
Glad you like it. :)

fangthane
2006-09-02, 08:32 PM
My take is as follows:
Blindsight and lack of mobility more or less cancel in terms of CR, as do FH5 and vulnerability to fire. *Especially at CR 6 where you know it'll face 5-6d6 of fireball damage from most parties, plus potential alchemist's fire. *I'd tend to give it 2 more strength and con.

Avg rogue at level 5 - 16-18 dex, 5 armor, 2 misc = 20-21 AC
Avg fighter - 12 dex, 9 armor, 2 misc = 22 AC
So this thing's only hitting its main targets, at level 6, on a natural 17 or better. *Granted it's got 4 attacks, but it's going to miss a LOT. *If it were my creature, I expect I'd bump its HD to 8 and its strength to 16, and put the bonus point in Con. *That gives it an extra 2d8+10 (19 hp) and gives it a slightly better attack bonus - otherwise, I just don't see it surviving to deal enough damage to justify its CR.

Edit - Neat idea though :)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-02, 08:35 PM
Well, it's not meant for long fights. It's an ambusher, not a fighter. It uses its ridiculously high hide skill to let them get next to it and then tear something apart. The problem is that it's either going to do a ton of damage or it's going to die quickly.

fangthane
2006-09-02, 10:20 PM
I'd tend to use the WotC acid-test on it. Roll yourself a party of wizard, cleric, rogue and fighter at 8th level and throw a pair of those at them, see how they do. As written I'd call the Bush a CR of 5 (if a bit weak for that CR) but I might be biased; a lot of the time my players tend to play rogues and rangers so spots are easier to make - at level 6 I usually see a +11-15 spot check (depending on the character) and 14 hide just isn't as impressive.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-02, 10:23 PM
Except for the fact that the Bladevine has all the time in the world to take 20 on its hide check, it's not like it's going someplace any time soon. CR 5 may be more reasonable, I originally had it at CR 5, but upon noticing that if all four attacks hit it'd be doing 32-120 points of damage in a round, I was a bit unsure. I'm wondering what others think before I jump to a change like that though.

And I'd do the test, but I simply don't have time for it. Barely have time to sit down and write these out. :P

fangthane
2006-09-02, 10:48 PM
Heheh I know the feeling :)

And you're right, 8d12+24 in a round is, potentially, a lot of damage; but as the DM it's also partly your job to instill fear without actually instakilling anyone in the surprise round if it can be avoided ;) Considering it's 76 damage average, it'll kill most anyone if it connects fully but the odds are pretty long even in surprise - the rogue is potentially boned but the fighter still has a 21 AC and while it has a 50% chance of landing at least one attack, that reduces to about 5% for two and even less for more.

On second thought, I realise that I should be asking why its Attack is listed as +6 (which jives with its stats) and Full Attack only +4? it's not a multiattack because they're all part of the primary, right?

Bumping that to +6 would help a fair bit; the odds of hitting at least once (on an AC 21 target) become about 70%, the odds of hitting twice (or more) nearly triple, to almost 15%. Ideally boosting it to +7 (75% chance of at least one hit, almost 20% chance of two) or +8 (82% chance of one hit, 25% chance of two) would probably better.

I may not have time to do the virtual combats, but the stats are easy enough :)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-02, 10:57 PM
Hm, does it not count as multiattack if they are part of the primary? I never was 100% clear on that rule. +6 would greatly improve their chances and it would give them a chance to get the good old fashioned 'Improved Trip' in there.

fangthane
2006-09-03, 12:41 AM
It doesn't as far as I'm aware - multiattack is basically for situations where (for example) a monster with claw-claw-bite gets a weapon and has a possibility to whack-bite; the claws are at full bonus as is the whack, and the bites are either -5 (as normal) or -2 (with multiattack) relative to the claws/whack (though obviously the whack also may have other modifiers too).

I should point out though that since it lacks the 13 int required for combat expertise (prereq to Trip) that could be tricky to justify :)

Perhaps a weapon focus feat to bump it to +7 would be just what the doctor ordered though? :)

Delcan
2006-09-03, 12:51 AM
Ooooh, very nice. I like it, it's a solid and staple addition to the tiny list of Plant-types. MitP vote: Yes.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-03, 04:08 PM
Combat Expertise? Laaaame. I seem to recall Improved Trip didn't have any requisites. *Rampage.*

Weapon Focus it shall be.

Fualkner Asiniti
2006-09-04, 01:25 AM
Hehehe... This looks a little like my Gruarru. But I still like the thing. Still looks like it needs polish, so I'll vote later when you finish.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-04, 08:52 AM
As far as I know the polish is all done. Please to tell what you saw that needed polishing.

Were-Sandwich
2006-09-04, 09:25 AM
Reminds me of Minority Report.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-04, 09:27 AM
Reminds me of Minority Report.


Never saw. What was in minority report to remind you of this? o.O

Were-Sandwich
2006-09-04, 09:29 AM
One of the founders of PreCrime, an old lady scientist, specialising in botany, forget her name, has a provate house in the middle of a forest. She had geneitcally modifed carnivorous vines on the peremiter walls. The sliced people with their leaves, injecting a contact poison that makes your senses go on a trip to crazy land, then choking up your wind pipe until you choke to death.

asromta
2006-09-04, 03:25 PM
MitP Vote: Yes

fangthane
2006-09-05, 01:33 PM
With the recent modifications made, I have no further compunction about saying

MitP Vote: Yes.

I'll give this a chance to get some real adventurer blood this evening; I plan to run my gestalt party into at least one of these :)

I'll let you know how they do later, and whether the stats turn out to be damned lies ;)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-05, 01:36 PM
Ooh, I'm delighted to know you think it's nice enough to give it a field test. Well, that is one way to check the CR, now isn't it? ;D

Enjoy. :)

fangthane
2006-09-05, 01:41 PM
Actually, I was just thinking about something else... As a druid, the creator would have factored in a life-cycle of some sort; perhaps every 10 HD of living non-plants it kills (and eventually digests, presumably) it's capable of flowering and reproducing in some fashion, taking a break from attacks and playing possum while it spreads the new generation? Something like that, at any rate, would make sense for a plant-based beastie originally designed by a druid, however it's since been corrupted.

Just a thought though; the monster stands on its own but I think we can probably flesh out its ecology a bit too :)

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-05, 01:43 PM
Hm, maybe. I don't know about judging by HD though, might just be better to describe it's ecology and not go into the stats of it. Maybe reproducing during the rainy season (possibly by growing seeds/fruit of some kind, for animals to eat and carry?) and then feeding and growing itself during the rest of the year?

fangthane
2006-09-05, 03:26 PM
That seems like it'd work too - I guess the concern I was thinking was that most plants use animals to spread their seed but this one might frighten the poor wee beasties ;) but if it has a life-cycle wherein it's either combatively dormant or able to fling seedlings somehow, that works nicely. Here's another possibility.... give it a grenadelike lob and it can fling its own seeds whenever it wants dealing 1d4+2. That way you can also have bladevines defend their nearby neighbors with artillery support ;)

Any way you slice it though, it needn't be a stress factor :)

Randomman413
2006-09-05, 04:45 PM
MitP Vote: Yes.

Athanatos
2006-09-05, 05:31 PM
MitP Vote: Yes.

fangthane
2006-09-06, 12:01 PM
Results of the live fire test are as follows:

Party composition: 4 gestalt characters. First attacked were the Barb/Cleric and the Fighter/Bard in the surprise round, scoring a rend on one and a single hit on the other. Second round (first reaction round)I scored a few more hits and a rend on another character, the characters did a little damage to one and the arcane caster (wizard/ranger) blew everything to hell by scoring a crit on a scorching ray and slaughtering one (with 44 HP!!!) in a single hit. The other did a bit more damage and succombed to melee damage, but I was quite pleased overall with the way things went. Two characters were taken down about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way, one was almost toasted, and net spell usage was a bunch of heals (as recovery) and a scorching ray, which definitely sits well with the resource situation. Given the Gestalts were level 5 and the plants, in a gestalt campaign, were worth about a CR 4-5 each things went about as I'd have anticipated with the exception of the fact I'd anticipated they'd need to concentrate on one at a time after the surprise round, and I suspect resource consumption would have been a LOT closer to 50% without that crit.

All in all, it seemed a pretty consistent CR relative to the other CR 6 stuff I've been sending their way :)

And considering there were times I only hit because of the +1 I'm glad I convinced you to give it Focus :)
Otherwise, I'd have missed both rends.

Saithis Bladewing
2006-09-06, 12:13 PM
Glad to hear it went well and the CR looks about accurate. :)

MandibleBones
2006-09-06, 09:30 PM
MitP: Yes.