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Theodoriph
2009-03-15, 05:26 AM
New strip is up. :smallsmile:

RMS Oceanic
2009-03-15, 05:29 AM
The golem is the Comedian. I approve. :smallbiggrin:

I guess this is it. And it could still go either way.

Zeku
2009-03-15, 05:29 AM
Quern!

We could be in for some cheesy battle poses and Jackie Chan battle-apologies.

Theodoriph
2009-03-15, 05:30 AM
I didn't get the QUERN effect.

Besides being a city in Germany, and a part of a tool for grinding grain, anyone know what it stands for (I'm assuming neither of those is the reference). :smallsmile:

sheepfly
2009-03-15, 05:31 AM
"KI"!

"HACK"!

"QUERN"!

This action is getting hot and heavy!

Aidan305
2009-03-15, 05:39 AM
Hehe. Safety Dance.

Abbott
2009-03-15, 05:40 AM
Maggie's face when she's using the Hodoken is priceless. Also, was destroying Knob a tactical blunder? I'm thinking it is, seeing as without Ansom, their chances improved immensely, whereas now, they have no chane of standing against Charlie.

RMS Oceanic
2009-03-15, 05:43 AM
The point of destroying Gobwin Knob was to kill off/wound a lot of guys. Regrettably, they didn't hit enough people to guarantee their defence.

Also, Parson kills something for the first time!

Mal
2009-03-15, 05:44 AM
Hmm... Hoboken... Hadoken.... I see some similarity here....


YAY! CLIMATIC SCENES!

Draewn
2009-03-15, 05:45 AM
Long time reader, first time p- Ah, you know the drill.

I must say - The last panel joke is WONDERFUL. Absolutely wonderful.

stroggified
2009-03-15, 06:00 AM
Wheee, Second total Post, first Page! Awesome :)

Parson actually drawing his sword... tasty :) Was this him killing the ... ehm... "Wiener Rammer"?

Jeivar
2009-03-15, 06:04 AM
I have to admit I'm kind of annoyed by the constant use of internet memes and abbreviations, since I hardly ever get any of them.

Having said that: Good update.

Gez
2009-03-15, 06:06 AM
Hoboken? Well, I can see Maggie using hadoken on panhandlers, so it makes sense. :smallwink:

Onmi
2009-03-15, 06:09 AM
was the Last of the Last Stands supposed to be a joke? cause I laughed

slurpz
2009-03-15, 06:15 AM
That was a punchline, yes.

iTookUrNick
2009-03-15, 06:16 AM
Long time reader, first... me too :smallsmile:

Is the last of last of last stands a reference?

Quern doesn't ring any bell either... Perhaps somebody could explain it...

And yeah, we are almost done w/ this chapter. Great stuff, all around. Say thankya.

Half_Moon
2009-03-15, 06:20 AM
Who's turn is it after the coalition?

Coz if the day ends, all the wounded units would regain their health.

Onmi
2009-03-15, 06:22 AM
That was a punchline, yes.

No is it a reference for something I mean.


Who's turn is it after the coalition?

Coz if the day ends, all the wounded units would regain their health.

Vinny I believe.

T-O-E
2009-03-15, 06:27 AM
The golem is the Comedian. I approve. :smallbiggrin:

I guess this is it. And it could still go either way.

Ha! Didn't notice at first!

EDIT:
What'll Stanley see when he comes back? A ruined Gobwin Knob?

HandofShadows
2009-03-15, 06:29 AM
Vinney isn't anywhere around so he can't be in command (for the moment). My guess is that the remaining warlords are acting on theri own initiative, or as the Klog said, they troops may be doing "forced or automatic" attacks since they don't have a warlord to lead them.

Justyn
2009-03-15, 06:32 AM
Hoboken? Well, I can see Maggie using hadoken on panhandlers, so it makes sense. :smallwink:

Hoboken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoboken).

Also, I am not sure if I have ever brought it up here on the forums, but I have been thinking that cities in Erfworld might have levels. Anyway, I wonder what Gobwin Knob's level was before it was collapsed.

Bawon von Howse
2009-03-15, 06:45 AM
..well, i'm not sure I get any reference there is supposed to be in the last panel...but it certainly looks good! ..something along the lines of a movie poster.

....what will happen now though...being underground with no Archon support a dance may be reasonably effective, though Parson doesn't seem to think so...

...nice to see more frequent updates though!

enjoy

PS...if Parson et al. somehow survuives this, the Coalition side will not heal at dawn, this is when Parson's side heals, at the start of their turn. The RCC will have to suffer the onslaught of angry uncroaked before they get healed at the start of their turn!

Altima
2009-03-15, 06:49 AM
Hoboken=poor man's hadoken.

Well, it seems that, no matter what, Stanley has been crippled.

Even if Parson destroys the remainder of the RCC, there's only one level 1 city left. I wonder if they'll be able to make enough to even upkeep the dwagons or the casters. I imagine what's left of the treasury (if there is a treasury left) will go to reconstruction.

So maybe the RCC factions will decide to sue for peace if their combined forces are annihilated. After all, they started with twenty-five times the forces needed to crush Stanley, and they lost (and are down to three thousand, currently).

Can't wait for the next strip. Or the next five. Ten, even.

Haven
2009-03-15, 06:56 AM
That last panel took me a second (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sarYH0z948).

raphfrk
2009-03-15, 07:00 AM
Also, Parson kills something for the first time!

Not necessarily, the rock golem may have landed the blow.

raphfrk
2009-03-15, 07:02 AM
Btw, how can she tell how many units croaked, is she conveying the report from a look-out?

Kilkrazy
2009-03-15, 07:06 AM
Vinney isn't anywhere around so he can't be in command (for the moment). My guess is that the remaining warlords are acting on theri own initiative, or as the Klog said, they troops may be doing "forced or automatic" attacks since they don't have a warlord to lead them.

Transylvito disallied from the coalition in order to ambush The Tool. I presume they would need to form a new alliance before Vinny could take command of coalition forces.

Kilkrazy
2009-03-15, 07:16 AM
BTW the contract with Charlescomm requires that Parson is captured, so targetting the warlord may be a sub-optimal strategy for the coalition.

Onmi
2009-03-15, 07:18 AM
That last panel took me a second (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sarYH0z948).

NOW it makes sense!

Natio
2009-03-15, 07:29 AM
BTW the contract with Charlescomm requires that Parson is captured, so targetting the warlord may be a sub-optimal strategy for the coalition.

Ansom was the one that signed the contract with Charlescomm and with his death it might be invalid so the remaining warlords are seeking to target Parson.

I was glad Parson was willing to fight but I have a feeling that maggie and Sizemore's gollem did the fighting.

Zolem
2009-03-15, 07:31 AM
I think that 'Last of the last' ect. thing was a parody of how manny freaking last stand moments there were during this battle.

Maxymiuk
2009-03-15, 07:38 AM
I was glad Parson was willing to fight but I have a feeling that maggie and Sizemore's gollem did the fighting.

The golem was only catching up to the attacker in panel 8. I think it was Parson who killed the weiner ram.



Not 100% sure why, but I have a feeling that the next comic will shift perspective to the Coalition commanders (or what's left of them).

enh
2009-03-15, 07:54 AM
So... what's a quern?

Subtext
2009-03-15, 08:17 AM
I agree to Maxymiuk...according to panel 7, it seems Parson killed the Weiner Rammer. One strike, one kill...not bad for a first melee experience!

I really loved that strip too...especially the Safety Dance reference :D

Edit: Oh...and Quern is a german village. I didn't exactly find anything else, only thing I can imagine right now would be that Quern is quite small...then again, this is dumb...meh.

MattR
2009-03-15, 08:17 AM
Quern stones are used for grinding stuff up =/ dont know if thats relevant.

hajo
2009-03-15, 08:26 AM
Another coalition-leader down.
How many of them are left now ?
Vinnie and Jillian went away to go after Stanley, and last strip we have seen red warlord with the 'pliers.

It looks like the GK side is way more successful at reducing enemy leaders ( Webinar + Dora (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0124.html), Blue warlord + SofaKing/Duke Nozzle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0139.html), Ansom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0144.html), Foxmud-leader (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0146.html) ) than enemy troops (started with 9751 units (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html), now about 3000).

Xeticus
2009-03-15, 08:31 AM
I love the strip. I have no clue what the in jokes are this time. I play WoW so i found safety dance funny. But Quern? No clue. I had to look up foxmud. heh. i know hoboken is a city in jersey but I have no clue why it's supposed to be funny here.

oball
2009-03-15, 08:35 AM
I play WoW so i found safety dance funny.

It's a WoW reference? I was thinking more, you know, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qW0Edq1KqI).

Lamech
2009-03-15, 08:53 AM
An attack by two units? One capable of breaking down walls and a second presumably a warlord? That seems like a highly inefficent use of units. I'm going to guess the coalition is disorginized right now.

hajo
2009-03-15, 08:56 AM
Hmm... Hoboken... Hadoken.... I see some similarity here....

Hadoken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadoken) makes sense.
I wonder what spells Maggie might have left...

msb
2009-03-15, 08:57 AM
I like seeing the numbers. Down to 3000 is impressive. The coalition started off with 9751 (counting Jillian's and Vinny's forces, and Charlie's original numbers). Parson started with 785 after Stanley left (discounting all the additional uncroaked infantry).

ref
2009-03-15, 08:57 AM
Hoboken! As in Superhero League of Hoboken! yaaay!

Ganurath
2009-03-15, 09:00 AM
Not necessarily, the rock golem may have landed the blow.The golem was charging after the dog was done. Parson is 1/1 for decapitating strikes.

Also: Am I the only one who finds it odd that Parson not having any stats isn't having an adverse effect on the behavior of the attackers? You'd think they'd at least be unnerved: It'd be like walking down the street and seeing someone without a face making out at the corner.

Tingel
2009-03-15, 09:02 AM
An attack by two units? One capable of breaking down walls
It's a level 1 city now. The walls are so porous, anyone can walk in.

cover_bob
2009-03-15, 09:11 AM
Anyone else notice that when Pars killed the Wiener-rammer, the troop seemed exceptionally shocked. I think it might be a foreshadowing of the fact that Parson has incredible attack power.

Basically that she could read the amount of damage done to her mount, but not what Parson's level was. So he could be like this intense warrior capable of killing off all the rest of the coalition on his own, but not yet know it.

Theodoriph
2009-03-15, 09:15 AM
Anyone else notice that when Pars killed the Wiener-rammer, the troop seemed exceptionally shocked. I think it might be a foreshadowing of the fact that Parson has incredible attack power.

Basically that she could read the amount of damage done to her mount, but not what Parson's level was. So he could be like this intense warrior capable of killing off all the rest of the coalition on his own, but not yet know it.


Yeah, I caught that...though when I first read the comic, from the perspective...I thought the golem was attacking Parson =D Confused the hell out me.

hajo
2009-03-15, 09:15 AM
it seems Parson killed the Weiner Rammer. One strike, one kill...not bad for a first melee experience!
BTW, except for Bogroll, we haven't heard of anyone gaining levels. And there should have been plenty...

Also, no unit-stats were shown, although Parson is wearing his warlord-glasses for severals strips now.

Subtext
2009-03-15, 09:20 AM
I still think that warlords can only see the stats of their own or allied units. I think the FoxMUD guy was shocked because of Parson's size. Stanley and Wanda were astonished too if I recall right.

And yes, we only heard of Bogroll leveling but I think one can safely assume Parson and Sizemore leveled...multiple times. Parson already gained a level after his raid of the siege and the battle until now was somewhat larger

raphfrk
2009-03-15, 09:56 AM
Parson already gained a level after his raid of the siege and the battle until now was somewhat larger

I thought that nobody gained a level from that as GK technically lost all of the encounters?

raphfrk
2009-03-15, 10:00 AM
The golem was charging after the dog was done. Parson is 1/1 for decapitating strikes.


Ahh, missed that, I thought blast damage from maggie's shot took it out, didn't see the "Hack".

Saela
2009-03-15, 10:47 AM
For people not getting Quern:

Quern stones are used for grinding things. You grind something with one by putting it on top of the quern stone, then crushing it with another stone on top of that. The warlord was attacked by the golem from behind, and Parson/Maggie from the front. Thus, quern.

(edit: long time reader, first...oh, nevermind. Nice update!)

MReav
2009-03-15, 10:48 AM
I wonder if Sizemore even can be leveled. I'm pretty sure he's already a Master-Class Dirtamancer. Also, how does leveling Warlords work? Do they gain XP for the battles they oversee or do they get XP like everyone else, by going into battle and killing things. If the latter, this is the first thing PArson has managed to leach XP off of.

I wonder, what did Ansom see when he saw Bogroll disguised as Parson. Can Foolamancy fake stats? Granted, it would be useless if they couldn't ("Those Bats have an attack value of a dwagon... something's up!"

kreszantas
2009-03-15, 10:51 AM
The KI strike by Maggie 'stunned' the warlord (not sure if it was one), the QUERN finished it off. The FoxMUD warlord clinged to the Titan mandate as if it was going to save him, so it appears to me that the Titan's are casting off the old and in with the new, Parson sure has rocked the Erfworld.

Borris
2009-03-15, 10:53 AM
A few points.

1) Querns are grinding stones, used to grind anything from grain to metellic ore, depending on the type. A charging rock gloem most definitely qualifies as a grinding stone, in my opinion.

2) What will Stanley think we he comes back and sees his precious city in ruins from two hexes away?

3) I'm assuming Parson still intends to ship the casters to the magic country through the portal if think take a bad turn. But what if he himself goes through? How many troops can come with him? I'm assuming he won't care about uncroaked who'd just decay over the next few turns, but what about the various twolls, gobwinoids, and spidews? Is the magic land supposed to be some neutral thried party? Can a warlord ask for sanctuary there? Would the coalition members pursue and fight Parson all the way there assuming they had a way to use the portal?

Finwe
2009-03-15, 11:01 AM
I don't really understand the motivation behind killing the tower. Once Ansom's dance bonus was eliminated, wouldn't it have been better to just have Wanda continue dance-leading the uncroaked in the dungeons, to make another meat-grinder?

kreszantas
2009-03-15, 11:31 AM
I don't really understand the motivation behind killing the tower. Once Ansom's dance bonus was eliminated, wouldn't it have been better to just have Wanda continue dance-leading the uncroaked in the dungeons, to make another meat-grinder?

I would guess that it gave the Archons a means to access the dungeon/tunnels directly on the next turn, take that out may mean them being flyers 'COULD' be not allowed or suffer penalities, since we do not have all the game / world rules it falls in that speculation category.

Morbius
2009-03-15, 11:33 AM
Not necessarily, the rock golem may have landed the blow.

The rock golem landed the last blow on the warlord/soldier whatever he was, but Parson choped of the head of the doggy *ruthless*

Altough the "quern" sound might mean that the both attacked at the same time as it seems to relate to grinding stones

SauroGrenom
2009-03-15, 11:57 AM
Personally I expect the pliers to appear at some point again and turn the tide... Once Wanda gets her hands on them, it's over...

Also you have to wonder how much time is left before Stanley returns... He left two turns ago, and maybe he'll arrive in time to see Charley moping up.

leo_neil316
2009-03-15, 11:57 AM
Thats what I'm thinking happened. Especially since panel 8 shows both the golem -and- parson charging in to strike.

dragoncmd
2009-03-15, 12:03 PM
I love the strip. I have no clue what the in jokes are this time. I play WoW so i found safety dance funny. But Quern? No clue. I had to look up foxmud. heh. i know hoboken is a city in jersey but I have no clue why it's supposed to be funny here.

Hadoken is an attack in dragonball Z, that looks almost exactly like the attack maggie used.

Domochevsky
2009-03-15, 12:12 PM
Hadoken is an attack in dragonball Z, that looks almost exactly like the attack maggie used.

You're thinking of the Kamehameha there.

Personally i was reminded of the Superhero League too when seeing Hoboken. :smallbiggrin:

Boneyard
2009-03-15, 12:12 PM
I agree that the Ki from Maggie hit the soldier, and that Parson sliced the Wiener-ram.

As for leveling, remember that earlier, none of the warlords leveled because they technically lost every battle by running away, even though they achieved their objectives. Stanley made a big deal of this until Parson pointed out that the warlords were decaying anyway, so there was no point in leveling them.

I would assume this means that Parson didn't level on any of those encounters either. This would be Parson't first XP.

We should bronze it and put it on the wall.

ClamLeague9000
2009-03-15, 12:13 PM
Does anyone else think the golem in the last panel looks like the "I like turtles" kid?

rman
2009-03-15, 12:13 PM
I presume all units need upkeep and that a level 1 city will not produce much income to support upkeep. Also what happened to the treasury during the collapse?

I wonder if the next turn might be resource limited. Regular troops are likely supported by cash or by crop. The mechanic for upkeep of undead might be different.

Definitely interesting.

Xorbon
2009-03-15, 12:16 PM
...than enemy troops (started with 9751 units (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html), now about 3000).

Remember Maggie said "But at least 3000 are not croaked or incapacitated." To me this would imply that there are troops that are merely incapacitated for this turn, and may be able to fully heal for the next turn.

Also, it's possible that the blue warlord and Duke Nozzle are among the incapacitated, and aren't actually croaked. A lot of people here seem to have totally written them off. We haven't actually seen anything definitive regarding their fate.

Crod
2009-03-15, 12:25 PM
Who is the golem supposed to look like?

datalaughing
2009-03-15, 12:30 PM
An attack by two units? One capable of breaking down walls and a second presumably a warlord? That seems like a highly inefficent use of units. I'm going to guess the coalition is disorginized right now.

Actually, you missed one. In panel 6 there's a second foxmud guy standing behind the warlord. We know it's not one of Parson's guys because you can see one of the Knights giving him the beatdown in panel 8 and both of their bodies on the ground in panel 10.


Who is the golem supposed to look like?

He bares a striking similarity to the Comedian from Watchmen.

teratorn
2009-03-15, 12:41 PM
There were several Foxmud guys entering Parson's keep, there's at least one behind the attacker, I see what looks like a hobgobwin engaging another one, and we can see a few dead ones. I think this was just the leading stack of a large excursion force, and that the leader was probably some minor warlord.

Tredrick
2009-03-15, 12:46 PM
Stanley will likely return on the next turn for Gobwin Knob. I wonder if they can still pay the upkeep for all of his dwagons?

The dwagons may be enough to make short work of the coalition, especially if Charlie decides not to get involved.

Also, the coalition is now without anyone who can lead them in a dance fight. Clearly it is still allowed in the tunnels. Once they are concentrated into a stable perimeter, they should be safe until morning.

fendrin
2009-03-15, 01:42 PM
Why are people assuming that the level of the city affects it's income?

Also, we don't know much about upkeep costs; Stanley was annoyed that Parson's was so high at 1k/turn; that implies that even a chief warlord's upkeep is typically less.

Until we learn more I don't think that we should speculate that GK is running out of money.

PePe QuiCoSE
2009-03-15, 01:45 PM
don't know what does the last stand of the last stands is, but in the last panel the golem seems he's holding the axe like a guitar, so it might be a reference of a rock band or something?

Maxymiuk
2009-03-15, 01:49 PM
Anyone else notice that when Pars killed the Wiener-rammer, the troop seemed exceptionally shocked. I think it might be a foreshadowing of the fact that Parson has incredible attack power.

Basically that she could read the amount of damage done to her mount, but not what Parson's level was. So he could be like this intense warrior capable of killing off all the rest of the coalition on his own, but not yet know it.

Good catch. Though I don't think that means he's necessarily the Conan of Erfworld, Parson still one-shotted what probably counts as a heavy with a warlord bonus on top.


Why are people assuming that the level of the city affects it's income?


Because that's how it usually works in TBS games? The bigger and better your city, the more income it provides (on top of access to better troops and sometimes special abilities).

fendrin
2009-03-15, 02:00 PM
That may not have been a warlord. It could have been an infantry unit. It went down awfully quick for a warlord (even Dora lasted longer).

cover_bob
2009-03-15, 02:10 PM
I have a long shot theory here:

The reason the warlord riding the rammer said 'Titans...' was because for some reason they were able to identify 2 things: 1.) he has incredible strength and 2.) Parson is classified as royal.

The battle will go on and we will find out about all this at the end and for some reason we will all be afraid that the whole kingdom will be turned neutral despite defeating the alliance (like maybe the Tool decides to disband his kingdom when he thinks it is lost from a distance) but then the side remains because Parson inherits the right to rule (Royalty thing).

Then seeing that the side remained after it was abandoned, Stanley finds a new force by attacking the other alliance towns that are now unguarded and starts a campaign to take back GK by force. In finding a new ally in Charles Comm, who still wants Parson, they join up to defeat him.

Also, Wanda uncroaks the Prince and Bogrol and they become a pair of comic relief chars.

valce
2009-03-15, 02:21 PM
I don't really understand the motivation behind killing the tower. Once Ansom's dance bonus was eliminated, wouldn't it have been better to just have Wanda continue dance-leading the uncroaked in the dungeons, to make another meat-grinder?

The original issue was that there were 'several' doods on the coalition side who could lead a dance fight [which is why they gave up on just trying to whack their doods.]

Probably Parson's plan with the croaking of Ansom and the collapsing of GK was not so much to gain a multiplier advantage as to leave his opponents disoriented and disorganized.


EDIT: The guy on the wiener rammer appeared to be giving orders to the other infantryman, so he's likely a warlord.

warune
2009-03-15, 02:50 PM
Theory:
its kinda fast for an attack after such a devastating attack isn't? i wonder if the coalition is temporarily split up in all the chaos of ansom's death and GK collapsing. if thats so parson could prolly wipe up any unled individual groups coming in at least till they get formed up again to strike.....assuming they WILL reform. each warlord may vie for the victory of winning GK now.

Sky_Schemer
2009-03-15, 03:06 PM
I wonder, what did Ansom see when he saw Bogroll disguised as Parson. Can Foolamancy fake stats? Granted, it would be useless if they couldn't ("Those Bats have an attack value of a dwagon... something's up!"

There's no evidence that warlords can see the stats of units other than their own. In fact, panel 8 of this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0127.html) implies pretty strongly that they can't.

Leewei
2009-03-15, 03:36 PM
You know, with Parson's stats being hidden, he's probably underestimating his odds by a large amount.

Titanium Dragon
2009-03-15, 03:55 PM
It's a WoW reference? I was thinking more, you know, this.


It isn't a WoW reference, because there is absolutely nothing whatsoever which is from WoW. EVERYTHING in WoW is a reference or derived from elsewhere. Everything.

There were a LOT of references in this strip, and I actually needed the thread to catch a lot of them. I got the Safety Dance, obviously, but I hadn't gotten the YEAHHHHHHH in the last panel. Its funny though.

Mentok
2009-03-15, 05:48 PM
Whether or not WoW got its reference from something earlier, does not mean one cannot obtain memes from WoW and associate them with the game (and from the context of said game). If the authors use the quote "revenge is dish best served cold", & the author (or even reader) associates it with Star Trek, then that's the PoV being made and not its original source.

Opal Tide
2009-03-15, 07:08 PM
Great strip like always. Couple thoughts:

-I am not entirely convinced that the slain FoxMUD rider was a warlord, I haven't seen anything that would prevent common infantry from communicating with each other. It is certainly possible that they have their orders form the FoxMUD warlord and the rider merely informed his compatriots where PArson was and reminded them of their orders. I would think that a warlord would roll through with a much bigger stack than a ram and a handful of infantry.

-I think the question of upkeep is a good one, but one we cannot answer. We have no bearing on city level vs income, how many live troops are left and if uncroaked even need upkeep. I don't think it will necessarily come to that since Parson seems intent on retreating.

-We know a lot of the RCC is still somewhat intact, but we don't know the specifics that make a big difference. Have stacks reassembled themselves? Were any warlords killed and left their factions leaderless (in which case the remains of GK could turn into a bloodbath as unled units are forced to fight each other)? Could Wanda, with a coherent force, wipeout the remains of the RCC because they are not organized?

-Might be a moot point now, but I have always been curious was to what GK was building. Will it still pop on a normal time schedule because the payment for it was already paid? Is it a turn by turn addition? Could it end up turning the tide for Parson if he sticks around? I mean, its been a lot of turns in the making while GK was still at big city, so its got to be something somewhat powerful. I hope we end up discovering what it is.

All in all I am quite eager to see how Parson reacts to this new state of affairs and if he is as powerful as we think he might be.

Vizen
2009-03-15, 07:16 PM
Hehe. Safety Dance.

My thoughts exactly. =)

The Minx
2009-03-15, 07:22 PM
Another coalition-leader down.
How many of them are left now ?
Vinnie and Jillian went away to go after Stanley, and last strip we have seen red warlord with the 'pliers.

It looks like the GK side is way more successful at reducing enemy leaders ( Webinar + Dora (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0124.html), Blue warlord + SofaKing/Duke Nozzle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0139.html), Ansom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0144.html), Foxmud-leader (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0146.html) ) than enemy troops (started with 9751 units (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html), now about 3000).

I don't think that was the Foxmud leader, we haven't seen that unit before. I think the red-head is the Foxmud leader and she is probably the one now leading the coalition.

fendrin
2009-03-15, 07:30 PM
I don't think that was the Foxmud leader, we haven't seen that unit before. I think the red-head is the Foxmud leader and she is probably the one now leading the coalition.

If you look carefully, you'll note that the troops of a given faction are dressed the same as their warlords. Jetstone troops wear gold like Webinar and Dora, and so on. There are troops in red like the hot-headed red-head warlord, so it is likely that they are her troops and these are not; implying of course that she is not from FoxMUD.

slayerx
2009-03-15, 07:44 PM
I don't think that was the Foxmud leader, we haven't seen that unit before. I think the red-head is the Foxmud leader and she is probably the one now leading the coalition.

From what we have seen of the coalition forces is that a strong portion of the forces consist of Troops in yellow armor, troops in red/orange armor, and troops in Grey armor... We know that the yellow troops were jetstone troops

I would presume that the grey troops were Sofaking troops; Considering the kind of armor Ansom wears, it would not be hard to imagine that Duke Nozzle wears unique armor... the black girl in the grey on the other hand could easily be a warlord under him, and she wore armor that matched the other grey armored troops...

And finally i would assume that the red/orange armored troops, and the red haired warlord who has similar armor would be Unaroyal... they were the second largest member of the coalition (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html)

Foxmud only had about 200 units in the coalition so i would doubt that their forces would make up the grey, yellow, or red troops that make up the strongest majority of the coalition infantry... instead of human infantry, Foxmud might be contributing more specialized or more unique looking units, like the unipegtaurs, the orly's or something else in that vain...

And while we have not seen this slayn unit before, we must note that not everyone of the warlords have been seen at those meetings... sometimes the warlords were off doing a mission like Weibnar and Dora... Considering the size of the force they bring, Foxmud's warlord's might not have as much influence in the coalition; like they provided warlords for the sake of fighting bonus, but not ones that can really strategize... true Vinnie has an even smaller contribution, but he seems to be a personal friend of Ansom's

TheTurnipKing
2009-03-15, 08:09 PM
Probably Parson's plan with the croaking of Ansom and the collapsing of GK was not so much to gain a multiplier advantage as to leave his opponents disoriented and disorganized.
Actually, I think it was because Parson needed to kill as many of the coalition as possible, so Wanda has fresh material to make reinforcements from.

Any disorientation and disorganisation is merely a fringe benefit.


You know, with Parson's stats being hidden, he's probably underestimating his odds by a large amount.
Maybe, but his mathamancy gauntlet probably isn't, and according to that, it seems that that the numbers still remain largely in favour of the coalition.

fractal
2009-03-15, 08:39 PM
So, I have a couple of thoughts.

One, Parson is now doing nothing that Stanley couldn't do equally well (even without dwagons). That's not very impressive (for the perfect Warlord), so hopefully he'll have to do something more clever and strategic in order to achieve his eventual victory.

Two, maybe leveling a city creates additional zones (or vice versa)? So Gobwin Knob built a Tower, fortified the Courtyard, dug the Tunnels, and constructed the massive Wall. Each of these was caused by the city leveling up, or caused the city to level up. Now Parson has destroyed them all, reducing the city to probably only two zones (Dungeon and Airspace). This drops the city to level 1, but could also imply that all non-airspace units are now in the same zone. That eliminates any defensive ability to defend against enemy units entering into the Dungeon, as all ground units within the city are automatically there.

Quaalsten
2009-03-15, 09:04 PM
Hmm... Hoboken... Hadoken.... I see some similarity here....

In 1918, General Pershing promised American troops that they would be in "Heaven, Hell, or Hoboken by Christmas." I think that "Hoboken" is therefore a pretty good battle slogan.

I have heard somewhere that a British Commander also used this slogan during the American Revolutionary War in 1776, but I cannot verify this.

DrakebloodIV
2009-03-15, 09:24 PM
Also: Am I the only one who finds it odd that Parson not having any stats isn't having an adverse effect on the behavior of the attackers? You'd think they'd at least be unnerved: It'd be like walking down the street and seeing someone without a face making out at the corner.

Well, I'm pretty sure that only casters and other warlords can see stats. Also, even if it was relevant, the autoattack of the guy makes him have to attack no matter how much he wants to flee.

Zeku
2009-03-15, 09:57 PM
Upkeep is a function of money, not city status. As long as there is money in the treasury, (which has been alluded to being substantial) units can be maintained until GK or another city is rebuilt.

It's also probable that GK is sitting on gem resources, which while 'mined out,' may still provide some passive income.

Furthermore, as long as there are plenty of friendly troops in GK, any negative "morale" effects of having a low-population city are nullified, at least as far as the Civ model is concerned.

CaptC
2009-03-15, 10:31 PM
(Rules) Wanda is not going to be resurrecting any of the dead that fell outside the dungeons. She does not have access to the bodies unless Parson counter-attacks and retakes the courtyard.

Not very likely if 1/3 of the coalition still exists.

(Plot) The authors already used Wanda and a necromantic super-army once. It's not going to be the solution twice.

The Minx
2009-03-15, 10:48 PM
If you look carefully, you'll note that the troops of a given faction are dressed the same as their warlords. Jetstone troops wear gold like Webinar and Dora, and so on. There are troops in red like the hot-headed red-head warlord, so it is likely that they are her troops and these are not; implying of course that she is not from FoxMUD.

Point, I got the color schemes mixed up. :/


And while we have not seen this slayn unit before, we must note that not everyone of the warlords have been seen at those meetings... sometimes the warlords were off doing a mission like Weibnar and Dora... Considering the size of the force they bring, Foxmud's warlord's might not have as much influence in the coalition; like they provided warlords for the sake of fighting bonus, but not ones that can really strategize... true Vinnie has an even smaller contribution, but he seems to be a personal friend of Ansom's

True, though the weiner ram rider is far more likely to be a regular unit than a warlord since we have nothing to suggest (as yet) that it's the latter.

Daelach
2009-03-15, 10:48 PM
I have a long shot theory here:

The reason the warlord riding the rammer said 'Titans...' was because for some reason they were able to identify 2 things: 1.) he has incredible strength and 2.) Parson is classified as royal.

I'd go much further than that. I think Parson is a titan. At the very start of the strip it says that the titans created Erfworld and Erfworld is very similar to, if not the, game that Parson was preparing for his friends to play.

Now I do not necessarily think this means Parson is invincible -- there are plenty of RPG story lines that involve killing gods. But the FoxMUD warlord may have very well called Parson what he actually is.

VariaVespasa
2009-03-15, 10:52 PM
Depends a bit on how much the RCC loses trying to attack Parson in the dungeons. Wanda CAN animate those losses, and it *could* be enough to enable a counterattack.

Lamech
2009-03-15, 11:03 PM
There's no evidence that warlords can see the stats of units other than their own. In fact, panel 8 of this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0127.html) implies pretty strongly that they can't.
The first panel implies that they can see stats; they noted the lost leadership. I thought that Vinny was able to tell that the bats were out of place because they were unled, and wandering away from the combat.

slayerx
2009-03-15, 11:11 PM
(Rules) Wanda is not going to be resurrecting any of the dead that fell outside the dungeons. She does not have access to the bodies unless Parson counter-attacks and retakes the courtyard.


Actually i'd assume 2 different things...
either A) Wanda can only uncroak enemy units on her turn meaning the coalition needs to end its turn so that GK can have their turn and thus uncroak them
or B) massive uncroaking like that takes a lot of juice or can only be used once per day... Wanda already used it once when she uncroaked all those jetstone troops on their turn early in the day and thus she would need to wait till next turn to get her juice back and thus be able to use another mass uncroaking

Angband
2009-03-15, 11:42 PM
Since nobody else has mentioned it, I'd just like to point out that the FoxMUD wiener rammer rider looks like David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust (http://www.amazon.com/Aladdin-Sane-One/dp/B00001OH7Q/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237177717&sr=8-1) character. Between that and giving orders ("Target the Warlord!") I'm pretty sure that was a warlord.

Glome
2009-03-15, 11:43 PM
I'd go much further than that. I think Parson is a titan. At the very start of the strip it says that the titans created Erfworld and Erfworld is very similar to, if not the, game that Parson was preparing for his friends to play.

Now I do not necessarily think this means Parson is invincible -- there are plenty of RPG story lines that involve killing gods. But the FoxMUD warlord may have very well called Parson what he actually is.

While it isn't inconceivable that Parson is the same race as the titans, it is silly to think some low level no name warlord would know this when nobody else notices this.

Also, to the previous poster, Royalty can't be seen on stats even if someone could see Parson's stats, otherwise the fact that Jillian was a royal would be self-evident. And Parson doesn't have enormous strength, otherwise he wouldn't get so winded walking up stairs.

What Parson does have is a sword that is a minor artifact on the level of his bracer, and which probably does enormous damage. Parson himself is giant size and has invisible stats. The combination of these things would be enough to have the doomed weiner rider call out to the Titans.

Yodimus
2009-03-16, 12:14 AM
That final panel is awesome.
POSE! Haha!

StClair
2009-03-16, 12:58 AM
*shades*

YEAAAAAAAAAAH

Starwaster
2009-03-16, 01:06 AM
What if someone doesn't believe in Hoboken?


In 1918, General Pershing promised American troops that they would be in "Heaven, Hell, or Hoboken by Christmas." I think that "Hoboken" is therefore a pretty good battle slogan.

I have heard somewhere that a British Commander also used this slogan during the American Revolutionary War in 1776, but I cannot verify this.

Starwaster
2009-03-16, 01:09 AM
BTW.... the second word after 'Titan's' is probably 'testes'.

Fishman
2009-03-16, 01:30 AM
What Parson does have is a sword that is a minor artifact on the level of his bracer, and which probably does enormous damage. Parson himself is giant size and has invisible stats. The combination of these things would be enough to have the doomed weiner rider call out to the Titans.All these people coming up with the "Parson is a Titan" theory are clearly overthinking this. It seems more to me that the doomed rider is simply praying to his gods before his certain demise, as people tend to do when they realize they're about to die.

The Minx
2009-03-16, 01:37 AM
Link (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html)

On review, there are not many factions that haven't been identified yet.

Jetstone: Gold. Dora and Weibnar.
Unaroyal: ???
Sofa King: Dark yellow and dark purple. Duke Nozzle.
Foxmud: Light purple and pink. Unknown warlord(s).
Hobbittm: ???
Transylvito: Black and gangster-like. Vinnie Doombats.
Charlescomm: Archons.

Blue. Unnamed female warlord w/dark hair.
Red and orange. Unnamed female warlord w/red hair.

So only two options.

ishnar
2009-03-16, 01:49 AM
Also, to the previous poster, Royalty can't be seen on stats even if someone could see Parson's stats, otherwise the fact that Jillian was a royal would be self-evident. And Parson doesn't have enormous strength, otherwise he wouldn't get so winded walking up stairs.


That's endurance not strength. Parson has led a very sedentary lifestyle, so just walking to the car probably gets him winded. Endurance affects how quickly you tire, strength determines the maximum work load your muscles can handle.


All these people coming up with the "Parson is a Titan" theory are clearly overthinking this. It seems more to me that the doomed rider is simply praying to his gods before his certain demise, as people tend to do when they realize they're about to die.

this.

d3115
2009-03-16, 01:55 AM
I'd go much further than that. I think Parson is a titan. At the very start of the strip it says that the titans created Erfworld and Erfworld is very similar to, if not the, game that Parson was preparing for his friends to play.

Now I do not necessarily think this means Parson is invincible -- there are plenty of RPG story lines that involve killing gods. But the FoxMUD warlord may have very well called Parson what he actually is.

Personally, I think he was saying it in a "Oh christ I'm going to die" way than that.

Mikalyaran
2009-03-16, 02:27 AM
I'd go much further than that. I think Parson is a titan. At the very start of the strip it says that the titans created Erfworld and Erfworld is very similar to, if not the, game that Parson was preparing for his friends to play.

If that were so why would Parson have needed to learn the rules of the game? He would have been one of the ones who created them.

Lombard
2009-03-16, 02:51 AM
My take on the "Titans" line was that this was something that Erfworlders would say instead of "Dear God.." or a similarly worded plea to a deity figure.

Altima
2009-03-16, 03:32 AM
To everyone hoping Wanda will create an uncroaked army, remember that bodies disappear at the end of the day. As soon as the RCC ends turn, the bodies go poof.

Also, incapacitated troops die without getting healing magic (explained when Wanda was incapacitated by her fall). The RCC better hope those two types of elves survived, but it's still likely that a large number of them will die.

Lastly, it's likely that it was a warlord in this strip as she was 'targetting' which can only be done by warlords.

As for the speed of the attack, maybe there's a time limit for one's turn, and it's coming down, so the remaining RCC is trying to make the most of the time they have. I say there might be a time limit because there would be no reason for the RCC not to camp on Parson all the while using their healing spells to bring their incapacitated troops back up for the next day's battle.

Almeric
2009-03-16, 03:50 AM
It seems there might be some confusion about warlords:


... Any unit with leadership ability is called a "Commander" or "Warlord"... (Parson's Klog #4)

So the pink&purple guy might be a warlord in the sense that he leads a stack... and that's it.
He/she can be a warlord, but not necessarily a high-ranking one.

On a different (but related) note:
The Blue-armored/black-haired chick might be a Warlord directly under Duke Nozzle (page 117, panel 3).
If Nozzle is the Sofa-King's Chief Warlord, he might be wearing a different style of armor than his troops (like Ansom does). Or maybe wearing different armor is only for Nobles... not sure yet.

Furthermore, we know Jetstone infantry wear yellow, the attack on the Courtyard consisted (mainly) of yellow, red/orange and blue infantry and the three biggest players in the RCC are Jetstone, Unaroyal and Sofa-King (not counting the elves and marbits).

That makes Jetstone yellow, Unaroyal red/orange and Sofa-King blue. Which in turn might mean Redhead is Unaroyal, and either Noble or Chief warlord but not both.

Krelon
2009-03-16, 04:40 AM
I just wanted to say (after a long no-posting phase) that Erf is again rocking!
Ansom down, most of the coalition down and Stanley returning to GK.. anything is possible.



I'd go much further than that. I think Parson is a titan. At the very start of the strip it says that the titans created Erfworld and Erfworld is very similar to, if not the, game that Parson was preparing for his friends to play.

Now I do not necessarily think this means Parson is invincible -- there are plenty of RPG story lines that involve killing gods. But the FoxMUD warlord may have very well called Parson what he actually is.

Hehe, that's a nice touch to the story. Parson is a Titan of his own creations and a pawn in a game created by other titans.

Kilkrazy
2009-03-16, 04:40 AM
don't know what does the last stand of the last stands is, but in the last panel the golem seems he's holding the axe like a guitar, so it might be a reference of a rock band or something?

Sorry if this has been addressed in a previous thread.

The rock golems are styled after British heavy metal bands. When they first appeared it was with the slogan NWOBHM (New wave of British heavy metal.) There probably was or is a band called Golem.

ishnar
2009-03-16, 05:06 AM
Hehe, that's a nice touch to the story. Parson is a Titan of his own creations and a pawn in a game created by other titans.

If this were the world Parson created, and not just similar, then he would already known the rules since he just spent months developing them.


(Parson's Klog #4)

So the pink&purple guy might be a warlord in the sense that he leads a stack... and that's it.
He/she can be a warlord, but not necessarily a high-ranking one.


Yes, but "with leadership ability" means the leadership stat and the leadership stat gives a bonus to units under that warlord's control.

Those weiner rammers are some kind of special unit, probably already a heavy, but definitely a heavy with even a low ranking warlord's bonus.

Parson hits pretty hard. He might have a crappy defense though.

DCR
2009-03-16, 05:23 AM
*glasses on*
start quote
*glasses off*
end of quote
Yyyyeeeeaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
*watches youtube vid of endless csi:miami oneliners*

I get it now. Hirarious, though I prefer not having to watch tv to enjoy my Erf. Really down on the art for the last two panels, I'm used to better in Erf... but better update than not, I suppose.

Almeric
2009-03-16, 05:35 AM
...
Yes, but "with leadership ability" means the leadership stat and the leadership stat gives a bonus to units under that warlord's control.

Those weiner rammers are some kind of special unit, probably already a heavy, but definitely a heavy with even a low ranking warlord's bonus.

Parson hits pretty hard. He might have a crappy defense though.

Well, I've played some games where siege-units have next-to-nonexistant attack and defence scores, and their only real purpose is destroying structures.
In these cases, you need a load of infantry and archers just to get the siege-units into position.

Besides, we cannot be sure what a leadership-bonus to his/her commanded units actually means. +attack? +defence? +stamina? Anyone's guess.

Still, one-shotting your first ever kill is pretty nice.

Vreejack
2009-03-16, 05:44 AM
Since nobody else has mentioned it, I'd just like to point out that the FoxMUD wiener rammer rider looks like David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust (http://www.amazon.com/Aladdin-Sane-One/dp/B00001OH7Q/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237177717&sr=8-1) character. Between that and giving orders ("Target the Warlord!") I'm pretty sure that was a warlord.

Aladdin Sane is not from Ziggy Stardust. They are separate albums and concepts. I agree that he's probably a warlord, however, and is probably praying "Titans..." after seeing his heavy mount get one-shotted from beneath him by the giant enemy warlord standing in front of him.

Oslecamo
2009-03-16, 05:51 AM
Well, I've played some games where siege-units have next-to-nonexistant attack and defence scores, and their only real purpose is destroying structures.
In these cases, you need a load of infantry and archers just to get the siege-units into position.


Cloth golems were able to do some heavy damage on the walls, and they aso were shown to hit hard against other units.

Also, the rammer was being used as a mount. For a warlord. You don't pick something as a mount if you can't trust it to fight in the frontline, and if you're the boss, you probably pick the best available. Like Stanley flies around in the most badass red dragon he has.

We know that Hamster's sword gives bonus to combat, and since it was created by a very very expensive spell it's only expected for it to make Hamster a combat machine besides a leadership machine and a ruthlness machine(he sacrificed Bogroll and the city whitout a wink when it was more profitable to do so).

Anyway, I would like to compare the coalition to a headless monster. It can't think anymore, and it's doomed, but it will angrily flail around with it's remaining limbs trying to finish off Hamster's force. The units will keep pouring in one after another untill Hamster's croacked or there's no one left to charge.

JLrep
2009-03-16, 07:38 AM
Upkeep:

Parson's upkeep is "over 1,000 Shmuckers a day", if I recall. As someone pointed out, this is obviously very high—probably high even for a warlord. Taking that with the three remaining casters, a handful of high-level golems and such, and Stanley's few remaining dwagons and no more than a few hundred probably-very-cheap (on the order of one or two or five Shmuckers a day) infantry, I can't imagine that the total upkeep cost at this point is more than a few thousand Shmuckers a turn. And we know that because of the original summoning spell used to get Parson, that Gobwin Knob had a treasury of ~150,000 Shmuckers. Assuming that not very many turns have passed since the beginning of the strip, and that the total fortune of GK didn't drop too drastically before now (I assume that it gained money far more quickly as a high-level city), I think it's safe to assume that they have more than enough money to last through a short siege. I also would bet that the city being demolished wouldn't accidentally destroy/cut off access from the treasury; that seems like too much of a game mechanic.

As for Parson:
I think some of the speculation here is silly, but mostly it's just premature. Or... overmature. We've known basically for a fact that Parson's unique status will come into play at some point (Klogs #4 & #7), especially in relation to the technically-unresolved question of how he really fits into Erfworld. "Special" could mean anything at all. Since the Sword of Ruthlessness was part of the spell, and considering the effectiveness of the other two artifacts, not to mention including the possibility of Parson having leveled up since klog #7, I've always figured that he'd be quite a force in combat. It has nothing to do with his actual skill, though! That's part of it. Because Parson still comes from a real-time world, but is in a world where game rules take precedent (for instance.. unled warriors auto-attack. Does that mean they're mindless zombies? No, just that the game rules are more compelling than anything else.). My thoughts are that Parson is really a very powerful warrior, maybe even on the level of Ansom/Stanley/Vinny/Etc. (it WAS a "perfect warlord" spell...), but that he simply doesn't KNOW it. However, if he actually fights, he will be a force to be reckoned with, even if he's unsure, overweight, etc. etc. The only reason this is odd is because he's the only person in the world that we know of whose "skills" don't seem to match his "stats."

Oh, and speaking of stats, I tend to assume that the difference between not seeing stats and seeing stats in Erfworld is the difference between glancing at somebody and examining them.

Sky_Schemer
2009-03-16, 09:06 AM
The first panel implies that they can see stats; they noted the lost leadership. I thought that Vinny was able to tell that the bats were out of place because they were unled, and wandering away from the combat.

No, the first panel does not imply that they can see stats. What Jillian most likely sees is that the units are following the auto-attack rules for unled stacks. If Jillian could see the stats of Transylvito units, she wouldn't need to ask Vinny "whose bats are those" in panel 8. She would be able to see the stats herself.

Hatu
2009-03-16, 09:54 AM
No, the first panel does not imply that they can see stats. What Jillian most likely sees is that the units are following the auto-attack rules for unled stacks. If Jillian could see the stats of Transylvito units, she wouldn't need to ask Vinny "whose bats are those" in panel 8. She would be able to see the stats herself.

I don't see how seeing stats would affect Jillian's question one way or the other. She could just as easily ask about a swarm with normal looking Doombat stats as she could about a stack of bats whose stats she isn't allowed to see.

-H

PePe QuiCoSE
2009-03-16, 10:16 AM
Sorry if this has been addressed in a previous thread.

The rock golems are styled after British heavy metal bands. When they first appeared it was with the slogan NWOBHM (New wave of British heavy metal.) There probably was or is a band called Golem.
No, that has been already covered when they appeared. What i was pointing out was the quote "Call itthe last... of the last of the last stands" might refer to a band with a similar image. Or maybe it's just a joke without a reference. If there is a reference, i don't know to what is it.

Lamech
2009-03-16, 10:28 AM
No, the first panel does not imply that they can see stats. What Jillian most likely sees is that the units are following the auto-attack rules for unled stacks. If Jillian could see the stats of Transylvito units, she wouldn't need to ask Vinny "whose bats are those" in panel 8. She would be able to see the stats herself.
We have seen nothing to imply that viels can't fake stats.. Nor have we seen anything to imply unit alligence is in the stats.
Secondly, Jillian may have seen a change in fighting style or the dwagons getting weaker, or she may have noticed that the dwagons have lower stats.
We can't be sure if enemy stats can be seen. There is weak evidence for both sides. We'll have to wait for more knowledge...

Another_Poet
2009-03-16, 11:01 AM
Oh man. Panel 8. For a moment my eyes fooled me and I thought Maggie was getting axed by a Coalition heavy.

Thank goodness it was axtually Pink Chick getting axed by a Heavy Metal Golem.

I don't know what Parson would do without Maggie. A question though:

Why isn't Wanda animating more Coalition bodies? There are tons of them now, might as well make use of them to shore up the numeric difference.

SteveMB
2009-03-16, 11:09 AM
We have seen nothing to imply that veils can't fake stats...

If units can see non-allied units' stats, a veil would pretty much have to include a faked stat block in order to disguise one unit as another. However, we don't really know the answer to that first question -- the only relevant example we have is the Eyemancer link showing a stat block for Jillian and/or her gwiffon, and that's not the same thing as normal commander-vision.


Why isn't Wanda animating more Coalition bodies? There are tons of them now, might as well make use of them to shore up the numeric difference.

The bodies are topside, under the rubble of the city. Wanda doesn't really have access to them.

Xerxos
2009-03-16, 11:18 AM
The bodies are topside, under the rubble of the city. Wanda doesn't really have access to them.
Or they just wait for the right moment - because currently there would not be enough to kill 3000 units

Another_Poet
2009-03-16, 11:23 AM
If units can see non-allied units' stats, a veil would pretty much have to include a faked stat block in order to disguise one unit as another. However, we don't really know the answer to that first question -- the only relevant example we have is the Eyemancer link showing a stat block for Jillian and/or her gwiffon, and that's not the same thing as normal commander-vision.



The bodies are topside, under the rubble of the city. Wanda doesn't really have access to them.


But the dirtamancer could start fetching them. And you'd think that with the massive collapse of the place at least some of them would be entrombed in the dungeon now.

At the very least she could start replacing the ones she already has, since they get weaker every turn. Sizemore could prioritise getting the bodies of the heaviest enemy units - some of those big cloth golems would make great uncroaked.

Kreistor
2009-03-16, 11:26 AM
Why isn't Wanda animating more Coalition bodies? There are tons of them now, might as well make use of them to shore up the numeric difference.

Wanda talks about uncroaking in 116 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0128.html). In it, she says a good croakamancer can mass animate all the corpses in a hex.

That suggests two possibilities:

1) The city occupies mroe than one hex and many of those corpses are not in the same hex as her.

In the past I've thought GK took up more than one hex, but I'm coming more to the conclusion it is one hex. No evidence either way.

2) Wanda is low on juice.

She already mass animated 2800 corpses today. Spellcasting is a depletable resource. Even though she's an excellent croakamancer, she may not be able to do twice what a bad croakamancer can't even do once.

Pointyleaf
2009-03-16, 11:35 AM
I seriously doubt she can uncroak on the enemy's turn.

SteveMB
2009-03-16, 11:48 AM
Wanda talks about uncroaking in 116 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0128.html). In it, she says a good croakamancer can mass animate all the corpses in a hex.

"...in a hex, or city zone." (emphasis added). Inside a city, the latter is applicable (or else it would be a meaningless qualification).


I seriously doubt she can uncroak on the enemy's turn.

The example linked above was during the Coalition turn (after their tunnel invasion was wiped out).

Pointyleaf
2009-03-16, 12:09 PM
The example linked above was during the Coalition turn (after their tunnel invasion was wiped out).

Nope - the tunnel fight and mass uncroaking happened during GK's turn, while Stanley was fighting at the pass and then retreating.

Golem
2009-03-16, 12:16 PM
Perhaps I'm imagining things. Perhaps I'm being obtuse...

...but a level one city... from whatever Gobwin Knob WAS--suggests that the entirety of the city fell, and possibly was 'started over'--akin to what Ansom thought Stanley was headed to FAQ's capitol to do. If, on Jillian's next turn, she was a barbarian, then is it possible that that's what Mr. Gotti is NOW--A barbarian, who doesn't know it because no one can see his stats, and who no one can see the stats of, with forces of his own in a fallen capitol?

Is Parson Gotti starting his own side?!

Think about it--anyone can move in to attack. He's establishing a perimeter for defense. He has only one zone available to him; which is the dungeon.

This is likely all speculation, and unlikely to be correct, but what would Stanley the Tool think if he came back--and saw that the remains of his city BELONGED TO HIS WARLORD?

Kreistor
2009-03-16, 12:20 PM
The example linked above was during the Coalition turn (after their tunnel invasion was wiped out).

Hmmm... which example? there's a lot of above to read through. I'll help...

98 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0108.html). Wanda uncroaks air units that could only have arrived during RCC turn, after GK's turn.

It's clear that the "can only cast during your own turn" rule from 64 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html) is complete hogwash. Parson doesn't reference it since then, and it has been broken so many times that it has become completely meaningless.

DevilDan
2009-03-16, 12:24 PM
I'd be very surprised if Jamie screwed up something like casting out of turn; we're just missing details.

"Safety dance." Bwahahaha. That rocks beyond what should be allowed by law.

SteveMB
2009-03-16, 12:42 PM
It's clear that the "can only cast during your own turn" rule from 64 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html) is complete hogwash.

That's clearly a reference to that specific spell (veiling*), not casting in general; there have been multiple examples of casting various other spells out of turn.

*Apparently, the restriction doesn't apply to all veiling (Bogroll was veiled on the enemy turn); perhaps it applies to veiling an entire stack, or something.

Drakron
2009-03-16, 01:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadouken

Everyone got the reference now?

(I am serious disappointed with a lot of people here)

BillyJimBoBob
2009-03-16, 01:30 PM
Parson actually drawing his sword... tasty :) Was this him killing the ... ehm... "Wiener Rammer"?That's my question also. It looks like Maggie was the "KI", while Parson was the "HACK." Learn by doing, indeed.

Quern is a small grinding stone, similar to a mill stone. I had to look that up, I'd never seen the word used anywhere before. It's appropriate for a hard rock golem sound effect.

Why are people assuming that the level of the city affects it's income?It's a fairly typical trope of TBS games.

I have a long shot theory here:

The reason the warlord riding the rammer said 'Titans...' was because for some reason they were able to identify 2 things: 1.) he has incredible strength and 2.) Parson is classified as royal.I think it's far more likely that the unit was saying the Erf equivalent of "good god" after getting smacked by magic and his mount cut out from underneath him and Parson and the golem about to treat him like grain under a quern.
My take on the "Titans" line was that this was something that Erfworlders would say instead of "Dear God.." or a similarly worded plea to a deity figure.This.

EBass
2009-03-16, 01:41 PM
Just like to say something here regarding Parson's personal bonus.

I think we can assume that Parson is a low level high end "unit". By that I mean in most stratergy games I've played you can level up units, but a high end unit will usually beat a leveled up low end unit. For example, I'd expect an unlevelled dwagon to trounce a max level marbit. For most games, upkeep does not go up if a unit levels up, the reason therefore I deduce that Parson is a low level high level unit is that his upkeep is high, but we've been told his chief warlord bonus is very low.

Now, considering Parson's low level, a large scale fight like this may allow him to gain enough XP to level up several times. If that happens, presumably his Chief Warlord bonus will increase as well and could end up being a very decisive factor.

Hatu
2009-03-16, 01:48 PM
*Apparently, the restriction doesn't apply to all veiling (Bogroll was veiled on the enemy turn); perhaps it applies to veiling an entire stack, or something.

Bogroll also had no Foolamancer in his stack while veiled. Presumably a Foolamancy scroll was used to let Maggie sub in for an actual Foolamancer, but it seems odd that the "in stack" restriction could be avoided that way. That would imply that Wanda's scrolls are actually superior to what an accomplished Foolamancer like Jack.

-H

HandofShadows
2009-03-16, 01:55 PM
Since GK is a Level 1 city, it still means it's a city so no one is a barbarian (yet). Sizemore was ordered back to near the gate and Parson seem unwilling to put the casters at any more risk if he can avoid it. So I don't see him sending Sizemore (or anyone else) out. Now someone may decide to try something, so go after the Arkenpliers.

Pointyleaf
2009-03-16, 02:02 PM
Hmmm... which example? there's a lot of above to read through. I'll help...

98 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0108.html). Wanda uncroaks air units that could only have arrived during RCC turn, after GK's turn.

It's clear that the "can only cast during your own turn" rule from 64 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html) is complete hogwash. Parson doesn't reference it since then, and it has been broken so many times that it has become completely meaningless.

Good points, thanks (and also to the person who pointed out the flying unit uncroaking).

It's possible Parson was mistaken about the rule - even if the "can only cast during your own turn" rule is right, it might have exceptions for stacks being under attack, casting inside city walls, etc. Who knows? It just seems to be contradictory right now.

For that matter, a caster who couldn't cast on an enemy's turn would be kinda useless if under attack..

Bilgore
2009-03-16, 03:11 PM
The first panel implies that they can see stats; they noted the lost leadership.
I don't see anything to indicate this. Rather, they know Ansom is dead, and they've known that he was leading the coalition at least as far back as when Jillian was captured.


I thought that Vinny was able to tell that the bats were out of place because they were unled, and wandering away from the combat.

More likely he just knew that they didn't belong to his faction because he couldn't see their stats...and since Transylvito is the only faction with bats, the rest is obvious.


Also...
Making the last stand in the courtyard, the "last of the last stands" in the dungeon (panel 2), and the "last of the last of the last stands" in the portal room (panels 11 & 12) suggests a tactic.

"Always have one more place to retreat to and delay the end, no matter how often you claim this is the fina stand."--Is it too late to name this tactic "The Inverse Scottie"?

shamelessmerc
2009-03-16, 03:37 PM
As was pointed out on the FIRST PAGE of this thread, the last two frames are a direct reference to CSI:Miami's Horatio Caine.

-Remove sunglasses
-Look to camera
-Deliver phenomonaly cheesy one-liner
-Play intro music: 'Won't get fooled again' by the Who (opening line: Yyyyeeeeaaagggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Starwaster
2009-03-16, 04:03 PM
That's clearly a reference to that specific spell (veiling*), not casting in general; there have been multiple examples of casting various other spells out of turn.

*Apparently, the restriction doesn't apply to all veiling (Bogroll was veiled on the enemy turn); perhaps it applies to veiling an entire stack, or something.


Perhaps exceptions exist for scrolls....

ShinyBrowncoat
2009-03-16, 04:20 PM
As was pointed out on the FIRST PAGE of this thread, the last two frames are a direct reference to CSI:Miami's Horatio Caine.

-Remove sunglasses
-Look to camera
-Deliver phenomonaly cheesy one-liner
-Play intro music: 'Won't get fooled again' by the Who (opening line: Yyyyeeeeaaagggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Except that for Horatio, step one is actually PUT BACK ON sunglasses...

BillyJimBoBob
2009-03-16, 04:43 PM
Except that for Horatio, step one is actually PUT BACK ON sunglasses...He actually does both, and occasionally does not either put on or remove the shades. YYYyyyyyeeeahhhhhhhh!

BurntOfferings
2009-03-16, 06:52 PM
Since nobody else has mentioned it, I'd just like to point out that the FoxMUD wiener rammer rider looks like David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust (http://www.amazon.com/Aladdin-Sane-One/dp/B00001OH7Q/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237177717&sr=8-1) character. Between that and giving orders ("Target the Warlord!") I'm pretty sure that was a warlord.

"The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars"

And that warlord looks like he has a lot of little eyes instead of two normal-sized ones.

jcworking
2009-03-16, 07:26 PM
Wanda already uncroaked on the other sides turn. Jillian was moving when she offed the Archon and she immediately uncroaked her and the other flying units.

The line in 64 where he says they can't cast on the enemies turn is somewhat limited. We don't know if that was specific to foolamancy as that was the subject of the discussion. As for Uncroaking generally Wanda said it comes from the mind. I am not sure if croakamancy follows the rules of the other magical schools, it is naughtimancy afterall. However if Wanda were to sit and concentrate on uncroaking, the infantry would lose the croakamancer bonus, and the dance fighting bonus. I think that will be the excuse for this not turning into the night of the living dead scenario. Where one Jetstone troop is uncroaked and offs another Jetstone troop who gets uncroaked ad-infinitum.

It would end the battle pretty quickly though.

fendrin
2009-03-16, 07:31 PM
Link (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html)

On review, there are not many factions that haven't been identified yet.

Jetstone: Gold. Dora and Weibnar.
Unaroyal: ???
Sofa King: Dark yellow and dark purple. Duke Nozzle.
Foxmud: Light purple and pink. Unknown warlord(s).
Hobbittm: ???
Transylvito: Black and gangster-like. Vinnie Doombats.
Charlescomm: Archons.

Blue. Unnamed female warlord w/dark hair.
Red and orange. Unnamed female warlord w/red hair.

So only two options.

My bet would be that Unaroyal is the red. Why? It's the color used in Uniroyal's logo:
http://www.uniroyal.com/seo/images/logo_uniroyal.gif


It seems there might be some confusion about warlords:

(Parson's Klog #4)

So the pink&purple guy might be a warlord in the sense that he leads a stack... and that's it.
He/she can be a warlord, but not necessarily a high-ranking one.

On a different (but related) note:
The Blue-armored/black-haired chick might be a Warlord directly under Duke Nozzle (page 117, panel 3).
If Nozzle is the Sofa-King's Chief Warlord, he might be wearing a different style of armor than his troops (like Ansom does). Or maybe wearing different armor is only for Nobles... not sure yet.

Furthermore, we know Jetstone infantry wear yellow, the attack on the Courtyard consisted (mainly) of yellow, red/orange and blue infantry and the three biggest players in the RCC are Jetstone, Unaroyal and Sofa-King (not counting the elves and marbits).

That makes Jetstone yellow, Unaroyal red/orange and Sofa-King blue. Which in turn might mean Redhead is Unaroyal, and either Noble or Chief warlord but not both.

If Duke Nozzle was the Chief Warlord of the blue Warlord, she wouldn't have acted against his judgment in panel five of this page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0131.html).


Bogroll also had no Foolamancer in his stack while veiled. Presumably a Foolamancy scroll was used to let Maggie sub in for an actual Foolamancer, but it seems odd that the "in stack" restriction could be avoided that way. That would imply that Wanda's scrolls are actually superior to what an accomplished Foolamancer like Jack.

-H

1) I expect that Jack may have created the scroll
2) I would expect that a scroll would be able to take the place of a caster
3) Bogroll was the only unit at the top of the tower, but as per Parson's order he was likely in Maggy's stack (she was in a different area of the same zone)
4) There may be a difference between veiling one unit vs. a stack
5) We have no evidence that Parson's assertion that a veil (or other spell) cannot be cast off-turn is correct.

Hatu
2009-03-16, 09:00 PM
1) I expect that Jack may have created the scroll
2) I would expect that a scroll would be able to take the place of a caster
3) Bogroll was the only unit at the top of the tower, but as per Parson's order he was likely in Maggy's stack (she was in a different area of the same zone)
4) There may be a difference between veiling one unit vs. a stack
5) We have no evidence that Parson's assertion that a veil (or other spell) cannot be cast off-turn is correct.

1) Unlikely. I get the impression that Jack had been part of the Eyemancer linkup for some time; given the importance of that setup, I doubt he'd be able to create any simple objects for Wanda while part of it. Note that Wanda also had Healomancy and Shockmancy scrolls, so I don't think the Foolamancy scroll was some sort of Eyebook style mega magic item. My guess is that Wanda bought them at some point, probably from the magic kingdom.

2) Yes, at least in the hands of a caster of some sort.

3) The rules are very vague, but that would be a very odd description of a stack. I doubt a stack can be split between different sub-zones. Besides, Maggie didn't seem to level and made no mention of it. I think Bogroll was on his own.

4) There may be, but there's no evidence to support that speculation other than this apparent contradiction. The terminology used is the same, so I think it's supposed to be the same spell.

5) No one corrected Parson at the time, and he had apparently just been talking over the mechanics of veiling. I think we can assume he wasn't completely off base.

-H

Devoured_Dude
2009-03-16, 09:39 PM
Did Parson just behead a Wiener-Rammer? "Learn by doing" indeed! I wonder if he'll level up soon?

slayerx
2009-03-16, 09:42 PM
3) The rules are very vague, but that would be a very odd description of a stack. I doubt a stack can be split between different sub-zones. Besides, Maggie didn't seem to level and made no mention of it. I think Bogroll was on his own.

I don't think it's ever been said that just being part of the same stack allows all units in that stack to gain experience... exp can still be given on an individual basis and thus maggie would not get exp for Ansom's death even if she was in the same stack



5) No one corrected Parson at the time, and he had apparently just been talking over the mechanics of veiling. I think we can assume he wasn't completely off base.

However, there could be a difference between casting when an enemy is attacking and casting when they are not...

In turn based games, a player can't take any actions on the enemy's turn... however, when the enemy attacks, the player is then able to cast any spells and direct units to attack, defend or whatever; once enganged in combat the player can move as he likes... in otherwords, if the foolamancer was with the dwagons during the enemy's turn, while he would not be able to cast a veil before jillian found the dwagons, he would be able to cast veils after she engaged them... as well as use any other magic

ofcouse casting a veil after Jillian started her attack would have been pointless... the viel would only be useful is casted before the attack; hence Parson's assertion that they could not cast on the enemy's turn... he was only talking about out of combat

DoctorJest
2009-03-16, 10:21 PM
But the FoxMUD warlord may have very well called Parson what he actually is.

Actually I am pretty sure they were just in the middle of saying "Titan's Testes" which has been established as an expletive in the strip prior, but was croaked in the middle of saying it.

DoctorJest
2009-03-16, 10:28 PM
Perhaps I'm imagining things. Perhaps I'm being obtuse...

...but a level one city... from whatever Gobwin Knob WAS--suggests that the entirety of the city fell, and possibly was 'started over'--akin to what Ansom thought Stanley was headed to FAQ's capitol to do. If, on Jillian's next turn, she was a barbarian, then is it possible that that's what Mr. Gotti is NOW--A barbarian, who doesn't know it because no one can see his stats, and who no one can see the stats of, with forces of his own in a fallen capitol?

Is Parson Gotti starting his own side?!

Think about it--anyone can move in to attack. He's establishing a perimeter for defense. He has only one zone available to him; which is the dungeon.

This is likely all speculation, and unlikely to be correct, but what would Stanley the Tool think if he came back--and saw that the remains of his city BELONGED TO HIS WARLORD?

No, you're confusing the idea of "level one city" with "new side". For a side to be defeated (and units in the field to go barbarian) all it's cities must be conquered. GK has not been conquered, just downgraded, but it still belongs to Stanley's side. If Parson left GK, and GK gets conquered (regardless of it's level), then Parson would go Barbarian. If then Parson returned and re-captured GK, he'd start a new side (as he would effectively be overlord of the city).

Also, a new side does not necessarily start with just a level 1 city. If a level, say, 3 city were conquered or captured by barbarian units, it still would form a new side even though the city is level 3. The city level seems to indicate the city's defenses, and little else that we've seen.

Wadoka
2009-03-17, 01:26 AM
Did Parson just behead a Wiener-Rammer? "Learn by doing" indeed! I wonder if he'll level up soon?

Nah. Natural 20, Vorpal Sword. Easy.

:smallbiggrin:

ishnar
2009-03-17, 05:47 AM
1) Unlikely. I get the impression that Jack had been part of the Eyemancer linkup for some time; given the importance of that setup, I doubt he'd be able to create any simple objects for Wanda while part of it. Note that Wanda also had Healomancy and Shockmancy scrolls, so I don't think the Foolamancy scroll was some sort of Eyebook style mega magic item. My guess is that Wanda bought them at some point, probably from the magic kingdom.

Nothing mega about it. It's a scroll and looks to work the way scrolls usually work in RPGs. It's a scroll not an artifact.



2) Yes, at least in the hands of a caster of some sort.
why do you assume one has to be a caster to use a scroll? That isn't written in stone as far as RPGs go.


3) The rules are very vague, but that would be a very odd description of a stack. I doubt a stack can be split between different sub-zones. Besides, Maggie didn't seem to level and made no mention of it. I think Bogroll was on his own.

I don't see any reason why Wanda couldn't use the scroll on Bogroll and then send him on his way. Just because you have to be in the same stack to cast doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be in the same stack to maintain. Especially when scrolls usually have a set duration since they don't draw on the caster's mana/spell slots/ whatever.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-03-17, 03:30 PM
why do you assume one has to be a caster to use a scroll? That isn't written in stone as far as RPGs go.Not as far as all RPGs go, but to date as far as Erfworld goes. Why do you assume that anyone other than a caster can use a scroll? We see Wanda cast from a scroll twice, and Maggie is said to have expended a bunch of scrolls. No other scroll use has been shown, and thus it's best to assume that it takes a caster. If it didn't take a caster, then Maggie should have had a level 1 foot man do her scroll casting for her, as she is a potent caster in her own right and has a lot of other duties calling for her attention during this conflict.

Kaed
2009-03-17, 03:37 PM
I have a feeling this sort of thing has never been done in the history of Erfworld, both because the whole 'linking casters' idea doesn't seem to be used very often due to its tendency to incapacitate/croak casters when the link is broken (and they are hard to come by, especially master-class), and because no one really seems to have much respect for Dirtamancers.

I mean, Stanley just sort of called him 'the turd guy' and even Jetstone warlords insultingly called him a burrower.

The idea of actually using the icky dirtamancers for combat rather than plumbing and golem defenses seems to be beyond most of the Royalty, at least.