Grendal (PEACH)

[xanaphia]

I was inspired to make Grendal by watching Beowulf on Tuesday. I haven't homebrewed in a while. I hope I'm not too rusty.

Grendal
Large Monstrous Humanoid
HD 10d8+40 (85)
Speed 50 ft. (10 squares)
Init: +5
AC 14 (+1 Dex, -1 size, +5 natural); touch 10; flat-footed 14
BAB +10/+5; Grp +23
Attack Slam +17 (1d6+7)
Full-Attack Slam +17/+12 (1d6+7)
Space 10ft./10ft.
Special Attacks Pounce, Improved Grab
Special Qualities Vulnerability to sonic
Saves Fort +7 Ref +8 Will +7
Abilities Str 25, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 6
Skills Climb +20
Feats Run, Improved Initiative, Power Attack
Environment: Cold hills
Organization Solitary
Challenge Rating 6
Treasure Standard gold, standard items.
Alignment Chaotic evil
Advancement 11-14 HD (Large), 15-20 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment +2

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss307/GreenStormElf/th_Photo4.jpg (http://s586.photobucket.com/albums/ss307/GreenStormElf/?action=view&current=Photo4.jpg)

This creature stands nine feet tall, with raw, ugly skin. It is stooped, with oversized arms. It has protubing orbs on the side of its head. It murmurs something to itself and attacks. Its hide is rubbery and grey.
Grendal is a half demon, born of a man and a demon woman. He lives in the hills above the frosted north.

He finds sounds extremely painful, and loud noises drive him into a murderous outrage.

Grendal is 9 feet tall and weighs 500 pounds. Grendal gibbers to himself and can reproduce noises, but otherwise cannot speak or understand language.

Combat
Grendal fights to silence those making noise. If attacked in its lair, it will defend himself to the death, but if it is attacking a group for being too loud, it will retreat if badly injured or if the noise level hasn't dropped. In a combat, it will prefer to attack those making the most noise.


Pounce: If Grendal charges a foe, it can make a full attack.

Improved Grab: To use this ability, Grendal must hit with a rend attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it can establish a hold.
Skills: Grendal gets a +10 racial bonus to Listen checks.

[sigurd]

I like it.

Nice to see a monster that doesn't have ambitions of world domination.

Grendel is the poster child of "Hey, you kids, Turn that Down!"

Sigurd

[Tensu]

Needs something to represent his immunity to all weapons. Grendel just isn't Grendel unless you have to fight him unarmed. also he should have swallow whole.

and if I recall it was less the noise and more the thought that people where having a good time and he wasn't. the noise was just how he knew they where there.

most depictions have him as being hairy, though the poem made no mention of this other than using lupine adjectives, but those where more likely metaphorical.

[sigurd]

How about expressing the immunity as a spell cast by the demon mother.

So - to get back to the story - Grendel's mom was a Hag, or in this case a demon that cast a spell of protection on her son before he went raiding. Make the spell powerful DR10\Unarmed Combat. Combine enough stuff to up the CR by 2 when Grendel is buffed for raiding.


Sigurd

[Tensu]

Oh and another thing: "attacking whoever is making the most noise" seems off since in the story Grendel just goes for whoever is closest. I also remembered that Grendel would always wait to attack the hall at night when everyone was asleep. further proof that it's more envy that promotes his attacks and not noise.

[sigurd]

None of it is proof. A story inspired Xanaphia. The monster is precisely what appeals to Xan.

Sigurd

[Tensu]

But if it's not Grendel, Why call it Grendel? Xan isn't trying to make a monster inspired by Grendel: he's trying to make Grendel, and I'll hold him to that.

Warning: this is a very sensitive topic to me. I can debate it civilly, but it's gotten me into some heated discussions all over the internet in the past. unless you're ready for a long debate and have the ability to undergo said long debate without blinding me with rage, I'd advise you to just walk away now

[Thurbane]

I like the stat block, but I think he needs to be a little more resilient, maybe DR and/or fast healing?

[xanaphia]

Needs something to represent his immunity to all weapons. Grendel just isn't Grendel unless you have to fight him unarmed. also he should have swallow whole.

and if I recall it was less the noise and more the thought that people where having a good time and he wasn't. the noise was just how he knew they where there.

most depictions have him as being hairy, though the poem made no mention of this other than using lupine adjectives, but those where more likely metaphorical.

You don't have to fight him unarmed, Beowulf just did. Also, he doesn't swallow whole, he bites people's heads off, at least in the movie. I was tempted to add a bite attack, but decided it probably was more a personal gratification thing than a combat tactic for Grendal. He also doesn't seem to have fast healing, just lots of DR and health. I was inspired by the idea of a troll for a large part.

Compare that to the Nemean Lion- it just was too tough, so Heracles had to choke it, because nothing else would work.

I apologise for getting any aspects of Grendal wrong. I was inspired by the movie, and ashamedly haven't read the original, except for bit and pieces.

You have a good point, Tensu, about the waiting until night thing. However, I feel that in the movie, he definitely is hurt by sound. I agree that Grendal is not only acting out of self defense in the story, but my non-story Grendal does.

So yeah. I guess it is just inspired by Grendal, nothing else.

By the way, should I have referred to Grendal as he or it in the description? I wasn't sure which was more appropriate.

[Tensu]

well, my biggest problem with going by the movie was that the movies was a load of bull I can only imagine the idiocy that took place during it's creation:"Hey guys, I've got an idea! Let make the hag hot, completely spitting in the face of the word "hag" and then we'll have Beowulf sleep with her!" "Yeah! and the dragon turns out to be their son!" "What?" "I said and the dra-" "I hear you. that's just stupid." *awkward silence* "Let's put it in anyway!" "Guys! guys! we've been entrusted to uphold the tradition of a proud and culturally relevant legend! This is the story that inspired Tolkin for crying out load! should we be true to it?" *awkward silence* "I know, at the end of the movie, we'll have Beowulf say his legend is wrong, and this is what really happened, completely spitting in the face of this story, it's author, and all the morals and ideals it was meant to communicate!

and Grendal Was indeed immune to mortal weapons, as the other men in the hall tried to fight him with their weapons to no effect. Grendal's mother had a similar ability, until Beowulf found a sword forged by giants that was capable of hurting her. and he used it to KILL her. And he KILLED HER TO DEATH! but her acid blood destroyed the sword. so a huge damage reduction might work, as I hear magic weapons can get around those, representing weapons not forged by humans.

also, when Grendal first enters the hall, he eats the person sleeping next to beowulf "hands, feet, and all", which is why I suggested swallow whole.

[sigurd]

Grendel was the book. In this case Grandel is a monster inspired by the book but different. This is entirely inspired by Xan's first statblock.


The Grandel Pool

The Grandel Pool is always an obscure location of great evil. It may form at a place of previous evil or with no discernible reason. This pool is capable of deep magic at the direction of the initiated.


The Grandel Dame

A demon connected with, and usually residing in or close to the pool. She is a creature of great physical power and magic. She exists to drag wanderers into the pool where she feeds on their lifestuff.

The Grandel

(See first post.) If the Grandel Dame has ambitions for the area around her pool, or if she receives willing followers, she creates Grandels. These are always male, brutes, loyal to the keepers of the pool.

Grandel Father\Grandel Consort

Evil, ambitious men may court the Grandel Dame and receive terrible power with her favour. Grandel Fathers retain their form and are not tied to the pool in the same manor. They learn demon magic and leadership of the creatures from their pool.


Sigurd

[xanaphia]

Good idea Sigurd.

Added picture.

[Tensu]

Male-pattern baldness?

[Fax Celestis]

Let make the hag hot, completely spitting in the face of the word "hag" and then we'll have Beowulf sleep with her!"

So's you know, hag can be used that way:


hag
1   /hæg/
–noun
1. an ugly old woman, esp. a vicious or malicious one.
2. a witch or sorceress.
3. a hagfish.

Is it a female spellcaster? If yes, you can call them a hag.

[Tensu]

I'd say "hag" definitely implies an ugly witch or sorceress.

[Fax Celestis]

I'd say "hag" definitely implies an ugly witch or sorceress.

The implication that she is ugly is certainly the case, but it is by no means the definition (as I've indicated above). It's an and/or instance.

[sigurd]

A truly powerful hag might be ugly for her moral outlook but very very capable of deceiving the senses and appearing fair. Lying with a hag to create notable children might have nothing to do with what she looked like.

Also many people are trying to redeem the word witch and many descriptions of female power.

There is at least one Beowulf movie where Grendel is cast as a primitive giant\ogre taking revenge on a brutal Hrothgar who destroyed his father. Its certainly not the Beowulf of the Old English tale but it makes an interesting story.

I prefer my Grandel. Xan's idea of Grendal as a half demon leaves his mother as the likely source of demon blood.

With Xan's permission, anyone want to help me stat it out?



Sigurd

[xanaphia]

Male-pattern baldness?

No, retarded ear-things.

[Tensu]

well, my mactionary says this:
a witch, esp. one in the form of an ugly old woman (often used as a term of disparagement for a woman) : a fat old hag in a dirty apron.
2 short for hagfish .

I'd also like to point out that, as far as my research has gone, the word "hag" has always been used in mythology to describe someone who was both ugly and a witch. I would argue that making it an an/or instance in most dictionaries is an error is judgement, as the word "hag" was never used to describe anyone beautiful, or even just not ugly, until the movie that shall not be called beowulf (TMTSNBCB).

I would allow for a Hag hiding her true appearance though, I seem to remember that happening in a few stories, and even if it didn't seems perfectly in character for them.

the idea of redeeming the word witch is an inherently stupid one, namely because the word was created for a very different reason than the word wiccan, even if both words where used to describe the same people by different cultures, and even though one is derived from the other, the words have different meanings. why would feminists/neo-pagans/whoever is trying to redeem the word want to be associated with it? they're just making more problems for themselves. if women want an example of female power, why don't they use some other mythological figure that wasn't presented as a demon or demon worshiper. I mean Lilith? That's who some feminists choose to represent them? are you freaking kidding me?

[Ossian]

Neat!

If I may throw 2 chips on the table, Grendal /Grendel (in one of the versions of the poem, i.e. the "christianized" one) just like his mom and Beowulf's offspring, were regarded as the last of their kind, as in they belonged to "satan's legions" or to some kind of demons and evil creatures bred in hell and bent on destroyng the world of men.

Not my favorite take on the matter in the slightest, but that could well justify G's mom ability to shapechange into a seductive succubus like woman, as well as leaving her "true form" vaguer and all in all kinda not so relevant to the story.

On the "weapons immunity" on the other hand, I'd simply give G a DR of 10 or 15 against all weapons, but those who are magic or enchanted. This said, there were none whatsoever available, hence DR 10 is like being nigh invulnerable.

He was just too strong and crazy to overwhelm him with arms, whereas a grapple or a joint lock (which is not like tryiong to break one's skin) would do the job. After all, ripping your arm off your shoulder is not like trying to overcome any DR, right?

I have, incidentally, read the same in one of Karl Edward Wagner's short stories, the one with Evingolis the albino bard. It says there, in the words of Kain, that werewolves are, of course, invulnerable to everything but silver and perhaps fire, but that they could also be harmed in a good wrestle. Long story short, you can't shoot him, stab him or slash him, but you can snap his neck, IF you are Beowulf, of course...

[Tensu]

Grendel and his mother weren't demons. They where descendants of Cain, from whom all monstrous humanoids are descended according to the author.

and everything I read said there is no Christianized version of beowulf: beowulf is just a Christian poem. are my sources dated?

Wow. I've played to many RPGs. for a second there I had Cain spelt with a K.

[Ossian]

Grendel and his mother weren't demons. They where descendants of Cain, from whom all monstrous humanoids are descended according to the author.

and everything I read said there is no Christianized version of beowulf: beowulf is just a Christian poem. are my sources dated?

Wow. I've played to many RPGs. for a second there I had Cain spelt with a K.

Ha ha! I get confused on the "K" too, and for the same reason. I need to cut back on rpgs...
Anyway, I have no precise source other than what memory serves me from University readings (my copy of the Beowulf is in another country right now). I seem to recall that what got written down was, a bit like for some aspects of norse mithology (Snorri) a version influenced by the srpeading Christianity, hence Beowulf, while still a very fallible human being, is some kind of Martyr figure and a champion of good Vs the spawn of Cain.

I am pretty sure there have been drunken vikings bragging about impossible feats of swimming and monsters slaying sprees way before the priests arrived. A legend of a hero, summoned by a king in distress, to slay a troll and be rewarded proportionally, who eventually succeeds in becoming king himself and the hero of his time, might weall have been circulating in the centuries before the writing down of the poem.

Christian or not, I could still see G's mother also as a demon, whatever the pantheon you take her from. A bit like the Linear Guild's Sabine, but with some +10 HD and +10 spell caster levels...

[xanaphia]

The annoying thing about D&D is that there really isn't a type that suits the Grendal type thing. A lot of Norse mythology has unique, slightly evil, monsters and NPCs, like Regin, Otr, Hreidmar, Fafnir, and Kvasir. But it's not obvious what type they are. I put them under Magical Beast or Monsturous Humanoid, but they could just as easily be Native Outsiders, or evil fey. I don't know what to do with them.

Also, D&D doesn't seem to be designed to facilitate unique monsters. Oh well.

[Tensu]

according to wikipedia Kvasir is a deity, and a good-aligned one at that.

Otr, Hreidmar, and Fafnir where all dwarves, though Fafnir turned himself into a dragon.

[Ossian]

See, I understand your perplexity. My take is that sources on whichever mithology you choose are kind of conflicting, contradictory, changing from time to time and even from author to author in the same period.

D&D does offer a number of templates and archetypes. The tough part is to choose which version of which mon ster, creature, God or Demon you want to stat.

Grendel might even be some kind of aberration, as he was ugly even by troll standards ;-)

M.

[Tensu]

you know what? tiefling might be best. and I think he was called "ogre" at one point in the story. I'd say he's either a monsterous humanoid or some kind of demon-heritage creature.

[Ossian]

I just checked the bloodlines, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#)and both "demon" and "devil" would fit in quite well. Demon is slightly better, as in they are more often savage and brutal. A major bloodline (taking G's mother as an Erinyes or better a Succubus) and some levels of barbarian, would give Grendel enough immunities to deal effortlessly with a bunch of drunkards such as those who hanged out at Hrothgar's Heorot Palace.

I can see them as mid level fighters, perhaps with the occasional multiclass in Barbarian or Ranger, or even simply Warriors. Nothing that a troll couldn't handle, imagine what could happen with a higher CR creature. Still, Beowulf could take it on Grendel.

M.

[Debihuman]

D&D Hags can take the form of beautiful women. So, having Grendel's mother take that form isn't entirely without precedent. However, this strays from the poem, so purists may take exception.

I think if you are making a version of Grendel that it helps to define whether it is the poetical version, the movie version or an alternate version. Any of those would be interesting.

The first problem is that Grendel should have 2 slams for full attack not iterative attacks since monsters don't have those with natural weapons. Also, if the monster only has one natural attack there should be a 1.5 Strength bonus to damage not straight Strength damage. Since Grendel is Large, he gets a -1 penalty to attack for his size.

Attack: Slam +16 melee (1d6+10)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +16 melee (1d6+10)

Grendel is missing a feat.

Rend should be listed under Special Attacks since you mention it under Improved Grab.

Here's how the Troll's rend works:



Rend (Ex): If a troll hits with both claw attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 2d6+9 points of damage.

Grendel's rend would probably be 2d6+7.

Skills: Grendel has 13 skill points to work with. Rather than putting so many skill ranks into Climb, it would make more sense to give him a Climb speed of half his land speed. Then, because he would have a Climb Speed, he would automatically have a +8 racial bonus to Climb. This leaves plenty of skill points to put into Listen and Move Silently.


Just a few suggestions.

Debby

[Tensu]

Why would Grendel be less a render than a troll? Rend would work. That or swallow whole. I can't remember if Grendel tears people apart before he eats them or not. I'm guessing not, Since Nobody woke up until Grendel and Beowulf got into a grapple-off, and Unless he broke the guy's neck before he starting ripping him apart there would have been a lot of screaming.

He did mention the movie, but as the movie was so wrong and I'm such a purist, I spoke up anyway. You may find this a little petty, but I regret nothing!

[The_Snark]

He did mention the movie, but as the movie was so wrong and I'm such a purist, I spoke up anyway. You may find this a little petty, but I regret nothing!

Actually, I don't feel the movie was wrong so much as different. This is a bit of an unusual argument for me, since I'm generally among the people who get annoyed when a book-to-film (or what-have-you-to-film) adaptation changes things pointlessly. Part of this, I'll admit, was that I wasn't a great fan of Beowulf; I didn't dislike it, but nor am I particularly attached to it. Mostly, though, I felt like there was an actual purpose behind the changes, rather than the usual attempt to insert "drama" into what the scriptwriter felt was a boring part. They made him into a tragic hero, whose downfall is brought about by his own flaws (namely, his desire for glory). It wasn't that they didn't know their source material; I felt like the writers were having a great deal of fun during the latter half of the movie, playing around with the tone while keeping most of the events similar.

It helps to look at it as the Wicked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked:_The_Life_and_Times_of_the_Wicked_Witch_of_ the_West) to Beowulf's Wizard of Oz; the movie isn't an adaptation of the poem so much as an alternative story. It wasn't a great movie, but it was interesting to me simply because I could see there had been actual thought behind the changes, rather than just pressure to make it more exciting or dramatic. (I mean, they even sacrifice the fight scene with Grendel's mother; normally, a bad movie adaptation would be adding action scenes.)

Anyway... sorry for going a bit off-topic there. The statblock looks OK, although like Tensu I think some kind of damage reduction might be appropriate (movie or poem, weapons didn't have much of an effect on him). CR looks okay compared to monsters like trolls and giants, although depending on the defenses you give him you may want to raise it a point or two.

[Tensu]

And the problem with that outlook is that they where not supposed to be telling a new story: They where supposed to be telling Beowulf. Beowulf already had a message, and they ruined that message. Beowulf is not supposed to be some kind of lust-driven psychopath: he's a hero. In our zeal to make Heros more "realistic" (read: pathetic) we forget to make them heroic. Beowulf is supposed to be a larger-than life hero who comes down, kicks ***, takes names, and then kicks more ***, not some "tragically flawed" pansy who can't keep himself under control long enough to not have sex with a demon. It turned into "not even Beowulf was above lust, therefore it is ok for us to continue breeding ourselves into extinction!". Our society doesn't need whiny, angst-y madmen who can't control their own emotions. that's the kind of people who got our civilization into this mess. We need HEROS, more people who can glorify self-control. Batman is so popular right now because he's exactly the kind of hero we need: Unshakable in his principles, willing to make sacrifices, and most importantly not engaged in a lot of romance.

We've forgotten that the hero is not someone that the audience is supposed to relate to: It's supposed to be someone the audience can strive to be like.

Beowulf was not a hero in that movie, as the damage being done was his fault.

[Debihuman]

For all you purists, here is a more traditional view of Grendel and his mother.

Originally Posted by demiurge1138 of the En World forums.

So, after nightfall, Grendel set out
for the lofty house, to see how the Ring-Danes
were settling into it after their drink,
and there he came upon them, a company of the best
asleep from their feasting, insensible to pain
and human sorrow. Suddenly, then
the God-cursed brute was creating havoc:
greedy and grim, he grabbed thirty men
from their resting places and rushed to his lair,
flushed up and inflamed from the raid,
blundering back with the butchered corpses
Beowolf Lines 115-125

This loping horrid creature resembles a man, but no man was ever so tall or so feral. Its hide is thick and its jaws and claws appear adept at tearing human flesh. It carries over its shoulder a massive bag crafted out of dragonskin.

Grendel is the ogre-like descendent of Cain, the first murderer. Hated by the gods, he lived in a haunted mere with his mother, a powerful hag. Grendel fed on wild game and the occasional traveler until King Hrothgar built Herorot, a great hall with the purpose of being a stronghold and center for merriment. When investigating Herorot, he heard a song singing the praises of the Creator, and fell into a blind and hateful rage. From that day forward, he raided the hall nightly, grabbing and killing sleeping warriors and shoving them in his dragonskin bag to be eaten later.

Grendel’s reign of terror lasted 12 years, before the hero Beowulf came to Herorot to kill him. The unsuspecting Grendel found himself in the iron grip of Beowulf, who wrenched off his arm as the creature escaped. Grendel then died in the swamps from his grievous wound, and his mother swore revenge.


Grendel
Cain-son* Bog Giant Barbarian 2, Rogue 1
Large Giant
Hit Dice: 8d8+2d12+1d6+99 (159 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40 ft., swim 40 ft.
Armor Class: 22 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +11 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+24
Attack: Claw +19 melee (1d6+12)
Full Attack: 2 claws +19 melee (1d6+12) and bite +17 melee (1d8+6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Rage 1/day, rend 2d6+18, sneak attack +1d6
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., DR 15/bludgeoning, low-light vision, trapfinding, scent, uncanny dodge
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +6, Will +2
Abilities**: Str 35, Dex 15, Con 29, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +11*, Listen +7, Move Silently +11, Swim +20
Feats: Cleave, Great Fortitude, Power Attack, Stealthy
Environment: Cold marsh
Organization: Solitary (Unique)
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: Dragonskin bag of Grendel
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class

Combat

Grendel prefers to avoid fair fights, and always attacks from ambush. Whether this consists of hiding in the mere or merely creeping towards a sleeping human depends on the situation. If he fails to kill his opponent on the first attack, he is liable to fly into a rage, biting and clawing his foe until one of them is dead.

Rend (Ex): Whenever Grendel hits an opponent with two claw attacks, he grabs and tears the opponent’s flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 2d6+12 damage.

Skills: Grendel has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

Grendel has a +4 racial bonus to all Hide checks. This bonus increases to +8 in marshes.

* The Cain-son template is the half-troll template, with the fast healing replaced with damage reduction.

** These abilities are based on the elite array.

New Magic Item

Dragonskin bag of Grendel
This large sack is crafted from the hides of black dragons and swamp serpents. The bag has the ability to affect any objects carried within it as if a shrink item spell had been cast on them. The objects remain shrunken until they are removed from the sack. Grendel was not the first owner of this item; he gained it by waylaying a traveler. Grendel uses the sack to store and carry bodies.
Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, shrink item; Price 18,000gp (15,000 if made as a mundane sack); Weight 2 lbs



Quickly the one who haunted those waters,
who had scavenged and gone her gluttonous rounds
for a hundred seasons, sensed a human
observing her outlandish lair from above.
So she lunged and clutched and managed to catch him
in her brutal grip; but his body, for all that,
remained unscathed: the mesh of the chain-mail
saved him from the outside. Her savage talons
failed to rip the web of his warshirt.

Beowolf Lines 1497-1505

Roleplaying

This strange creature is shaped vaguely like a woman, but she is bony and gaunt, and taller then any normal woman. Her skin is covered in a layer of tough scales, and sharp claws tip her webbed fingers. Her gate is awkward and bent on land, but she moves with unusual grace underwater.

The true name of Grendel’s mother is unknown; her small role in history is completely defined by her son. She was a large hag-like creature who lived in a submerged hall in a haunted mere with her son. She was more intelligent and wary than her offspring, and she often lurked in the swamps, feeding on lost travelers and wildlife while her son brought her treasures from the outside world.

When she found Grendel dead in the mere from obvious battle-wounds, she flew into a flurry of rage, and traced her son’s blood back to Herorot. She waited until the warriors had fallen asleep, then stalked into the hall and killed Aeschare, Hrothgar’s counselor, taking his body into the swamp to mimic how her son was taken from her. Beowulf followed Grendel’s mother into the swamps and dove after her. Although Grendel’s mother was able to out-grapple Beowulf, her claws could not find purchase in his chainmail. After dragging Beowulf into her hall to finish him with her knife, he used a giant sword from her hoard to behead her.

Grendel’s Mother
Cain-son* Advanced Annis Hag Fighter 4
Large Giant (Augmented Monstrous Humanoid)
Hit Dice: 11d8+4d10+105 (176 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 20 ft., swim 40 ft.
Armor Class: 24 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +14 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+36
Attack: Claw +28 melee (1d6+13) or Large +2 shortsword +29 melee (1d8+15)
Full Attack: 2 claws +28 melee (1d6+13) and bite +25 melee (1d8+6) or Large +2 shortsword +29/+24/+19 melee (1d8+15) and bite +25 melee (1d8+6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, rake 1d6+13, rend 2d6+19
Special Qualities: Blood curse, darkvision 60ft, DR 15/adamantine, hold breath, scent, SR 19
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +9, Will +10
Abilities**: Str 36, Dex 12, Con 24, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +11, Listen +14, Move Silently +15, Spot +14, Survival +8, Swim +21
Feats: Alertness, Blind-fight, Cleave, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Power Attack, Track, Weapon Focus (claw)
Environment: Cold marsh
Organization: Unique, or troupe (Grendel’s mother plus 1d4+1 nycars)
Challenge Rating: 13
Treasure: Large +2 shortsword, Large +1 adamantine giantbane greatsword and double coins
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class

Combat

Grendel’s mother dislikes fighting fair; she usually attacks from ambush. She prefers to grapple opponents, drag them into the mere, and tear them to pieces with her claws. If this fails, she relies on weapons, which she keeps in her hall.

Blood Curse (Su): In addition to her damage reduction, Grendel’s mother is protected by a vindictive curse should she happen to die. Any slashing or piercing weapon that deals the killing blow to Grendel’s mother is utterly destroyed, melting into a puddle of bloody metal. A magical weapon gets a Fortitude save (DC 22) to avoid this effect.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, Grendel’s mother must hit an opponent with a claw attack. If she gets a hold, she deals automatic claw damage every round and can rake.

Hold Breath (Ex): Grendel’s mother can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to 6x her Constitution score before she risks drowning.

Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +28, 1d6+13 damage.

Rend (Ex): If Grendel’s mother hits an opponent with two claw attacks, she grabs and tears the opponent’s flesh. This attack automatically deals 2d6+19 points of damage.

Skills: Grendel’s mother has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. She can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. She can use the run action while swimming, provided she swims in a straight line.

* The Cain-son template is the half-troll template, with the fast healing replaced with damage reduction

** These ability scores are based on an elite array.

[Tensu]

I am pleased now!

Though I must ask... what's a Nycar?

I know the poem mentioned Grendel's mother's lair was surrounded by reptilian water-monsters and lesser dragons. something along those lines?

[The_Snark]

If your grievance against the movie was that they decided to tell a different story than the poem did... well, can't argue with that, especially if you liked the original better. They changed the tone and message pretty completely. But like I said, just because Wicked isn't the Wizard of Oz doesn't make it inherently horrible. I suppose they might have changed the name, so that people who hadn't read the original would be aware it's different, but they wanted to capitalize on the name recognition.

It might help that I didn't find the original character all that compelling. Yes, he was a brave hero, yes he could kill anything that moved because he was virtuous and God was on his side, but that doesn't make him all that interesting. (To me, anyway; I'll grant that a properly presented mysterious hero can come across as really cool, but the portrayal didn't do it for me.) The story was interesting, the monsters were interesting, the insights into the culture were interesting... the hero was not. That's why I didn't mind their altered Beowulf as much as you do, I guess. Other changes irritated me (Grendel's mother and the revelation of Grendel's parentage were really annoying until I realized why they were doing it, and I still prefer the original Grendel and mother), but Beowulf himself is not a character I was attached to.

[sigurd]

I'm putting in a vote for inspiration and free-wheeling revisionism. I like the poem and have read the Klaeber version. I'm not sure however, that for the game its not more fun to have a more flexible monster.

Grendal - the OE story - as a module would be cool. Complete and rigid authenticity would be very interesting. I love Debihuman's grendal too.

Grendal - Inspiration from the Movie - deserves a little latitude and might ultimately be more useful in the game for its flexibility.

Go Xanaphia for creating an interesting thread that we are at risk of hijacking.

Just my .02

Sigurd

[Tensu]

I found the fact that Beowulf was incapable of wielding weapons because he was just too awesome to be quite the interesting character trait. I've cited Beowulf as how fumbles can be heroic.

I would have been fine if they gave B-wulf a little more characterization than he was originally given in the poem. Myths do tend to get a little more complex as time goes on. but that's not what they did: they completely changed what Beowulf was supposed to be, and that is where I must draw the line.

[Debihuman]

Here are the Nycar.

Originally Posted by demiurge1138 of the En World forums.

The water was infested
with all kinds of reptiles. There were writhing sea-dragons
and monsters slouching on slopes by the cliff,
serpents and wild things such as those that often
surface at dawn to roam the sail road
and doom the voyage.
Beowulf Lines 1425-1430

Roleplaying

This serpentine creature is mottled green and gray, with a crested, almost dragon-like, head. Its two limbs are little more than flippers with claws, although it can slither with surprising speed.

Nycars are a very primitive form of dragon; sages believe they predate even the wyverns and linnorms in antiquity. They are strict carnivores with little intelligence that hunt in swamps and bogs for warm-blooded prey. For dragons, they are quite common, appearing wherever there is food and stagnant water. As such, they have many names, including swamp serpent, lesser linnorm, and dragonsnake.

The Geat hero Beowulf encountered several nycars during his adventuring youth; the swamp where Grendel’s mother lived was crawling with them, and his retainers dispatched one while he suited up for battle.

Nycar
Large Dragon
Hit Dice: 10d12+40 (105 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft., swim 40 ft.
Armor Class: 20 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +10 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+20
Attack: Bite +15 melee (1d10+6 plus disease)
Full Attack: Bite +15 melee (1d10+6 plus disease) and 2 claws +10 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. (coiled)
Special: Attacks Constrict 1d8+9, disease, improved grab
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, dragon traits, low-light vision, SR 19
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +10
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 5, Wis 17, Cha 13
Skills: Hide –3*, Move Silently +14*, Spot +16, Survival +16, Swim +14
Feats: Ability Focus (disease), Diehard, Endurance, Track
Environment: Cold and temperate marsh
Organization: Solitary or pack (2-7)
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: Half standard
Alignment: Usually neutral evil
Advancement: 11-20 HD (Large), 21-30 HD (Huge)

Combat

Nycars are quite stealthy in their natural habitat, and prefer to ambush their prey. Nycars usually grab their victims from hiding, and bite repeatedly until the foe is dead. If the prey escapes, the nycar follows it through the swamp, waiting for it to die from the septic bacteria it spreads with its bite.

Constrict (Ex): A nycar deals 1d8+9 points of damage each round on a successful grapple check.

Disease (Ex): Any creature hit by a nycar’s bite attack must make a Fortitude save (DC 21) or contract linnorm fever, a horrible wasting disease that acts like an accelerated form of leprosy. The incubation period is 12 hours, and it 1d6 points of Strength and 1d3 points of Constitution damage per day.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the nycar must hit an opponent with a bite attack. If it gets a hold, it deals automatic bite damage and can constrict.

Skills: A nycar has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. They can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. They can use the run action while swimming, provided they swim in a straight line.

Nycars receive a +8 racial bonus to all Hide and Move Silently checks made in marshes.

[Debihuman]

I'm putting in a vote for inspiration and free-wheeling revisionism. I like the poem and have read the Klaeber version. I'm not sure however, that for the game its not more fun to have a more flexible monster.

Grendal - the OE story - as a module would be cool. Complete and rigid authenticity would be very interesting. I love Debihuman's grendal too.

Grendal - Inspiration from the Movie - deserves a little latitude and might ultimately be more useful in the game for its flexibility.

Go Xanaphia for creating an interesting thread that we are at risk of hijacking.

Just my .02

Sigurd

Oh no, it's not "my" Grendel at all. Demiurge gets all the credit. I merely reposted his work.

While the movie version of Grendel is a far cry from the poem, I thought it was an interesting interpretation. I actually found Grendel to be slightly sympathetic. He is a deformed, lacking basic hygiene and intelligence, and he is driven to madness by the sounds of revelry. His pain is almost tangible.

Grendel's mother is the ultimate seductress and the mother of monsters. Apparently the Kings of Demark are all doomed to be seduced by her and to be the father of her monstrous sons, first Hrothgar [though there may have been others before him], then Beowulf and the movie ends with her confronting the next king. Perhaps this is what Shakespeare was referring to when he wrote," Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

Debby

[The_Snark]

I found the fact that Beowulf was incapable of wielding weapons because he was just too awesome to be quite the interesting character trait. I've cited Beowulf as how fumbles can be heroic.

I would have been fine if they gave B-wulf a little more characterization than he was originally given in the poem. Myths do tend to get a little more complex as time goes on. but that's not what they did: they completely changed what Beowulf was supposed to be, and that is where I must draw the line.

Fair enough. :smallsmile: I considered it a cut above most heavily-altered film adaptations, simply because they had a coherent goal behind their changes, but I can hardly blame you for liking the original story more than the one they wrote.