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MrSeth
2006-07-10, 11:21 AM
Dwelf

"What do you get when you cross a dwarf with an elf?"
"Cold fusion!"

The almost-unheard of crossing of Dwarven and Elven genetics means that currently only the most staunch researcher has heard of Dwelfs (not Dwelves). Despite this, they are becoming more and more common as both parent races become less xenophobic. Dwelfs stand four and a half to five foot tall, weigh around 140 to 180 pounds on average, and have brown or gray eyes. Males usually have trim, short beards. They have no body hair besides that on their head and face. Dwelfs maintain some of their Dwarven parent's toughness and their Elven parent's grace; however, they face several genetic problems.

Dwelfs do need to sleep, but the mingling with Elven blood gives the entire fledgeling race a propensity towards insomnia. Let it never be said that Dwelfs are morning people. The Elven metabolism also voids any Dwarven resistance to toxin; quite the opposite is true. Dwelfs are the cheapest drunks you'll ever meet. They maintain a very long lifespan, quite nearly that of their Elven parent. Finally, the wildly differing muscle structure of their parents make Dwelfs less powerful than they appear to be.

Most Dwelfs are raised in either Dwarven society, or else in fringe outsider communities. The lack of Dwelfs that live in Elven society is more due to the parents' worrying about rejection than it is about actual rejection - while most peoples' minds boggle at the idea of the pairing, the handful of Dwelfs that exist face little in the way of scorn from their fellows, sans for the fact that Dwarves make fun of their inability to hold their drink. For a race that has no patron god of their own, Dwelfs have a very strong spiritual bend. Those that do not enter the clergy are nonetheless zealous in their chosen faith, although rarely overbearing or "preachy".

*+2 con, -2 str. Dwelves are hardy, but their musculature isn't as efficient as it should be.

*Medium size

*Base speed: 30 feet.

*Dwelfs are humanoid with both the Dwarf and Elf subtypes.

*Dwelfs are entitled to a search check (as Elves) when passing a hidden door.

*+2 on Balance, Move Silently, and Tumble checks. Dwelves are naturally graceful.

*Darkvision (30 feet), Low Light Vision

*Insomnia: If a Dwelf's rest is interrupted, they take a -1 penalty to all rolls for the four hours after they finish resting, unless they rest for eight hours or more after the interruption.

(Alternate rule: Dwelves need an extra 2 hours to get a full night's rest. If they are wakened early, they take a -1 on all rolls for a number of hours equal to 1 1/2 times the number of hours they were awakened early. In other words, if a party sleeps eight hours and awakens their Dwelf comrade immediately, he takes a -1 penalty on all rolls for three hours, as he was awakened two hours early.)

*Toxin problems: Dwelves take a -2 penalty on Fortitude saves against any sort of poison, and a -3 against the effects of alcohol in particular.

*+2 racial bonus on Appraise and Knowledge (History) checks - the Dwelf has access to two cultures with strong historical bents.

*Automatic languages: Common, and Elvish or Dwarven. Additional languages: Elvish, Dwarven, Gnomish, Halfling, Orc, Giant, Goblish.

*Favored class: Cleric.

Zeful
2006-07-10, 12:18 PM
This is interesting...

...

...

odd, but interesting.

They seem balanced but I don't know much about balance.

Yuki Akuma
2006-07-10, 12:21 PM
Dwelfs should at least have to sleep for four hours... otherwise they have it better off than elves!

Zeful
2006-07-10, 01:32 PM
They have to sleep for ten hours. 8 hours normally plus the extra two from insomnia quality.

Were-Sandwich
2006-07-10, 01:47 PM
No. Just plain no....

sniffles
2006-07-10, 03:11 PM
I've always found it curious that in standard D&D rules only humans can interbreed with any other race, and then only with elves and orcs. Of course I know the source for that concept, but I don't see why current game designers still stick to it. It's nice to see someone trying to challenge that stereotype. :)

I'd be a little concerned by letting your dwelves still have a full 30-foot move with no encumbrance penalty. That seems like a bit too much of an advantage. It also conflicts with letting them have a bonus to Balance, Move Silently and Tumble checks. It's really not balanced to give them almost no penalties.

I also wouldn't give them both darkvision and low-light vision. Maybe shorten their darkvision range or increase their low-light range instead.

While Insomnia is a fun idea, for practical purposes it's pointless. There are no specific game rules regarding sleep. How would you have a GM administer this insomnia under the rules?

I think your save modifiers for poison and alcohol are a bit high. You could say dwelves get a -1 to all saves, or all Fort saves. Or just -1 vs poisons wouldn't be bad. Are there actually any rules about alcohol effects?

MrSeth
2006-07-10, 04:19 PM
I've always found it curious that in standard D&D rules only humans can interbreed with any other race, and then only with elves and orcs. Of course I know the source for that concept, but I don't see why current game designers still stick to it. It's nice to see someone trying to challenge that stereotype. :)

I'd be a little concerned by letting your dwelves still have a full 30-foot move with no encumbrance penalty. That seems like a bit too much of an advantage. It also conflicts with letting them have a bonus to Balance, Move Silently and Tumble checks. It's really not balanced to give them almost no penalties.

I also wouldn't give them both darkvision and low-light vision. Maybe shorten their darkvision range or increase their low-light range instead.

While Insomnia is a fun idea, for practical purposes it's pointless. There are no specific game rules regarding sleep. How would you have a GM administer this insomnia under the rules?

I think your save modifiers for poison and alcohol are a bit high. You could say dwelves get a -1 to all saves, or all Fort saves. Or just -1 vs poisons wouldn't be bad. Are there actually any rules about alcohol effects?




Alcohol is typically treated like a poison - Elven wine is fort save dc5, typical ale is dc10 and the Dwarven "Good Stuff" is dc15-30, depending on the type. For each drink you have, the DC increases by 1/5th the base (so Elven wine increases by one per each drink, normal drink by 2, and Dwarven liquor by 3-6.) Failure indicates that the character is treated as being stunned (or some other appropriate stat effect) for a number of hours equal to the number of drinks they imbibed.

Still not convinced that the 30 foot speed is too much, though... they get a penalty to fortitude where Dwarves gain a bonus, have no automatic weapon proficiencies, and Insomnia can be pretty inconvenient (I've clarified the trait above).

sniffles
2006-07-11, 11:37 AM
I'm not sure that the Fort penalty outweighs allowing them so much freedom from encumbrance.

Now Insomnia seems like a really nasty penalty, though, so if it can be effectively used in-game then it would counterbalance the movement rate. But I'm not sure I'd want to be in a party with an insomniac Dwelf. ;)

When do we get to see a writeup for Dworcs or Dwomes (Gnorfs?)? ;D

The Prince of Cats
2006-07-11, 12:17 PM
I've always found it curious that in standard D&D rules only humans can interbreed with any other race, and then only with elves and orcs.
Darksun? A mul is half dwarf and half human. Evil little blighters on the whole but they are bred for gladiator pits...

RoboticSheeple
2006-07-11, 01:30 PM
OUCH. Really.

Here's the break down.

The Base speed thing, not too much of an advantage because the -str scares away most fighters and the like. Not only that but a H's Handy Haversack is one of those standard cheapo items. So the only core classes that really gain something here are the Druid and the Cleric. Which thinking about it (There are no Druids or normal Clerics in the campaign setting I'm making so I actually forgot about them) this just gives another boost to CoDzilla, espically a Druid. So I've changed my minds because this is a huge reason to play a Dwelf druid or cleric. So I think the move speed needs to be lowered.

The search thing is nominal.

The racial bonuses are decently varried and actually useless for many classes.

Insomina: Teh Nerfing. Really FORCING 10 hours of sleep means the rest of the party is going to have to set their lives around the Dwelf. And if they need to wake up and prepare spells for an hour then too? That's 11 hours of the dwelf having to be protected by the party.
No one NEEDS sleep in DnD and you've just made it very important to dwelfs. A house rule that characters need sleep may be in order.

the negatives to poison, they hurt. But they also keep the idea of a dwelf rogue from being too ideal.

Skyserpent
2006-07-11, 01:32 PM
As long as we never reach Elforc (which is either a laymans mishmash of elf and orc, or spanish for "The Fork")

Lord Iames Osari
2006-07-20, 10:23 AM
While Insomnia is a fun idea, for practical purposes it's pointless. There are no specific game rules regarding sleep. *How would you have a GM administer this insomnia under the rules?


Not neceassarily. IIRC, A spellcaster who prepares spells has to get a a full night's rest (4 hrs for elves, 8 hrs for everyone else).

Laser_Ghost
2006-07-20, 10:41 AM
So I've changed my minds because this is a huge reason to play a Dwelf druid or cleric. So I think the move speed needs to be lowered.


Is a druid really gonna worry about move speed in natural form anyway? Other than that (if I recall the wildshape errata correctly), the CON bonus is gonna be a plus for druids and the stength penalty isn't gonna hurt. So, yeah, maybe nerf the dwelf druid for different reasons.

Also, Ring of Sustenance kinda negates the disadvantage.

Nema_Fakei
2006-07-20, 03:23 PM
" *+2 con, -2 str. Dwelves are hardy, but their musculature isn't as efficient as it should be."
It's a nice idea, but I think it's too nasty - the Str penalty is enough to turn a lot of people off the smaller races, plus it contradicts with the lack of encumbrance idea below. I'd stick with the sum of the two - bonus to dex, penalty to charisma, or just no change.

"*Base speed: 30 feet. Dwelfs can maintain their speed when wearing medium armor or heavy armor and a light load."
This, to me, makes little sense. Dwarves maintain their speed because of their build and distribution - the same reason why they're slow. You've just created a dwarf subrace that's going to go faster than a human when both are armoured. I'd say 30' and leave it at that.

"*Dwelfs are entitled to a search check (as Elves) when passing a hidden door."
Good one, also fits the stonecunning bonus.

"*+2 on Balance, Move Silently, and Tumble checks. Dwelves are naturally graceful."
At this point, I wonder if we've got some sort of Medium-sized halfling, what with the loss of strength bonus. It seems a poor mimic of the elven dex bonus - and a little incongruous with the concept.

"*Darkvision (40 feet), Low Light Vision"
Isn't 30' the normal rounding point?

"*Insomnia:"
The Dwelf slows the party down. This is a big pain (different to a disadvantage in that it affects the party) - I'd reduce it to a normal resting pattern, but a 4-hour penalty to rolls if the sleep is interrupted.

"Toxin problems: Dwelves take a -2 penalty on Fortitude saves against any sort of poison, and a -3 against the effects of alcohol in particular."
Ingenious.

"*Favored class: Cleric."
I like this. To those who fear overpowered Clerics, remember this only helps multiclass characters.

Hm.
The way I'd do it would be:

No ability score change.
Medium, 30'.
Humanoid with both subtypes.
Favoured class: Cleric
Darkvision (30'), Lowlight vision.
Insomnia: If a Dwelf's rest is interrupted, they take a -1 penalty to all rolls for the four hours after they finish resting, unless they rest for eight hours or more after the interruption.
Toxin Vulnerability: -2 vs poison, -3 vs alcohol
+1 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects, +2 vs enchantment spells and effects.
Search checks when passsing doors as per elves.
+2 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks
+2 racial bonus on Appraise and Knowledge (History) checks - the Dwelf has access to two cultures with strong historical bents.
(Dwarven waraxe and Urugosh as Martial, Longsword and Rapier free if you think it's still underpowered)

MrSeth
2006-07-20, 04:04 PM
" *+2 con, -2 str. Dwelves are hardy, but their musculature isn't as efficient as it should be."
It's a nice idea, but I think it's too nasty - the Str penalty is enough to turn a lot of people off the smaller races, plus it contradicts with the lack of encumbrance idea below. I'd stick with the sum of the two - bonus to dex, penalty to charisma, or just no change.

"*Base speed: 30 feet. Dwelfs can maintain their speed when wearing medium armor or heavy armor and a light load."
This, to me, makes little sense. Dwarves maintain their speed because of their build and distribution - the same reason why they're slow. You've just created a dwarf subrace that's going to go faster than a human when both are armoured. I'd say 30' and leave it at that.

"*Dwelfs are entitled to a search check (as Elves) when passing a hidden door."
Good one, also fits the stonecunning bonus.

"*+2 on Balance, Move Silently, and Tumble checks. Dwelves are naturally graceful."
At this point, I wonder if we've got some sort of Medium-sized halfling, what with the loss of strength bonus. It seems a poor mimic of the elven dex bonus - and a little incongruous with the concept.

"*Darkvision (40 feet), Low Light Vision"
Isn't 30' the normal rounding point?

"*Insomnia:"
The Dwelf slows the party down. This is a big pain (different to a disadvantage in that it affects the party) - I'd reduce it to a normal resting pattern, but a 4-hour penalty to rolls if the sleep is interrupted.

"Toxin problems: Dwelves take a -2 penalty on Fortitude saves against any sort of poison, and a -3 against the effects of alcohol in particular."
Ingenious.

"*Favored class: Cleric."
I like this. To those who fear overpowered Clerics, remember this only helps multiclass characters.

Hm.
The way I'd do it would be:

No ability score change.
Medium, 30'.
Humanoid with both subtypes.
Favoured class: Cleric
Darkvision (30'), Lowlight vision.
Insomnia: If a Dwelf's rest is interrupted, they take a -1 penalty to all rolls for the four hours after they finish resting, unless they rest for eight hours or more after the interruption.
Toxin Vulnerability: -2 vs poison, -3 vs alcohol
+1 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects, +2 vs enchantment spells and effects.
Search checks when passsing doors as per elves.
+2 racial bonus on Search and Spot checks
+2 racial bonus on Appraise and Knowledge (History) checks - the Dwelf has access to two cultures with strong historical bents.
(Dwarven waraxe and Urugosh as Martial, Longsword and Rapier free if you think it's still underpowered)


Hmmm~ Okay, addressing this one point by point...

*Darkvision: Yeah, you're right on that one. Changed it.
*Insomnia: Probably a good idea... your idea is definitely simpler.
*STR penalty: Keeping it. The Charisma bonus doesn't really work with the concept... I'm trying to make a relatively well-adjusted crossbreed race, without the fuming with generic ambivalence.
*Axing the enhanced load. You're right again, swapping it out for the appraise/history bonus.
*Regarding the DEX-skill bonuses... Halflings have them on STR based skills, mostly, to represent the fact that they're still athletic despite their smaller size. Dwelfs have the DEX bonuses to represent the fact that they're somewhat more graceful than other medium-races, but still not as much as the Elves they came from.



When do we get to see a writeup for Dworcs or Dwomes (Gnorfs?)? ;D

Stoutgnomes, the hybrid of Gnome and Dwarf, are already out there in a similar thread I made a few days ago.
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=gaming;action=display;num=1153285896

As long as we never reach Elforc (which is either a laymans mishmash of elf and orc, or spanish for "The Fork")

Quarterorcs (half Half-orc, half Half-elf) are here...
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=gaming;action=display;num=1149957490 ;start=0#5

Outlanders (Orc-elf hybrids, really xenophobic and paranoid) are here.
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=gaming;action=display;num=1149957490 ;start=15#28