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SilveryCord
2006-08-26, 08:51 PM
The Disciple of Everything
[Thanks Gorbash, sorry T_T]

Some learn grand psionic powers, and have the sharpest minds of all. Others study endlessly, trying to find a perfect arcane spell. Yet others pray for spells that they will bring about world peace, or world destruction, for that matter. But still others try and do all of those things, becoming paragons of every kind of power. These are the Disciples of Everything.

Hit Die
d4.

Requirements
To qualify to become a Disciple of Everything, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Skills
Knowledge (arcana) 23 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 23 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 23 ranks.

Spells
Able to cast 3rd-level divine spells, 3rd-level arcane spells, and manifest 4th-level psionic powers.

Class Skills
The Disciple of Everything's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Con), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (int), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at Each Level
2 + Int modifier

Class Features
All the following are features of the Disciple of Everything class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Disciples of Everything gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Magic and Psionics
The Disciple of Everything gains new spells per day and power points per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class, any one divine spellcasting class, and any manifesting class he belonged to previously. He does not gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of Disciple of Everything to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class, divine spellcasting class, and manifesting class the character has, then determines spells per day, power points per day, and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class, divine spellcasting class, or manifesting class before he became a Disciple of Everything, he must decide to which class he adds each level of Disciple of Everything for the purposes of determining spells per day and power points per day.

Incredible Weakness
When a Disciple of Everything enters an antimagic field, or a field of Apopsi static, he takes 2d8+2 Con damage. He does not take any more damage for 3 hours, but is then subject to additional damage if he enters or is within an antimagic field or an Apopsi field.

Magical Association
A Disciple of Everything's powers float almost freely in a very small, invisible halo around his body. A Mage's Disjunction seperates this halo from him, and causes him to be unable to use arcane or divine magic for the rest of the day. Also, Detect Magic or any other similar ability recognizes this immediately.

Brain Freeze
A Disciple of Everything's mind is so constantly overworked that mind-affecting psionics can easily tip his mental balance. He takes a -4 penalty when he rolls any Will Save against a psionic power that is Mind-Affecting.

Powerful Knowledge
At 2nd level, a Disciple of Everything gains the ability to know information regarding topics related to arcana, religion, and psionics. The Disciple of Everything adds his level and intelligence modifier, and any ranks in an applicable knowledge skill to the Powerful Knowledge check, which functions otherwise exactly like a bardic knowledge check.

Calling of God
Disciples of Everything are so incredibly powerful that their deity pays special attention to them. At 4th level, a Disciple of Everything may exchange a divine spell slot to spontaneously cast an arcane spell 2 or more levels lower.

Sacrifice of Power
At 4th level, a Disciple of Everything may exchange an arcane spell slot to spontaneously cast a divine spell 2 or more levels lower.

Incredible Power
At level 6, a Disciple of Everything gets the Epic Spellcasting feat and the Epic Manifestation feat as bonus feats. In addition, a Disciple of Everything can use Psionic seeds with other spell seeds. (The only point of this is so that the final DC is lower.) A Disciple of Everything may choose whether he'd like to use Spellcraft or Psicraft for an Epic Spell or power.

View of the Universe
At level 8, once per day, a Disciple of Everything may select a square in his line of sight. Calculate his new line of sight from this point, but not for the purpose of aiming a linear attack, such as with a bow or sling.

BAB, Fort, Ref, and Will Save:
As Mystic Theurge.

Gralamin
2006-08-26, 09:08 PM
1. Wrong forum
Too strong even for epic
I can see a level 20 + whatever the human paragon class gets the permeant skill at, entering this class.

meaning by level 35, you are more powerful then a god, as gods do not know everything.

Gyrfalcon
2006-08-26, 11:12 PM
Agreed, especially giving (though the difference between characters and gods is thin at epic levels) someone four salient divine abilities.

Otherwise, I have to say that if you were playing a non-epic campaign from 1st level, this character is going to suck badly through most of it. *Dissertions have been given on the mystic theurge and why it's not that good, but this class is splitting itself three ways, and is only a 5th-7th level caster as a wizard, cleric or psion until they hit epic levels.

To expand: This class is interesting in that it's too powerful once you get to epic levels, but very weak up to the point you can take this. Thus, I don't see anyone trying to get to it in a game that starts pre-epic, but more then willing to take it if they're starting in an epic game.

anime713
2006-08-27, 12:54 AM
Omniscient... that's a word I don't like. It's basically, "you win the game." You know the best possible outcome in every situation, and how to achieve it. You are immune from surprise attacks ("I know there are 3 enemies behind that door. One is a ...") you are for all intents and urposes invulnerable (enemies can't hit you, because you know when and where they are going to strike.)

I'd much rather have omnipotence, anyway. Then Icould do cool stuff, like making rocks so heavy that even I couldn't lift them.

SilveryCord
2006-08-27, 09:50 AM
Blech, so sorry. I was very tired when I wrote this, and not only did I forget which forum I was supposed to put it in, I realized I messed up a lot of parts of it.

But anyone who casts arcane and divine magic and manifests psionics is awesome in my book.

martyboy74
2006-08-27, 10:35 AM
For the prerequisites, why does it require 3rd level arcane and divine spells, but 4th level powers?

Steward
2006-08-27, 12:25 PM
For the prerequisites, why does it require 3rd level arcane and divine spells, but 4th level powers?

Because 333 is a 666/2, and SilveryCord doesn't want to infest us with demons and stuff.

I'm glad you got rid of the salient divine abilities.

SilveryCord
2006-08-27, 01:36 PM
Psionic Devotee: Well, actually, there is a good reason for this. I didn't want the spellcasting side of the class to overpower psionics. While there are two flavors of magic, arcane and divine, there is only one psionic. So, psionics need a little edge to keep things balanced. Also, It fits this class into being 'quasi-epic'.

Think about the levels you need to get 3 arcane, 3 divine, and 4 psionic. 6 Wiz/Sorc, 6 Druid/Cler, 8 Manifesting Class. What's that add up to? 20.
Advancing in *three* kinds of 'mystic power' at once is very powerful. I mean, the Mystic Theurge is already pretty powerful at high levels.

King Stewart: I don't even know what I was thinking when I put the salient divine abilities down... O.o

martyboy74
2006-08-27, 01:41 PM
Psionic Devotee: Well, actually, there is a good reason for this. I didn't want the spellcasting side of the class to overpower psionics. While there are two flavors of magic, arcane and divine, there is only one psionic. So, psionics need a little edge to keep things balanced. Also, It fits this class into being 'quasi-epic'.

Think about the levels you need to get 3 arcane, 3 divine, and 4 psionic. 6 Wiz/Sorc, 6 Druid/Cler, 8 Manifesting Class. What's that add up to? 20.
Advancing in *three* kinds of 'mystic power' at once is very powerful. I mean, the Mystic Theurge is already pretty powerful at high levels.
Alright, that explanation makes sense. I just want to point out, that even going in straight classes entirely, (which would be incredibly dumb), you'd only need to be wizard 5/ cleric 5/ psion 7. That's only 17 levels. :-/

SilveryCord
2006-08-27, 01:45 PM
d'oh >_<
That's still not too bad. Most people will probably dip into something else anyway, as they're going to be varied enough that it doesn't matter just adding one or two more levels in another class.

3 levels of rogue anyone? :)

Emperor Tippy
2006-08-27, 01:49 PM
This class seems a bit much (at higher levels).

The Best way to qualify is
Cleric 3
Wizard 3
Psion 3
Mystic Theuge 2
Cerebremancer 4

That gives you spells/powers as a level 5 Cleric, a Level 9 Wizard, and a Level 7 Psion. Your actual level is level 15.

So at level 20 (assuming you meet the skill requirments at level 15) you would cast spells/powers as a level 12 Cleric, a level 14 Wizard, and a level 14 Psion.

Or level 7 powers, level 7 arcane spells, and level 6 divine spells.

Level 22 gives you 8,8,7 for spells/powers and at level 24 you can manifest 9th level powers, cast 9th level arcane spells, and 8th level divine spells. Level 26 is the earliest you can get 9/9/9. This actually requires 11 levels of The Disciple of Everything Class.

If you drop the requirment to 3rd level powers then you can qualify at level 13 with spells/powers as a level 5 Cleric, level 5 Psion, level 7 Wizard.

This means at level 20 you can manifest 8th level powers, cast 8th level divine spells, and 9th level arcane spells. And at level 22 you get 9/9/9 (with 12 Disciple of Everything levels).


To take this class basically costs you 5 Psion levels, 5 Cleric levels, and 3 wizard levels. (a pure wizard will be 3 levels higher than you, a pure cleric will be 5 levels above you and a pure psion will be 5 levels above you.)

I would count this a fair trade and if I was creating a character at level 20 then I would most definatly take the Disiple of Everything. It just keeps getting more and more overpowered.

At level 30 you cast divine spells as a level 25 cleric, you manifest powers as a level 25 psion, and you cast arcane spells as a level 27 wizard. Epic arcane, Epic divince, epic psionics.




Wizard ends up the most powerful no matter what happens. And the levels are 5/5/7 not 6/6/8.

SilveryCord
2006-08-27, 02:07 PM
Okay.
You guys forgot something really important.
Skills.
To get into the class, you have to be at least level 20.

Emperor Tippy
2006-08-27, 02:41 PM
You forgot feats. And all of the numerous other ways to get skill boosts.

At level 15 (minimum level) your max skill rank is 18. You need to pick up 5 skill ranks in 3 different knowledge skills. This is doable with feats at level 15.

Or just buy 3 scrolls of wish and use them. "I wish for a +5 inhearent bonus to my Knowledge: XXXX skill ranks".

That should be within wishes power as it can provide a +1 to an attribute, and attributes are worth at least 5 times as much as skills.

Feats are more RAW but those would be valid wishes.
and to make them IC just say "I wish for my inhearent Knowledge of psionics to be increased by as much as this spell can without any adverse side effects."

martyboy74
2006-08-27, 03:18 PM
You forgot feats. And all of the numerous other ways to get skill boosts.

At level 15 (minimum level) your max skill rank is 18. You need to pick up 5 skill ranks in 3 different knowledge skills. This is doable with feats at level 15.

Or just buy 3 scrolls of wish and use them. "I wish for a +5 inhearent bonus to my Knowledge: XXXX skill ranks".

That should be within wishes power as it can provide a +1 to an attribute, and attributes are worth at least 5 times as much as skills.

Feats are more RAW but those would be valid wishes.
and to make them IC just say "I wish for my inhearent Knowledge of psionics to be increased by as much as this spell can without any adverse side effects."
It says ranks, nothing else.

Umbral_Arcanist
2006-08-27, 03:24 PM
You forgot feats. And all of the numerous other ways to get skill boosts.

At level 15 (minimum level) your max skill rank is 18. You need to pick up 5 skill ranks in 3 different knowledge skills. This is doable with feats at level 15.

Or just buy 3 scrolls of wish and use them. "I wish for a +5 inhearent bonus to my Knowledge: XXXX skill ranks".

That should be within wishes power as it can provide a +1 to an attribute, and attributes are worth at least 5 times as much as skills.

Feats are more RAW but those would be valid wishes.
and to make them IC just say "I wish for my inhearent Knowledge of psionics to be increased by as much as this spell can without any adverse side effects."


What feats? i've never heard of any that give actual ranks, only bonuses.

SilveryCord
2006-08-27, 03:30 PM
There is one feat that gives you 5 skill points, but you still have to follow the max+3 rule.

So would y'all consider this balanced or not?

Eighth_Seraph
2006-08-27, 05:49 PM
In a word: No. It's something I would only allow in a campaign where the characters are taking on hoards of majorly beefed demons, like in the after-effects of an apocalyptic campaign that they previously failed, thus giving a need to have something capable of destroying the apocalypse. 'Cause that's how powerful this class would become.

SilveryCord
2006-08-27, 06:39 PM
Well, now I've severly damaged the class's overpowered-ness.

Now whoever's playing this needs at least 19 Con, or they're in danger of dropping dead any minute.
And psionic mind-affecting powers do quite a bit more.

Eighth_Seraph
2006-08-27, 06:48 PM
Alright, that's something that the disciple will have to watch for, as despite all his vaunted arcane, divine, and psionic power; he still has one irredeemable weakness... Ooh. I'm sounding dramatic for some reason.

Anyway, that's definitely a good thing, as an epic disciple will likely be fighting very powerful foes with barely-less-than-liberal access to anti-magic fields. That or a beholder will cause put thedisciple in a tight spot. A simple, yet supremely effective balancing technique. Well done.

PS: I'm approaching dwarf status...watch your backs, titans!

SilveryCord
2006-08-27, 06:59 PM
Hehe, so now you have to get perfect rolls to play a decent character. Imagine a Sorceror/Cleric/Psion :)

"I have to get 18 Cha! No wait, 18 Wis! No wait, 18 Int! No... wait... 18 Con!"

Actually, now that I think about it, that really levels the playing field. If you can't cast spells because you had to put your good stat into Con, well :)

Hario
2006-08-30, 02:27 AM
Sorcerer/Wilder/Favored soul (or shugenja)

you need just a little wisdom for the favored soul spells... but still pack a punch with little change in the abilities...

I can see uber brokeness at epic when you mix, thurge classes with this, you can make 6 full progression spellcasting classes by lvl 40 I think, its late and I might be off...

Jack_Simth
2006-08-30, 02:50 AM
Sorcerer/Wilder/Favored soul (or shugenja)

you need just a little wisdom for the favored soul spells... but still pack a punch with little change in the abilities...

I can see uber brokeness at epic when you mix, thurge classes with this, you can make 6 full progression spellcasting classes by lvl 40 I think, its late and I might be off...


Well, with "standard" MT-esque classes, you'll need three levels in each of the two "base" classes, and they run for 10 levels.

This one specifically increases three different casting-type classes (one Psionic, one Arcane, one Divine).

Assuming you have a MT-esque class for each given combo (Arcane-Divine, Arcane-Psionic, Divine-Psionic), at level 39, you could have: 3 levels in Wizard, 3 levels in Psion, 3 levels in Cleric; ten levels in each of the three MT-esque classes leaves you casting as a level 23 Cleric, Wizard, and Psion. Which, at level 39.... leaves you a bit behind, especially considering the lack of bonus Epic feats. For a caster level of 17 in each, you need seven levels of each of the three PrC's you dug up - putting you at level 30.

SilveryCord
2006-08-30, 06:31 PM
I just love how it's so fragile, and how you can be so close to filling the requirements, and yet, so far.