PDA

View Full Version : "Return to Nature": The World's Smallest Giant, Warlocks Rejoice.



Khatoblepas
2009-04-10, 08:06 PM
So, we have a Primordial Half-Giant Warlock wandering around Eberron, needing a boost and wanting ultimate warlock power. I came across Return to Nature when I was looking up Artificer infusions, and it seemed like it could give Warlocks exactly what they need.

Small +1 / +2 Dex
Tiny +2 / +4 Dex
Diminuative +4 / +6 Dex
Fine +8 / +8 Dex




Duration: Instantaneous

....Giants subjected to this spell become smaller, as
though affected by a reduce person spell (see page 269 of
the Player’s Handbook). A successful Fortitude save negates
this effect....

Now, you may think that it wouldn't stack if it is cast more than once:



Instantaneous Effects

Two or more spells with instantaneous durations work cumulatively when they affect the same targe

The spell effect has effectively ended, so Return to Nature works again - because the Giant is now Small naturally, not because it's under any spell. The reduce person effect can't be dispelled.

If you go down to Fine size, you gain:
+ 8 AC/to Hit
+ 16 to hide.
+ 8 Dex
- 8 Str

Invisibility will give you a +40 without any hide ranks (taking into account the extra dex). You have a +12 to hit with your EB, +12 AC without armor, and noone can ever find you, ever. Fancy being a Pixie but without being a lame fairy and with Powerful Build? Now's your chance. Enjoy your new power. The power of being a Smurf. You can even do this yourself at level 12. Hellfire Smurf go!

Is this at all kosher?

Chronos
2009-04-10, 09:48 PM
Is this at all kosher?It shouldn't be, but none of the reasons why it wouldn't be seem to apply. More importantly, though, it's absolutely hilarious.

Salt_Crow
2009-04-10, 10:01 PM
I'm thinking RAI was that it'd have a separate duration for dwarfing the giant. However, errata doesn't say anything and so it'd be golden if you could find a 13th-level or higher gatekeeper to cast it for you :) Or, you could create a scroll yourself if you're a warlock...

This is so friggin' hilarious :smallbiggrin:


p.s. If you're an arcane caster though, you'll get 1d4 negative level per casting :(

Calinero
2009-04-10, 10:23 PM
I can already imagine the pint-sized giant terror.

Salt_Crow
2009-04-10, 10:47 PM
"Well sir, I couldn't help but notice what a fine giant you had there" XD

Sorry, had to do it.

BobVosh
2009-04-10, 11:42 PM
"Well sir, I couldn't help but notice what a fine giant you had there" XD

Sorry, had to do it.

I hope you are understanding as we need to stab you. Nothing personal.

lsfreak
2009-04-10, 11:50 PM
"Well sir, I couldn't help but notice what a fine giant you had there" XD

Even better is when the needle-wide beam of purple light it shoots at you for making such a horrible pun deals 7d6 damage and a negative level :smallwink:

streakster
2009-04-10, 11:51 PM
So this is literally the world's smallest giant?

Nice.

Deth Muncher
2009-04-10, 11:55 PM
So this is literally the world's smallest giant?

Nice.

I feel the urge to quote The Phantom Tollbooth, but can't.

Khatoblepas
2009-04-11, 06:57 AM
p.s. If you're an arcane caster though, you'll get 1d4 negative level per casting :(

That's only if you're a Humanoid arcane spellcaster. ;)

JeminiZero
2009-04-11, 09:38 AM
Even better is when the needle-wide beam of purple light it shoots at you for making such a horrible pun deals 7d6 damage and a negative level :smallwink:

Or even better, mutters a word, and changes you into a Chicken.

I wonder how it would interact with Crawling Eye and Disembodied hand. By RAW, the hand is dimunitive, and the eye is fine regardless of your base size, so the moment you detach your eye, it becomes as big as you, and your hand becomes 1 size category larger. :smallbiggrin:

Also, you can make use of your enhanced Hide with Nightmares made Real, or Darkness + Blend into Shadows that grant you HiPS.

Chronos
2009-04-11, 11:16 AM
Also, you can make use of your enhanced Hide with Nightmares made Real, or Darkness + Blend into Shadows that grant you HiPS.As someone pointed out in another thread, when you're that small, you don't need HiPS: Even the grass will give you concealment.

Of course, everyone else would also have concealment from you due to the grass, but that's not a problem: Fell Flight up five feet, make your attack (or full attack, with Eldritch Glaive, since you only moved 5 feet), then fall as a free action to land back in the grass (and take no damage, since the fall is so short).

daggaz
2009-11-04, 11:41 AM
Zomg.. its a killer grasshopper! :smalltongue:

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-11-04, 12:06 PM
So you are saying They Might Be Giants? :smallbiggrin:

Fayd
2009-11-04, 12:11 PM
Defend Your Shins!

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-04, 12:18 PM
What's the easiest (least LA) way to get this done?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-11-04, 12:29 PM
What's the easiest (least LA) way to get this done?

Half-Giant... LA +1.

Akal Saris
2009-11-04, 03:39 PM
You've created Tiny from DoTA in reverse!

Seriously though, very clever find!

Eldan
2009-11-04, 03:44 PM
Or even better, mutters a word, and changes you into a Chicken.

I wonder how it would interact with Crawling Eye and Disembodied hand. By RAW, the hand is dimunitive, and the eye is fine regardless of your base size, so the moment you detach your eye, it becomes as big as you, and your hand becomes 1 size category larger. :smallbiggrin:



Which, of course, means you can ride your own hand. Cavalry away!

Fax Celestis
2009-11-04, 04:15 PM
As a DM, I would rule that you stop at Medium size, because of this:


Giant Type
A giant is a humanoid-shaped creature of great strength, usually of at least Large size.
Features
A giant has the following features.
* 8-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
* Good Fortitude saves.
* Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits
A giant possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
* Low-light vision.
* Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as any natural weapons.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Giants not described as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Giants are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Giants eat, sleep, and breathe.

So as soon as he hits medium, he's not a Giant anymore--now he's a Humanoid, and is an invalid target for the shrinking effect.

Still, that's a DM ruling (or RAMS) and not RAW or even RAI.

The Glyphstone
2009-11-04, 04:19 PM
This entire idea to begin with is based off the Rule of Funny anyways.:smallsmile:

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-11-04, 04:19 PM
Both half-giants, and half-minotaurs from small races, are medium sized though. A ruling is a ruling, but there is plenty of room for grumbling.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-04, 04:21 PM
As a DM, I would rule that you stop at Medium size, because of this:



So as soon as he hits medium, he's not a Giant anymore--now he's a Humanoid, and is an invalid target for the shrinking effect.

Still, that's a DM ruling (or RAMS) and not RAW or even RAI.Usually/=always.

Fax Celestis
2009-11-04, 04:44 PM
Both half-giants, and half-minotaurs from small races, are medium sized though. A ruling is a ruling, but there is plenty of room for grumbling.

Half-Minotaurs shouldn't be Giants as their base race, the minotaur (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/minotaur.htm), is a Monstrous Humanoid. That template has so much wrong with it to begin with it's hardly worth noting.

Half-Giants are, for all intents and purposes, Large size due to Powerful Build and are a special case anyway.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-11-04, 04:45 PM
Half-Minotaurs shouldn't be Giants as their base race, the minotaur (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/minotaur.htm), is a Monstrous Humanoid. That template has so much wrong with it to begin with it's hardly worth noting.

Half-Giants are, for all intents and purposes, Large size due to Powerful Build and are a special case anyway.Again, "usually of at least large size" means there are ones that are smaller than large.

Fax Celestis
2009-11-04, 04:46 PM
Usually/=always.
Yeah, I know, especially in D&D. Still, in an effort to keep things from being wtf and to keep from having extra extra double-miniature storm giants running around (now in size Tiny!), that's the ruling I'd make. Take it or leave it.