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Goshen
2009-04-13, 08:59 AM
My guess is that Sizemore has been all over the Magic Island trying to learn everything he can about all the other magics. While he does not appear to be competent in anything outside of dirtamancy (where he rocks) he does know a lot about the other schools of magic. That was definitely valuable to Parson, especially early on.

Imgran
2009-04-13, 09:41 AM
While he does not appear to be competent in anything outside of dirtamancy (where he rocks)

booooooooooooooooooo

memoryhole
2009-04-13, 10:35 AM
Maybe the casters only want everyone to believe that only spellcasters can come through the portals. Maybe it's a lie that's been repeated over and over in order to protect the Magic Kingdom, and that the other casters have sworn to uphold (by killing anyone who attempts to get through the portal). The Hippiemancer might have to lie to save Parson's life, which she may do both out of a sense of wanting to preserve life and also (perhaps) out of a sense of duty to a fellow who doesn't really belong in Erfworld.

Goshen
2009-04-13, 10:42 AM
booooooooooooooooooo:smallbiggrin:

On a more serious note, the deaths of Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson (god/s bless their souls) shows that the roleplayer game community is coming full circle. We have lots of gamers around the age of fifty (like me) from the early days, and younger, but very few in their sixties and seventies like Gygax and Arneson were (RIP). I guess in twenty years, we will have significant numbers in all age groups.

Sigh. Death sucks, but it's good to see young people still getting into role gaming.

Welf
2009-04-13, 11:18 AM
Maybe the casters only want everyone to believe that only spellcasters can come through the portals. Maybe it's a lie that's been repeated over and over in order to protect the Magic Kingdom, and that the other casters have sworn to uphold (by killing anyone who attempts to get through the portal). The Hippiemancer might have to lie to save Parson's life, which she may do both out of a sense of wanting to preserve life and also (perhaps) out of a sense of duty to a fellow who doesn't really belong in Erfworld.

Well, they are casters. They simply can develop a spell that autokills every non caster. Every caster can recognize the type of an unit, so it shouldn't be a problem to create a spell-trap that only is activated by non-casters. And if it's a problem, well the magic kingdom is the place to solve that problem. The guys who made an search&summon spell that can find the perfect warlord anywhere in the universe should be able to do that.
or, more simpler, develop a portalspell that is only usable for casters.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-13, 11:34 AM
For #3 from the left, another option I don't think has been mentioned is David Copperfield.

Hmm... maybe. His hair (http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/10/23/davidcopperfield_narrowweb__300x316,0.jpg) is a bit poofier, but the hairstyle is close.

...I guess the Stage Magician is just in a bad position for identification purposes. We wouldn't have gotten Carl Sagan except that he faced us directly, later.

Maybe we'll get a better shot in the next couple of pages.

Martok
2009-04-13, 11:44 AM
Well, this just got weird(er). :smallconfused:

DevilDan
2009-04-13, 12:54 PM
My question is how did all those casters manage to get around the portal so quickly? I mean, it wasn't that long between the trimancer going through and Parson following.

I'd say that Portal Park is a very busy place, and the appearance of linked casters followed by an unscannable/unlabeled giant, odd-looking unit with a helm and sword would quickly attract a crowd. Plus, we see the scene in the middle of Parson defending himself, so the standoff might have been going on for a few minutes already.

The Magic Kingdom: how it was created would depend on what was there originally, i.e. what did the Titans do to it. Even if it wasn't originally a caster conclave, it's not hard to guess that caster's could talk to each other, feel the need for a university *** transportation center *** agora.

Rands could just be a currency based on magical labor: casters use it to pay each other. It could have initially been based on "one hour's work," for example, but the relatively caster/spell S&D would affect move it away from that as would plain negotiations.

The tuxedo magician is likely based on generic stage illusionists or mentalists. (Too bad they didn't add a cape or top hat, as I'd love to see Mandrake the Magician make an appearance). To use three characters from the Harry Potter universe is the sort of trendiness or laziness that I would expect from the writer. There's no question in my mind about Jeannie or Dr. Fate.


If there are only one million rands in the whole world and they can only be traded, not created or destroyed, that would make 50 rands quite an attractive offer.
Only 8 rands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html) for magic training, too.

She's a hippymancer, so she'd ask little for a single interrupted session. (Her staff appears to be a peace symbol with wings.)

Snakes are often associated with magic and hidden knowledge in myth and folklore and not just with medicine or with the garden of Eden.

Loungeboy
2009-04-13, 02:02 PM
Total Noob posting! Glad to see lots of fans! Everything I'll post actually does have to do with the recent page with Spock and Janis.

1. If Parson is a summoned being (rules not yet known to us), then maybe he lives because Stanley (or Wanda, the caster) are alive. I always thought he couldn't see stats because he IS a spell.

2. Janis seems to know Parson, or at least of him. Calling him a hippiemancer seems like a ruse with the "guard him anyway", but who would harm a hippie? (Except Cartman). This means that we have to look at what Sizemore was learning from Janis early on, and the relation. Wanda bought the "summon perfect warlord" spell, and let Sizemore TOUCH it. He asks what kind of magic is it, Fate? She says "Yours. Mine. Ours.". What did Sizemore do? The world is a big conglomeration of Parson's real-to-erf interpretations. If he doesn't eat marbits, do they exist? Maybe Parson does control fate. Can he end war if he thinks it's possible?

3. Parson never actually kills directly....
EDIT - Glome is correct in the next post, Parson does indeed 'hack' the head off the weiner-rammer. I missed the detail, and given what the very first sentence of the entire Erfworld comic is, I should be more careful.

4. I will post my thoughts about Charlie elsewhere, but I don't think he or the archons will show up in portal park because I'm not sure he has a body. I think, therefore...

Glome
2009-04-13, 03:08 PM
2. Janis seems to know Parson, or at least of him. Calling him a hippiemancer seems like a ruse with the "guard him anyway", but who would harm a hippie? (Except Cartman).


I'm pretty sure the guard is there to protect the inhabitants of the magic kingdom from a giant in battle gear with unknown stats who may be a little pissed that he was knocked unconscious by Leonard Nimoy. Being a hippiemancer doesn't preclude Parson from killing people, as we well saw in the battle of Gobwin Knob. In fact given the militaristic nature of Erfworld, even peace and hippiemancing is probably considered a weapon of war.


3. Parson never actually kills directly, only through orders. Maggie and Sizemore protect him. I disagree with the philisophical aspect, but maybe the technical distinction will matter later.

He did kill the wiener-rammer pretty directly. Although the fact that Parson was a warlord who fought thousands of battle but who didn't kill anything larger than a spider before being summoned might be why Erfworld made him a hippiemancer when the spell was cast.

ishnar
2009-04-13, 03:23 PM
I am kinda wondering when the "Battle of Gobwin Knob" chapter will officially end. I guess we still need Stanely to see the city in ruins.

When Stanley enters Efdup the story will have come full circle. So probably next page is the end of book 1.



Rands could just be a currency based on magical labor: casters use it to pay each other. It could have initially been based on "one hour's work," for example, but the relatively caster/spell S&D would affect move it away from that as would plain negotiations.

This doesn't match with Sizemore paying 20 rands when he didn't expect to see Janis ever again (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html). So Rand can't be a unit of credit currency.




3. Parson never actually kills directly, only through orders. Maggie and Sizemore protect him. I disagree with the philisophical aspect, but maybe the technical distinction will matter later.



Parson has killed directly. Quern (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0146.html)

chefsotero
2009-04-13, 03:29 PM
And why is Spock/Nimoy kinda 2D in panel 6? Looks to me like he is either an ilusion or an effect. Could Janis had Cast him? She was guiding him in the beginning....


And on my thinkmancers dream team I would love to see Cardini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardini) and Dr. Feynman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman), maybe caring an magical bongo :smallcool:

Feirgon
2009-04-13, 03:35 PM
This is my two cents. Because I have nothing better to do than through pennies at the forums...

I really like the idea that all references in Erfworld are from the 20th century or sooner. Things that have come from television, movies, and internet seem to be the most common references though high profile individuals (KISS, Marlon Brando, Margaret Thatcher, Elvis, Michael Jackson) have also been included.

So where am I going with this? All mages in todays comic are references to 20th century people or characters. As for arguing exactly who they are, I will leave that up to ya'll. But I will say that Gandalf without a staff is about as likely as referencing two characters from the same mythos.

As for the Rand reference, I kinda like them all. I wouldn't be surprised if the authors thought of one of the references and liked it. Then they realized how many references it actually fit. But I imagine that you are all trying to figure out the original references which I think any of us would be hard pressed to do.

Architect
2009-04-13, 03:42 PM
Bingo. Ayn Rand. I thought most everyone thought of her regarding the Rand as a form of currency. In Atlas Shrugged, governments decide to steal or take away the enterprises and inventions of the brightest and most talented... so the brightest and talented hide away from the world in a refuge. The world starts going to hell and they wait for the time in which the world will be ready for them to return.

Atlas was a Titan, BTW.

greywords
2009-04-13, 03:43 PM
Another thought on the "but guard him anyway" is that Parson may really be a hippiemancer. However, the "ruthlessness" bestowed upon him by the sword et.al. may overcome his natural inclinations and so he's now a danger to others (and himself) so needs to be watched until they can unwind that. We never saw him kill directly until he had the whole ruthlessness thing, right?

EDIT: Parson's klog seems to back this up- he doesn't quite understand why he doesn't feel horrible. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0129.html

archon_huskie
2009-04-13, 03:49 PM
When did Orko?
When did Carl Sagan?
When did Jeannie?

Orko is using a staff. His action figure comes with one.
Carl Sagan is using a scientific instrument that resembles a wand.
Jeannie is using her bottle. look at its shape.

Mystyco
2009-04-13, 03:53 PM
Parson an hippiemancer? it's less likely than you think.

He'd fit better in Clevermancy IMHO

keybounce
2009-04-13, 05:28 PM
And why is Spock/Nimoy kinda 2D in panel 6?

Because he's a flat, 2-dimensional character?

"That is not logical. Logical. Lo-lo-lo-logical. (Gaah, I feel like a rap song or something).

Seriously, Spock shows no real character growth before being introduced to poker. "In chess, when one is outmaneuvered, checkmate". "Not chess, poker".

DevilDan
2009-04-13, 05:44 PM
This doesn't match with Sizemore paying 20 rands when he didn't expect to see Janis ever again (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html). So Rand can't be a unit of credit currency.

I don't suggest that there is no such physical currency as a Rand, merely that it might be based on magical labor as most modern currencies were backed by precious metals.

chefsotero
2009-04-13, 06:00 PM
Because he's a flat, 2-dimensional character?

"That is not logical. Logical. Lo-lo-lo-logical. (Gaah, I feel like a rap song or something).

Seriously, Spock shows no real character growth before being introduced to poker. "In chess, when one is outmaneuvered, checkmate". "Not chess, poker".

Well but then why he is only 2D after he is done with the FSNP?

U may be right but i wouldn't bet my money on this theory

EDIT: Jamie is a very fine artist and I don't belive panel 6 is a booper. My money is on the 2D effect is intentional, now what intention.....

Goshen
2009-04-13, 07:06 PM
Because he's a flat, 2-dimensional character?

"That is not logical. Logical. Lo-lo-lo-logical. (Gaah, I feel like a rap song or something).

Seriously, Spock shows no real character growth before being introduced to poker. "In chess, when one is outmaneuvered, checkmate". "Not chess, poker".
Spock Rap! :smalltongue: Nimoy came close in this song (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3kqg4_leonard-nimoys-highly-illogical_fun) from his album. The video is another sillyness somebody else created much later.

chefsotero
2009-04-13, 07:20 PM
Spock Rap! :smalltongue: Nimoy came close in this song (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3kqg4_leonard-nimoys-highly-illogical_fun) from his album. The video is another sillyness somebody else created much later.

LOL

And I tought that the Ballad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04) was the worst. May the Titans bless the internet

BillyJimBoBob
2009-04-13, 08:12 PM
As for the Spock pinch, I'm not exactly sure what's going on. We clearly see "Spock" attempting, with no effect. And Spock is clearly surprised in the fifth pannel.Heh, before I saw Parson pitch over in panel 7 I took panel 6 to be Parson saying "Uh, you're violating my personal space, dude", with the Spock caster all wrapped about him for 4 panels...

But yeah. Curiouser and curiouser.

Goshen
2009-04-13, 09:00 PM
And I tought that the Ballad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04) was the worst. May the Titans bless the internetI actually bought Shatner's album, which is even worse then Nimoy's, because I thought it was cool. :smalleek: I was 13 at the time and had been watching star trek since I was six. It's a good thing I have no shame.

As for the Spock pinch, I'm not exactly sure what's going on. We clearly see "Spock" attempting, with no effect. And Spock is clearly surprised in the fifth pannel. Was he expecting it to work quicker? I think so. That, in turn, makes me think Parson is faking! :smallwink: He may have thought, "They have me surrounded with superior firepower. I'd better fall for this non-violent attack, before they do something serious."

chefsotero
2009-04-13, 09:48 PM
I actually bought Shatner's album, which is even worse then Nimoy's, because I thought it was cool. :smalleek: I was 13 at the time and had been watching star trek since I was six. It's a good thing I have no shame.

Hail to the geek, when I was 13 my mom ofered me either a puppy or a model of the enterprise.... I still have my NCC 1701


I think so. That, in turn, makes me think Parson is faking! :smallwink: He may have thought, "They have me surrounded with superior firepower. I'd better fall for this non-violent attack, before they do something serious."

I also think the FSNP didn't work but I think janis did something, making someone pass out in bliss sound quite like hipiemancy to me, but parson faking does make sense

Quanton
2009-04-13, 09:58 PM
In my last post on "rands", I just posted a link, but here it is spelled out a bit more:

Rand Holmes was apparently a cartoonist who published a number of underground comics in the 60's and 70's, most of them centered around marijuana consumption and the hippie lifestyle.

He designed a silver coin for Lasqueti Island in Canada, where it is in fact legal tender under Canadian law.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/files/images/Rand-Holmes3.jpg

One or two links might have been just coincidence, but five?

As for Lasqueti Island itself, here's a summary from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasqueti_Island):

Lasqueti Island is ... the only one of the larger Gulf Islands that is not connected to BC Hydro's electrical power grid. Solar, wind, micro-hydro and fossil fueled generators power the island ... Lasqueti is a major enclave of Canadian counter culture ... The cookie stand operates on an honour system and is always worth checking out ... no real markets exist on the island, just an informal food cooperative.

Sound familiar?

Wadoka
2009-04-13, 11:44 PM
In my last post on "rands", I just posted a link, but here it is spelled out a bit more...

I think you must have hit it, Quanton - thus proving there is no reference, no matter how obscure, that the collective consciousness of the 'Net cannot ferret out.


As to the Vulcan... I see an homage to "Spaceballs" by Mel Brooks.

"What are you doing?"

"The... Vulcan... neck pinch?"

"No no no, you got it all wrong. It ought to be higher."

"Like this?"

"Yeah -" FLUMPH!

Decius
2009-04-14, 12:37 AM
In my last post on "rands", I just posted a link, but here it is spelled out a bit more:

Rand Holmes was apparently a cartoonist who published a number of underground comics in the 60's and 70's, most of them centered around marijuana consumption and the hippie lifestyle.

He designed a silver coin for Lasqueti Island in Canada, where it is in fact legal tender under Canadian law.

One or two links might have been just coincidence, but five?




That's right- We have no evidence of anybody but a hippiemancer actually exchanging goods or services for Rand. It would certainly make sense for them to be useless to anyone else.

That changes the thinkamancers "No charge" from an altruistic or self-serving 'We will help' or 'We want all the credit' to a more snarky 'Don't bother paying us what you offered.'

Perhaps Rand are used for the purchase of Mawijuana?

Triforceelf
2009-04-14, 12:40 AM
Wow, I can't wait to see what happens next! Great references to so many things in this place, and now parson can truly gain his full power. :smallcool:

dr pepper
2009-04-14, 02:39 AM
I think you must have hit it, Quanton - thus proving there is no reference, no matter how obscure, that the collective consciousness of the 'Net cannot ferret out.


As to the Vulcan... I see an homage to "Spaceballs" by Mel Brooks.

"What are you doing?"

"The... Vulcan... neck pinch?"

"No no no, you got it all wrong. It ought to be higher."

"Like this?"

"Yeah -" FLUMPH!

See also Himalayan Time Suspension Technique.

tomaO2
2009-04-14, 02:52 AM
An important thing is to note is the difference between "disbanding" and "croaking".

Disbanding seems to be a dissolving back to wherever you came from. For most Erfworlders, this is a death sentence either way. However, since Parson had a life beforehand he must be aware that there is a chance that he could be sent back to Earth if he is disbanded, whereas croaked is croaked. No coming back from that.

It seems a reasonable assumption that Parson discovered that units were disbanded, rather then croaked when he found out about the magic kingdom portal. This is why he was all, "there's no place like home" just before entering it.

It was what I was expecting too. I thought Parson would disband, perhaps to be summoned again by a different faction at a later date. It really felt like stepping though that portal would take him back. That it didn't is very disconcerting to me.

Also, I don't think Parson could fake going unconscious that well, so he's probably is out for a bit. It would have been cool if he could have gone all "mother black dragon" against all those "V" type mancers.

Spock pinches him and he's like, "No." Then he grabs Spock and uses him as a human shield and bats back the spells flung at him with his sword. It's well known that flashy spells can be reflected back at the caster, especially if you have a mirror. He then takes all the mancers own and does a victory dance. Woot! :smallbiggrin:

ishnar
2009-04-14, 10:30 AM
That's right- We have no evidence of anybody but a hippiemancer actually exchanging goods or services for Rand. It would certainly make sense for them to be useless to anyone else.

That changes the thinkamancers "No charge" from an altruistic or self-serving 'We will help' or 'We want all the credit' to a more snarky 'Don't bother paying us what you offered.'


Rofl. Awesome point.

SteveD
2009-04-14, 01:41 PM
Parson an hippiemancer? it's less likely than you think.

He'd fit better in Clevermancy IMHO

I'll admit as a Hippiemancer he sucks a bit (killing over ten thousand Erfworlders), but don't forget there are 3 branches of Hippiemancy according to this table (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0040.html).

Unlikely he has anything to do with Flower Power, but Signamancy (fate) and Date-a-mancy (numbers) are possible).

No idea what Signa is...quick google revealed it to be the name of a Green chemical company (http://signachem.com/) which might be the reference.

Someone previously mentioned that Date-a-mancy might be time travel, but that seems off to me (wouldn't it be Datemancy?). Date-a-mancy might be another way of saying Datamancy, although I've no idea how that compares to mathmancy.

Gez
2009-04-14, 01:41 PM
I really like the idea that all references in Erfworld are from the 20th century or sooner.

I don't remember many references from the 19th century or earlier, but there are references to the 21st century (such as the aforementioned A Mighty Wind, which is a 2003 movie; and of course most Internet pop-culture references. So 20th century or later, not sooner. :smalltongue:

ishnar
2009-04-14, 02:25 PM
I don't remember many references from the 19th century or earlier, but there are references to the 21st century (such as the aforementioned A Mighty Wind, which is a 2003 movie; and of course most Internet pop-culture references. So 20th century or later, not sooner. :smalltongue:

a mighty wind is lyrics from a song. Plug all those words into google and click on the youtube link.

ishnar
2009-04-14, 02:28 PM
Someone previously mentioned that Date-a-mancy might be time travel, but that seems off to me (wouldn't it be Datemancy?). Date-a-mancy might be another way of saying Datamancy, although I've no idea how that compares to mathmancy.

A date-a-mancer is great at pick-up lines. :P

Architect
2009-04-14, 03:56 PM
I'll admit as a Hippiemancer he sucks a bit (killing over ten thousand Erfworlders), but don't forget there are 3 branches of Hippiemancy according to this table (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0040.html).

Unlikely he has anything to do with Flower Power, but Signamancy (fate) and Date-a-mancy (numbers) are possible).

No idea what Signa is...quick google revealed it to be the name of a Green chemical company (http://signachem.com/) which might be the reference.
"Sign" as in astrological sign.


Someone previously mentioned that Date-a-mancy might be time travel, but that seems off to me (wouldn't it be Datemancy?). Date-a-mancy might be another way of saying Datamancy, although I've no idea how that compares to mathmancy.
It sounded like numerology, belief in the magic of numbers, particularly with regards to calendar dates.

blackbird71
2009-04-14, 04:58 PM
Couldn't make out the shape of the wand without copying it to a paint program (not on my normal computer and suffering from lower res here). Yes, that's bottle shaped, so it's likely that the intent is for Jeannie. But still, the robe is definitely wrong. Jeannie wore "Arabian" garb to be consistent with the Arabian Nights djinn concept, and so she wore a belly-dancer's costume. That included balloon pants, not a dress.


Firiona's cloak is ankle length, and would look like a dress without the wind they usually blow at her to show skin from that rear-left angle.

Lay off it already. So it's a dress (skirt actually) instead of ballon pants - thats why its almost exact. The switch from ballon pants to skirt is much less of a stretch than turning a cloak that hangs from the shoulder into a skirt at the waist and then changing the color of everything from blue to pink. Honestly, the only link to the EQ elf is that it's a blonde with a bare midriff.

The outfit is very much in line with Jeanie's, the skirt/pants thing being the only exception, and that being a very minor alteration.

All the outfit items are the right color.

While it does appear to be a skirt, it is the same color/material as the balloon pants.

The top of the skirt (waistband) matches the top of the balloon pants in color and shape. It even has the same cutout pattern on the sides where the lighter pink material shows through (look by her left hand).

She has the same darker pink "jacket" top with the same cap sleeves.

She's wearing armbands on the bicep (not armored bracers on the forearm as shown in some of the EQ pics).

The wand is her bottle.

She's got the same hat.

And lastly, look again. That's not blonde hair dangling down her back: it's pink. It's the flimsy sort of transluscent scarf/veil material attached to the top of her hat.

So all the EQ kiddies can give it a rest already, it's not the elf!

(By the way, it's not the Mario Princess either)

Gez
2009-04-14, 05:01 PM
a mighty wind is lyrics from a song. Plug all those words into google and click on the youtube link.

Waaaaaaaayyy ahead of you. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5983903#post5983903)

And it's still from 2003, which is still after the first January of 2001, so it's still the 21st century rather than the 20th. :smalltongue:

dr pepper
2009-04-14, 07:24 PM
Waaaaaaaayyy ahead of you. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5983903#post5983903)

And it's still from 2003, which is still after the first January of 2001, so it's still the 21st century rather than the 20th. :smalltongue:


I believe what they're trying to tell you is that the *movie* is from the 21st century but the song is for the 20th and the comic references the song, *not* the movie.

Jon Pander
2009-04-14, 11:40 PM
When did Orko?
When did Carl Sagan?
When did Jeannie?

Actually, Orko used to have a wand. He lost it, and that's why he was so bad at magic - his wand was used to control his magic ability. Back in Trolla, he was a great wizard apparently.

Wisp Wings
2009-04-15, 09:46 AM
I have a theory on why he's a hippiemancer. Look at the three primary elements of magic- life, matter and motion. Hippiemancy consists of life and matter. As we have seen he is still alive and is made of a lot of matter, but can't achieve much motion...

Probably not though...

SteveD
2009-04-15, 10:18 AM
"Sign" as in astrological sign.

Hah, I can't believe I didn't see that. Thanks.

I can't see Parson as much of a stargazer. That must mean he's the date-a-mancy type.

But why would the Hippiemancer know more then anyone else? Most people seem to recognise what casters are just by looking at them.

The spell was supposed to have been created by lookmancers/findmancers. Did the Hippiemancers corrupt it to summon someone that might end war in Erfworld forever?

Goshen
2009-04-15, 07:08 PM
I just realized we can see a thinkamancer who must be Bunny on page 99, panel 6 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0111.html). She's think-a-gram-ing between the Don and Vinnie.

Wadoka
2009-04-15, 08:49 PM
I can't see Parson as much of a stargazer. That must mean he's the date-a-mancy type.

Well, he's certainly no Grand Abbie. :smallsmile:


The spell was supposed to have been created by lookmancers/findmancers. Did the Hippiemancers corrupt it to summon someone that might end war in Erfworld forever?

It would be a nicely plausible twist, that when Wanda went to order the spell, she ordered a Perfect Warlord - without specifying "Perfect... for whom?"

So aye, instead of Stanley's perfect warlord, they get a Caster's perfect Warlord...

glissle
2009-04-16, 02:43 AM
The spell was supposed to have been created by lookmancers/findmancers. Did the Hippiemancers corrupt it to summon someone that might end war in Erfworld forever?

Hmm, if he puts down his sword, he lacks ruthlessness and combat ability. If he takes off his glasses, he sees units as people instead of stats. If he takes off his bracer, he can't effectively think in terms of trading friendly lives for enemy lives.

Maybe the cereal box was lying when it described his reliance on magic items as an incompleteness in his warlordness. Maybe his deficiencies are part of his peacelordness.

Welf
2009-04-16, 07:04 AM
So, how exactly can creating a warlord/hippymancer end war on erfworld? Especially when the named warlord is sent to a side with only 1 city, less than 200 living man and a army of more than 10.000 units attacking in less than 5 turns? Not to forget that he is bound to the will of a halfwit like Stanley.

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-16, 07:31 AM
So, how exactly can creating a warlord/hippymancer end war on erfworld? Especially when the named warlord is sent to a side with only 1 city, less than 200 living man and a army of more than 10.000 units attacking in less than 5 turns? Not to forget that he is bound to the will of a halfwit like Stanley.

Uh, humm ...

"Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the fear to attack. And so, because of the unpersonal and irrevocable decision-making process of duty which rules out moral meddling, the Doomsday volcano is terrifying and simple to understand... and completely credible and convincing."

As the guy in my previous (and soon returning, after we see Stanley again) avatar said.

Welf
2009-04-16, 09:42 AM
Well, people will definitely stop attacking volcanos.

greywords
2009-04-16, 10:01 AM
The spell was supposed to have been created by lookmancers/findmancers. Did the Hippiemancers corrupt it to summon someone that might end war in Erfworld forever?

I think this is unlikely. Sizemore and Wanda seemed able to distinguish characteristics of the spell just by holding it ("Ooh. It pulses. With... what kind of magic? Fate?") While Findamancy and Lookamancy are both Erf axis, neither of their classes include the Matter access while Hippiemancy does. Had the Hippimancers augmented the spell, I think at least Wanda (and probably Sizemore) would have been able to tell that something was off.

The only Fate axis disciplines from classes that don't use Matter are Predictamancy, Dollamancy, Thinkamancy, and Healamancy. Predictamancy and Thinkamancy both fall within the classes fo the other two disciplines already included in the spell, but I don't think either of those could have had the effect we're talking about here. Maybe Dollamancy -- anyone watching Joss Wheedon's The Dollhouse? Could be something about altering Parson's personality a bit as he's summoned for this "encounter"... Of course, the comic predates The Dollhouse, but that doesn't mean the concept couldn't be similar.

It could also be "Healamancy" if we take the liberal definition of healing- maybe he's supposed to heal the rifts between the sides by ending war?

EDIT I don't know why I recalled that it was lookamancy - it's actually predictamancy for the second discipline so that shoots this theory to heck. That actually narrows down the elements involved to just Life, so only Hocus Pocus and Clevermancy classes could be involved without adding another element that Wanda or Sizemore might detect.

SteveMB
2009-04-16, 10:19 AM
EDIT I don't know why I recalled that it was lookamancy - it's actually predictamancy for the second discipline so that shoots this theory to heck. That actually narrows down the elements involved to just Life, so only Hocus Pocus and Clevermancy classes could be involved without adding another element that Wanda or Sizemore might detect.

Wanda gave two different descriptions of the spell: one when she pitched the idea to Stanley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html) ("the Findamancers and Predictamancers have forged a spell together."), and then a different one when she started chatting with Jillian (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0036.html) after the interrogation session ("This monstrous, combination Findamancy/Lookmancy... thing."). The significance of the two descriptions, if any, has yet to be revealed.

Fjolnir
2009-04-16, 12:23 PM
Predictamancy was probably used to ensure the spell will summon the warlord for the side's needs, you would need Lookamancy to actually locate the warlord in question and Findamancy probably is the one you would need to actually probe the universe for them (kinda like an internet search, you can find SORTA where it is but then you must go to the website to actually confirm if that's what you need) if that makes any sense at all, it makes both descriptions applicable without either being incorrect.

greywords
2009-04-16, 12:25 PM
Wanda gave two different descriptions of the spell: one when she pitched the idea to Stanley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html) ("the Findamancers and Predictamancers have forged a spell together."), and then a different one when she started chatting with Jillian (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0036.html) after the interrogation session ("This monstrous, combination Findamancy/Lookmancy... thing."). The significance of the two descriptions, if any, has yet to be revealed.

Interesting - so I was remembering correctly, just from a different page of the comic. Perhaps the explanation then is that Wanda doesn't actually know the full composition and there actually was meddling...

Still, I think we can call Occam's Razor in this case (which also follows the advice of the very first line in page one of the comic) and state that Janis was just trying to diffuse the situation.

I still hope he really is, though - would be a fantastic twist and open all sorts of new plot directions.

Glome
2009-04-16, 01:39 PM
Still, I think we can call Occam's Razor in this case (which also follows the advice of the very first line in page one of the comic) and state that Janis was just trying to diffuse the situation.

I still hope he really is, though - would be a fantastic twist and open all sorts of new plot directions.

Occam's razor assumes all the competing theories are equal in explanatory power. That isn't the case here, where Parson being a hippiemancer would explain not only why Janis said he was a hippiemancer, but also why he was able to use the portal, why his upkeep is so high, and why he is listed as being special.

Diffusing the situation on the other hand only explains why Janis said he was a hippiemancer. And poorly at that considering Parson was already unconscious and thus not an immediate threat, thus the need to lie at that point seems questionable.

Pointyleaf
2009-04-16, 01:46 PM
I think this is unlikely. Sizemore and Wanda seemed able to distinguish characteristics of the spell just by holding it ("Ooh. It pulses. With... what kind of magic? Fate?")

That could just be a pun from Sizemore/Wanda ("Yours..mine..ours.") Don't think we can really say without knowing how much "fatemancy" has to do with "fate".

ishnar
2009-04-16, 02:35 PM
So, how exactly can creating a warlord/hippymancer end war on erfworld? Especially when the named warlord is sent to a side with only 1 city, less than 200 living man and a army of more than 10.000 units attacking in less than 5 turns? Not to forget that he is bound to the will of a halfwit like Stanley.

I think the more important question is: Is ending war in a wargame a good thing? After all, when the war is over, people stop playing. End of war may well equal end of game. Game over, everyone disbands.

MadScientistMat
2009-04-16, 08:37 PM
I don't suggest that there is no such physical currency as a Rand, merely that it might be based on magical labor as most modern currencies were backed by precious metals.

It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't any physical currency in Erfworld, only a number on a slip of paper or in the computer's memory depending on whether it's a tabletop or computer game. Have we ever seen any examples of physical currency? It may be one of those things like civilians and printing presses that simply don't exist because the game mechanics never involve them.

MadScientistMat
2009-04-16, 08:43 PM
I don't remember many references from the 19th century or earlier, but there are references to the 21st century (such as the aforementioned A Mighty Wind, which is a 2003 movie; and of course most Internet pop-culture references. So 20th century or later, not sooner. :smalltongue:

We've also seen references to Renaissance era artwork like the Sistine Chapel, and the original Wizard of Oz was a nineteenth century work.

greywords
2009-04-16, 08:48 PM
Occam's razor assumes all the competing theories are equal in explanatory power. That isn't the case here, where Parson being a hippiemancer would explain not only why Janis said he was a hippiemancer, but also why he was able to use the portal, why his upkeep is so high, and why he is listed as being special.

Diffusing the situation on the other hand only explains why Janis said he was a hippiemancer. And poorly at that considering Parson was already unconscious and thus not an immediate threat, thus the need to lie at that point seems questionable.

That's a very good point - there are significantly fewer assumptions we have to make in the plot overall if he actually is a hippiemancer. Okay, I'm on board - it's the more likely option at this point. I can't wait to see how this plays out!


That could just be a pun from Sizemore/Wanda ("Yours..mine..ours.") Don't think we can really say without knowing how much "fatemancy" has to do with "fate".

True, but since one of the component parts of the spell is likely from the fate axis, there's likely some ability of [experienced] casters to tease apart the general components of a spell. At least, I'm more inclined to believe that than not given current discussions about magic in the comic.

SteveMB
2009-04-16, 09:18 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't any physical currency in Erfworld, only a number on a slip of paper or in the computer's memory depending on whether it's a tabletop or computer game. Have we ever seen any examples of physical currency? It may be one of those things like civilians and printing presses that simply don't exist because the game mechanics never involve them.

The satchel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html) from the scene where we first meet Sizemore studying Flower Power seems to be a money pouch, given the context where it appears.

fendrin
2009-04-16, 10:10 PM
Occam's razor assumes all the competing theories are equal in explanatory power. That isn't the case here, where Parson being a hippiemancer would explain not only why Janis said he was a hippiemancer, but also why he was able to use the portal, why his upkeep is so high, and why he is listed as being special.

Diffusing the situation on the other hand only explains why Janis said he was a hippiemancer. And poorly at that considering Parson was already unconscious and thus not an immediate threat, thus the need to lie at that point seems questionable.That's a very good point - there are significantly fewer assumptions we have to make in the plot overall if he actually is a hippiemancer. Okay, I'm on board - it's the more likely option at this point. I can't wait to see how this plays out!

I disagree...

Parson not being able to use the portal was a conjecture at best.
We needed no explanation (beyond what we already knew) for why his upkeep was so high.
Knocking out Parson keeps parson from attacking the 'casters, but does nothing to keep the 'casters from attacking Parson. Thus Janis lying accomplishes a goal significantly in line with her character.

Postulating that Parson has some hitherto unseen casting ability is a huge speculation, compared to Janis lying being a small speculation.

Could Parson secretly actually be a hippiemancer? Sure, but I highly doubt it is the case.


The satchel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html) from the scene where we first meet Sizemore studying Flower Power seems to be a money pouch, given the context where it appears. Sizemore is carrying the satchel in the last panel, he didn't leave the whole thing with Janis. Thus we can only speculate what it contains. It might have simply been a spare change of clothes.

Bawon von Howse
2009-04-17, 02:13 AM
well I don't really think that Parson can be a hippymancer. However taking inference from what he says when coming through the portal it would make sense that there had been some off screen discusison whereby the mechanics of the portal were discussed with him.

So presented with no option he went through...

...it is possible however that high level magic users can detect sorts of magic and for some reason that will be explained to us soon, Parson exhibits the display of being a hippie!

glissle
2009-04-17, 02:51 AM
The satchel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html) from the scene where we first meet Sizemore studying Flower Power seems to be a money pouch, given the context where it appears.

I can't see Sizemore handing Janis physical money and having the exchange "I can't - It's done.", because someone handed physical money can resist accepting it. The exchange suggests to me that Sizemore made a definitive transfer of Rands via natural magic. (She could probably send Rands back to Sizemore, but that would be a separate transaction that would not negate the fact of the payment.)

Bawon von Howse
2009-04-17, 03:16 AM
I can't see Sizemore handing Janis physical money and having the exchange "I can't - It's done.", because someone handed physical money can resist accepting it. The exchange suggests to me that Sizemore made a definitive transfer of Rands via natural magic. (She could probably send Rands back to Sizemore, but that would be a separate transaction that would not negate the fact of the payment.)

i just kind of assumed that the bag contained the rands....sizemore had given over the rands and she was saying no, i can't take them...as he didn't learn anything!

Oslecamo
2009-04-17, 05:09 AM
Postulating that Parson has some hitherto unseen casting ability is a huge speculation, compared to Janis lying being a small speculation.

Could Parson secretly actually be a hippiemancer? Sure, but I highly doubt it is the case.


Agreed. Probably only mancers are allowed in the magic realm, so Hamster should be executed on sight since he isn't a mancer. Janis is a hippiemancer and thus suports nonviolence, so she lies to protect Hamster's life.

By declaring Hamster's an hippiemancer, she's basicaly meaning:
"This guy's under my protection now, and if any of you try to mess up with him you'll answer to ME."

Bawon von Howse
2009-04-17, 05:16 AM
Agreed. Probably only mancers are allowed in the magic realm, so Hamster should be executed on sight since he isn't a mancer. Janis is a hippiemancer and thus suports nonviolence, so she lies to protect Hamster's life.

By declaring Hamster's an hippiemancer, she's basicaly meaning:
"This guy's under my protection now, and if any of you try to mess up with him you'll answer to ME."

yes & no...I can agree with what you are saying what Janice says, however, Parson says he doesn't know why he didn't disband not croak...which would imply that he was assuming he would disband by going through the portal...

...so maybe only mancers are allowed in the magic realm...and anything that isn't a mancer will disband...however Parson didn't disband (because he can't be disbanded? / not of erf) so he must be a mancer...Janice is just spreading her flower power and difusing a potentially hostile situation...

...or Parson really is a Hippymancer!

HandofShadows
2009-04-17, 07:32 AM
...or Parson really is a Hippymancer!


Compared to the average Erf Warlord Parson probably IS a Hippymancer. If he could, Parson would rather win without fighting. sm

SteveMB
2009-04-17, 08:20 AM
Parson not being able to use the portal was a conjecture at best.

It's clear that Parson believed that to be the case, to the point where he assumed that he'd have to stay behind and fight a hopeless battle after sending the casters through. That doesn't mean that it is the case (and we have now seen that it isn't, at least in the sense that it wasn't physically impossible for Parson to traverse the portal alive).

fendrin
2009-04-17, 09:23 AM
Some thoughts:

It is clearly daytime, which means that either it is truly daytime or it is always sunny at the Magic Kingdom. The former makes sense seeing the last two pages showed us evening/night. The latter is possible and could even be part of the joke of the place considering that Disney's Magic Kingdom is in Orlando Florida, which is known for it's sunny weather. I consider the former to be the case.

That means that some time has passed since Parson first entered the portal. Therefore either the portal was not instantaneous for Parson or a significant amount of time (hours) have passed since he emerged in portal park. If the portal was not instantaneous, there would have to be a reason that it was different for Parson than for Sizemore and Wanda at the beginning of the story.

If the portal was instantaneous, then Parson has spent hours in portal park, possibly alone (well, with Sizemore/Maggie/Wanda) but unable to leave (It's not his turn or his territory, so he cannot cross hex or zone boundaries, unless those rules don't apply to him, of which we have little to no evidence). Considering that portal park is essentially an airport (a point of arrival and departure) and not a travel destination itself, it is unlikely that people typically spend the night there. So Parson and the linked trio being discovered hours after their arrival makes sense. On the other hand, the portal behind Parson is still glowing in panel 2, but is not in panel 7.

In either case, if we assume it is truly day time, then either Parson's upkeep was paid or non-payment of upkeep does not (immediately) lead to disbandment. We have little to no evidence of the latter, and some for the former (e.g. Stanley's threat before he left GK) Parson's opening statements on the current page could then reasonably be attributable to his surprise that Stanley is still paying his (and Sizemore and Wanda's) upkeep.

Whether or not Parson is a 'mancer of any sort, the reason the portal let him through could be because it couldn't tell whether or not he was a caster. In some ways spellcasting is like computer programming. You define a set of parameters to trigger a particular event. If there are only two types of objects, {a,b}, you can define your trigger as "if object is type a" or "if object is not type b" and get the same results. However, if there is an unknown object of type c, the former will not trigger the function, but the latter will.

We know that Parson was not disbanded by the portal. Four possibilities:
The disbandment function of the portal doesn't exist or malfunctioned. Parson is a caster. Parson is not a caster, but the portal didn't recognize him as a non-caster and thus the disbandment function was not triggered. Parson is immune to disbanding.

EDIT:

Compared to the average Erf Warlord Parson probably IS a Hippymancer. If he could, Parson would rather win without fighting. sm I'm not sure if you are being litteral or not, but if you are:
Parson may share the attitude of the hippymancers, but that doesn't mean he is one. If attitude determined caster type and ability, Sizemore would be a hippymancer, but clearly is not, nor does he even have any aptitude for it (as his lack of progress in training with Janis indicates).


It's clear that Parson believed that to be the case, to the point where he assumed that he'd have to stay behind and fight a hopeless battle after sending the casters through. That doesn't mean that it is the case (and we have now seen that it isn't, at least in the sense that it wasn't physically impossible for Parson to traverse the portal alive).

Much earlier on, Parson had already rejected the notion of surrender or fleeing. He wasn't sure if it was his 'gamer 4 life, yo' attitude or Loyalty compelling him. It wasn't until staying guaranteed croaking that he chose to enter the portal. At that point his attitude would not compel him to stay and Loyalty would compel him leave. The point I am trying to make is that he would have stayed that long whether or not he believed the portal would disband him.

Pointyleaf
2009-04-17, 10:27 AM
Fendrin: Or this could just be going back slightly in time, to just after Parson goes through the portal (still RCC's turn, still during daytime).

Kreistor
2009-04-17, 10:29 AM
Although I agree that Parson being a Hippiemancer actually is indicated by Occam's Razor, I think the most compelling reason for Parson to be a Hippiemancer is that it errs on the side of humour. How ironic it is that the "Perfect Warlord" can cast spells of peace, love, and drug-induced tripping. In comics, one must always remember that humour trumps common sense.

Oslecamo
2009-04-17, 10:43 AM
That means that some time has passed since Parson first entered the portal. Therefore either the portal was not instantaneous for Parson or a significant amount of time (hours) have passed since he emerged in portal park. If the portal was not instantaneous, there would have to be a reason that it was different for Parson than for Sizemore and Wanda at the beginning of the story.


3rd option: Hamster is in another country/dimension wich has a diferent weahter system than Gobwin Knob, so it's day there while it was night back in the city.

Kreistor
2009-04-17, 11:03 AM
We know that Parson was not disbanded by the portal. Four possibilities:
The disbandment function of the portal doesn't exist or malfunctioned. Parson is a caster. Parson is not a caster, but the portal didn't recognize him as a non-caster and thus the disbandment function was not triggered. Parson is immune to disbanding.


You are assuming that the Portal would disband Parson. There is another possibility.

With powerful Lookamancers in the Magic Kingdom, they could be fully aware of the destruction of GK. Knowing that upkeep was being paid for Parson from the GK treasury, then upkeep should not be paid for Parson this turn. That means he should be disbanded just from failure to upkeep, and not from the portal. Clearly, the portal does not disband (don't anyone try to tell me you know what "disband" means... it might just mean getting fired) casters upon entry (Wanda knows Turn has started (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0011.html) and without a side, she would be a barbaroan with her own turn).

So, all we might be looking at here is Stanley choosing to pay Parson's upkeep, keeping him on Side.

(BTW, I suspect Stanley has moved Capital to Faq... but Faq was never actually destroyed in the first place, so it is capable of providing the funds to maintain all four of them. Stanley wasn't fleeing to a dead city as Jillian expected: he was fleeing to a thriving city long intended as a back-up plan in case GK failed. That is, and I admit, pure speculation, but I remind you that all we know of Faq came from Jillian, and her intelligence on that matter was woefully incomplete. I am arguing this issue elsewhere. This may be resolved very soon. Unlinked Wanda would know if the portal from MK to Faq remained active, and could take them all through.)

chefsotero
2009-04-17, 11:40 AM
Much earlier on, Parson had already rejected the notion of surrender or fleeing. He wasn't sure if it was his 'gamer 4 life, yo' attitude or Loyalty compelling him. It wasn't until staying guaranteed croaking that he chose to enter the portal. At that point his attitude would not compel him to stay and Loyalty would compel him leave. The point I am trying to make is that he would have stayed that long whether or not he believed the portal would disband him.

Everything points that Parson belived that he would be unable to use the portal, either coz he would be croacked/disbanded or Simply slaming into a wall. This would make the choice quite easy for him, he even consider surrender (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0147.html), but realize its would be a foolish attempt.

I belive he would do (and actually did) everithing in his power to avoid the coalition winning, but would not go on a suicide path. And as regarded before an 99% chance of dying is way better then an 100% one

Welf
2009-04-17, 11:44 AM
In addition to what Pointleaf and Oslecamo said, two more options:
The Transylvitos are in high mountain terrain; the sun could be simply blocked by the mountains. In late evening this can make a big difference.
Erfworld isn't flat, and Parson just was transported a lot of degrees west. If he was transferred from the erfworld-coiunterpart of scotland (the natural habit of plaids) to California (the natural habit of magic kingdoms) he jumped over 8 hours of time difference. But only two or 3 hours would do the same trick.

chefsotero
2009-04-17, 11:55 AM
(don't anyone try to tell me you know what "disband" means... it might just mean getting fired)

Well I cannot say what disband actually means in Erfworld Mechanics, but from this page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0080.html) I take that sizemore was more scarred of beeing disbanded than beeing croaked. Which IMHO shows that it got to be considerably worst then a call from the HR lady:smallwink:



(BTW, I suspect Stanley has moved Capital to Faq... but Faq was never actually destroyed in the first place, so it is capable of providing the funds to maintain all four of them. Stanley wasn't fleeing to a dead city as Jillian expected: he was fleeing to a thriving city long intended as a back-up plan in case GK failed. That is, and I admit, pure speculation, but I remind you that all we know of Faq came from Jillian, and her intelligence on that matter was woefully incomplete. I am arguing this issue elsewhere. This may be resolved very soon. Unlinked Wanda would know if the portal from MK to Faq remained active, and could take them all through.)

I find this unlikely given that Wanda states that GK has only the capital (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html) And if she knew about an extra city she would have told Parson during the strateggy-boot-camp-o-hamma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0137.html).

EDIT: Also this conversation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0019.html) give me reason to believe that disbanding = ceasing to exist, given that wanda says that: "The spell which summoned you will end your existence entirelly" and in the last panel the Tool states that: "I already have enouth reasons to disband you". Again no hard proof. But it does seem to me as the most likely hypotesis.

greywords
2009-04-17, 12:18 PM
Although I agree that Parson being a Hippiemancer actually is indicated by Occam's Razor, I think the most compelling reason for Parson to be a Hippiemancer is that it errs on the side of humour. How ironic it is that the "Perfect Warlord" can cast spells of peace, love, and drug-induced tripping. In comics, one must always remember that humour trumps common sense.

Excellent point - perhaps we're overanalyzing this to death.

On a somewhat related topic, does anyone want to speculate on the origin of the magic items/artifacts that Parson's wielding? Did they just pop on their own as part of his rations, or were they created by casters (e.g. possibly even the same casters in the Magic Kingdom that created the spell that summoned him in the first place)? It's possible that one or more of them is the reason that he's able to pass through the portal (a perfect warlord could theoretically attack any where, any time) or is considered a Hippiemancer (though I think this is less likely).

Kreistor
2009-04-17, 12:20 PM
Well I cannot say what disband actually means in Erfworld Mechanics, but from this page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0080.html) I take that sizemore was more scarred of beeing disbanded than beeing croaked. Which IMHO shows that it got to be considerably worst then a call from the HR lady:smallwink:

I don't see anything more from Sizemore than normal concern there: there's no look of horror or panic, and he remains calm and rational. I don't see the fear you do, and in fact, I see someone that is merely concerned for another unit in his Side that is considering disObedience. Beside that, given that Obedience effects would force Sizemore to comply with Stanley's order (and insufficient knowledge of strategy/tactics to doubt Stanley), you can't read anything into his actions there. Parson, on the other hand, has a concern that Stanley's best interest is to attack Ansom that next day because he does understand strategy/tactics, so his contemplation of disobeying orders is more reasonable. (Though in his case he's probably just forgetting that there are more dire consequences than disbanding for him, thanks to the spell (frame 7) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0019.html). We do see Parson contemplate disobedience and disloyalty, but he never actually takes actions that might be interpreted as such.)



I find this unlikely given that Wanda states that GK has only the capital (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html) And if she knew about an extra city she would have told Parson during the strateggy-boot-camp-o-hamma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0137.html).

Unless she was under orders not to reveal what she knew of Faq to anyone (which would also explain why she did not tell Jillian anything about what happened). Those orders I think she would not be disobedient over. 1) These are her people and revealing them threatens those she cares about. Whiel secret, they continue to be a peaceful bubble kingdom. 2) As a back-up plan, it is spoiled if revealed, and that would definitely not be in the interest of her Ruler. With Parson dealing with Charlie, there is the potential for undesired information transfer: Parson is a security risk.

Note that Wanda has no problem not telling Parson about the scrolls she has saved. Speculating that she might tell him abot such a back-up plan can't help Parson, especially when she knows Parson can't retreat through mountains that require flight or tunneling. Stanley has made it clear they are to remain in GK, so Faq's existence is quite unhelpful.

chefsotero
2009-04-17, 12:40 PM
I don't see anything more from Sizemore than normal concern there

Indeed I cannot say that ur reasonning is incorect, I'm just using Sotero's Razor here "In deciding amongst 2 hypotesis that have equivalent explanatory powers and Complexity degrees, pick the one that sounds cooler"



Unless she was under orders not to reveal what she knew of Faq to anyone (which would also explain why she did not tell Jillian anything about what happened)

But that would not explain why did she told the Tool that GK was reduced to the capitall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html), only if the tool knew but wanda did not. Which is indeed a possibility, but then Maggie would know about it (from her last link dutie). I not saying that Faq is or is not a ruin, I just saying that Wanda belives it to be a ruin (or at least not an GK city).

blackbird71
2009-04-17, 03:33 PM
3rd option: Hamster is in another country/dimension wich has a diferent weahter system than Gobwin Knob, so it's day there while it was night back in the city.


Fourth option:

At the time of the eruption, it was still daylight hours and there was no natural darkness. Rather, as is wont to happen with volcanic eruptions, the resulting smoke and ash obscurred the sun. The last we see of the exterior at GK immediately before the eruption(page 136, panel 7) seems to show a decent amount of ambient light, with shadows of falling rocks. This is consistent with page 137, where there is heavy smoke visible in the sky.

In the first panel of 138, it seems that the sun is just barely setting. The statement "Bunny's been very busy" seems to indicate that they have been spending some time trying to sort out what happened, and to make sense of their intelligence. So it would be reasonable to conclude that the scene on pp. 138-139 occurred some time after the volcanic eruption.

And so it would make sense that the scene on page 140, where Parson et al have arrived in the Magic Kingdom, occurs immediately after he stepped through the portal on page 136, some time before the events of pp. 138-139, still during daylight hours, and that the location of MK is distant enough not to be immediately affected by the aftermath of the volcano.

Jon Pander
2009-04-17, 04:31 PM
Perhaps Rand are used for the purchase of Mawijuana?


They don't call it the 'Magic Weed' for nothing.

Kreistor
2009-04-17, 06:45 PM
Indeed I cannot say that ur reasonning is incorect, I'm just using Sotero's Razor here

Came up with another idea. Perhaps any non-caster crossing through the portal would be considered Disobedient of their Ruler, in which case it's not the portal itself that disbands the unit, but Disobedience. Or...

Okay, I think I'm getting something here. Let's posit a pair of casters, Alpha Caster in Nation A and Beta Caster in Nation B. A is attacking B. Ruler B is worried that Beta, who was a captured caster and loyalty is low, might be going to the Magic Kingdom to give Alpha information concerning B's units. Ruler B has a vested interest in that Portal being guarded. Heavily. But, it would be better for him if there was a consequence for any unit that goes to the MK without orders.

That's why Maggie, Wanda, and Sizemore didn't jump through the Portal earlier without orders. If they jumped through without orders, they'd be disbanded. That would come with a reputation. If ordered through, they'd be seen to be on a Side, then the Side ends and they go barbarian in MK, with no stigma.

Okay, I'm happier with that now. The Portal disbands to prevent spying. Parson, without orders, should have been disbanded, while the linked Three had orders, so they wouldn't.

chefsotero
2009-04-17, 07:14 PM
Okay, I'm happier with that now. The Portal disbands to prevent spying. Parson, without orders, should have been disbanded, while the linked Three had orders, so they wouldn't.

That's interesting. I would personally just put a padlock on the portal, or anyother mechanism that turn on and off the portal acording to the side ruler's will. But that may be unfeaseble or simple not as interesting as seeing an rebel unit blow to bits when the try to double cross u.

But Parson was the chief warlord/acting comander of GK so he should be free to take this kind of action w/out some order, given that lowiallity is stronger with him. If u can't trust even your chief warlord either u r booped in the boop or u r an character in the dune universe.

DevilDan
2009-04-17, 08:22 PM
There are almost too many potential explanations to even list for why a "caster sensor" could have failed to detect Parson as a non-caster.

Kreistor
2009-04-17, 08:57 PM
There are almost too many potential explanations to even list for why a "caster sensor" could have failed to detect Parson as a non-caster.

Sure. But how many reasons for them can you come up with that actually make any sense.

Look at the Warlord summoning spell. What defects did it have? Unintended results? It was poorly cast by a non-Lookamancer, and even then, the spell compensated for the screw up by providing items to recover lost, but necessary, abilities. That's a very well thought out spell.

If the Portal disbands some people that pass through, then that is not an accident. It's the reason why it does it that is important, not how.

greywords
2009-04-17, 09:16 PM
Sure. But how many reasons for them can you come up with that actually make any sense.

Clearly the answer lies in his Luckamancy Charms - they're always after them so he can use the magic to escape from the crazy kids to wherever he wants.

Then again, Parson's a little big to make a good leprechaun.

Abatal
2009-04-21, 03:57 PM
Personally, after catching up on my reading and getting to this page, I felt I had to comment. I don't think that she is lying. I think that Parson is in fact a Hippiemancer, in this situation. He is trying to defuse the situation and make peace, if only to save himself. I believe that his "special" attribute means that he can take on any job depending on the situation, just as we do in reality. Of course, this is all conjecture and I am interested to see the outcome of this.