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View Full Version : Sizemore's name and his pacifism



Daemmerung
2009-04-18, 02:35 PM
Sizemore. Seismor. "Quaker."

It only took 141 pages of Erfworld for me to see the pun. Brought into focus, perhaps, by his strong distaste for a Ruthless Perfect Warlord.

ishnar
2009-04-18, 02:44 PM
Sizemore. Seismor. "Quaker."

It only took 141 pages of Erfworld for me to see the pun. Brought into focus, perhaps, by his strong distaste for a Ruthless Perfect Warlord.

this doesn't google so I don't know what you mean.

Google replies: "did you mean seismo"

Kletian999
2009-04-18, 03:00 PM
Seismo, meaning Seisomograph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismograph

Which is how you measure Earthquakes. The "Quakers" were a pacifist religious group that helped found the Colony which is now the State of Pennsylvania.

Bravo OP, I hadn't seen it before either.

ishnar
2009-04-18, 03:39 PM
Seismo, meaning Seisomograph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismograph

Which is how you measure Earthquakes. The "Quakers" were a pacifist religious group that helped found the Colony which is now the State of Pennsylvania.

Bravo OP, I hadn't seen it before either.

Oh, that's pretty cool :) Thanks for the explanation.

T-O-E
2009-04-18, 04:00 PM
Actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28984)


Sizemore Rockwell, eh? Nice one, Rob. References to obscure yet awesome local bands can only add to the intrigue of the comic. I can see where the earnest dweeb look comes from, but you could have at least given him a fu manchu.


Heh, I borrowed only your names. I could never hope to capture the quintessence of Durt Sizemore and Riff Rockwell in the same character. The character comes from another source entirely.

Illiander
2009-04-19, 03:16 AM
Which is how you measure Earthquakes. The "Quakers" were a pacifist religious group that helped found the Colony which is now the State of Pennsylvania.

[RANT ON]ARE (They´re still going strong, at least in the UK) a pacifist religious group that helped found the state of Pennsylvania (ad most of the rest of the colonies, William Penn was given Pennsylvania to pay off debts to him by (I think) the British crown). Also the reason for the silly hats all early colonists are pictured wearing. They walked away from political positions (Which they were dominating, cos most of them are NOT hypocrites) when the compromises got too much for them to be comfortable.[RANT OFF]

Sorry, I was raised Quaker (not born, because you can´t be born a Quaker anymore, they made a policy decision that people should decide their religion themselves, not have it decided by their parents (oops, preaching again...)). Best group of people that you´ll ever meet. Utterly bizzare, but for an organized religion, they´re impressively nice.

dr pepper
2009-04-19, 12:16 PM
Quakers are doing well in the US too. One became president a while back.

Grogah
2009-04-19, 12:25 PM
*\me raises hand*

I'm a Quaker, and even though Nixon was not actually a Quaker (he was raised one but rejected the faith and nonviolence), we are doing quite well, both in the US and abroad. Africa has a growing population, especially in the Great Lakes Region.


Sorry, I was raised Quaker (not born, because you can´t be born a Quaker anymore, they made a policy decision that people should decide their religion themselves, not have it decided by their parents (oops, preaching again...)). Best group of people that you´ll ever meet. Utterly bizzare, but for an organized religion, they´re impressively nice.

One can still be born a Quaker. Quakers make no "policy decisions". We are non-creadal, non-dogmatic, and have no clergy or central body which makes decisions for the faith.

ishnar
2009-04-19, 02:16 PM
*\me raises hand*

I'm a Quaker, and even though Nixon was not actually a Quaker (he was raised one but rejected the faith and nonviolence), we are doing quite well, both in the US and abroad. Africa has a growing population, especially in the Great Lakes Region.



One can still be born a Quaker. Quakers make no "policy decisions". We are non-creadal, non-dogmatic, and have no clergy or central body which makes decisions for the faith.

There is a Society of Friends school here in Virginia I walk past periodically.

And what's with calling yourselves Quaker, I thought the term was derogatory so wouldn't be used to describe one's self.

Illiander
2009-04-19, 02:41 PM
One can still be born a Quaker. Quakers make no "policy decisions". We are non-creadal, non-dogmatic, and have no clergy or central body which makes decisions for the faith.

ok, FINE!

The Religious Society of Friends´ yearly meeting in the UK came to the consensus that someone´s religion is not based on their parents´ religion, therefore stopped offering lifelong memberships to The Religious Society of Friends to children born to parents who are members of The Religious Society of Friends (on that basis). Unless we´ve changed our mind about that, I don´t attend much anymore.

Happy? See how much more effort that took to type?


And what's with calling yourselves Quaker, I thought the term was derogatory so wouldn't be used to describe one's self.

If I remember correctly, it´s from the early quakers literally "quaking" in meeting for worship. Nothing derogatory about that, as far as I can see, and it´s a lot easier on the mouth than trying to pronounce Friend in a way that makes the capital clear.

And a US president (or any "leader" of a country for that matter) who actually believed in non-violence would be an amazing thing...

ishnar
2009-04-19, 03:09 PM
And a US president (or any "leader" of a country for that matter) who actually believed in non-violence would be an amazing thing...

A pacifist country is completely at the mercy of an aggressor nation, so its only real defense is making itself as irrelevant as possible, and America does not subscribe to the policy of irrelevance.

Many idealist policies only work if all parties follow the same policy. Toleration, peace, pacifism, honor policy, anarchism. All you need is one person to buck the system and the entire system comes crashing down. The system gets suspended and other methods are used to eliminate the problem. More importantly, any idealist policy is self-defeating by creating the instruments of its downfall. E.g. raise enough kids under the Honor Policy, and sooner or later one of the kids is going to realize, "Look at all this free stuff I only have to reach over and take and no one would notice."

Grogah
2009-04-19, 03:20 PM
A pacifist country is completely at the mercy of an aggressor nation, so its only real defense is making itself as irrelevant as possible, and America does not subscribe to the policy of irrelevance.

You're confusing pacifism with passivism. There is a huge difference. Pacifists are never at the mercy of aggressors, see MLK Jr. and Mahatma Ghandi for references of people who practiced active pacifism and sacrificed themselves for peace, and one against armed and powerful aggressors.

As far as the question about calling oneself a Quaker, yes it is a derogatory term, but Jesus told us to turn the other cheek. What better way than by embracing the derogatory term and learning to love it and cherish it.

*looks at sig*, seems pretty effective in all walks of life, no? Wear your enemies derision with pride. Love it, cherish it, and make it your own.

Grogah
2009-04-19, 03:26 PM
The Religious Society of Friends´ yearly meeting in the UK came to the consensus that someone´s religion is not based on their parents´ religion, therefore stopped offering lifelong memberships to The Religious Society of Friends to children born to parents who are members of The Religious Society of Friends (on that basis). Unless we´ve changed our mind about that, I don´t attend much anymore.

Happy? See how much more effort that took to type?

Well no. It still misses the point. The Yearly meeting for the UK has no effect on the bodies of friends, and if they're now in the business of offering memberships at all... they've strayed quite a bit from the path. Friends hold their convictions and beliefs between themselves, God, and their meeting, not with some supposed religious authority. The very idea of a religious authority is anathema to the belief of Quakers.

Personally I was born a Quaker, raised partially atheist, and converted to Christianity in my early 20's, shopped around, and settled on the RSoF years later. But I still consider myself born a Quaker, it took me a while to realize it and understand why.

kpenguin
2009-04-19, 03:26 PM
I think you're stretching that a little bit.


Also:
Wow guys. Politics and religion in the same thread!:smallsigh:

Grogah
2009-04-19, 03:36 PM
I think you're stretching that a little bit.


Also:
Wow guys. Politics and religion in the same thread!:smallsigh:

True, true, not on topic. Guys PM me if you want to keep talking.

I think the bit seems plausible with Sizemore myself.

Daemmerung
2009-04-19, 04:17 PM
I think you're stretching that a little bit.

Mmmmmaybe. To me, however, it's clear that almost every name in Erfworld contains some layered pun or allusion. ("Dora" defeats me at the moment, okay....) When we're first introduced to Sizemore on (pp 11, 13), he's trying to learn the basics of Flower Power, hinting at the character's essential pacifism. And for a dirtamancer's name to contain the seism- root-- an earthquake, from the Greek to quake, to shake-- this has to be more than a mere Assrockers in-joke ("Durt" a mancy?).

I don't see the comic making a point of Sizemore's celibacy, musical inspiration, communalism, or wooden crafts, so I won't claim he's a Shaker. A Quaker, yes, but not a Shaker.

(Now I have Run-DMC's "Peter Piper" stuck in my head. Darn it.)

ishnar
2009-04-19, 05:05 PM
You're confusing pacifism with passivism. There is a huge difference. Pacifists are never at the mercy of aggressors, see MLK Jr. and Mahatma Ghandi for references of people who practiced active pacifism and sacrificed themselves for peace, and one against armed and powerful aggressors.


Citing examples of pacifists who were assassinated does not support the point that they were not at the mercy of their enemies.

dr pepper
2009-04-19, 08:38 PM
Mmmmmaybe. To me, however, it's clear that almost every name in Erfworld contains some layered pun or allusion. ("Dora" defeats me at the moment, okay....)

Dora the Explorer.

bobvader314
2009-04-19, 10:26 PM
Citing examples of pacifists who were assassinated does not support the point that they were not at the mercy of their enemies.

Are you under the impression that India is still a British colony and the Jim Crow laws are still on the books?

Nonviolent resistance often means putting one's life on the line, just like armed resistance. Also, sometimes people die, which is of course *completely different* than what would happen in the context of an armed conflict.

Finally, very often, nonviolent resistance is the best policy option, because choosing the alternative--armed conflict--would be to engage your enemy in the context they are best equipped to deal with you.

I won't deny that nonviolent resistance is most effective when confronting a society that has a distaste for violence, but it is not essential. It can be an alternative tactic to guerrilla warfare when one's strategic objective is to make the continuation of some policy (such as an occupation or a systematic form of repression) too costly to continue pursuing.

This book (available as a free PDF) discusses the strategic logic of a nonviolent resistance campaign in detail:
http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations98ce.html

Bookkeeper@Arms
2009-04-19, 10:41 PM
Sizemore = "Sighs More". I.E., he's depressed. And if you were a peaceful man in a world of eternal warfare, you'd be depressed too. (Not to mention his function - ICK!)

Grogah
2009-04-21, 12:46 AM
Citing examples of pacifists who were assassinated does not support the point that they were not at the mercy of their enemies.

You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that the greatest goal of a pacifist is preserving their own lives. That would be a passivist. Pacifists don't seek not to die, but not to kill others in the pursuit of their goals. Pacifists need to be ready to die for their beliefs, but not to kill. And as was stated, King and Ghandi fulfilled their goals.

Kletian999
2009-04-22, 11:21 AM
Seismo, meaning Seisomograph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismograph

Which is how you measure Earthquakes. The "Quakers" were a pacifist religious group that helped found the Colony which is now the State of Pennsylvania.

Bravo OP, I hadn't seen it before either.

Thanks to all the contemporary Quakers for affirming the group is still active (whereas the Shakers, who disavowed sex, are not, and that was not a joke)- my knowledge of them is solely from American History and the product "Quaker Oatmeal" so I only wanted to state what I knew about their past. Anyways, they encouraged peace, and were pretty awesome people in terms of being years ahead of many civil rights movements (they may still be awesome to this day).

ComradeTaro
2009-04-23, 01:39 AM
Thanks to all the contemporary Quakers for affirming the group is still active (whereas the Shakers, who disavowed sex, are not, and that was not a joke)- my knowledge of them is solely from American History and the product "Quaker Oatmeal" so I only wanted to state what I knew about their past. Anyways, they encouraged peace, and were pretty awesome people in terms of being years ahead of many civil rights movements (they may still be awesome to this day).

I joined the forum just to crush your faith in humanity; the previously mentioned Quaker president was Richard Nixon.

Kasavin
2009-04-23, 02:59 AM
Sizemore. Seismor. "Quaker."

It only took 141 pages of Erfworld for me to see the pun. Brought into focus, perhaps, by his strong distaste for a Ruthless Perfect Warlord.

I think you're taking the connection one step to far, literally. Seismograph, something that measures earthquakes? The man is a dirtmancer, who later we discover CAN cause earthquakes. That, and there's a lot more than just pacificism to the Quaker way of life.