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kpenguin
2009-04-22, 11:52 PM
New comic is up.

Is Wanda going to uncroak Ansom? Is she even more scary than before?

gcb001
2009-04-22, 11:56 PM
my guess is that she is going to uncroak him into the most powerful uncroaked warlord she can. It follows that whole thing of "now you fight for the side you fought so hard against, all the while watching me wield the pliers you could never truly use".

So......i guess stanley will have a warlord to come back to as well as parson!

Also if ansom is there.......what about all the other corpses?

Fjolnir
2009-04-22, 11:56 PM
time for devildan to dust off the uncroaked ansom avvy, since his wish comes true soon!

FoE
2009-04-22, 11:57 PM
Is Wanda going to uncroak Ansom? Is she even more scary than before?

Oh, I hope so.

Titans bless you Wanda, you deliciously evil, sexy monster.

Triumphales
2009-04-23, 12:02 AM
The Grand Abbey was right! Erfworld does need Parson...

Alexei P
2009-04-23, 12:03 AM
I found this page - especially Wanda's dialogue - weirdly disturbing. For me, this is suggesting Parson's arrival just might change Erfworld for the worse, not better.

koima
2009-04-23, 12:04 AM
there was a guy posting who had made an avatar of an undead ansom. looks like dude was right!

Cloudbreaker
2009-04-23, 12:04 AM
I'm beginning to wonder wether or not Wanda could bring him all the way back from death now that she has the arkenpliers. I think she would do it for Jillian.

Lunaya
2009-04-23, 12:04 AM
Oh. Oh, no. Wanda is definitely going to uncroak Ansom, and do you know what she's gonna do next? She's going to use him to get back at Jillian, in a very, very bad way.

ss49
2009-04-23, 12:06 AM
For a moment, I thought we were going to get some Wanda backstory.

H-Bar
2009-04-23, 12:07 AM
Any ideas on what else Wanda has wrecked and ruined? FAQ is probably part of it, but that alone probably isn't big enough.

Bookkeeper@Arms
2009-04-23, 12:10 AM
Okay, that answers a few questions. I had wondered how a zip like Stanley could have acquired Wanda's loyalty. Now I see he didn't - she had prophetic knowledge that she would be the Arkenplier's wielder, and she used Stanley as a (ahem) tool. Will she stay with Stanley, or does she have another agenda?

If Wanda takes long, slow care in uncroaking Ansom, augmented by the Arkenpliers, will Ansom be fully self-aware? How will Jillian respond to that - her male lover made the undead slave of her female lover? (Poor Jillian - she's getting kicked in the gut so many ways. What did she do to the author to make him so mad at her?)

And we still have to wait for Stanley to return and stir the chamberpot. Is he aware of the status of Gobwin Knob via his Overlord powers? Is Sizemore enough of a workforce to begin filling the treasury with his mining operations? Or will they have to locate some other workers?

When Jillian gets to the ruins of Faq, will she refound the city or not? Or will the Transylvito goodfellas claim it? I can assume a later round of Parson's private war will include a restored Faq. (How long does that take? From founding to unit production to military deployment?)

(Conjecture: Can it be that Royals can never attune to the Arkentools? After all the Titans are based on Elvis, who was called "King" even though he was from the most plebian roots imaginable. Perhaps only "self-made men" can attune to the Arkentools?)

gatitcz
2009-04-23, 12:11 AM
Awesome page. I haven't posted for awhile, but I wanted to say that from the volcano trap to this page, I've really been enjoying it. I loved Parson's line about what you wish for, Arkenpliers attuning to Wanda, and the evilness of uncroaking Ansom. When Jillian gets back...

Kreistor
2009-04-23, 12:12 AM
Poor DevilDan... he lost his faith.

dmorenus
2009-04-23, 12:15 AM
Looks like everyone that was saying Wanda was in it because Faq's predictamancer told her she'd get the pliers was right.

In other news, Wanda Fanservice FTW!

Haven
2009-04-23, 12:17 AM
I liked this page. Interesting little hints to the past, and some exploration of Parson's motives, which it feels like we haven't had for some time.

"You didn't wish for this world, Parson Gotti. It wished for you."


(Conjecture: Can it be that Royals can never attune to the Arkentools? After all the Titans are based on Elvis, who was called "King" even though he was from the most plebian roots imaginable. Perhaps only "self-made men" can attune to the Arkentools?)

This theory makes a surprising amount of sense!

tomaO2
2009-04-23, 12:19 AM
Thank you authors for doing such rapid updates. The past month or two feels like the most active you have been in a year or more. I especially appreciate it because everything is quite confusing right now and I await eagerly for the resolution to this story.

In other news, we finally get to the predicamancer's involvement. At least I was right about her playing some part in what was to come. If it was fortold that Parson would kill everyone though, why did Wanda seem to think he would fail when things looked bleek? Anyway, looks like Wanda had something to do with the fall of FAQ after all, perhaps even with killing off Saline IV. I believe I was of the opinion that she could have done neither (it was so long ago since I argued that last), so I think I'm going to be eating some crow soon.

Also, why is Ansom not a charred skeleton? If he's okay, hopefully the magic carpet is too. Parson needs a better way to get around.

In addition, I can totally understand what Parson is talking about when he said that he wanted war without the death. While it's not possible in to have that on Earth, I find such a question amusing as a huge number of things that are possible in Erfworld are not on Earth. Why not the no-death as well?

PS. Also, this is the first time Wanda has called Parson by his name. What could this mean? I get the impression that she did this because she sees herself as his equal or superior now. Perhaps it's a sign that she will split onto her own now as she doesn't need him anymore.

Rockphed
2009-04-23, 12:19 AM
I agree with those who found this page really creepy. No, not creepy. Disturbing. It was, against all reasonable odds, distinctly unsettling. Wanda is shown as more evil than ever while also showing Parson as a sympathetic character.

WarriorTribble
2009-04-23, 12:19 AM
So many questions...

What will she do with Ansom's body? I'm guessing a full uncroaking (raise dead) with a mind control spell.

Will she bother to stay around now that her goals, or at least her primary goal has have been reached? Probably not. Course, the real question is, what the boop ARE her goals now? Attempt to dominate the world and butt heads with Parson/the Tool?

Was the costume change thanks to the Arkentool? Eh, I've no clue.

The Old Hack
2009-04-23, 12:20 AM
Oh, this is absolutely gorgeous. As ever, Wanda is chilling and and calculating. And I thought of another disturbing implication: a major part of Parson's presence is that the casters of the Magic Kingdom wanted him there. The 'summon perfect warlord' spell was in reality a plot or even trap to lure some King or Overlord into starting the War to end all Wars. It did not work out that way in our world, not precisely... but perhaps that is what the Grand Abbie and her allies have in mind.

If I hadn't already fully been planning to follow Erfworld as far as the road will take it, this page would have convinced me to. The threads are coming together, and a tangled web do they weave indeed.

Kyouhen
2009-04-23, 12:20 AM
I'm going to predict that Wanda will use the power of the 'pliers to turn Ansom into an intelligent uncroaked. Not only will she be able to use him against Jillian, but he'll be aware of it and completely helpless to stop himself.

Zombie Nixon
2009-04-23, 12:24 AM
Okay, that answers a few questions. I had wondered how a zip like Stanley could have acquired Wanda's loyalty. Now I see he didn't - she had prophetic knowledge that she would be the Arkenplier's wielder, and she used Stanley as a (ahem) tool. Will she stay with Stanley, or does she have another agenda?

I'm pretty sure she can't backstab or abandon Stanley, even if she wanted to. Besides, Stanley's a pretty easy guy to manipulate, she wouldn't even need to go behind him to get what she wants.

DevilDan
2009-04-23, 12:25 AM
Maybe I should be bringing out my old avatar...

Why is Stanley actually better liked when he's following what he thinks is prophesied as opposed to Wanda who seems to be following an honest-to-goodness prophecy. Just wonderin'...

sheepfly
2009-04-23, 12:30 AM
This seems like the type of strip/conversation that the author has had planned out in his head for a LONG time, perhaps since the beginning of the comic. Note Wanda calling Parson by his full name--haven't seen that since he was first summoned. Nice bookend.

MCerberus
2009-04-23, 12:33 AM
Perhaps Wanda's new toy will make the uncroaked she... uncroakes not decay. At least that's my bet for the 'pliers "super unit".

Highwarlord
2009-04-23, 12:33 AM
Suspicion - Wanda turned over Jillian's cities to Stanley.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-23, 12:35 AM
You didn't wish for this world, Parson Gotti. It wished for you.
My mind, it is blown :smalleek:

Also: man, I can't believe the "Wanda betrayed FAQ because of the Predictamancer" theory was right. Now, the only way to align it fully with my personal theory is for Wanda to have been the Predictamancer for FAQ...

EDIT:
Oh yeah, and Uncroaked Ansom = the Uncroaked Miko That Never Was. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html)

Fjolnir
2009-04-23, 12:37 AM
according to the facebook page he claims this was a line that he was waiting to use for "the whole book" so yeah this was a long planned page, we must be reaching the end of the book soon

Ragamuffin
2009-04-23, 12:38 AM
Her speech impediment is gone...
Did that happen just now?

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-23, 12:40 AM
Her speech impediment is gone...
Did that happen just now?
It was likely fixed by the five Master-Class Thinkamancers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0153.html) who undid the Link

TamLin
2009-04-23, 12:47 AM
More people now seem to be getting as creeped out by Wanda as I've been for years. I find it slightly odd that Wanda seems to be able to find anything and everything she needs in the ruins of Gobwin Knob, all completely unharmed by the eruption and just sitting under a few loose rocks waiting for her, but this was a good page, so I'll let it drop.

Are we getting that last line on a tshirt at some point?

DevilDan
2009-04-23, 12:48 AM
Her speech impediment is gone...
Did that happen just now?

Her stuttering (partial aphasia) has been becoming less pronounced.

slayerx
2009-04-23, 12:51 AM
oh hell yes, uncroaked Ansom... i was totally hoping for that, but i thought my hopes were dashed when the volcano blew up...

oh i'm gonna bet that with the pliers Wanda can make an uncroaked that is fully aware and functioning; that way Ansom comes back to life fully aware of himself but as an uncroaked that is under Wanda's control... a nice little slave that she can gloat her victory over

Stegyre
2009-04-23, 12:55 AM
It was likely fixed by the five Master-Class Thinkamancers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0153.html) who undid the Link
Or perhaps it was the pliers, when she attuned. We may never know.

I find the theory that Wanda was FAQ's predictamancer an interesting one. I've long puzzled why FAQ would have a croakamancer, as that's a unit that's only useful in or near combats (where there are units to uncroak). The pacifist FAQ would have no use for such a unit.

If Wanda is (was?) the predictamancer, it would also mean she was responsible for the popping of Jillian, which just makes their relationship all the wierder.

Very real possibility Wanda had something to do with the fall of FAQ, but where does Jack fit in all of this? His loyalty to Stanley is one of the things that has always detracted from the theory that Wanda was just using the Tool for her own ends. (Not saying that isn't still possible, but Jack's loyalty implies that Stanley did something to earn it, wrt the fall of FAQ.)

I'm looking forward to a return to Jillian and co., because I wonder if, when they visit FAQ, they will find something that sheds greater light on what really happened. After all, Jillian has never returned. I wonder if that isn't where the book will end, with some startling revelation about the fall of FAQ. That's one of the last big mysteries to tie up.

MCerberus
2009-04-23, 12:56 AM
Hmm a thought occurs. If Wanda ends up being the BBEG, will Parson be her badass general or will he be fighting against her? Or is this all an incorrect way of thinking and Stanley was right about good and evil being propaganda in Erf.

At this point we cannot rule out Wanda as being an undying god of vengeance and death whose timeless quest to snuff out all life is nearly at an end.

cdrcjsn
2009-04-23, 12:56 AM
Anyone else suspects that Wanda was the Predictamancer?

We all know she's capable of casting spells outside her school...

Ah well. There goes my conspiracy theory that Maggie is secretly an agent of Charlie's and was manipulating both Wanda and Stanley.

NemFX
2009-04-23, 12:59 AM
I'm going to guess against the grain here.

I think that Wanda will do some kind of full resurrection type of spell, and give Ansom to Jillian as a form of apology.

Destichado
2009-04-23, 01:00 AM
Undead Ansom, eh?

I'm gonna bet she bangs him. ...it.

You know it's gonna happen.

Zeku
2009-04-23, 01:08 AM
There's no way that Stanley will be able to disband Wanda anymore. Something tells me that Arkentools bypass the conventional rules of the game. Imagining any outcome except battle between these two is kind of silly. Things aren't looking too great for Stanley at this point, actually.

It's also funny to see how many posters are just as unsuspecting as Parson is. Wanda is waiting for the right moment, but she is definitely going to go into full megalomaniac mode when the time is right. Any loyalties that have existed up to this point can be considered conveniences. I'll be curious to see if she's willing to let Parson live, considering he's one of the most dangerous elements in Erf.

Concerning the 'this world wished for you' line. Sure, it's profound, but on the surface it just means that he's the one who got summoned by the spell. From a human perspective, could it mean that every arbitrary logical construct is like a trap, waiting for a mind to come along and care for it, either by destroying it or building it up? I hope it doesn't just mean that reality exists externally to ourselves, because I've always found excessive attention to that fact a little irresponsible.

MalikT
2009-04-23, 01:10 AM
I've been away for a couple of weeks and what do I find when I come back home - six new erfworld comics. Most of my theories have gone to hell, now I need to work on new ones.
Wanda has became really disturbing, she seriously creeps me out now. Also, she seems to be independent now, she called Parson by his name for the first time since she summoned him.
Parson seems troubled by what he has done, but why is talking to Wanda about it. Does he hope she will say that he had no choice? Makes sense, when you commit a mass murder, you go to the most twisted person you know for justification.

Lunaya
2009-04-23, 01:10 AM
I'm going to guess against the grain here.

I think that Wanda will do some kind of full resurrection type of spell, and give Ansom to Jillian as a form of apology.
Wanda apologizing? I seem to recall her being pretty..er..unhappy with Jillian the last time they saw each other. Like I said before, she's way more likely to use an uncroaked Ansom to get back at her: "What do you think of your knight in shining armor now, Jillian?"

Come on. This is Wanda, evil incarnate, we're talking about.

DevilDan
2009-04-23, 01:13 AM
Anyone else suspects that Wanda was the Predictamancer?

That's a very old theory at this point.

elberon
2009-04-23, 01:20 AM
I liked this page. Interesting little hints to the past, and some exploration of Parson's motives, which it feels like we haven't had for some time.

"You didn't wish for this world, Parson Gotti. It wished for you."

This theory makes a surprising amount of sense!

Perhaps this is line is to Erfworld what Roschacs line is to Watchmen (the I'm not trapped in here with you, you're trapped in here with me)

Chris

BarGamer
2009-04-23, 01:20 AM
Perhaps Wanda's new toy will make the uncroaked she... uncroakes not decay. At least that's my bet for the 'pliers "super unit".

That would be rather epic. Good job reminding us that each Arkentool has their own "super unit." Uncroaking, or even full-on Resurrecting a dead unit under Wanda's control...

Geez, what is it about Wanda and her relationship with Faq's casters? First the Foolamancer, now the Predictamancer lets her city fall so that Wanda can get the Arkenpliers... I think the Hippiemancers are in on this, as well.

"It wished for you." Appropriate, considering that she was the one who cast the spell to bring him here. This was almost as good as Azula's line from Avatar: the Last Airbender.

*High level official who was planning a military coup finds himself trumped by the girl he hired to accomplish the coup. Kneels.*
"You've beaten me at my own game."
*Azula sneers.* "Don't flatter yourself. You were never even a player."

Architect
2009-04-23, 01:26 AM
"I wanted to be, like ... a field general, but without soldiers having to actually die for it."

Parson was like every armchair general. Soldiers are just pieces on the map and it's easy to sacrifice this piece for that piece. It's easy to talk about theoretical considerations and opportunity costs when they are just part of some inconsequential game. They might think that is what being the perfect strategist or tactician is all about. Did Parson really think that nobody was dying? No, I don't believe so, not at least in the sense of a game.

Parson's problem was that he was no more aware of his soldiers as being people as any other ignorant wannabe. That is, until he met and grew to like Misty and then Bogroll. The reality of it got drilled into him. Now, he doesn't want to play. (Boohoo.) Parson needs to grow up. (There's reasons why he never went farther than Kinko's. He knows it and admitted as much from the very beginning.) It might very well be his game-world, but it's not a game if you're just a piece in it.

What Parson should be considering, now that his new "reality" is hitting home, is that he has the opportunity to become a real leader. Leadership isn't merely about giving orders. It's about influencing people to accomplish goals and objectives. It means recognizing his soldiers as people and motivating them to do what has to be done, even though it means that many, most, or even all of them might sacrifice their life in doing so. It also means that he has to shoulder the pain and responsibility, because that is part of his job as a leader.

It also means that Parson has to set a personal example. For instance, Ansom was an boop-head, but he didn't ask his troops to do anything that he wasn't willing to do or order them to risk their lives and he not risk his. That's why people were willing to follow him. I hope Parson has boned up on the history of successful military leaders, because he'll either become a successful leader or just another tool as equally disposable as his own troops.

As for predictamancy and the Magic Kingdom casters, Wanda saw that he wanted to command. She chose him. She protected him. Whether Parson is "Fated" to be some sort of savior or not, it's clear that Wanda chose him, not the Magic Kingdom casters and certainly not Stanley. Others simply see an opportunity in Parson to accomplish their goals: a tool.

As for Fate, it can perhaps be argued that everyone chooses their Fate, which is why they can't escape it. It's up to Parson to decide whether he's Fated to be just a tool or whether he'll follow his own, hopefully better, vision.

Tundar
2009-04-23, 01:31 AM
Wanda is scary.
And sexy!

Spot
2009-04-23, 01:36 AM
Concerning the 'this world wished for you' line. Sure, it's profound, but on the surface it just means that he's the one who got summoned by the spell.


To me, the quote is a lot deeper than that.

Basically, Parson was looking at the situation from a false Parson-centric, and Earth-centric viewpoint.

He saw Erfworld as less-than-real, because the people and places within it seem to him to be all jokes, 20th/21st century pop culture references, and ridiculous plays on worlds... ...and also, because Parson constructed a gaming scenario that was similar to the battle for Gobwin Knob.

So, Parson assumed that Erfworld was not real, but had been some sort of wish-fulfillment provided to him, to let him live out his fantasy of being a Warlord.

Wanda is basically letting Parson in on the cold, hard truth: The universe doesn't revolve around Parson.

The Erfworld people who made the "summon perfect warlord" spell made the spell for the express purpose of searching through an infinite number of universes, until the "Perfect Warlord" for Erfoworld was found.

So... it isn't that Erfworld is an unreal, silly sort of place, where pop-culture references and puns are the backbone of the universe.... but that Parson's world is the unreal place, where someone who dreams of being a Warlord, "just happened" to have designed a scenario that precisely matched the battle he was summoned to fight.

Now Parson could argue with Wanda over which world is the "realest" one, and which world is "unreal-er"... but, seeing where he's standing, he'll obviously lose that argument.

At least... that's how I interpreted what Wanda was saying.

Architect
2009-04-23, 01:47 AM
Spot,

I agree. Game-world or not, fantasy or not, it's the reality that Parson has to deal with. As with everyone entering the "real world", the world does not revolve around him. It does not care that he no longer wants to play. It simply is. He needs to get with the program and figure out what he is going to do. If he doesn't someone is bound to make that decision for him, whether it is Wanda, Charlie, or some other Erfworlder wanting The Perfect Warlord (tm).

Doshi
2009-04-23, 01:49 AM
I don't think Wanda is going to turn into a stereotypical super villain trying to conquer the world for her own benefit. I think the key to Wanda's character may lie in the fact that she was popped in Fax, in a culture totally devoted to philosophy. The Faxians probably developed their own unique ideas about the nature and intentions of the Titans, and their true purpose in creating Erfworld. I suspect that within the context of the Faxian's premises about the nature of the world, Wanda's actions are perfectly logical and justifiable, which is why Jack supports her. Wanda's statement that Erfworld wished for Parson suggests to me that she sees herself as serving the true will of her world. If Jillian had ever bothered to pay any attention to what the other members of her culture believed, she would probably understand Wanda's motives much better than she does. The real question is, how accurate were the Faxians beliefs? If Wanda doesn't really understand the true nature of Erfworld as well as she believes she does, she's almost certain to do a great deal of damage.

BBQLord
2009-04-23, 01:53 AM
It would be sweet if an Arkentool allowed it's possessor to lead their own side (Wanda splitting off from Stanley's side). Wanda, having summoned 'the Perfect Warlord' earlier (and been given full and sole access to all the intricacies of the spell) can then ask/compel Parson to switch sides (maybe that's why she's referring to him as Parson Gotti instead of Lord Hamster). By the time Stanley got back they'd have enough force to brutally end the simpleton and take his Arkentool.

The potential for backstabbing^9 always intrigued me...

If the above remains but wishful thinking I wonder how you suppose Stanley is going to let Wanda keep the Arkenplier (as she'd been foretold).

Depending on the strength of Wanda's conviction she might have been foretold gaining the Arkentool. In order to maximize favourableness she then sold out her side (which wasn't into war or conquering) to Stanley and molded/directed his simple mind toward the goal of finding other Arkentools. If Stanley would be ineffective she'd be able to (have) summon(ed) a Perfect Warlord. If Stanley was effective she'd get the Arkentools anyway.

In fact, Wanda might have accidentily screwed her own side. It's entirely possible that she wanted to summon the Perfect Warlord for their side but they were either unwilling/unable because they were taken out so quickly. Would have been awesome if she thought to do this for the war-minded Jillian she loved even back then.


Man, I hope we do get some more backstory. Right now there are a billion different scenarios that could all be true.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-23, 01:55 AM
Very real possibility Wanda had something to do with the fall of FAQ, but where does Jack fit in all of this? His loyalty to Stanley is one of the things that has always detracted from the theory that Wanda was just using the Tool for her own ends. (Not saying that isn't still possible, but Jack's loyalty implies that Stanley did something to earn it, wrt the fall of FAQ.)
My pet theory:
that Predictamancer Wanda recruited Jack to her Quest for Destiny and used his superior veiling abilities to make a secret meeting with Stanley. We know that Predictamancers can predict the locations of units, so it would be easy to do that in the field - at which point she seduces Stanley and tells him about his "greater destiny" with the Hammer. Before she leaves she tells him how to arrange the coup and tells him to take out FAQ so that she and Jack can be captured.

Since the Predictamancer and Foolamancer were the only real defenses FAQ had, it was easy to first-strike the capitol. Wanda's Predictamancy indicated that she needed to be with Stanley in order to gain the Arkenpliers, and so she's stuck with him like glue.

Note that this theory works out OK if Wanda isn't the Predictamancer too. The Predictamancer tells Wanda of her Destiny, and Wanda figures out how to make it happen. However, during the sacking of FAQ the Predictamancer is killed (by accident, or by Destiny) which is why we haven't seen eir around.

Alternatively, the Predictamancer fled and will be appearing later in this story to tell Parson that he is the real Chosen One and what his destiny is.
I did develop this independently (note my Tin Foil Hat) but it is highly likely it has been independently created in various forms at various earlier times too.

small pumpkin m
2009-04-23, 01:56 AM
JUST
AS
plannedPREDICTAMANCIED!



On a more serious note, I find it very interesting how quickly the predictomancy theory gained in popularity, despite the early lack of evidence and multiple vocal detractors, seemingly just because the other options didn't match Wanda's displayed personality. I'm very Impressed.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-23, 01:58 AM
On a more serious note, I find it very interesting how quickly the predictomancy theory gained in popularity, despite the early lack of evidence and multiple vocal detractors, seemingly just because the other options didn't match Wanda's displayed personality. I'm very Impressed.
Also: the Law of Conservation of Detail (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLawOfConservationOfDetail?from=Main.LawOfConser vationOfDetail) was fully in effect :smallbiggrin:

Renx
2009-04-23, 02:12 AM
I'm more interested in the fact that Ansom's body didn't disappear overnight, like Sizemore said corpses do if not healed.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-04-23, 02:19 AM
I'm more interested in the fact that Ansom's body didn't disappear overnight, like Sizemore said corpses do if not healed.
It hasn't been night yet - look at all the other corpse-parts sticking out of the mountain.

Obviously wrong. What I meant to say is the Coalition's next turn (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html) hasn't started yet :smallredface:

Also, this may be my new favorite Webcomic Exchange:
Parson: I killed everybody, Wanda.
Wanda: Yes. Good job.
It replaces the Schlock Mercenary page that ends with "Mmm... Breakfast in the rain." (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20030223.html) :smallbiggrin:

Excellent writing Mr. Balder!

Mikalyaran
2009-04-23, 02:23 AM
As I read through everyones thoughts on whats going to happen next I can't help but notice how centered the ideas are on peoples personal conceptions of the philosophical questions the story has brought up. Free will specifically and whatnot. It makes it hard for me to figure out what I think imght happen next knowing how important such considerations are to this story. Every major action that is taken seems like a story a philosopher is using to explain his thoughts on some really heavy subjects. To be frank im too busy just enjoying the awesome story and wonderfulartwork to do much predicting about the future course of this story :P The past though...

Minors prediction: Stanley's mission he went on when the gobwin's croack Saline was the fall of FAQ. I also agree that Wanda was somehow involved in that though how she worked it all out and the exact whys are still a fertile topic for debate.

glissle
2009-04-23, 02:23 AM
"
What Parson should be considering, now that his new "reality" is hitting home, is that he has the opportunity to become a real leader. Leadership isn't merely about giving orders. It's about influencing people to accomplish goals and objectives.

The hardest part might be learning to manage upwards, given his bondage to a terrible boss. But he's seen Wanda's example, so he has no excuse to say that he has no control just because he has a Ruler.

factotum
2009-04-23, 02:24 AM
Going to be interesting to see how Stanley reacts to Wanda having attuned herself to the Pliers, considering he thinks himself chosen by the Titans to get all of them...

Nemo2342
2009-04-23, 02:24 AM
As interesting as the "it wished for you" line is, I am more concerned about the exchange in panel two:

Parson: This is apocalypse!
Wanda: Hardly the first.

Is she being figurative, or literal? Perhaps this is a hint as to what happened in FAQ (some kind of total annihilation when it was taken over), or is it a reference to something else?

Ptorquemada
2009-04-23, 02:26 AM
Man, it's Christmas at Ground Zero for Wanda, isn't it?

I don't know exactly what she's going to do with an uncroaked Ansom, but I know this: it's not going to be pretty (and yeah, Destichado, I fully expect there to be an "Oh, by the way: I believe you know my new boyfriend?" scene between Wanda and Jillian at some point).

(Also, damn. I sorta wish she'd just let him evaporate or whatever; one other thing I know is that this isn't going to go well for anybody, not even Wanda. Ansom is sixty minutes of bad news and an uber-uncroaked version doesn't seem likely to be any better.)

Midnight Roamer
2009-04-23, 02:29 AM
I'm more interested in the fact that Ansom's body didn't disappear overnight, like Sizemore said corpses do if not healed.

This makes me think that perhaps there are more Coalition forces left to uncroak laying around.

glissle
2009-04-23, 02:34 AM
I'm more interested in the fact that Ansom's body didn't disappear overnight, like Sizemore said corpses do if not healed.

Actually, the klog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html) said "corpses which aren't uncroaked or moved just disappear at the start of the next turn". (Emphasis added.)

So, GK may get a turn before Jetstone's turn returns and thus be able to uncroak it that way, but I'm also wondering if the RCC unwittingly enabled this uncroaking by doing some ceremony with the body. They might even have buried it, protecting it from burning up.

MuLepton
2009-04-23, 02:38 AM
Or is this all an incorrect way of thinking and Stanley was right about good and evil being propaganda in Erf.

I hope that's the case. It would keep the story far more interesting.

Mars
2009-04-23, 02:41 AM
If Wanda (Giant) does uncroak Ansom and attacks Jillian, I hope he doesn't do a Duncan Idaho (Dune Messiah).

Because I will croak if he does.

Yodimus
2009-04-23, 02:43 AM
Awwwww sheeeet! Wanda's about to do some genre deconstruction up in here!

[EDIT] Mars will it be a little death? ;p

Jeivar
2009-04-23, 02:48 AM
Oh, this is absolutely gorgeous. As ever, Wanda is chilling and and calculating. And I thought of another disturbing implication: a major part of Parson's presence is that the casters of the Magic Kingdom wanted him there. The 'summon perfect warlord' spell was in reality a plot or even trap to lure some King or Overlord into starting the War to end all Wars. It did not work out that way in our world, not precisely... but perhaps that is what the Grand Abbie and her allies have in mind.


Now THAT is an interesting theory. The more I consider the Grand Abby's words, the more it makes sense.

And add me to the list of people creeped out by this latest update. Wanda is always so calm, so thoughtful and insidious . . . and now she has what she wanted and has no reason to mask herself anymore, and we see her true face. Scary.
And it does indeed seem like Wanda was responsible for the fall of FAQ, which then makes for the almost ultimate reason why she and Jilllian will never patch things up. The ULTIMATE reason would be what she's about to do to Ansom. Whatever love Jillian might still feel for 'Mistress' will turn into seething hate, and I have a feeling we'll see a conflict between a restored FAQ and Wanda.

But . . . I've just come up with a theory of my own: Jillian somehow featured in the prophecy. That's why Wanda didn't want her to die in the dragon donut and why Jillian didn't die in the air-defense boom boom, even though by now I'm pretty convinced Wanda doesn't have any genuine feelings for the barbarian.

What do you guys think? Does Jillian somehow have a role in changing Erf forever?

Arkaim
2009-04-23, 03:26 AM
Did Wanda have a hand in the fall of Faq? At this point, I'd be surprised if she didn't. Listen carefully to what she said.

"Oh, for these I have wrecked and ruined more than you have."

Now, how many people could she have "wrecked" and "ruined" under Stanley's service? From her tone, it sounds like she did more than kill a huge amount of people. It would not be a stretch to imagine that the people of Faq were a sizable portion of those whom she has "wrecked" and "ruined".

Edit: Ansom looks so peaceful.

Lombard
2009-04-23, 03:37 AM
Haha so I wonder if this means Ansom still has a chance of coming back after all! There's got to be some sort of powerful something or other that will turn him from uncroaked to alive... right?

Devoured_Dude
2009-04-23, 03:51 AM
From a printer's perspective, 144 pages is a good number for binding. And since we're on 143 in the strip, either this comic or the next would be an ideal place for the chapter to end.

raphfrk
2009-04-23, 04:05 AM
my guess is that she is going to uncroak him into the most powerful uncroaked warlord she can. It follows that whole thing of "now you fight for the side you fought so hard against, all the while watching me wield the pliers you could never truly use".


I wonder if the pliers will allow her to raise people (i.e. restore life), rather than just uncroak them. Otherwise, he would just be a mindless shell.

Alternatively, maybe she can uncroak without the taget being a zombie. Effectively, Ansom would be reborn, but with no memory.


I found this page - especially Wanda's dialogue - weirdly disturbing. For me, this is suggesting Parson's arrival just might change Erfworld for the worse, not better.

"[This world] wished for you" sounds like his arrival is to improve things (or I guess, at least shake things up).


Okay, that answers a few questions. I had wondered how a zip like Stanley could have acquired Wanda's loyalty. Now I see he didn't - she had prophetic knowledge that she would be the Arkenplier's wielder, and she used Stanley as a (ahem) tool. Will she stay with Stanley, or does she have another agenda?


Also, if Wanda is effectively a barbarian, then maybe Parson is loyal to her rather than Stanley (since she cast the spell). When she summoned him, she told him that he had to obey Stanley's orders, maybe that was an order.

Avilan the Grey
2009-04-23, 04:07 AM
So... mmmmmmmmmmmm... Oh sorry starting to pay attention to speech bubbles now...

This is basically as expected. I think people disturbed by this page has managed to block out exactly what a GrimDark world Erfworld really is (and this includes Parson, but then remembering a show on Discovery where two modern day generals used RoTW to simulate a number of historical battles were visibly shaken at the number of necessary losses to win a battle, even though it was just 3D renderings on a screen.)

Wanda is a Croakamancher Necromancer, really, and a Battlemage at that. She is not a nice person, but she is not a pit of bottomless evil. I think all sides are very well written, I still have far more sympathies for Wanda than for Ansom or Jill.

ericgrau
2009-04-23, 04:17 AM
Well, it's confirmed, Ansom's dead. He has the X's in his eyes.

I forget, is Maggie or Sizemore a FAQ caster? If so, that'd prolly nix the Wanda betraying FAQ theory. Unless Maggie is the FAQ caster and she's in on it. Sizemore seems to have more of a conscience. Or if they aren't, it may bolster the theory.

Mars
2009-04-23, 04:21 AM
Awwwww sheeeet! Wanda's about to do some genre deconstruction up in here!

[EDIT] Mars will it be a little death? ;p

Heh, I don't know if you have read the books before, but lets just say it involved un-undead.

Crod
2009-04-23, 04:26 AM
It's dawn so Gobwin Knob's turn must have started for Wanda to uncroak Ansom. I bet Stanley will be there shortly as well.

I guess the few surviving golems and uncroaked was all it took for Gobwin Knob to not completely fall. Thus, their side are yet not barbarians.

Altima
2009-04-23, 04:31 AM
I loooooove this strip!

As for the pliars, I'm going to assume their super unit isn't a unit at all, but that it simply renders all uncroaked unable to decompose. And we do know that uncroaked have little to know cost, so a truly massive army could be raised (also allowing Parson to have expendable fodder).

It was said Faq had three casters. I still don't buy it that Wanda is a predictamancer. She may have an affinity for other magicks, but it's clearly shown that she's nowhere the level of a 'normal' caster in their own field, much less a masterclass level. The ability to sense practically any attack on an entire nation with warning enough to use Jack strikes me as the sort of ability a master class predictamancer would have.

Now I'm starting to think that Faq's predictamancer was the chess master. Jack and Wanda clearly heart Jillian, and Faq's king wasn't that pleased with her. I imagine it would only take a few little tales from the fortune teller to stretch that loyalty to its breaking point...

As for why Faq would have a necromancer, well, it was said that--apart from Jillian--their forces were a joke. Maybe they kept Wanda around so that she could uncroak a massive army in case their Foolamancer/Predictamancer duo failed them. It would also explain how Faq got wiped out so quickly if Wanda turned on them...

Sotharsyl
2009-04-23, 04:39 AM
A excelent comic with lots to think about but I couldn't stop to notice that Ansom's corpse is geting real life proportions like the people who were in Parsons presence for a long time the forum was speculating about it a while back.
Plus I can't way to see what dark knight will Ansom's armor pay homage to.

SteveD
2009-04-23, 04:46 AM
From a printer's perspective, 144 pages is a good number for binding. And since we're on 143 in the strip, either this comic or the next would be an ideal place for the chapter to end.

I think the writers said they'd be adding extra scenes or strips to the comic to fill out certain bits like the battles, so I guess it will go over 144 pages anyway.

But the story does feel as if its coming to a close now. The Battle for Gobwin Knob is over. The last big question left to answer is what will happen with Stanley's return.

Also, does it stand to reason that Jack was also being manipulated by the predictimancer? Perhaps the reason for his loyalty to Stanley is for exactly that reason; he was told that to achieve some certain end he'd have to keep the Tool alive.

hajo
2009-04-23, 05:18 AM
Minors prediction: Stanley's mission he went on when the gobwin's croack Saline was the fall of FAQ.
Unlikely - if that mission had involved conquering a city, Sizemore (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0087.html) would have told about it.

Bookkeeper@Arms
2009-04-23, 05:18 AM
I just looked back in the archives. In the beginning (single-digit pages), Erfworlders had HUGE heads, with shoulder-span and head-width matching. They looked like anime chibis or computer sprites. Now (150-or-so pages later), the Erfworlders' head/body proportions are almost human-normal. Now they could almost pass for short-yet-properly-proportioned Earth-people.

This is just probably due to the artist's style evolving. There's likely no deeper meaning.

OR IS IT?! (cue creepy music sting)

This could be because Parson's viewpoint is evolving. He was ready to dismiss the entire Erfworld as a fantasy right off. The first character I noticed that didn't have the chibi/sprite head-thing was Misty, the first Erfworlder that Parson saw die. Now it's almost all of them. Could it be that as Parson accepts Erfworld as real, the inhabitants look more real to him?

This drivel has been brought to you by ConspiracyTheory Inc. We now return you to your forum. :biggrin:

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-23, 05:23 AM
So, even in death, Ansom's plot armor is invincible!

Incidentally, about corpses- note how there are many charred and buried arms on the stairs that Wanda climbs. Look for them. It may take a while to spot them, but they are there.

So, yeah, there's a possibility that Wanda will uncroak a little more troops, with Ansom as their leader. Talk about irony*. And to add more irony, those troops will fight Stanley ... again.

I for one am rooting for Stanley. He's an ineffective villain.

EDIT:

*: I am aware that the word irony used to mean something rather different. But ever since Alanis Morissette it is used to mean rain on your wedding day etc. So there.

VariaVespasa
2009-04-23, 05:24 AM
Well Ansoms corpse is still around and he's about to be uncroaked in whatever special fashion the pliers can do. So maybe the fans WILL see Scarlett again too... :P After all, 2 warlords are better than 1...

The only question is whether the pliers make the undead permanent, or theyre still temporary but more powerful in some fashion, for example the way that 3.5 D+D makes an undead version of a person more powerful that the original (except for that whole pesky turning thing) by just addiing a template to the originals character sheet.


I guess the few surviving golems and uncroaked was all it took for Gobwin Knob to not completely fall. Thus, their side are yet not barbarians.

Why do people keep saying that? Its an absolutely normal mechanic in EVERY wargame I know of that all is needed for a city to not fall to the enemy is for the original owner to have been the last one to have units (capable of holding a city) in it. The city can be completely empty of troops the entire game and still be your city, until and unless the enemy physically occupies it. GK did not fall NOT because they had units left in it, per se; it didnt fall because the enemy never had control of it (sometimes defined as a lack of defending units, sometimes defined as a certain ratio of attackers to defenders, depending on the game system). If the last enemy unit and the last defending unit had killed each other simultaneously leaving the city vacant of both attacker and defender then the defender would retain full ownership and control.

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-23, 05:29 AM
Well Ansoms corpse is still around and he's about to be uncroaked in whatever special fashion the pliers can do. So maybe the fans WILL see Scarlett again too... :P After all, 2 warlords are better than 1...

Yep, I am slightly hoping for that, sadly.

I say sadly because truth be told, until I see what the Pliers can do, zombie-Scarlett doesn't look so good as Phoenix-Scarlett reborn from the ashes. The former would have even less character development than before.

For crying out loud, she wasn't even wearing a name badge on that red shirt!

Dhavaer
2009-04-23, 05:32 AM
Perhaps Wanda, instead of planning of taunting Jillian with Uncroaked Ansom, is planning on using him as a drawcard? She knows Jillian loves her, and loved Ansom, so surely she couldn't resist having both of them instead of having to choose, right? Jillian won't see it that way, of course, but Wanda might be the type to think that way.

Avilan the Grey
2009-04-23, 05:37 AM
OR IS IT?! (cue creepy music sting)

This could be because Parson's viewpoint is evolving. He was ready to dismiss the entire Erfworld as a fantasy right off. The first character I noticed that didn't have the chibi/sprite head-thing was Misty, the first Erfworlder that Parson saw die. Now it's almost all of them. Could it be that as Parson accepts Erfworld as real, the inhabitants look more real to him?

This drivel has been brought to you by ConspiracyTheory Inc. We now return you to your forum. :biggrin:

Actually I thought the exact same thing. The change in style seems so deliberate that it mush have some meaning; I too guessed that it is because he gets more and more involved in the world, and maybe also because the world is more and more affected by him.

teratorn
2009-04-23, 05:39 AM
I forget, is Maggie or Sizemore a FAQ caster?

Sizemore is from the Plaid tribe, so he was popped in Stanley's side. We don't know Jillian's tribe, we do know Wanda's a Croatan. She may be from Faq, or she could have been hired by Banhammer in the magic kingdom after her side was destroyed.

Who knows, she might have conviced the Croatans to go into war against Jetstone to get the pliers and everyone except for her got killed. There seems to be a backstory between her and Ansom. He took something from her and I'm not sure she was talking about Jillian.

Oh, and it doesn't surprise me she knew where to dig for Ansom so easily, she probably can feel all the dead units in that particular hex (samething for the pliers). Why isn't he charred? Well, he fell near the tower, and when that collapsed it covered him.

I still hope to see Bogroll regenerating when GK's turn starts.

factotum
2009-04-23, 05:46 AM
"Oh, for these I have wrecked and ruined more than you have."

Now, how many people could she have "wrecked" and "ruined" under Stanley's service?

Considering Stanley used to have, what, eleven cities, and had been reduced to only one by the time they called Parson in, a heck of a lot! For all we know Wanda has been secretly working against Stanley in order to manoeuvre everyone into a situation where Ansom (with the Arkenpliers) would be assaulting Gobwin Knob directly...

Oslecamo
2009-04-23, 05:51 AM
Perhaps Wanda, instead of planning of taunting Jillian with Uncroaked Ansom, is planning on using him as a drawcard? She knows Jillian loves her, and loved Ansom, so surely she couldn't resist having both of them instead of having to choose, right? Jillian won't see it that way, of course, but Wanda might be the type to think that way.

Perhaps it's all of those reasons at the same time and more. Considering that a uncroacked's power is directly proportional to the power of the unit from wich it was created, Ansom is definetely the guy to uncroack this turn as he was the most powerfull member of the coalition. Not the smartest, but hey, zombies don't need brains anyway, right? Wanda's killing 3 birds with one stone!

1-Ansom was a very strong warlord with a fat leadership bonus. And Hamster's out of warlords. Zomby Ansom will provide them with a powerfull frontline leader whitout needing to train a new warlord from scratch.

2-Mind screw the other factions. The moral blow of seeing one of their mightiest heros now ride to battle against them will certainly breack many wills. Wanda will be sending a clear message of "Try to stand on our path, and this is what happens to you!"

3-Mind screw Jillian. Will she be able to attack her former lover? Perhaps Wanda convinces her that she can bring Ansom back to life, but only if Jillian becomes her doll again and performs a series of deeds.

factotum:Hmm that's an interesting theory. But I think Wanda didn't pull all the strings. She very probably gave Stanley his power delusions so he would go to war with all those factions and make Ansom come to get him, but I doubt she was planning to lose ten cities and be in a 25 to 1 numerical disadvantage. She almost bited more that she could chew.

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-23, 05:51 AM
I still hope to see Bogroll regenerating when GK's turn starts.

Which is actually quite likely. Many people have commented that "Regeneration" looks like a "Chekhov's gun".

Then again, supposedly this comic was dark and edgy, so there'll probably be a limit to the resurrections- say, just one, Ansom, for maximum fan annoyance :smalltongue: (What was that wrong with the guy anyway to get all the hate?)

Avilan the Grey
2009-04-23, 05:56 AM
(weird double post, sorry)

Crod
2009-04-23, 05:56 AM
The only question is whether the pliers make the undead permanent, or theyre still temporary but more powerful in some fashion, for example the way that 3.5 D+D makes an undead version of a person more powerful that the original (except for that whole pesky turning thing) by just addiing a template to the originals character sheet.


Ohh.. I wonder what would pop. Do I smell a Death Knight? Or Croak Knight might be more correct. Probably stretching it, but we can always cross our fingers.



Why do people keep saying that? Its an absolutely normal mechanic in EVERY wargame I know of that all is needed for a city to not fall to the enemy is for the original owner to have been the last one to have units (capable of holding a city) in it. The city can be completely empty of troops the entire game and still be your city, until and unless the enemy physically occupies it. GK did not fall NOT because they had units left in it, per se; it didnt fall because the enemy never had control of it (sometimes defined as a lack of defending units, sometimes defined as a certain ratio of attackers to defenders, depending on the game system). If the last enemy unit and the last defending unit had killed each other simultaneously leaving the city vacant of both attacker and defender then the defender would retain full ownership and control.

I stand corrected.

raphfrk
2009-04-23, 06:00 AM
Wanda's killing 3 birds with one stone!


Also, if the pliers allows her to raise the dead, then they would have access to all of Ansom's knowledge about Jetstone's and the alliance's defenses.

They could also ask him how they are likely to react to the current situation

Bookkeeper@Arms
2009-04-23, 06:03 AM
Which is actually quite likely. Many people have commented that "Regeneration" looks like a "Chekhov's gun".

YAY! Bogroll might come back! I liked Bogroll!

BOING! It just occurred to me ... everyone heals at the beginning of the day's first turn! What does a unit need regeneration for if everyone heals first thing in the morning?!

On the other hand ... he was confirmed as definitely croaked.

What is the game's definition of regeneration, anyway? It might mean the ability to regrow limbs or heal some type of damage that other units can't.

As to why everyone hates Ansom ... he's got that phony-smarmy thing going on. He feels like a phony. I see him talking about the nobility of rule, and the first thing I think is "He probably tortures kittens for fun". (But then again, I have this deep-seated psychological complex that makes me distrust all authority figures. YMMV.)

raphfrk
2009-04-23, 06:05 AM
BOING! It just occurred to me ... everyone heals at the beginning of the day's first turn! What does a unit need regeneration for if everyone heals first thing in the morning?!


It could allow healing during a turn.

Also, they said to burn the body, that may be required to kill someone who has regeneration

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-23, 06:22 AM
As to why everyone hates Ansom ... he's got that phony-smarmy thing going on. He feels like a phony. I see him talking about the nobility of rule, and the first thing I think is "He probably tortures kittens for fun". (But then again, I have this deep-seated psychological complex that makes me distrust all authority figures. YMMV.)

Your mileage may vary indeed.

Phony was not the vibe I got. Arrogance, yes, since Ansom is after all a Royal of Erfworld. Didn't we like our heroes flawed these days? Well, I guess it depends on the flaw. You boop just one goat ...

Finn Solomon
2009-04-23, 06:48 AM
Wanda is sexy. And brilliant. And that makes it even sexier.

kreszantas
2009-04-23, 06:51 AM
Things are working out as I thought from the fact that Wanda was (is) the predictamancer knew all about all of the things that needed to happen to obtain the final goal. Wanda has not switched sides yet, she could yet in the future, but she is no position to do so right this minute. This is where Stanley could split her off, let her retake Faq and let the war begin for the other remaining tools.

I have several times gone back to the pages around 12-16 where Parson is in his room and he goes over his gaming theories with his buddies. The biggest difference between here and Erf is those are just games. Erf it is real and is permanent (unless you have a newly found set of attuned pliers)

Parson is for sure a Hippymancer in the making, so Janis was not too far off in calling him one, however his warlord status got in the way.:smalltongue:

In the prior strip where we saw Wanda by herself with her eyes closed I bet she was doing some predictamancy ahead of time to know where to dig and know exactly how long to get from one place to another so to make it during the turn. BTW I think it is GK's turn now due to everyone else's turn order getting reset due to the Alliance break up.

Thank you Rob and Jami for your excellent work and I bet your now feeling a small sense of accomplishment, as Wanda has with her finding what she KNEW she was supposed to have, as small piece of success.

Lamech
2009-04-23, 07:16 AM
Lets see here if Wanda is in fact a traitor, does she need an "enemy" unit in the hex to "turn". If she could knock Stanley out in one shot it is possible that she could brain-wash him or force Maggie to do it for her.

And I was right about the predictamancer being not loyal to Faq. Probably. Also I have another question, if the casters were treacherous what does that say about the message Jillian got?

slb
2009-04-23, 07:16 AM
I'm pretty sure she can't backstab or abandon Stanley, even if she wanted to.

I dont know if it's her intent to do so, but actualy she can backstab/abandon him at will.

Unlike most of erfworlders, she's not under a loyalty spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0105.html).

MythicFox
2009-04-23, 07:47 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is actually the first time that Parson and Ansom have actually been in each others' direct physical presence. Sure, they talked via thinkamancy, but I don't think they've actually been in the same room (or equivalent outside-of-room amount of physical space) before.

Kreistor
2009-04-23, 07:51 AM
Natural Thinkamancy isn't a spell: it's inherent in all creatures. Wanda's Loyalty is low, because she is either a captured unit or merely working for a different side than popped her. Even under Banhammer, she was not the same Tribe as Jillian, so she wouldn't have had high Loyalty to him, either. That low Loyalty is what allows her to work agaist her Ruler. It is typical of casters in her position to have a Loyalty spell cast on her: her position is one of "captured unit". BTW, that's from one of the Klogs: you can read through them to find it.

slayerx
2009-04-23, 07:53 AM
BOING! It just occurred to me ... everyone heals at the beginning of the day's first turn! What does a unit need regeneration for if everyone heals first thing in the morning?!

First, it is useful during combat as the unit would heal as it it is damaged... think about it like fighting trolls in DnD

second, Units are healed first thing in the morning, however if the unit is damaged during the first turn of combat, then that damage will remain going into the next turn... regeneration would allow the unit to heal up so that they might have full hp during the next turn (as opposed to remaining damaged till the next morning), and be ready for another round of combat...

if for instance the dwagons had regeneration, then Jillian and the archons would have not finished off all those dwagons that were over the water as they would have regained much of their hp


I dont know if it's her intent to do so, but actualy she can backstab/abandon him at will.

Unlike most of erfworlders, she's not under a loyalty spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0105.html).

I believe Jillian was talking about an unnatural loyalty spell, like something a thinkamancer might be able to cast upon a unit. This is unlike the natural magic that erfworld units are subjected to such as Loyalty, Duty, and obedience. So no, Wanda is still like most erfoworlds and subject to those 3 elements

DigoDragon
2009-04-23, 07:59 AM
Poor Parson, now truely knowing the hell that is war. :smallsmile: I'd like to see how this affects his future leadership.

Kreistor
2009-04-23, 08:02 AM
regeneration would allow the unit to heal up so that they might have full hp during the next turn (as opposed to remaining damaged till the next morning), and be ready for another round of combat...

Or even faster. The concept of healing per second or minute is not inappropriate for a real time combat system like Erfworld. Bogroll may have been healing frm the fall even as he was being burned. Remember that in DnD, Regeneration is a certain number of hit points per 6 seconds, bringing a unit back to full in seconds to minutes.

joosy
2009-04-23, 08:08 AM
Excellent strip!

So.. Wanda is attuned, speech is back to normal (possibly a result of the Thinkamancy unravelling in the Magic Kingdom) and is busy preparing to exact a fitting revenge on those she claims has wronged her (Ansom, et. al.)

Parson is still doubting his place and the morality of his actions.

Wanda reveals that she has been following the prophesy of the FAQ Predictamancer all along. She IS duty bound to Stanley however but the question is if that will continue after the Plier Attenuation.

Turns: It is still early morning. I believe Transylvito's turn is next and THEN GK. Not sure if Charlie gets a turn or which order it is or if it even really matters. The RCC allies are probably too busy assessing and licking their respective wounds to take any action.

It has been established that Wanda can uncroak out of turn. I believe the problem with ending the turn before she mass-animated the RCC in the tunnels was more an issue of getting them deployed on the walls BEFORE the end of the turn rather than her casting the Trioxin spell. I could be wrong but we will see if that is explained by PClips in the forums or in the strip.

Iain
2009-04-23, 08:13 AM
Sadly, I don't think Bogroll's coming back.
We were shown him being burned, and burning the corpse is a traditional way to stop trolls (and perhaps Twolls) from regenerating from death.

thevorpalbunny
2009-04-23, 08:33 AM
I think tis has probably been said before, but I suspect that the Pliers give the Croakamancer the power to create Uncroaked with all their original abilities. Knowledge, maybe. But I suspect an Uncroaked Ansom will still be just as strong a leader and will stay fresh. And an Uncroaked caster will still be a caster.

SteveMB
2009-04-23, 08:45 AM
From a printer's perspective, 144 pages is a good number for binding. And since we're on 143 in the strip, either this comic or the next would be an ideal place for the chapter to end.

We're already past that, considering that the volume will have some unique content in addition to reprints of the pages posted here.

Oslecamo
2009-04-23, 08:48 AM
Or even faster. The concept of healing per second or minute is not inappropriate for a real time combat system like Erfworld. Bogroll may have been healing frm the fall even as he was being burned. Remember that in DnD, Regeneration is a certain number of hit points per 6 seconds, bringing a unit back to full in seconds to minutes.

Remember also that in D&D, damage dealt by a certain element can't be regenerated. Fire kills trolls because a troll can't recover from damage dealt with fire with just his regeneration. If this was D&D, if nobody put out Bogroll, he would simply be dealt full fire damage and die.

Think of WH40K. There are several units wich can regenerate from lethal blows after going down(necrons in particular), but if that unit is struck by certain weapons, it can't come back at all.

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-23, 08:49 AM
I just realised the potential for a lame joke/reference.

"Ansom was dead. He got better."

Matuse
2009-04-23, 08:49 AM
Here's my question. Did Wanda say:

I wished FOR you.

Or did she say:

I wished for YOU.

The difference in emphasis completely changes the meaning of the sentence. I'm inclined to think that it was #2, that she brought in Parson specifically to further her own agenda, and saw that he was the one who could do it. However, #1 is definitely an option too.

I wonder if this spell to summon the perfect warlord is...not a spell to summon a perfect warlord, but to summon whatever the summoner wants.

-Edit: I see now that the sentence is "It" wished, not "I". However, the difference in emphasis is still relevant.

HandofShadows
2009-04-23, 08:56 AM
Wow. Dropping a few bombs in this stip. Wanda is certainly going all out, but for what goal? It certainly seems that Wanda and Janis are on the same page. And if Ansom didn't wreck Faq why does she hate him so much? Because he got the Arkenpliers and delayed the prediction?

I get the feeling most everyones theories are going to get tossed out the window before this is all through. Sneaky, sneaky creators of Erfworld. :) It would be no huge surpeise right now for TV and Jillain to show up in Faq and find Banhammer still running the place. :smallbiggrin:

Pointyleaf
2009-04-23, 09:06 AM
Wow, good strip. Reminds me of Wanda's comment to Ansom, "It's less than what you took from me", and makes me wonder if Wanda is so much of an evil megolomaniac that she thinks having the pliers is worth slaughtering thousands of people.. even her own people.

jami
2009-04-23, 09:14 AM
This has nothing to do with anything, but @Destichado, I colored the Iron Man cover in your avatar! It's one of my favorite Iron Man covers evah.

Okay, sorry to derail everything. Feel free to ignore me. And thanks for all the comments. Wanda has certainly become one of our favorite characters to work with. And she terrifies both Rob and me.

Calmness
2009-04-23, 09:33 AM
Does this mean Charlie's Archons are dead? I thought maybe they could have survived because of their flight abilities.

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-23, 09:34 AM
It certainly seems that Wanda and Janis are on the same page.

Yes, just like "nectar" and "necromancy".


Does this mean Charlie's Archons are dead? I thought maybe they could have survived because of their flight abilities.

Much as I am saddened to agree with the "She's Dead Jim" and "YOURE STUPID" clubs, they are all dead. Several archons died on screen actually. Not just the archons are dead, but as the past several strips have kept on labouring the point, EVERYONE is.

The only remaining question is how dead. Presumably Wanda will want to uncroak more archon toys.

raphfrk
2009-04-23, 09:43 AM
Does this mean Charlie's Archons are dead? I thought maybe they could have survived because of their flight abilities.

They were set on fire by the heat from the eruption. You can see them falling like meteors in the third panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0150.html).

Ofc, this calls into question why Ansom wasn't also chared.

Nekomata
2009-04-23, 09:44 AM
Nice page. Moving plot and all. But somehow it feels a bit out of character for me.
He wanted a war without deaths? Where's the guy who feasts on gwiffons and eats marbits for breakfast :smallwink:? Where's the guy who kills half the siege for starters?
And what's with Wanda suddenly explaining things? She didn't seem to be too keen on sharing before, even when it was important.
Of course it can all be explained (for example, Parson is only now seeing the results of his "work" in person, and Wanda could be thinking she has just won the game, so she's free to offer a couple of hints before ascending, plus the stress has just gone away and stuff) but it just feels odd to me.


More people now seem to be getting as creeped out by Wanda as I've been for years. I find it slightly odd that Wanda seems to be able to find anything and everything she needs in the ruins of Gobwin Knob, all completely unharmed by the eruption and just sitting under a few loose rocks waiting for her, but this was a good page, so I'll let it drop.
Well, she was in the link managing the eruption.
If sizemore could push valuables to the surface where he can find them easily, and I'm guessing remember a couple of these key locations (he just picks up the gem, like he knows it's there), I guess Wanda could do similar to a couple valuables.

Winston
2009-04-23, 09:46 AM
I just wanted to throw out a crazy theory that occurred to me after reading this strip. Now there has been a lot of talk that Wanda's comment means that she might have been behind the fall of Faq. However could it also mean (either in addition to or instead of the fall of Faq) that she was behind the death of Saline IV.

I know that Stanley is everyone's favorite overlord to hate, but does anyone really think he is sneaky enough to arrange a coup d'etat? We already knw that Wanda is a master at manipulating Stanley. What is more, if Wanda was after war with Ansom so that she could capture the arkenpliers then replacing your side's King with a non-royal overlord seems like a great way to get on Ansom's bad side.

Now one major issue is that it is not clear if Faq fell before or after Saline was croaked. However we do know that Stanley won a lot of battles for Saline which is why he was promoted to heir, and one of those battles could have been Faq. Also, I may be crazy but doesn't the rider of the green dragon in panel 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0087.html) kinda look like Wanda. This also raises the question of whether Stanley even knew about the plot against Saline and was in on it or whether Wanda did it all on her own.

Just a thought.

Grunthos
2009-04-23, 09:55 AM
Oh, I do truly, truly hope Yakov Smirnoff reads this comic someday.

"In Erfworld, silly games play you!"

SteveMB
2009-04-23, 09:57 AM
Ofc, this calls into question why Ansom wasn't also chared.

He fell at the foot of the tower. The tower was then brought down in a pile of rubble. Ergo, his body was somewhat sheltered.

Getting back to half-baked speculation, this makes me wonder how the prediction of Faq's fall and the prediction of Wanda acquiring/attuning to the Arkenpliers might be linked....

teratorn
2009-04-23, 10:15 AM
Wanda has certainly become one of our favorite characters to work with. And she terrifies both Rob and me.

Wow, now I'm not sure if I want to know Wanda's backstory.

the_tick_rules
2009-04-23, 10:49 AM
Ahh so when they're real(ish) it's not so fun is it Parson. I guess he was expecting it to be just like a D&D game. Wanda's getting spooky, is anyone else smelling a potential coup? Plus her new outfit is smokin hot.

DoctorJest
2009-04-23, 11:10 AM
Haha so I wonder if this means Ansom still has a chance of coming back after all! There's got to be some sort of powerful something or other that will turn him from uncroaked to alive... right?

You need to come to grips with Ansom being dead. 'E's passed on! E's no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If Wanda 'adn't dug 'im up, 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!

THIS IS AN EX-WARLORD!

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-23, 11:29 AM
You need to come to grips with Ansom being dead. 'E's passed on! E's no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If Wanda 'adn't dug 'im up, 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!

THIS IS AN EX-WARLORD!

Ha ahaha ha! But you sir are mistaken in this case. Ansom is about to become an ex-ex-warlord.

Unlike someone else *grumble*.

SinsI
2009-04-23, 11:35 AM
New comic is up.

Is Wanda going to uncroak Ansom? Is she even more scary than before?
What are you guys talking about? Last two strips were an illusion cast onto Hamster to test him.

Pointyleaf
2009-04-23, 11:54 AM
Perhaps Wanda, instead of planning of taunting Jillian with Uncroaked Ansom, is planning on using him as a drawcard? She knows Jillian loves her, and loved Ansom, so surely she couldn't resist having both of them instead of having to choose, right? Jillian won't see it that way, of course, but Wanda might be the type to think that way.

Ahh.. "A Rose for Jillian".

A. Hamster
2009-04-23, 11:56 AM
Ha ahaha ha! But you sir are mistaken in this case. Ansom is about to become an ex-ex-warlord.

Unlike someone else *grumble*.Let it go, sir, let it go. It will just bring you more grief. If it is any consolation, Scarlett will never be hungry again.

Seriously, it is a missed opportunity. As was pointed out in earlier threads, surviving such a disaster would really change a person. Showing how, and what actions result from it would have made a good counterpoint to Parson's character development.

DevilDan
2009-04-23, 12:19 PM
They were set on fire by the heat from the eruption. You can see them falling like meteors in the third panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0150.html).

Ofc, this calls into question why Ansom wasn't also chared.

His body wasn't charred because he was already dead from melee/falling damage? It is a game-like world after all...

So, does the fact that Ansom's body is still there mean that it's dusk? Or could this be dawn, shortly before the official start of the day. Wanda just has to move Ansom's body for it to not disappear, right?

Maybe we can have a Word of Titan from Rob, officially dubbing Red as Scarlett.

Lamech
2009-04-23, 12:37 PM
Half-baked speculation! Bodies heal back to the condition they were croaked as. So if you get stabbed in the brain (and die), and thrown into a fire, but then get moved or transfered to another side you'll heal back to stabbed in the brain condition.

Fjolnir
2009-04-23, 12:50 PM
According to rob this is JUST before dawn when these events are happening, which is why none of the bodies are gone yet, Wanda needs to move fast to raise ansom or else she won't get the chance...

To the "natural thinkamancy wouldn't let Wanda betray Stanley camp" part of this is ONLY true if Lord Stanley the Tool, wielder of the Arkenhammer considers the holy artifacts of his gods less valuable than several cities, a point which is debatable at this time.

Zombie Nixon
2009-04-23, 01:26 PM
I think Wanda's comment means that she was behind Stanley's quest for the other arkentools.

El_Chupachichis
2009-04-23, 01:42 PM
"It wished for You."

Let me go out on a limb, here.

I suspect that the Erf universe is even more centered around war and the gaming of war than what was previously thought. There may not even be death beyond that which occurs in war. What if your only death was to fall in battle, with rare Plot-point exceptions? Perhaps these wars have been ongoing with no peace for ages, or even looping much like a Matrix world, with minor variations on each iteration? Has anyone any evidence that there is death outside violence in this universe?

Perhaps some characters are more aware of this. Such as characters stuck in a side for ages without any conflict to engage in, a dystopia-utopia where their skills are not utilized for what the universe designed them for, which leaves them ages to ponder existance. If a Predictamancer had eons worth of turns to ponder the future, it could be more likely they'd make deep inroads into the future, and identify scenarios that would terminate their current level of existence and change the rules of the universe.

Note the focus on Ansom's corpse. Is it possible that the universe's wish was to end the cycle of conflict that many shrugged off as the Titan's will? That will was exemplified in Ansom. The first Death -- among many small deaths -- that will ultimately turn the universal rules on their ear?

Perhaps Wanda - directly or indirectly - learned of this possibility, this wish, and decided to be a part of it? She may have the opinion that the cycle can end with her on top.

T-O-E
2009-04-23, 01:57 PM
I always just assumed that the "special mission" Sizemore talked about was the Faq trip.

Glome
2009-04-23, 02:29 PM
Natural Thinkamancy isn't a spell: it's inherent in all creatures. Wanda's Loyalty is low, because she is either a captured unit or merely working for a different side than popped her. Even under Banhammer, she was not the same Tribe as Jillian, so she wouldn't have had high Loyalty to him, either. That low Loyalty is what allows her to work agaist her Ruler. It is typical of casters in her position to have a Loyalty spell cast on her: her position is one of "captured unit". BTW, that's from one of the Klogs: you can read through them to find it.

I don't know why anyone thinks Wanda was from anywhere other than Faq. She has the same physical traits (irises) as the people of Faq, and Croatan is probably the name of the Faq tribe, just like the tribe which controls Gobwin Knob is the plaid. Plus, given the peaceful nature of Faq, it is unlikely that they would have somehow captured a croakamancer. Also, if Jillian was really from a different tribe then Wanda, they could have just named her former tribe on the cast page instead of purposefully leaving it open.

I also don't think Wanda was a predictamancer (which is a bit redundant , 'mancer basically translates to oracle anyway). She knows from predictamancing what her final goal was and roughly what she would have to do to get there, but she seemed ignorant of most of details, which would most likely be the case if she was working on what the predictamancers told her in Faq. Plus, I'm not too sure a caster can change specialties, I think if they are popped a certain 'mancer, they stay that way even if they are good at another speciality and even prefer casting from such.

Of course, if the predicamancer from Faq was any good, he/she would have escaped to the magic kingdom. From there, she probably helped create the spell which summoned Parson. So the predictamancer may still be an invisible hand pulling the strings on an even larger scale then the strings which Wanda is pulling. But it is at least in realm of possibility that Wanda is the predictamancer, but I am just not seeing any real clues that that is the case yet.

Pointyleaf
2009-04-23, 02:53 PM
Corpses disappear at the beginning of the next turn - Ansom's corpse will go away at the beginning of the RCC's next turn (presumably Jetstone's), not dawn, as stated here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html).

Count me in the "Wanda is still on Stanley's side" camp. She never seems obsessed with her own power, just with croakamancy and personal vendettas.. I think she'll be quite happy working with Stanley as he continues his crusade. But, on the other hand, we don't know much about her motivations, compared to Sizemore or Stanley.

And, to me, just creating non-decaying or self-aware units seems a little weak for the pliers, when compared to archons or dragons. I'm thinking it's got to be something a bit more powerful or subtle.

factotum
2009-04-23, 03:04 PM
Count me in the "Wanda is still on Stanley's side" camp. She never seems obsessed with her own power, just with croakamancy and personal vendettas.

Yet we have her, in her own words, admitting that she's "wrecked and ruined" more than Parson ever did in order to get her hands on the Arkenpliers. Considering the amount of devastation Parson just inflicted, that's a heck of a lot of destruction for someone to undertake who isn't obsessed with the power of the Arkenpliers!

Glome
2009-04-23, 03:16 PM
Yet we have her, in her own words, admitting that she's "wrecked and ruined" more than Parson ever did in order to get her hands on the Arkenpliers. Considering the amount of devastation Parson just inflicted, that's a heck of a lot of destruction for someone to undertake who isn't obsessed with the power of the Arkenpliers!

Of course if the arkenpliers are really a croakamancy artifact, what you just said isn't mutually exclusive to what Pointyleaf mentioned. She may be obsessed with getting the pliers as part of her obsession with croakamancy.

BarGamer
2009-04-23, 03:19 PM
And, to me, just creating non-decaying or self-aware units seems a little weak for the pliers, when compared to archons or dragons. I'm thinking it's got to be something a bit more powerful or subtle.

Considering that Uncroaked ex-Warlords can level up, that's still pretty good. Also, Ansom is a Royal. He can level up faster, and has slightly stronger stats. (Klog 9) Nevertheless, I still think that attuning to the Arkenpliers has something better attached to it.

Kilbia
2009-04-23, 03:28 PM
PS. Also, this is the first time Wanda has called Parson by his name. What could this mean? I get the impression that she did this because she sees herself as his equal or superior now. Perhaps it's a sign that she will split onto her own now as she doesn't need him anymore.

Lord Hamster was the cunning ruthless warlord that Parson Gotti always thought he wanted to be...until he got his wish. Looking at Parson's lines in this particular episode, he is really being hit hard by the idea that THIS IS REAL and REAL PEOPLE ARE DYING because of the choices he's made.

For me, Wanda's use of Parson's real name is a nice reflection of his return to a similar sort of uncertainty he had when he first arrived in Erfworld. Mind you, I don't think that was her intention at all - it's just a pretty coincidence. I think Wanda's choice of using his name reflected a disdain of Stanley the Plaid that she's no longer afraid to express. Remember, it was Stanley who asked "what kind of name is that?" and insisted that Parson go by a pseudonym.

T-O-E
2009-04-23, 03:28 PM
Can uncroak casters? Take control of enemy uncroaked?

Oslecamo
2009-04-23, 03:47 PM
Yet we have her, in her own words, admitting that she's "wrecked and ruined" more than Parson ever did in order to get her hands on the Arkenpliers. Considering the amount of devastation Parson just inflicted, that's a heck of a lot of destruction for someone to undertake who isn't obsessed with the power of the Arkenpliers!

Ten cities were lost and several sides attacked before the battle for Gobwin Knob. An angry mob coalition raised to crush Stanley the worm at all costs.

And for all we know, all this time Wanda has been raising hordes of uncroackeds to send to the fray while mind raping her love and carefully manipulating Stanley to delusions of grandeur, almost destroying him.

Indeed Hamster was probably just the final point in her quest to get the arkenpliers. Like the other guy said, what's some more thousands corpses below the fallen of a hundred other battles triggered by Wanda?

The only good thing is that if Wanda is telling this to Hamster it's because she trusts him. Wich means Parson now has one of the strongest characters of Efworld as his ally. Not bad Hamster not bad. Now the really war starts!

(this is looking more and more like some computer RTS campaign. New mission, start with just an handfull of troops, your heros, basic city and a gold gem mine right next to you).

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-04-23, 03:54 PM
I believe that the point of her using his given name is to signify that the she is speaking to him person to person, as opposed to looking at him as a title and rank. I fully expect the next page to feature an Ansom Dark Knight.

Simons Mith
2009-04-23, 04:04 PM
Considering that Uncroaked ex-Warlords can level up, that's still pretty good. Also, Ansom is a Royal. He can level up faster, and has slightly stronger stats. (Klog 9) Nevertheless, I still think that attuning to the Arkenpliers has something better attached to it.

Well, the Arkenhammer turned walnuts into pigeons; maybe the 'Pliers will ... convert gwiffons into delicious waffles or something ...

Kreistor
2009-04-23, 05:42 PM
Considering that Uncroaked ex-Warlords can level up, that's still pretty good. Also, Ansom is a Royal. He can level up faster, and has slightly stronger stats. (Klog 9) Nevertheless, I still think that attuning to the Arkenpliers has something better attached to it.

I don't doubt that a lot of time and effort will go into this uncroaking. Whatever effect the Pliers may have had, Ansom would have been one of the most powerful uncroaked a master croakamancer could make. With the Pliers? This may be one of the most powerful Uncroaked creatures to ever walk the face of Erfworld. For all the reasons you state -- Royal, Chief Warlord, Heir.

dr pepper
2009-04-23, 06:09 PM
Perhaps the pliers turn dead commanders into nazgul, and dead casters into liches. Then anyone facing GK's army would have to save vs fear before they could do anything.

Fez
2009-04-23, 06:27 PM
I hadn't posted on this thread because at this point I'm just having so much fun reading and enjoying the way the story is coming together and things are being built up that I don't really have that much impetus to try and make predictions.

One of my few curiosities is the oft asked question, whether the shifting in art style for Erfers in terms of size and proportions was a matter of stylistic development or story related. I actually am assuming that there will be an IC explanation for it, if only because in book form the change will be much more pronounced over a single reading and not make as much sense as artistic refinement, so whether it was some IC reason for it might be useful to 'explain' it within the context of the story (whether it started as artistic refinement or not).

Willing to illuminate us Jamie? Perty please?

Suicide Junkie
2009-04-23, 06:42 PM
Nobody seems to have commented on the way Wanda essentially said:
The world should have been careful what it wished for... Bad things are going to happen to it now.

T-O-E
2009-04-23, 07:03 PM
Nobody seems to have commented on the way Wanda essentially said:
The world should have been careful what it wished for... Bad things are going to happen to it now.

I didn't notice that... Makes sense.

Alces
2009-04-23, 07:07 PM
Ha ahaha ha! But you sir are mistaken in this case. Ansom is about to become an ex-ex-warlord.

Unlike someone else *grumble*.

I share your sentiments. On an entirely different note, Parson no longer seems as bothered by stairs as he was just after being called to Erf.

MCerberus
2009-04-23, 07:10 PM
Hmm it looks like Parson has, indeed, lost about 6 inches to one foot on erf's population. Either it's an art upgrade or he's becoming more erfer and less earthling.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-04-23, 07:14 PM
The only good thing is that if Wanda is telling this to Hamster it's because she trusts him. Wich means Parson now has one of the strongest characters of Efworld as his ally.More like she has seen into his mind, as she refers to several times in this strip, and knows that Parson is no rival for her. Parson has no real desire to own an Archentool, or to build his personal power. Wanda does. And two people with completely separate ambitions can work very well together.

Alternatively, she has seen into his mind, and doesn't think he is worthy of any worry on her part. He is still fairly lost on Erf, and she is one of the closest friends he has. She prolly knows he won't attack her or hinder her plans.
On an entirely different note, Parson no longer seems as bothered by stairs as he was just after being called to Erf.Haven't you learned by now that Parson has no real weaknesses? He is a Mary Sue, which does not make the story a poor one. But there can be no denying that Parson fits the Mary Sue trope very, very well.

A. Hamster
2009-04-23, 07:17 PM
Perhaps the pliers turn dead commanders into nazgul, and dead casters into liches. Then anyone facing GK's army would have to save vs fear before they could do anything.That seems appropriate for an epic-level artifact like the Arkenpliers. It would be cool to see Ansom, Waith Lord (Wraith Lord). Being a Royal, perhaps he'll have a ghostly crown floating over his head like the Lord of the Nazgul. If Wanda uncroaks enough Warlords, perhaps she'll have a band of Plierswaiths (the name can use some work) ...

Count me among the forumites who find the current Wanda sexy but scary. It seems like if you were to date her, you'd wake up naked in a hotel bathtub full of ice, and your kidneys would be missing. (Of course, Wanda probably will not waste material so you'd wake up as Uncroaked.)

Midnight Roamer
2009-04-23, 07:22 PM
I don't know why anyone thinks Wanda was from anywhere other than Faq.

Because...


Plus, given the peaceful nature of Faq, it is unlikely that they would have somehow captured a croakamancer.

...it is equally unlikely that FAQ would have popped a croakamancer.


Plus, I'm not too sure a caster can change specialties, I think if they are popped a certain 'mancer, they stay that way even if they are good at another speciality and even prefer casting from such.

I agree, which makes it quite unlikely that a peaceful, isolated nation would have a use for a croakamancer. As some have said already, units may not even die except for in battle. Since it is unlikely that they would have a use for her and pop her, and you've already said that she probably didn't change to a croakamancer from something else, how can she be native to FAQ and not from somewhere else? I don't necessarily believe that, I'm just answering the question of why some people may. The conclusion fits the facts that you just laid out.

So now you know why some people embrace the notion that she was not popped there. :smallsmile:

T-O-E
2009-04-23, 07:40 PM
They probably can't control what subclass their casters are popped as.

ComradeTaro
2009-04-23, 07:43 PM
Perhaps you pop a caster and what kind of caster you get is luck of the draw. A croakamancer stuck in a country with no real call for croakamancy would be a good reason for Wanda to develop skills in various unrelated branches of magic and it also accounts for other things such as her friendship with Jillian (both didn't fit in with the rest of the hermit kingdom of Faq) and her personality.

I see I was beaten to the punch by the previous poster...

DevilDan
2009-04-23, 08:27 PM
They probably can't control what subclass their casters are popped as.

That's been mentioned before. It always struck me as a bit suspect.

seans23
2009-04-23, 08:45 PM
Perhaps you pop a caster and what kind of caster you get is luck of the draw.

I doubt it, since everyone seems to have a thinkamancer.

Thray
2009-04-23, 08:49 PM
They probably can't control what subclass their casters are popped as.

Then why does everyone have a Thinkamancer? The only casters we've seen that don't belong to Stanley have been Thinkamancers, which definitely suggests a degree of control in which casters you keep.

Besides, if FAQ didn't like Wanda, they could just refuse to pay her upkeep and pop a new caster.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Goshen
2009-04-23, 09:30 PM
Wanda is basically letting Parson in on the cold, hard truth: The universe doesn't revolve around Parson.

QFT, Spot. In whatever form it takes, learning you aren't the center of it all is a grow-you-up lesson. IMHO, everybody needs it, but it sure ain't fun at the time.

Here's another interesting disconnect with Parson: He's absolutely brilliant, but he seemed to be only barely getting by in his "real" life. Mainly, he wasn't all that happy, even with his passion for gaming. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0016.html)

But when he entered Erfworld, he dealt with the challenges being decisive and effective. At first, his not taking Erfworld seriously must've been a help to him, but now that's gone. I don't think he's going to curl up, find a mountain, and play Kinko's all day. :smalltongue: I think his experiences in Erfworld are going to make him very effective at anything he wants to do later on.

Maybe his next "Holy Boop" moment will be as it sinks in that there could be no end in sight for his being trapped on Erfworld. Maybe Charlie is trapped too and is only trying to make enough schmuckers to get home. (But I doubt it.)

Finally, Wanda is scaring the boop out of me! :smalleek:

katyn
2009-04-23, 09:34 PM
The general impression that I get from King Banhammer is a player that's far too obsessed with the long term objectives of the game rather than concentrating on the here and now.

Imagine a game such as Civ4. The player in charge is not concerned with building units or upgrading them. Instead all he cares about is going for the cultural victory condition. To stay alive he attempts to avoid the other players as much as possible. What units he has are just there to maintain a cheap garrison and if he happens to spawn a Great Engineer then rather than attempt to rush a wonder, he'll instead save it for a golden age just so he can avoid having other players invade his city to capture the wonder.

If Wanda was popped into Faq, she was probably there as a worst case scenario contingency plan to save the capital or she was popped to aid Banhammer's philosophical discussions with relevance to death.

BurntOfferings
2009-04-23, 09:37 PM
I think tis has probably been said before, but I suspect that the Pliers give the Croakamancer the power to create Uncroaked with all their original abilities. Knowledge, maybe. But I suspect an Uncroaked Ansom will still be just as strong a leader and will stay fresh. And an Uncroaked caster will still be a caster.

That's an interesting idea. I'm reminded of a certain croaked lookamancer; a lookamancer with a name; a lookamancer whose body could still be around, since it was moved.

Spot
2009-04-23, 10:50 PM
Here's another interesting disconnect with Parson: He's absolutely brilliant, but he seemed to be only barely getting by in his "real" life. Mainly, he wasn't all that happy, even with his passion for gaming. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0016.html)

But when he entered Erfworld, he dealt with the challenges being decisive and effective. At first, his not taking Erfworld seriously must've been a help to him, but now that's gone. I don't think he's going to curl up, find a mountain, and play Kinko's all day. :smalltongue: I think his experiences in Erfworld are going to make him very effective at anything he wants to do later on.



On Earth, he lacked anything he recognized as an appropriately-challenging channel for his skills, so his talents went unused.

Now that he's starting to wake up, and is realizing that (a) Erfworld isn't a dream or a fantasy but an actual world, and (b) that Parson is, in fact, the perfect warlord to end all warlords.

Turning Erfworld from a zero-sum never-ending wargame into a decent place for decent people (such as Sizemore) to live in... now that is a challenge worthy of Parson's skills.

BarGamer
2009-04-23, 11:31 PM
I don't doubt that a lot of time and effort will go into this uncroaking. Whatever effect the Pliers may have had, Ansom would have been one of the most powerful uncroaked a master croakamancer could make. With the Pliers? This may be one of the most powerful Uncroaked creatures to ever walk the face of Erfworld. For all the reasons you state -- Royal, Chief Warlord, Heir.

Maybe it'd be an instant, full-effectiveness Uncroaking.

Imgran
2009-04-24, 12:33 AM
If any caster got resurrection as part of their skillset it'd be a Croakamancer.

I doubt he comes all the way back. Heck, I don't even know whether Ansom is going to be any kind of useful unit or not, but I think he'll have his mind -- his real one -- because I think Wanda wants Ansom to see how badly he's failed. And then she might even just return him to the erf for all I know or for all she cared.

Kilkrazy
2009-04-24, 01:42 AM
Then why does everyone have a Thinkamancer? The only casters we've seen that don't belong to Stanley have been Thinkamancers, which definitely suggests a degree of control in which casters you keep.

Besides, if FAQ didn't like Wanda, they could just refuse to pay her upkeep and pop a new caster.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Maybe to create a mancer, the ruler gives the build order, the money is deducted from the treasury, then a D100 is rolled against a table which could look like this:

1-50 = Thinkamancer
51-100 = Something else

The preponderance of Thinamancers on the Coalition side would be luck. Otherwise, there could be cultural factors involved if there is a choice. For instance, Ansom seemed dead set against Croakamancy, so Jetstone would not choose to pop a Croakamancer.

R. Malcovitch
2009-04-24, 01:50 AM
Maybe the kind of 'mancer you can pop is determined by some resource. IE if you have, say, a volcano you can pop Dirtamancers, and Thinkamancers don't have any prereqs.

BarGamer
2009-04-24, 02:02 AM
Maybe when you create a side, a Thinkamancer is auto-popped? Would kinda be in line with the Natural Thinkamancy stuff on units...

EDIT: Or maybe just sides that have a Thinkamancer are 'worthy' of playing with the big boys and girls. Thus, answering why we haven't seen any Thinkamancers with the other members of the Coalition. Just Vinny's and Charlie's.

Kreistor
2009-04-24, 02:03 AM
Maybe it'd be an instant, full-effectiveness Uncroaking.

Well, I am not going to speculate on what the actual power is, but this I doubt. You're describing a convenience, not power. Stanley gets powerful units using the Hammer, but he has to Tame them, which if the word is accurately chosen, is a long drawn out affair. It might be synonymous with Subdue, from old DnD 1.0 which permitted capturing dragons, but that would be a dangerous combat. It's nice, but not anywhere near equivalent.

factotum
2009-04-24, 02:17 AM
Then why does everyone have a Thinkamancer? The only casters we've seen that don't belong to Stanley have been Thinkamancers, which definitely suggests a degree of control in which casters you keep.


Conversely, way back in strip 8 Ansom complained that his forward intelligence was poor because the Coalition had no Lookamancers. If they could pop any type of caster they wanted, why would that be the case?

I'm also thinking that maybe casters aren't popped at all--that they have to be supplied by the Magic Kingdom. That might explain why there's a relative shortage of one type of caster over another.

T-O-E
2009-04-24, 02:18 AM
If any caster got resurrection as part of their skillset it'd be a Croakamancer.

Or healomancers.

Kreistor
2009-04-24, 02:36 AM
I'm also thinking that maybe casters aren't popped at all--that they have to be supplied by the Magic Kingdom. That might explain why there's a relative shortage of one type of caster over another.

That runs into problems with Loyalty (they would all have low Loyalty as mercenaries), and the capturing of Casters. If this were true, captured Casters would need to be returned to MK, and coerced Casters wouldn't exist, because the MK would put its foot down and demand that slaves go free, or they stop providing services to Sides that treat Casters poorly.

Arkaim
2009-04-24, 02:36 AM
Or healomancers.
Or healomancers linked up with croakamancers.

R. Malcovitch
2009-04-24, 02:44 AM
Speculation time!

The pliars' signature unit is obviously some sort of uncroaked, and there are currently limits on uncroaked effectiveness. Namely lack of free will and finite lifespan. I'm thinking that the pliars will enable Wanda to create some sort of Nazgul super-uncroaked that doesn't have either limitation. Ansom will retain his personality, but be loyal to Wanda either resentfully or willingly. The former would essentially make him her slave, obeying only through force. This I doubt. More likely is the latter option, in which Ansom's psyche is warped to include the same basic personality but unquestioningly loyal to Wanda.

This "brainwashing" option would cause some incredibly heavy implications in the (inevitable as the f*ing tides) confrontation between Ansom and Jillian. She might either snap and walk into his arms thinking he's alive (mental breakdown) upon which he kills her and she can't comprehend what just happened, leaving her to die. Basically the scene in about half of all zombie movies where a protagonist sees an infected loved one. Another option would be Jillian tears Uncroaked Ansom apart and swears vengeance on Wanda (right now I would put their relationship as strained but salvageable) which would probably cause Jillian's capture, prompting a dramatic dungeon scene.


However, considering Book 2 has "narrative distance" from Book 1 maybe none of this will happen at all.

teratorn
2009-04-24, 03:24 AM
Corpses disappear at the beginning of the next turn - Ansom's corpse will go away at the beginning of the RCC's next turn (presumably Jetstone's), not dawn, as stated here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html).

Yes, but RCC is gone. Ansom will disappear at dawn.

Oslecamo
2009-04-24, 04:09 AM
That runs into problems with Loyalty (they would all have low Loyalty as mercenaries), and the capturing of Casters. If this were true, captured Casters would need to be returned to MK, and coerced Casters wouldn't exist, because the MK would put its foot down and demand that slaves go free, or they stop providing services to Sides that treat Casters poorly.

Who says mercenaries always have low loyalties? Jillian had a fantastic loyalty for Ansom, to the point she managed to snap out of Wanda's mind rape. Perhaps they have low loyalty in the begining, but if treated well they become more and more loyal. Wanda didn't fully trust Hamster untill very recently after all, but now she's even telling him her power hungry plans.

As for capturing-hate from MK, I believe it's so hard to hire a mancer from the MK in the first place that it's better to go out there and capture your own mancers than waiting for one to become available for "legal" purchase, even if it means atracting some wrath from the MK. And hey, if they get paid, they're really not slaves right?

We're however sure that if mancers were sent to the magic kindgom and then their older masters died then they would become barbarians, aka independent units. Where they probably would offer their services to anyone else interested.

raphfrk
2009-04-24, 04:19 AM
Or healomancers linked up with croakamancers.

Good plan.

I wonder if anyone actually tried it. Healing and uncroaking would appear to be opposites to a certain degree.

Given that casters are rare and linking up can kill the casters. It would be reasonable that all possible combinations haven't been checked.

Also, if only some sides have thinkamancers, and most have only 2-3 casters, then it wouldn't be possible to check some combinations, even if they wanted to.

DoctorJest
2009-04-24, 04:20 AM
According to rob this is JUST before dawn when these events are happening, which is why none of the bodies are gone yet, Wanda needs to move fast to raise ansom or else she won't get the chance...

To the "natural thinkamancy wouldn't let Wanda betray Stanley camp" part of this is ONLY true if Lord Stanley the Tool, wielder of the Arkenhammer considers the holy artifacts of his gods less valuable than several cities, a point which is debatable at this time.

We also know Wanda is under no loyalty spells to Stanley.

joosy
2009-04-24, 04:57 AM
Then why does everyone have a Thinkamancer? !

Because the storyline requires a quick way for each side to talk to each other. Since they don't have telephones they all have to have a Thinkamancer or at least Thinkamancy scrolls.

i.e. the plot requires it.

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-24, 05:00 AM
i.e. the plot requires it.

Or good game design.

Fjolnir
2009-04-24, 05:19 AM
We also know Wanda is under no loyalty spells to Stanley.

"natural thinkamancy" (Loyalty, Duty, Obedience) is NOT a spell, no matter how many times people say that "Wanda is under no loyalty spells to Stanley", the fact remains that ALL units are bound with natural thinkamancy to some degree, a good example of this is parson just before the trimancer link is sparked off CAN'T send Wanda, Maggie, and Sizemore away until he tries this maneuver. Since her Loyalty isn't very low, we must assume that she CAN'T easily betray Stanley unless she can somehow justify it to herself (similar to Jillian at the Dwagons, only not verbally.)

shamelessmerc
2009-04-24, 07:10 AM
As interesting as the "it wished for you" line is, I am more concerned about the exchange in panel two:

Parson: This is apocalypse!
Wanda: Hardly the first.

Is she being figurative, or literal? Perhaps this is a hint as to what happened in FAQ (some kind of total annihilation when it was taken over), or is it a reference to something else?


Or just beeing massivly cynical?

It's the same thing I would say in the same situation (I resort to sarcasm and cynicism in moments of stress. I'm told I'm very eloquent and hurtful)

shamelessmerc
2009-04-24, 07:15 AM
Did Wanda have a hand in the fall of Faq? At this point, I'd be surprised if she didn't. Listen carefully to what she said.

"Oh, for these I have wrecked and ruined more than you have."

Now, how many people could she have "wrecked" and "ruined" under Stanley's service? From her tone, it sounds like she did more than kill a huge amount of people. It would not be a stretch to imagine that the people of Faq were a sizable portion of those whom she has "wrecked" and "ruined".

Edit: Ansom looks so peaceful.

Unless she manipulated the situation so that Stan lost all his cities, bringing GK to it's knees all so she could arrange for Parson's summoning....

Gez
2009-04-24, 07:51 AM
Haven't you learned by now that Parson has no real weaknesses? He is a Mary Sue, which does not make the story a poor one. But there can be no denying that Parson fits the Mary Sue trope very, very well.

Not really. He has weaknesses, including apathy and unhealthy habits. It's just that he's placed in a situation where his weaknesses do not matter much and his strengths on the other hand get to play in full. Even then, he needs help.

If you want a Mary Sue in that comic, I give you Wanda. She's an immoral monster, but everyone loves her, even those who have a mindset completely opposite hers (Sizemore for instance). She's smart and sexy, naturally gifted at every type of magic, even those she doesn't care about. She is also a keen social manipulator. And finally, she has a troubled and mysterious past. And a lesbian lover. Can hardly heap more sueness on that without ruining the character.

The reasons stairs didn't bother Parson that much this time? First, there's a lot less of them now (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0145.html). Secondly, a repeat of the joke on Parson's state of unfitness would be more distracting that constructive at this point of the plot. Finally, he had been wearing armor all day long for the last few days now, and as everyone who ever played Morrowind or Oblivion knows, this increases your Endurance rating.

joosy
2009-04-24, 08:34 AM
We also know Wanda is under no loyalty spells to Stanley.

To me this means that Wanda is not a CAPTURED unit - standard natural Duty/Loyalty restrictions still apply.

A. Hamster
2009-04-24, 10:34 AM
Regarding the popping of Heirs and Casters, there is a mechanic in Civilization IV that would give similar results, basically limited but not full control over what pops.

In Civ IV, the designers introduced Great People, who represent the historical figures that have a major influence on a culture or civilization. (e.g. Leonardo da Vinci is a Great Engineer, William Shakespeare a Great Artist.)

To get a given Great Person, you have to build Wonders (like the Pyramids or Hanging Gardens of Babylon) or appropriate buildings that will let you then turn an ordinary Citizen in a city into a Specialist. (Building a Temple lets you turn one Citizen into a Priest, a Library permits you to have two Scientists.) These generate Great People points (GPP), and when you accumulate enough GPP in a given city, a Great Person is born.

Now, in Civ IV, one can pretty much control what type of Great Person pops if you specialize the city (if you only run Scientist specialists and build Science Wonders, that's a 100% chance of getting a Great Scientist when the conditions are fulfilled). However, there are certain buildings/wonders that will speed the collection Great Person points that one usually wants in your Great People city, and they usually give Great Artist points, so one might end up having a 96% chance of getting a Great Scientist, but a 4% of getting a Great Artist.

As this applies to Erfworld, Jillian says that instead of Banhammer getting his Philosopher-Prince, he got her (Jillian). That implies partial but not complete control over what pops. Presumably Banhammer would have been running as many appropriate Specialists as poosible to get the type of Heir he wanted, but game requirements might have required he use a few specialists or buildings that were not what he wanted. (Since a Heir is also a military leader, perhaps a Barracks is required to build Heirs, and that gives Fighter points, not Philosopher points.) So Banhammer had something like a 98% Philosopher 2% Berserker chance for his Heir, and the game engine rolled "99", and so Jillian popped.

This can be applied to casters as well. In Civ IV, certain buildings and Specialists are gained earlier than others (mostly the religious buildings/wonders). That means your first Great Person is usually a Great Prophet. If Thinkamancy buildings are part of the first few builds permitted to a new city, then there may be a naturally occuring bias towards Thinkamancers, since all cities have to have basic buildings A, B, and C just to function. It is only later that an Erfworld city is allowed to specialize and then try running different specialists to get Dirtamancers, Croakmancers, etcetera, and you'd still have the underlying Thinkamancer points base to throw a random factor into what pops.

Hatman
2009-04-24, 11:20 AM
i liked Wanda before she got fingers...

Gez
2009-04-24, 11:35 AM
i liked Wanda before she got fingers...

So you never liked her (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0002.html), right?

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-24, 11:41 AM
If you want a Mary Sue in that comic, I give you Wanda. She's an immoral monster, but everyone loves her, even those who have a mindset completely opposite hers (Sizemore for instance). She's smart and sexy, naturally gifted at every type of magic, even those she doesn't care about. She is also a keen social manipulator. And finally, she has a troubled and mysterious past. And a lesbian lover. Can hardly heap more sueness on that without ruining the character.

Everybody loves Wanda? Nobody loves Wanda, execpt Jillian*. And Jillian loved Ansom more than her.
Sizemore respects her, and fears her. A lot. It's pretty clear who's master and who's underling. She only allows him to act sometimes as if he was an equal because he was for a long time the only intelligent person around and because he's a skilled caster.
Parson also respects her, with a little fear. But he don't love or even like her.
Stanley likes and desires for her, but he doesn't love her.
If you think about it, it's pretty sad.

*okay, the fas and creators love her, but that's not relevant for Sueness. "Mary Sue", my donkey.

Doug Lampert
2009-04-24, 11:48 AM
From a printer's perspective, 144 pages is a good number for binding. And since we're on 143 in the strip, either this comic or the next would be an ideal place for the chapter to end.

Copyright notice. Forward, Preface, Afterward, publication notes and something about the next book and where their website is, bonus strips.

If they stop here and go for an even multiple of 16 interior pages it will be a 160 page book.

Matuse
2009-04-24, 11:50 AM
Haven't you learned by now that Parson has no real weaknesses? He is a Mary Sue, which does not make the story a poor one. But there can be no denying that Parson fits the Mary Sue trope very, very well.

I can deny it. Parson isn't the least bit Mary Sue. He doesn't fit ANY of the qualifications.

fendrin
2009-04-24, 11:51 AM
I'm also thinking that maybe casters aren't popped at all--that they have to be supplied by the Magic Kingdom. That might explain why there's a relative shortage of one type of caster over another.

Except that Sizemore is the same Tribe as Stanley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html) and more significantly says that he was popped under Saline IV (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0086.html).

Not 'bought', 'hired', or 'captured'.

ishnar
2009-04-24, 12:43 PM
"natural thinkamancy" (Loyalty, Duty, Obedience) is NOT a spell, no matter how many times people say that "Wanda is under no loyalty spells to Stanley", the fact remains that ALL units are bound with natural thinkamancy to some degree, a good example of this is parson just before the trimancer link is sparked off CAN'T send Wanda, Maggie, and Sizemore away until he tries this maneuver. Since her Loyalty isn't very low, we must assume that she CAN'T easily betray Stanley unless she can somehow justify it to herself (similar to Jillian at the Dwagons, only not verbally.)

Erm, I think it's a but much to say that Parson could not do something just because Wanda rationalized it that way. A lot of assumptions are being made about the compulsion being mental, but everything so far indicates that duty is a PHYSICAL compulsion.

Stanley ordered that Parson laugh at his jokes. The result was not that Parson suddenly found the jokes funny (mental) but that his body convulsed in laughter even when he found the jokes not funny (physical)

Parson didn't order them through due to his own reasons, duty had nothing to do with it. If Parson had tried to order them through, but kept biting his tongue, then we could conclude that duty was forcing Parson's hand.

Wanda assumes Parson wouldn't order them through due to duty because Wanda was projecting.

DevilDan
2009-04-24, 01:10 PM
Erm, I think it's a but much to say that Parson could not do something just because Wanda rationalized it that way. A lot of assumptions are being made about the compulsion being mental, but everything so far indicates that duty is a PHYSICAL compulsion.

Stanley ordered that Parson laugh at his jokes. The result was not that Parson suddenly found the jokes funny (mental) but that his body convulsed in laughter even when he found the jokes not funny (physical)

Wasn't he literally ordered to laugh rather than being ordered to find Stanley's jokes funny? The order to not speak didn't prevent him from wanting to speak.

Kilkrazy
2009-04-24, 01:49 PM
The way I read it, Parson made himself laugh at Stanley's jokes because he had been ordered to, as a kind of mockery.

Mysteryman64
2009-04-24, 02:15 PM
I'm pretty sure I remember reading that uncroaked can be mass raised, but they're weaker because of it. Maybe the pliers would allows mass raising, but without the weaker uncroaked that would normally be the side effect.

3000+ full strength uncroaked would seem to me a pretty good power.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-04-24, 02:42 PM
I suspect that the Erf universe is even more centered around war and the gaming of war than what was previously thought. There may not even be death beyond that which occurs in war. What if your only death was to fall in battle, with rare Plot-point exceptions? Perhaps these wars have been ongoing with no peace for ages, or even looping much like a Matrix world, with minor variations on each iteration? Has anyone any evidence that there is death outside violence in this universe?I poked around a bit but could not find the strip were my (oft faulty) memory tells me there was some discussion of death by old age. I think that units simply decay after they have been around for a great length of time, similar to people dying of old age in our world.

Gez
2009-04-24, 02:55 PM
The only instance of "decay" I remember in the comic is the TV units' song when they're preparing for their dance fight with Stanley, and it might simply have been used for the rhyme.

So...

Architect
2009-04-24, 03:06 PM
Wanda is a gifted caster, but she is not a tactical genius. If she was intending to supplant Stanley and/or start her own side, she would need a Chief Warlord. As with all evil overlords, a competent and ambitious lieutenant is a betrayal waiting to happen. Parson is a tactical genius, The Perfect Warlord (tm), but he isn't ambitious. As with his original life, he didn't care enough about anything to change it. Therefore, he is the perfect warlord for her.

Oslecamo
2009-04-24, 03:14 PM
The only instance of "decay" I remember in the comic is the TV units' song when they're preparing for their dance fight with Stanley, and it might simply have been used for the rhyme.

So...

Go look again. I don't remember the exact strips but:

1-When Stanley is showing the troops to Hamster and they arrive at the uncroacked warlords.

2-When Wanda mass-zombifies, and Hamster explains that by doing that the units will last just a few turns.

Kreistor
2009-04-24, 03:28 PM
Os, the discussion is about the natural death of living units. The uncroaked information is irrelevant.

Oglokoog
2009-04-24, 03:28 PM
Long time reader, first time poster.

Well, I'd like my first post to be somewhat more wordy, but this'll have to do: Erfworld is getting better with each page!

Oslecamo
2009-04-24, 04:02 PM
Os, the discussion is about the natural death of living units. The uncroaked information is irrelevant.

Vampires are an advanced form of uncroacked, with free will and stuff. They decay, and if living units don't die of old age then it kinda sucks being a vampire in Efworld, yet there's a whole nation of them. So there's probably an "age limit" to living units for balance purposes. King Saline looked pretty old, being a long time ruler.

Jillian on the other hand is a relatively recent unit, and thus looks all young and energetic. Ansom being still a heir is also still a pretty boy.

I believe living units age as uncroacked decay. But they normally end up killed by something before their time is up.

ishnar
2009-04-24, 04:47 PM
Vampires are an advanced form of uncroacked, with free will and stuff. They decay, and if living units don't die of old age then it kinda sucks being a vampire in Efworld, yet there's a whole nation of them. So there's probably an "age limit" to living units for balance purposes. King Saline looked pretty old, being a long time ruler.


Unfortunately, your Vampire assumptions are suspect. There are many different lores concerning vampires. Vampirism is a disease, Vamprisim is a form of undeath, vampirism is a genetic disposition, vampirism is an arcane power, vampirism is just a cosmetic defect.

Then what Vampirism involves is different between lores. Vampires feed on blood. Vampires feed on life energy. Vampires eat normal food. Etc, etc..

While in some games leader units age (Total War) regular units do not. So your governor ages, gets assassinated, or gets sick and dies. But regular units only die in battle or are disbanded.

There being an entire nation of Vampires most likely indicates that Vampirism is a genetic disposition.

galdon
2009-04-24, 05:01 PM
hm, with GK nearly out of units, and no leadership units left, Parson's friends might instead of being rivals like i remember a lot of people theorizing when it was first said they would be showing up in erfworld, Parson might find he needs help and have his friends summoned, i would assume it'd be easier to find four individuals in one world than it is to find one 'perfect' person in all worlds

ishnar
2009-04-24, 05:15 PM
hm, with GK nearly out of units, and no leadership units left, Parson's friends might instead of being rivals like i remember a lot of people theorizing when it was first said they would be showing up in erfworld, Parson might find he needs help and have his friends summoned, i would assume it'd be easier to find four individuals in one world than it is to find one 'perfect' person in all worlds

Yes. A "friend" that finds himself trapped in a nearly hopeless situation in another universe that he probably will never return from summons me to join the fun.

That would be the end of my friendship.

Hatu
2009-04-24, 05:41 PM
Everybody loves Wanda? Nobody loves Wanda, execpt Jillian*. And Jillian loved Ansom more than her.
Sizemore respects her, and fears her. A lot. It's pretty clear who's master and who's underling. She only allows him to act sometimes as if he was an equal because he was for a long time the only intelligent person around and because he's a skilled caster.
Parson also respects her, with a little fear. But he don't love or even like her.
Stanley likes and desires for her, but he doesn't love her.
If you think about it, it's pretty sad.


Well, of the characters on GK's side, Stanley and Sizemore have both expressed affection in their own way for Wanda. Bogroll certainly liked her before he croaked. Parson hadn't had much time with her, but he certainly hasn't expressed any negative feelings about her. I think a charge of Mary Sueness is a bit extreme, but not far from the mark.

The real question is whether we in the audience are supposed to love her or loathe her. I loathe her, but I'm not sure if that's the intended reaction. It's certainly been the minority opinion thus far.

This was a busy strip, and very well done. But I'm not looking forward to watching poor Ansom as Wanda's zombie toy. Ansom was always poorly treated in this strip, and now even his ignominious end gets worse. :-(

Though this strip continues my questions on how the hell turn sequences work in Erfworld. Apparently you can travel both to and from the Magic Kingdom on someone else's turn, since Ansom's body hasn't been garbage collected yet. I'm so confused.

-H

SteveMB
2009-04-24, 05:45 PM
Well, of the characters on GK's side, Stanley and Sizemore have both expressed affection in their own way for Wanda. Bogroll certainly liked her before he croaked. Parson hadn't had much time with her, but he certainly hasn't expressed any negative feelings about her. I think a charge of Mary Sueness is a bit extreme, but not far from the mark.

I think it's quite far from the mark, considering how one of her errors in judgment ("She will not break this spell. She cannot." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html)) totally blew up in her face. That sort of thing simply does not happen to a "Mary Sue" character, ever.


The real question is whether we in the audience are supposed to love her or loathe her. I loathe her, but I'm not sure if that's the intended reaction. It's certainly been the minority opinion thus far.

Well, the authors have repeatedly described her as "scary".

Suicide Junkie
2009-04-24, 05:51 PM
Vampires are an advanced form of uncroacked, with free will and stuff.Why do you think that? They sure act like just another bunch of normal units, (such as elves or humans). No reason to make up wacky mechanics stuff.

Also, note that Ansom doesn't didn't despise them as abominations.

Gez
2009-04-24, 06:03 PM
Vampires are an advanced form of uncroacked
This has yet been to be confirmed for the Erfworld setting. Heck, the Transylvitans have not even be named vampires. Earlier exposition on uncroaked said they were mindless and without free will, two things that don't really apply to the likes of Vinny. Further, Ansom calls uncroaked abominations and carried an artifact that destroyed them instantly, but had Vinny has his most trusted friend. And finally, exposition on sides said that only humans had nations with overlords and cities, creatures such as elfs and gobwins don't.

All those elements lead me to believe that vampires are a tribe of vampire-like humans, not uncroaked.


I think it's quite far from the mark, considering how one of her errors in judgment ("She will not break this spell. She cannot." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html)) totally blew up in her face. That sort of thing simply does not happen to a "Mary Sue" character, ever.
It does, sometime, if the storytelling makes it look like it's not really the Mary Sue's fault and if the blowback seems disproportionate so as to incite sympathy and compassion rather than lingering on how it's justified or deserved.

That said I should clarify. When I said that Wanda was as Mary Sue as one could go without ruining the character, that meant she wasn't really a Mary Sue, just that I feel that from the cast, she's the one the closest to being one. If she was truly one, then it would have ruined the character, wouldn't it?

Kreistor
2009-04-24, 07:06 PM
Oh, guys, it's a lot easier than that...

Prove that Vampires from Transylvito are uncroaked by a Croakamancer, Oslecamo.

MadScientistMat
2009-04-24, 08:10 PM
And what's with Wanda suddenly explaining things? She didn't seem to be too keen on sharing before, even when it was important.
Of course it can all be explained (for example, Parson is only now seeing the results of his "work" in person, and Wanda could be thinking she has just won the game, so she's free to offer a couple of hints before ascending, plus the stress has just gone away and stuff) but it just feels odd to me.

I think Wanda is trying to comfort or reassure Parson that he hasn't been a bad guy - and that makes this strip disturbing on a different level, because it shows how far apart Parson's morality is from Erfworld's.

An Earth general who is in a hopeless situation would surrender to save his troops. For an Erf general, though, that's ordering his troops to pointless deaths. So when Parson blows up his own troops with a multi-megaton explosion, he feels guilty for causing so much death... but in Erfworld's morality, he's a great hero. Because he couldn't have saved his troops in any method, his only choices were, "Surrender and die," "fight it out and die," or "rocks fall, everyone dies." Under the circumstances, killing his own men was the right choice... but Parson can't accept that.

I suspect Wanda's comment that it was "hardly the first" apocalypse was no metaphor at all. If Erfworld is a game verse that has had several sequels, each game ending with some great cataclysm or apocalyptic battle, another apocalypse is nothing new. The way game sequel timelines often run, probably happens every 20 to 50 years. What passes for morality in strategy games is often simply rewarding you for accomplishing your mission, for the number of enemies defeated, for how good a minion you have been to your Overlord.

Erfworld has taken this to its logical conclusion - a great hero in Erfworld would be a great sociopath on Earth. I take back what I said earlier... it is getting darker.

Bucket
2009-04-24, 08:25 PM
Wanda has been hurt - bad - by Jillian, and the way her spell over Jillian suffered such a catastrophic failure. Ansom is / was / is the root cause of that failure. Now she has the long-sought-after Arkenpliers, and - without even having to research their capabilities, here is what she'd likely do.

Hell hath no fury... She uncroaks her main rival, having him on hand for the eventual reunion with Jillian.

In a moment of high-drama, in revenge for "..what you (Ansom) took from me" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0135.html) - she gives the diabolocal lecture-ette, and touches undead Ansom with the Arkenpliers. ** POOF **

Dust.

Oslecamo
2009-04-24, 09:02 PM
Prove that Vampires from Transylvito are uncroaked by a Croakamancer, Oslecamo.

Why do I have to prove it? Who said the only way to get uncroackeds if by a croackmancer creating them?

From what we've seen almost any kind of unit can be poped with money.

Mancers however can create certain kind of units whitout spending money, making it much more cost-effecient.

My hypothesis is mainly based on the transyvilto dance-fighting song. From there we I see that:

1-Like uncroackeds, transyvilto units decay.
2-Vinnie and the other warlords evolved from doombats wich leveled up enough, just like Stanley become a dragon riding artifact swinging overlord all the way from a simple pikemen.


Why Ansom doesn't despise Vinnie
Because Vinnie is a royal. Ansom is a super elitist, and for him someone who's a royal must surely be a cool guy. Plus Vinnie's not half rotten. Ansom is the kind of person who judges others by their exterior and titles. Plus it's very probable that Ansom's hate for Wanda's worck comes from the fact that Wanda made Ansom's elite troops fight against him. So even if they were shiny and perfurmed, Ansom would still call them abominations, because they would be fighting against him, a royal chosen by the titans.

Why does Vinnie has a free will?
Nobody said that all uncroackeds have no will. Like the other guy said vampires are normally considered special among the nonliving. Yes vampires are nonliving. The whole vampires are actually diseased people is very recent and really not part of fantastic fantasy.


Why non-living guys can hold a side:
GK stayed on Stanley's control with nothing but a bunch of uncroackeds and rock golems in there. Point.

OverWilliam
2009-04-24, 09:03 PM
I am curious as to the 'Master Class' that we've seen mentioned. Can Master Class be applied to any level of caster like a template, enhancing their abilities over a normal caster of the same level? Or does Master Class just mean they've leveled enough times to have the title? A third option, is Master Class just in-game terminology for the highest level a unit can get? Is this restricted to just Casters or can there be Master Class infantry, if they live to level enough times?

Goshen
2009-04-24, 09:14 PM
Yes. A "friend" that finds himself trapped in a nearly hopeless situation in another universe that he probably will never return from summons me to join the fun.

That would be the end of my friendship.
Hah! True 'nuff. Also, his "friends" didn't seem too upset when he suddenly disappeared. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0016.html)

Thray
2009-04-24, 09:21 PM
I am curious as to the 'Master Class' that we've seen mentioned. Can Master Class be applied to any level of caster like a template, enhancing their abilities over a normal caster of the same level? Or does Master Class just mean they've leveled enough times to have the title? A third option, is Master Class just in-game terminology for the highest level a unit can get? Is this restricted to just Casters or can there be Master Class infantry, if they live to level enough times?

Master Class does not equal max level-Sizemore was always master class but he went up two levels in the battle. I'd guess master class is equivalent to having access to the highest level spells.

Kreistor
2009-04-24, 10:22 PM
Why do I have to prove it? Who said the only way to get uncroackeds if by a croackmancer creating them?

Actually, nevermind. They did use the term "decay", didn't they. Sorry, shoulda read the song myself. Yeah, they used the word "decay". Now, it might be a metaphor, since artists do take that liberty to rhyme, so don't read too much into it, Oslecamo. But, yeah, I think that's adequate to demonstrate a life expectancy for all living units. (Before someone yells Transylvitians may not be living, bats are, and the song indicates they decay, too.)

Ethesis
2009-04-25, 12:20 AM
Oh, this is absolutely gorgeous. As ever, Wanda is chilling and and calculating. And I thought of another disturbing implication: a major part of Parson's presence is that the casters of the Magic Kingdom wanted him there. The 'summon perfect warlord' spell was in reality a plot or even trap to lure some King or Overlord into starting the War to end all Wars. It did not work out that way in our world, not precisely... but perhaps that is what the Grand Abbie and her allies have in mind.

If I hadn't already fully been planning to follow Erfworld as far as the road will take it, this page would have convinced me to. The threads are coming together, and a tangled web do they weave indeed.

Indeed!

Things are really coming together.

Suicide Junkie
2009-04-25, 12:23 AM
It could also be referring to their corpses decaying the turn after they die in battle.

As far as life expectancy, I'm sure it is very very short in Erfworld. You could probably count the days on your fingers. Grunts would drag down the average even if there are some rulers who have been alive since the beginning of the world.

glissle
2009-04-25, 12:39 AM
Actually, nevermind. They did use the term "decay", didn't they. Sorry, shoulda read the song myself. Yeah, they used the word "decay". Now, it might be a metaphor, since artists do take that liberty to rhyme, so don't read too much into it, Oslecamo. But, yeah, I think that's adequate to demonstrate a life expectancy for all living units. (Before someone yells Transylvitians may not be living, bats are, and the song indicates they decay, too.)

The (partial) correlation we've seen between level / status and looking older is further evidence of life expectancy. However, the word decay might describe the disappearance of corpses after a turn. Or, TV might have a croakamancer and a routine practice of uncroaking its own casualties - though I suspect we're never going to see any uncroaked TV units, so as to maintain the enigma of their nature.

Edit: I guess I should refresh before posting if I go get a snack.

Wakky
2009-04-25, 12:52 AM
Oh no! While reading these posts I think I just figured out the plot of book 2 and the end of the entire story! The bad part is I can't discuss it without the fear of ruining it for everyone else.

Or maybe my imagination is just working overtime tonight... :smalleek:

Whispri
2009-04-25, 03:37 AM
Heh. I... was planning on stopping reading at the end of the book, but Uncroaked Ansom's make up for a lot. :smallsmile: I'm also hoping for Lava Golems.

As far as dying of old age goes, I'll point to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0091.html). What's her name, the sword Princess was popped because of fears of conquest, not old age, she actually claimed he should never have had an heir, a ridiculous notion if age could claim him. Would Ansom have bothered asking why an heir was needed if the answer was so obvious? The girl is an idiot mind, and Ansom was a complete Ansom, but nevertheless, there's no way they could be ignorant of a concept that basic.

I believe someone asked what she'd think of this? But does it matter? She's done her worst and hated Stanley anyway.

As for Translyvyto, Vampires and Uncroaked, I see no reason why there couldn't be a side with Spectral Warriors for infantry led by Spectral Warlords and Casters with natural magic bonuses simliar to Transyvyto's powers of flight. Or a Kingdom of Ghouls or a side in which everyone's a Skeleton, a lot of the differences would just be cosmetic in game terms after all. Well maybe the Skeletons would be pushing it, but Liche and Death Knight equivalents for Casters and Warlords sounds about right. Does it really matter if rations pop in the form of blood, flesh or raw sorcery? As long as the upkeep has to be paid...

ishnar
2009-04-25, 04:07 AM
oh.

My response to the whole, "how can Wanda keep going right to where something is and digging it up." Even though Steve already put out his theory, I just want to remind people that Sizemoretrimancer looked in the bones of the mountain, but Wandatrimancer was looking all over the surface. If anyone would know where all the troops fell, it would be her.

Crod
2009-04-25, 05:04 AM
This is one of my favourite pages. An awsome discussion that tells us so much about both Wanda and Parson, I had to read it many times. Wanda is very, very scary and calculating, I just love panel 4.

Moechi_Vill
2009-04-25, 06:37 AM
New comic is up.

Is Wanda going to uncroak Ansom? Is she even more scary than before?

nope, she's gonna super-uncroak him!

(hmm I hope he's not going to become a problem down the road)

Oh smeg nevermind, celebrate while you can: rejoice!

EBass
2009-04-25, 06:57 AM
We have all stated that FAQ was unlikely to pop a croakamancer or capture one.

BUT Jilian states she did do merc work to keep the cash rolling in (and to amuse herself) it seems plausible that Wanda was a captured unit in the employ of another side who Jillian captured while doing merc work. If Jilian "saved" Wanda from the employ of a side who merely used her (perhaps in a link up) it might explain some of Wandas attachement to her?

Just thinking out loud.

Gez
2009-04-25, 07:08 AM
1-Like uncroackeds, transyvilto units decay.
2-Vinnie and the other warlords evolved from doombats wich leveled up enough, just like Stanley become a dragon riding artifact swinging overlord all the way from a simple pikemen.
Stanley still looks like a pikeman. Vinny doesn't look like a bat. Also, read up on poetic license.



Nobody said that all uncroackeds have no will.
Yes they did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0027.html)
Also, uncroaked casters function as infantry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0027.html), and Bunny is a fully-functional thinkamancer.



Like the other guy said vampires are normally considered special among the nonliving. Yes vampires are nonliving. The whole vampires are actually diseased people is very recent and really not part of fantastic fantasy.
laff

Dracula-like vampires are very recent to begin with. Folktale vampires look nothing like Count Vinny. (Who is not a royal, by the way, just a noble.)


Why non-living guys can hold a side:
GK stayed on Stanley's control with nothing but a bunch of uncroackeds and rock golems in there. Point.
They're not holding the city for themselves, they're just being active units belonging to Stanley's side holding the city for Stanley. That's a huuuuuuuuuuge difference.

MattR
2009-04-25, 07:23 AM
I think Parson's reaction to Wanda uncroaking Ansom will be more interesting AND important then his decisions during the battle, for giving us insight into how he views the people of erf. My money is on him objecting in some form:)

teratorn
2009-04-25, 07:52 AM
I think Parson's reaction to Wanda uncroaking Ansom will be more interesting AND important then his decisions during the battle, for giving us insight into how he views the people of erf. My money is on him objecting in some form:)

Why? He needs to rebuild his forces as soon as possible.

factotum
2009-04-25, 08:08 AM
I think Parson's reaction to Wanda uncroaking Ansom will be more interesting AND important then his decisions during the battle, for giving us insight into how he views the people of erf. My money is on him objecting in some form:)

He's had Wanda uncroak thousands of Coalition troops during the actual fight, why would he suddenly object to her doing it now?

djharr
2009-04-25, 08:31 AM
I am really amazed that no one has seen the obvious here: ANSOM IS A MARY SUE! Now, I think everyone will agree that he very nicely fit the trope up until a few strips ago. In fact, he was almost a textbook Mary Sue.

Now someone will undoubtedly raise the lame objection: "But he DIED!!" Which just goes to show how unimaginative people here are. The fact that he is dead is only a minor character flaw, one of those nonessential factors that only emphasize how ridiculously overpowered he is in other ways.

Even though he is dead, he is about to have that small inconvenience fixed for him, as Wanda prepares to raise him from the dead using the Pliers, which will undoubtedly make him the most powerful undead creature in the history of Erfworld.

Now think about that. He died, yet, he is not going to remain dead, because of the artifact he himself was carrying. In other words, not only was he a Mary Sue before he died, he will doubly be a Mary Sue now because he provided his own means of coming back from the dead.

Clearly Ansom, not Parson, is the real Mary Sue in this scenario, and anyone who thinks differently is a narrow-minded cretin.

David

(And yes, I am mocking all the people who are finding Mary Sues under the beds, in the closets, at the top of Efedup....)

VariaVespasa
2009-04-25, 08:36 AM
Master Class does not equal max level-Sizemore was always master class but he went up two levels in the battle. I'd guess master class is equivalent to having access to the highest level spells.

Er, as far as I know Sizemore has NEVER been labelled as master class, so your assertion is false. Can anyone point to any strip or source that says he's formally a master class caster?

cover_bob
2009-04-25, 08:46 AM
I have a long shot theory here:

The reason the warlord riding the rammer said 'Titans...' was because for some reason they were able to identify 2 things: 1.) he has incredible strength and 2.) Parson is classified as royal.

The battle will go on and we will find out about all this at the end and for some reason we will all be afraid that the whole kingdom will be turned neutral despite defeating the alliance (like maybe the Tool decides to disband his kingdom when he thinks it is lost from a distance) but then the side remains because Parson inherits the right to rule (Royalty thing).

Then seeing that the side remained after it was abandoned, Stanley finds a new force by attacking the other alliance towns that are now unguarded and starts a campaign to take back GK by force. In finding a new ally in Charles Comm, who still wants Parson, they join up to defeat him.

Also, Wanda uncroaks the Prince and Bogrol and they become a pair of comic relief chars.

Looks like I called it!

MattR
2009-04-25, 08:49 AM
One of the reasons why i think Parson will object is that Ansom was his opponent, he knew him well enough to make plans based on how he'd react to things... he had a personality, one Parson interacted with. I think Parson might have reservations about Ansom hanging around as a mindless drone (if uncroaking results in the usual willess kind). Theres that phrase 'i wouldnt wish the fate on my worst enemy.' He didnt know or have any kind of personal connection to the troops Wanda uncroaked. On top of that the decision to uncrak those troops was made during a life or death situation making it much more acceptable.

MattR
2009-04-25, 08:50 AM
Looks like I called it!

There are just so many things in that theory that arent quite spot on =/ or at least far from confirmed yet... dont break out the champagne.


I am really amazed that no one has seen the obvious here: ANSOM IS A MARY SUE! Now, I think everyone will agree that he very nicely fit the trope up until a few strips ago. In fact, he was almost a textbook Mary Sue.

He's a Mary Sue because he secretly likes to wear dresses. There's no way Jillian would hook up with a norm after the kink that is Wanda :)

raphfrk
2009-04-25, 08:51 AM
Master Class does not equal max level-Sizemore was always master class but he went up two levels in the battle. I'd guess master class is equivalent to having access to the highest level spells.

It could also be that each level range has a title, like

Novice, qualified, expert, master, grand master

If the highest level casters in the world are around level 15, then grandmaster might be level 12+ or so, even though technically, there can be casters much higher than that.

Also, Wanda is defined as Chief Croakamancer, though that is probably separate.

galdon
2009-04-25, 08:58 AM
Yes. A "friend" that finds himself trapped in a nearly hopeless situation in another universe that he probably will never return from summons me to join the fun.

That would be the end of my friendship.

its not so hopeless right now though, they are low on units, but they are no longer under attack, wanda can start uncroaking as many units as she can this turn before they disappear, they are now the richest side in the world, but they have no commander units left, which would make it nearly impossible to continue to fight for the rest of the tools. they could wait and hope they can pop enough commanders in a city of rubble before another threat emerges, or they can use the summoning spell to get people parson knows are able to do the job.

also it'd be more cheerful than having parson have to croak or capture each of his friends as they are forced to try to kill him.

fendrin
2009-04-25, 09:06 AM
Thoughts:

'Master class' may just mean 'really good' and not have a game-mechanics definition.

Transylvitians may be uncroaked, but there isn't much evidence of it. In the words of David Hume, "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence." I choose to be wise in this instance('cause I don't always :smallamused:) and thus choose to believe that Transyvitians are probably not uncroaked.

Is Wanda saying she is responsible for the downfall of Faq? What other apocalypse(s) could she be talking about, what else could she have 'wrecked and ruined'? She says it was predicted she would attune to the 'pliers. Either the predictamancer was really bad at his/her job or they were stupid enough to tell Wanda that she would attune to the 'pliers after the fall of Faq. Unlikely. I once again stand by my long-time (and perhaps unwise) claim that Wanda was Faq's predictamancer.

Hmm... if she was the predictamancer, she may have needed an heir to exist so that she could survive the fall of Faq, and thus told Banhammer to pop Jillian.

She also would have been able to allow Stanley to find Faq by not telling Jack the correct city to veil... or she could be the one who sent Jillian the thinkagram about the dwagons... or both... maybe for some reason Jillian needs to be anti-Stanley... maybe Wanda hopes/predicted that Jillian will croak Stanley...

I may be wrong, but everything fits and it would tie up quite a few loose ends...

T-O-E
2009-04-25, 09:27 AM
A third option, is Master Class just in-game terminology for the highest level a unit can get?

Rob Balder said that there isn't a level cap.

Ethesis
2009-04-25, 09:29 AM
I am really amazed that no one has seen the obvious here: ANSOM IS A MARY SUE! Now, I think everyone will agree that he very nicely fit the trope up until a few strips ago. In fact, he was almost a textbook Mary Sue.

Now someone will undoubtedly raise the lame objection: "But he DIED!!" Which just goes to show how unimaginative people here are. The fact that he is dead is only a minor character flaw, one of those nonessential factors that only emphasize how ridiculously overpowered he is in other ways.

Even though he is dead, he is about to have that small inconvenience fixed for him, as Wanda prepares to raise him from the dead using the Pliers, which will undoubtedly make him the most powerful undead creature in the history of Erfworld.

Now think about that. He died, yet, he is not going to remain dead, because of the artifact he himself was carrying. In other words, not only was he a Mary Sue before he died, he will doubly be a Mary Sue now because he provided his own means of coming back from the dead.

Clearly Ansom, not Parson, is the real Mary Sue in this scenario, and anyone who thinks differently is a narrow-minded cretin.

David

(And yes, I am mocking all the people who are finding Mary Sues under the beds, in the closets, at the top of Efedup....)


You know, not only are the strips getting better, the comments are getting better too.

MattR
2009-04-25, 09:41 AM
Hmmmm while i still feel that Wanda was the predictamancer for FAQ i can see how it would work if the predictamancer was a seperate entity.

If the predictamancer shared the beliefs of Janis and Banhammer, both people who pursued peace rather then combat, it may have used it's abilities to deliberately engineer the whole situation. Telling Wanda she would get the pliers as an incentive to go with/stay with Stanley, knowing that without Wanda's help Parson could never win this fight or even exist in erf. Popping Jillian, giving the side a chance to continue after the deliberately betraying FAQ to get Wanda etc in position on Stanleys side. If the predictamancer told Jack that peace might happen if he stands by Stanley and the Chief Warlord that'll appear in the future.... it might explain the level of loyalty we're seeing.

SteveMB
2009-04-25, 10:21 AM
Hmmmm while i still feel that Wanda was the predictamancer for FAQ i can see how it would work if the predictamancer was a seperate entity.

If so, she's still going out of her way to conceal that fact from Parson ("As it was Predicted!" rather than the more natural "As I Predicted!"), even while being surprisingly open (for her, anyway) in dropping hints about her personal history.

It's not a fatal objection to the theory, but it's a bit of an oddity if it's true.

MattR
2009-04-25, 11:01 AM
You could be right... i suppose it'd depend on if the predicatmancer feels like theyre producing a prediction or merely channeling one. Though this seems thin.

Frankly i'm not sure anymore... while i was writing the second paragraph in that earlier post i was thinking back over all the evidence so far and it did seem like having the predicatamancer as a seperate person makes alot of sense.

Vreejack
2009-04-25, 11:58 AM
You could be right... i suppose it'd depend on if the predicatmancer feels like theyre producing a prediction or merely channeling one. Though this seems thin.

Frankly i'm not sure anymore... while i was writing the second paragraph in that earlier post i was thinking back over all the evidence so far and it did seem like having the predicatamancer as a seperate person makes alot of sense.

Also, I cannot quite imagine Wanda wearing this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0119.html). (Panel 7).

T-O-E
2009-04-25, 12:06 PM
Isn't that Jack?

Gez
2009-04-25, 12:09 PM
Also, I cannot quite imagine Wanda wearing this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0119.html). (Panel 7).

I think that's Jack Snipe, actually; not the Predictamancer.

ishnar
2009-04-25, 12:40 PM
I am really amazed that no one has seen the obvious here: ANSOM IS A MARY SUE! ...

(And yes, I am mocking all the people who are finding Mary Sues under the beds, in the closets, at the top of Efedup....)

Considering that there has been zero Mary Sue discussion in this thread, you're mocking the wrong people.

Gez
2009-04-25, 01:43 PM
Considering that there has been zero Mary Sue discussion in this thread, you're mocking the wrong people.

Actually...

Haven't you learned by now that Parson has no real weaknesses? He is a Mary Sue, which does not make the story a poor one. But there can be no denying that Parson fits the Mary Sue trope very, very well.

nooblade
2009-04-25, 06:48 PM
Hmm. I didn't think Parson's orders for the casters to link was very Mary Sue-ish. The Mary/Marty Sue doesn't just know the best solution, she knows she knows the best solution, and that is what makes you want to kick them.

Also, Parson seems to be just coming out of "this is just a game" mode.

But yeah, some events looked Sue-y.

Kasavin
2009-04-25, 08:47 PM
You know, before this thread I don't think I had ever heard the phrase "Mary Sue" before. So I went to the tvtropes to figure out what exactly a Mary Sue was. They didn't have a reasonable definition other than "it's bad." Which makes perfect sense. All this debate about whether or not such and such a character is a "Mary Sue" is just detractors trying to say something bad about a character. Whether or not its actually a Mary Sue is irrelevant. If you don't like a character, say the specific reasons, don't fall aback onto a poorly defined trope.

As for Parson, of course he has weaknesses. Big, huge ones. He's vastly overweight, a real shocker for me when I started to read BfGK. He's stinks as a webcomic creator. He's also incredibly apathetic about everything except wargames, of which he knows far to much. When given an oportunity to bail on the game and work for Charlie, he in a fit of vanity wanted to see if he was smart enough to win in an unwinnable scenario. He also a sarcastic smart aleck who has problems with authority.