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black dragoon
2009-04-23, 01:49 PM
Well I'm sure we have all heard of evangelion and Warhammer forty thousand, so imagine my shock when a good friend of mine turned me onto a fan fic that mashed the two together and it worked very well. Does anyone have any thoughts on this lovechild of grimdark and mindscrew? If so please spill em I would love to hear them.

Comet
2009-04-23, 02:10 PM
I haven't read it. I'm pondering whether or not I should.

Is it actually any good? Not just the general TvTropes "lolpowerofAWESOME" cliche, but actual quality?

Is it well written? Would I get bored often? Is it readable on a computer screen?

TvTropes compared this version of Shinji to Paul Atreides and other such legends, which got me curious about the fic. I might start reading one of these days and see how far I can get.

black dragoon
2009-04-23, 07:15 PM
It's actually very well written as far as fics go. It's blended the two pretty well together and though Shinji gets a bit mary stuish he still has more than a few flaws.

13_CBS
2009-04-23, 08:48 PM
The first good portion was pretty cool, I thought. I mean, Evangelion and WH40K, interesting concept, right?

Unfortunately, I found myself skipping large portions of the fic once the author crammed a little too much text into the chapters. I stopped keeping up with it not too long afterwards. And the author stopped featuring my favorite characters, so...

Still quite a blast to read, though.

black dragoon
2009-04-23, 09:32 PM
Personally I have yet to tire of it. I have found it to be a very fun ride and honestly enjoy many of the alternate character interpretations that the author has made. Also Orky Rei personally I think is utterly terrifying....

The Tygre
2009-04-23, 10:29 PM
This is the ten percent worth dying for. His hand guides us all.

KnightDisciple
2009-04-23, 11:05 PM
Saw this on SpaceBattles forums, thought I'd enlighten over here:


Just found something really interesting on the Evageeks Wiki, in their translation of the Classified Information from the Evangelion 2 game (which Anno was apparently involved with):

Quote:
The S Engine Theory was advocated by Dr. Katsuragi. As the world is formed with spirals, the engine acquires energy from its shape, which is the same as DNA. From here, the S Engine was being envisioned as an energy source that would attempt to procure helical energy in other words, an inexhaustible supply.
In other words, Angels (and now Eva 02 here and Eva 01 in canon after it ate Zeruel) officially run on Spiral Energy. I'll let everyone else ponder the implications.

Source (http://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_Information_(Translation)#S.C2.B2_Engin e).

Killersquid
2009-04-23, 11:22 PM
This is the ten percent worth dying for. His hand guides us all.

All Praise the Emperor.

I've yet to fully read this yet, but I read one chapter and went "...awesome...".

Fri
2009-04-24, 12:10 AM
for me, it's the best fanfiction ever, but I can see why some people doesn't like it. Do you like over the top and wall of text?

It's epic, that's for sure. Really epic. Though sometimes shinji turned out to be too perfect.

Lycan 01
2009-04-24, 12:19 AM
Where's the link? :smallconfused:

Evangelion was okay, but I didn't enjoy it as much towards the end of the show. But I'm interested in how it would mix with 40K... This I gotta see.

Killersquid
2009-04-24, 12:23 AM
Where's the link? :smallconfused:

Evangelion was okay, but I didn't enjoy it as much towards the end of the show. But I'm interested in how it would mix with 40K... This I gotta see.

The TV Tropes Link. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/ShinjiAndWarhammer40K?from=Main.ShinjiAndWarhammer 40K) It has all the tropes, and the link to the fic, which is here. (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3886999/1/Shinji_and_Warhammer40k)

Lord of Rapture
2009-04-24, 05:55 AM
I'm going to be a dissenter here and say I didn't enjoy this fanfic. Not that I think its crap, it's just that it's the sort of thing I don't like: cheesy, over the top parody. I mean, Shinji Ikari acting like a Large Ham is so much more than I can take...

black dragoon
2009-04-24, 06:02 AM
I have to agree with you there Rapture. I do find the new 'uber shinji' A bit much to handle at times but, for the life of me I cannot seem to stop myself from reading the Fic. :smalltongue:

And Evas run on spiral energy...oh.Dear.God.

Lord of Rapture
2009-04-24, 06:17 AM
I have to agree with you there Rapture. I do find the new 'uber shinji' A bit much to handle at times but, for the life of me I cannot seem to stop myself from reading the Fic. :smalltongue:

And Evas run on spiral energy...oh.Dear.God.

See, this is a prime example of why I don't like it. Way too silly for my tastes. What the creator should have done was to take the grim darkness of both settings a create a black hole of despair, hopelessness, and bloodshed on the internet. Then I would gobble it up.

black dragoon
2009-04-24, 06:21 AM
Fair enough but if things ever got that Grimdark...well I think the internet may just cry tears of blood for no readily apparent reason. The Spiral energy/Eva situation in not related to the fiction however. Could someone post an original link to the site this is from this piques my curiosity oddly.

Fri
2009-04-24, 06:27 AM
yeah, lord of rapture is that guy who can't help but see wh40k as serious setting (Not that it's wrong, mind you. It's just another interpretation) In that mindset, I can't see how he could like shinji and wh40k.

Lord of Rapture
2009-04-24, 06:30 AM
yeah, lord of rapture is that guy who can't help but see wh40k as serious setting (Not that it's wrong, mind you. It's just another interpretation) In that mindset, I can't see how he could like shinji and wh40k.

Bingo. You got it. I don't know why, I'm quite cheerful in everyday life, but I somehow think it's more fun to see WH40k as a horrible, horrible place where nothing is ever gonna get better and everyone is doomed to a painful, painful end. Huh.


Fair enough but if things ever got that Grimdark...well I think the internet may just cry tears of blood for no readily apparent reason. The Spiral energy/Eva situation in not related to the fiction however. Could someone post an original link to the site this is from this piques my curiosity oddly.

Then the Godhand come down and appoint someone as their new member. Everyone else is sacrificed to give birth to his/her ascension, sent to Hell to suffer for eternity.

*for those who don't know, it's a reference to the Behelits in Berserk, a.k.a. one of my members on my tag team for the best mangas eva

black dragoon
2009-04-24, 06:32 AM
That is fair enough in my book. For a very long time I thought 40K was meant to be taken seriously and then I just broke down in fits of laughter when I started playing Dawn of war for some silly reason. Though really I from what I have seen from the author's mindset he thinks of 40k as something almost inspirational in the Eva-verse. As a friend said, when Shinji starts talking about the 41st millennium it makes people realize things could be so much worse. Or maybe in Kensuke's mind better.

Voidhawk
2009-04-24, 07:58 AM
I really like it, though you're right about the wall of text-ness of the whole thing. Sometimes I find myself wishing he'd update smaller chapters, but quicker, instead of nothing for ages followed by a hunk that'll take you hours to read.

I also really like the way Shinji manages to pull positives out of 40k the whole way through. He keeps finding insperational things in one of the most crapsack worlds ever created. The main one being that, however horrific it gets, however many die, whatever nightmares the universe throws at them, the people there never stop fighting, never give up, never surrender, they walk into the dark and rend it limb from limb.

Also Shinji does encounter challenges, specifically the writer's been setting up a massive one in the form of Kaworu Nagisa, who has the advice of Commander Farsight who is as close as someone comes to the anti-Shinji, and has has been wheedling his moves about in an unpredictable fashion for ages.

KnightDisciple
2009-04-24, 08:06 AM
Source of Spiral Energy (http://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_Information_(Translation)#S.C2.B2_Engin e) information.

Per the top of that site:
The Classified Information (機密情報, Kimitsu Jouhou) is a set of data files accessible from computer terminals located within the video game Neon Genesis Evangelion 2. It is generally considered a cornerstone of supplemental canon for the influx of new information it provides and given a great deal of weight due to Hideaki Anno's participation in the game's production. While most of the information reconciles fully with the show, there are some instances of apparent conflict. It is unclear to what extent this represents genuine inconsistency as opposed to reflecting disparities in security access (e.g., it requires a higher clearance level to learn that the white giant is Lilith rather than Adam).

So that spiral power thing? It's canon.

black dragoon
2009-04-24, 08:10 AM
Yeah I only just recently have seen the 40kd version of Kaworu and I am more than a little bit impressed. I'm honestly curious to see how what other parts beyond the main series are going to be dragged in. I've been studying the various bits of canon lying around it only seems reasonable that if the author did his homework we are going to be seeing some interesting takes on various bits of it.

Speaking of which. If we are to believe the canon of Evangelion, it would seem Lilith and Adam were created by the Old ones raising all sorts of interesting issues. Also is it possible that 'nids may be a successful Adam derived species? I know they are from outside the galaxy supposedly. But how far reaching were the old ones and in the Eva-verse the mysterious first ancestral race?


It is very possible. If it is from Anno then it is auto canon. IT could just be someone pulling our chains though.

The Tygre
2009-04-24, 08:24 AM
I can agree that I wish it was shorter; it's easy to lose your place in the whole thing. But I love this story. As I've said, it's the ten percent. I don't know what you're expecting, but I assure you, as a fan fic writer myself, it probably isn't out there. You think I'm kidding, you hope I'm exaggerating, but after three years on FanFiction.net... I'm not even sure I have a -void- for my soul anymore. Just kind of this numb feeling of disappointment. So when something this complex, incredible, over-the-top, detailed, and well written shows up, I think I have a pretty damn good reason to be fanatical. Besides, it's not really all that much of a cross-over and more of... well, I'm not sure. But I put my faith in this story above all others, even my own. Because, if Ravenloft has taught me anything, darkness only makes the stars shine brighter.

KnightDisciple
2009-04-24, 08:27 AM
*snip*
It is very possible. If it is from Anno then it is auto canon. IT could just be someone pulling our chains though.

I find it somewhat doubtful. It's something that can be independently verified with a little work. Not sure why they'd falsify that. Especially such a minor byline.

UltraDude
2009-04-24, 08:31 AM
I find it somewhat doubtful. It's something that can be independently verified with a little work. Not sure why they'd falsify that. Especially such a minor byline.

This is freaking Gainax. I am 100% sure that something involving S2 Engines and TTGL was intentional. Was TTGL in production when the game was made? I know the Spiral thing was pretty early in the planning stages, so maybe they added that to the game because of TTGL.

black dragoon
2009-04-24, 08:39 AM
This is true. It being Gainax I would not be shocked if it turned out every single anime they ever did involved spiral energy in some form or another. And really it kind of makes sense that an eva runs of the power of well...hot blood. Look at Shinji in his Crowning moments in the original series. Get an eva pilot pissed or determined and they suddenly are able to devastate being that a Nuclear device only annoyed.

Voidhawk
2009-04-24, 09:18 AM
If Ravenloft has taught me anything, darkness only makes the stars shine brighter.
Awesome quote. Sigged for truth, if you don't mind?

The Tygre
2009-04-24, 09:24 AM
Awesome quote. Sigged for truth, if you don't mind?

Not at all. I regret that I have yet to actually add Champions of Ravenloft into my extensive library, but I intend to fix that in the not too distant future.

black dragoon
2009-04-24, 09:51 AM
I've heard good things. I need to honestly track down Ravenloft materials myself. Also, no comments on the nids being an angel offshoot? I'm kind of surprised.

Lycan 01
2009-04-24, 02:17 PM
I'll read it later when I get the chance... But first, I have two questions?

1) What's Spiral Energy? (Nutshell answer, please. I'm not good with science.... :smalltongue:)

2) What's Ravenloft?

Also, "Darkness only makes the stars shine brighter" is one of the deepest things I've ever read on the internet. Bravo, good sir, on giving me a cool new quote to use. :smallcool:

Revanmal
2009-04-24, 02:58 PM
1) What's Spiral Energy? (Nutshell answer, please. I'm not good with science.... :smalltongue:)

It's hardly science.

It's from another GAINAX production: "Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann" which is full of win and awesome. Spiral Energy is what powers the giant robots and lets them do all the crazy stuff they do, and is defined as the power of evolution. Since it is generated by the will to live and grow, it is infinite, much like an S2 engine's power. Anything beyond that is spoilers though, so you should go watch Tengen Toppa RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW, because it is win made manifest.

Oslecamo
2009-04-24, 03:10 PM
It's hardly science.

That you even compare it to science makes my soul cry.

Spiral power it's basically rule of cool OVER 9000! The cooler the characters act the stronger the robot acts. They try to explain it, but to say that it was anyway related to real world science would be akin to claiming that Harry Potter is actually an acurate description of the real world.

Lycan 01
2009-04-24, 03:26 PM
Just read the prologue. Took me about an hour...



This... this is awesome.

The Tygre
2009-04-24, 03:32 PM
2) What's Ravenloft?

Also, "Darkness only makes the stars shine brighter" is one of the deepest things I've ever read on the internet. Bravo, good sir, on giving me a cool new quote to use. :smallcool:

:smallbiggrin:

Ravenloft was/is a campaign setting that came out in the 1980s. Despite D&D trying to avoid particularly 'dark' overtones to avoid accusations of witchcraft and satanism, Ravenloft forged ahead and made a dark, morbid setting based specifically around Gothic Horror. (Needless to say, there are few if any Lovecraftian kinds of horror here.)The actual setting was an island in the middle of a demi-plane surrounded by mists. The mists themselves occasionally invaded the material plane and drew in evil residents, some becoming the rulers of the land known as Dark-lords. The most famous and powerful was Strahd Von Zarovich, who is generally regarded as the D&D equivalent of Dracula. One great thing about Ravenloft is that it didn't draw from any single setting; along with Strahd, there were Dark-lords from Krynn, Faerun, and Greyhawk. It's not too far off to think that in a modern version, there might be some villains from Eberron in there as well. Populated by all sorts of dark monsters, strange cults, gypsies, and undead, Ravenloft was awesome. But it was intensely dark; there really was no winning. The whole atmosphere made clear that you might kill a monster here, but you wouldn't stop it's relatives from coming for you or your kin. Killing Dark-lords was an even worse idea; Dark-lords were intimately connected to their land. If they died, the land and everything that lived on it died too. Unless, of course, you became a Dark-lord and turned incontrovertibly evil and bound to Ravenloft. Because another jolly detail about Ravenloft? Almost nobody gets out. Ever. The mists are a one way ticket. A few people have gotten out, but not enough to inspire much hope. But like I said, if you chose to be good here, it made all the more difference. You just had to make sure that you out-shone everything around you.

This site appears to be the most popular for Ravenloft so far:
Secrets of Kargatane (http://www.kargatane.com/)

A few years back, White Wolf republished the Ravenloft stuff for 3.0 and 3.5, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

sun_tzu
2009-04-25, 06:22 AM
I dunno. I got a few chapters in, and stopped because it felt too much like Shinji was turning into a Mary-Sue (and Gendo into a cardboard villain). Should I be giving it a second chance?

black dragoon
2009-04-25, 10:29 AM
Personally I would give it a second chance. I admit they make Gendo a bit over the top in his evilness. But, Shinji does lose some of that Mary Sue nature. It's not a shinji wank thankfully and the author admits at points he does get a little bit over the top with it and quickly rectifies it in a logical manner.

Revlid
2009-04-25, 02:45 PM
Shinji isn't really a Mary-Sue; or at least, he's a very well done one that increases in tolerability as the chapters go on.

Hell, by the current latest chapter, he's all but impotent in the face of a crisis.

Gendo is over the top? I'll assume you watched the anime a long time ago - this a man who totally unecessarily forced his son to murder one of his only friends with his own hands. Among other things. (deliberately emotionally crippling his son, treating clones of his wife as inherently disposable, and having a really crappy final goal all come to mind)

Wraithy
2009-04-25, 06:20 PM
Epic. I'm okay with the size (though I usually have to save and pick it back up again later), I do think it would be better if the author split it up into more frequently updated chunks.

On the Mary Sue front: I think the author was aware of this and has been doing a pretty good job countering it in recent chapters, especially now that Shinji has an absolute enemy... aside from the angels... and Selee... and Gendo.

Hectonkhyres
2009-04-25, 06:53 PM
I read this one a while back... though seeing it referenced here made me read through those chapters that hadn't been written yet on my last visit. Still awesome.

I am, however, torn between this and Thousand Shinji/ The Open Door (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1443555/Academia_Nut).


Stop reading now if you haven't already read both fics.

On the one hand we have a Shinji who can telekinetically crush your head retroactively, has a massive multiple personality disorder that has already spread to another castmember, Toji in full 'Adeptus gear doing a Leonidas, and enough awesome to make Kamina himself spontansously combust.

On the other we have a soulless Shinji trained by Ahriman himself eating a good chunk of the world's souls, ascending into the position of almighty chaos god and dragging some of the main cast with him, and tearing open the barrier between dimensions. The damn thing had crossovers with everything during the Open Door arc. Hallowed are the Ori is countered with Blood for the Blood God. Lolth gets a boob shot off. Rei and Asuka had a child together. Haruhi Suzumiya, on an odd note, gets laid during an Iron Butterfly concert. Unfortunately the thing just went on hiatus... something that makes me inclined to peel kittens.

Somewhere in there my head went scanners.

I just can't tell which is more awesome.

Scylfing
2009-04-25, 07:49 PM
Gendo is over the top? I'll assume you watched the anime a long time ago - this a man who totally unecessarily forced his son to murder one of his only friends with his own hands. Among other things. (deliberately emotionally crippling his son, treating clones of his wife as inherently disposable, and having a really crappy final goal all come to mind)

I'm not entirely sure I agree with the second-to-last point (note how he opened the entry plug by hand to save Rei II) but definitely agreed on all the others. At least he got what he deserved, he was an awful man.


And I'm sorry but while it's an interesting concept, I couldn't make it past the prologue, for two reasons: Japanese kids talking like chavs, and the thing with Minase. Which is kind of odd because I used to think "Children of an Elder God" was the greatest thing to ever happen to fanfiction and it has all sorts of awful crap like that--I bet I couldn't read that now either. Hmm.

black dragoon
2009-04-26, 03:27 PM
This is true and let us not forget Gendo managing to get his team to deploy an eva by hand and not just standing there barking orders. I do admit he is an utterly despicable person as a whole though.

The Tygre
2009-04-26, 06:49 PM
Which is kind of odd because I used to think "Children of an Elder God" was the greatest thing to ever happen to fanfiction and it has all sorts of awful crap like that--I bet I couldn't read that now either. Hmm.

We all used to think that. Then we got to the end and realized that something had gone horribly, horribly wrong. I think it's a fitting tribute to Cthulhu. Because Lovecraft may not have written it, but I certainly lost SAN.

Lycan 01
2009-04-26, 06:57 PM
Is it sad that I'm enjoying this fan fic more than the original anime? :smallconfused:

I liked the anime at first, but half-way through the series I kinda lost interest. I dunno why... Perhaps it was the emo-fest of Shinji, the over-my-head psychological aspect of the show, the sheer hatred I had for Gendo (I regard him as one of the worst anime characters ever. By worst I don't mean that he was badly written or anything. By worst I mean he was a heartless monster who was quite cruel. But I did like his glasses...), or the lack of mecha combat that I'd expected and enjoyed for the first few episodes.

At any rate, I just stopped liking the show. Never saw the ending, either. Read about it... glad I stopped watching it. But reading this fan fic... Its hard to describe it. Its just better. Granted I'm only on chapter... 6 or 7, don't remember exactly. But its been fun to read. Shinji isn't annoying anymore. In fact, he's now one of my favorite characters. Rei has a personality (gasp) and she's more than just a plot device now. Gendo... is still evil. But he's a "fun to watch/read about" kind of evil now. Oh, and the Eva vs. Angel fights are quite epic. :smallbiggrin:


I don't regard Shinji as a Mary Sue. I can see how that conclussion can be reached, but... like I said, Shinji isn't annoying anymore, and he's now one of my favorite characters. Mary Sue or not, this is an awesome portrayel of Shinji. Also, I love the voices in his head. Their input is... entertaining. :smallamused:


Overall, one of the best fan fics I've ever read. Period.

Comet
2009-04-28, 02:28 PM
So I decided to get over my fear of computer-screen literature and start reading my first fanfic since Nigsek: A Monsters Tail.

And boy, this is good stuff. It's been a while since I've been so happily surprised.

I know the word 'awesome' gets thrown around a lot these days but this is an example of writing that really deserves it.
Giant robots, the Grim Dark Future of the 41st Millenium, Dune Messiah etc.
It's just cramped full of the things I'm a fanboy of.

I'm up to chapter seven now. Three Angels down, each fight more epic than the last.
Farseer-sama teaching Shinji to See the future and Shinji naming his Evangelion have to be my favourite literature scenes this year

black dragoon
2009-04-28, 02:42 PM
Haha I have to agree with those scenes. Honestly I think this might just qualify for literary merit as far as fanfics go. Haha, it may even have just set the bar I guess.