PDA

View Full Version : Past Lives



Crixon
2009-04-24, 12:34 PM
Hey, ive always had an intrest in past lives, i have some vague memories that ive managed to access (how i have no idea but i think it was just randomly) but thats about all, im wondering if anyone knows how to properly access past life memories? and if you want to share past lives here go right ahead, but i definately want to, possibly even need to, learn how to do this.

Dogmantra
2009-04-24, 12:36 PM
I don't believe in past lives, but I find them incredibly interesting nevertheless, I mean, how do those memories get triggered? I think it might be something to do with dreams resurfacing.

I'd love to hear about these vague memories.

Crixon
2009-04-24, 12:45 PM
Well, its not forum postable for sure! if you want i can pm it to you though,

Dogmantra
2009-04-24, 01:03 PM
Go for it.
As long as there isn't a sex scene :smalltongue:

Canadian
2009-04-28, 09:00 PM
Think of the past. That should help.

zerombr
2009-04-28, 09:11 PM
i don't recall specifically a past life but I've got an odd sense that before I was born, I got a 'This is your life' summary of certain things I was going to do. Sounds stupid I know, but it's kinda how it feels to get all this deja vu.

One bit that I remember vividly from long LONG ago, we're talkin 5-7 years of age. I remember driving down a road on a bridge, (I know where it's at, btw) in the rain. My movements were slurred, like I was drunk or drugged, and I was lamenting life. I decided to myself I was going to just go over the edge of the bridge and end myself. :smalleek:
I saw someone walking on the side of the bridge in the rainy night, and thought, "if I'm going to die, i want to take someone with me."

now how screwed up is that that I could dream that in kindergarden???!?!?!?

it's probably the main reason I abstain from alcohol, and am a cautious driver, but can a young mind really have produced this dream, or was it a portent or a past life?

evil-frosty
2009-04-28, 09:32 PM
zerombr that is very interesting, you might just have been a disturbed child or it is a portent. I really dont know. I personally dont believe in past lives but they can be very interesting and if they are real imagine if some people could remember all the way back to BC and stuff, it could solve a lot of historical mysteries and it would just be amazing.

zerombr
2009-04-29, 02:49 PM
i consider myself well adjusted, with good loving parents, so I don't believe myself to have been a disturbed child.

chiasaur11
2009-04-29, 02:56 PM
i consider myself well adjusted, with good loving parents, so I don't believe myself to have been a disturbed child.

We're all messed up bundles of psychosis's one way or another. Not even in a bad way, just the way of the world.

Still, weird bit. Like precognitive dreams, only lower on the precog. Hopefully.

Dallas-Dakota
2009-04-29, 03:03 PM
I only remember two previous lives.

One was somewhere between 900 and 1300 BC. I was a Aztec high priest of Toltec. I lived and died single. Never had a crime record.

In the other it was the one before this one. I was english, lived in London and was a writer.

Don't really remember anything beyond that though.

TheBST
2009-04-29, 03:15 PM
This is my past life.

I am in fact Zeno Mclusky- space adventurer in the year 3016.

Wow, this past life didn't include nearly enough explosions.

Mad Mask
2009-04-29, 03:19 PM
I don't want to spoil your fun or anything, but you should keep in mind that past lives are simply pure fiction, entertaining nonetheless, but still pure fiction, like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Don't become too invested in them.

Faulty
2009-04-29, 03:30 PM
Think of the past. That should help.

That made me laugh out loud. Thank you.

chiasaur11
2009-04-29, 03:31 PM
This is my past life.

I am in fact Zeno Mclusky- space adventurer in the year 3016.

Wow, this past life didn't include nearly enough explosions.

No kidding?

Wow. I think I saw you killed on Deimos.

Mars missions, eh? Between the demons and the mad AIs...

Collin152
2009-04-29, 03:50 PM
I never look back, it distracts from the now. And the future. I dream futures that could and cannot be. Possible futures, but not necessarily ones that are still possible. You know?

Mad Mask
2009-04-29, 03:51 PM
Is this a joke thread ? :smallconfused:

Collin152
2009-04-29, 03:56 PM
Is this a joke thread ? :smallconfused:

Are you a joke, Thread?
No! And we're entitled to our superstitions!

Thajocoth
2009-04-29, 04:21 PM
I've been told that, when I was really little, I claimed to have memories of a past life and relayed those memories. I have no recollection of this. Kinda weird, as I remember gaming on the Atari before my first birthday, but I can't remember something that clearly happened after I could speak. A lot of people in my family have claimed various paranormal activities though...

Arachu
2009-04-29, 04:42 PM
I'm going to actually take this thread seriously, unlike some of you other people :smallamused:

Meditation helps a lot with recovering memories. And no, I don't mean you have to do the stereotypical crossed-legs position, as meditation is actually a form of intensely focused awareness. Think enough about what you can find in your mind, and you should find it eventually (though, you won't necessarily enjoy some parts of your mind :smalleek:)

I suppose hypnosis could (I mean, that's kind of it's point), but I've never actually been hypnotized, so I can't really speak for or against it. It does work for a lot of people, though (though most I've heard about were memories from the current life)

As for stories... I'll leave that hidden. All I remember are the horribly violent wars, a few Roman campaigns I witnessed, and... Well, bits of 1965-70. And I really shouldn't go into those particular details :smalleek:

Though, when I was little (age 3-5), every time I heard the word 'birth' or 'born', I immediately spaced out and envisioned a lone jackal, standing on a hill, in utter blackness (save for the red sky in the background), lifting its head to howl at the sky. Which is somewhat eerie, as I learned about the word 'jackal' at about age 9 or so.

TheBST
2009-04-29, 04:57 PM
Is this a joke thread ? :smallconfused:

'course it is. If you're a reasonable person, you're joking. If you actually believe any of this crap, joke's on you.

Mad Mask
2009-04-29, 05:01 PM
I'm going to actually take this thread seriously, unlike some of you other people :smallamused:

Meditation helps a lot with recovering memories. And no, I don't mean you have to do the stereotypical crossed-legs position, as meditation is actually a form of intensely focused awareness. Think enough about what you can find in your mind, and you should find it eventually (though, you won't necessarily enjoy some parts of your mind :smalleek:)

I suppose hypnosis could (I mean, that's kind of it's point), but I've never actually been hypnotized, so I can't really speak for or against it. It does work for a lot of people, though (though most I've heard about were memories from the current life)

As for stories... I'll leave that hidden. All I remember are the horribly violent wars, a few Roman campaigns I witnessed, and... Well, bits of 1965-70. And I really shouldn't go into those particular details :smalleek:

Though, when I was little (age 3-5), every time I heard the word 'birth' or 'born', I immediately spaced out and envisioned a lone jackal, standing on a hill, in utter blackness (save for the red sky in the background), lifting its head to howl at the sky. Which is somewhat eerie, as I learned about the word 'jackal' at about age 9 or so.

That doesn't prove anything, your brain picks off countless details you don't remember and when you were a child, you might have seen such an image and daydreamed. And knowing the word and knowing the thing is very different, because babies might see a cat and still be incapable of speaking.

And, of course, you might be exaggerating or wanting to believe something so strongly you actually think its true.

zerombr
2009-04-29, 05:14 PM
'course it is. If you're a reasonable person, you're joking. If you actually believe any of this crap, joke's on you.

this is now an officially recognized thread, now that we have our very own troll :smallsigh:

as for me, honestly, I dunno if my dream or whatever was anything at all, it could be my subconscious, as a previous poster said. No telling till we're dead, maybe not even then.

so please do us a favor, take your crap elsewhere

Arachu
2009-04-29, 05:28 PM
I hadn't ever seen a jackal until I was 9. I thought I went over that. :smallconfused:

Plus, that doesn't explain why I associated the image with the word 'birth'.

Not to mention, the 'random thought' theory doesn't cover it all. I remembered parts of the battle of Thessaly (a Greek city-state) while I read about the battle of Thermopylae (did I spell that right?). Which also wasn't random, or guesswork, because shortly after Thermopylae, the Persians reached Thessaly.

I also remember something about a fat Xerxes, but I suppose my mind just decided it would contradict the ever-precise 300 :smallamused:

zerombr
2009-04-29, 05:32 PM
I also remember something about a fat Xerxes, but I suppose my mind just decided it would contradict the ever-precise 300 :smallamused:

you're on the mark with the horrible "Meet the Spartans" however

edit: It was horrible, nothing but gay jokes all the way through. "See these tough guys? they're gay." and ten minutes later, "They do all sorts of gay stuff, see?" and then "See how gay they are?" ending with the penultimate "They even die gay." :smalleek:

Q: how much bashing can you do in a single movie, and keep it funny?

A: something less than "meet the spartans"

Arachu
2009-04-29, 05:35 PM
I hadn't seen Meet the Spartans yet, either.

I did at some point, though. Parts could get okay, but ultimately those jokes wore themselves out...

Well, back to the actual topic...

Mad Mask
2009-04-29, 06:51 PM
Here's a question for those who believe in past lives: how do you remember it ? And how is it a "past life" ? You come from the sperm and ovum of your parents, and your brain was formed in the gestation process. No contact with any dead people.


I hadn't ever seen a jackal until I was 9. I thought I went over that. :smallconfused:

Plus, that doesn't explain why I associated the image with the word 'birth'.

Maybe you don't remember correctly, you invented the whole thing, or you saw something once and it stayed in your subconscious.


Not to mention, the 'random thought' theory doesn't cover it all. I remembered parts of the battle of Thessaly (a Greek city-state) while I read about the battle of Thermopylae (did I spell that right?). Which also wasn't random, or guesswork, because shortly after Thermopylae, the Persians reached Thessaly.

That has nothing to do with past lives. You probably read something about Thessaly, and it could be just a coincidence.


I also remember something about a fat Xerxes, but I suppose my mind just decided it would contradict the ever-precise 300 :smallamused:

I'm absolutely sure it is because you read or saw something about a fat Xerxes, not that you had a past life and met the guy.

Ego Slayer
2009-04-29, 06:55 PM
C'mon, guys. Let's not get an interesting discussion locked. Respectfully disagree. :smalleek:

I never considered having past lives, but... I don't feel like this is my only life. More like that I want future lives because we only live for such a short period of time and I need to know what happens in the future (I kinda have a fear of death in general). I sorta look at it this way... someone is going to be alive in the future. Someone is going see everything. Someone is going to experience it... maybe I'll be that someone and experience it. It's really hard to explain. Not so much that the future person's consciousness is mine, but that it in itself exists.

If I recall correctly from my class on Dreams, there was a bit about how in Hindu belief dreaming was sort of this state between life in death, so when you were young you could still see your past life, and then as you grew old and closer to death, then you could see parts of the afterlife/your future life. Think that's kinda cool.

InaVegt
2009-04-29, 06:57 PM
Here's a question for those who believe in past lives: how do you remember it ? And how is it a "past life" ? You come from the sperm and ovum of your parents, and your brain was formed in the gestation process. No contact with any dead people.

There's such a thing as a soul...

Mad Mask
2009-04-29, 07:00 PM
There's such a thing as a soul...

What is it composed of ? How does it interact with the brain ? How did it come into existence ?

And more importantly: How do you know that ?

The Rose Dragon
2009-04-29, 07:01 PM
There's such a thing as a soul...

Ooooh, let's not go there. Someone will ask you to define soul and things will get all bad and... bad.

I never had a past life, I'm sure. I'll never have a future life, either. When (or preferably "if") I die, I'll be dead. No Disney death for me.

((Although cryonics isn't looking too bad - it just needs vast improvements.))

((Also, why do I keep misspelling cryo- "cyro"? Something to do with pyro-, I guess.))

EDIT: Oh, apparently things already got bad.

Command - Z! Command -Z!

Ego Slayer
2009-04-29, 07:02 PM
What is it composed of ? How does it interact with the brain ? How did it come into existence ?

And more importantly: How do you know that ?
I think that falls under faith.
Which we shouldn't get into, but she has a point, nonetheless, as far as someone's personal explanation goes.

And tbh, I don't know if there's any real argument here. You can't really argue with scientific fact if what you're arguing against has nothing to DO with fact. It's belief, it's spiritual, it exceeds fact. Right? :smallconfused:

Mad Mask
2009-04-29, 07:03 PM
Ooooh, let's not go there. Someone will ask you to define soul and things will get all bad and... bad.

Oops...

You must be some sort of psychic.

The Rose Dragon
2009-04-29, 07:04 PM
Oops...

You must be some sort of psychic.

I guess it would be kinda silly if I say "I don't believe in psychic, or most paranormal, phenomenon". :smalltongue:

Helanna
2009-04-29, 07:57 PM
Ever notice that people who claim to remember past lives never remember stuff like "I was a serf during the Middle Ages. I farmed my entire life, was never more than 20 miles away from where I was born and I died at age 28 of the common cold"? No, it's always stuff like "I took part in this great battle, and met this great commander, and witnessed this great event". I want to hear from the serfs!

That said, I personally don't believe in past lives. They just seem . . . fake, like people want to believe it so badly that they're tricking themselves into thinking that it's true. However, I don't claim to have any definitive knowledge on any of it, so I'm not going to make any claims.

Arachu
2009-04-29, 08:32 PM
Well, to be fair, "I was a common man" doesn't quite amount to "Some guy stabbed me". Taking part in battles is just something people would remember.

Plus, there are people who had normal lives (diplomatically inserts "they say"...). Some woman (I forgot her name) claimed to have been a person who lived a perfectly ordinary life... Since she was 5. She knew details only she could have known, and she even sought out her 6 or so children, all of whom were skeptics, and convinced them using said details. Meh, just thought I'd provide an example...

As for me, the only ordinary life I actually remember was my most recent, where I lived in America, worked at some factory or another for a while, and had blonde hair. And that's the sum of what I actually remember, as everyday details tend to escape people.

Anyway, why don't we end the arguments and actually get back to the start of the thread? Remember when Crixon mentioned something about helping him remember, and stories? I also remember this :smalltongue:

Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier... A lot of memories surface randomly. A. Lot. But once they start, they usually continue at a decent pace*.

*By some unnaturally patient person's definition of 'decent'

Ego Slayer
2009-04-29, 08:53 PM
Plus, there are people who had normal lives (diplomatically inserts "they say"...). Some woman (I forgot her name) claimed to have been a person who lived a perfectly ordinary life... Since she was 5. She knew details only she could have known, and she even sought out her 6 or so children, all of whom were skeptics, and convinced them using said details. Meh, just thought I'd provide an example...
I believe the women you're talking about is this one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell) Got a handout excerpt from here book from my class. :smallsmile:

Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins
2009-04-29, 09:18 PM
I don't want to spoil your fun or anything, but you should keep in mind that past lives are simply pure fiction, entertaining nonetheless, but still pure fiction, like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Don't become too invested in them.

Fiction? Perhaps. Pure? Perhaps not. For all your science, are you any closer to learning how a man walks, or talks?

Random paraquoting aside, there's no definitively hard proof either way. There's no harm in believing in it, and there's no harm in scoffing at the thought. It's as good an answer as any to life's ultimate mystery.

Personally, I quite like the idea. But I've never had any personal experience with the stuff. Maybe I was a toy maker in past life....

I choose to believe what I was programmed to believe!

Copacetic
2009-04-29, 09:30 PM
Fiction? Perhaps. Pure? Perhaps not. For all your science, are you any closer to learning how a man walks, or talks?

Random paraquoting aside, there's no definitively hard proof either way. There's no harm in believing in it, and there's no harm in scoffing at the thought. It's as good an answer as any to life's ultimate mystery.

Personally, I quite like the idea. But I've never had any personal experience with the stuff. Maybe I was a toy maker in past life....

I choose to believe what I was programmed to believe!

This.

Honestly, I've never had any expirience with past lives or the like.

Collin152
2009-04-29, 10:31 PM
Ever notice that people who claim to remember past lives never remember stuff like "I was a serf during the Middle Ages. I farmed my entire life, was never more than 20 miles away from where I was born and I died at age 28 of the common cold"? No, it's always stuff like "I took part in this great battle, and met this great commander, and witnessed this great event". I want to hear from the serfs!


Well, it's no surprise; we don't have much to brag about or anything of interest to say.
Also: Being a serf sucks. It's not something one tries to remember.

Alleine
2009-04-29, 11:17 PM
Well, it's no surprise; we don't have much to brag about or anything of interest to say.
Also: Being a serf sucks. It's not something one tries to remember.

Well, to be fair I don't think being in a war is something most people want to remember either. I wouldn't know from experience, but most current examples of people in wars ends with them never ever talking about it and being changed for the worse. Maybe people who went to war way back when were very different psychologically, maybe not.

As for belief in past lives, I have no desire to remember them if I ever had any. This one is fun* enough for me. Besides, there are more people residing in the world right now than ever before, right? Some of us have to be new arrivals. :smallamused:

*for the opposite of dictionary definitions of fun

Arachu
2009-04-30, 06:06 AM
Yes, but you remember the event pretty much indefinitely. The memory itself stays with you a lot longer than the memory of a normal day.

Regarding how there's more now than there was, multitude theories;

1) Assume animals have souls. Those would also be in circulation, which would be fueled by all the species humans have driven extinct (plus the ones that did it all by themselves)

2) Some theorize that souls are not affected by time, and took it a step further to theorize that souls can move through time. I don't know how that applies, but I figured I would mention it here.

3) At some point, humans covered the world, regardless of where they went on the way. Centuries ago, the death rate was incredibly high. Giving birth was a gamble; both the mother and the child were at least somewhat likely to die in the process. For that matter, not all children could have conceivably been kept out of harm's way.
If we assume that the soul must wait for a time between lives (for whatever reason), then there would be far less souls in circulation now than there used to be, and far more souls in use now than there used to be.
The combination of significantly reduced death rates (over most of the world, at the very least) and the 'circulation' concept (plus the 'animal souls' concept, assuming it true) would mean that far more humans would be alive now than in the past.

Zing!

Mad Mask
2009-04-30, 06:30 AM
Fiction? Perhaps. Pure? Perhaps not. For all your science, are you any closer to learning how a man walks, or talks?

Random paraquoting aside, there's no definitively hard proof either way. There's no harm in believing in it, and there's no harm in scoffing at the thought. It's as good an answer as any to life's ultimate mystery.

I disagree. Past lives are not based on any evidence, and nobody even has a tiny idea on how they could work. As I said earlier, there is no known process by which the personality and memories could travel from person to person. The only thing that could possibly work are ancestral memories, but they are completely different from the discussed concept of reincarnation.

In response to your first paragraph, there is nothing special about walking and talking. Just google "walking biomechanics" and "vocal folds".

And why do people choose the unknowable concept of reincarnation ? I am not well versed into neurology and psychology, but I think it is because most people want to believe in the supernatural at all costs.

^: these are not theories, these are guesses. Theories require at least some degree of proof, while these have none. And "souls" cannot be defined, and as such cannot be used until someone defines them.

Quincunx
2009-04-30, 07:18 AM
The subconscious memory of a child which absorbs details when paying no attention at all to the media on the display, overlaid with a lack of understanding, can produce some wondrous stories. It's creative, and precious, the furthest thing from plagiarism, and not a memory but a story. Go back to, say, the music videos of the time you were a toddler, even if you didn't consciously watch them at the time, and see what images from your 'past life' stories spring up on the screen. The story of the bridge--give us zerombr's birth year and we'll find out what media was most likely absorbed by his young mind.


That doesn't prove anything, your brain picks off countless details you don't remember and when you were a child, you might have seen such an image and daydreamed. And knowing the word and knowing the thing is very different, because babies might see a cat and still be incapable of speaking.

And, of course, you might be exaggerating or wanting to believe something so strongly you actually think its true.

Ego Slayer: It's not permissible on this board, but it is allowed to apply reason to faith in order to narrow the gap that faith must vault. Imagine taking Arachu's three assumptions and being able to narrow them down to just one leap of faith, with logic taking the rest of the stress of the structure. (Actually, he has four assumptions with the assumption of the soul, but that one can't be eliminated with reason--Aquinas doesn't satisfy me--so it'd drop to two. (heaving a sigh a la the Spanish Inquisition) Of the three auxiliary assumptions Arachu introduces, etc. . . . )

GoC
2009-04-30, 07:25 AM
The only past life I remember is when I was a Macedonian king and went around conquering other countries.

averagejoe
2009-04-30, 07:32 AM
Fiction? Perhaps. Pure? Perhaps not. For all your science, are you any closer to learning how a man walks, or talks?

Random paraquoting aside, there's no definitively hard proof either way. There's no harm in believing in it, and there's no harm in scoffing at the thought. It's as good an answer as any to life's ultimate mystery.

Personally, I quite like the idea. But I've never had any personal experience with the stuff. Maybe I was a toy maker in past life....

I choose to believe what I was programmed to believe!

Wait... we know how a man walks and talks. I mean, mostly I agree with your overall point, but these things are well understood. (I disagree somewhat with your characterization of science, but I would argue that "there's no definitively hard proof either way. There's no harm in believing in it, and there's no harm in scoffing at the thought." is actually, in my opinion, the most scientific view on the matter.)

zerombr
2009-04-30, 08:14 AM
The story of the bridge--give us zerombr's birth year and we'll find out what media was most likely absorbed by his young mind.


1977, good sir.

Crixon
2009-04-30, 09:35 AM
Well for some things i would be inclined to agree, but how can i remember being a female, with all the feelings as if i was in my own body right now? I dont want to add to an arguement or anything, but i figured i would just toss that out there,

But ya i definately thought of meditation, just i am kinda nervous i suppose at what i might find out, i suspect i know how i died in the above life and im not entirely sure i want to relive that .... i know i would be strong enough to survive it but i also suspect i am OLD that ive been around for along time, tis why i want to find out .... maybe relive life as a dinosaur? :P never know, but thats why i want to learn to do this, i had an image of the aforementioned life just pop into my mind, i was just sitting at work at my desk and all of a sudden i saw myself, ive never had anyhting like that before, and it felt differnt then any of my day dreams that i have, if you havent had it happen i dont think you could really understand what it feels like, im clairvoiant and i know what those dreams feel like and this felt very very similer to them just, a slight differnt feeling to it,

Zincorium
2009-04-30, 10:11 AM
I don't believe that memories of past lives are a complete impossibility, however, they cannot simply exist without a great many other things also being true.

There isn't a single thing on this thread that legitimately 'could not have been known otherwise'. IF something can be verified by historical records, then those historical records become the probable source of that information, and thus, it could have been known legitimately. If nothing exists to corroborate it, then those details may be fictional constructs.

If you accept that someone could create a false memory of another life, but maintain that there are also real memories from another life that can be unearthed, you have to have a way to distinguish them.

How about it? What would you say is the dividing characteristic?

Alleine
2009-04-30, 10:27 AM
1) Assume animals have souls. Those would also be in circulation, which would be fueled by all the species humans have driven extinct (plus the ones that did it all by themselves)

2) Some theorize that souls are not affected by time, and took it a step further to theorize that souls can move through time. I don't know how that applies, but I figured I would mention it here.

3) At some point, humans covered the world, regardless of where they went on the way. Centuries ago, the death rate was incredibly high. Giving birth was a gamble; both the mother and the child were at least somewhat likely to die in the process. For that matter, not all children could have conceivably been kept out of harm's way.
If we assume that the soul must wait for a time between lives (for whatever reason), then there would be far less souls in circulation now than there used to be, and far more souls in use now than there used to be.
The combination of significantly reduced death rates (over most of the world, at the very least) and the 'circulation' concept (plus the 'animal souls' concept, assuming it true) would mean that far more humans would be alive now than in the past.

Zing!

I'm really not sure what you're saying with #1. Are you just saying souls are in circulation? If so, then ok, that makes sense.

As for #2, I can maybe believe in past lives. Maybe. The moment you say souls are not bound by time I will begin to ignore you(granted this isn't you saying it, you're saying other people are theorizing it) simply because I cannot conceive of the notion at all. I am bound by time, saying something so common as a soul is not bound in such a way is unfathomable to me. Its like telling a two dimensional creature there is a third dimension. Clearly to them it is a ridiculous assumption and you are either crazy or a liar. There is only one exception to my believing this sort of thing but it is not board appropriate.

I honestly can't understand what you said with #3. Perhaps its just that its the morning and I just woke up so I'm not at full mental functionality, but I've read it three times and I still can't understand what you mean. Could you simplify it please?

Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins
2009-04-30, 05:52 PM
Wait... we know how a man walks and talks. I mean, mostly I agree with your overall point, but these things are well understood. (I disagree somewhat with your characterization of science, but I would argue that "there's no definitively hard proof either way. There's no harm in believing in it, and there's no harm in scoffing at the thought." is actually, in my opinion, the most scientific view on the matter.)

... I was paraphrasing a quote from Futurama in that first paragraph (to make the quote more functional, since no one has said 'mumbo jumbo' or talked about robots in this thread yet). For no real reason. It's kind of what I do. I thought the 'Random para-quoting aside' bit would tell people that. And also that last bit.

golentan
2009-04-30, 07:59 PM
For the record, most of my past lives were crapsacks. I think my best two before the industrial revolution were: "Freelance Agent" in Paris and springboarding service in the roman legions (as a quartermaster) into a career as an accountant. Pretty much the other 8000 years have been dying before the age of 5 or living to be old enough to dig ditches. I gave up trying to teach people interesting things and designs long ago, because the response was usually "If you're so smart, if you've come up with a better tool for digging ditches, why are you digging ditches?"

I don't know, genius, maybe because you are standing over me with a whip and won't let me at the metal to build the GORRAM GEAR!

Sequinox
2009-04-30, 08:16 PM
I don't want to spoil your fun or anything, but you should keep in mind that past lives are simply pure fiction, entertaining nonetheless, but still pure fiction, like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Don't become too invested in them.

Santa and the Easter bunny... Aren't real?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaa
not really. I just felt like being funny. Or not funny. Whichever.
Anyway, past lives... I'm not sure. I can't bring myself to believe in it, but it's interesting.

Mad Mask
2009-04-30, 08:19 PM
For the record, most of my past lives were crapsacks. I think my best two before the industrial revolution were: "Freelance Agent" in Paris and springboarding service in the roman legions (as a quartermaster) into a career as an accountant. Pretty much the other 8000 years have been dying before the age of 5 or living to be old enough to dig ditches. I gave up trying to teach people interesting things and designs long ago, because the response was usually "If you're so smart, if you've come up with a better tool for digging ditches, why are you digging ditches?"

I don't know, genius, maybe because you are standing over me with a whip and won't let me at the metal to build the GORRAM GEAR!

I think that you have those "memories" because either you are oppressed, you are a pessimist or you are depressed. I wouldn't consider the prospect that those are past lives; it might distract you from the real problem.

Either that, or you are an individual who likes grittiness and/or you are inventing the whole thing.

golentan
2009-04-30, 08:49 PM
I think that you have those "memories" because either you are oppressed, you are a pessimist or you are depressed. I wouldn't consider the prospect that those are past lives; it might distract you from the real problem.

Either that, or you are an individual who likes grittiness and/or you are inventing the whole thing.

I'm not depressed, at least not now. I'm not oppressed (I'm free, have freedom of choice, and am supported), and I'm most emphatically an optimist.

I'm fairly confident these are real memories. I can't speak for anyone else, because I have not had sufficient evidence either that people don't reincarnate OR that they do. But I can assure you I do not reincarnate (so far, only ~140 years before time is up on this lease). I've lived many many lifetimes. And I've been around a long time. And I've seen enough weird sh** that I'm ruling nothing out.

Rationalists irritate me. Occam's razor irritates me more. Anyone not willing to accept that there might be a more complicated solution, or one outside their worldview, irritates me. And anyone who tries to impose their worldview on another irritates me most of all. Who are the psychologists to determine who is sane, who are the neuroscientists to speak on the nature of consciousness? Why are politicians entitled to comment on scientific discoveries? Psychologists should help those who ask for behavioral help, not declare something to be ill if it is functional (from the point of view of the person). Neuroscientists should say the brain works in X manner, and figure out more about it's mechanisms and complex networking. Doing so may one day entitle them to comment on the existence of some assumptions about the mind, but never about the nature of consciousness. Politicians should be able to decide whether a technology arising from a discovery should be employed, but should never be allowed to edit or deny the discovery itself.

If it's easier for the scientific method to work in exclusion with assumptions on tangentially related subject (it usually is) by all means exclude those assumptions. Minimize variables for a could test. But don't you DARE tell me that what makes for a good experiment makes the model true. One of the things I've found is the more someone studies the world, the less likely they are to assume their model explains it. OF COURSE you keep the model, it gives you useful stuff and can continue to be improved. But assuming you know everything is the sort of trap that can easily keep you from adding the next vital component.

Alteran
2009-04-30, 09:28 PM
I'm not depressed, at least not now. I'm not oppressed (I'm free, have freedom of choice, and am supported), and I'm most emphatically an optimist.

I'm fairly confident these are real memories. I can't speak for anyone else, because I have not had sufficient evidence either that people don't reincarnate OR that they do. But I can assure you I do not reincarnate (so far, only ~140 years before time is up on this lease). I've lived many many lifetimes. And I've been around a long time. And I've seen enough weird sh** that I'm ruling nothing out.

Rationalists irritate me. Occam's razor irritates me more. Anyone not willing to accept that there might be a more complicated solution, or one outside their worldview, irritates me. And anyone who tries to impose their worldview on another irritates me most of all. Who are the psychologists to determine who is sane, who are the neuroscientists to speak on the nature of consciousness? Why are politicians entitled to comment on scientific discoveries? Psychologists should help those who ask for behavioral help, not declare something to be ill if it is functional (from the point of view of the person). Neuroscientists should say the brain works in X manner, and figure out more about it's mechanisms and complex networking. Doing so may one day entitle them to comment on the existence of some assumptions about the mind, but never about the nature of consciousness. Politicians should be able to decide whether a technology arising from a discovery should be employed, but should never be allowed to edit or deny the discovery itself.

If it's easier for the scientific method to work in exclusion with assumptions on tangentially related subject (it usually is) by all means exclude those assumptions. Minimize variables for a could test. But don't you DARE tell me that what makes for a good experiment makes the model true. One of the things I've found is the more someone studies the world, the less likely they are to assume their model explains it. OF COURSE you keep the model, it gives you useful stuff and can continue to be improved. But assuming you know everything is the sort of trap that can easily keep you from adding the next vital component.

Your comment of


Psychologists should help those who ask for behavioral help, not declare something to be ill if it is functional (from the point of view of the person).

is one I can't agree with. If somebody is dangerous to others, they need help, regardless of what they think. If you become a threat to others, you no longer have the right do decide everything that you will do. Many seriously ill people are functional from their point of view. Those who are fully functional are rarely (if ever) subjected to mandatory therapy, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

It sounds obvious, but rationalists are, well, rational. It makes sense to assume that the simplest answer is the correct one. This doesn't necessarily mean denying the possibility of more complicated or unlikely answers, but it also doesn't mean assuming they're correct. I can't see the logic behind accepting a solution because you feel it's right, especially when it's obviously the one you want to be right. With past lives especially, I feel that confirmation bias plays a huge part. Whether or not past lives exist, I'm have a feeling that most people who think they remember them are making it up, whether consciously or not. I've learned about how memory works (to a degree), and one thing that's amazed me is how much it can fabricate. Of course, people think these fabrications are real. The main thing that these fabrications do is fill in things you don't quite remember, so it has to be convincing. It doesn't matter how sure somebody is that a memory is real, certainty has proven to be a poor judge of accuracy.

The fact that most people who have "memories" of past lives speak of being important people with interesting lives makes this much more true. I know people are saying they remember many lives of drudgery as well, but that's the sort of thing that comes up after somebody mentions what I just said about "remembering" more interesting lives. There are also people who just shrug off these comments and say that one wouldn't remember the less interesting lives. This may have some merit, but it seems like a cop-out to me.

To be entirely honest, I find the idea of past lives a bit disheartening. The idea that new people aren't created, merely cycled through new bodies, isn't a particularly appealing one to me. I'd hate to think that throughout time we're just the same people in different situations. It would also show just how suggestible and malleable we are, since there has obviously been extreme cultural change throughout human history. Are we really defined only by our surroundings? Could your next-door neighbor who works at a bank really have been a torturer in middle-age Europe? I know people can be made to do very harsh things if they're made to consider them acceptable, but I'd prefer to think (I'm biased too, of course) that we're more than a little seed of personality that changes and grows to fit whatever world we find ourselves in. I'd like to think we have more individuality than that.

Winterwind
2009-04-30, 09:46 PM
I find past lives quite fascinating, though probably not in the sense you have in mind.

Specifically, I consider them a very interesting example of self-brain-washing - people playing around with a particular fantasy for long enough until they can no longer tell it apart from reality, and are not even aware it began as a mere fantasy. Just like witnesses to accidents tend to, with absolute conviction, believe in details that are, actually, completely made up. The brain filling gaps or focusing on a particular idea, until it becomes an actual memory imprint.

Scary as it might be, I think observing such feats of the human brain is awesome. :smallcool:

Mewtarthio
2009-04-30, 09:51 PM
But I can assure you I do not reincarnate (so far, only ~140 years before time is up on this lease). I've lived many many lifetimes.

:confused:

Are you saying that you're immortal or something?

chiasaur11
2009-04-30, 10:26 PM
:confused:

Are you saying that you're immortal or something?

He's either a Highland immortal, or a Vampire.

Either way, chop off his head. To be safe.

Collin152
2009-04-30, 11:04 PM
You know, I was once the king of Spain.

Glyde
2009-04-30, 11:08 PM
It may have already been said and it might be off topic, but Dream Theater's album Metroplis Pt2: Scenes from a Memory is all about this stuff. Pretty cool thing to look into if you're interested.

golentan
2009-04-30, 11:15 PM
If somebody is dangerous to others, they need help, regardless of what they think. If you become a threat to others, you no longer have the right do decide everything that you will do. Many seriously ill people are functional from their point of view. Those who are fully functional are rarely (if ever) subjected to mandatory therapy, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here.


No, if somebody is dangerous to others, society has a right to place them where they are no longer a threat to others. It does not have the right to change them against their will except in extreme cases (no other way of removing the threat). And I didn't say they have a right to act as they desire. They have a right to be themselves without interference if they prefer that mode. There is a difference.

Oh, and that "Fully Functional" line: Defined by the people I feel have no right to define it. So you're right, if you use that definition.

@^^:Neither. And chopping off my head will irritate me. I'm not hostile or even particularly inimical. Please let me live out my remaining decades in peace.

Alteran
2009-04-30, 11:25 PM
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "change against their will". Could you please clarify?

chiasaur11
2009-04-30, 11:28 PM
You know, I was once the king of Spain.

Yeah, but only on a technicality.

And thanks to a certain meddling Half-vampire PI, the events no longer exist.

SDF
2009-05-01, 12:02 AM
The idea of past lives falls apart when you consider things like there are more people now than there have ever been.

Trizap
2009-05-01, 12:07 AM
I don't really know.....I could have been Thomas Edison and Nicola Tesla at the same time................it was fun competing against myself..........still can't really decide if AC or DC is better.

I loved writing the Foundation trilogy.........so well thought out......

Trizap
2009-05-01, 12:11 AM
The idea of past lives falls apart when you consider things like there are more people now than there have ever been.

no, it really doesn't.

it just means the people with past lives grows in proportion to the people who don't, the next generation filled half with people who don't have previous lives and the other half, people who do, its very simple.

Illiterate Scribe
2009-05-01, 01:06 AM
I was Rich Burlew in a past life.

chiasaur11
2009-05-01, 01:13 AM
I was Rich Burlew in a past life.

Don't hold out, then.

Tell us how it ends!

Wishpig
2009-05-01, 01:29 AM
I don't beleave in past lives... seems to far fetched.

But I do beleave the bubble universe or the endless universe theory might be real.

Which means theres an infinite amount of possibilties. Which means somewhere out there, I'm typing on my computer, and everything is the excat same, but I have one grey hair in my beard...

Then of that means that somewhere out there I was a millionare, but died yesterday in a car crash.

Everything must happen, because everything is infinite.

Kinda like past lives... maybe...

Illiterate Scribe
2009-05-01, 01:42 AM
Don't hold out, then.

Tell us how it ends!

Not yet. It's pretty frickin' sweet though.

TheBST
2009-05-01, 03:54 AM
it just means the people with past lives grows in proportion to the people who don't, the next generation filled half with people who don't have previous lives and the other half, people who do, its very simple.

See, that just raises further questions!

If some of us have past lives and some of us don't, then some people will have more past lives than others, some may only get one life, some may be on their first, some may be on their last- who or what determines how many lives a person gets?. Where are souls made for a persons first life, how many lives does the average person get and what causes a soul to finally clap out and not get another life?

For past lives to exist would require the existence of a soul- and since this is essentially reincarnation restricted to your own species- how much of the soul' personality is retained from life to life? And since a migratory soul bends the laws of physics- wouldn't this whole thing require a deity's intervention to work?

At what point does this become a lot of silly bullcrap that we just made up?

Ceska
2009-05-01, 04:12 AM
One was somewhere between 900 and 1300 BC. I was a Aztec high priest of Toltec. I lived and died single. Never had a crime record.
Huh? There were no Aztecs before christ...

Wishpig
2009-05-01, 04:23 AM
At what point does this become a lot of silly bullcrap that we just made up?
That point was passed a while ago! :smallwink:

Sholos
2009-05-01, 05:03 AM
Heh heh. I love the fact that the wiki page linked on the previous page has this (http://www.csicop.org/sb/9803/reincarnation.html) in the external links section. Pretty much sums up my opinion on people "remembering" past lives.

Also, with regards to putting people into therapy against their will, that only happens when the person is truly incompetent. That is, they are unable to make rational decisions designed to further their life in some manner. When you have a person who is truly convinced that the aliens are controlling everyone around him, and acts on tis belief, then you've got someone who needs therapy.

@golentan: Consider this. If Occam's Razor is worthless, there is no reason for you not to think that this site is really being run by the government solely to keep tabs on you. In fact, every site you visit is run by the government to keep tabs on you. Now, Occam's Razor gives a reason to not believe this. What's yours?

Dallas-Dakota
2009-05-01, 05:11 AM
Huh? There were no Aztecs before christ...
:smallconfused:

Yes, there were.

There have been signs that they existed at 3000 B.C.
They started a 600/300(don't know out of head precisely) year long wandering for a new home, because of a sign given by one of their gods at 1600 B.C., settling in at what curently is Mexico City.

Ceska
2009-05-01, 05:38 AM
:smallconfused:

Yes, there were.

There have been signs that they existed at 3000 B.C.
They started a 600/300(don't know out of head precisely) year long wandering for a new home, because of a sign given by one of their gods at 1600 B.C., settling in at what curently is Mexico City.
1. Those are not Aztecs. Well it's probably like calling the various tribes around Latium in 2000-1500 bc romans.
2. That started around the eleventh century ad.

Quincunx
2009-05-01, 05:53 AM
golentan: What duties do the people who can react to the world as it is (henceforth abbreviated as 'sane') have to help the people who are not capable of perceiving the world as it is ('disabled' or 'insane' depending on the location of the error) or who receive the proper input but assemble it wrongly ('too young to understand'* or, again, 'insane')? Shutting them all together in an asylum is giving them fish daily. Trying to unpick what has gone wrong in their perceptions and reactions, and fixing it when possible, is teaching them to fish--whether they acknowledge the need of it or not.

On topic: I have had the vivid memories, but I never called them 'past lives'--and what's more, I've unpicked the references leading to them--Poe crossed with National Geographic via re-runs of 3-2-1 Contact (and I have no memories of ever having watched that); family reunion** crossed with Nature (not Wild America). If there is any practical use in literary deconstruction, this analysis of dreams is it.

zerombr: I'm surprised you're a bit older than I am--elders of the geek message board unite--wish I still had the Doonesbury collections at hand to better name the cultural references. The road doesn't look so ominous during the day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chappaquiddick_house.jpg), and I can only get an approximation of its nighttime look here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arUqoKjU3D4), and for the life of me I can't tell you why the vision's a bridge with a higher center construction looming over the car!

I'll also cheerfully dispute both the "good" and the "sir". :smallwink:

*Our brains aren't done developing at age 18, and that goes double for the lagging higher-order connectivity of the ADD crowd.

**confirmed that it occurred, afterwards lapsing into a spiel about What Some Ungrateful Cousin Did that I didn't care about then or now. . .

Arachu
2009-05-01, 06:53 AM
@CSK: Romans lived in Italy. Their ancestors also lived in Italy (and maybe in Troy, but I dunno). Aztecs lived in the Americas. A thousand years before they reached Tenochtitlan, they were probably still in the modern-day United States, maybe even Canada (It's a part of history I haven't memorized (too busy with the Eastern half of the world...)

@Golentan: THANK. YOU. Perhaps some people are genuinely dangerous (which I'm not disputing), but this concept of insanity spreads to be applied to the different. In other words, that which is different; he who thinks differently, is perceived as insane.
And yes, people who impose their opinions on other people are extremely annoying. See, I remembered that part :smallcool:

I understand, the skeptics haven't seen these memories, and maybe that gives them the right not to believe the idea. But that's just it; they haven't seen the memories. They haven't actually had the memories. Sure, they can disbelieve it, and they can think whatever they want of it, but they can't judge people like they so often do. I mean, they can, conceivably, but they shouldn't.

... I wonder if there really is antimatter... I'm not sure... Meh.

Oh, and I'm not saying souls are time travelers, but I figured I'd mention it.
I remembered that too :smalltongue:

Sholos
2009-05-01, 12:11 PM
One was somewhere between 900 and 1300 BC. I was a Aztec high priest of Toltec. I lived and died single. Never had a crime record.
On another note, how did you come to a range from 1300-900 B.C.? Nevermind how huge a range that is, the Aztecs didn't use B.C.

@Arachu: Would you consider someone who very seriously believes that aliens are controlling everyone around him to be "sane"?

Mando Knight
2009-05-01, 12:33 PM
And since a migratory soul bends the laws of physics- wouldn't this whole thing require a deity's intervention to work?

Isn't the concept of a incorporeal spirit outside the normal laws of physics anyway?

Jkoshe
2009-05-01, 05:31 PM
I think there is some sort of reincarnation more then past lives, It's not bound be species or anything of that sort. As for me I haven't had any experience with past lives but I think they may exist.

Illiterate Scribe
2009-05-01, 05:54 PM
I wonder if there really is antimatter.

Yeah, there is.

GoC
2009-05-01, 08:05 PM
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "change against their will". Could you please clarify?

Yeah, I'm curious about this too...
When does it become forcing someone to change their minds? Should we shield them from facts that disagree with their worldview?

Arachu: As past experiences have indicated, even when I'm really really really sure I'm remembering correctly I can be wrong.

Mad Mask
2009-05-01, 08:09 PM
I think there is some sort of reincarnation more then past lives, It's not bound be species or anything of that sort. As for me I haven't had any experience with past lives but I think they may exist.

Why do you think that ?

Graymayre
2009-05-01, 08:11 PM
Personally, I do not believe in past lives. I follow the doctrine of psychology, in which such things are explained through the wonderful world of the subconscious.

However, I intend to live forever using nanotechnology, so it really isn't a problem for me.

Now that I think about it, if we live in an infinite multiverse, then that means there is a universe where the laws of past lives actually work. So, I guess it's true in that sense? :smallconfused:

GoC
2009-05-01, 09:21 PM
Now that I think about it, if we live in an infinite multiverse, then that means there is a universe where the laws of past lives actually work. So, I guess it's true in that sense? :smallconfused:

Not necessarily. Those infinite number of universe could simply be different arrangements of atoms and of different sized but with the same laws of physics.

Turcano
2009-05-01, 11:06 PM
Ever notice that people who claim to remember past lives never remember stuff like "I was a serf during the Middle Ages. I farmed my entire life, was never more than 20 miles away from where I was born and I died at age 28 of the common cold"?

Even more rarely do you hear things like, "In a past life, I was an artichoke. I spent my life absorbing water and carbon dioxide and expelling oxygen before being killed for my succulent heart-meats."

golentan
2009-05-02, 12:17 AM
AIEE!!! Been away from computer too long.

@Alteran: A person likes their mindset. Under the mental health system (in america), if they are declared insane, they may be locked up for a 3 day observation period and recommended medications. If they refuse the medication, they have the legal right to do so: HOWEVER they will be labeled as non-cooperative and may be taken to court (without their consent or involvement as they have been declared incompetent to stand up in court and argue their competence) to have the period extended. This can be done indefinitely. And if you have never been in a mental health institution, I can assure you it is not conducive to building healthy relationship, job, or other skills. I am talking about a system that is capable of holding someone hostage until they agree to take mind altering drugs.

@SDF: Only if you assume it's a closed system. The idea that minds are capable of entering or leaving the system is common to many forms of reincarnation.

@Sholos: I believe that because I have faith in humanity, and am too tired to be paranoid. If there is a conspiracy, I can't see it's point or how it is particularly harmful, so WTH? And I like believing in people. Which I continue to do regardless of whether Occam's Razor tells me it's wise. In short: In light of evidence, I will act in favor of the evidence. In absence of evidence, or where the evidence ceases, I will act as if the world is the way I wish it to be while seeking evidence.

@Quincunx: The thing is, from what I've seen, the metaphor is flawed. Those people you're giving fish, or teaching to fish? They don't eat fish. They find the idea revolting. Sure, it's good for society if they can get these people to give them fish, but they don't really have the right to do so. There are people who want help, who want to fit into the world and be nice little neurotypicals. And they should be helped. They should have the opportunity to achieve that goal. But the others, who wind up in the asylums, or in the gutters, or worse? They're there for one of two reasons. Either the system has failed them, by providing them without real marketable skills and offering help only at the cost of 200 dollars a month outpatient (cost of a typical current gen antipsychotic), or a whopping 700+ a DAY inpatient. Or, more commonly, they do not want to be helped.

If you want a painful dissection of how our mental health system has FAILED, and it's reforms have FAILED, for the last several hundred years; I can send you a PM. But I'm prone to ranting, and any product which is even mildly in depth will not be board safe.

@GoC: No. I think healthy discussion is the cornerstone of any good worldview. If it can't survive contact with other ideas, it was probably a pretty crappy idea. I'm talking about people who don't want to undergo corrective pharmacology (see above), or are forced to join some form of state religion, or are given a "reeducation" of some sort (hint, if it involves locking up the people you're educating to keep them from running away: You're going to bad places), or anything similar. Or have things set up so while they technically have the option on any of these things, they are denied reasonable rights.

Randel
2009-05-02, 12:46 AM
While I have no memories of past lives, I find the prospect of reincarnation to be a bit more comforting than most other options for an afterlife.

If reincarnation is how it works:

1). Live a life that you wouldn't mind remembering later.

2). Try to improve the world in whatever way you can, so that hopefully no matter who or what you are reincarnated as it will be that much better than it would have been otherwise.

Oh, and if animals are part of the whole reincarnation cycle... who cares? If my next life turns out to be farm animal in Texas, then I'd probably be too stupid to care about reincarnation until I get butchered... at which point its back to the big slot machine in the sky to see what comes next. If I come back as a redwood tree... well, I might get stuck there for a while until somebody cuts me down (which could stink because I might be stuck there for a few thousand years and miss all the cool video games that will be made in the mean time).

Not that I'm saying we should go out cutting down all the old-growth trees and planting new ones to speed up the cycle of life a bit... but really what do trees have to look forward to other than getting bigger until they start blocking the sun to other plants beneath them and eventually dying and falling over onto people?

Do a tree a favor and cut it down! That's what they want, that's what they all want! Why can't you hear them? Why can't you hear the souls begging for release from their woody prison?

Graymayre
2009-05-02, 05:40 AM
Not necessarily. Those infinite number of universe could simply be different arrangements of atoms and of different sized but with the same laws of physics.

Most scientists I've talked to, or heard from, agree that there are infinite variations in these universes, including with their physical laws.

(plus, rule of cool demands a worlds where our D&D campaigns actually happened :smallsmile:)

Arachu
2009-05-02, 11:33 PM
@ Sholos: Actually, if life exists on other planets... And it happened to have figured out intergalactic flight... And it chanced across this planet... Said life would almost definitely view us as we view farm animals.
So, assuming that aliens have reached our spec of dust in this particular attic, they would be studying us. Which would confirm at least 50% of most alien theories (and kinda disprove the 'friendly' notion)

... Yeah. That totally held relevance. :smalltongue:


Anyway, back to the topic...

I actually dislike the 'eternal lives' thing (and, if memory serves, it REALLY sucks to get stabbed to death). The concept of some kind of eternal peace sounds preferable, in its own way. But I remember what I do, and I don't hide from these things. Endlessly dying sucks (or am I making that up, too? :smalltongue:), but assuming that I'm correct (and, personally, I do), it's the way of existence.

Though, yes, a fun/relaxing/happy life cycle would be pretty awesome (you'd probably forget most of it, though :smallfrown:)...



... So, how about them Lakers? :smallredface:

GoC
2009-05-03, 04:12 PM
Most scientists I've talked to, or heard from, agree that there are infinite variations in these universes, including with their physical laws.
I'm calling BS on that unless I can get a source.

Prime32
2009-05-03, 04:40 PM
I understand, the skeptics haven't seen these memories, and maybe that gives them the right not to believe the idea. But that's just it; they haven't seen the memories. They haven't actually had the memories. Sure, they can disbelieve it, and they can think whatever they want of it, but they can't judge people like they so often do. I mean, they can, conceivably, but they shouldn't.
I'm a sceptic. I've had "memories" of doing something last week, then I think and realise I wasn't at that place last week and that, in fact, what I remember doing is not physically possible.

I consider the possibilities:

A version of me in an alternate reality experienced these events. A pattern of electrical impulses was somehow removed from his brain, transported across realities, and inserted into my own with surgical precision. This is despite laws of physics working differently, and the other me's brain likely using a slightly different storage format as well. Heck, it would probably be easier just to insert false memories anyway.
A device as complex as the human brain will occasionally have hiccups, especially if it is evolved rather than designed. Lots of people believe crazy things, so this is pretty much proven.

I go with number two - my brain has suffered a buffer overrun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_overrun) and accidentally overwritten part of one memory with another.

Kommandant Wulf
2010-08-03, 01:35 AM
{Scrubbed}

Worira
2010-08-03, 02:29 AM
I like how you say you're a heathen like that's a thing.

EDIT: Oh, and I have clear memories of a particular building I vacationed in as a child. In particular, the stairs downward had splinters the size of breadknives poking up at random and patches of sizzling green slime, not to mention extending downwards into infinity. Also, there was a movie theatre nearby which was haunted. As in actual, man-sized, incorporeal and translucent spectres. Oh, and of course the elevator that led to an enormous underground kingdom.

Now, I've been there since, and seen none of these things. And the people who were there with me say none of them were there at the time. So, I could choose to believe that gremlins changed everything in the intervening time, and cast a magical spell on everyone else to make them lie to me. And yet I don't.

The Succubus
2010-08-03, 04:50 AM
I'm open-minded on this idea. I can't say that I've experienced anything like it myself, although the concept seems fascinating. I do have 2pp to contribute to the discussion though:

Genetic memory: Souls may come and go but genetics is a firmly established scientific concept. It is possible, through the myriad streams of probability that certain memories could be pre-programmed onto DNA and passed on to our children. Vertigo is a good concept of this - genetic memory is suggesting that we can leap across gaps from high places, from our time as monkeys in the trees while our more modern brain is trying to overrule this memory. A similar idea could explain why babies know to hold their breath underwater immediately after being born. I couldn't give you any suggestions as to how this might work - especially not with "death memories" where the process would not have time to be stored, let alone transferred (unless you've found a *really good* way to die :smallwink:).

Souls: A brief look at a potentially touchy subject but one that is purely based on my personal experiences. It occurs to me that one thing that is ever present during a human's life is the idea of consciousness. When we wake, our consciousness makes decisions, analyses sights, sounds, etc. When we sleep, our consciousness dreams, even if we don't remember it. I remember a long time ago, I had an epileptic fit and according to witnesses, I lost consciousness. Even then, I was still *aware* - I could see nothing, feel nothing, hear nothing but my thoughts were still active. Were I to die, would my *awareness* still be there? I'm intruiged but in no rush to find out. :smallconfused:

Ellardin
2010-08-03, 09:49 AM
Well I don't know if this has been said before , but I was once in a study group that talked about such interesting topics , one session a women brought up a technique used at Lilly-dale to get inklings of past lives :

I do not remember the all of it , but sit comfortably in a chair facing another person , closely so you can look into their eyes , then with the intent of looking into their past lives , you are then suppose to see meaningful images and scenes in their eyes , this also serves as a form of meditation , so it also acts as a good relaxation technique .

Telonius
2010-08-03, 09:58 AM
Of course I've had past lives. Probably a good 99% of my atoms were in other living things before finding their way into this particular life form. In fact I'd guess that I have quite a few concurrent lives going on right now, depending on where some of my previous matter ended up.

Serpentine
2010-08-03, 10:02 AM
A friendly reminder re. the rules, particularly those regarding thread necromancy, religion and flaming. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?f=29&a=1)

Quincunx
2010-08-03, 10:16 AM
Well I don't know if this has been said before , but I was once in a study group that talked about such interesting topics , one session a women brought up a technique used at Lilly-dale to get inklings of past lives :

I do not remember the all of it , but sit comfortably in a chair facing another person , closely so you can look into their eyes , then with the intent of looking into their past lives , you are then suppose to see meaningful images and scenes in their eyes , this also serves as a form of meditation , so it also acts as a good relaxation technique .

Divination by blank surfaces (eyeballs, crystal balls, ink pools, etc.) only works if you're easily bored and/or distracted. Do any sort of meditation training, which teaches you how to cope with blank boredom, and bam! no more divinatory projection.

Roland St. Jude
2010-08-03, 05:15 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Thread Necromancy. Also, discussion of real world religion should be avoided on this forum.