Hulk Vs Superman

[Lord Blace]

Superman begins his patrol of Metropolis just like he does everyday. Suddenly, the sound of sirens, and a car with two of Metropolis's finest flies by the man of steel. After catching and setting the car down, Superman asks the officers what's going on but is interrupted by a scream from further downtown, "PUNY PEOPLE LEAVE HULK ALONE!" And without any hesitation our man of steel heads off in a hurry towards our big, green, angry friend.

Who wins in this clash of titans?

[kpenguin]

Which Hulk and which Superman are we talking here?:smallconfused:

[Lord Blace]

For fun, let's use the 90's cartoon version of both. :smallbiggrin:

[Starscream]

They already did this one in Marvel vs. DC. Supes won.

Which makes sense, I guess. They are both so strong that measuring their power is impossible. But Superman can do things Hulk can't as well, including flight, heat vision, super-speed, and (depending on the version of the Hulk), basic multiplication.

[blueblade]

I am assuming that superman is not allowed to use a battlefield removal tactic, like throwing Hulk into space. And that he will act in character, and that most likely neither is going for the kill (believe it or not, in comics, Hulk doesn't kill).

Fun Facts:

Hulk can and has been beaten overwhelming physical damage in the past. Maestro, who was a future and stronger version of himself, showed that to be the case. Abomination has put the hurt on him too, as has Sentry, who fought down his strongest incarnation to date (pretty much).

Superman of course, has also suffered at that level of damage, from Doomsday, Darkseid, Mongul, Konvikt, not to mention other kryptonians. And it is capable of putting him down.

S:TAS was a heavily watered down superman, who I think may even have felt pain from bullets. If you up him to JLU levels, I think it evens the field a little more.

Don't remember cartoon hulk so much, but he was restrained by the leader on occasion, at least temporarily. Also worth noting as a lot of people get this wrong, Hulk doesn't have a 'warm-up' period with regards to rage increasing strength. If he's angrier, he's stronger, it isn't something that takes time. I hear a lot of "If Superman can take him down before he gets too mad, he'll win". It just isn't the case. It also takes a lot to make Hulk truly angry.


Overall, with the incarnations you chose, this is a decent match-up, and I can see a two way knockout scenario extremely similar to Doomsday v Superman. If we assume Supes has been through that experience once before, he may know enough to take the fight to a non-populated area quicker, and to up his game quicker.

[Trizap]

hmmmm.............Hulk vs. superman...............hmmmm........

pretty even match..............I like Hulk better, but logically, superman would win because he is still reasonable during combat, still retaining all his mental faculties while the Hulk becomes pure rage, Superman could find a way to inject some sleeping thingy or something into the Hulk, and since he is strong enough to do it, he could find a sleepy thingy, and use his super-strength to inject it, superman would win, I think.

other than that, even match.

[chiasaur11]

Well, it's hard.

I mean, Batman beat them both, but he needed a special plan for Superman.

[Sholos]

Which comics are you referring to Roumani? Because in the Ultimate series, the Hulk definitely kills people, innocent and villain alike. And I'm pretty sure it's not just the Ultimate series that he kills people in.

RE: Superman being smart and that winning it for him.

Ignoring the fact that Superman isn't all that intelligent, Hulk already fought an intelligent version of himself. He won. Also, it's not so much the strength that's required to penetrate the Hulk's skin, but something hard enough. They had to use adamantium needles to do it in the Ultimate series.

[chiasaur11]

Which comics are you referring to Roumani? Because in the Ultimate series, the Hulk definitely kills people, innocent and villain alike. And I'm pretty sure it's not just the Ultimate series that he kills people in.

RE: Superman being smart and that winning it for him.

Ignoring the fact that Superman isn't all that intelligent, Hulk already fought an intelligent version of himself. He won. Also, it's not so much the strength that's required to penetrate the Hulk's skin, but something hard enough. They had to use adamantium needles to do it in the Ultimate series.

Ultimate Hulk isn't the one in question.

Read WWHulk, or She-Hulk under Slott.

616 Hulk doesn't kill people. Period.

Not that Bendis hasn't mucked it up, but that doesn't count.

[Fan]

I say we should go by WW Hulk as that is by far his most powerful incarnation. WW Hulk, if he got the screaming rage jump on supes, would take him down to the ground, and from their....It's painful. Or if somehow Bruce thought to make armor out of Kyrptonite for Hulk, and then had some chick kick him in the nuts to get angry, and fill the armor to fight him... All depends.

[kpenguin]

I say we should go by WW Hulk as that is by far his most powerful incarnation. WW Hulk, if he got the screaming rage jump on supes, would take him down to the ground, and from their....It's painful. Or if somehow Bruce thought to make armor out of Kyrptonite for Hulk, and then had some chick kick him in the nuts to get angry, and fill the armor to fight him... All depends.

Why do you want to tip this fight toward Hulk so much?

If WW Hulk is being used, then I say Superman Prime is the Superman we use.:smallamused:

[Yulian]

Ultimate Hulk isn't the one in question.

Read WWHulk, or She-Hulk under Slott.

616 Hulk doesn't kill people. Period.

Not that Bendis hasn't mucked it up, but that doesn't count.

That really is one of the stupidest retcons they have pulled lately. It's honestly ludicrous. In fact, at least one issue of Hulk has Doc Samson analyzing himself and recording the session with a voice-changer because he has nightmares about "his" victims, actually people killed by the Hulk, that he feels responsible for, because his actions after first transforming led Banner to re-irradiate himself.

You can't leave swathes of destruction like the Hulk has left and not have at least a few deaths. He has, at the very least, permanently crippled several people.

Also, did Green Scar not kill people on Sakaar? I seem to recall that happening a few times.

In fact...here:
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/piecemealhulk.htm

At least one artificial "person" Hulk deliberately and overtly killed, with a spear.

Let's see...Hulk issue 316, page 3, Dianne Bellamy from the news reports that "Loss of life may yet mount into the hundreds, and property damage has already passed the one billion dollar mark..."

Oh, and finally: http://www.comicvine.com/agent-pratt/29-10045/

Torn to pieces by the Hulk after partially regenerating. Torn to pieces. Deserving or not, Hulk overtly killed this guy, too.

Glenn Talbot died in battle with the Hulk. It's iffy, but he is dead.

The Incredible Hulk #345, Hulk kills Craig Saunders, the Redeemer, by throwing him into Rock's spikes. Yet another dead guy.

So...never killed anyone? Nonsense. Wishful thinking.

- Yulian

[chiasaur11]

That really is one of the stupidest retcons they have pulled lately. It's honestly ludicrous. In fact, at least one issue of Hulk has Doc Samson analyzing himself and recording the session with a voice-changer because he has nightmares about "his" victims, actually people killed by the Hulk, that he feels responsible for, because his actions after first transforming led Banner to re-irradiate himself.

You can't leave swathes of destruction like the Hulk has left and not have at least a few deaths. He has, at the very least, permanently crippled several people.

Also, did Green Scar not kill people on Sakaar? I seem to recall that happening a few times.

In fact...here:
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/piecemealhulk.htm

At least one artificial "person" Hulk deliberately and overtly killed, with a spear.

Let's see...Hulk issue 316, page 3, Dianne Bellamy from the news reports that "Loss of life may yet mount into the hundreds, and property damage has already passed the one billion dollar mark..."

Oh, and finally: http://www.comicvine.com/agent-pratt/29-10045/

Torn to pieces by the Hulk after partially regenerating. Torn to pieces. Deserving or not, Hulk overtly killed this guy, too.

Glenn Talbot died in battle with the Hulk. It's iffy, but he is dead.

The Incredible Hulk #345, Hulk kills Craig Saunders, the Redeemer, by throwing him into Rock's spikes. Yet another dead guy.

So...never killed anyone? Nonsense. Wishful thinking.

- Yulian

Technically, the retcon is "Never killed anyone, when Banner was in the subconscious, who didn't have it coming." The 316 ones were when Hulk and Banner were entirely separate.

And I like the retcon more than the alternative. Either Banner doesn't kill anyone due to comic book science, which is no more unbelievable than the initial accident, really, or Bruce Banner is a worthless piece of slime who consciously puts his own life above that of every single other person on the planet. I prefer the former.

[Yulian]

Technically, the retcon is "Never killed anyone, when Banner was in the subconscious, who didn't have it coming." The 316 ones were when Hulk and Banner were entirely separate.


Well that's still a heck of a lot different than "The Hulk never kills" isn't it? Either every single example I listed is a retcon (some rather recent) or it's nonsense and handwaving.

Frankly, Banner is kind of scuzzy. He is deeply flawed and dangerous. There's no way the Illuminati would banish him because of excessive property damage if not a single life had ever been lost. They'd be banishing Juggernaut first, or gunning for Magneto, who's killed a lot of people.

- Yulian

[chiasaur11]

Well that's still a heck of a lot different than "The Hulk never kills" isn't it? Either every single example I listed is a retcon (some rather recent) or it's nonsense and handwaving.

Frankly, Banner is kind of scuzzy. He is deeply flawed and dangerous. There's no way the Illuminati would banish him because of excessive property damage if not a single life had ever been lost. They'd be banishing Juggernaut first, or gunning for Magneto, who's killed a lot of people.

- Yulian

Well, to be frank, they should have.

But every single issue of the Illuminati mini portrays the group (composed of some of the smartest people on earth and Namor {who probably has nearly as many bodies to his credit as the Hulk from the worst estimates. See: Flooding of NY}) as complete and utter morons of the finest caliber. These are the masterminds behind the Stamford act, remember. AKA, the thing that gave Norman Osborn unlimited political power.

And the Banner bit goes beyond scuzzy. It would be going to "Yes! The FBI shot him dead!" territory for a character clearly portrayed, on most occasions, as at least somewhat sympathetic. I do grant I exaggerated somewhat on the murder count. Put it down to a fuzzy memory.

Oh, and the Hulk for this fight should be Mini-Marvels Hulk. Just because.

[Yulian]

Oh, and the Hulk for this fight should be Mini-Marvels Hulk. Just because.

Green, Red, or the mysterious Blue?

- Yulian

[WitchSlayer]

Why do you want to tip this fight toward Hulk so much?

If WW Hulk is being used, then I say Superman Prime is the Superman we use.:smallamused:

SuperBOY or SuperMAN? Because Superman Prime is a golden (literally) god (also literally).

We could use current Superman and current Hu-
Oh wait.
Red Hulk.
Red Hulk beats everyone.
Red Hulk wins.

Oh and Night Surgeon? Why would Batman make Kryptonite armor for the Hulk? Batman and Superman are best buddies!

[kpenguin]

SuperBOY or SuperMAN? Because Superman Prime is a golden (literally) god (also literally).

I'm talking about the guy calling himself SuperMAN Prime who was formerly known as SuperBOY Prime.

[WitchSlayer]

I'm talking about the guy calling himself SuperMAN Prime who was formerly known as SuperBOY Prime.

WELL THEN YOU'RE RUINING EVERYTHING!

*Punches reality so you were talking about the other Superman Prime*

[Selrahc]

But every single issue of the Illuminati mini portrays the group (composed of some of the smartest people on earth and Namor ... as complete and utter morons of the finest caliber.

As shown when they went to assemble the infinity gauntlet.
The idea was to stop bad guys from being able to get the inifnity gauntlet, and they did this by putting all of the stones together on a single planet, under the command of people who have a tendency to get the crap beaten out of them.

So far the "Lifelong guardians" of the infinity stones have
Lost all public credibility, much of their wealth and the efficiency of their armour (Iron Man)
Been killed or something? (Xavier)
Had the crap beaten out of them and imprisoned, replaced by an imposter for many months (Black Bolt)
Lost a lot of their powers and had to go on a big spirit journey thing to get them back. (Doctor Strange)
Nothing particularly unusual (Reed Richards)

And these are the guys who are charged with guarding an artifact that could destroy the universe.

[bosssmiley]

Superman can do things Hulk can't as well, including ... (depending on the version of the Hulk), basic multiplication.

"HULK SMASH PUNY SLIDE RULE!"

Didn't we already see this in "Death of Superman" back in the 90s? Some Hulk knock-off beat Superman to death IIRC.

@v: Ah, the 90s. A time of wacky adventures when comic staffers could get into hilarious hijinks with suitcases full of cocaine they found lying around. And all with no harmful repercussions at all...except Rob Leifeld. Great days. :smallbiggrin:

[Starscream]

Didn't we already see this in "Death of Superman" back in the 90s? Some Hulk knock-off beat Superman to death IIRC.

The Deus Ex Doomsday? I wouldn't call him a Hulk rip off. He was big, mean, stupid, and angry, but that description could apply to about 30% of all supervillains, as well as half the population of Texas*.

Anyway, that was a tie. They both died. They both came back.

And it was the early nineties, an era of comic books that simply didn't occur. The entire industry went on a vacation to Mars or something, and didn't return until 1995. Anyone who remembers reading comic books back then is clearly delusional, and should be carefully humored and then reported to the authorities.

The problem with VS fights like this, is that there is no consensus on just how strong these guys really are. It goes up and down with who is writing the story, who the character is fighting, and just how strong the plot requires them to be. The Superman fans are always going to say Superman is stronger because he is Superman. And the Hulk fans are sure Hulk is stronger because he is the Hulk. Strong is what they do, Bub.

So really, the only sensible way to gauge a fight like this is to treat them both as having a strength of Infinity, remove it entirely from consideration, and look at what you have left over when "can hit stuff really hard" isn't a factor.



*I've lived there, I'm entitled!

[Devonix]

SuperBOY or SuperMAN? Because Superman Prime is a golden (literally) god (also literally).

We could use current Superman and current Hu-
Oh wait.
Red Hulk.
Red Hulk beats everyone.
Red Hulk wins.

Oh and Night Surgeon? Why would Batman make Kryptonite armor for the Hulk? Batman and Superman are best buddies!

Your talking about the incredibly powerful godlike Superman from in the future and that's "The Prime Superman" Not "Superman Prime" easier to avoid confusion with Superboy Prime that way.

Also I see very little reason this would go into an actual battle. When confronted by a situation like the one listsed above, there may be a few punches exchanged but most of them would be by Hulk and directed at Superman who unless the writers forget is posessed of superspeed reflexes would be working to calm him down, not put him down.

Superman sees to the safety of people around first.
Analizes the situation second.
Calculates the level of force needed to take someone out without hurting them too much third.
Attempts to talk someone down usually before the first punch is thrown.

Superman would realize that the Hulk wasn't the cause of whatever craziness is going on and attempt to help him before trying to hurt him.

[Bhu]

Which comics are you referring to Roumani? Because in the Ultimate series, the Hulk definitely kills people, innocent and villain alike. And I'm pretty sure it's not just the Ultimate series that he kills people in.

RE: Superman being smart and that winning it for him.

Ignoring the fact that Superman isn't all that intelligent, Hulk already fought an intelligent version of himself. He won. Also, it's not so much the strength that's required to penetrate the Hulk's skin, but something hard enough. They had to use adamantium needles to do it in the Ultimate series.

Wow thats changed since last I read him (and it has been a long while). The last time I was reading he wasn't invulnerable so much as he just healed so quickly that no one noticed. They had a villain ripoff of the Fantastic Four fry him down to almost his skeleton, and he was still walking. Regenerated soemthing like 50% or more of his body mass in a second or less.

[Oslecamo]

And these are the guys who are charged with guarding an artifact that could destroy the universe.

In those guy's defenses, they're also the ones who curb stomped god knows how many galactic empires.

Since Earth is being attacked by super galactic civilizations in a weekly basis and it manages to hold on, I think it isn't that stupid to put there something you want to protect.

Of course, puting all of the jewels there was still stupid.

Super vs Hulk: It dependds on how realistic you want the battle to be.

A little spark of realistic:Supes can match Hulk's strenght. Supes throws Hulk into space and leaves him in some other planet untill finding some way to contain him.


Reality raped, burned and danced upon:Supes tries to throw Hulk out of the space, but Hulk grabs some asteroid/spaceshipwhatever and throws himself back. Supes tries to outwrestle Hulk and ends up curb stomped, since supes strenght is limited and Hulk isn't.

So Supes wins if they're fighting in any realistic condition, where supes extra powers simply give him the extra edge.

But if they're fighting in comic world, then there always be enviroment conditions to protet Hulk from supe's special powers, and the green giant ends up geting so angry not even supes can stand on his way.

[Lord Blace]

Your talking about the incredibly powerful godlike Superman from in the future and that's "The Prime Superman" Not "Superman Prime" easier to avoid confusion with Superboy Prime that way.

Also I see very little reason this would go into an actual battle. When confronted by a situation like the one listsed above, there may be a few punches exchanged but most of them would be by Hulk and directed at Superman who unless the writers forget is posessed of superspeed reflexes would be working to calm him down, not put him down.

Superman sees to the safety of people around first.
Analizes the situation second.
Calculates the level of force needed to take someone out without hurting them too much third.
Attempts to talk someone down usually before the first punch is thrown.

Superman would realize that the Hulk wasn't the cause of whatever craziness is going on and attempt to help him before trying to hurt him.

This. After thinking about it for a while, I agree. It would probably go something like this:
"HULK SMASH PUNY RED AND BLUE MAN!"
-Supes doing his damndest to avoid punches.- "Hey now, you only want to be left alone? Let's talk about that. Let's see if Superman- I mean, I can help."
"Superman... Hulk friend?"
And so forth and so on.

[Fan]

SuperBOY or SuperMAN? Because Superman Prime is a golden (literally) god (also literally).

We could use current Superman and current Hu-
Oh wait.
Red Hulk.
Red Hulk beats everyone.
Red Hulk wins.

Oh and Night Surgeon? Why would Batman make Kryptonite armor for the Hulk? Batman and Superman are best buddies!

Bruce Banner, nor Bruce Wayne... IF you planned on giving hulk a motive to actually kill someone prior to becoming hulk, and it's someone like supes.. I think he could figure out that a rock that is INSANELY common (seriously it's almost as common as mica in the DC universe.) can help his alter ego take him down.

[Kaelaroth]

Batman and Superman are best buddies!

Fanfic tells me they're more than that. :smallamused:

[Ravens_cry]

Fanfic tells me they're more than that. :smallamused:
You should see what Batman and Joker get up to.
Image linked not only for size, but for childhood destroying properties.
(no nudity though)
You have been warned. (http://thundertori.deviantart.com/art/Yaoi-image-of-Joker-and-Batman-36345431)

[GoC]

other than that, even match.

I wouldn't say so... their strength varies across many orders of magnitude! A single order of magnitude will change the person doing the curbstomp.
9 times out of 10 that's what it will be (whoever wins).

If we use the most powerful versions of both... Superman will destroy everything short of multiversal threats.
The weakest versions... Hulk by a small bit.

[Ravens_cry]

Hulkspeak on:
Hulk Fighter. Strong, pound stuff in ground. But not do much else. Superman Gish. Superman also pound stuff in ground, but Superman do much more.
Superman win.

Batman is Batman.
Hulkspeak off.