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Fez
2009-04-29, 02:30 AM
Decrypt!

Well it seems the special troop type can only be created from croaked troops.

I do love and fear Wanda, and Stanley does seem rightly worried.

Bawon von Howse
2009-04-29, 02:33 AM
...and I guess we know where dwagons come from now...POP!

JLrep
2009-04-29, 02:33 AM
Oh dear...........

AdmiralKit
2009-04-29, 02:34 AM
Is that a dwagon that just popped with the new turn? Interesting to see that GK's production of units is still going despite it being turned into rubble.

I'm also curious to see how much free will Ansom has now that he's been resurrected, as he appears to be far less green than the typical uncroaked.

Saracenus
2009-04-29, 02:35 AM
I find Wanda's smile disturbing. Make it stop. Cool motif on the last panel, the turnips are now skulls. Hmmmm, no Hamstar markings...

Moriarty
2009-04-29, 02:35 AM
Decrypt!

Well it seems the special troop type can only be created from croaked troops.

I do love and fear Wanda, and Stanley does seem rightly worried.

looks like some sort of non-decomposing undead. maybe even with free will

edith: i wonder how much control wanda or parson have over the new ansom

Ganurath
2009-04-29, 02:35 AM
I suddenly see the Master dancing through the ruins of Gobwin Knob, swinging the Akenpliers overhead.

"I can't decide whether you should live or die..."

DoctorJest
2009-04-29, 02:36 AM
Is that a dwagon that just popped with the new turn? Interesting to see that GK's production of units is still going despite it being turned into rubble.


Just as I and several others have said, the city was not conquered, so it was still there, just reduced in level. With the new gem discovery it now has plenty of Schmuckers to pay for new units and upkeep, too!

DoctorJest
2009-04-29, 02:38 AM
I find Wanda's smile disturbing. Make it stop.

Yeah that grin is several shades of WRONG.

Fez
2009-04-29, 02:39 AM
I find Wanda's smile disturbing. Make it stop. Cool motif on the last panel, the turnips are now skulls. Hmmmm, no Hamstar markings...

Well this is her special troop from the atuned Arkentool, so tied to her rather than the warlord I suppose. Does this mean Wanda has become a Tool too? Poor croakamancer.

And yes, that was a dragon popping. Will be a number of turns at that rate before Stanley is back up to strength with them in best case alas.

Wanda's method is interesting. Unlike the Hammer, she doesn't autopop her special troop, she actually has to have someone croaked to decrypt. But strength likely depends on strength of the one that was croaked. Now a very clever Wanda might just have to croak a dragon and decrypt that=(Arkentool servitor)^2

Mm.

Bawon von Howse
2009-04-29, 02:41 AM
...I also notice that Ansom's raddishes have changed into little white skulls on a black background...this would seem to signify something relating to wanda as previous uncroaked she made had the hamstard emblam!

Gez
2009-04-29, 02:42 AM
Alright, so a Ansom the Decwypted Knight (with little skulls instead of radishes).

Wanda really looks insane in the penultimate panel.

Oh, and I like that Stanley is starting to make an effort to name his units by their names. "The thinkamancer. Maggie."

shinjikarity
2009-04-29, 02:46 AM
Ew. :smallsigh: Parson's hand has been mucked up in the second last panel. Maybe now he is double jointed?

Love the direction of this comic by the way, best on the web imho. :smallsmile:

Allerdyce
2009-04-29, 02:49 AM
Man, that's just crazy. He looks almost alive.

As glad as I am that the story's progressing so fast, it's a bit sad we're reaching the end of the chapter.

MalikT
2009-04-29, 02:54 AM
Well, that's a creepy smile.

Seems that Ansom doesn't remember anything, that means a whole mind for Wanda to mold.

Joreal_Conners
2009-04-29, 02:56 AM
Alright, so a Ansom the Decwypted Knight (with little skulls instead of radishes).

I think it's just Decrypt. It's not a unit and it was plainly shown as Decrypt, so no text change need apply. What I find interesting is how it appears to be a boosted version of "Uncroak" by using similar words to basically say the same thing. Reminds me of similar naming techniques used in other games. That and the Arkenpliers were used as a focus, so maybe it's something she only has access to through the Tool as an upgrade element rather than a new standard. Who knows, we might even see Bogroll again if Parson can convince her.

Barbarians aren't in the Battlespace. Wanda's thinking ahead for any potential unwanted surprises. The Don and Charles are playing it safe, probably want to see if there's any other traps that haven't been armed yet. Those Schmuckers will be helpful, and we already know the volcano can be uncroaked. They'll have time at least for Tool Stanley to reconnoiter for a bit, if not come straight back to base with the remnants of the dragons. Plus they'll have Jack Snape come back as a recovering Foolamancer who may have access to things which I don't feel I have the right to speculate on without bringing on mod wrath. I don't know if you guys work like Sluggy.net, but I know better than to get my Spec in your Word of God so I'll sit on it for now.

Interesting times are ahead for everyone, at least. Decrypted Ansom... I smell FoeYay with Wanda. :smalltongue:

OK, now I'm really going away. Please don't hurt me. :smalleek:

Half_Moon
2009-04-29, 02:56 AM
Ew. :smallsigh: Parson's hand has been mucked up in the second last panel. Maybe now he is double jointed?

Love the direction of this comic by the way, best on the web imho. :smallsmile:

His hand isn't mucked up. He's just reaching to pat Wanda on the shoulder and his fingers are obscured behind her shoulder pad.

Also, i like how the veiled trees talk to each other. Amusing

shinjikarity
2009-04-29, 03:02 AM
His hand isn't mucked up. He's just reaching to pat Wanda on the shoulder and his fingers are obscured behind her shoulder pad.

Also, i like how the veiled trees talk to each other. Amusing

lol, didn't even notice the veiled trees. No, I meant that if that's his right hand, the thumb should be on the inside, whereas quite plainly it's on the outside. :P

Enlong
2009-04-29, 03:04 AM
Wow. The spell even renewed and changed Ansom's clothing.
So what is this? A sentient uncroaked, like some have been saying?
Or is it Erfworld's very first, honest-to-goodness Resurrection spell? That would open up some interesting possibilities.

Half_Moon
2009-04-29, 03:05 AM
lol, didn't even notice the veiled trees. No, I meant that if that's his right hand, the thumb should be on the inside, whereas quite plainly it's on the outside. :P

I don't think that's his thumb. It's probably just his pinky that's hidden behind Wanda's shoulder so it looks short and seems to be a thumb.

His other fingers appear to be behind her shoulder too.

Killer Angel
2009-04-29, 03:10 AM
Wow... just WOW! A lot of things...
1. Love the camouflage of the Dwagons... Jack is really good!
2. Can't wait for the arrival of Stanley... gotta see his face, when he will watches the devastation
3. A blue dragon popped in the air space of GK? don't understand it... popping units shouldn't be planned by the "king" (who disposes of the treasury)?
4. Wanda' smile is very creepy. Love it!
5. White skulls on black field? Love them! :smallbiggrin:
6. "something... glorious". Go wanda!

Definitely, a great strip. Rob and Jamie are preparing an epic setting!

EDIT: I forgot Ansom asking who he is... eheheh! Also Parson seems amused by this.

Nenec
2009-04-29, 03:13 AM
Did Maggie contact Stanley or opposite?


He's just reaching to pat Wanda on the shoulder
Are you sure? I see it more like he's reaching for his sword, that's just behing Wanda's shoulder.
More than the insane grin on Wanda's face I'm worried about Parson's sarcastic grin...am I the only one noticing that?

I don't think Ansom remebers nothing, I see that "What am I" instead of "Who am I" like "Hey, i was dead, and now I'm here, but in what form?"

Kaed
2009-04-29, 03:13 AM
It's difficult to tell right now, but I suspect Ansom does not remember who he is.

That or he's simply demanding to know why he is alive again, and what he has become.

Nenec
2009-04-29, 03:15 AM
Killer Angel, can I steal your signature?

Demonicbunny
2009-04-29, 03:17 AM
Wohoo!

Lets see here.
1. Ansom has been resurrected by the use of powerful McGuffin.
2. He looks pretty much like he did in life except ominous red glow (as she powered him up) and new "evil-ified" imagery.
3. He's not a vampire (since erfworld vampires are special).
4. Drama-logic tells me he's not going to decay.

I don't 100% know what Ansom is, but 20 schmuckers that Ansom is now a Deathknight.

Lunaya
2009-04-29, 03:20 AM
O_O

Wait..."De-crypt"? That wasn't a reanimation. That was a resurrection. Probably the first of its kind?

Okay, Wanda. Now I'm scared.

Kreistor
2009-04-29, 03:20 AM
Gang, he might be Resurrected, and not dead anymore, but totally under Wanda's domination.

I think Stanley is going to be a little less cheesed off that Wanda has the pliers once he sees Ansom. If he's got his memories, then he is going to be such a powerful intelligence tool...

Can you imagine what Jetstone will do when they find out about this?

Or Jillian? Now her two favorite people and her least favorite person are all working together for a kinder, more uncroaked world.

And yeah... a dwagon just popped over GK. I wonder why it's called Taming, then.

hewhosaysfish
2009-04-29, 03:21 AM
Oh, and I like that Stanley is starting to make an effort to name his units by their names. "The thinkamancer. Maggie."

Yes, he learned his lesson from that business with Jack.

[quote=Killer Angel]3. A blue dragon popped in the air space of GK? don't understand it... popping units shouldn't be planned by the "king" (who disposes of the treasury)?[/url]

Well, I believe it takes several turns to pop a new unit (and I'd guess many for something as serious as a Dwagon), so I'd guess that Stanely started "construction" sometime before he left before (probably before the siege too) and it just finished now.

Whispri
2009-04-29, 03:25 AM
The ultimate Tool of Croakamancy it seems. Sentient Undead are always fun.

Gez
2009-04-29, 03:26 AM
It's not a unit

Ansom is a unit. <Hamstard>In the metaphorical sense.</Hamstard>

Lolindir
2009-04-29, 03:27 AM
Epic page,

is Ansom looking over Wanda in the last panel, and avoiding eye-contact? His stare looks blank, compared to a few panels before that.

It seems to me he has memory loss. The amount is uncertain...

Since not everyone seems to know how everything works (Sizemore knows about all kinds of Magic, but is uncommon, warlords know about units and troops but not all), Ansom might be Hamster's new source of information; for citybuilding.
somehow, I doubt Stanley is going to take the time to go over every option of building, what they do, what they unlock etc.

tomaO2
2009-04-29, 03:28 AM
Again, I am impressed by the speed of updates. He's been matching the Giant one per one the last few weeks. When we see one update we know the other person will update as well within a few days.

I was kind of hoping the conversation would continue with Parson asking what she meant by what she just said last update. I'm not especilly interested with the new uncroaked units.

The battle space comment is important. That implies that everyone's turn starts at dawn as long as they are not at war or, at least, not in the range of anyone that can attack them if they are at war. I find it incredible that even with a volcano blowing up the city, it still stands. What is the exact mechanism to make a city fall then?

What's with dwagons popping? It said that dwagons were "tamed" by the hammer. Also, is that a gloating smile Parson has? Maybe a nervous smile instead. I don't think he'd be inclined to gloat at the moment.

Since Transilveto isn't going after Stanley, I can only assume they are going to resurrect FAQ. I can't see how that's a good idea though. Way too close to GK. Not defendable without any nearby allies to help.

Now, while I said I'm not interested in de-cryped units, there are still some interesting things going on that I'd like to comment on. Ansom seems to be way more himself then I thought he would be. I figured he would immediately know what he was and have the subservient attitude. Like a newly popped unit does.

In addition, it looks like Wanda is not going to split off into her own side (for the moment anyway). She said "we" and "our" after all. That doesn't seem to jive with her using everything and everyone to get what she wants though... Staying Stanley's slave doesn't make any more sense in my mind, now that she has the pliers.

Killer Angel
2009-04-29, 03:30 AM
Killer Angel, can I steal your signature?

Absolutely yes, my dear. :smallwink:
If you like, make eventually some little change, to not be exactly equal... I promise I will not accuse you of plagiarism!

...and no, you're not the only one noticing Parson's expression. I still don't know how to "read" it.

Natio
2009-04-29, 03:32 AM
I think I'm in love!

I'd say Wanda can choose what little themes are on the clothes of her uncroaked/decrypted units. I'd suggest the hamster insignia was a psycological ploy against ansom.

Natio
2009-04-29, 03:35 AM
...and no, you're not the only one noticing Parson's expression. I still don't know how to "read" it.

Combine his response with his smile and the hand on the hilt of his sword. Parson's recently defeated enemy looks completely alive and ready to go, wouldn't you be wary too?

Brewdude
2009-04-29, 03:36 AM
Parson's expression? Bah. It's all about Wanda's glorious smile. We haven't seen enough of it. I want more.

tyckspoon
2009-04-29, 03:36 AM
And yeah... a dwagon just popped over GK. I wonder why it's called Taming, then.

War-game wise, 'taming' tends to be the fluff justification for why your side can now create dragons/gryphons/hellbeasts/whatever- "Oh lord, the research of our animal handlers with our mages has born fruit! We can now bend the mighty dragons to our will!" You typically still have to devote resources to actually making the things (although in the specific case of the Arkenhammer, it may also cause any wild Dwagon units you meet to offer to join you/automatically join you. Could be a handy way to rapidly rebuild a force for Gobwin Knob if they know the locations of any unclaimed Dwagon nests. Assuming wild Dwagons exist.)


What is the exact mechanism to make a city fall then?
Standard method? Be the only person with troops in it. The city stands as long as members of Stanley's side can still fight for it. It would be very easy to take over at this point, with no built defenses and only three characters+1 dwagon to fight for it, but there's nobody left to make the attempt.

Whispri
2009-04-29, 03:40 AM
And yeah... a dwagon just popped over GK. I wonder why it's called Taming, then.

Maybe they only respond to orders after they've been clouted? Or maybe Taming is a different way of acquiring Dwagons, the could be Wild Dwagons about, doing the whole Smaug thing.

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-29, 03:40 AM
Dwagons pop! True Resurrection! So many questions answered! More exclamation marks:!!!!

(And I knew I shouldn't have gone to that course. I missed 63 minutes of commenting on this threat :smallfrown:)

blueblade
2009-04-29, 03:43 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that what Wanda now has is an uber unit (and possibly his dwagon mount) capable of defeating Stanley and effectively running Gobwin Knob in her name?

I know the Tool doesn't have an heir, and if he does it isn't any of the three shown there. But maybe this resurrected, but controlled Prince is just the kind of thing she needs to bend the rules.

I may be off here, but surely the return of Stanley will lead to confrontation with Wanda and this new Ansom?

DoctorJest
2009-04-29, 03:43 AM
It would be very easy to take over at this point, with no built defenses and only three characters+1 dwagon

Actually, 1 chief warlord, 1 master-class croakamancer, 1 master-class dirtamancer, 1 master-class thinkamaster, 2 rock golems, 1 blue dwagon, 1 whatever Ansom is now, and a handful of uncroaked.

But yeah, if there were any opposition in the area, they'd be in trouble.

rosebud
2009-04-29, 03:45 AM
So... what, if anything, did Parson get in his Stupid Meal today?

fractal
2009-04-29, 03:46 AM
This was actually the best time for the Dwagon to pop. Two turns ago, Stanley would have taken it with him, and probably lost it to Transylvito. One turn ago, it would have immediately auto-attacked a few dozen Archons in the airspace, and presumably been mauled, without making any appreciable change in their strength.

Wanda at least is still talking fairly to Parson, with comments like, "We should do this." That's a good sign, but I don't trust her.

Can she uncroak the other units nearby? There seem to be a lot of corpses in panel 5. If so, she could have her own army and her own (probably) powerful Warlord, meaning she might not need Parson and Stanley, if Duty does not actually bind her.

What is she doing in panel 7?

~Corvus~
2009-04-29, 03:46 AM
Well, Lotsa people were right about Ansom being Resurrected.... =)

milamber
2009-04-29, 03:46 AM
wanda going to fail again if she try to ansom vs jillian thing.
love>all spells :P at least i hope so... shes going to play a dangereus game if leave stanley. but i think she will stay with team. she have great power but after she reached that power shes little different...

SteveMB
2009-04-29, 03:47 AM
Is that a dwagon that just popped with the new turn?

I think the dwagons were unveiling (they'd been veiled to look like a patch of trees).

EDIT: Oh, you mean panel 4. Well, I guess now we know what was in the production queue.

"What am I?"... that is the 64,000 shmucker question.... :smalleek:

Alces
2009-04-29, 03:47 AM
Fantastic stuff.
Wanda's becoming ever more evil while Stanley is turning less callous - and Parson is increasingly conflicted.

The next chapter will be very interesting. I've got my theories, but won't mess around with predictions.

Kilkrazy
2009-04-29, 03:53 AM
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Indigo"]
...

...

The battle space comment is important. That implies that everyone's turn starts at dawn as long as they are not at war or, at least, not in the range of anyone that can attack them if they are at war. I find it incredible that even with a volcano blowing up the city, it still stands. What is the exact mechanism to make a city fall then?

... ... ...

The concept of "battlespace" hasn't been defined. In a turn based game, each
side has a phase sequentially (the player turn) within the course of the whole game turn. The non-phasing players cannot move or do certain actions in another player's phase (or turn.) One part of Erfworld strategy is to split and reform alliances to get an advantage from the order of the sides' phases within the game tuirn. Transylvito was split from the RCC in order to get its turn before Stanley.

The rules that determine the order of player phases are not clear.

One thing is certain, in a normal game a side is either in the game and moving, or out of the game altogether. Since Erfworld is the game, a side can't be out of it.

Parson's comment implies that Erfworld has some strategic level of game above the tactical level of troop movement and combat. Possibly, a side with no troops within any feasible move distance of an enemy, performs all its actions instantaneously and there is no appreciable time-lag for the other sides.

Lukmar
2009-04-29, 03:55 AM
So... what, if anything, did Parson get in his Stupid Meal today?

Panel 5, between Parson and the boulder on his left. Is that a takeaway bag with the Stupid Meal?

Lunaya
2009-04-29, 03:56 AM
Hm...

A dragon popping over Gobwin Knob tells me that Wanda's Arkenpliers are multi-talented.

Decius
2009-04-29, 03:58 AM
Arkenpliers are croakamancy-based: CONFIRMED.

Qualities of decrypted units: UNKNOWN

And Parson is in a situation he hasn't planned for yet. Of course, all of his projected outcomes ended either with him dead, or with the city intact and mop-up work to be done.

So, is "Ansom on a Dwagon!"
(a) An exclamation used to indicate surprise
(b) A descriptive phrase for a page or panel that comes before the completion of the current story arc
(c) A direct quote from a character, before the end of the current arc
(d) All of the above

I reckon that Ansom's last memories are of trying to remove Bogroll from his neck and tell the Archons that he'll pay whatever they want to cast feather fall on him RIGHT NOW. He knows that uncroaked are mindless, and he knows that he is not mindless. Therefore, Ansom knows that he is not uncroaked.

Since he isn't alive, isn't dead, and isn't uncroaked, Ansom doesn't know what he is. "What am I?" then becomes one of the most pressing questions to him. (Along with "How did we lose?", "How strong is my duty and loyalty, and to whom?", and "Am I gonna decay away in a few turns?")

I see decrypted Ansom recruiting Jillian, then Jillian betraying the deal she made with Stanley/Parson/Wanda's puppet. Then I see decrypted Jillian retaking Faq from the vampires.

I wonder if the vampires can also be decrypted? Perhaps it is limited to royal units, or noble units, or warlords.

Also remember, Parson still owes Charlie those calculations. He might weasel out of that for a while if he convinces Charlie that he's dead. He also might weasel out of the rest if he does something to Charlie to make sure that he's dead.

Cracklord
2009-04-29, 04:02 AM
Ansom, Croaknight.

Fear him, for he shall have his revenge.

I shall enjoy it.

Kasavin
2009-04-29, 04:03 AM
Well that was inconclusive.

First off, love the veil imagery.

Beyond that, this strip manages to avoid confirmation about what exactly the pliers have done to Ansom. Is he some kind of strange uncroaked? Maybe. Is he ressurrected with some Amnesia? Possible. Memory? Will? Loyalty? Not to be a anti-papist, but we know nothing. All the Speculation from 156 continues.

Also, I think I liked Wanda a lot better when she didn't have the pliers.

I secretly hope Ansom grabs the pliers back (technically fulfilling some prediction) leaving her even more bitter and resigned to only getting pleasure in life out of the little things (like uncroaking and sleeping with plush skulls) Thats her dynamic with the group.

Ovaltine Patrol
2009-04-29, 04:04 AM
Sure Wanda's smile is scary, but Wanda is scary in general. I find Parson's smirk in the same panel to be way creepier. Also, it's nice to have Stanley back, I usually enjoy his antics.

Oslecamo
2009-04-29, 04:05 AM
BRILLIANT comic! So many questions answered...



EDIT: Oh, you mean panel 4. Well, I guess now we know what was in the production queue.


That proves the theory that new units literally pop out of thin air. Dwagons seem to take several turns to produce. I guess you need to have an atunned arkenhammer to start training them in the first place

It also proves that GK is still able to produce units! Weee!



"What am I?"... that is the 64,000 shmucker question.... :smalleek:

Who cares what it is? What matters is that it looks exactly like Arsom!

Hamster really couldn't ask for a better warlord. What is unaroyals gonna say when Efworld sees their favorite pretty boy leading forth Stanley's forces? Rumors will start spreading over. There will be blames thrown around, nobody will be able to provide a united front against Stnaley the tool!

Also, Tranylvito and Charlie seem to have given up. Smart guys.

Hamster seems to be geting the hang of fighting on the evil side, with that evil smirck of his right next to Wanda.

Stanley seems to finally start recovering his self sense. Will we finally see him become a true competent overlord?

Ovaltine Patrol
2009-04-29, 04:11 AM
And yeah... a dwagon just popped over GK. I wonder why it's called Taming, then.

My theory is that if he encountered barbarian or otherwise unaligned dwagons while wielding the Arkenhammer, they would join his side. It might work on enemy dwagons too, which would explain why no member of the RCC fielded any.

Decius
2009-04-29, 04:16 AM
Also, Tranylvito and Charlie seem to have given up. Smart guys.
TV is taking Jillian and conquering FAQ. Charlie realizes that his win-win-lose situation just turned into a lose-lose-lose situation. He's not one to throw good units in after bad.

Only Parson and company know the status of Gobwin Knob and the nature of the trap. Only his enemies knew that that trap wiped out all of the units within the space. What Parson DOES know, is that there are no RCC, TV, or barbarian troops in his zone. He DOESN'T -know- that there are no witnesses who saw the devastation and left before the end of their turn. (For that matter, if such a thing happened, and their thinkamancer lied to Bunny, we wouldn't know either.)

Killer Angel
2009-04-29, 04:27 AM
So... what, if anything, did Parson get in his Stupid Meal today?

Well, probably he will get his SM, but without "bonus gadgets". After all, the stages to reach his status as Perfect Warlord, have been succesfully completed (comic n. 118, aka page 106).

Frogpop
2009-04-29, 04:31 AM
Cool motif on the last panel, the turnips are now skulls. Hmmmm, no Hamstar markings...
And the cut of his cape is now in Wanda-mode too. Bitchin'!


Panel 5, between Parson and the boulder on his left. Is that a takeaway bag with the Stupid Meal?
Great catch, I missed that.

zz_tophat
2009-04-29, 04:32 AM
Yay, Uncroaked Ansome, dwagon popping, creepy smiles what is not to like about this comic?

Does "Decrypt" as a word mean anything important in regards to the function of the pliers? Were the uncraoked before somehow confused or obfuscated in their function or creation? Or is it just a joke along the same lines as saying "disinter" as the spell word.




Also remember, Parson still owes Charlie those calculations. He might weasel out of that for a while if he convinces Charlie that he's dead. He also might weasel out of the rest if he does something to Charlie to make sure that he's dead.

My guess is that Charlie knows Parson is not dead, remember that Maggie could tell how many units were left after parson destroyed the city the first time. If her thinkamancy can tell that, then who knows how much Charlie knows with his "unmatched" thinkamancy.

Nenec
2009-04-29, 04:34 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that what Wanda now has is an uber unit (and possibly his dwagon mount) capable of defeating Stanley and effectively running Gobwin Knob in her name?

I know the Tool doesn't have an heir, and if he does it isn't any of the three shown there. But maybe this resurrected, but controlled Prince is just the kind of thing she needs to bend the rules.

I may be off here, but surely the return of Stanley will lead to confrontation with Wanda and this new Ansom?

You're not the only one, I think that as well! And I really hope it.

dr pepper
2009-04-29, 04:42 AM
I find Wanda's smile disturbing. Make it stop. Cool motif on the last panel, the turnips are now skulls. Hmmmm, no Hamstar markings...

As always-- awsome attention to detail.

Past my bedtime. DevilDan, i'll make you an avatar in the morning.

The Old Hack
2009-04-29, 04:48 AM
So, things are drawing to a close. This has been well worth the read for me. Gorgeous climax, elegant coda. :smallsmile: Also, I don't think I have seen anything quite as terrifying as Wanda's smile in the next to last panel for a while. Wanda... is not getting any less scary. :smalleek:

Oslecamo
2009-04-29, 04:56 AM
You're not the only one, I think that as well! And I really hope it.

I seriously doubt Wanda will betray Stanley. Because:

1-Stanley is still needed to produce and control moar dwagons.
2-Wanda's really not in the position to sacrifice allies.
3-Wanda still doesn't know how strong his UncroAnsom is, but she knows Stnaley's a veteran warrior.
4-Stanley has a lot more experience using his artifact than Wanda.
5-Staley probably will be even easier to manipulate after all these events.
6-Hamster's loyalty is to Stanley, and he wouldn't sit idly while Wanda tried to backstab his Toolship.

So, Wanda may try to urn against Stanley later, but not now. Wanda's a carefull planner, and a carefull planner only betrays his master when he doesn't serve any more purpose and you've built yourself a strong power base. Wanda neither has a strong power base(very few units, a mostly demolished city), and Stanley is stil usefull to her.



Decius: I'm not understanding your reply. Didn't you mean "if there are no witnesses"? Anyway, we still don't know if TV will convince Jillian to reveal FAQ's location. She would probably breack her contract and go hunt Stanley herself than give up now.

HandofShadows
2009-04-29, 04:57 AM
So the Archenpliers can make a new type of unit. Croak Knight sounds like a good term until we know more. There is a chance we may get to see Scarlet again. :smallbiggrin: (I don't see Bagroll being brought back though)

What's interesting is that even Wanda does not know what Croak Knight Ansom is. So Wanda is being scary again (what's new about that?). I am fairly sure that Ansom does have his memories, in the last panel he look more than a little pissed off, but I don't think he can do anything about it. Wanda ownes him (let's see how you like being treated like you treated others buddy!) and cannot do anything without orders from her.

Stanley seems to be getting better. Is it me or did he seem happier being out in the field as oppopsed to being the man behind the big desk?

The comment about barbarians from Wanda may indicate that she is on the lookout for one certain barbarian, Jillian (note, she seemed a little sad when she said that).

I wonder if Pason is smiling about the irony of Ansom being uncroaked when it was very clead he detested them. Or just the fact he can rub Ansom's nose in the fact that he won and Ansom lost (big time).

All in all, ANOTHER great page.

Joreal_Conners
2009-04-29, 05:02 AM
Ansom is a unit. <Hamstard>In the metaphorical sense.</Hamstard>

I was talking more about your text transmutation of taking out the r in decrypt and giving it a w. It's fairly obvious that Ansom is a unit, but the spell isn't. It's a spell. Therefore, it shouldn't have the same rule of r-w applied to it.

SteveD
2009-04-29, 05:03 AM
Cool motif on the last panel, the turnips are now skulls. Hmmmm, no Hamstar markings...

They were radishes not turnips. :P

From this early strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0027.html) we know that un-croaked warlords have their own crests, but if Wanda had any form of crest it would certainly be a little skull.

Love the strip; POP!-RAWWWRRR! ^^

I guess Stanley doesn't need to find and tame Dwagons after all. And now Wanda can move through the ruins and revive all the best Gobwin/Coalition units, maybe even Archons...hey can you revive recroaked-uncroaked units? :P

Vreejack
2009-04-29, 05:04 AM
The blue dwagon popped because Stanley likely ordered it several days ago to replace the one the barbarian killed. It's taken that long to finish.

Ansom is not "resurrected." If he were, then he would not be asking what he was. He would be saying "I'm alive? How?" He almost certainly has all his old memories and now recognizes that he is something he has never himself encountered before. His powers and abilities might be identical to what he had before, but he is somehow flagged as different, if only because his allegiance has been changed naturally through the decrypting. Not that Wanda couldn't prolly handle the odd healing spell, but necromancers do not resurrect.

It would prolly be appropriate if Prince Un-some had some special power/weakness as a result of the decrypting, but we shall see.

cnsvnc
2009-04-29, 05:11 AM
WOO, SCORE! First Haley, now Wanda. Is it girl power week or something?

And no more of this croaknight business. He's clearly a Warlord Formerly Known As Prince.



Stanley seems to be getting better. Is it me or did he seem happier being out in the field as oppopsed to being the man behind the big desk?

Yes, he's seems much less a caricature of a man now. Maybe being popped as a normal unit, he gets cranky without having some action.

Oslecamo
2009-04-29, 05:16 AM
Yes, he's seems much less a caricature of a man now. Maybe being popped as a normal unit, he gets cranky without having some action.

Or perhaps it's because he battle's finally over and he won against all odds.

Some people would say that having a whole coalition banging at your door wanting your head in a spike while your warlords fail one after the other would leave you in a bad mood.

Trixie
2009-04-29, 05:23 AM
Ansom is a unit. <Hamstard>In the metaphorical sense.</Hamstard>

What does that mean? :smallconfused:

FalconPunch
2009-04-29, 05:24 AM
I'm happy.

hajo
2009-04-29, 05:35 AM
Panel 5, between Parson and the boulder on his left. Is that a takeaway bag with the Stupid Meal?

To me, it looks more like a hand from some fallen warrior sticking out of the ground.

Lolindir
2009-04-29, 05:36 AM
Did Wanda wait on purpose to decrypt Ansom?
It might make him stronger, since she's on full-juice, instead of the low-juice-amount she got from uncroaking the vulcano!

EDIT: I meant to say, did she wait for dawn on pupose

hanglekuk
2009-04-29, 05:40 AM
Reread the comic carefully. Pliers are gone from Wanda's hand. While decrypting she's holding them with two hands, then with one and then there's nothing in her hands. Might mean something, might be coincidence.

joosy
2009-04-29, 06:06 AM
Does "Decrypt" as a word mean anything important in regards to the function of the pliers? Were the uncraoked before somehow confused or obfuscated in their function or creation? Or is it just a joke along the same lines as saying "disinter" as the spell word.
.

Its a pun -De-Crypt. Crypt as in tomb.

Reminds me of my Asian friend in college. When he would drink his eyes would actually open wider and appear round. I remember telling him 'Dave! You're getting disoriented!" I don't think he ever got it.

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-29, 06:17 AM
Crypt: A place for dead people
De-Crypt: take someone back from that place = came back to live?

The most famous case of resurrection was IMHO Lazarus, who was buried in a tomb/cave, which is basically a crypt.

Edit: Ninja'd = time to read all posts + time to write and look for terms Lazarus and crypt.

Nenec
2009-04-29, 06:25 AM
So, Wanda may try to urn against Stanley later, but not now. Wanda's a carefull planner, and a carefull planner only betrays his master when he doesn't serve any more purpose and you've built yourself a strong power base. Wanda neither has a strong power base(very few units, a mostly demolished city), and Stanley is stil usefull to her.

Mmmh you might be right, you probably are. But I can't wait to see stanley betrayed, he really deserves that, so....


did she wait for dawn on pupose

Well, at dawn came their turn , so I don't think she could do it before, anyway.

Ultimatum479
2009-04-29, 06:26 AM
As for the suggestions that Wanda could try to rebel against Stanley now, just to offer a bit more evidence in that direction: Stanley's obvious coup against Saline IV would have to have been a breach of Loyalty as well, so it seems likely that the Arkentools offer some sort of resistance to the innate Thinkamancy-like effects of Duty.

EDIT: To the above poster, Wanda can Uncroak on turns other than her own if it's within the city boundaries, so that's unlikely. On the other hand, it's possible that using the Arkenpliers does require that it be GK's turn, but I doubt it.

snafu
2009-04-29, 06:28 AM
The most famous case of resurrection was IMHO Lazarus, who was buried in a tomb/cave, which is basically a crypt.

Er... really? The most famous?

Because the high-level cleric who raised Lazarus... well, you might not have heard this, but he came back from the dead too. Probably the best known example of the genre.

darkgolem
2009-04-29, 06:39 AM
So Ansom is a Croak Knight? (Death Knight)

shamelessmerc
2009-04-29, 06:46 AM
Er... really? The most famous?

Because the high-level cleric who raised Lazarus... well, you might not have heard this, but he came back from the dead too. Probably the best known example of the genre.


Uh... Lazarus was a person, not a trifold incarnate monotheistic omnipresent deity.

Lazarus is the most famous, because coming out of cave saying "Only kidding!" doesn't count.

teratorn
2009-04-29, 06:48 AM
I'm confused, did the pliers go into Ansom?

Saint Nil
2009-04-29, 06:48 AM
So Ansom is a Croak Knight? (Death Knight)

I hope so. More importantly, will he be loyal?

Natio
2009-04-29, 06:58 AM
Oh man, imagine sending out Ansom and dwagons to attack someone and also having Wanda along to decrypt anything that gets killed.

You could level up warlords incredibly well that way, take on tough stacks and if your warlord dies then bring him back for the second round with full hp...

paddyfool
2009-04-29, 07:09 AM
Decrypted Ansom's feet don't appear to touch the ground in the third-from-last panel. Can he now fly, or is this just a temporary spell effect, like the red glow appears to be? On the one hand, his head is a little above Wanda's in the last panel; but on the other, he might just be that much taller. Any thoughts?

Other than this, all that we can clearly say about his attributes is that he has intelligence - unlike all uncroaked seen so far (unless vamps count), he can speak. Hopefully we'll know more when Parson puts on his specs; in the meantime, Wanda certainly seems to like what she sees.

msb
2009-04-29, 07:43 AM
Seems pretty obvious that the three panels that needed to be fixed (cf. Erfworld Facebook page) were a more-uncroaked-looking Ansom. I hope so anyway. Please?

hajo
2009-04-29, 07:43 AM
if there were any opposition in the area, they'd be in trouble.

Poor opposition :smallamused:

Morgaln
2009-04-29, 07:46 AM
The concept of "battlespace" hasn't been defined. In a turn based game, each
side has a phase sequentially (the player turn) within the course of the whole game turn. The non-phasing players cannot move or do certain actions in another player's phase (or turn.) One part of Erfworld strategy is to split and reform alliances to get an advantage from the order of the sides' phases within the game tuirn. Transylvito was split from the RCC in order to get its turn before Stanley.

The rules that determine the order of player phases are not clear.

One thing is certain, in a normal game a side is either in the game and moving, or out of the game altogether. Since Erfworld is the game, a side can't be out of it.

Parson's comment implies that Erfworld has some strategic level of game above the tactical level of troop movement and combat. Possibly, a side with no troops within any feasible move distance of an enemy, performs all its actions instantaneously and there is no appreciable time-lag for the other sides.

I think his comment just referred to the fact that any troops left on GK would have conquered it and therefore ended Stanley's side; Wanda and Parson would have gone Barbarian and their turn wouldn't have been at dawn.

raphfrk
2009-04-29, 07:54 AM
The battle space comment is important. That implies that everyone's turn starts at dawn as long as they are not at war or, at least, not in the range of anyone that can attack them if they are at war.


The world might be split up into battlespace zones, rather than them being dynamic.

There might even be rules for crossing battlespace boundaries. A unit which enters a battlespace might end up being locked into the hex that it enters, and not allowed to spend any more of its move until its side's turn in that battlespace.

Maybe, when you enter a battlezone, you get assigned the earliest slot available.

Sides with cities in the battlespace would thus tend to be earlier in the day. Thus GK and Transilvito would be earlier than Jetstone, since they always have units in the space.

OTOH, it is implied that barbarians are placed at the start of the turn order automatically.

Oslecamo
2009-04-29, 08:19 AM
As for the suggestions that Wanda could try to rebel against Stanley now, just to offer a bit more evidence in that direction: Stanley's obvious coup against Saline IV would have to have been a breach of Loyalty as well, so it seems likely that the Arkentools offer some sort of resistance to the innate Thinkamancy-like effects of Duty.


I must protest:
1-We still don't know if Stanley made the coup. Yes it looks supicious, but it isn't really obvious. Stanley is hardly the kind of guy to make complex plots like persuading the gobwins to betray Saline and then killing them to keep the good looks. I believe it was indeed a gobwin revolution, and they did it when Stanley was away so he couldn't stop them from taking Saline's head, being the strongest warlord in town and all.

2-Wanda is not an heir to her side. Stanley was.

Nenec:Out of curiosity, why do you think he deserves to be betrayed? Like I said above, there's really no proof that he betrayed anyone, and all of the other sides seem to be at least as evil as he is. Like TV now wanting to force Jillian to take them to FAQ. Or Charlie manipulating the situation to increase his profit.

Jeivar
2009-04-29, 08:24 AM
So, what do y'all think Wanda is ultimately up to here? Is she on some quest to forever change the status quo in Erfworld as the Hippiemancer suggested, or is she just a power-hungry psycho? She just seems rather too twisted to have good intentions.
And bringing Ansom back: Procuring a powerful servant, or finding another way to screw with Jillian. I recently voiced a theory that Jillian is somehow a part of the prophecy that Wanda is apparently guided by, which explains the Croakamancer's reluctance to see her dead, and now she might somehow use Ansom to bring the barbarian back under control.

Hm. If it does happen that way, I can see Jillian's life getting even worse, trapped in a love-hate situation with Wanda.

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-29, 08:48 AM
I don't believe Wanda wants to have her own empire, I think she is just a very devoted necromancer (and very enthusiastic torturer). As long as Stanley let's her play with her new toy she is happy.

HandofShadows
2009-04-29, 08:58 AM
Battlespace is a reletively new term used by the US Military. The concept is a full intigration of all aspects of war from troops to intelligence to weather and even such things as radio and information warfare. Parson would know the term, but this kind of broad thinking is outside of the thinking patterns for Erfworlders. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlespace )

What is Wanda up to? That is a Million Smucker question. At this time she really does seem to be out to change Erfworld. I don't think she has a real hope for total peace as Janis does, but she is out to change the world for the better. Her last line on the last page clearly shows that.

The next question (for me at any rate) is why would someone from a small side that had been poped in a Utopian Bubble be so hot to change the entire world? Such high goals offten are born of a tramatic experience. Was the destruction of Faq what triggered Wanda's current course of action?

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-29, 09:01 AM
So the Archenpliers can make a new type of unit. Croak Knight sounds like a good term until we know more. There is a chance we may get to see Scarlet again. :smallbiggrin: (I don't see Bagroll being brought back though).

Much like Bogroll redivibus, I'd file that under "too-good-to-be-true therefore won't be".

But, not all is doom and gloom- Stanley's back! (almost) And while he's a bit of a jerk I found him a rather sympathetic character.

Also, Jack has a certain sense of humour and will probably be allowed some more, badly needed, screen time in book 2. Here's to hope!

Oh yeah, Ansom. I think the Warlord formerly known as Prince is a sufficiently awesome monicker, so whoever suggested that a few strips back, kudos.


What is Wanda up to? That is a Million Smucker question. At this time she really does seem to be out to change Erfworld. I don't think she has a real hope for total peace as Janis does, but she is out to change the world for the better. Her last line on the last page clearly shows that.

The next question (for me at any rate) is why would someone from a small side that had been poped in a Utopian Bubble be so hot to change the entire world? Such high goals offten are born of a tramatic experience. Was the destruction of Faq what triggered Wanda's current course of action?

Or, such goals are born from tremendous ambition, and if you happened to live in a Discworld novel, they would inevitably lead to bad things. Road to hell, paved with, etc.

We'll see how Erfworld behaves.

ChowGuy
2009-04-29, 09:04 AM
I cannot but notice that most of the posters here, in the gerneral rush to vindacate their own theories and/or write their own continuation to the current espisode, are overlooking the Word of God posted elsewhere on this board. to wit:


Book 1 is called The Battle for Gobwin Knob for a reason. Obviously that battle is taking place now, and the story will be finished when the battle is settled. Book 2 will be its own story, with some narrative distance from Book 1. (No, I won't explain that. It's spoilery. :smalltongue:)

Erfworld per se is not a game in isolation, as Wanda's comment to Hamster that "This world wished for you" should make abundently clear.It would seem Erfworld itself is if you will to be a Campaign World in which many games may be played out, by many sides, some of which might have carried over from previous campaigns, or intto subsequent campigns. This is no surprise - we already inferred as much from Charlies comment about "The Great Western War implying that there could easily be other wars elsewhere, and from Parson's observation that the Library was mainly filled AAR's of previous campaigns. That no opposition units remain "in the battlespce" effectively means this battle is decided, and thus this campaign is ended. Any loose ends, such as what Jillian does next, or for that matter what Ansom's status is, are merely hooks upon which some subsequent campaign may depend, not things which "must be" resolved before this one does.

Hardly being in a position to speculate on how the overarching sga may proceed, all I can note is that the term "some narrative distance" normally implies exactly that - a distance either in time or space, if not both, between the end of one story and the start of the next. It might, but does not necessarily imply (as some in the quoted thread sugest) imply a whole new set of characters, but it does imply their actions and intervening events will be related, if at all, as "backstory" only. A "distance" in time though will give both Jillian and Stanley time to have rebuilt and reasserted their respective sides, and for Charlie to stirred the pot of alliances and counter-alliances among the remaining fragments of the RCC, with or without Parson's calcs. The world as we see it next may be much different from what we see now, even if some or all of the players are still in it.

In this sense, and given the author's penchant for pop culture references, I think the most important line in this update may be Wanda's "Something new. Something.... glorious" which is rather evocative of Bowman's enigmatic message line from 2010 "Something is going to happen. Something.... wonderful." I rather suspect that in the rapidly approaching Book II DecryptAnsom, whatever he is, is going to be shown to be, and have been far more then a toy soldier in anyone's hands.

After all Wanda herself admits she doesn't know what he is, only (we assume) that his resurrection is in some way a fulfillment of prophecy "as predicted."

ETA: Sheesh, twenty minutes to get two page updatea?

Ellye
2009-04-29, 09:20 AM
Stanley can be so cute when he's not upset...
I hope that Parson and Wanda stay loyal to him.

DigoDragon
2009-04-29, 09:25 AM
At first my answer to "What is Ansom?" was going to be "screwed", but thinking about a little more, this could actually be a really good story plot if Parson can win Ansom over for a greater cause...

...now, for just the right cause... :D

Strengfellow
2009-04-29, 09:33 AM
One word, SPANKY!

Lamech
2009-04-29, 09:40 AM
That sucks for everyone not a member of GK. Hey if that sword gives a leadership bonus and Ansom has his ablities intact what would happen if Ansom ended up with that sword. Most powerful warlord ever?

Well GK has a lot to rebuild. That should keep them busy for a while. I wonder where this new story will take place.

Chicken Little
2009-04-29, 09:56 AM
Has anyone else noticed that Wanda has not once referred to Parson as warlord, lord, hamster, etc. since getting the pliers?

The only time she's addressed him specifically she called him by his name, which I can not recall her ever having done before.

Coincidence or am I just being paranoid?

She's always called him by name. Only addressed him 5 times in total, so I don't feel so bad for having missed it. :smallredface:

Guru_jake
2009-04-29, 10:00 AM
Poor opposition :smallamused:

WW2 American Officer: *on a group of nazis* They got us surrounded, poor bastards.


Actual Post: I'm gonna say Ansom Knows what he is, it was more of a "What kind of monster have I become?!?!" kind of thing. My guess is that he's perfectly Sentient and has the same personality as before but the only difference now is that he is 100% perfectly, and unquestionably loyal to Wanda, with no chance of that changing as long as she has the Pliers.

On the Dragon Popping, Stanley probably sent it to the Queue when he decided to head back last turn. He was Running away and not looking back, why would he try saving what he thought was a doomed city by producing a valuable dwagon? There was no real rhyme or reason to it, he just did it.

Perhaps because of the hammer, he gets free Dwagons (perhaps just a certain number of free Dwagons?) but can only pop one a turn? Perhaps all of the Arkentools can do a super unit once a turn, which means Wanda would have to wait until tomorrow to do another Croaked Knight. (Which would also be a reason why Charlie would be a tad attached to his Archons. If time is money, then in Erfworld, a turn wait must be extremely valuable.)

Also, on the subject of the Previous Uncroaked Warlords having different emblems... It seems like any warlord can have their own emblem, as Lord Manpower had his bullseye emblem after being uncroaked... Wanda probably gave them (the uncroaked Jetstones) all the Hamstard logo because he was the only leader in the city.

AngryAngel
2009-04-29, 10:08 AM
A few comments:

Evil Wanda: love that smile, but evil? Nah, just ruthless. I have a soft spot for 'the "evil" necromancer turns out to be the hero' stories. I can see Wanda helping Parson and Stanley change Erfworld for the better.

The Arkenpliers: I doubt they're a one-shot item. In panel eleven they're probably hanging at Wanda's hip.

Ansom (uncroaked): "Something...glorious." An intriguing and (ahem) 'cryptic' remark. It'll be interesting to learn just what Ansom is now, and how his relationship to Wanda and his new side works.

Anias
2009-04-29, 10:15 AM
A couple quick comments:
1 - Amazing comic
2 - Great details
3 - A lot of questions answered : Dwagons pop, Wanda can uncroak with all the memories (and presumably intelligence, skills, etc) of previous life
4 - Wanda's smile = scary, though I'm not sure if it's more or less scary than her smile when she picked up the pliers
5 - Well, Ansom is alive/dead/uncroaked/none of these things; no one seems to know what he really is.
6 - Since Ansom is uncroaked (of a sort) does that mean that on top of all his previous power he gets the HUGE bonus that Wanda gives to uncroaked? That would make him...incredibly powerful, and if Wanda worked with him, boosting him with her bonus and spells (and decrypting any fallen friends/enemies)...well, that would be a truly deadly fighting force.
7 - Wow. Just wow.

CelebrenIthil
2009-04-29, 10:17 AM
Wohoo!

Lets see here.
1. Ansom has been resurrected by the use of powerful McGuffin.
2. He looks pretty much like he did in life except ominous red glow (as she powered him up) and new "evil-ified" imagery.
3. He's not a vampire (since erfworld vampires are special).
4. Drama-logic tells me he's not going to decay.

I don't 100% know what Ansom is, but 20 schmuckers that Ansom is now a Deathknight.

That's pretty much what I tought when reading the comic: DeathKnight anyone? (or more like... Decryptknight? Or, Croaknight?)
Betting the same as ya. XD

Wakky
2009-04-29, 10:25 AM
Yeah, it looks like Wanda now has a Deathknight, and a Duncan Idaho to boot.

kreszantas
2009-04-29, 10:28 AM
For those who are getting on Stanley about him remembering names you should review a few of the earlier strips, Wanda and Sizemore were the only 2 casters not in the link. Stanley could NOT CALL "Misty, Maggie or Jack" by their name while linked up (review recent magic kingdom strips) and he is at least attempting, he DOES call Wanda by hers so it is not like he is totally forgetful. The only one he does NOT get a pass on is Sizemore, yet there is a fallable excuse, if you never SEE that unit very often and dont have 3D glasses they will blend in just like the rest of the nameless cannon fodder.

Wanda has her own unit, skulls yea I would say it is a product of her, however she says its OUR turn so defection is not YET in the cards, if she DID attack the Parson the Dwagon would auto-attack. So she even with the 'half-life' Ansom would be hard press to take it from the rest and she relates with them enough not to commit a coup right now, she needs to kill Stanley for that to be of any advantage to her, yet he knows of the will of the titans so..... DUN DUN DUN... until next time folks same Erf channel same Erf time.

DevilDan
2009-04-29, 10:30 AM
He's still a pretty boy, huh? I disapprove. I wanted to quote Moe: "He's not so gorgeous no more."

Ansom could simply have been decrypted as a GK unit, not necessarily under some unholy bondage to Wanda. His question suggests two things: he has some memory of who he was before and he has been changed in some deep ways...

Sieggy
2009-04-29, 10:44 AM
Whoo-ha-ha!! Love it . . . Wanda has a new boytoy (literally), Parson has the satisfaction of having pulled off probably the single greatest (and most expensive) victory in Erf history, Stanley has a city to come back to (though he's going to scream when he sees the state it's in), Sizemore has become one with the mountain (and has many new sparklies), the only down side is that Bogroll is still dead.

At this point, I doubt very seriously if anyone other than the survivors or Stanley knows that GK didn't actually fall. Charlie may be a hell of a Thinkamancer, but he has to have eyes there to see. TV is going to be occupied with locating FAQ, and TBRH, I don't think they gave a cwap about Stanley to begin with; that was all Vinny. Once Jack is there, I suspect that all anyone will be seeing until Stanley is ready to start kicking boop again will be a smoldering caldera.

Of course, Erfworld in general and Charlie in particular are going to be in for a seriously major shock when they discover that Stanley and GK are back . . . As far as they know, GK is lava, everyone on Stanley's side is croaked, and Stanley himself is a barbarian. They're going to fweak when what they see as an entire uncroaked army led by their uncroaked former Prince coming forth from an uncroaked city. Wanda is going to have the most awesome reputation of any caster ever . . .

Given GKs new wealth, they ought to be able to pop one hell of an army, too. And pretty quickly.

Other than a resolution scene, I think Jillian is out of it for the remainder of this book - unless she sneaks away from Caesar with Vinny to verify that Ansom is really, really dead, in which case things will get very interesting very quickly. Wanda will see her coming long before Jillian gets close, and will have a welcome laid out for her. Probably Ansome standing there with open arms, or worse, Ansom standing there with Wanda in his arms.

The smiles are VERY unsettling - Wanda is obviously running a series of increasingly evil plans through her mind and is grinning in anticipation, and Parson is looking like a proud father. He, too, realizes what an asset they have, and is reveling in the irony of his foe being reduced to a minion. Not under his personal control, but at least no longer a threat. And Stanley's delight at Ansom's fate should be a sight to behold.

Great strip, and I'm going to be very sad when it ends . . . so, what's the timeline for the next book?

Fez
2009-04-29, 10:47 AM
You know, the more I think about the strips, I don't think the Stanley coming back is the same Stanley that left, that the setup for the next arc will thus differ a bit from expectations.

Stanley left with a particular belief and assumption set:

1. I'm the 'tool' of the Titans and destined to succeed
2. Thus any failures, are failures of my workers, not myself
3. Thus failures show my underlings are inept and not to be valued

So he took the mighty dragons the Titans gave him, and the least inept of his underlings and went to start over in Faq, because when you're destined by the Titans to succeed all you need is yourself. Let the incompetents who lost him his last kingdom get wiped out, heck let them get captured. They are so useless, who cares.

Instead?

He was forced to re-learn Jack's name, and that might have been symbolic of remembering his past and a bit of his own humanity in that everyone, even his underlings are people too.

He, and all his dragons, lost to a small squad of TVs and Jillian. His vaunted destiny failed.

The 'useless' squad he left to die against unimaginable odds, won.

When he comes back?

Wanda will will have attuned an arkentool too.

Sizemore will have killed thousands of enemies nearly singlehandedly in the tunnels, unearthed an inestimable fortune, and will have a new confidence to him.

Parson will be Parson, a super gamebreaking warlord, who might have some more tricks (one would think).

Basically, he will have been a failure, who is rediscovering empathy for others (as shown by the sitting and talking with Jack, naming Maggie) who is feeling a bit lost as his core belief takes a beating. And he'll be coming face to face with another hit to his megalomania, that his prior underlings are very competent and able to do unimaginable things, which will imply the past failures are indeed his fault.

Truthfully, I'm just enjoying the strips as I've said before so probably shouldn't be worrying too much about predicting Rob and Jamie.

Caledonian
2009-04-29, 10:48 AM
I have just one thing to say:

KING LEAR

You do me wrong to take me out o' the grave:
Thou art a soul in bliss; but I am bound
Upon a wheel of fire, that mine own tears
Do scald like moulten lead.

CORDELIA

Sir, do you know me?

KING LEAR

You are a spirit, I know: when did you die?

T-O-E
2009-04-29, 10:49 AM
Sentient uncroaked Ansom?

Yes!
As it was predicted (in the forums)!

It does seem so long ago.

teratorn
2009-04-29, 10:54 AM
Parson is looking like a proud father.

I see it differently, it looks like he is going for his sword.

Gez
2009-04-29, 11:03 AM
Battlespace is a reletively new term used by the US Military. The concept is a full intigration of all aspects of war from troops to intelligence to weather and even such things as radio and information warfare. Parson would know the term, but this kind of broad thinking is outside of the thinking patterns for Erfworlders. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlespace )

Sometimes a cigar is a cigar, and a battlespace is just the area surrounding all GK units. Think of it as the map in a game. There's stuff outside the map, but it doesn't matter as long as it stays outside the map.

This process allows to have two warring sides have each one half a day, without having to take into account the turns of other sides far away which aren't involved in their local conflict.

Sethram
2009-04-29, 11:13 AM
I disagree with Ansom still being a pretty boy. In the last panel his eyes are sunken in. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw his cheeks sunken in in other perspectives.

It's funny, Ansom was the only Leader one I considered good. He was the only one you've seen really caring for his troops, to the point where he fights amongst them to prevent their casualties.

Now he appears to be workin for GK's side. If he retains some of his personality, such as his value of his troops lives, I'm wondering if Parson will start to pick up on that. We've already seen Parson's reaction to the aftermath, so I don't consider it too far fetched. It'd be even more likely to happen if Parson uses him to find out more about Erf.

raphfrk
2009-04-29, 11:13 AM
This process allows to have two warring sides have each one half a day, without having to take into account the turns of other sides far away which aren't involved in their local conflict.

I wonder if days can pass at a different rate in different battlespaces. If you were in a battlespace with lots of combat, turns could take much longer than if you are the only unit.

One issue would be that cities would end up having a higher production rate in battlespaces with a faster turn rate. Maybe "night" is really to allow resyncing.

chefsotero
2009-04-29, 11:19 AM
I suddenly see the Master dancing through the ruins of Gobwin Knob, swinging the Akenpliers overhead.

"I can't decide whether you should live or die..."

If Wanda kisses Parson I'll have an doctorgams

And now wanda, there is another warlord begging to be Decrypted, is the lil cute one in the red armor just behind you.



What's with dwagons popping? It said that dwagons were "tamed" by the hammer. Also, is that a gloating smile Parson has? Maybe a nervous smile instead. I don't think he'd be inclined to gloat at the moment.

And Untammed dwagons may just be an flying unit, Tammed ones count as mount (like only heroes could fly with dragons in Warlords - Oh boy anyone here even remember warlords I?)

Draz74
2009-04-29, 11:26 AM
Anyone else worried that Wanda's treatment of Ansom's body isn't primarily for the sake of GK's military power, nor even for the sake of furthering Croakamancy research, but because she wants revenge on Ansom for stealing Jill's heart?

I don't know if she even knows that he was the reason Jill ditched her. But if she does ... ooh. Hell hath no fury like a Croakamancer scorned. :smalleek:

Kreistor
2009-04-29, 11:34 AM
I don't know if she even knows that he was the reason Jill ditched her. But if she does ... ooh. Hell hath no fury like a Croakamancer scorned. :smalleek:

But Jillian didn't leave Wanda: she only broke the Suggestion spell. Later, she went to GK ona rescue mission. Jillian clearly still cares for Wanda, and Wanda knows it.

DevilDan
2009-04-29, 11:34 AM
We have a sort of de-facto definition of "battlespace": no one is actively moving against GK: Each conflict is its own battlespace. That said, I'm not going to worry about defining that huge a concept.

We cannot possibly guess Wanda's motivations or her next actions: her actions are grounded in a prophecy, one whose accuracy has been recently revalidated.

SteveMB
2009-04-29, 11:50 AM
Anyone else worried that Wanda's treatment of Ansom's body isn't primarily for the sake of GK's military power, nor even for the sake of furthering Croakamancy research, but because she wants revenge on Ansom for stealing Jill's heart?

I don't know if she even knows that he was the reason Jill ditched her. But if she does ... ooh. Hell hath no fury like a Croakamancer scorned. :smalleek:

During the confrontation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0105.html) at the tower, Jillian explains that Ansom was annoying, but -- unlike Wands -- never pushed matters "too far".

Mando Knight
2009-04-29, 12:01 PM
So... Decrypt-Ansom... is probably the strongest unit on Stanley's side if Ansom didn't loose any levels from the decrypting...

If Bogroll's +2 levels from killing Ansom were significant enough, he might be the next target for becoming a Decrypt.

chefsotero
2009-04-29, 12:10 PM
Anyone else worried that Wanda's treatment of Ansom's body isn't primarily for the sake of GK's military power, nor even for the sake of furthering Croakamancy research, but because she wants revenge on Ansom for stealing Jill's heart?

Well Anson is the strongest croaked warlord laying around and I assume that power of uncroacked is proportional to power when still alive, so regardless of other intentions he would be the best strategic choice right now anyways, If she gets an uncroacked boytoy that may be fun to play with her alive girltoy, BONUS

EDIT: Ninj'ed

Happydork
2009-04-29, 12:12 PM
If the decrypted units don't decompose and don't require upkeep, they are a game breaker. Stanley could fairly quickly have a massivly powerful army without upkeep. In a couple of hundred turns, they would be unstopable.

DevilDan
2009-04-29, 12:26 PM
If the decrypted units don't decompose and don't require upkeep, they are a game breaker. Stanley could fairly quickly have a massivly powerful army without upkeep. In a couple of hundred turns, they would be unstopable.

A couple of hundred turns is a long time: we don't know how much they'd age (which is something we don't know anything about...).

We also don't know how much "juice" it took to decrypt Ansom. Could be even Wanda can't do that but once (or a couple of times) a turn. We know that concentration is involved in other croakamantic feats.

Glorendil
2009-04-29, 12:28 PM
That was a very enjoyable page... in general this comics is only getting better.

Some random thoughts:
1. Wanda raising Ansom - Seemed the logical thing to do with the Arkenpliers. As I see it Ansom is clearly her pet, and he seems at his full abilities as if he was alive. As others did, I wonder if he carries her bonus as an uncroaked or not.

2. Wanda & the pliers - I think the capabilities of the pliers are unknown to Wanda, and she just tests them. I think it'll take her some time to wield them effectively.

3. Wanda vs. Stanley - Although it was said she has no loyalty spell on her (or something like that) I doubt she'll break off from him. She didn't break her alliance with him when she had a chance, and she was very keen on saving him (took Parson some convincing to use the uncroaked air units). The only thing to contradict that is if getting the pliers was her agenda, and if that was the case her days with Stanley are indeed numbered. However, I don't think she'll break off now - her side is weakened enough as it is.

Vreejack
2009-04-29, 12:29 PM
Has anyone else noticed that Wanda has not once referred to Parson as warlord, lord, hamster, etc. since getting the pliers?

The only time she's addressed him specifically she called him by his name, which I can not recall her ever having done before.

Coincidence or am I just being paranoid?

Lazy. She goes out of her way to call him "Parson" back when Stanley was complaining about his name. She knows exactly what Parson is. She knows that Parson appreciates having his name used, and that he does not need need to hear some made-up title from her.

teratorn
2009-04-29, 12:29 PM
If the decrypted units don't decompose and don't require upkeep, they are a game breaker. Stanley could fairly quickly have a massivly powerful army without upkeep. In a couple of hundred turns, they would be unstopable.

For some reason they are the Arkentools. These things are supposed to give a huge boost to those attuned to them. Dwagons, archons, decrypted. What does the other known arkentool do?

SteveMB
2009-04-29, 12:37 PM
Has anyone else noticed that Wanda has not once referred to Parson as warlord, lord, hamster, etc. since getting the pliers?

The only time she's addressed him specifically she called him by his name, which I can not recall her ever having done before.

She's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0019.html) called (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0024.html) him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0045.html) by (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0047.html) name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0053.html) ever since he was summoned. (She also sometimes uses "Commander"/"Warlord" titles occasionally, but it seems to me that she more often simply calls him "Parson".)

Nenec
2009-04-29, 12:50 PM
Nenec:Out of curiosity, why do you think he deserves to be betrayed? Like I said above, there's really no proof that he betrayed anyone, and all of the other sides seem to be at least as evil as he is. Like TV now wanting to force Jillian to take them to FAQ. Or Charlie manipulating the situation to increase his profit.

I just don't like him, skin sensation. Plus he fled to save his but and left them on their own in a critical battle situation, already sure GK was doomed. It's not good or evil factor, it's just antipathy.

raphfrk
2009-04-29, 12:54 PM
If the decrypted units don't decompose and don't require upkeep, they are a game breaker. Stanley could fairly quickly have a massivly powerful army without upkeep. In a couple of hundred turns, they would be unstopable.

It depends on how many she can uncroak at once. If you can mass-raise *and* have them not decay, then she could potentially almost double the size of Stanley's army each turn, i.e use 10 units to kill 5 units and you have 15 units at the start of the next turn. Once you are killing 1000 units with 2000 units, you are really starting to get powerful very quickly. (Also, in combat raising would make your current units even more powerful).

However, the power is balanced by the fact that it requires her to be present. At least with the hammer, it seems that the dragons are just added as a build option. In principle, Stanley doesn't need to actually lead them. (though has it been said that the hammer gives a bonus to dragons?).

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-29, 01:05 PM
Well, back to stragery. What units should Wanda raise? The warlords, Scarlet, Sheroy and Noozles? Or the Archons, given there's something left to raise? Archons are cool units, but there is the possibility that Charley's artefact can chancel Wanda's.

By the way I don't think Ansom will be a simple boy toy for Wanda. I guess he kept his memories and deep down hates Wanda, but he is forced by natural thinkamancy to serve her. Kinda like Sizemore, just even more tragic and without the hope that this will change something for the better.

BRC
2009-04-29, 01:07 PM
Oh yeah, Wanda is going to super-rez the RCC warlords for sure. Also, hopefully, Bogroll.

Kyouhen
2009-04-29, 01:14 PM
Wow, this was a good one. Wanda's like a little kid with a new toy flamethrower. First thing she does is find out what'll happen if she points it at someone. And I LOVE her smile with the "I don't know" comment. :smallbiggrin:

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-29, 01:22 PM
I'd be cool to see Bogroll again, some gobwins, Mung and the KISS guys. But they are gone forever :smallfrown:. The bodies of the GK troops disappeared when GKs turn began.

Opal Tide
2009-04-29, 01:29 PM
Great, great page. I eagerly look forward to the reunion of the entire GK team.

Couple loose ends:

1) Where did the arkenpliers go in the least few panels?

2) Something appears to be askew about Parson's right hand in the second to last panel.

3) Stanley refers to GK as home, implying some sort of emotional attachment to it.

Can't wait for the next page!

GamingBuddha
2009-04-29, 01:30 PM
Bogroll, we need Bogroll! I wonder if Decrypt fixes damage done to the units since normal Croakamancy did not seem to, otherwise maybe it is better to leave Bogroll as he is if Regeneration does not bring him back/repair the damage.

Supposedly units disappear at start of turn after death, what if by burying Misty, her body is still around to be Decrypted?

Ravens_cry
2009-04-29, 01:43 PM
*second to last panel*
Wanda has a simply infectious evil smile.
I have a feeling something glorious is indeed on the way.:smallbiggrin:

Gez
2009-04-29, 02:05 PM
My hypothesis for the way how Twoll regeneration worked was that if the corpse had been left unattended and was still in a controlled area, then instead of vanishing it is revived. That should be proven or disproven fairly soon now.


Why would Wanda betray Stanley? She already knows how to control him. There have been enough hints that the whole "divine plan of the Titan" thing was something Wanda came up with, too.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-04-29, 02:12 PM
His hand isn't mucked up. He's just reaching to pat Wanda on the shoulder and his fingers are obscured behind her shoulder pad.I thought he was reaching for his sword, which is on the same hip as his hand is near. Dunno if this is simple caution, either of Newsom or Wanda, but if he is at all worried he should be wearing his 3D glasses so he'd have a better idea of the capabilities of Newsome.
The battle space comment is important. That implies that everyone's turn starts at dawn as long as they are not at war or, at least, not in the range of anyone that can attack them if they are at war.Er, not so much. It doesn't imply anything, it rather reinforces the fact that there are no enemy present. If there had been RCC or Charlescom units present (or barbarian, apparently) then the GK turn would not have begun with dawn.
I find it incredible that even with a volcano blowing up the city, it still stands. What is the exact mechanism to make a city fall then?Presumably, to be an enemy unit with no units of that city present at turn end.
What's with dwagons popping? It said that dwagons were "tamed" by the hammer.There could be wild or barbarian dwagons which can be tamed, and the Arcenhammer may allow a side to use cities to build more. Right now the only thing we can know for certain is that dwagons may be popped by city production. The whole "taming" shtick might be as simple as pointing at a dwagon while being attuned to the Arcenhammer and saying "Get in line, my new dwagon unit."
Now, while I said I'm not interested in de-cryped units, there are still some interesting things going on that I'd like to comment on. Ansom seems to be way more himself then I thought he would be. I figured he would immediately know what he was and have the subservient attitude. Like a newly popped unit does.If Newsome is the Arcen-equivalent to dwagons and archons, he needs to be more than the typical pikeman whatever. And if Wanda is the first unit on Erf to attune to the Arcenpliers then some ambivalence about this new unit type is warranted.

Lamech
2009-04-29, 02:21 PM
I wonder how many she can uncroak. I would suggest archers, and something like twolls. Also I wonder if they get a boost to power, or a change in upkeep. And we don't know that the dwagons are part of the quene. It could be something independent. A dwagon might pop every five turns at the capital of the hammer wielder or something.

Although the dwagons are probably in the quene that would make the most sense. I wonder if the gobwins are poping anything.

SteveMB
2009-04-29, 02:24 PM
I wonder if the gobwins are poping anything.

We still don't know where sides without their own cities (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0088.html) get units.

DoctorJest
2009-04-29, 02:25 PM
Crypt: A place for dead people
De-Crypt: take someone back from that place = came back to live?


"Decrypt" doesn't really imply ressurection to any greater extent than "uncroaked" does.

I am guessing it's a more powerful version of Uncroaking, one that can make intelligent uncroaked.

Soronhen
2009-04-29, 02:31 PM
I assumed at first glance that the mechanical meaning to not being "in the battlespace" is that none of those sides have units close enough to GK units that they could conceivably meet this turn, so that it can't possibly matter which side goes first.

But in the case of the Transylvito group and the dwagon group, they should at least conceivably be able to meet again at the pass to Faq. So I guess it has more of a meta-definition where intent is included. Stanley intends to return to GK and the Transylvitoans intend to go on to Faq, so they won't meet this turn. Interesting.

Pointyleaf
2009-04-29, 02:45 PM
I'd be cool to see Bogroll again, some gobwins, Mung and the KISS guys. But they are gone forever :smallfrown:. The bodies of the GK troops disappeared when GKs turn began.

I don't think the GK units that died on RCC's turn have disappeared yet - it hasn't been a whole turn.

Angband
2009-04-29, 02:47 PM
If the Rings of Power gave rise to the RingWraiths, would the ArkenPliers give rise to the Needlenozgūl?

In any event, it looks like Wanda using the Pliers to assemble her own personal Vise Squad.

Oslecamo
2009-04-29, 03:04 PM
My hypothesis for the way how Twoll regeneration worked was that if the corpse had been left unattended and was still in a controlled area, then instead of vanishing it is revived. That should be proven or disproven fairly soon now.


I'm pretty sure that burned, and then hit by an uncroacked volcano doesn't exactly count as "unattended".

Gez
2009-04-29, 03:04 PM
About GK not being destroyed: remember that the volcano did not blast from its ancient caldera, but from one of the sides (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0150.html). The ruins of GK have not been flooded with lava. Really, the insistence that the city would be entirely unmade because all the enemies are dead doesn't make much sense.


Newsom

Nah, he should be called Loafsom now.

Yodimus
2009-04-29, 03:17 PM
If the decrypted units don't decompose and don't require upkeep, they are a game breaker. Stanley could fairly quickly have a massivly powerful army without upkeep. In a couple of hundred turns, they would be unstopable.

We don't know if they require upkeep or not yet. If Ansom has truly been resurrected, then he'd essentially be the equivalent of a living unit, upkeep and all. We also don't know how quickly/how many Wanda can resurrect in a given turn. We don't know a lot, actually.

dr pepper
2009-04-29, 04:07 PM
Here you go, DevilDan:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/grixit/ansom1.png

That was just a cutout.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/grixit/ansom2.png

This one i cleaned up the colors a little.

lord of kobolds
2009-04-29, 04:21 PM
The most important part about Newsom is not his power, it's the psychological effect it will have on the RCC. Seeing their former leader charge into battle against them, they'll break.

Mars
2009-04-29, 04:47 PM
Since no one got my Duncan Idaho (Dune) prediction i'm just going to say it.

Ansom will be used to fight against Jillian and Co.

Jillian and Co. will start losing

When all is about lost, Ansom breaks out of his uncroaked phase and becomes

un-uncroaked...thereby becoming regular Ansom again.

chefsotero
2009-04-29, 05:00 PM
The most important part about Newsom is not his power, it's the psychological effect it will have on the RCC. Seeing their former leader charge into battle against them, they'll break.

Doubli-so for Jillian


Since no one got my Duncan Idaho (Dune) prediction i'm just going to say it.

if so it may happen with Erf the same that happened with Dune, the 1st book is aweson, the rest, not so much..... (and I would hate to see that)

Pointyleaf
2009-04-29, 05:09 PM
Re: Duncan Idaho - We got it.. does he set off a bunch of explosives and kill Wanda, too? Plus don't forget he has to get his memories back first.

kunsttyv
2009-04-29, 05:19 PM
Regarding the discussion on turn order, dawn and suchlike, I want to remind people of this:



...

Every side gets exactly one turn a day.
There is a natural turn order. When sides ally, their next turn is shared at the latest slot in the day of any of the allied sides.

...


More here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5448054#post5448054

Vreejack
2009-04-29, 05:20 PM
Since no one got my Duncan Idaho (Dune) prediction i'm just going to say it.

Ansom will be used to fight against Jillian and Co.

Jillian and Co. will start losing

When all is about lost, Ansom breaks out of his uncroaked phase and becomes

un-uncroaked...thereby becoming regular Ansom again.

Well, that only worked dramatically because as a clone Duncan Idaho was nothing special. People of power were accustomed to clones and thought they knew how clones worked. Clones were only physical copies without any of the memories of the original. What made Duncan dramatic was that he revocered his "genetic" memories in a way that no one thought possible.

The warlord formerly known as "Prince" Ansom is an entirely new thing; no-one has any expectations of him whatsoever, so the Duncan Idaho trope doesn't really work. It could be that he is exactly what he was before, the heir of Jetstone, resurrected. But that would be stupid. If uncroaked are to be useful it is assumed that they should have some kind of bond with the necromancer.

Perhaps Prince Un-some will one day recover his free will in some distant story arc, but but having it happen right away would make attuning to the arkenpliers right about useless.

Besides, even uncroaked warlords had at least a weak memory of their former selves. Remember "Pie" ? Ansom very likely has all his old memories, in the nature of a greater sort of undead. Otherwise he would not be very useful, or special. Doesn't decay? Big deal. None of the other uncroaked warlords got a chance to decay either.

BLANDCorporatio
2009-04-29, 05:24 PM
Well, back to stragery. What units should Wanda raise? The warlords, Scarlet, Sheroy and Noozles? Or the Archons, given there's something left to raise? Archons are cool units, but there is the possibility that Charley's artefact can chancel Wanda's.

Interesting question, but we don't have enough information about what GK can produce right now.

For instance, my first thought was that I'd make builders, and those golems proved tough in combat too ... then I realized Sizemore could just make more.

So, I don't know. GK needs builders and cannon fodder infantry, but if it can get that on its own, Wanda can focus on rezzing some powerful units - IF she can Decrypt more than once.

Remember Decryption is a time consuming process if you don't have the key ...

DevilDan
2009-04-29, 05:49 PM
Thanks, Dr Pepper. I shall call him Unsom.

Given the creativity of the writer and artist, how did they resist the temptation to fudge with Ansom's look and restrain themselves to just a few changes in the costume? Plot may be involved in that decision.

I hope his new helmet has the decency of looking like a skull.

Estelindis
2009-04-29, 05:51 PM
More than the insane grin on Wanda's face I'm worried about Parson's sarcastic grin...am I the only one noticing that?
No, that's disturbing me too. :smalleek:

Poor Ansom. :smallfrown: He fought so hard to free his troops from undeath and now, whether he knows who he used to be or not, he seems powerless to free himself from it.

El_Chupachichis
2009-04-29, 06:10 PM
How long before someone requests Fan Service in the form of a resurrected Scarlet?

Goshen
2009-04-29, 06:28 PM
I guess Stanley doesn't need to find and tame Dwagons after all. And now Wanda can move through the ruins and revive all the best Gobwin/Coalition units, maybe even Archons...
Word. Any units that Wanda "Decrypts" could be a lot of things, but definitely NOT free-willed. Zounds! if she does a careful intense uber-uncroak of all the powerful units and then a mass uber-uncroak all the foot soldiers, GK suddenly has a BIG, powerful force--all under Wanda's thumb. :smalleek:

I think she has no reason to turn against Stanley, at this point. if she is not powerful enough to challenge him, she won't. If she is powerful enough, she won't need to. She's pretty confident in her ability to manipulate Stanley, and comes with an Arkentool, three top casters, and a brace of dragons.

Awesome, awesome strip.

Stormthorn
2009-04-29, 06:30 PM
That about tears it. In the last comic when she said "I wished for you" i worried she was getting power drunk. Wanda has gone off the deep end.

ishnar
2009-04-29, 06:43 PM
How long before someone requests Fan Service in the form of a resurrected Scarlet?

I would have if it wern't obvious that Scarlet is not to be found.

Wanda specifically moved Ansome so he would still be around when the new turn started. Any corpses that haven't been moved are not around to uncroak.

On the other hand, since no one has mentioned it, there is a buried corpse somewhere that might be resable.

Drakron
2009-04-29, 06:53 PM
I think a lot are forgetting one thing.

You can un-croak a unit but it becomes uncroaked (undead) but what happened was Ansom was RESURRECTED, that was supposed to be impossible.

Also it seems Ansom was "reset", as if he just poop (remenber, everyone just poops as a adult, there no children or anything).

ishnar
2009-04-29, 07:05 PM
I think a lot are forgetting one thing.

You can un-croak a unit but it becomes uncroaked (undead) but what happened was Ansom was RESURRECTED, that was supposed to be impossible.

Also it seems Ansom was "reset", as if he just poop (remenber, everyone just poops as a adult, there no children or anything).

Considering that Wanda said Ansom is something new, we can assume that he is NOT resurrected, since a living unit is not new.

But I like the term poop and think we should use it for all newly pooped units.

SPoD
2009-04-29, 07:11 PM
I think a lot are forgetting one thing.

You can un-croak a unit but it becomes uncroaked (undead) but what happened was Ansom was RESURRECTED, that was supposed to be impossible.

The skulls on Ansom's costume strongly implies that even if this is a straight resurrection, it's one that has the side effect of converting him to Wanda's thrall. The difference between an intelligent non-rotting uncroaked and an enslaved resurrected Ansom may well be too fine a hair to split.


(remenber, everyone just poops as a adult,

I think my little nephew got that book to help with toilet training: Everyone Poops. :wink:

chefsotero
2009-04-29, 07:34 PM
The skulls on Ansom's costume strongly implies that even if this is a straight resurrection, it's one that has the side effect of converting him to Wanda's thrall. The difference between an intelligent non-rotting uncroaked and an enslaved resurrected Ansom may well be too fine a hair to split.


Upkeep would be a big diference in those 2 scenarios, and any possible extra-special-uber-uncroaked powers too

joosy
2009-04-29, 07:38 PM
That about tears it. In the last comic when she said "I wished for you" i worried she was getting power drunk. Wanda has gone off the deep end.

Wanda never said "I wished for you" she said "It <Erfworld> wished for you"

---------------------------
So we have a new type of 'decrypted' unit and a powerful former Chief Warlord to boot. He doesn't appear like the other uncroaked and has mental and vocal capabilities on par with a living unit.

So..

ArkenHammer has dwagons (assuming wild ones can be tamed as well as being added to the production queue)

Arkendish has Thinkamancy and the Archons - no word on whether they require upkeep or if they are difficult to produce. They would be a gamebreaker in themselves if there was no balance on production time/upkeep, I would think.

Arkenpliers has the decrypted unit. Requires a croaked unit. Appears to restore unit to its former strength AND mental faculties. We will see if all croaked units in an area can be 'de-crypted' in one action. Decrypting appears to be only possible during GK's turn. Interesting to see if this is a gamebreaker or not. (powerful units who don't decay that require no upkeep).

and then there is at least one more Arkentool out there.. I would agree with a previous poster that, given Rob's penchant for clever puns, it would be the Arkensaw. or ArkenShovel or ARkenrake or Arkenswissarmyknife or ArkenAllen(wrench) .. hmm.. this is fun. I think I'll go to Home Depot to see how many different type of Arkentools I can name :) Security is going to love me there.

Spot
2009-04-29, 08:02 PM
A few thoughts:

(1) This comic just gets better and better! :smallsmile:

(2) Wanda is definately a force to be reckoned with now... which, for Parson and friends, is a good thing.

Parson isn't going to survive on Erfworld by being on a side composed of wimps and pushovers... in fact, if Wanda and Maggie and Sizemore weren't all very accomplished casters, then Parson would already be dead.

(4) I'm guesing that Stanley is about to be very pleased with both Wanda and Parson and much more pleasant to be around.

He abandoned them to die in what he thought was a hopeless situation... and they managed to win the battle for him, by completely wiping out the enemy's field army.

Even Stanley will be able to understand why you listen to folks who can deliver those results.

(5) Stanley was right. His forces *aren't* the bad guys.

Erfworld is a wargame. To call Wanda evil simply because she reuses units that have been moved into the discard pile, while calling Jillian good when she activelly wanders around on peep-back causing units to go to the discard pile, is simply propaganda from the anti-Stanley folks.
:smallsmile:

Amplify
2009-04-29, 08:38 PM
I for one really, really hope that Wanda tests if Ansom is bound to serve her every whim through a method such as "Bark like a dog!" in the next comic. The possiblities of such a power would be endless. The body was already broken, work on the mind next, and so forth.

Goshen
2009-04-29, 08:50 PM
I just don't like him, skin sensation. Plus he fled to save his but and left them on their own in a critical battle situation, already sure GK was doomed. It's not good or evil factor, it's just antipathy. Me too! I hate Stanley, because he is a classic callous abuser type. He is not out to hurt anyone, specifically, just generally willing to use people up in a personal and petty way. His incompetence and his human qualities, even his good qualities, make them more emotionally real. I suppose I'm biased because I suffered under a crazy boss who was similar enough. I think he is "scary" because he's the kind of villain that really is quite common in the real world, and very easy to get mixed up with.

Towards Wanda I have a mixture of attraction and fear. The only time we have seen her being "abusive" in the BSM games she and Jillian like to play. That's not the same thing. She has actually be fairly respectful to those around her, although she's ruthless enough to sacrifice anyone to get what she wants. Not admirable in a real person, but again it's a different kind of evil. Anyway, she is so sexy, so competent, and frankly classy I have to admire her.

Aquillion
2009-04-29, 09:23 PM
Ew. :smallsigh: Parson's hand has been mucked up in the second last panel. Maybe now he is double jointed?No, look closer. His hand is mostly hidden behind Wanda (he's reaching for his sword) -- its her spikes that are confusing you; they overlap with his arm and make a skin-shaped area that looks like a thumb. But if you look closer, it's clear that his fingers and thumb are hidden behind Wanda.

stupidface
2009-04-29, 09:53 PM
I'll bet the term battlespace refers to the area in which two sides can interact with one another. If you're in the middle of nowhere with no other sides to interact with, turns don't even matter. Your turn is the whole day. As you enter a battlespace your actions are then retrofitted to appear whenever is appropriate.

Like, say you have 30 move and are approaching someone else's side. Your turn starts at dawn and you move until you cross into a hex that the other side's units could interact with (perhaps due to them having sufficient move to interact with you).

From here the other side could see you in a few different ways. If the 'home advantage' is having their turn first, they would be ignorant of your presence until ending turn, and watch you appear on the horizon afterwards, as your turn arrived. If there were some other criteria for turns, then you might appear at dawn for them and they'd have a turn to react to it afterward.

Let's say you used 28 of your move reaching a battlezone hex. I think it would stand to reason that you'd still have 2 move remaining to do as much damage (or diplomacy, as the case may be) as you could.

And yeah, decrypt is totally uncroak+. And no one in erf says 'cwoaked.' He's a decrypted unit.

e: if it's true that the arkenpliers are not in Wanda's hands anymore, and that this isn't because of some art blooper, I can only assume that the essence of the arkenpliers have absorbed into Ansom somehow, making him the living incarnation of the arkenpliers, which are attuned to Wanda.

Eraniverse
2009-04-29, 09:54 PM
Erfworld is a wargame. To call Wanda evil simply because she reuses units that have been moved into the discard pile, while calling Jillian good when she activelly wanders around on peep-back causing units to go to the discard pile, is simply propaganda from the anti-Stanley folks.
:smallsmile:

I call her evil because she enjoys her work too much, not because of any of the thematic issues that plague Stanley's forces. But she's the delightful kind of evil to have on your side.

Krenn
2009-04-29, 10:17 PM
I assumed at first glance that the mechanical meaning to not being "in the battlespace" is that none of those sides have units close enough to GK units that they could conceivably meet this turn, so that it can't possibly matter which side goes first.

But in the case of the Transylvito group and the dwagon group, they should at least conceivably be able to meet again at the pass to Faq. So I guess it has more of a meta-definition where intent is included. Stanley intends to return to GK and the Transylvitoans intend to go on to Faq, so they won't meet this turn. Interesting.

maybe ansom and the bats moved in opposite directions at the end of LAST turn...? Your definition is about the same as mine.

Soronhen
2009-04-29, 10:35 PM
maybe ansom and the bats moved in opposite directions at the end of LAST turn...? Your definition is about the same as mine.


The thing is, even if they did, (and I doubt the bats moved after fighting Stanley because they had already finished their turn) they should have the same amount of move this turn as last turn, and would be able to meet up again at the pass this turn if they wanted to.

Stormthorn
2009-04-29, 10:40 PM
Wanda never said "I wished for you" she said "It <Erfworld> wished for you"

Your right. She gets half a chance back. She gets half a chance back. When i went back to check it looked to me like her eyes where glowing with power, so she gets half a chance back instead of a whole chance.

Krenn
2009-04-29, 11:00 PM
The thing is, even if they did, (and I doubt the bats moved after fighting Stanley because they had already finished their turn) they should have the same amount of move this turn as last turn, and would be able to meet up again at the pass this turn if they wanted to.

hmm... you're right. for a minute I thought this was the SECOND turn since the battle at the pass, but it's only the first.

joosy
2009-04-29, 11:23 PM
I believe Battlespace just refers to when someone is actively opposing you.

We have seen where Transylvito entered into the battle against GK but not as part of the RCC. That put their turn at dawn but at a distance far away from GK. Then it was Charlie's turn. THEN it was GK's turn. Then it was RCC's turn.

On GK's turn both Stanley and Parson got to act but they were separated by quite a few hexes.

Ergo, Battlespace is not a defined area, but a determining of turn order between opposing forces.

Since noone is opposing GK this turn (Transylvito is not moving against them) that puts GK's turn at dawn.

Tarian
2009-04-30, 12:44 AM
Just in case it's not obvious. I love Wanda's smile. It's so sinister. Great comic! Looking forward to the updates.

Moechi_Vill
2009-04-30, 01:29 AM
... ordos... kunos! ... ordos... Ansomae!

Kreistor
2009-04-30, 03:05 AM
Battlespace...

I was thinking about this the other day. The problem with a real-time combat/turn-based strategy game is one of day length. Eacah side gets a full turn, but there's no indication of how long that turn is, so the day will not always be so many ours long.

Now, here's the brain twister... if you are fighting two battles on different fronts, how do all the turn orders interact?

Now we have an answer, of sorts.

Each battle has a declared Battlespace. Each Side has a turn order, but only inside that Battlespace. Now there is no waiting for the activities on Front 1 waiting for the turns of people on Front 2.

Next up... how do you determine the size of the Battlespace?

Well, at day break, for each Side, determine what total area that could be reached. Next, determine where these areas overlap. Battlespace is wherever there is overlap. All units that can enter Battlespace are influenced by the Turn Order of that Battlespace. Units that are not capable of reaching Battlespace have normal day Turns.

In the case of Transylvito... bats don't have great move -- I'm not going to look it up, but I think Jilian said they were 22, vs. some of her gwiffons at 50+. Dwagons could have 50+ move.

There may also be "intent" involved, too. Transylvito intends on moving away towards Faq, so though the dwagons and bats could theoretically intersect, they both intend to go different directions, so there is no possibility of battle, despite a theoretical chance of encounter. There must also be a set of rules for accidental encounters -- informal battles, for Sides or Barbarians that are unaware of each other and have no formal intent to make war. Since both Sides are moving, both should be able to retreat out of hex, for instance, so long as one side has a Commander or better.

I could speculate more, but there aren't a lot of options for this. It has to be a fairly simple rule set, and even this may be too complex.

raphfrk
2009-04-30, 04:42 AM
If the decrypted units don't decompose and don't require upkeep, they are a game breaker. Stanley could fairly quickly have a massivly powerful army without upkeep. In a couple of hundred turns, they would be unstopable.

It depends on how many she can uncroak at once. If you can mass-raise *and* have them not decay, then she could potentially almost double the size of Stanley's army each turn, i.e use 10 units to kill 5 units and you have 15 units at the start of the next turn. Once you are killing 1000 units with 2000 units, you are really starting to get powerful very quickly. (Also, in combat raising would make your current units even more powerful).

However, the power is balanced by the fact that it requires her to be present. At least with the hammer, it seems that the dragons are just added as a build option. In principle, Stanley doesn't need to actually lead them. (though has it been said that the hammer gives a bonus to dragons?).

raphfrk
2009-04-30, 04:57 AM
If the decrypted units don't decompose and don't require upkeep, they are a game breaker. Stanley could fairly quickly have a massivly powerful army without upkeep. In a couple of hundred turns, they would be unstopable.

It depends on how many she can uncroak at once. If you can mass-raise *and* have them not decay, then she could potentially almost double the size of Stanley's army each turn, i.e use 10 units to kill 5 units and you have 15 units at the start of the next turn. Once you are killing 1000 units with 2000 units, you are really starting to get powerful very quickly. (Also, in combat raising would make your current units even more powerful).

However, the power is balanced by the fact that it requires her to be present. At least with the hammer, it seems that the dragons are just added as a build option. In principle, Stanley doesn't need to actually lead them. (though has it been said that the hammer gives a bonus to dragons?).

Oslecamo
2009-04-30, 05:19 AM
I could speculate more, but there aren't a lot of options for this. It has to be a fairly simple rule set, and even this may be too complex.

Simple? I highly doubt so. So far Efworld has showed to be quite a complex wargame:

1-Lots of options in basic combat like capturing, attack specific targets, divert, dismount, disarm.

2-Possible for multiple factions to fight each other in a FFA, instead of the typical team A x team B, and even for new sides to exit or enter a battle, plus neutral factions whitout cities of their own.

3-Units gain experience, level up, and can be promoted to stronger units, plus being equiped with special equipments.

4-Economic system where you can produce new units and have to pay upkeep, plus the possibility of buying special equipment.

5-Complex leadership system where several warlords can stack their bonuses and then the bonus is also affected by your distance to your units.

6-Complex loyalty system where you can persuade other units to fight for you but they can backstab you when you less expect it.

7-Mancers, nuff said, with plenty of special powers that mess up with all of the above.

So it's a very complex wargame with lots of rules and quircks. Remember that all this action hapened in what, 3-4 turns so far? It woud surely be a wargame that would take whole RL days to play a single big battle.

kunsttyv
2009-04-30, 06:00 AM
...
Each battle has a declared Battlespace. Each Side has a turn order, but only inside that Battlespace.
...



I think you are overcomplicating things. We have Word of God that there is a natural turn order.

That someones turn starts at dawn does most likely mean that they haven't observed anyone elses turn before them. If Charlie isn't still allied with Jetstone (and therefore share their _later_ turn), he has already had his turn. Since all his remaining units are far away from Gobwin Knob, they were in no position to observe him, and his turn was not observed.

The turn order within a battlespace is the subset of the natural turnorder where just the turn order of the participating (and observed) sides are used/observed. Non-participating sides may have had their unobserved turns in between.

Think turnbased computer wargames.

SteveMB
2009-04-30, 06:15 AM
if it's true that the arkenpliers are not in Wanda's hands anymore, and that this isn't because of some art blooper, I can only assume that the essence of the arkenpliers have absorbed into Ansom somehow, making him the living incarnation of the arkenpliers, which are attuned to Wanda.

Magic items can change size -- they may just be shrunken down for convenient storage. I mean, it's not like Wanda had cargo pockets in that outfit.

Nenec
2009-04-30, 07:13 AM
Me too! [...]
Towards Wanda I have a mixture of attraction and fear. [...]

I had it cut cause it was too long to quote, but I agree with all you said, really!

raphfrk
2009-04-30, 08:33 AM
Next up... how do you determine the size of the Battlespace?

Well, at day break, for each Side, determine what total area that could be reached. Next, determine where these areas overlap. Battlespace is wherever there is overlap. All units that can enter Battlespace are influenced by the Turn Order of that Battlespace. Units that are not capable of reaching Battlespace have normal day Turns.


That could very easily end up linking the whole world into 1 battlespace.

If you had 10 cities, which were in a line 50 moves apart and all had a 50+ move units based in their city, then they would all end up in the same battlespace.

The left 2 must be in the same battlespace, as they can interact, similarly, the 2nd and 3rd must be in the same battlespace, and so on, until all 10 are in the same space.

A possible algorithm would be something like

- All sides have a global turn order

- Each side is in 1 of 4 modes
-- Waiting
-- Locked
-- Moving
-- Finished

1) At dawn place all sides into Wait mode
2) Any waiting side which could interact with a moving side is placed in locked mode
3) Any locked side which cannot interact with a moving side is placed in waiting mode
4) If there are any waiting sides, place the global earliest of them into move mode and goto 2)
5) Wait for a moving side to end turn, place that side into finished mode and goto 2)
6) End day when all enter finished mode

This means in the 10 cities in a line case, it would go something like

At Dawn,
City 1 is placed into move mode
The causes City 2 to be locked
City 3 is placed into move mode
(and so on)
City 9 is placed into move mode
The causes City 10 to be locked

In effect, cities 1,3,5,7 and 9 would get to move at the start of their turn, since none of them can interact with each other.

When city 9 ends turn, then city 10 would be unable to interact with any moving side and would be shifted to wait mode, and then into move mode.

In effect, city 10 would get its turn after city 9 ends turn.

However, a city like city 6 would have to wait for both city 5 and city 7 to end turn before it gets to start.



There may also be "intent" involved, too.


That would certainly simplify things. It is implied that there are only 2 official states, war and allied between various sides, as your non-warlord controlled units must auto-attack all non-allied units. However, maybe there is also a peace state, which also prevents auto-attack. Alternatively, maybe you can't enter a hex which has units from a side that you are at peace with, without declaring war.

OTOH, if the world is broken up into fixed battlespaces, then you don't have to worry about any of that. You just need to add a rule for handling units passing through battlespace boundaries.

Ofc, all places we have seen so far are presumably in the same battlespace. This would mean that either Transylvito, have either left the battlespace already, or the pass was outside the GK battlespace.

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-30, 08:58 AM
A little thought: What happens to casters (and other special units) when they get decrypted? Will they stay casters/keep their special abilities? And can a unit be decrypted more than one time? If so, that would be incredible powerful.
Gk could send casters into the field and simply decrypt them if they croak. Use the masterclass foolamancer to veil troops, or send the dirtamancer with a lot of golems and some uncroaking and veiling spells to the front. And if it doesn't work, get the body with a strike force of dwagons. They could try to get an otherwise "useless" caster for fighting at the front.

kunsttyv
2009-04-30, 09:03 AM
That could very easily end up linking the whole world into 1 battlespace.


And why is there any problem with that?

I would guess that time passes relative to observed events in this universe. The day that started with Charlie appearing in Gobwin Knob's airspace was the day as observed from Gobwin Knob. The archons had probably spent time (as observed by Charlie) getting there, but that time was not observed by GK.

Turns by sides not observed by your side use no obserable time from your side.

(still as it is in turn based computer games)

raphfrk
2009-04-30, 09:11 AM
And why is there any problem with that?

I would guess that time passes relative to observed events in this universe. The day that started with Charlie appearing in Gobwin Knob's airspace was the day as observed from Gobwin Knob. The archons had probably spent time (as observed by Charlie) getting there, but that time was not observed by GK.

Turns by sides not observed by your side use no obserable time from your side.


Nice, in effect 'battlespace' is actually relative to each side rather than absolute. It means all sides that can interact with you this turn.

Time freezes for each side unless they can observe enemy movements. Ofc. this could cause problems with sides who have lookamancers, as they can potentially see a much wide area. They probably have a range inside which they can observe everything, but outside, they have to direct their attention.

In any case, GK doesn't have a lookamancer anymore.

SteveD
2009-04-30, 09:45 AM
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...

joosy
2009-04-30, 10:15 AM
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...

yes. Check the pages regarding the Transylvito group and Jillian again or have someone read them to you.


Hmm.. I wonder if the pliers have an "Encrypt" ability. muahahahahaha :smallsmile:

raphfrk
2009-04-30, 10:39 AM
[QUOTE=joosy;6053144
Hmm.. I wonder if the pliers have an "Encrypt" ability. muahahahahaha :smallsmile:[/QUOTE]

For an even more game breaking effect, would that mean that she could cast "Cryptography" ("encrypt" coupled with "decrypt") and in effect flip the loyalty of a unit to Stanley's side (i.e. kill it and then uber-raise it)?

Even "Encrypt" would be pretty powerful as an instant kill spell. Ofc, that is balanced by the fact that Wanda would need to personally cast the spell and maybe it could be set to have a high 'juice' cost and/or have a high resist rate.

Another possible effect would be that it kills a unit and prevents the unit from being uncroaked, by anyone but Wanda (as it is 'encrypted'). This would help if you were fighting a croakamancer side who were using your units against you. Ofc, Wanda can probably flash kill them using the pliers anyway. (If Ansom requires touch to activate the abilty, then maybe Wanda can cast it at range/at multiple targets).

chefsotero
2009-04-30, 11:11 AM
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...

Its common knowledg now, Anson's side knows by natural thinkmancy,they told so to TV (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0151.html) (or to someone that told TV) and Jillian + Vinnie know because of that.

EDIT: ninja'd

Ikialev
2009-04-30, 11:30 AM
Wait, what happened.
I seriously don't get it. ;<

joosy
2009-04-30, 11:45 AM
Wait, what happened.
I seriously don't get it. ;<


uh. a new comic was posted?

Stanley talked to Maggie, he, Jack, and the rest are on their way back to GK. They will most likely get there this round if nothing gets in their way.

GK's turn started at dawn indicating noone was actively opposing them.
A new dragon popped -it was in the production queue apparently.

Parson wondered what GK shoud do this turn and Wanda decided that they should use the abilities of her newly Attuned Arkenpliers to create a new unit from corpses via the "DeCrypt" spell.

Ansom is now 'decrypted' and appears to be a brand new type of unit or an improvement on an old one.

We will have to wait for future comics for the questions raised today to be answered in full. Otherwise its plain speculation but hopefully EDUCATED and INTELLIGENT guesses.

Kreistor
2009-04-30, 12:38 PM
I think you are overcomplicating things. We have Word of God that there is a natural turn order.

And now we have strong implication that the order only matters when people are in "battlespace". It's not inconsistent with previous rules, it's just a new state of affairs for the comic: Gk has been Battlespace since Page 2.


That someones turn starts at dawn does most likely mean that they haven't observed anyone elses turn before them.

So time for someone else takes sero time? You instantly stop, are frozen in time while everyone else moves before and after you? That's likely, yeah.

Nah, simultaneous movement seems more likely to me.


If Charlie isn't still allied with Jetstone (and therefore share their _later_ turn), he has already had his turn.

Or, time doesn't stop except in local regions and Sides that can't (or won't) influence each other act simultaneously.

Oh, and BTW, Transylvito and Jillian also act before Stanley, so they would have had to move already. I doubt Rob has skipped that, so we'll see them quite soon. I thik that's the best evidence that time stop doesn't exist: Jillian arriving in Faq will be an event to watch.


The turn order within a battlespace is the subset of the natural turnorder where just the turn order of the participating (and observed) sides are used/observed.

Or, every time a battlespace is created, a new and local turn order is created. It's natural, but for that battlespace only. We didn't know Battlespace existed before. Prepare for an expansion on the rules. Rob's stated that he's going to clear a lot of the questions up before starting the next Act.


Non-participating sides may have had their unobserved turns in between.

Okay, here's one for you... if a Lookamancer from Charlescomm early on scryed on the battle of GK before he sent his Archons, then what would the Lookamancer see? Dead stopped time? What about a Thinkamancer mindlink? You can't Mindlink into an area where time isn't moving.


Think turnbased computer wargames.

Your suggeestion has big problems for casting. I can't agree at all that it could happen. For instance, Ansom might not have been able to contact Charlescomm to bring in the Archons.

Actually, there's one piece of evidence that tells us it can't be your way. You can't cast except on your own turn, or if attacked. How could the transylvito Thinkamancers have communicated to anyone else asking what happened in GK? First, their turn was long over since TV moved first, second it was nighttime after turn, third they were not in combat. the only resolution is that when you're not in battlespace, and you can cast all day long. Heck, your way, they couldn't have communicated to anyone, ever. Everyone else is dead stopped while you take Turn.

kreszantas
2009-04-30, 12:55 PM
Magic items can change size -- they may just be shrunken down for convenient storage. I mean, it's not like Wanda had cargo pockets in that outfit.

SteveMB I will agree with line of thinking and add that look at Wanda's outfit closely in panels 7 & 11 where the red flairs or markings or tattoo's whatever want to call it form to make an upside down handle from the pliers, where the actual decrypt takes place her hand and the VFX getting the way of that part of the outfit to 'make it appear' that they are selective in appearance. A caster with her level of ability should be able to do something similar to what Stanley did with the eyebook.

joosy
2009-04-30, 01:21 PM
Actually, there's one piece of evidence that tells us it can't be your way. You can't cast except on your own turn, or if attacked. How could the transylvito Thinkamancers have communicated to anyone else asking what happened in GK? First, their turn was long over since TV moved first, second it was nighttime after turn, third they were not in combat. the only resolution is that when you're not in battlespace, and you can cast all day long. Heck, your way, they couldn't have communicated to anyone, ever. Everyone else is dead stopped while you take Turn.

It's already been established that you can cast communication only Thinkamancy spells no matter when. The only limitation is the amount of 'juice' your caster has or Thinkamancy scrolls you have onhand.

I agree with you on your disagreeing about the 'freezing time' or non-observed turns.

I think we are overthinking Battlespace. I don't believe it can be a physical limitation based on what we have seen here. It is just a way to describe and control the actions (explicitly turn order) of factions in active opposition to each other.

I WOULD like to see how Turnamancy affects battlespace. Assuming it affects Turn order or number of turns.. that would be trippy.

joosy
2009-04-30, 01:30 PM
I think we are way overthinking the 'Case of the Missing Arkenpliers'. Just because the pliers aren't in her hand or not 'visible' doesn't mean they are 'gone'.

Its a drawing; not an actual photograph. Jamie probably just wanted to draw Wanda's hips and got tired of drawing pliers.

There were several shots of Ansom where the Pliers weren't visible but he clearly had them.

So you can't see the pliers but its okay. They are still there.
Relax take a deep breath and go watch X-Men and come back in a week for the next installment of the battle of Gobwin Knob!

Kilkrazy
2009-04-30, 02:36 PM
If you look at a game like Advance Wars, the enemy's (or other players') turns only matter when they are within range and can interact with your units. If you play the game on "Fog Of War" and no animation of enemy unit movement, their turn will be over in an instant unless they move into range of one of your units.

Of course when human players are involved, they take time to make moves and you are aware of the time passing, but in game terms your side observes nothing before the start of its turn.

Battlespace -- if it is a genuine concept in Erfworld rather than a wargamey buzzword -- must work in a similar way.

Suicide Junkie
2009-04-30, 04:08 PM
If you look at a game like Advance Wars, the enemy's (or other players') turns only matter when they are within range and can interact with your units. If you play the game on "Fog Of War" and no animation of enemy unit movement, their turn will be over in an instant unless they move into range of one of your units.Exactly: "Dawn. And... (...wait for it...) our turn!"

Seems that everybody skips the cutscenes in Erfworld, but it still takes a fraction of a second of the non-observer's time to process the events.

multilis
2009-04-30, 05:48 PM
It is still possible that pliers deal with opposite of uncroaking (healing) and Ansom is a spirt warrior type unit.

One option is Wanda may hop on back of newly popped dragon and fly away. (Croaking and uncroaking dragon first if needed to get control)

Kreistor
2009-04-30, 06:17 PM
It's already been established that you can cast communication only Thinkamancy spells no matter when. The only limitation is the amount of 'juice' your caster has or Thinkamancy scrolls you have onhand.

I agree with you on your disagreeing about the 'freezing time' or non-observed turns.

I think we are overthinking Battlespace. I don't believe it can be a physical limitation based on what we have seen here. It is just a way to describe and control the actions (explicitly turn order) of factions in active opposition to each other.

I WOULD like to see how Turnamancy affects battlespace. Assuming it affects Turn order or number of turns.. that would be trippy.

Was this based on anyone besides Maggie? All other Thinkamancers were in cities outside of the Battlespace for this battle.

joosy
2009-04-30, 06:21 PM
It is still possible that pliers deal with opposite of uncroaking (healing) and Ansom is a spirt warrior type unit.

One option is Wanda may hop on back of newly popped dragon and fly away. (Croaking and uncroaking dragon first if needed to get control)


and it also possible that a pig could pop, grow wings and follow her.

Wanda still has loyalty and duty to Stanley. Stanley can still disband her with a word. She would need to off or incapacitate Stanley before doing this. Stanley has no heir so all GK units would go Barbarian if Stanley were killed. Wanda may survive if she switches loyalty back to Jillian but that makes no sense plotwise.

The story foreshadowing indicates that the fates of FAQ, Jillian, and the last remnants of Gobwin Knob are all entwined and will hopefully be wrapped up or at least brought closer together at the end of this chapter.

I agree with DevilDan on Wanda:


We cannot possibly guess Wanda's motivations or her next actions: her actions are grounded in a prophecy, one whose accuracy has been recently revalidated

joosy
2009-04-30, 06:50 PM
Was this based on anyone besides Maggie? All other Thinkamancers were in cities outside of the Battlespace for this battle.

Hmm.. maybe that could be a factor. I see Thinkamancy communications being sent during nighttime which is off turn for everyone. But you are right, I don't see opponents communicating via Thinkamancy off turn. My initial claim on Thinkamancy off turn turned out to be units receiving Think-a-grams - not sending.

The only exception is the Eyebooks but I don't think those count.

Zangi
2009-04-30, 07:06 PM
On the matter of croakamancy:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0128.html

Any sort of Croakamancy should stick to the same concept, even with the ArkenPlier... It is still a game after all.
And a need for some sort of balance, which does not include an 'unlimited churn X # of 0 upkeep units out that don't decay ability...'

So yea, the more you uncroak... the less powerful they are. Which means... if Wanda focuses her decrypt spell on only Ansom, he would be... more likely at his 'peak' power... and the unexpected result in this latest comic...

If Wanda decided to decrypt everyone, more then likely everyone would be simple uncroaked... but higher tier and longer lasting then normal without ArkenPlier.
The general idea? No immediate threat... So why uncroak everyone and wasting some uber potential warlords like Ansom? Especially when Wanda doesn't even know the true extent of its powers...

Thats my take on this anyways...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And the turn issue on Stanley's end: I've only seen "Fog of War" mentioned once. And the illusion spell by Jack... Which makes Stanley and crew near impossible to find... and very dangerous if they split up to look. More casualties then would be necessary to go on a wild goose hunt.
Jack is supposedly master class and bats are low level, even if they are in mass numbers. Sending warlords and archons around individually, who have only some better chance of spotting the illusion is asking to get picked off.

Its also implied that TV abandoned the idea of chasing Stanley to take the city before him. Since thats where they expect Stanley to go.

The Rizz
2009-04-30, 08:05 PM
Its also implied that TV abandoned the idea of chasing Stanley to take the city before him. Since thats where they expect Stanley to go.Actually, I think they abandoned the idea because while they know a trap killed every single RCC unit in the battlespace, it's unlikely that they would even think that GK's forces were destroyed as well. At this point, odds are they think that GK's losing battle was a ruse to get all their units close enough to trap-croak them all at once, and that GK is still standing and still heavily defended. Add Stanley + dwagons returning to GK, and they assume that a dozen warlords + bats vs. GK + defenses + uber-traps = suicide mission.

On another note, about the Decrypted Ansom; I don't think he's actually undead at all. The undead seen so far have all had gray-hued features (gray-green for uncroaked, gray-blue for vampires). ReAnsom, on the other hand, has a "living" color to his flesh, an indicator that whatever he is, it's not undead.

instare
2009-04-30, 08:36 PM
If somewhere down the line Ansom breaks out of Wanda's control because of some "power of love" thing, I'm gonna be pretty annoyed. Just saying.

Zombie Nixon
2009-04-30, 08:51 PM
If somewhere down the line Ansom breaks out of Wanda's control because of some "power of love" thing, I'm gonna be pretty annoyed. Just saying.

If he does disobey, he'll probably disband so it won't be that corny

SteveMB
2009-04-30, 08:55 PM
Its also implied that TV abandoned the idea of chasing Stanley to take the city before him. Since thats where they expect Stanley to go.

Transylvito decided to investigate the Faq story and claim the sites for themselves. As for Stanley, there was no point chasing him, but he couldn't last long as a barbarian (see Vinny's comments -- since he's booped off everybody who might otherwise hire him as a mercenary, he'd have no source of upkeep).

As for the situation after the Coalition got wiped out, my guess is that they'll scout the site of Gobwin Knob and find it ruined (with Jack veiling all GK units and any signs of rebuilding). That raises the question of whether it's possible for an Erfworld city site to be ruined to the point where it can't be rebuilt -- if so, that's what they want to look like in order to discourage any attempts by other sides to claim the site.

Pointyleaf
2009-04-30, 09:08 PM
If somewhere down the line Ansom breaks out of Wanda's control because of some "power of love" thing, I'm gonna be pretty annoyed. Just saying.

On the other hand, if he breaks off to get revenge on Charlie and to win Stanley's favor, that'd be pretty cool.

Aquillion
2009-04-30, 09:47 PM
Hey, so, um.

Decrypt Bogroll? Please?

Misty too, assuming her body hasn't vanished (it isn't clear if moving and burying her prevented that for just one turn, or forever.)

multilis
2009-04-30, 09:50 PM
"Wanda still has loyalty and duty to Stanley."

She was turned/captured somehow and captured units normally have low loyalty. She is under no loyalty spell.

We don't yet know the true backstory. Possible Wanda only was loyal to a prophesy that said Stanley was road to her pliers.

Having another dragon pop is a bit suspicious given we know chapter 2 will have narative distance from 1.

If Wanda believes that Stanley will demand the pliers, then Wanda might go barbarian and take whatever valuables she can before leaving.

On other hand perhaps in backstory Wanda made deal with Stanley that *she* would get pliers.

(We don't know his Toolship like she does.)

Goshen
2009-04-30, 10:02 PM
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...Very good point! The only way anybody but Charlie would know would be communication via thinkamancer from any of the other warlords to their side. Foxmud would be most likely, being Red's side.

valce
2009-04-30, 10:06 PM
Yeah, if Ansom 'wakes up' I'll be upset :(

Would be pretty awesome though if Wanda made Ansom pretend to 'wake up' to trick the other side, and then when he actually wakes up nobody believes him and his own side croaks him :P

Zictor
2009-04-30, 10:21 PM
Since no one got my Duncan Idaho (Dune) prediction i'm just going to say it.

Ansom will be used to fight against Jillian and Co.

Jillian and Co. will start losing

When all is about lost, Ansom breaks out of his uncroaked phase and becomes

un-uncroaked...thereby becoming regular Ansom again.

I got your reference, but I don't think they'll pull a Duncan Idaho here.
Ducan's role was too complex. Also, it was part of the Tleilaxu plan to try to make him reawaken his memories.

It seems that nobody really knows what Ansom is, or what Wanda is up to.

the_tick_rules
2009-04-30, 10:24 PM
So maybe she can ressurrect troops whole now? That'd be total cheese.

Saladman
2009-05-01, 12:45 AM
Battlespace...

<snip>

Each battle has a declared Battlespace. Each Side has a turn order, but only inside that Battlespace. Now there is no waiting for the activities on Front 1 waiting for the turns of people on Front 2.

Next up... how do you determine the size of the Battlespace?

Well, at day break, for each Side, determine what total area that could be reached. Next, determine where these areas overlap. Battlespace is wherever there is overlap. All units that can enter Battlespace are influenced by the Turn Order of that Battlespace. Units that are not capable of reaching Battlespace have normal day Turns.

<snip>

Or it might only amount to "no enemy units in hex (or moved into hex)." "Battlespace" may be a conversational rather than a technical term.

Saladman
2009-05-01, 01:12 AM
A little thought: What happens to casters (and other special units) when they get decrypted? Will they stay casters/keep their special abilities? And can a unit be decrypted more than one time? If so, that would be incredible powerful.
Gk could send casters into the field and simply decrypt them if they croak. Use the masterclass foolamancer to veil troops, or send the dirtamancer with a lot of golems and some uncroaking and veiling spells to the front. And if it doesn't work, get the body with a strike force of dwagons. They could try to get an otherwise "useless" caster for fighting at the front.

We're told regularly uncroaked casters just fight as basic infantry. But that link back to page 116 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0128.html) is suggestive where it says "the more time and attention the caster spends uncroaking the unit, the closer it will be to its original strength and abilities when it was alive." With an attuned artifact, and as it seems that each artifact has a special unit... It's possible that Wanda can decrypt casters usefully, but we don't know one way or the other. It's likely Wanda doesn't even know for sure yet. I'd bet Decrypted Ansom is at least at his full strength and abilities, and quite possibly with a template or a new "Special" of his own. We have seen a regular uncroaked archon, so even if they are an artifact unit they follow some of the same rules as regular units and I imagine they can be decrypted, possibly following the same rule for their specials as casters.

I'd guess you can only decrypt a unit once, if only because it would be game-breakingly powerful otherwise. Even artifacts have some balance in wargames.

Spot
2009-05-01, 01:27 AM
Dwagons pop! True Resurrection! So many questions answered!


I wonder...

...are Dwagons any different than say, Peeps, or Marbits, or Gobwins, or even Pikemen, in mental capacity?

Could that Dwagon that just popped work its way up through the ranks like Stanley did?

I mean... it popped into the world the same as the humanoids, so would it get treated like any other unit under Erfworld rules, or are non-humanoids like Peeps and Dwagons less intelligent under Erfworld rules?

Spot
2009-05-01, 01:28 AM
Or it might only amount to "no enemy units in hex (or moved into hex)." "Battlespace" may be a conversational rather than a technical term.

My thoughts exactly.

DevilDan
2009-05-01, 01:36 AM
I got your reference, but I don't think they'll pull a Duncan Idaho here.
Ducan's role was too complex. Also, it was part of the Tleilaxu plan to try to make him reawaken his memories.

It seems that nobody really knows what Ansom is, or what Wanda is up to.

If Ansom is Duncan, then that means that Ansom will be the real ultimate warlord (and more).

BLANDCorporatio
2009-05-01, 04:16 AM
Very good point! The only way anybody but Charlie would know would be communication via thinkamancer from any of the other warlords to their side. Foxmud would be most likely, being Red's side.

Huh? Since when do we know anything about Scarlett's side?

nikx
2009-05-01, 04:51 AM
Originally Posted by SteveD
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...


Very good point! The only way anybody but Charlie would know would be communication via thinkamancer from any of the other warlords to their side. Foxmud would be most likely, being Red's side.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0151.html

Check the second to last panel.

raphfrk
2009-05-01, 04:52 AM
If Ansom is Duncan, then that means that Ansom will be the real ultimate warlord (and more).

So, the spell has finally fixed its 'boop-up' and Parson was only a means to getting the perfect warlord? :smallsmile:

Kilkrazy
2009-05-01, 06:00 AM
It depends if a Warlord is a walking combat bonus or is supposed to create tactical and strategic plans.

Ansom clearly ha(s/d) higher leadership than Parson, and also made plans. Parson's plans were better, though.

Parson's Leadership bonus will increase with experience, assuming he can level up, which may not be possible.

Anyway, Parson can plan the strategy and Ansom can lead the actual fighting.

SteveD
2009-05-01, 06:02 AM
Originally Posted by SteveD
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

I guess Charlie must have heard about it through the Archons...



http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0151.html

Check the second to last panel.

Right, and they must know that through thinkmancer link. But can a thinkmancer tell the difference between loosing a link due to the unit croaking, or the unit switching sides?

It just struck me that if Parson spread the fact that Ansom betrayed the RCC and joined his side (and look he's still alive and working for us), that it would be a neat propaganda piece.

Should really have guessed that Ansom would be back from the panel he croaked. Too abrupt a way to go for someone the writers had spend so much time building up.

HandofShadows
2009-05-01, 06:50 AM
I suspect that the Archenpliers can create only one or two units a turn. After all your creating a "super" unit, not a plain old Uncroaked. I also suspect there is a limited number of units that can be created/controled, but that number could be as high as 30 or 40.

Goshen
2009-05-01, 07:25 AM
Originally Posted by SteveD
Here's a thought; does anyone left alive, except for Parson's side, know for certain that Ansom was killed?

Originally Posted by Goshen
Very good point! The only way anybody but Charlie would know would be communication via thinkamancer from any of the other warlords to their side.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0151.html

Check the second to last panel.

Aha! Good catch. Yes, word is definitely out.

Kreistor
2009-05-01, 08:41 AM
Or it might only amount to "no enemy units in hex (or moved into hex)." "Battlespace" may be a conversational rather than a technical term.

I don't think that's possible.

Just look at Rations. They pop at dawn on the first day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0042.html), After Charlescomm ends turn during the battle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0118.html), and again at dawn on the latest day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0157.html).

The rule, therefore, is that Rations pop at beginning of Turn. Turn start depends on whether you're in batte or not, determined by enemies in your Battlespace, and possibly by Intent of those enemies. If no enemies, your Turn starts at dawn, like everyone else in the world, taking turns simultaneously, but if you're in battle, you have a sequential order based on the Natural Turn Order.

On that first day, Bogroll already knows no one is in Battlespace, so he knows Rations pop at dawn.

fendrin
2009-05-01, 09:15 AM
I don't think that's possible.

Just look at Rations. They pop at dawn on the first day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0042.html), After Charlescomm ends turn during the battle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0118.html), and again at dawn on the latest day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0157.html).

The rule, therefore, is that Rations pop at beginning of Turn. Turn start depends on whether you're in batte or not, determined by enemies in your Battlespace, and possibly by Intent of those enemies. If no enemies, your Turn starts at dawn, like everyone else in the world, taking turns simultaneously, but if you're in battle, you have a sequential order based on the Natural Turn Order.
Or the turns of sides outside the battlespace take up no perceptible time (thinkagrams would obviously need to bring the observable flow of time into sync for the two sides temporarily). For most purposes, the two are effectively the same.

Consider though what happens when a side enters the battlespace of another side. If all the turns are simultaneous, you would have two sides in the same battlespace acting simultaneously, or you would need to have some sort of auto-turn-ending, or units 'frozen' in time waiting for their side's battlespace turn to start. All are somewhat kludgy rules.

On the other hand, if the turn sequence is preserved (but not perceived) when no one else is in your battlespace then all that would change is the perception of time, similar to the change of perception of time that let Parson know that there was another side taking a turn after Jillian, TV, and Charlie split from the coalition.


On that first day, Bogroll already knows no one is in Battlespace, so he knows Rations pop at dawn.
Or more likely he knows that no one in the battlespace has a turn before GK. It is pretty clear by that point that GK goes in the morning and RCC goes in the afternoon.

SteveMB
2009-05-01, 09:35 AM
Or the turns of sides outside the battlespace take up no perceptible time (thinkagrams would obviously need to bring the observable flow of time into sync for the two sides temporarily). For most purposes, the two are effectively the same.

Consider though what happens when a side enters the battlespace of another side. If all the turns are simultaneous, you would have two sides in the same battlespace acting simultaneously, or you would need to have some sort of auto-turn-ending, or units 'frozen' in time waiting for their side's battlespace turn to start. All are somewhat kludgy rules.

On the other hand, if the turn sequence is preserved (but not perceived) when no one else is in your battlespace then all that would change is the perception of time, similar to the change of perception of time that let Parson know that there was another side taking a turn after Jillian, TV, and Charlie split from the coalition.

That's what it looks like to me -- Charlescomm and Translyvito still take their turn before Plaid, but since they aren't doing anything that affects Plaid their turns flash by in a moment as perceived by Plaid units. This is a game-like mechanic -- turns where nothing relevant happens go by quickly compared to turns where major battles or whatever occur.

fendrin
2009-05-01, 10:08 AM
That's what it looks like to me -- Charlescomm and Translyvito still take their turn before Plaid, but since they aren't doing anything that affects Plaid their turns flash by in a moment as perceived by Plaid units. This is a game-like mechanic -- turns where nothing relevant happens go by quickly compared to turns where major battles or whatever occur.

One interesting implication is that all incoming thinkagrams from sides outside the battlespace would be clustered together just before and/or just after perceived turns.

Fjolnir
2009-05-01, 11:29 AM
I would assume just before, though it might be a weird case of "Talking is a free action" but that particular night scene seems to imply thinkagrams before turns

Happydork
2009-05-01, 11:58 AM
...As for the situation after the Coalition got wiped out, my guess is that they'll scout the site of Gobwin Knob and find it ruined (with Jack veiling all GK units and any signs of rebuilding). That raises the question of whether it's possible for an Erfworld city site to be ruined to the point where it can't be rebuilt -- if so, that's what they want to look like in order to discourage any attempts by other sides to claim the site.

If I were parson I would recommend that the veil be of GK at near full strength with only minor damage to the outer and inner walls. I would then use the dwagons to kill any scouts. The opposition will probably not send in warlords to scout if the dwagons attack in strength since the scouting warlord would die. No warlord = no way to see through the veil. The only way an intelligent side could break the veil would be to bring a large enough force in with a warlord to ensure that the valuable warlord would survive. After what happened at GK, I doubt anyone would be willing to take that risk.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-05-01, 12:27 PM
And the turn issue on Stanley's end: I've only seen "Fog of War" mentioned once.I don't recall it mentioned at all. But regardless, we know it exists. It has been shown. Check the third and sixth panels (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0062.html). The "foggy" hexes are those that the RCC has no intel on, including the center hex of the donut.

Dr.Desastro
2009-05-01, 12:39 PM
All right, lets see, what is next. So we have the Erfworld's equivalent of a Death Knight now...i wonder, if Ansom the Decrypted (or perhaps Mason?) will remember, what he was in time. Also I am keen on Transylvitos next move - they were out of the coalition, right?

SteveMB
2009-05-01, 01:15 PM
I don't recall it mentioned at all. But regardless, we know it exists. It has been shown. Check the third and sixth panels (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0062.html). The "foggy" hexes are those that the RCC has no intel on, including the center hex of the donut.

Yeah -- the words "fog of war" haven't been used in the comic, but the concept is fundamental to Parson's (v2.0) dwagon-donut plan.


If I were parson I would recommend that the veil be of GK at near full strength with only minor damage to the outer and inner walls. I would then use the dwagons to kill any scouts. The opposition will probably not send in warlords to scout if the dwagons attack in strength since the scouting warlord would die. No warlord = no way to see through the veil. The only way an intelligent side could break the veil would be to bring a large enough force in with a warlord to ensure that the valuable warlord would survive. After what happened at GK, I doubt anyone would be willing to take that risk.

The problem is that at least one potential enemy (Charlie) knows that Gobwin Knob is (at least) mostly in ruins -- he saw everything up to the end.

SOdhner
2009-05-01, 02:02 PM
The problem is that at least one potential enemy (Charlie) knows that Gobwin Knob is (at least) mostly in ruins -- he saw everything up to the end.

See, I think that plan is genius! And yes, you're right, it wouldn't fool Charlie - but he's not the type to spread information without being paid for it, and I don't think anyone is hiring him for a while.

Fjolnir
2009-05-01, 02:31 PM
He knows basically up to when the city became level 1, after that, the archons fell from the sky in burning heaps

Thydron
2009-05-01, 06:24 PM
If the decrypted units don't decompose and don't require upkeep, they are a game breaker. Stanley could fairly quickly have a massivly powerful army without upkeep. In a couple of hundred turns, they would be unstopable.

sizemore can already make crap golems with magic & i'd imagine that other types of magic can make units too (lots of people think the cloth golems are dollamancy), so i don't think it would be that game-breaking.
plus de-crypting has the disadvantage of having to get into a battle and win before being able to create the unit.

Mutant_for_Hire
2009-05-01, 07:42 PM
Imagine Jillian's reaction to seeing Ansom as Wanda's replacement playtoy.

multilis
2009-05-01, 08:06 PM
plus de-crypting has the disadvantage of having to get into a battle and win before being able to create the unit.
It also has the advantage of faster growth of the tool based units if successful.

"Game breaking"... Archons and dragons if *used right* can be game breaking, likely the same is true of results of any of the tools.

raphfrk
2009-05-01, 08:13 PM
"Game breaking"... Archons and dragons if *used right* can be game breaking, likely the same is true of results of any of the tools.

If Dragons are built purely like normal units, then their power level is determined by their cost to benefit ratio. For game breaking status, they would need to be cheap compared to standard units of an equal power level.



plus de-crypting has the disadvantage of having to get into a battle and win before being able to create the unit.

Thinking about it, it is unclear if corpses can be transported. The rule is that they disappear if their aren't moved. However, it isn't clear if it is legal to move them across zone boundaries. If it is allowed, then in principle, dead bodies could be transported back from the battlefield to the nearest city or other fortified location.

Goshen
2009-05-01, 10:51 PM
Long ago there was a discussion on how Erf-World appeared to operate at two levels. The grand strategic level where units cross and engage in an overall battle, than the up-close and personal level.

It is possible that everything which happens inside a hex is all just special effects and visual flash expressing a general outcome. I think there really are explicit rules for personal combat inside the hexes, but even they can only express so much, leaving the rest of the action as colorful detail.

What I'm leading up is that "incinerated by lava" and "buried under tons of rock" could be just be ugly details important for personal combat, but with no effect on the larger game except as a way to croak units. If so, maybe all of the croaked units in GK are accessible to Wanda! The rules might read, "Units croaked in a hex can be un-croaked the next day." Period.

Even before she had the pliers she was able to do a mass uncroak, albeit creating weak units. With the pliers and that many corpses, she could have an instant major army. Worse, she has a lot of really good material to work with. About a dozen Archons, at least several enemy warlords, not to mention GK's own fallen Knights and spidews, and lot more of the other side's equivalent heavies. :smallamused:

Guppy
2009-05-01, 11:35 PM
Thanks, Dr Pepper. I shall call him Unsom.

Unsom! That's a really clever way for us to refer to the resurrected Prince...

Spot
2009-05-01, 11:36 PM
Long ago there was a discussion on how Erf-World appeared to operate at two levels. The grand strategic level where units cross and engage in an overall battle, than the up-close and personal level.

It is possible that everything which happens inside a hex is all just special effects and visual flash expressing a general outcome. I think there really are explicit rules for personal combat inside the hexes, but even they can only express so much, leaving the rest of the action as colorful detail.

What I'm leading up is that "incinerated by lava" and "buried under tons of rock" could be just be ugly details important for personal combat, but with no effect on the larger game except as a way to croak units. If so, maybe all of the croaked units in GK are accessible to Wanda! The rules might read, "Units croaked in a hex can be un-croaked the next day." Period.

Even before she had the pliers she was able to do a mass uncroak, albeit creating weak units. With the pliers and that many corpses, she could have an instant major army. Worse, she has a lot of really good material to work with. About a dozen Archons, at least several enemy warlords, not to mention GK's own fallen Knights and spidews, and lot more of the other side's equivalent heavies. :smallamused:


The new turn has started. I think that any bodies not moved, would have dissapeared. Right?