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nargbop
2009-04-29, 08:34 AM
Let's discuss the origin of dwagons. We see in strip #144 that a dwagon pops overhead. Stanley's Arkentool allows him to control dwagons (not create, not summon).

Postulate : Dwagons pop randomly. Without someone using the Arkenhammer (or possibly any Arkentool) , the dwagons are normally roaming monsters inimical to all sides.

The other likely possibility is that Stanley (or any leader for whom Dwagons are thematically appropriate) can pop them like standard units. This is less interesting, but it does answer that Stanley controls city production easily from a distance.

Other possibilities?

Brewdude
2009-04-29, 08:44 AM
Or, the arkenhammer adds dwagon to the allowable choices to set a cities production to....

Opal Tide
2009-04-29, 08:51 AM
I'm in the camp that Dragons are just another unit in the production options. You probably need something special to unlock that option (Arkenhammer), but there is not reason to think that anyone can generate them. I would be interested to see if Stanley still has to "tame" this one before Parson can control it.

i'm just glad we finally saw what GK was building and this implies that production is a one time expense that doesn't require turn by turn payments (unless one of Sizemore's gems got consumed).

SteveMB
2009-04-29, 09:05 AM
I'm in the camp that Dragons are just another unit in the production options. You probably need something special to unlock that option (Arkenhammer), but there is not reason to think that anyone can generate them. I would be interested to see if Stanley still has to "tame" this one before Parson can control it.

Hmmm... if so, that could be part of the reason Stanley considers it so important to get home....

Kreistor
2009-04-29, 09:22 AM
Hmmm... if so, that could be part of the reason Stanley considers it so important to get home....

Unlikely. It would be attacking Parson and co. if it weren't under control.

DevilDan
2009-04-29, 10:22 AM
Maybe "taming" means that even if other cities can pop dwagons, they immediately come under Stanley's control if they get near the arkentool.

Sweetie Welf
2009-04-29, 10:55 AM
Maybe it's both; dwagons pop randomly in erfworld as natural enemies, and Stanley found out that he can tame them when he met some. And since then he can produce them in GK. Or at least since he became overlord of GK.

ObadiahtheSlim
2009-04-29, 04:45 PM
Latest comic shows that dwagons can be popped just like any other unit.

DevilDan
2009-04-29, 05:39 PM
Latest comic shows that dwagons can be popped just like any other unit.

*Clear throat, don suitable expression of shock* Really? What a startling development! It completely changes this discussion!

pclips
2009-04-29, 07:56 PM
We'll get this and other details codified and canon-ized in the wiki. Short answer: Cities have a limited menu of unit types they can produce. Gobwin Knob can pop most dwagon types, but couldn't produce, say, a gwiffon.

Many types of units also pop randomly in the wild as barbarians, and that's complicated. We did not see it happen in Book 1 at all, and it is fairly rare (can you imagine the cries of "deus ex machina" if we had seen it happen?)

Warlords can pop randomly in the wild, even more rarely. This is why Ansom would not necessarily think Jillian was a Royal, as randomly-popped barbarians are way more common than heirs and rulers who lost their capitals.

Natural allies pop more of their kind via moneymancy, converting Schmuckers directly to units. This is why they typically ally with a strong side that can pay them for their alliance, and/or they mine and farm and hunt and do various other money-making things in the wild.

Part of the fun in Book 1 has been revealing many of the facts of the world as Parson learned them, or as they served the story. But for Book 2, we'll have a more comprehensive world knowledgebase for readers to draw on. So it's time we can definitively answer some of these questions.

ComradeTaro
2009-04-29, 08:25 PM
Ahh, good, that actually answers a question I had - I was wondering where new sides came from. We have a 'nearly lost' Plaid tribe, and a 'lost' Croatan tribe... presumably other tribes have been lost. With weaker sides getting eliminated, there would be a rapid consolidation of Erfworld under fewer and fewer sides, and that didn't seem to be happening.

Presumably that consolidation doesn't happen because randomly popped barbarian Warlords assemble troops and capture a city from time to time, setting up a new side (and generating a new tribe). Considering the sheer level of destruction unleashed upon the Royal Crown Coalition, this may be an opportunity for some lucky barbarian to start a new side - one without previous hostility to Stanley.

Also, if Moneymancy allows direct conversion of Schmuckers to units, cities must need a Moneymancer to rush build... right? That's going to put a speed bump on GK's rebuilding... although I suppose they could afford to be generous to the gobwins now.

SteveMB
2009-04-29, 08:34 PM
Ahh, good, that actually answers a question I had - I was wondering where new sides came from. We have a 'nearly lost' Plaid tribe, and a 'lost' Croatan tribe... presumably other tribes have been lost. With weaker sides getting eliminated, there would be a rapid consolidation of Erfworld under fewer and fewer sides, and that didn't seem to be happening.

Actually, that's one question that has been answered: "Royal empires split off sometimes into new sides." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0088.html)

ComradeTaro
2009-04-29, 08:40 PM
Actually, I meant in the sense of 'tribes' - otherwise, after sufficient time, Erfworld would be one giant civil war. There would be many sides, but they'd all be interrelated.

Kreistor
2009-04-29, 08:44 PM
Actually, that's one question that has been answered: "Royal empires split off sometimes into new sides." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0088.html)

Obviously not the entire sotory. We already knew Jillian could go set up shop in an old city, so any other barbarian can. The presumption of some people was that only royals could become barbarians, but since barbarian warlords can pop without influence, new sides can set up pretty much anywhere there's adequate resources.

dr pepper
2009-04-29, 11:55 PM
Makes sense. A random warlord comes upon a random tribe of gobwins. With leadership bonus and numbers combined, they rout some other tribes and eventually find a spot that either has an empty city, which they take possesion of, or a weak city that they take over, or a buildable site where they create a new city.

A side is born.

Saint Nil
2009-04-30, 02:13 PM
Natural allies pop more of their kind via moneymancy, converting Schmuckers directly to units. This is why they typically ally with a strong side that can pay them for their alliance, and/or they mine and farm and hunt and do various other money-making things in the wild.

.

So then, would you answer questions on a thread about what all the different types of magic do? Just asking, as magic is my favorite part of the comic.:smallsmile:

raphfrk
2009-04-30, 02:54 PM
Natural allies pop more of their kind via moneymancy, converting Schmuckers directly to units. This is why they typically ally with a strong side that can pay them for their alliance, and/or they mine and farm and hunt and do various other money-making things in the wild.


Presumably, if all the Gobwins were in range of the volcano, then they are now permanently dead?

It might be hard for Stanley to convince another group to join up with him :smallsmile:

ichthus
2009-04-30, 05:29 PM
I wonder... does Date-a-mancy affect number of units automatically spawned by a city?

Kreistor
2009-04-30, 06:03 PM
Presumably, if all the Gobwins were in range of the volcano, then they are now permanently dead?

It might be hard for Stanley to convince another group to join up with him :smallsmile:

Most people would say that he beat the odds in a major way, or at least proved that anylne that messes with him gets seriously messed up. Everyone loves a winner.

The_JJ
2009-04-30, 08:35 PM
Now, what I find intresting is the implications of naturally popping dwagons to me that is what the 'taming dwagons' means. Can recruit, yes, but also find in the wild and control. So this leaves open the possiblity that FAQ was wrecked by wild dwagons that Stanley was following and tamed after FAQ went barbarian, thus explaining Wanda's and the fool's presense in Gobwin Knob sans loyalty spells.

Eh, we all love our pet theories.

Justyn
2009-04-30, 10:51 PM
Does anyone remember that I had set up a Q&A thread last year? Would anyone be adverse to that being brought back?

gcb001
2009-04-30, 11:30 PM
We'll get this and other details codified and canon-ized in the wiki. Short answer: Cities have a limited menu of unit types they can produce. Gobwin Knob can pop most dwagon types, but couldn't produce, say, a gwiffon.

so.......GK can produce most? so which ones cant they produce?

Kreistor
2009-04-30, 11:33 PM
so.......GK can produce most? so which ones cant they produce?

I'm certain Stanley would tell you, "The ones that don't matter."

ishnar
2009-05-01, 12:01 PM
Gummy Dragons
Coco puff Dragons
Pinata Dragons

ichthus
2009-05-01, 01:18 PM
Easily-Killed-Dwagons are one of the types he decided not to nab.

Shovah
2009-05-02, 10:39 AM
I'm incredibly pleased with the explanation we got about dwagons, not least because it matched what I expected. But all of this rules-talk.. I'm dying for a crack at this game now.

Well, I shall continue to read faithfully.

T-O-E
2009-05-02, 10:55 AM
Yeah, I also want an Erfworld tabletop strategy game.

Lolindir
2009-05-02, 04:09 PM
Yeah, I also want an Erfworld tabletop strategy game.

So do I, as a lot of other people, I assume!
And I would make it interesting to my player-group by combining it with laptop-chat (eyebooks), and loads of RP!
This game would be Awesome!

It might be interesting if Stanley couldn't pop the red dwagons. That would explain why he's riding a big-strong-RED-dwagon. It's rare, and it's his!