Weapons and feats for my homebrew

[Lord Iames Osari]

Lesser Elven Warblade, exotic one-handed melee weapon
150gp; 2d4 slashing; 18-20; 6lb.

You can wield the lesser elven warblade in two hands as a martial weapon. If you have the Elven Fighting Style feat, you may use Weapon Finesse with this weapon.

Greater Elven Warblade, exotic two-handed melee weapon
500gp; 2d6 slashing; 18-20; 8lb.

If you have the Elven Fighting Style feat, you may use Weapon Finesse with this weapon.

Elven Fighting Style (Style)
You are trained in the graceful fighting techniques of the elves.
Prerequisites: BAB +8, Dex 15+, Weapon Finesse, Slashing Blades, proficiency with either or both the lesser elven warblade or the greater elven warblade.
Benefit: When wielding a lesser elven warblade or a greater elven warblade, you may apply your Dexterity bonus to attack rolls instead of your Strength bonus.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as one of his bonus feats. An elf or half-elf wishing to select this feat may do so when they attain a BAB of +4 rather than +8.

Slashing Blades (General)
You can wield scimitars with fluid grace.
Prerequisite: Str 13+, Dex 13+, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (scimitar).
Benefit: You treat the scimitar as a light weapon for purposes related to two-weapon fighting and the Weapon Finesse feat.
Normal: Scimitars are one-handed weapons.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as one of his bonus feats.

Edit - Prices.

[Fax Celestis]

...why don't you just use the elven weapons out of the Races book?

[Lord Iames Osari]

...why don't you just use the elven weapons out of the Races book?

Because I don't have the races book. What should these cost, do you think?

[UnrealTiger]

Well that Lesser Elven Warblade should cost at least as much as a Falchion seeing as it entirely duplicates the effect of that weapon but you can use it with one hand (albeit at the cost of a feat).

The Greater Elven Warblade should cost a whole lot more than a Falchion, it basically takes what a Falchion does and simply improves upon it.

Not to mention that you have the possibility of using Weapon Finesse on these things (a very bad idea in the case of the Two Handed one methinks)

[NullAshton]

Ooo, pretty. I want a rogue that uses a two handed sword now! :D

[Lord Iames Osari]

How do those prices look?

[Matthew]

Like more crazy Elf / Katana mixed up craziness. Is there a link to information about your Campaign World that would justify these abominations?

Seriously, though, not too terrible, though the weights are probably off and I hate Weapon Finesse being coupled with yet more weapons, but I understand that is how many of the Elven Weapons function in the other books, so the Elven Fighting Style is probably okay. You might consider comparing the prices to various Composite Long Bows, which can approach 500 GP for a Strength 18 Character and 800 GP if Masterwork(?). A Masterwork Greater Elven Warblade is only going to hit 450 GP.

The main problem I seeis that you are ramping up the power of Elves, but only those with plenty of Gold and Feats to burn. Is it necessary? Why can't an Elf be satisfied with his Long Sword +1 or whatever? As long as your campaign justifies the existence of these weapons, I don't see much of a problem with the rules that describe them, as they seem to fit what I assume is your concept [Elves are badasses and should be more like they are portrayed in the Lord of the Rings films; personally, I despise this 'alien / oriental / other' view of Elves, but it's your campaign]

[Lord Iames Osari]

Like more crazy Elf / Katana mixed up craziness. Is there a link to information about your Campaign World that would justify these abominations?

No, sorry.


Seriously, though, not too terrible, though the weights are probably off and I hate Weapon Finesse being coupled with yet more weapons, but I understand that is how many of the Elven Weapons function in the other books, so the Elven Fighting Style is probably okay. You might consider comparing the prices to various Composite Long Bows, which can approach 500 GP for a Strength 18 Character. A Masterwork Greater Elven Warblade is only going to hit 450 GP.

My whole reason for inventing Elven Fighting Style was to balance out the Finessability of the warblades. That's good thinking on the prices. I'll raise them after dinner.


The main problem I seeis that you are ramping up the power of Elves, but only those with plenty of Gold and Feats to burn. Is it necessary? Why can't an Elf be satisfied with his Long Sword +1 or whatever? As long as your campaign justifies the existence of these weapons, I don't see much of a problem with the rules that describe them, as they seem to fit what I assume is your concept [Elves are badasses and should be more like they are portrayed in the Lord of the Rings films; personally, I despise this 'alien / oriental / other' view of Elves, but it's your campaign]

I happen to like that view of the elves.

[Matthew]

I happen to like that view of the elves.


So I gathered. I think a lot of people do.

[Fax Celestis]

So I gathered. I think a lot of people do.
I'm so done with elves it's not even funny. I'm considering killing them all in my campaign. Indeed, I tried, but the players saved them.

Damn meddling kids.

[martyboy74]

The greater warblade is essentially a greatsword for elves with an improved critical threat range. If you get improved critical/keen, you have a greatsword with a 25% chance of landing a critical.

[Matthew]

I'm so done with elves it's not even funny. I'm considering killing them all in my campaign. Indeed, I tried, but the players saved them.

Damn meddling kids.

Try erasing them from existence; I haven't tried it yet, but I have heard good reports...

I once removed Elves as a PC race, which brought back some of their mystique, but the last campaign I ran featured them a PC Elf. All my NPC Elves have on average stats of 12 for every ability; the player rolled some amazing stats, so it seemed only fair to allow him to be a young [20-40 year old] Elf. It was a great campaign, but it didn't feature any special Elven blades. He was a Scout in a relatively low magic, low power campaign; he and his Long Sword +1 were perfectly happy.


The greater warblade is essentially a greatsword for elves with an improved critical threat range. If you get improved critical/keen, you have a greatsword with a 25% chance of landing a critical.

Sure, but it is also an Exotic Weapon, meaning you have to burn a precious Feat to use it at all, not to mention finding someone willing to train you. Also, it's high initial cost will probably make enchanting it more expensive? [Not familiar with those rules]. The Lesser Elven Warblade is pretty much a Bastard Sword equivalent Falchion.

I just noticed you don't indicate Critical Multiplier, I assume x 2?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the Lesser and Greater Elven War Bows [of doom?]...

[Peregrine]

Also, it's high initial cost will probably make enchanting it more expensive?
Not in the least. Even masterwork versions cost a flat 300gp over the weapon's base price. (Seems the masterwork cost is more to do with the effort than the extra materials required.)

[Matthew]

I suspected as much, but having never been interested enough to read the rules for creating magic items went with my 'intuition'... so sad; so, a mere* 2,450 GP for a Greater Elven War Blade [of Doom] +1 and 2,800 GP for a Composite Long Bow +1 [With +4 Strength Modifier]...

*By 3.x standards, of course.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Yes, the multiplier is x2.

Increasing the prices.

There is no need for lesser and greater elven warbows (of doom). That's what composite bows are for.

[Matthew]

Really? I would have thought that there was no need for a Lesser or Greater Elven War Blade, but it appears that there is a demand for such things; so, in that spirit:


Lesser Elven War Bow [of Doom], Exotic Ranged Weapon

1,000 GP; 2D4 Damage; 19-20 x3; 4.5 lbs

You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a Lesser Elven War Bow while mounted. All Elven War Bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is lower than the strength rating of the Elven War Bow, you can’t effectively use it, so you take a -2 penalty on attacks with it. The default Lesser Elven War Bow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. An Elven War Bow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 1,000 gp to its cost.

For purposes of weapon proficiency and similar feats, a Lesser Elven War Bow is treated as if it were a Long Bow.


Greater Elven War Bow [of Doom], Exotic Ranged Weapon

3,333 GP; 2D6 Damage; 19-20 x3; 6 lbs

You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a Greater Elven War Bow while mounted. All Elven War Bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the Elven War Bow, you can’t effectively use it, so you take a -2 penalty on attacks with it. The default Greater Elven War Bow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. An Elven War Bow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 1,000 gp to its cost.

For purposes of weapon proficiency and similar feats, a Greater Elven War Bow is treated as if it were a Great Bow [currently non existant, but bound to exist one day] [Edit] turns out this does exist in the Complete Warrior.


Only joking, of course! Though, if you can think of some way to incorporate the 'of Doom' quality or else your Elven Fighting Style Feat, I would be further amused! (I could not)

You might want to still further up the price of your Greater Elven War Blade. The Lesser Elven War Blade is ten times the cost of a Long Sword or Scimitar, but the Greater Elven War Blade is only six time the cost of a Great Sword (500 GP, therefore, might be a more reasonable cost, or 350 GP, if you're modelling it on the Bastard Sword or 750 GP, if you're modelling it on the Falchion).

Just some thoughts...

[Lord Iames Osari]

Okay, this is kind of off-topic, but why do people hate elves?

Back on-topic, I like the bows. ;D If only for their ridiculousness. And there should be a magical weapon special ability ... of Doom. Like the Munchkin card.

[Matthew]

Glad you like the Bows. Did you see my Short, Light, Long, Heavy and Great Weapons Thread?

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=homebrew;action=display;num=11551740 75

Actually I don't hate Elves; I do dislike what they seem to have become, which is the whole 'Other / Oriental' thing. I like them in The Lord of the Rings (Books, not the film so much) and I like them in Middle English Poetry, such as Sir Orfeo. Unfortunately, from my perspective, Elves have somehow become conflated with Samurai and a variety of other bizzare things that make them, to my mind, often a parody of what an Elf ought to be. Drow irritate me in particular, but its all subjective. I'm just railing against the dominant and popularised form...

[Lord Iames Osari]

Yes, I just read it.

I agree that elves and samurai don't go together. (Of course, neither do dwarves and samurai, but that's another thing entirely). However, I feel that certain other aspects of Oriental culture go well with elves.

[Matthew]

So what aspects of our perception of the 'Orient' do you think are particularly suited to Elves and why?

See, my problem with the 'Orientalisation' of Elves is that stems from two approaches:

Elves are superior to Men, therefore [for instance] they use a Katana type weapon (popularly, and in my opinion mistakenly, thought to be a superior type of sword). Yet, Men in the West don't copy that type, but Men in the East come up with it themselves.

Elves are very different to Men, but their culture appears to be Oriental, not different from Men in general, just different from the one it most closely intermixes with (in most campaigns).

What is the connection between Elves and the Orient? In my opinion, nothing. If anything, their culture ought to be very Occidental in character (unless, of course, they actually are Oriental Elves)

[Lord Iames Osari]

Well, I would say that I view the material aspects of Oriental culture as being slightly elvish. The dichotomy of the simplicity and intricacy of decoration found in much of Eastern culture, as well as the importance of natural themes, seems to jibe well with the elvish affinity for nature, which is both simple and intricate itself. Also, the long years of patient practice required to master the art of Japanese-style swordmaking goes well with the elves' long lives.
Elves are often portrayed as aloof and/or reserved, and that goes well (to a certain extent) with an Eastern flavor. They both also have a certain emphasis on grace and subtlety as opposed to the direct, forceful approach to life taken by many Occidental cultures.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

And in my campaign, the elven culture and the human culture it most often intermixes with are quite similar, sort of a blend of East and West.

Why don't we just agree to disagree?

[Matthew]

Indeed, I think we shall probably have to. As I said at the beginning of this thread, if there is a campaign explanation for things, then there's nothing to worry about.

Some explanation of my view (just by way of explanation):

The dichotomies you are expressing are, to my mind, ficticious, but popular characterisations of the differences between Occident and Orient. If you haven't read Edward Said's Orientalism, it's well worth a read. A lot of what he has to say applies equally to the Far East as to the Near East.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Said

[Edit] Also, what did you think of the weapons I proposed on the Short, Light, Long, Heavy and Great Weapons thread; does your silence speak volumes?