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Asbestos
2009-04-30, 02:05 PM
Noticed that they put up the new powers from the PHB Hero's Series 1 line in the Character Builder and Compendium. All the classes get a new at-will and some get level 6 or level 10 utilities. Anyway, was just wondering what people thought the power level of these utilities are. Some seem like they'd almost never get used (Eldritch Strike, the MC/Half-elf/Human only Warlock power) and others seem pretty darn strong (Foe to Foe)

Some examples:
The at-will knock prone fighter power.
Knockdown Assault
At-Will Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Hit: Strength modifier damage, and you knock the target prone.
Special: When charging, you can use this power in place of a melee basic attack.


The 'hey look, I'm a defender' paladin power.
Challenging Strike
At-Will Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is marked until the end of your next turn or until you move into a square not adjacent to the target.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier at 21st level.

The Warlock level 10 at-will teleport.
Etheral Sidestep
At-Will Arcane, Teleportation
Move Action Personal
Effect: You teleport 1 square.

Colmarr
2009-04-30, 10:49 PM
I'm a bit wary of melee powers that don't deal [W] damage, and Knockdown assault is a good example.

An at-will that knocks targets prone is nice (or great if you have a rogue), but if it's costing you somewhere bewteen 1d8 and 1d12 damage, that's a tradeoff that shouldn't be taken lightly.

Challenging Strike, on the other hand, strikes (no pun intended) me as fantastic. It allows a paladin to keep 2 enemies marked (as long as both are adjacent). However, there are some interpretation issues that I see immediately, such as what happens if the enemy moves away? I would rule that that doesn't count as the paladin moving and thus the enemy stays marked, but other DMs might disagree.

As for Ethereal Sidestep, I'm not sure I really understand the point of it. Escaping grabs, maybe?

Alteran
2009-04-30, 10:58 PM
There are also items that passively boost the distance of any teleportation power you use. You could probably get it up to 3 or higher without too much trouble.

RTGoodman
2009-04-30, 11:04 PM
I looked at this earlier today when I was playing around with the Character Builder, but I couldn't make a thread because of all the lag.

Basically, I like a few of them a lot, a bunch are cool but not really better than anything else, and a few are just "meh." One thing I've noticed in particular is that they seem to try to stick very close to the class role - the new Cleric at will does damage and gives allies an attack boost against the target, the Bard one does some damage and lets you move the foe around a little, and the Wizard one does even less damage (Int mod) but covers a big area and imposes a penalty (-2 attack).

The one that I see being the most powerful is the Druid's new grasping tide. To me, personally, it seems more like an encounter power than an at-will power:


Grasping Tide - Druid Attack 1
At-Will ♦ Implement, Primal
Standard Action; Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier damage. Until the end of your next turn, if the target leaves the burstís area of effect, you can use an opportunity action to make a secondary attack against it.
Increase damage to 2d6 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.
Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs. Refl ex
Hit: You knock the target prone.

II haven't paid much attention to the 4E Druid, though, so it might be on par with their other at-wills, but off the top of my head I'm not so sure.

I do, however, really like Cleric Utility 6 walk among the wounded. You move your speed, and any ally you pass gets a bonus to AC (which increases if you're bloodied). Daring shout (Fighter Utility 6) is kinda neat, too (you mark every creature in a close burst 1, and gain temporary HP equal to your Con mod + the number of creatures marked), as is the Rogue Utility 6 hidden blade (minor action, gives you CA against a target that you attack with a weapon with the off-hand property).

Colmarr
2009-04-30, 11:19 PM
the new Cleric at will does damage and gives allies an attack boost against the target

My FR cleric has two questions for you:


How is this different to Righteous Brand and/or Lance of Faith? Can you post the power?

When was this added to the builder? I created my (formally pen & paper) cleric on the builder just a few days ago and swore I only saw the normal four at-wills.

RTGoodman
2009-04-30, 11:27 PM
How is this different to Righteous Brand and/or Lance of Faith? Can you post the power?

Yeah, here it is.


Gaze of Defiance - Cleric Attack 1
With a fearless glare, you mark your foe as a target for allied attacks.
At-Will ♦ Divine, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action; Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier psychic damage, and your allies gain a +1 power bonus to attack rolls against the target until the end of your next turn. If the target attacks you before the end of your next turn, the bonus increases to +3.
Increase damage to 2d8 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.


Basically, it's like lance of faith (in that it's an implement rather than weapon power), but it targets Will (usually lower than Reflex, I think) does psychic damage and gives a lower bonus to more allies rather than a larger bonus to one. Except if the enemy attacks you, it's suddenly much better than lance of faith, since the bonus increases. So it's situational, and might be better or worse depending on how resistances/immunities/weaknesses work out for each kind (radiant vs. psychic).


When was this added to the builder? I created my (formally pen & paper) cleric on the builder just a few days ago and swore I only saw the normal four at-wills.


The Compendium and the Character Builder were both updated on, I believe the 28th. Next time you run the Builder, just make sure you update it and you should see them.

Colmarr
2009-04-30, 11:36 PM
The Compendium and the Character Builder were both updated on, I believe the 28th. Next time you run the Builder, just make sure you update it and you should see them.

Thanks for that. Unfortunately, my PC is a Str Cleric so this power doesn't thrill me. :smallfrown:

I have the April 28 update, so maybe I didn't look hard enough. Guess I'll have to go back to waiting for Divine Power :smallsmile:

RTGoodman
2009-04-30, 11:53 PM
Thanks for that. Unfortunately, my PC is a Str Cleric so this power doesn't thrill me. :smallfrown:

I have the April 28 update, so maybe I didn't look hard enough. Guess I'll have to go back to waiting for Divine Power :smallsmile:

Yeah, I thought about that afterward, since I assumed your avatar was the character in question.

Fear not, though - I think I saw some Divine Power previews coming up this month for Insider subscribers, so you might get something good from those. There was already one about domains that you might could take a look at if you haven't already, though it was in one of the Ampersand articles, I think. (I'd look it up, but Wizards.com appears to be down for maintenance right now.)

Kurald Galain
2009-05-01, 04:08 AM
An at-will that knocks targets prone is nice (or great if you have a rogue), but if it's costing you somewhere bewteen 1d8 and 1d12 damage, that's a tradeoff that shouldn't be taken lightly.

A better option would be to use Footwork Lure + Polearm Momentum. Voila, an at-will which shifts you, slides, prones and deals damage.

Burley
2009-05-01, 06:56 AM
A better option would be to use Footwork Lure + Polearm Momentum. Voila, an at-will which shifts you, slides, prones and deals damage.

Yeah. The above combo is my PC's build, this power can be supplemented with a feat, a useful weapon, and a power that does damage.

Edit: Also, is this stuff only on the character builder, or did it release on PDF as well?

Colmarr
2009-05-01, 07:41 AM
A better option would be to use Footwork Lure + Polearm Momentum. Voila, an at-will which shifts you, slides, prones and deals damage.

Assuming of course that you want to wield a polearm and are willing to spend a feat and target AC instead of Fort.

RTGoodman
2009-05-01, 10:14 AM
Edit: Also, is this stuff only on the character builder, or did it release on PDF as well?

As far as I know, they're in both the online Compendium and in the Character Builder, but that's it outside of buying the miniatures that they come with. Fortunately, it's no more random miniatures, so it's not as bad as it could be (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0413.html).

Asbestos
2009-05-01, 11:01 AM
A better option would be to use Footwork Lure + Polearm Momentum. Voila, an at-will which shifts you, slides, prones and deals damage.

Yeah, what's that, paragon? This is at level 1, doesn't target AC, and you can use it on a charge.

Edit: Oh, and if you take Dragging Flail at level 1 (and use a flail) you have an at-will that knocks people prone and slides them right off the bat.

tbarrie
2009-05-01, 12:06 PM
As for Ethereal Sidestep, I'm not sure I really understand the point of it. Escaping grabs, maybe?

It's strictly better than shifting in a bunch of small ways. Escaping grabs, as you say, buit you can also use it to move around corners, across difficult terrain, without triggering Combat Challenge and similar abilities, and even while immobilized.

TheOOB
2009-05-01, 12:22 PM
You only need line of sight to teleport somewhere, not line of effect. That means you could teleport through a window, or perhaps through a door by looking through the key hole.

Burley
2009-05-01, 02:22 PM
And, also, through the bars of the jail cell when your DM offers your characters discounted beer, then kicks you out of the bar to wander the streets. :smalltongue: