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NullAshton
2006-08-11, 12:45 PM
Thought of an idea. Combat styles for fighters, that they give up their bonus feats for. Something to give it more flavor, and something to make people want to have a level 20 fighter. Instead of getting bonus feats, you get fixed bonus feats + a few special abilities not in feats.

martyboy74
2006-08-11, 02:16 PM
If you don't have Tome of Battle yet, you may want to see what's in there.
Note: I don't have it yet either.

Roland St. Jude
2006-08-11, 02:47 PM
I like this idea as well. (I have not seen Tome of Battle yet.) But I was working with Fax_Celestis on a couple fighter styles for a Dreadnaught Fighter concept he was working on.

Chaos
2006-08-11, 03:27 PM
Thought of an idea. Combat styles for fighters, that they give up their bonus feats for. Something to give it more flavor, and something to make people want to have a level 20 fighter. Instead of getting bonus feats, you get fixed bonus feats + a few special abilities not in feats.

This is a great idea.

Maybe you could, to give it more flavor and maybe prevent "de-flavorization" by players, make those special abilities work only with certain kinds of weapons (and armor?).

For example, a "samurai style" would only work if the fighter uses two one-handed swords (though maybe not katana and wakizashi specifically), "European knight style" works only with a sword and shield and at least medium armor. Something like that.

Spakken
2006-08-11, 04:50 PM
There was an issue of Dragon that had this very idea to it. It came about when the v3.5 shift happened. The bonus feat list was cut down to aout a forth of it's glory and at any time that the fighter met the prerequisites (usually level based) he could substitute a bonus feat for a special ability. There was one specialty fighter class that involved only shields, it had some pretty cool special abilities attached.

lsfreak
2006-08-11, 07:57 PM
There is something similar in Complete Warrior, not restricted to fighters, where you can take a feat that lets you do certain things when you have certain weapons after getting a bunch of related feats (usually weapon focuses + two-weapon fighting + something else). Then you could, for example, make a trip or disarm attempt during an attack, or make an extra attack, etc. From what you said, though, it sounds like these feats would grow as the fighter leveled.

tgva8889
2006-08-11, 10:00 PM
Yeah, the weapon style feats. They are pretty specific, though.

This sounds a lot like what Tome of Battle sounds like, so you may yet be surprised to find some of your dreams coming true within the next week or two! I am looking forward to Tome of Battle, as I love playing Fighters and martial characters, and I'd like to see what combat styles bring into play.

Spakken
2006-08-11, 11:13 PM
I love playing Fighters and martial characters, and I'd like to see what combat styles bring into play.

You should see the Way of Nine Swords. I LOVE alot of what they have in there.

endoperez
2006-08-12, 07:48 AM
It sure sounds good, but there's something I don't understand. Why should fighting styles replace the Fighter's feats, instead of being feats the fighter can choose? Ranger's combat styles are feats, most if not all of the the Monk variant combat styles are modeled in feats. See: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les ... Why not Fighter's?

Matthew
2006-08-12, 09:06 AM
Fighting Styles should definitely be optional Feats. I hate the Ranger straight jacket, what was once a fairly minor advantage has become an Integral Class Feature, along with mandatory Race Hate.

amanodel
2006-08-13, 09:53 AM
What about these (rules are just like the ones with the monk styles):

The Swashbuckler

1 Dodge
2 Combat Expertise
4 Mobilty
6 Improved Feint
8 Spring Attack
10 Combat Reflexes
12 Whirlwind Attack

Prereq: Bluff 6, Int 13, Dex 13, Persuasive.

12th level bonus ability: Whenever the fighter uses feinting in combat, he receives +4 Bonus on his Bluff check.

The Knight

1 Mounted Combat
2 Power Attack
4 Ride-by Attack
6 Cleave
8 Trample
10 Spirited Charge
12 Greater Cleave

Prereq: Str 13, ride 6, handle animal 6, Animal Affinity, knowledge (nobility) 6.

12th level bonus ability: The knight receives +4 bonus on Ride checks made during combat.

The Thug

1 Imporved Unarmed Strike
2 Power Attack
4 Improved Grapple
6 Improved Initiative
8 Quick Draw
10 Improved Bull Rush
12 Improved Sunder

Pereq: Intimidate 12, str 13, knowledge (local) 6.

12th level bonus ability: The thug receives +2 on bull rush and initiative checks.

The Mauler

The mauler must choose a one or two handed (but not light) bludgeoning weapon.

1 Power Attack
2 Weapon Focus (selected one)
4 Cleave
6 Weapon Specilization (selected one)
8 Improved Sunder
10 Greater Weapon Focus (selected one)
12 Greater Weapon Specialization (selected one)

Prereq: str 15, craft (weapon) 12.

12th level bonus ability: The mauler receives further +1 on attack damage rolls made with his weapon of choice.

The Legionnaire

1 Weapon Focus (shortsword)
2 Improved Shield Bash
4 Weapon Focus (javelin)
6 Combat Expertise
8 Weapon Specialization (shortsword)
10 Weapon Specialization (javelin)
12 Quick Draw

Prereq: Endurance, craft (armor) 6, Survival 6.

12th level bonus ability: The Legionnaire receives +2 on checks to avoid being bull-rushed or ovverrun. He also receives +2 bonus on his shield AC when he's subject to a charge attack.

Matthew
2006-08-13, 10:09 AM
What's the point in the Legionary taking Improved Shield Bash if he doesn't have access to Two Weapon Fighting or Agile Shield Fighter (PHB II)? His penalties to attck will otherwise be very harsh (-4, -8), even using the Short Sword as your Off Hand Weapon...

amanodel
2006-08-13, 11:35 AM
I didn't care about the mechanics while doing this. Legionnaires used their shields for bashing enemies, So I gave them the feat. If the player wants to overcome the penalty, he can still use a standard feat to take TWF. It's not a power build contest, it's flavour. Or just don't use both the shield and sword the same round.

And I don't have any access to PHB 2 or Complete series, I only worked with the very core.
Are they available on-line somewhere? Or they are totaly not OGL at all?

Matthew
2006-08-13, 11:46 AM
I gathered that, but the problem is that the Legionary must have Dexterity 15 and Two Weapon Fighting available to make good use of Improved Shield Bash. The PHB II Feats are listed on the Wizards Site, but the specifics are not Open Game Content. Agile Shield Fighter requires Shield Specialisation and Improved Shield Bash as prerequisites. Its effect is to reduce the penalties for a Shield Bash to -2 / -2 when the Off Hand Weapon is Light and -4 / -4 when the Off Hand Weapon is not.

My intent is to help with the flavour, it is not unrelated to the mechanics.

amanodel
2006-08-13, 11:55 AM
If Complete and PHB2 isn't OGL, I probably won't use it. If the player wants to make it combat-effective, he can still use his regular feats from 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th levels.

Or just modify it with the other feats. Sure it would look good with TWF, but without Shield Spec. and Agile Shield Fight (which I don't know nothing about) it's not worth it.

But again, a 12th level char has 5 bonus feats to take such feats.

Matthew
2006-08-13, 12:01 PM
Sure, but unless he takes Two Weapon Fighting as his first Feat he's just wasting his 2nd Level Bonus Feat. More to the point, this Fighting Style is only going to be attractive to a Character with Dexterity 15 or higher.

Lord Iames Osari
2006-08-13, 01:12 PM
There was an issue of Dragon that had this very idea to it. *It came about when the v3.5 shift happened. *The bonus feat list was cut down to aout a forth of it's glory and at any time that the fighter met the prerequisites (usually level based) he could substitute a bonus feat for a special ability. *There was one specialty fighter class that involved only shields, it had some pretty cool special abilities attached.

It was issue 310, I think. Either that or 311.


There is something similar in Complete Warrior, not restricted to fighters, where you can take a feat that lets you do certain things when you have certain weapons after getting a bunch of related feats (usually weapon focuses + two-weapon fighting + something else). *Then you could, for example, make a trip or disarm attempt during an attack, or make an extra attack, etc. *From what you said, though, it sounds like these feats would grow as the fighter leveled.

Yeah, the weapon style feats. They are pretty specific, though.

Really? I thought of the tactical feats.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2006-08-13, 02:20 PM
Tome of Battle is AWESOME!!! easily the best book to come out in a looong time. I've already got a Crusader/Soulknife built.

For actual fighting styles, you may want to look into The Quintessential Fighter and it's web enhancement from Mongoose Publishing http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/d20/series.php?qsSeries=8 . It is written for 3.0, but can easily be translated into 3.5.