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View Full Version : Would-be Predictamancers: Who will Parson's next antagonist be?



MadScientistMat
2009-05-08, 08:28 PM
I've been wondering who Parson's antagonist might be in the next book. Anyone feel up for some Wild Mass Guessing? Here are some thoughts on possible antagonists, in no particular order, with arguments for and against.

1. Transylvito.

Why they'll be the antagonist - They kept most of their troops away from the fight, so they're still as powerful as ever. Vinnie has a big reason to hold a grudge, and it looks like Jillian may be on their side too.

Why they won't - This hasn't really been their fight, and aside from Vinnie, few of them have shown much interest in the Plaids or in fighting Stanley.

2. Charlie.

Why he'll be the antagonist - He has an Arkentool! Plus, Parson really humiliated him at GK.

Why he won't - Charlie's a merc. There's not much profit in revenge. Plus, with all the newfound gems at his disposal, Stanley may figure the best way to have the Arkendish on his side is to simply hire its wielder.

3. Jillian

Why she'll be the antagonist - She really, really wants to pluck out Stanley's eyeballs with a fork about now.

Why she won't - She doesn't seem to have the means to organize any sort of coalition against Stanley at the moment.

4. Stanley

Why he'll be the antagonist - Parson doesn't exactly seem comfortable being on the Plaid side. He may find a way to get out of the loyalty spell one way or another and turn against Stanley. Come to think of it, Parson does happen to know a guy who's attuned to a Thinkmancy artifact... and maybe Sizemore would also like to go along?

Why he won't - While Stanley has been inept and short tempered, it seems like he may be learning to overcome his faults. It's not really clear Stanley is leading Team Evil at all.

5. Wanda

Why she'll be the antagonist - She's easily the most powerful, disturbing, and threatening of the characters on Stanley's side. With the Pliers, she may get the idea that she doesn't need him and can establish her own side.

Why she won't - Would she really gain anything be being in Stanley's place, aside from more enemies? She may prefer being the de facto power in Gobwin Knob to being the de jur one.

6. Faq's unseen Predictamancer

Why he/she will be the antagonist - It would be an intesting twist if somebody we haven't seen was actually responsible for the death of Saline IV and the fall of Faq. And who better to play that sort of chessmaster than a caster who can see the outcome? Plus, mentioning the Predictamancer could have been setting us up for something.

Why he/she won't - We don't even know if this Predictamancer is still alive.

7. Scarlet

Why she'll be the antagonist - She's been in a lot of frames, is a quite recognizable character, and we haven't even heard her name? Surely they wouldn't put in such a character without it being a setup for something other than her getting killed off?

Why she won't - Given Erfworld's body count, the answer to the above question may well be, "Yes, they would."

8. Other members of Parson's game group

Why they'll be the antagonist - This summon spell could well give other sides ideas of their own.

Why they won't - They may actually shell out the fee for the right caster as well.

9. Someone we've never seen

Why they'll be the antagonist - Why not?

Why they won't - We have plenty of other options to chose from.

10. The booping rules!

Why they'll be the antagonist - Of all the things on this list, they're the only item that Parson has a grudge against. Parson may be feeling guilty about all the deaths at Gobwin Knob, but when the rules of Erfworld cause combat to always be no quarter asked and no quarter given, he was trapped into what he did.

Why they won't - It's hard to make good drama about a fight against abstract rules. A flesh and blood antagonist is a lot easier to portray.

slayerx
2009-05-08, 08:48 PM
11. King Stately of Jetstone
Why he'll be an antagonist - Same reasons Ansom was, the royalty thing... a matter of pride, but also a matter of revenge as he lost many troops, his chief warlord/heir, a tool of the Titans and overall suffered great humilation at the hands of a non-royal

Why he won't - he just suffered a heavy blow and without the RCC he may need time to rebuild his forces



3. Jillian

Why she'll be the antagonist - She really, really wants to pluck out Stanley's eyeballs with a fork about now.

Why she won't - She doesn't seem to have the means to organize any sort of coalition against Stanley at the moment.
Maybe at the moment... but "loosing" Ansom might be enough to convince to take back her capitol so that she can use it to take out Stanely...

BLANDCorporatio
2009-05-09, 03:30 AM
7. Scarlet

Why she'll be the antagonist - She's been in a lot of frames, is a quite recognizable character, and we haven't even heard her name? Surely they wouldn't put in such a character without it being a setup for something other than her getting killed off?

Why she won't - Given Erfworld's body count, the answer to the above question may well be, "Yes, they would."

Lol! But no, Scarlett is Parson from the future.

Ok, now back to the serious topic-


10. The booping rules!

Why they'll be the antagonist - Of all the things on this list, they're the only item that Parson has a grudge against. Parson may be feeling guilty about all the deaths at Gobwin Knob, but when the rules of Erfworld cause combat to always be no quarter asked and no quarter given, he was trapped into what he did.

Why they won't - It's hard to make good drama about a fight against abstract rules. A flesh and blood antagonist is a lot easier to portray.

There COULD be a story in there actually, although I agree with you it doesn't look like Erfworld is that story.

A while ago, back in the 1970s, there was a thriller done, "Point Blank". I've only read about it, but the antagonist, and it managed to pull this off apparently, was some corporation. Yep. The main character kept trying to extract some revenge from mooks and higher-ups but the point was nobody mattered, nobody was personally responsible, there was no Big Bad.

Mewtarthio
2009-05-09, 05:47 PM
12. No single antagonist, just a whole bunch of factions fighting each other

Why there will be no antagonist--Erfworld is a wargame created for the sole purpose of combat. Now that the forces of Gobwin Knob have apparently been destroyed and the Coalition has dissolved, everyone will go back to fighting each other.

Why there will be an antagonist--I have no idea. It's more dramatic, I guess. :smalltongue:



7. Scarlet

Why she'll be the antagonist - She's been in a lot of frames, is a quite recognizable character, and we haven't even heard her name? Surely they wouldn't put in such a character without it being a setup for something other than her getting killed off?

Why she won't - Given Erfworld's body count, the answer to the above question may well be, "Yes, they would."

Forgive my ignorance, but who's Scarlet? :smallconfused:

Cracklord
2009-05-09, 05:54 PM
Well, as I see it the next antagonist will be the rest of the world. Today, Goblin Knob. Tomorrow, the world!!?!
Failing that, Transylvito, or Charlie. The others are possible, but we don't know anything about them yet. We'll probably see them introduced next book, and see them as primary antagonists at a later stage.

Note: What is this? Scarlet is not Parson from the future. She's obviously the predictomancer, who built a time machine and used it to ensure Wanda knew she would get the Arkenpliars. This was to set up a chain of events that would ensure she would be born. Everyone knows that.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-05-09, 06:42 PM
Well, Vinnie, and Jillian all have a personal stake in this fight now, so they will be involved in some way.

Charlie will be involved mainly cause he has the dish...will he oppose them just because he lost so much, or will he remain 'neutral' and switch sides from time to time.

I am more inclined to think he'll see himself as the next 'victim' if Stanly and Parson get rolling and help to organize the next coalition. He seems the logical choice if one wants a central tactical command center that can coordinate multiple forces in various engagments.

They'll soon learn, no pitched battles against the main force, don't defend till the last unless you can assure victory. Unless more than one turn's move separates a battle from Wanda, no mass fighting...leave no corpse to strengthen them.

Best way to do this, several small hit and run raids all over along the outskirts of the army. Wanda can't be everywhere at once, they will either have to kep their army all bunched up, or just absorb losses. In battles like that, he with the most production output wins. 10 sides producing 1 unit a turn in each of 30 cities between them will produce more than GK by itself that can only decrypt what it kills 'IF' Wanda is close enough...unless Parson forces a massive pitched battle with Wanda in range, he'll need to capture more production centers to keep the advantage he has now gained by decrypting the dead coalition.

BLANDCorporatio
2009-05-09, 06:54 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but who's Scarlet? :smallconfused:

"Scarlet" (or "Scarlett") is the name some of us use to refer to a certain red-headed warlord from the former RCC, at least until a canonical name is provided (if it ever will be). She's proven to be a rather popular character, considering her lack of name-tag.

pclips
2009-05-09, 10:09 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but who's Scarlet? :smallconfused:

"Scarlet" is the Jek Tono Porkins of Erfworld. :smallwink:

Kasavin
2009-05-09, 11:19 PM
I think any Antagonist worthy of Parson (or just to make the conflict worthwhile) needs to have certain traits. The foremost of these is overwhelming superiority in the traditional Erfworld sense. Stanley's "strategies" can only go so far in handicapping him. Watching Parson do victory laps around opponents now that he has a working grasp of Erfworld strategy and two Arkentools on his side isn't as entertaining as the drama of fighting an impossible battle.

Sheer numbers has already been done. Thus, I recommend a combination of opponents. A new coalition, with Vinnie and Jillian present emerges with even more numbers to wipe out the most dangerous opponent in Erfworld. Furthermore, Charlie realizing him and his Arkentool now have a bullseye on them joins the coalition under highly favorable terms (like free magic security). Furthermore, I suspect a predictomancer, maybe the not yet seen FAQ predictomancer, possibly armed with the 4th known (unknown to readers) Arkentool which does predictomancy will join the fight. The combination of number, thinkamancy, and the ability to predict Parson's plans and battle outcomes let the new coalition pick their fights quickly decimating Parson's strategic advantages. Once again, Parson can only win by "breaking the rules."

small pumpkin m
2009-05-10, 03:37 AM
I'm currently expecting a new chapter with Stanley & co as the primary "antagonists", and Parson's gamer buddies as the "protagonists". But I'm not expecting too hard :).

MickJay
2009-05-10, 04:14 AM
Right now I'm thinking that either 2, 4 or 5 (almost equally possible).

BLANDCorporatio
2009-05-10, 04:35 AM
I'm currently expecting a new chapter with Stanley & co as the primary "antagonists", and Parson's gamer buddies as the "protagonists". But I'm not expecting too hard :).

Are you trying your hand at reverse psychology?
:smallsmile:

Samargh
2009-05-10, 05:02 AM
"Scarlet" is the Jek Tono Porkins of Erfworld. :smallwink:

Nah, don't believe this, even if it is word of god. She didn't have the build and we saw no sign of any inclination to do strafing runs.. :smalltongue:

now, bearing in mind we have been told book 2 is "removed" in some way from book 1, and that I'm also quite knurd, I'd be inclined to go out on a limb and say the next antagonist for Parson in book 2 will be...

non existant! Because Parson will not be in it.

I believe there is more than enough stuff for book 2 to be a prequel... including Stanley, Wanda, Jillian etc and the real story behind the fall of FAQ.

Which will mean we then know the full backstory and have foresight of just how badly Jillian is acting on poor info and how tragic that makes the events of book 3, which will start up from round about now.

and thats a long range prediction for you:smallwink:

T-O-E
2009-05-10, 07:00 AM
From the Erfworld site:

Book 2 takes place a lot of days/turns ahead of the end of Book 1. That's the "narrative distance" I mentioned in the GiantITP forums.

BLANDCorporatio
2009-05-10, 07:28 AM
Is it appropriate to say "yay, Bogroll!"?

Not as antagonist of course. It seems that the antagonist issue has a simple answer now ... it will be the RCC, to the extent that Book 2 will show Parson at all.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-05-11, 02:30 PM
2. Charlie.

Why he'll be the antagonist - He has an Arkentool! Plus, Parson really humiliated him at GK.

Why he won't - Charlie's a merc. There's not much profit in revenge. Plus, with all the newfound gems at his disposal, Stanley may figure the best way to have the Arkendish on his side is to simply hire its wielder.
You missed another "why he won't" - Charlie just lost a pile of archons over GK. He may not have another set of forces capable of taking the GK garrison in a single turn.
Maybe at the moment... but "loosing" Ansom might be enough to convince [Jillian] to take back her capitol so that she can use it to take out Stanely...I don't think so. First off, she has on more than one occasion stated that she is not interested in being a leader of anything bigger than her merc band. Second, TV is going to take the FAQ cities and will drink Jillian's blood if she gets in their way.

Jair Barik
2009-06-07, 09:11 AM
I assume by Scarlet you are referring to this person here with the red hair
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0055.html

Seen in the caldera of the volcano shortly before its eruption here
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0145.html

I think that there's a decent chance of an evil vizier style predictamancer as a major villain. Looks like the two we've been introduced to so far are different but its an interesting sub plot.

We know that Jack and Wanda were both taken from Faq (possibly Misty too) but the predictamancer's fate is unkown. Stanley didn't capture it but may have killed it. The more interesting possibiity is that predictamancer is the same in both cases (veil perhaps) and set Wanda up to get Stanley involved. Doesn't tell anyone Stanley's coming (thus no hope of a veil/retreat) and leaves to become barbarian and fulfill own plans.

Taken a step further we know that the king of Faq wasn't too happy with Jillian as heir. in a kingdom with little need to spend on military wouldn't they have enough resources to say promote a trusted and noble advisor to the same position as Stanley? Its far out but I think possible that an evil advisor may be a probable next villain who has perhaps even rebuilt Faq without the rest of Erfworld knowing

strange_person
2009-10-13, 10:44 AM
I assume by Scarlet you are referring to this person here with the red hair
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0055.html

Seen in the caldera of the volcano shortly before its eruption here
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0145.html

Not to mention during the actual eruption here
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0150.html

MReav
2009-10-13, 12:16 PM
Another option:

Parson's friends.

Someone tries to use a similar spell to what was used to summon Parson, to summon those who can defeat Parson. Deus Ex Machina aside, who else has a chance save for the people who know him best?

General Valter
2009-10-16, 11:00 PM
So far, the two most powerful people in the world are Stanley and Wanda. Stanley has nigh-infinite dwagon production capability, while Wanda can supplement her side with the dead from both sides.

Charlie's ArkenDish seems to be best suited for exactly what he's doing: mercenary work and information exchange. He's probably the richest person in all of Erfworld, not to mention the predictions that Parson owes him.

This makes me think that the Arkentools are the deciding factor for warfare in Erfworld. I expect that for those opposing Wanda and Stanley, the only real chance of survival is getting an Arkentool of their own. How many are there in total? Was it seven? I doubt the remaining ones will go on unknown for long.

zillion ninjas
2009-10-17, 02:46 AM
Charlie's ArkenDish seems to be best suited for exactly what he's doing: mercenary work and information exchange. He's probably the richest person in all of Erfworld, not to mention the predictions that Parson owes him.

It might be close. Sizemore thinks that GK could be the richest side now (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0155.html), with its newly unerfed *cough* gems.

In any case, a recent summer update (http://www.erfworld.com/2009/10/summer-updates-041/) suggests that Charlie is working a new angle now, trying to get Jillian's support. And trying to prove to the Royals that he isn't allied with GK - appearances can be damning. :smallamused:


How many are there in total? Was it seven? I doubt the remaining ones will go on unknown for long.

There are four known Arkentools. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0042.html) Which doesn't mean that there can't be some additional ones, but we've had no official word beyond this.

Slayn82
2009-10-19, 10:22 AM
I think the drama is growing here. Stanley's side is stronger at every moment, and Charlie is now offering information to the second coalition, the Royal alliance. Soon, Charlie shall convince them that as long Gobwin Knob has acess to the perfect warlord, they are fighting a lost war.

So, in a desperate gambit, they will find a chokepoint, a well fortified area, where they can maintain a war of atrition, and lure the main forces of the attackers. By taking advantage from the fact that Stanley's side doesnot have access anymore to a trimancer setup, and is currently scouting their region, an small group, formed only by leaders and casters, comming from a less defended side, like Faq or Charliescomm, may pass throught the GK scouts. Then the Royal side lure Stanley away, with most of the army. They probably would get croakamancers else, since units already uncroaked possibly could not be decripted. And casters employed by different kingdons would be linked to get higher effects like the volcano.

Thus, Parson, who is a garrison unit still unable to leave the city, shall be left behind, and forced to play a dangerous game. One game were his own life is at stake. He shall be the overlord, the master in a game full of

DUNGEONS AND DWAGONS!!!

(cue music theme...)

Players motivations? Well, Charlie is beggining to lose his grip over Parson, has lost some of his archons, and he can get the gloves as loot. Jillian and Vinny could be part of this as well. Maybe one of Ansom's brothers too. And some casters from Unaroyal. When everyone is in the same hex, things can go very wild, as the fighting retreat of Wanda, the Dance stand off between Stanley and the ambush party in the way to Faq showed. They would go to either capture (preferentially) or croak Parson. And would be ready to put Parson under loyallity spells too, if needed.

ninjalemur
2009-10-20, 10:41 PM
I personally think that Charlie is going to join with Parson. Charlie is a smart guy, and knows that GK is unstoppable with Parson. Charlie would not be one to pick the losing team.

Also, perhaps another Arkentool will show up. (Dirtmancy tool for Sizemore?)

Oslecamo
2009-10-21, 09:49 AM
I personally think that Charlie is going to join with Parson. Charlie is a smart guy, and knows that GK is unstoppable with Parson. Charlie would not be one to pick the losing team.

On the other hand, you cannot ally with GK so easily. It's much more probable that you can get fragged, and decrypted, becoming a puppet for the chief croackmancer of GK.

Not to mention that Wanda, Ansom, Stanley and Hamster ALL have reasons to hold a grudge against Charlie. All of them were in one way or another cheated by Charlie and would just love to get some revenge.

Charlie's just reeking of bad karma. Untill now he trived by manipulating wars to his profit, but now that his plans backfired horribly and he's lost his leverage(aka lost a big chunk of archons, and his good name was tainted), everybody else on Efworld is telling him to go f**** himself, because they simply have no reasons to trust him. Would you ally yourself with a person who ploted your demise behind the scenes? Hamster would probably get a new sword just for the satisfaction of impaling Charlie personaly if he knocked in GK's doorstepd asking for an alliance.

Unless, of course, you're a recent queen with barely any resources but a big bloodlust for revenge, allowing herself to be easily manipulated by others in order to try to acomplish her dream of geting revenge on your fallen love. Unless you're Jillian. The only important person in Efworld who would trust Charlie.




Also, perhaps another Arkentool will show up. (Dirtmancy tool for Sizemore?)

The tools seem to choose ambitious people wich will not be afraid to use their fullpower. Stanley used it's power to become an overlord, Wanda has her doll army, and Charlie started his own independant business and runs the best spy network in Efworld in his free time.

Sizemore? He's a pacifist wich seemed pretty satisfied just being the bathroom cleaner.

multilis
2009-10-21, 05:54 PM
"The tools seem to choose ambitious people wich will not be afraid to use their fullpower."

The tools seem to choose *different* sorts of people. Given a group of Stanley, Charlie, Wanda and Sizemore, one could argue that each of them somehow is unlike the other 3 in a trait. Eg Stanley is own worst enemy, dumb.

Right now the Jack and Maggie are getting more airtime than Sizemore, there are lots of choices for a tool, even Caeser would work.

Given that royals have an edge over everyone else, I suspect they are excluded by tools.

MReav
2009-10-21, 05:57 PM
The tools seem to choose ambitious people wich will not be afraid to use their fullpower. Stanley used it's power to become an overlord, Wanda has her doll army, and Charlie started his own independant business and runs the best spy network in Efworld in his free time.

Also, I get the idea that the Arkentools are linked to the Fate domain, which Dirtamancy is not.

Though his tendency to try out all magic may allow him access into the requisite fate domain.

multilis
2009-10-21, 05:59 PM
Also, I get the idea that the Arkentools are linked to the Fate domain, which Dirtamancy is not.Stanley is attuned.

ninjalemur
2009-10-21, 06:06 PM
On the other hand, you cannot ally with GK so easily. It's much more probable that you can get fragged, and decrypted, becoming a puppet for the chief croackmancer of GK.

Not to mention that Wanda, Ansom, Stanley and Hamster ALL have reasons to hold a grudge against Charlie. All of them were in one way or another cheated by Charlie and would just love to get some revenge.

Charlie's just reeking of bad karma. Untill now he trived by manipulating wars to his profit, but now that his plans backfired horribly and he's lost his leverage(aka lost a big chunk of archons, and his good name was tainted), everybody else on Efworld is telling him to go f**** himself, because they simply have no reasons to trust him. Would you ally yourself with a person who ploted your demise behind the scenes? Hamster would probably get a new sword just for the satisfaction of impaling Charlie personaly if he knocked in GK's doorstepd asking for an alliance.

Unless, of course, you're a recent queen with barely any resources but a big bloodlust for revenge, allowing herself to be easily manipulated by others in order to try to acomplish her dream of geting revenge on your fallen love. Unless you're Jillian. The only important person in Efworld who would trust Charlie.




The tools seem to choose ambitious people wich will not be afraid to use their fullpower. Stanley used it's power to become an overlord, Wanda has her doll army, and Charlie started his own independant business and runs the best spy network in Efworld in his free time.

Sizemore? He's a pacifist wich seemed pretty satisfied just being the bathroom cleaner.

I'm pretty sure that given the choice, Parson would not run Charlie through. I think Parson recognizes Charlie as one of the few intelligent people in Erfworld.

And you may be right about Sizemore, but i think a ArkenPlunger would be awesome.

multilis
2009-10-21, 10:22 PM
By Eric Wood, Investigative Journalist

Amazing development as celestials from beyond the Erfworld are invading! Rumour has it one of their zombies inflitrated Goblin Keep, ate the brains of the croakomancer and then used a spare brain and electric charge to reanimate the body to become a deadly monster called Frankenmiko!

Apparently this is part of a 9th plan to stop the magic kingdom from developing a Cryptonite bomb spell that would threaten all the universes.

To counter this new alien threat, the royal coalition and his Toolship Stanley have jointly announce a new alliance. Stanley will be promoted to honary royalty and in return will lead a team of dragons to help with the battle against Frankenmiko, and he has promoted a Lord Hamster to chief Warlord after his former chief turned to become "the Groom of Frankenmiko".

"Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember, my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future. You are interested in the unknown, the mysterious, the unexplainable. That is why you are here." - Plan 9

Slayn82
2009-10-29, 10:41 AM
I'm pretty sure that given the choice, Parson would not run Charlie through. I think Parson recognizes Charlie as one of the few intelligent people in Erfworld.


But as recently updates show, Charlie is getting more cornered, because he is probably losing a lot of profitable contracts because of the Royals fear about the new titanic mandate thing. So if the archons upkeep is menaced, theres no reason for not sending the excess in a very dangerous and desperate mission, like storming GK to capture Parson and convert him. Also, there is the security thing, and Charlie is losing the good facade, and showing his paranoia.

Jillian is going to do something secret and dangerous, and since the other bordering side is crippled, there is only GK as a viable target. Since she is a royal, she could contract those casters left from unaroyal with funds from Charlie. Vanna, the turnamancer is ALREADY in Faq, after all. So this leaves "eftichew, a Carnymancer, Bowie, a Changemancer, and Spenser, a Findamancer". Caesar maybe enters the strike party, as a Lancer...

So, i guess my prediction's likeness to happen is up.

Edit: Oh, wait, now Vinny and Jillian are sleeping together!!:smallwink:

"Thirteen turns ago, Vinny had woken up beside her and said, "Hey. I think we should go meet the neighbors."

Well, not all unexpected, but im surprised anyway.

TigerHunter
2009-10-29, 10:47 AM
After this most recent update, I'm going to have to say Charlie/Jillian by a longshot.