Whip it good!

[Nelith]

alright, I'm trying something different. I want to be a whip wielder, but be good at it.

1. Is there any way to make a whip do lethal damage and make it damage things with armor?

2. If not, is there a way to get past the armor with a whip?

3. If not, what else should I use?

I'm planning on playing a bard(with some fixes), so minimal feats is better. If needed, I can dip into fighter for extra feats, but I would lose some spellcasting.

I'm just basically trying to make use of my whip proficiency.

(any other fun bard ideas are welcome, and the fix increases spellcasting.)

[monty]

Have you considered doing it with a Duskblade? Hitting everything within 15 feet with a touch spell in one round is pretty good.

[Shades of Gray]

The exotic weapon whipdagger.

It's a dagger... on a whip. Essentially a dagger with whip reach.

[Flickerdart]

Pyrokineticist gets you a whip made of fire that you can create for free and are automatically proficient in. It deals real people damage, too, not silly whip damage.

Fire Lash (Ps)

A pyrokineticist gains the ability to fashion a 15-foot-long whip of fire from unstable ectoplasm as a move-equivalent action. She takes no damage from a fire lash she creates, and if she releases her hold, it immediately dissipates. The lash deals 1d8 points of fire damage to a target within 15 feet on a successful ranged touch attack. A pyro can take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (if she otherwise meets the prerequisites) in conjunction with the fire lash, as well as any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip. The whip remains in existence as long as the pyrokineticist holds it.

You can reflavour it to look like anything you want, too. Cat-o-nine-tails, lightning bolt (there was a web article that gave you options for all the elements) or, er, more Book of Erotic Fantasy-style fare.

[Lycanthromancer]

Or a scourge. It's a whip with shards of metal or glass embedded in it, and uses the whip proficiency. Basically, take a whip, change its damage to a d6, and eliminate its restrictions on dealing damage to armored foes, and there you go.

[Faulty]

The exotic weapon whipdagger.

It's a dagger... on a whip. Essentially a dagger with whip reach.

If you have proficiency with whips, you also have proficiency with whip-daggers. Useful to know.

[Nelith]

I'm liking the whip dagger, from what I gather it costs about 35g and weighs 5 lb, and does a d8 damage for a medium creature, the entry on it in Arms and Equipment is for a small creature.

Would Weapon Finesse still apply?(tryin' to cut down on MAD)

[Flickerdart]

Finesse applies to whips, so it'll fly.

[Faulty]

I'm liking the whip dagger, from what I gather it costs about 35g and weighs 5 lb, and does a d8 damage for a medium creature, the entry on it in Arms and Equipment is for a small creature.

Would Weapon Finesse still apply?(tryin' to cut down on MAD)

No, "Small" meant different things back in 3.0. One sec, the Whip-Dagger was updated in an edition of Dragon. Lemme see if I can find it.

[DragoonWraith]

I'm a noob, so I don't know if my suggestions would be at all useful or if it would be overpowered, but just some thoughts since I know a few things about whips.

You could try something like having whip-damage hinder your opponent. As a weapon, whips aren't particularly good, but the only real way to use one is to reduce your opponent to a quivering mass of excruciating pain. Whips hurt, a lot. In fact, in a lot of ways, they produce considerably more pain than "real" weapons do - a deep cut severs nerves and the shock can often cause your body to ignore the pain. Being whipped simply elicits extreme pain. You could have it apply some kind of damage to Dex, movement, attack rolls, maybe. In reality, it's pretty much impossible to do more than moderate cuts to bare skin, so the only real hope to using one is psychological (make them hurt more than they're willing to put up with). Not many battle-hardened opponents are going to be stopped by that...

The other advantage that whips have is that they are constantly moving (or should be), and can attack very suddenly (you need to be paying attention to see when a whip has stopped twirling and is now going for a lash), which can be distracting. It should definitely be capable of making AoO's; I don't know why it isn't. But some things you could do with this: Maybe all opponents that you threaten are distracted (great against spellcasters). Or something like getting an AoO against an opponent moving into a threatened square, and a successful AoO against such an opponent forces a Fort save or else they are forced to retreat back to the square they entered your threat range from? I have no idea if that's even desirable...

The other classic whip move, grabbing a weapon out of an opponent's hand, is probably realistically impossible, but wouldn't be a bad trick to have available. Could be like a Disarm attempt except that you pull the weapon to you.

Also, if you were to be using a normal whip in combat, you'll almost certainly either have a dagger in the off-hand, if not a dagger built into the handle of the whip itself (this is fairly common; it'd be something like a one-handed double-weapon). Because, as noted by Wizards and everyone else, whips don't generally do lethal damage, so you need something to attack with in melee or to finish things if you have succeeded in causing enough pain for the opponent that they have stopped being able to defend themselves.

Of course, adding weights or blades to the end of a whip (or making it made of fire) changes things considerably, are probably far better in real combat, and follow the rules better with less homebrew, so other posts are probably better.

[elonin]

For a silly suggestion you could add the brilliant enhancement to your whip. That would ignore armor. I'd try using intimidate with your whip.

[monty]

For a silly suggestion you could add the brilliant enhancement to your whip. That would ignore armor. I'd try using intimidate with your whip.

But it doesn't ignore natural armor, which pretty much all monsters and most humanoid enemies will have enough of by the time you can afford a +5 weapon.

[Faulty]

There should be a Lethal enhancement for weapons, which makes normal whips and saps deal lethal damage. :smalltongue:

[Keld Denar]

This has a build: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=795369&highlight=bardic+badass

that is basically Bard3/Crusader17, that duel wields whips. Combine Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic) with Aura of Chaos stance (reroll 6s and keep adding) results in the ability to throw around a TON of d6s. If duel wielding a whip sounds silly to you (it does to me) then taking it down to 1 whip is still pretty crazy powerful.

Alternatively, for more utility, disarming with a whip is pretty potent. Stack up your Inspire Courage as much as possible. Then, take someones weapon away. Since disarm is an opposed roll, having a high bonus from Inspire Courage is amazing. Hold your whip in both hands for a +4 bonus, or don't and have the option to hold the weapon in your offhand (to keep them from getting it). You don't even need Improved Disarm, since you only provoke disarming with a whip if your opponent threatens you. Make the most of that 15' reach!

[sonofzeal]

This has a build: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=795369&highlight=bardic+badass

that is basically Bard3/Crusader17, that duel wields whips. Combine Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic) with Aura of Chaos stance (reroll 6s and keep adding) results in the ability to throw around a TON of d6s. If duel wielding a whip sounds silly to you (it does to me) then taking it down to 1 whip is still pretty crazy powerful.
Using two whips together is crazy-challenging, even by fantasy martial arts standards, but the best whip-handlers can do it even in the real world. The only filmed example I know of is in the Underworld movie, and from what I remember of the commentary that dual whip scene wasn't faked. That doesn't make it a valid combat style, but it's good to know that it's at least somewhat possible.

[Nelith]

No, "Small" meant different things back in 3.0. One sec, the Whip-Dagger was updated in an edition of Dragon. Lemme see if I can find it.

ya, nevermind that... I've decided to be a halfling anyways(strongheart). The reach is still 15 I do believe. I know I'm going to make as much use of Complete Scoundrel as I can (especially the whip skill tricks and hidden weapons and such).

as for the dual-whip build, I might dip into it a little, but I'm trying to focus on casting ans support(the whip will help support and keep me alive)

[CasESenSITItiVE]

you could always dual weild a whip and another weapon (rapier?)

you could use the whip to trip and disarm, then close in with the other weapon to take advantage of their lack of threat (unarmed and prone), all from 15' away

[Chronos]

that is basically Bard3/Crusader17, that duel wields whips. Combine Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic) with Aura of Chaos stance (reroll 6s and keep adding) results in the ability to throw around a TON of d6s.I'm not sure that Aura of Chaos is worth it, there. Remember, it only lets you re-roll one die per max result, not your entire damage roll, so on average it's only increasing your damage output by 20% or so.

[Fhaolan]

Using two whips together is crazy-challenging, even by fantasy martial arts standards, but the best whip-handlers can do it even in the real world. The only filmed example I know of is in the Underworld movie, and from what I remember of the commentary that dual whip scene wasn't faked. That doesn't make it a valid combat style, but it's good to know that it's at least somewhat possible.

Yeah, I know a couple of whip experts (they do performances/demos at rodeos and the like). They can do dual whips, but they've told me their 'targets' have to be at specific locations at specific times. Basically it's a pattern of movements and while there's a bit of flexibility in it, it's not enough to make it viable outside of a demo/kata/performance. :smallcool:

[Quietus]

Wonder if you could get Whirlwind Attack, a whip, and Duskblade13....

Burn a level 1 slot for Shocking Grasp; 5d6 electricity damage on a touch attack roll to everything within 15' (or more, with size increases and the like)?

Of course, I suppose by that point you'd have Disintegrate... :smalleek:

[Faulty]

Disintegrate is a ray. You can infuse it into your melee attacks.

[Adumbration]

If you're high enough level, you can use Lash of the Sands from Sandstorm, which deals lethal damage and works even against armored opponents. It is, however, very expensive, but can also entangle enemeis.

[Heliomance]

If you have access to 3.0 books, the Lasher PrC in either Sword and Fist or Song and Silence (I forget which) is exactly what you're looking for. It turns you into Indianna Jones, complete with being able to use the whip to swing from overhead protrusions, grab stuff from a distance, etc etc.

[Jeivar]

more Book of Erotic Fantasy-style fare.

. . . is that a REAL D&D supplement? :smalleek:

[Lycanthromancer]

. . . is that a REAL D&D supplement? :smalleek:

Indeed. Indeed it is. (http://www.amazon.com/Book-Erotic-Fantasy-Gwendolyn-Kestrel/dp/1588463990/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241971758&sr=1-1)

[Triaxx]

Yes, it really is. There had been a Dominatrix PrC in the homebrew, but the forum has been slaughtered appearently.

[Prime32]

Have you considered doing it with a Duskblade? Hitting everything within 15 feet with a touch spell in one round is pretty good.
U r doin it wr0ng

Take the Flyby Attack and Great Flyby Attack feats, wield a whip and have enlarge person cast on you. As a full-round action, move your speed and atack anything that comes within 30ft at any point. :biggrin:

[Jeivar]

Indeed. Indeed it is. (http://www.amazon.com/Book-Erotic-Fantasy-Gwendolyn-Kestrel/dp/1588463990/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241971758&sr=1-1)

Ng . . . :smallconfused:

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Ng . . . :smallconfused:Actually, it's a pretty good supplement(other than a couple idiotic rules/classes and poor 'art'). It's got a lot of good information on racial cultures, rulings on things like Polymorphers getting pregnant, and a few really good/fun classes.

Just don't tell anyone but the DM why you know the likely stance of Kobolds on abortion(real issue that arose in-game once :smallredface:).