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Malacode
2009-05-10, 08:27 AM
Recently, a friend of mine decided to start up an overpowered game, one where munchkinry and rules abuse are encouraged. The only thing is: The character has to be built around a theme, the odder and less plausible the better. I mean, there's a party member who, despite having only martial classes, is the "Buffer" and "Utility Mage", and another member with over 22,500 HD of undead under his control.

I'm not after a debate over whether this is a good way to play the game or not, I just want a little help with CO as we'll be facing CR 17+ monsters. Rules in place: 9th level gestalt, any d20 sourcebook compatible with D&D 3.5 is allowed (No unrevised 3.0 without DM approval, anything not published by WotC also subject to DM approval. Unearthed Arcana again subject to DM approval, except for LA buyoff and Flaws which are OK.)
40 point-buy or 5d6 drop 2 for stats

The theme I've got going is an arcane-only mage with four or five spellcasting classes, yet (Despite all the drawbacks of such horribly gimped casting) he's the melee character and debuffer of the party.


The build so far:
Human Symbiotic Creature (Phrenic Greenbound Petal as the guest)
Level 1: Sorc1//Duskblade1
Level 2: Sorc2//Duskblade2
Level 3: Sorc3//Duskblade3, +1 LA bought off
Level 4: Sorc4//Duskblade4, pay for Polymorph Any Object to become a Beholder.
Level 5: Beholder Mage1//Duskblade5
Level 6: Ultimate Magus1//Duskblade6
Level 7: Abjurant Champion1//Suel Arcanamach1
Level 8: Abjurant Champion2//Suel Arcanamach2
Level 9: Spellsword1//Suel Arcanamach3

All +1 spellcasting PrC's advance Beholder Mage.

Benefits: No point is there a hit-die below d8, full attack bonus, incredible number of spell levels to fuel Arcane Strike (Something like 170, IIRC).

Abilities:
Str 15
Dex 18
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 12
Cha 22

Feats:
Extend Spell (Human Bonus)
Iron Will (Level 1)
Arcane Preparation (Level 3)
Knowledge Devotion (Level 6)
Combat Reflexes (Level 9)
Versatile Spellcaster (Sold Soul)
Arcane Strike (Sold Soul)
Combat Casting (Duskblade Bonus)
Weapon Finesse (Petal Bonus)
Improved Initiative (Petal Bonus)
Contemplating Dedication to an Elder Evil to gain some Vile feats.
Contemplating Pathetic: Strength x2 to replace selling of the soul.

Alternate Class Feature: Replace Sorcerer familiar with Divine Companion, which I can store spell-energy in to gain AC or healing

Important Equipment: Ring of Wizardry I, Whirling Mouthpick Whip-Dagger

The plan is this:
Five 5th level spells at CL 6 as a standard action make self-buffing really easy.
First round of combat, use the Beholder Mage's ability to cast as many spells as it has given up eye-rays to cast Shield, Scintillating Scales, Alter Self (Tren), Bite of the Wererat and Cat's Grace for +6 Shield, +5 DEX, +11 Natural, and +15 normal NA becomes Deflection. Then use the Duskblade's Quick Casting to cast Greater Luminous Armour (If this doesn't work as I'm casting it as a Beholder Mage spell, cast it at the beginning of the day instead) for another +10 Armour Bonus
AC total 32 + existing AC, which as a Beholder makes for 56 AC total. Add in 5 AC from the Divine Companion (Ultimate Magus advances -all- arcane caster levels by 1) to get AC 61.

Use the Arcane Hands class feature of Beholder Mage to get the Mouthpick Whip into the mouth of the Beholder.
With 3/day whirlwind attack, 25ft reach and Arcane Strike, a lot of damage will be dealt to anyone and everyone nearby. If only an attack action is made, Vampiric Touch and Arcane Strike damage can be dealt to one foe as part of a Trip attempt, then should they try to get up in their turn they provoke an AoO, Arcane Strike damage and all. If a foe just won't get hit, throw in a Quick Cast-ed True Strike

There's pretty much everything worth knowing. Sure, there's a lot of magical tricks available to any spellcaster (Bestow Curse followed by Phantasmal Killer comes to mind), but that's not the focus of the build.

Questions: Problems? Does the main tactic work? Any prerequisites for PrCs I missed? (Don't worry about skill based ones, I know I have them covered). Spellsword isn't really that great, it was the only other +1 spellcasting/+1BAB class available, so are there any classes which would be better than the ones I'm currently using? I'm thinking something to do with sharing spells or gaining lots of spells known would be a good idea, as long as it doesn't cost -too- many caster levels. Can this build (With the help of a few other gestalt characters) take on creatures of CR 17+?
Also, Ultimate Magus questions:
Which class should be the secondary class advanced? As "Arcane Preparation" can be applied to any one of the spellcasting classes in there (Including Beholder Mage), any one is fair game.
And
Expanded Spell Knowledge: Can it be applied to -any- spontaneous spellcasting class or does it have to be the spontaneous one the Ultimate Magus is advancing?

Riffington
2009-05-10, 09:18 AM
2 things:
1. Can you really do 5 5th level spells? Don't they have to be 1 5th, 1 4th, 1 3rd, etc?

2. So if you regenerate your central eye after putting it out (hey, you said cheesy was the goal), and then whirlwind with the whip that's in your mouth, does that mean the eye looks at everyone while you're swinging? Or do mouths not work that way?

Jack_Simth
2009-05-10, 09:34 AM
Let's see...

1) You need to be able to sacrifice the use of your Supernatural eye rays from your eye stalks to turn them into spell stalks - at the moment, you don't have the supernatural eye rays to sacrifice - which means you'll need the Assume Supernatural Ability feat in there.
2) Beholder Mage casting requires each spell be of a different level - so as a Beholder Mage 5, you could do Shield, See Invisibility, Displacement, Fire Shield, and Telekinesis, but you couldn't do five fifth level spells.
3) Polymorph Any Object can't turn someone into a given creature unless the target has at least as many hit dice as the creature desired. You're getting yourself Polymorphed at 4th level - the smallest beholder in the Monster Manual, a Gauth, has six hit dice (and only six eye rays). The standard beholder has eleven hit dice and ten eye rays.

Riffington
2009-05-10, 10:51 AM
Oh, other minor point: all your chosen prestige classes (with the exception of Beholder Mage) are an issue in Gestalt.
"Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if youíre using gestalt classes"
But you can perhaps get around this by RAW, since it doesn't say they are prohibited, only that they should be.
Also, you can only have one prestige class per level; is the Suel arcanamach adding much more than just progressing in Duskblade?

Malacode
2009-05-11, 01:52 AM
1) Good point, 1 spell of each level. That's a fix I'll have to make. If I replace Extend Spell with Heighten, then I could Heighten Bite of the Wererat to fifth, Alter Self to Fourth and Cat's grace to Third and it would work, as "Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the level of the spell that it modifies."
2) Interesting... It says you have to put the eye out, not that it has to -stay- put out... I like it!
3) I'll check with the DM on this one, but I'll put it in twice to be safe (Once for the central eye, once for the eye rays. It'll cost two feats, but it's better to be legal than cheat)
4) ^
5) "The assumed form canít have more Hit Dice than your caster level" is the only HD restriction on Polymorph. As long as I pay an NPC spellcaster of CL 11 or higher to perform the casting of PaO, it -should- work. If I've missed something, please correct me.
6) Dual-Prestige-ing is OK'ed, and (After asking about it) the dual-progression Ultimate Magus is fine if it only increases one side of the Gestalt build. So it would have to advance Beholder Mage and Sorcerer. Sual Arcanamach doesn't advance casting at all, it has it's own spell progression. It's mostly for the extended and hard to dispell self-buffs.

Jack_Simth
2009-05-11, 06:51 AM
5) "The assumed form canít have more Hit Dice than your caster level" is the only HD restriction on Polymorph. As long as I pay an NPC spellcaster of CL 11 or higher to perform the casting of PaO, it -should- work. If I've missed something, please correct me.
What you're missing is the line that starts "This spell functions like polymorph, except"; as the hit die cap is not one of the listed exceptions, it inherits that limit from Polymorph. Or at least, exactly as written, it does so. An argument could be made that the table indicates that it can transform things without hit dice into things with hit dice (pebble to human), but if you check the errata, at the top of the errata it mentions a couple of things, one of which is that "text trumps table" - and any arguments that Polymorph Any Object does not inherit that aspect from Polymorph rely on looking at the table in favor of looking at the actual text.

Malacode
2009-05-12, 05:39 PM
Yeah, but I'm not casting Polymorph any Object, I'm paying an NPC to. If he has a caster level high enough, than Beholder is fine

Jack_Simth
2009-05-12, 07:24 PM
Yeah, but I'm not casting Polymorph any Object, I'm paying an NPC to. If he has a caster level high enough, than Beholder is fine

From the SRD:
"The assumed form canít have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subjectís HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level." - pulled directly from the Polymorph spell description.

Malacode
2009-05-13, 02:03 AM
Ooh, missed the brackets. Damn... Hmm, there's gotta be a way around it.