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View Full Version : Do the Arkenpliers have a weakness



Xondoure
2009-05-12, 12:42 AM
I searched the forum and couldn't find a thread with this topic so... do the arkenpliers have a weakness and if so what do you think it is?

my theories: If wanda wasn't a croakamancer she couldn't use it to this extreme. Which means Stanley just needs some levels in whatever mancy the hammer is and the arkentools power will be about equal.
It drains her life.
It curses her in some other way.

Okay there terrible, but these are just some thoughts. What do you think?

Manga Shoggoth
2009-05-12, 09:53 AM
If wanda wasn't a croakamancer she couldn't use it to this extreme. Which means Stanley just needs some levels in whatever mancy the hammer is and the arkentools power will be about equal.

The mechanics of Erf are not those of DnD. There is no evidence that Stanley can suddenly decide to "take levels in" Croakamancy (or anything else for that matter).

Remember: Sizemore (the dirtamancer) studies several schools of magic besides his own. Wanda is an excelent general caster, but disinterested in anything outside her field.


It drains her life.
It curses her in some other way.

There is no evidence of any curses attached to the known tools. I suspect that the flaws will tend do come from the owners (in the same way that the most dangerous part of a car is the nut behind the steering wheel).

Of course I could be wrong - there isn't a great deal of information on the subject, after all.

MadScientistMat
2009-05-12, 06:39 PM
The only real weakness we've seen so far in any of the Arkentools is that they only manifest their full power in the hands of someone they have attuned to; for others, they add a little bit of extra combat ability but are far less powerful when separated from an appropriate wielder.

SteveMB
2009-05-12, 08:56 PM
I searched the forum and couldn't find a thread with this topic so... do the arkenpliers have a weakness and if so what do you think it is?

The obvious weakness is that you can't use the "decrypt" ability without corpses. The circumstances are ideal at the moment because they're up to their boop in corpses in the wake of the volcanic eruption, but in general you have to fight a battle and hold control of the battlefield afterwards. Also, to decrypt powerful units you have to croak those powerful units first.

Xondoure
2009-05-12, 09:02 PM
The obvious weakness is that you can't use the "decrypt" ability without corpses. The circumstances are ideal at the moment because they're up to their boop in corpses in the wake of the volcanic eruption, but in general you have to fight a battle and hold control of the battlefield afterwards. Also, to decrypt powerful units you have to croak those powerful units first.

The circumstances destroyed that weakness, I guess I was hoping for some strategic advantage that the RCC or whatever faction dares challenge them could use.

Smiley_
2009-05-12, 09:22 PM
The circumstances that happened did negate the percieved disadvantages, yes, but how many times do you expect these circumstances to provide themselves in such a fortunate manner? GK could not have been luckier with the distribution of corpses and attunement of the artifact.

I suspect, just as the arkenhammer probably did, the arkenpliers will lose steam and be seen not to be the "gamebreaker" that everyone thinks it is. I seem to remember people complaining quite vocally about the archons as well.

MagMagus
2009-05-12, 10:18 PM
Also keep in mind that the Pliers could be attuned only to Wanda. If this would be the case, then in game terms, it's balanced (you need a specific "heroic" unit for the Tool to work at its best).

kabbor
2009-05-13, 02:02 AM
What makes you think that the ArkenHammer is weak? The give the attuned weilder the ability to command large numbers of Dwagons, a massively powerful unit. They also allow you to create pigeons out of walnuts, although they seem to turn back into walnuts when cooked.
That is all we know of the ArkenHammer - it seems that the ability of the tool is discovered through use: would you like to bet that there are powerful uses that Stanley has not found?

fangthane
2009-05-13, 11:54 AM
I'd be very surprised if the corpses Wanda's able to decrypt (incidentally, clever little pun there Rob/Jamie, nicely done) can be uncroaked a second time despite the pliers' influence. Generally in an environment where balance is desirable (i.e. a game, or a world apparently based on a game) there are restrictions; a percentage chance of success, a percentage reclaimed from the dead, a one-time raise followed by permanent death, that sort of thing. I'm not sure which mechanism (or which other, if they've elected to go off the normal grid) will prevail here but as I say - very surprised if she gets carte blanche to decrypt all the units all the time.

If I were a Titan, I'd say the 'pliers can decrypt only slain foes and that slain friends must be uncroaked or left to be cleaned up at turn's end; but I'm not sure whether any of the decrypting she did was indicative of raising friendlies. It's unclear (from its mere existence) whether the Gobwin in p146/f2 has been decrypted, or was popped fresh this turn. Obviously if it was decrypted this isn't the right answer, but without more info that's unclear.

Bogardan_Mage
2009-05-14, 09:47 PM
The circumstances destroyed that weakness, I guess I was hoping for some strategic advantage that the RCC or whatever faction dares challenge them could use.
They didn't destroy that weakness, they temporarily removed it. Only those corpses in the hex which are sufficiently intact to be decrypted (note that Bogroll wasn't, and it stands to reason that when you're standing on an erupting volcano leaving behind an intact corpse is not going to be all that common) are decrypted, and then that's it. If Wanda wants more troops, she needs to get more corpses.

Babytarresque
2009-05-14, 11:37 PM
I'm guessing the arkenpliers also have something of a "one ring" catch to them. Yes, you can get and command large amounts of units, provided you croak them, at no cost. But if the attuned user, or the pliers are compromised or, if its possible, destroyed, bye-bye ALL decrypted units in a widespread, dramatic mass-death scene. That seems the most "balanced" counter for such an insanely powerful effect that also feels sufficiently full of plot drama.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-05-15, 10:25 PM
I searched the forum and couldn't find a thread with this topic so... do the arkenpliers have a weakness and if so what do you think it is?

Well the Arkenhammer's weakness is its "choice in friends" according to the cast list.

The Arkenpliers might be a "tool of Fate".

As for the Arkendish, it's weakness might be "isolation"???

Poil
2009-05-16, 08:21 AM
I'm guessing the arkenpliers also have something of a "one ring" catch to them. Yes, you can get and command large amounts of units, provided you croak them, at no cost. But if the attuned user, or the pliers are compromised or, if its possible, destroyed, bye-bye ALL decrypted units in a widespread, dramatic mass-death scene. That seems the most "balanced" counter for such an insanely powerful effect that also feels sufficiently full of plot drama.

That makes sense. It would probably apply to the arkenhammer and dwagons too. Lose control of the hammer and the dwagons go barbarian.

Sweetie Welf
2009-05-16, 08:50 AM
I don't think there is a weakness. It's like a +5 sword, compared to a normal sword. There isn't any disadvantage in using the better sword.
The problem was a) getting the tool and b) having the right person to attune.

ObadiahtheSlim
2009-05-19, 09:49 AM
c.) Being able to hold on to them. I suspect to see another, larger coalition together to fight Gobwin Knob from many directions. Its not like the other sides will allow a new game-breaking power to rise up on its own.

d.) Discord. I foresee internal strife in Gobwin Knob. Wanda is a known betrayer and once a betrayer, always a traitor. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Wanda had a hand in Saline's demise or some future plot against Stanley.

the_tick_rules
2009-05-21, 10:11 AM
Maybe the hammer isn't caster specific?