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TheThan
2006-07-13, 06:43 PM
The surgeon


A Surgeon is a highly skilled healer. While cleric or druid may rely on magic to treat patients, a surgeon relies on knowledge and skill to save lives.

The surgeon is for use in low magic or 0 magic campaigns.

Abilities: wisdom is the most important ability to the surgeon. Intelligence and constitution are also very important.

Weapon and armor proficiencies: Most surgeons have no use for weapons but some are pressed into military or adventuring groups. They have gained proficiency in all simple weapons and with light armor but no shields.
Starting gold. 5d4 x10
Skill points: 4+ Int x modifier x 4 at 1st level. 4+int modifier at each additional level
Skills: appraise, concentration, craft, diplomacy, knowledge (medicine), knowledge (anatomy), knowledge (nature), heal, profession, and search
Hit dice: d6

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/TheThan/surgeon2.jpg

Stunning strike
Calling upon his knowledge about anatomy the surgeon can strike with his weapon to stun his opponent monetarily.

You must declare that you are using this ability before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning strike forces a foe damaged by your attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ˝ your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next action). A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC. You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned

Patch ‘em up
This skill allows a surgeon to use the heal skill to restore lost hit points without the use of the long term option that the heal skill allows.
The surgeon must make a heal skill check in which the DC is equal to the amount of damage he is trying to heal. The skill check counts as a move equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The surgeon must have the appropriate tools to us this ability though and can use this ability a number of times equal to his wisdom modifier per day.


Hemorrhage
If a surgeon can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot and make his opponent bleed profusely. The following round after the target has been struck by a hemorrhage attack, it takes 1d8+1 points of damage each round for 1d10 rounds.
The surgeon being granted with vast knowledge of anatomy has learned to target major arteries and veins and uses this knowledge to his advantage when he fights.

A surgeon can only use a hemorrhage attack on living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to death attacks. The Surgeon must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A surgeon cannot use his hemorrhage attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.


Skill focus (heal)

The surgeon gains the skill focus (heal) feat for free at 6th level. This feat grants the healer a +3 bonus to his heal skill.

Death attack
If an Surgeon studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a death attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the death attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the Surgeon can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the Surgeon’s class level + the Surgeon’s wis modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the Surgeon. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal death attack. Once the Surgeon has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. Or he must study the target for another 3 round.
A surgeon can only use a death attack on living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to death attacks. The Surgeon must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A surgeon cannot use his death attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach

Bedside manner
The healer learns how to comfort a patient while he heals them. To this effect, he helps the patient recover faster than normal. This ability increases the chances of a character recovering by 10%. The patient now has a 20% chance of becoming stable.

Gouge
If a surgeon can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike at the eyes to cause temporary blindness.
The surgeon must be using a piercing weapon to use this ability. This attack deals +1d6 points of damage to his target and the target is considered blinded for 1d6 rounds.
A surgeon can only Gouge living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to death attacks. The Surgeon must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A surgeon cannot use his gouge attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

A blinded character cannot see. He takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.


Improved skill focus (heal)
The surgeon gains an additional +3 bonus to his heal check.

Amputation
Some injuries are too extensive to heal by conventional means. A surgeon of 9th level or higher may use the amputation ability to completely remove damage taken by a patent. This comes with some drawbacks though.
The removal of a limb causes the permanent loss of constitution. This reduces the characters total con score by the amount shown below. The character is restored to his new full Hit points. The constitution loss cannot be restored. This ability can only be used on a patient that is at 0 hp.


Skill mastery
The surgeon becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that he can use them reliably even under adverse conditions.
When making a heal or knowledge skill check, he may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.


Master healer.



Well questions? Comments? Ideas?

Fualkner Asiniti
2006-07-13, 06:53 PM
I like it, but it's not a pratical character class. You need something that gives him an edge in combat, or no one will use this. I've got it! they learn where to strike an opponent to not only do extra damage, but to induce status effects.

LordOfNarf
2006-07-13, 07:00 PM
This is an interesting coincidence, since someone posted a surgeon PrC with incredible precision damage abilities a couple of days ago

Fualkner Asiniti
2006-07-13, 07:47 PM
wow... Seriously, I didn't read that.

Ugly_Panda
2006-07-13, 07:55 PM
This class would be ok in a low magic campaign or in a campaign without clerics, but it's nearly worthless if you have either. It's a problem in D&D, healing is just too easy.

TheThan
2006-07-13, 07:57 PM
healing with magic is too easy, without magic its much harder. this class is supposed to fix that... and i didnt see the other surgeon class either.

Jerthanis
2006-07-13, 08:03 PM
*Shudder*... man this is starting to creep me out. All these Surgeon PrCs cropping up.

About a year ago now a friend of mine ran an Eberron game where the final and main villain was a Daelkur who was called "The Surgeon."

He was called the Surgeon because his specialty was in creating "new" creatures by morphing their bodies into cruel parodies of their original forms. His sadism was vast, cooking a shifter alive in a skillet after baelful polymorphing him into a fish, and his ultimate product, the Grendel, was enough to turn my stomache it was so nauseatingly horrible. (though my character succeeded on the fort save to not be nausated.) A mass of tentacles, mouths and eyes that was as much a liquid as a solid, rolling over Sharn and bubbling up from it's depths.

Seeing "The Surgeon (PEACH)" just makes me think that someone tried statting him out, and I have to remember that The Surgeon isn't canon Eberron, and no one knows about him except for the people who were in that game.

Tengu
2006-07-13, 08:14 PM
What does "self sufficient" do? It seems to miss a description.
This class lacks features - only patch'em up, bedside manner, self sufficient, amputation and skill mastery are not bland "improve your heal skill" abilities. And since its most useful skill, patch'em up, is at first level, then unless you're aiming at any of those skills it is best as a one-level dip - doubt if you want that.
It also lacks features at levels 18-20: there is absolutely no point in taking it above level 15 (or 17 if you really MUST have that +2 to heal).

Are there any limits of using patch'em up? It seems that he can use it infinite times as a move action (!), so he can for example attack and heal someone in the same round... either I'm taking something wrong or this skill is very broken. Which is worrying especially when seeing that the rest of the surgeon is really very, very weak - even in a no magic world.

Raum
2006-07-13, 08:33 PM
I have a question for you, even in a world with no magic, would you play the class as you have it laid out? I don't think I would...and I played Priests (now clerics) before they became one of the more powerful classes in the game.

Comparing them to the clerics they're replacing, you've given Surgeons a worse BAB, only one good save, taken away the ability to use most armors, and replaced spell & turning abilities with a fairly poor healing ability.

I'd recommend raising the BAB to 3/4, giving him a second good save (Reflex to go with the light armor theme), adding some interesting non-healing abilities, and changing the healing to two lines/types which both get better as he levels. For example, give him the ability to Coup de Grape as an attack action, uncanny dodge, a treat ability allowing limited combat healing (first aid), and actual surgical skill allowing better non-combat healing including things like ability damage.

Edit: Raise the hit die also...I missed that the first time through. What I'm trying to say is I'd need a reason to play the class...something that makes it better than playing a third or even fourth fighter and hoping we can simply kill the target before it kills us.

TheThan
2006-07-13, 11:40 PM
After reviewing the critique I’ve gotten on the surgeon I’ve decided to revamp the class a bit. So the top has been edited from the original and it needs critiquing again. So please tell me what you think…

edit:
I haven’t made anything for the master healer ability I'll come up with something for it later as I have other things that require my attention.

Ugly_Panda
2006-07-14, 12:00 AM
Hemorrage is too good at such a low level. Sneak attack at level four is only 7 average damage, hemorrage is about 30 damage on average if you can hold out that long. You should also state whether multiple hemorrages stack.

Patch 'em up should scale with your class level in some way. Otherwise it's too good of a dip. A move action is too quick for that kind of maneuver, maybe start it as full-round and speed it up as they gain levels.

You didn't state how much constitution the player loses. It seems kinda extreme though.

The field medic from d20 modern might help with your capstone ability.
http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/FieldMedic.php

Thray
2006-07-14, 12:04 AM
Personally I had no problem with your previous version, as an NPC class in a low magic world.

Raum
2006-07-14, 12:23 AM
The surgeon

Hemorrhage
...it take 1d8+1 points of damage each round for 1d10 rounds.
This may be a bit much at low levels. How about making it start smaller but ramp up with the Surgeon's level? This is assuming you mean 2-9 points taken each round as you have written. If you mean one additional point per round, "points" should be singular.


Bedside manner
The healer learns how to comfort a patient while he heals them. To this effect, he helps the patient recover faster than normal. This ability increases the chances of a character recovering by 10%. The patient now has a 20% chance of becoming stable.
Since a DC 15 Heal check makes the patient stable automatically, I'm not sure this is terribly useful.

How about giving the Surgeon's "Bedside Manner" a chance of removing mind affecting afflictions instead? Possibly a Heal check with the DC equalling the original save DC granting the patient a second save with a bonus...


Gouge
If a surgeon can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike at the eyes to cause temporary blindness.
The surgeon must be using a piercing weapon to use this ability. This attack deals +1d6 points of damage to his target and the target is considered blinded for 1d6 rounds.
I'm leery of this one just because of the abstraction in D&D combat. Unless using some alternative rule to allow it, targeted strikes aren't generally allowed. I'm not against it really, just wary about how it would work in play.


Amputation
Some injuries are too extensive to heal by conventional means. A surgeon of 9th level or higher may use the amputation ability to completely remove damage taken by a patent. This comes with some drawbacks though.
The removal of a limb causes the permanent loss of constitution. This reduces the characters total con score by the amount shown below. The character is restored to his new full Hit points. The constitution loss cannot be restored. This ability can only be used on a patient that is at 0 hp.
Ouch. It's a terribly drastic solution...particularly if regeneration magics aren't available. Could easily end an adventurer's career. A question also, how do you decise which limb needs amputation?


Well questions? Comments? Ideas?
A couple of ideas... A First Aid ability. A surgeon can make a Heal check to bandage wounds, treat immediate injuries, and heal small amounts of damage. The surgeon chooses how much damage to heal and makes a Heal check with a DC of the square of the damage to be healed. (DC to heal 5 damage is 25)

Comments - This gives a limited amount of combat healing while preserving the flavor of a low or no magic world.
A Surgery ability. A surgeon can heal ability damage with a successful Heal check DC 10 + the square of the ability damage to be healed. This takes an hour of uninterrupted surgery. The patient takes 1 point of damage per point of ability damage healed.

PandaNecromancer
2006-07-14, 12:46 AM
i dont think a surgeon should be able to repair damage in the thick of battle. more of an "after battle" task, if you ask me. In battle, magical healing cause its quick and easy. Out of battle, surgeon. Requires several hours, but heals hit points without use of magical spells or items.

Raum
2006-07-14, 01:01 AM
I wouldn't underestimate a trained and experienced triage doctor's ability to heal under adverse conditions. A corpsman can do wonders on the battlefield. Even limited surgery when necessary.

But part of the challenge is also to make a playable class, and if the only combat usable abilities are offensive, why not just play a fighter with the Heal skill?

PandaNecromancer
2006-07-14, 01:12 AM
Unfortunately Heal is not part of the list of class skills for Fighters. I don't see why it shouldn't be! A fighter must know how to patch themselves up to...well, fight longer!

TheThan
2006-07-14, 11:43 AM
Gouge and Hemorrhage
I was actually considering switching gouge and hemorrhage for balance sakes. Gouge was supposed to work like the sneak attack ability but I forgot to post the rules for it so treat it just like you would rouge’s sneak attack.
Hemorrhage is supposed to deal 2-9 points of damage each round for up to ten rounds. It’s not supposed to escalate in damage as the rounds pass. At 9 points per round it has a damage cap at 90-damage after ten rounds. Which is a quite a bit of damage and why I will probably switch it with gouge.

Amputation
Well you know that many people go on to live healthy and constructive lives after having an amputation. I figured that any adventurer worth his salt would compensate for the loss of a limb… They do have hooks and peg legs you know. The Surgeon is designed for a low or no magic setting so it’s far more likely that there would be a lot of disfigurements and lost limbs from combat. Since there is no easy button (Divine magic) to cure people. . I imagine it being a last ditch ability anyway.
The ability basically restores a character to full hit points at the cost of constitution.

SpiderBrigade
2006-07-14, 04:17 PM
Seems like a pretty neat class, just one little nitpick, though:

Stunning strike
Calling upon his knowledge about anatomy the surgeon can strike with his weapon to stun his opponent monetarily.

So he hits them where it realy hurts...in the pocketbook ;D

NullAshton
2006-07-14, 08:08 PM
For amputation, you should state that if the limb loss is repaired by any means(Such as a psychic ability or two, or a wish/miracle), then the constutition loss is nulled.

On hemorrhage, you forgot to specify what it is when they can't defend themselves from the attack. I'm assuming it's like sneak attack, but you should state that it would be like a sneak attack.

Death attack seems a little bit too powerful. It's like the assassins death attack, but a lot more effective since this is a base class, not a prestige class, and thus you have a lot more of those class levels. Also, this death attack can be taken at the third round of any combat, against any enemy that the surgeon is focusing on. Since an attack against an opponent could be considered focusing on them.

Gouge seems a bit powerful. All you have to do is succeed on one attack, and then they are blinded for 1d6 rounds, which is more than enough for him to get killed by a party rogue, or he can just devastate the opponent with two hemorrhage attacks per round he/she is blind. A good suggestion for that is to include a saving throw for it.

Other than that, it seems good. Bedside manner is a bit confusing, though. Can't you make a heal check to make a patient stable, with a 100% chance of succeeding if you make the DC?

adriankas
2006-08-07, 01:48 AM
I think I found yet another thread that needs moving into homebrew...