PDA

View Full Version : Erfworld 161 - tBfGK 148



RMS Oceanic
2009-05-17, 10:15 AM
In which Parson discovers the concept of angst.

Jubal_Barca
2009-05-17, 10:17 AM
Ouch. All that needs to be said.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-05-17, 10:24 AM
Heh, so that was the order that he stopped short of issuing...

on the brite side, that means while he is a 'fighter' and a 'general' at heart, he is not driven by revenge and won't in his eyes murder someone...kill in battle, fight for survival, order assasination to win war...fine...murder the 'effectively' helpless...no.

That thought should give him some measure of peace.

RMS Oceanic
2009-05-17, 10:27 AM
That thought should give him some measure of peace.

Did you see the look on his face? I think "You are a remarkable warrior" was supposed to be dripping in irony. He's just had to acknowledge his dark side: he is perfectly capable of quite a lot of stuff we don't approve of in the real world.

Gez
2009-05-17, 10:34 AM
In which Parson discovers the concept of angst.

I think he had discovered it quite earlier already. It's just that now that nothing's happening since Wanda has finished her exposition and Stanley is not back yet, he has nothing else to do but wallow in it.

And he still hasn't ordered Misty's corpse exhumed and decrypted. Tch, tch.

T-O-E
2009-05-17, 10:35 AM
I thought the comic was going to end on page 148?

This isn't the conclusion, right?

The Bookworm
2009-05-17, 10:44 AM
I'm glad he didn't backlash Maggie, even if he thought about it...

teratorn
2009-05-17, 10:44 AM
Ah, boop and now he knows.

SteveMB
2009-05-17, 10:46 AM
Did you see the look on his face? I think "You are a remarkable warrior" was supposed to be dripping in irony. He's just had to acknowledge his dark side: he is perfectly capable of quite a lot of stuff we don't approve of in the real world.

I suspect that Maggie meant it simply as a statement of fact. How Parson feels about it is another matter....

datalaughing
2009-05-17, 10:49 AM
Can't see the comic yet. No fair.

Dr.Desastro
2009-05-17, 11:04 AM
I wonder whether it is possible to decrypt a caster save decrypt a person that croaked more than a turn ago. Don't corpses vansih during the "clean-up"-phase at dayroll? Or did she get a funeral (claimed and moved a corpse) and now somewhat has the same status as a cloth golem fur?

Would like to see here back save and sound. Anybody noticed tha amount of casters in GK?

Xorbon
2009-05-17, 11:05 AM
So the command Parson was about to issue on this page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0149.html) was going to be a command for Maggie to sacrifice herself. Hmmmm... It was nice to see that confirmed.

On a side note, Sizemore seems pretty content right now.

Smiley_
2009-05-17, 11:06 AM
And he still hasn't ordered Misty's corpse exhumed and decrypted. Tch, tch.

That is, I believe, because the body disappeared at the beginning of the turn after she died. Decrypting may be powerful, but it cannot work on a nonexistent or thoroughly destroyed body (as was the case with Bogroll).

teratorn
2009-05-17, 11:10 AM
Anybody noticed that amount of casters in GK?

Not surprising, they once held 11 cities. If you take the ones from Faq there's only three remaining. It looks like popping a caster is really something that doesn't happen very often.

datalaughing
2009-05-17, 11:11 AM
That is, I believe, because the body disappeared at the beginning of the turn after she died. Decrypting may be powerful, but it cannot work on a nonexistent or thoroughly destroyed body (as was the case with Bogroll).

Bodies disappear unless they get uncroaked or moved. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html) I suspect burying counts as moving, unless they could bury her without moving her, which seems unlikely.

Inst
2009-05-17, 11:19 AM
I don't get it, exactly what did Maggie do to Misty and Jack?

Yuki Akuma
2009-05-17, 11:23 AM
I don't get it, exactly what did Maggie do to Misty and Jack?

When the link was severed, she shielded herself from the backlash, so those two took more than they would have otherwise.

If she hadn't done that, Misty might not have croaked and Jack might not have gone stark raving mad.

Faltenin
2009-05-17, 11:23 AM
And meanwhile, Sizemore rebuilds...

SatyreIkon
2009-05-17, 11:24 AM
If bodies disappear at the start of the next turn - why where there all these bodies left to Decrypt for Wanda when a new turn had started?

datalaughing
2009-05-17, 11:27 AM
GK's turn was before the RCC's turn. So the bodies of the enemies are still there until the RCC's turn. Then again, if everyone has left the battlespace and the RCC has disbanded (which seems likely), I wonder what that means for the bodies.

EDIT: Also, there was a decrypted Gobwin on the last page. So I dunno.

ringtailsage
2009-05-17, 11:42 AM
EDIT: Also, there was a decrypted Gobwin on the last page. So I dunno.
I bet that Wanda moved all the bodies around during the eruption so that even after they were croaked they still counted as "moved" because on some level there was a conscious application of force.

But one thing I do wonder is; once a unit is moved does it's disappear phase just get pushed back by one turn, or is it forever corporal after that? If number two it still might be possible for Misty to be called back from her in ground rest. I would not bet on it though. Decomposition seems to happen pretty quickly to the un-croaked, so if something is truly croaked it would happen even more quickly. Right?

Smiley_
2009-05-17, 11:51 AM
Bodies disappear unless they get uncroaked or moved. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0084.html) I suspect burying counts as moving, unless they could bury her without moving her, which seems unlikely.


[Sizemore's] Fairly convinced I'm batboop crazy now, since corpses which aren't uncroaked or moved disappear at the start of next turn. Like trash. Still, it seemed right. She deserves to rest.

When read in context, this suggests that burying does not count as moving a corpse, and that movement requires something more than just moving a body around within the same hex.

As for the corpses, it has been suggested that they would disappear at the beginning of the Collation's turn, since that was when most of the killing took place. Otherwise, uncroaking units would be far more ineffectual, since by the time GK could act again, all the corpses would be gone.

(Not counting Wanda's mass uncroaking in the city, because she was already inthe same hex, but it makes sense seeing as it would allow her to retrieve and uncroak Manpower.)

Krytha
2009-05-17, 12:01 PM
I love elfworld and dont want it to end, but hasnt this gone past the battle for goblin knob?

raphfrk
2009-05-17, 12:07 PM
The Wot rule is

"Croaked units leave bodies, which exist as physical objects for a short time after croaking. Bodies disappear at the start of the next turn that their side has, unless moved/claimed (e.g. uncroaked, reanimated as golems, eaten, used for something else like the teddybearskin rug and mounted gwiffon head in Parson's room)Erf-b1-p035. In the event that their side is eliminated, unclaimed bodies disappear at the next nightfall. "

This seems to imply that 'moved' actually means that you must do something with them. It seems that 'used' would be a better wording that 'moved', assuming that is the meaning.

datalaughing
2009-05-17, 12:09 PM
When read in context, this suggests that burying does not count as moving a corpse, and that movement requires something more than just moving a body around within the same hex.

I disagree. I think the context suggests that the corpse will not disappear. Sizemore thinks he's crazy because if they just left her alone (which I suppose it what they would normally do) she'd disappear. Instead Parson insists on moving and burying her, thus ensuring that her corpse won't disappear, which must seem very strange.

Xorbon
2009-05-17, 12:09 PM
I love elfworld and dont want it to end, but hasnt this gone past the battle for goblin knob?

I think we're in the "epilogue" part of the Gobwin Knob story. They're just tying up loose ends while setting up the next chapter.

SteveMB
2009-05-17, 12:33 PM
The Wot rule is

"Croaked units leave bodies, which exist as physical objects for a short time after croaking. Bodies disappear at the start of the next turn that their side has, unless moved/claimed (e.g. uncroaked, reanimated as golems, eaten, used for something else like the teddybearskin rug and mounted gwiffon head in Parson's room)Erf-b1-p035. In the event that their side is eliminated, unclaimed bodies disappear at the next nightfall. "

This seems to imply that 'moved' actually means that you must do something with them. It seems that 'used' would be a better wording that 'moved', assuming that is the meaning.

That would seem to imply that Misty's body would indeed survive, as being purposefully placed in a grave rather than simply allowed to vanish would seem to be a form of "claimed".

Carisbourg
2009-05-17, 12:35 PM
And he still hasn't ordered Misty's corpse exhumed and decrypted. Tch, tch.

Or Parson just might not want to out of respect.

HandofShadows
2009-05-17, 12:57 PM
Maggie is the 3rd worst monster on the mountain, Wanda is number 2, I wonder who number 1 is? :smallwink: So we see how Pason thinks of himself.

raphfrk
2009-05-17, 12:57 PM
That would seem to imply that Misty's body would indeed survive, as being purposefully placed in a grave rather than simply allowed to vanish would seem to be a form of "claimed".

The turn count is:

Turn 1
GK: Parson does the donut of death
RCC: Ansom/Jillian win the lake battle
Night: Stanley orders the link to be broken and the dwagons recalled

Turn 2
GK: Link carries out Stanleys orders, Misty dies
GK: Misty is moved and then buried
GK: Stanley leaves
RCC: Vinny + Jillian head to the pass
RCC: Wanda sets off air defenses
RCC: Vinny + Jillian switch alliance
RCC: Webinar goes into tunnels

Turn 3
TRANS: Jillian + Vinny make it to pass and are met by Caesar.
GK: Misty's corpse should depop now
GK: Stanley arrives at pass and is turned around
GK: Parson wipes out Webinar
RCC: Ansom breeches walls and makes the deal with Charlie
RCC: Ansom about to take GK
RCC: Parson deploys "uncroak volcano gambit"
RCC: Parson jumps into portal

Turn 4
GK: Parson & co return to GK

I think I may have missed a turn in the middle, but anyway. Misty was buried in turn 2. If that counts as moved, maybe that saves her body from de-popping at the start of GK's turn for turn 3. However, her body wasn't moved during turn 3, so it should depop at the start of GK's turn 4 turn.

Xondoure
2009-05-17, 01:06 PM
bwahaha... You thought you were a good guy didn't you? But deep down, we are all mindless (or in your case Extremely mindful) killers.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-05-17, 01:17 PM
We don't know that for sure. 'Moving' could be that they just need to be displaced from the place they fell once period, and not moved every turn. Then again, maybe 'move' means into another hex or zone (if zone, then she was moved from tower to courtyard.)

I could see it either way...from Sizemore's statement a body placed in such a fashion would just disappear, or maybe he thought Parson was nuts because it would just vanish if left alone and by doing that with the body it would ensure that it would stay permanently.

It would be interesting if they brought back Misty for sure...you know he may very well link them again in that case.

raphfrk
2009-05-17, 01:24 PM
It would be interesting if they brought back Misty for sure...you know he may very well link them again in that case.

It would be interesting to see how casters are obtained in the game and how they are limited. If it is pure expense, then maybe he can create even more links.

teratorn
2009-05-17, 01:26 PM
The Wot rule is

"Croaked units leave bodies, which exist as physical objects for a short time after croaking. Bodies disappear at the start of the next turn that their side has, unless moved/claimed (e.g. uncroaked, reanimated as golems, eaten, used for something else like the teddybearskin rug and mounted gwiffon head in Parson's room)Erf-b1-p035. In the event that their side is eliminated, unclaimed bodies disappear at the next nightfall. "

It must be more complicated than that. Units from your side killed during the enemy turn should also last until the enemy's turn. We've seen uncrypted gobwins. And RCC was eliminated before the night and the corpses are still there.

I'd say all sides must have "access" to those dead units during one of their own turns before Erfworld claims them. This is the first time GK had access to them during their own turn.

raphfrk
2009-05-17, 01:45 PM
I
I'd say all sides must have "access" to those dead units during one of their own turns before Erfworld claims them. This is the first time GK had access to them during their own turn.

Right, but that isn't what what the article created by the authors (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Croaking) says :).

I think that a reasonable rule would be that if they are moved during the turn of a side, then they don't de-pop until that side has completed its subsequent turn (with destroyed sides counting as taking a clean up turn even after they have been destroyed).

However, that allows a side to croak units and then do the uncroaking on their next turn. This doesn't seem to be the case, Wanda uncroaked the entire RCC tunnel force at the end of the turn they were uncroaked.

SteveMB
2009-05-17, 01:50 PM
I think I may have missed a turn in the middle, but anyway. Misty was buried in turn 2. If that counts as moved, maybe that saves her body from de-popping at the start of GK's turn for turn 3. However, her body wasn't moved during turn 3, so it should depop at the start of GK's turn 4 turn.

I doubt that the gwiffon trophy and battle bear hide in Parson's (now destroyed) quarters needed to be moved around every turn to keep them from vanishing. I'm pretty sure that once a body is "claimed" for uncroaking or whatever at the time it would normally vanish, then it becomes a permanent object.

MickJay
2009-05-17, 02:13 PM
This could lead to storing thousands upon thousands of corpses to be uncroaked as needed by necromancers - that would make it a little too convenient, even with normal limitations of necromancy (number of corpses that can be uncroaked in one turn, time before they'll decay). I'd rather expect that the corpses need to be moved every turn - which might, just might, still mean that Misty has been "moved" by the volcano's explosion :smallwink:

Xenon
2009-05-17, 02:17 PM
it seems to me that the 'ruthless' sword merely removes inhibitions. in a way, it protects him from hesitation in battle, where it could get him killed. fighting a war with it is much like driving a car while drunk, very dangerous to everyone else in the hex.

teratorn
2009-05-17, 02:22 PM
Right, but that isn't what what the article created by the authors (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Croaking) says :).

huh? are the wikis created by Rob and/or Jamie? I thought that was a community effort, independent of Rob and Jamie.

If so it's terribly wrong, RCC units didn't disappear during the night, GK units didn't disappear at the beginning of GK's turn.

Gez
2009-05-17, 02:32 PM
I think I may have missed a turn in the middle, but anyway. Misty was buried in turn 2. If that counts as moved, maybe that saves her body from de-popping at the start of GK's turn for turn 3. However, her body wasn't moved during turn 3, so it should depop at the start of GK's turn 4 turn.

It's the first time I see the assumption that uncroaking/moving has to be renewed every turn. It seems more intuitive that it's either done once and good forever, or not done at all. I don't think the trophy gwiffon head has to be re-stuffed every turn.


huh? are the wikis created by Rob and/or Jamie? I thought that was a community effort, independent of Rob and Jamie.

Wikis are known to have a wonderful, wonderful Tool of the Titans called "Arkenpagehistory (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Croaking&action=history)". Here's a link (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Croaking&oldid=662) to the page as written by Rob Balder, with no alteration by third parties.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-05-17, 02:53 PM
I love elfworld and dont want it to end

lolwut

Wrong syllable change there...

raphfrk
2009-05-17, 03:28 PM
huh? are the wikis created by Rob and/or Jamie? I thought that was a community effort, independent of Rob and Jamie.


Yeah, but that article was created by Rob, if you look at the history. The only changes since were typos + formatting.

Also, the way the wiki (is supposed to) work, is that anything in the Canon section was either written or approved by the authors.

Everything else (even things that the fans are certain of) should go into the proposed canon or speculation sections.

raphfrk
2009-05-17, 03:31 PM
It's the first time I see the assumption that uncroaking/moving has to be renewed every turn. It seems more intuitive that it's either done once and good forever, or not done at all. I don't think the trophy gwiffon head has to be re-stuffed every turn.


I think if you do something with the body, then you have converted the body from a corpse into something else, so it no longer follows the corpse rules.

It seems reasonable that moving doesn't chance the status.

However, I guess moving the body into a storage room would count as claiming, so maybe only needs to be done once.

It would be pretty lucky if Parson hit on a way to keep corpses around by burying them.

teratorn
2009-05-17, 03:37 PM
Wikis are known to have a wonderful, wonderful Tool of the Titans called "Arkenpagehistory (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Croaking&action=history)". Here's a link (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Croaking&oldid=662) to the page as written by Rob Balder, with no alteration by third parties.

It's indeed a wonderful tool. I wonder how Rob explains the gobwin we saw in the previous strip. "Moved" by the volcano? The archons and RCC were allied with Jetstone so though the coalition disappeared the sides where those units issued from were still there, so the night thing needs not to apply. But then should the archons count as Charlescom or Jetstone?

Misty death also seems "against the rules." The link was broken before dawn, so she shouldn't be there in the morning. Unless any small touch counts as moving.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-05-17, 03:53 PM
This could lead to storing thousands upon thousands of corpses to be uncroaked as needed by necromancers - that would make it a little too convenient, even with normal limitations of necromancy (number of corpses that can be uncroaked in one turn, time before they'll decay). I'd rather expect that the corpses need to be moved every turn - which might, just might, still mean that Misty has been "moved" by the volcano's explosion :smallwink:

Have you never read any fantasy novels where the necromancer visited an ancient battle ground to raise an army of the dead, or laired in an ancient tomb or huge graveyard and raised a massive number of undead from the many MANY corpses buiried or entombed therein?

It is a very common story point in stories with evil magic users.

Just think...the start of a new religion...bury your dead, and they will be granted new life in service to the Titians through their Tools.:smallbiggrin:

teratorn
2009-05-17, 05:22 PM
The gems are on the table, so it looks Parson can't send them directly into the treasury. Is that something that only Stanley can do?

rman
2009-05-17, 05:30 PM
The gems are on the table, so it looks Parson can't send them directly into the treasury. Is that something that only Stanley can do?

I would say that the table is the treasury right now.

Everything else go *boom*. Although it does look like Sizemore has started work.

raphfrk
2009-05-17, 05:59 PM
The gems are on the table, so it looks Parson can't send them directly into the treasury. Is that something that only Stanley can do?

More Balder stuff :smallsmile: here (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Gem).

Gem -> schmuckers can be done by caster/warlord/ruler.
schmuckers -> gem requires a moneymancer.

You can see his edits here (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/Balder).

Some items:

Scrolls (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Scroll)
Purse (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Purse)
Treasury (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Treasury)
Croaking (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Croaking)
Rand (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Rand)

teratorn
2009-05-17, 06:29 PM
More Balder stuff :smallsmile: here (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Gem).

Gem -> schmuckers can be done by caster/warlord/ruler.
schmuckers -> gem requires a moneymancer.


Thanks, that solves the schmucker conversion part. But not the transfer into the treasury. Parson probably needs to feed the treasury to rebuild the city. I wonder about the cost (and how many turns?).

Justyn
2009-05-17, 06:32 PM
I think it might be a way of trying to get back into Stanley's good graces or something along those lines.

zerombr
2009-05-17, 06:47 PM
i am forgetting exactly what Maggie did to deserve such animosity, can anyone point me to the appropriate page(s)?

Gez
2009-05-17, 06:51 PM
i am forgetting exactly what Maggie did to deserve such animosity, can anyone point me to the appropriate page(s)?

She killed Misty (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0093.html). Oh, and she kinda looks like Margaret Thatcher. :smalltongue:

raphfrk
2009-05-17, 06:51 PM
i am forgetting exactly what Maggie did to deserve such animosity, can anyone point me to the appropriate page(s)?

This (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F084.jpg) is the main page. Basically, it is implied that when breaking the link with Jack and Misty, she focused all of the damage on the other 2. Thus, she took very little damage (if any), Jack went crazy and Misty was killed.

Ofc, maybe most of the damage happened due to Parson saying Misty's name when they were linked up. Thus, Maggie needed to deal with damage that was ultimately caused by Parson. Ofc, the link was inherently dangerous.

SteveMB
2009-05-17, 07:07 PM
huh? are the wikis created by Rob and/or Jamie? I thought that was a community effort, independent of Rob and Jamie.

The protocol is that fan-edited material should be listed as "Proposed Canon" or "Speculation". The heading "Canon" is reserved for the creators to officially recognize something as a confirmed fact about the Erfworld universe.

hajo
2009-05-17, 08:01 PM
This could lead to storing thousands upon thousands of corpses to be uncroaked as needed by necromancers - that would make it a little too convenient
How about 'storing' them on wagons, and carting them around each day ? :smalleek:

ishnar
2009-05-17, 08:54 PM
I think it might be a way of trying to get back into Stanley's good graces or something along those lines.

Yea, the psycological effect of showing someone a bunch of gems will probably be greater than pointing out the new treasury value.

datalaughing
2009-05-17, 10:25 PM
The protocol is that fan-edited material should be listed as "Proposed Canon" or "Speculation". The heading "Canon" is reserved for the creators to officially recognize something as a confirmed fact about the Erfworld universe.

Honestly, I've always felt canon was more like anything that was actually confirmed in the material. I've heard creators say a lot of stuff that they later changed in the show/comic/movies/books because the changes made more sense for the story as it went on. I wouldn't call something canon until it's established in the strip explicitly.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-05-17, 11:46 PM
Don't forget the other rule about 'cannon'...with enough time, anything is subject to change.

One day we think we know the whole story...next thing you know, you wake up and Patrick Duffy is in the shower...not cool...but it wasn't the first and sure as hell wasn't the last.

Spot
2009-05-18, 12:46 AM
Yea, the psycological effect of showing someone a bunch of gems will probably be greater than pointing out the new treasury value.


Good point. The gems are probably part of a planned show-and-tell moment when Stanley gets back.

Glorendil
2009-05-18, 02:58 AM
The last episodes are more like epilogue than anything... a bit on the slow side, and it seems that the action is winding down. I wonder if it'll pick up when Stanley returns or not.

Another thing that occured to me is that we know that Parson is a hippiemancer... But hippiemancy is a magic class, not a magic discipline (see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0040.html).

So what is Parson? Can he do all 3 disciplines in his magic class if he puts his mind to it? And what would be the effects of Flower-Power, Signamancy and Date-a-mancy?

Parson is not that much of a peace person... Is him being a hippiemancer means he's destined to bring peace (also hinted by Janis)? maybe this is something he'll grow into in future books. Also, if he conquers the world, or generate a huge war at Wanda's side it will be in conflict with his destiny, which in turn might put him in opposition with Wanda.

I think that in the last several pages we see growth in Parson, growth that may eventually bring him to "the other side".

Kilkrazy
2009-05-18, 04:05 AM
The last episodes are more like epilogue than anything... a bit on the slow side, and it seems that the action is winding down. I wonder if it'll pick up when Stanley returns or not.

Another thing that occured to me is that we know that Parson is a hippiemancer... But hippiemancy is a magic class, not a magic discipline (see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0040.html).

So what is Parson? Can he do all 3 disciplines in his magic class if he puts his mind to it? And what would be the effects of Flower-Power, Signamancy and Date-a-mancy?

Parson is not that much of a peace person... Is him being a hippiemancer means he's destined to bring peace (also hinted by Janis)? maybe this is something he'll grow into in future books. Also, if he conquers the world, or generate a huge war at Wanda's side it will be in conflict with his destiny, which in turn might put him in opposition with Wanda.

I think that in the last several pages we see growth in Parson, growth that may eventually bring him to "the other side".

We don't know that Parson is a Hippiemancer, only that the Grand Abbie said he was, which may have been to shield him from the other inhabitants of the Magic Kingdom. We have never seen him do any magic.

RolyPoly
2009-05-18, 04:51 AM
I think that a reasonable rule would be that if they are moved during the turn of a side, then they don't de-pop until that side has completed its subsequent turn (with destroyed sides counting as taking a clean up turn even after they have been destroyed).


Remember that Sizemore said he 'changed the terrain type' when the volcano uncroaked. It may be that changing the terrain in which the croaked units lie has the same effect as moving the bodies. It would be impossible to pull this stunt on a regular basis, as battles are rarely fought inside uncroaked volcanos.

Still, the strategy for a future campaign of erfworld conquest looks straightforward. The ever-growing dycrypted army of Goblin's Knob needs to attack and defeat it's enemies one by one, decrypting the enemy casualties. The first one could be tricky, but after that it will start to snowball, as the balance of forces becomes progressively more favourable.

Glorendil
2009-05-18, 04:56 AM
We don't know that Parson is a Hippiemancer, only that the Grand Abbie said he was, which may have been to shield him from the other inhabitants of the Magic Kingdom. We have never seen him do any magic.

We've seen him go through the portal and survive, and him being a Hippiemancer is the explanation Janis gave to explain that. He may not be trained, but he may have the potential to be a caster, so I don't think the fact that we haven't seen him doing any magic counts.

As for her explanation being true or not, that is debateable, but personally I don't see a reason to think her explanation is false.

Oslecamo
2009-05-18, 05:57 AM
As for her explanation being true or not, that is debateable, but personally I don't see a reason to think her explanation is false.

Because as soon as Hamster woke up he was kicked out of the magic kingdom, while being told that he shouldn't be there.

Plus when Hamster entered MK none of the other mancers recognized him as one of their did they? Why would the hippiemancer be any better at recognizing potential magic?

Or even Wanda or Maggie, both great magic specialists?

Hamster's spell compels him to do all on his power to win battles, and if he was a mancer, hell, then certainly someone would've noticed it and taked the time to teach him a few tricks to help, since we've seen magic in Efworld can be freaking powerfull.

Glorendil
2009-05-18, 06:22 AM
Plus when Hamster entered MK none of the other mancers recognized him as one of their did they? Why would the hippiemancer be any better at recognizing potential magic?

Or even Wanda or Maggie, both great magic specialists?


First, Parson's stats don't show, so he can't be "recognized" in the normal way Erfworld units can be.

Janis is a great abbie, and obviously all the casters around at the portal respected her and followed her lead, even though they all seem to be great casters, on par or even greater than Wanda or Maggie.

IMO Janis' knowledge must be vast, and she was the only one that recognized the potential with Parson, and the reason why he survived the portal.

If she wanted to mislead the others, using the mathamancer ploy would've been much easier and much more believable... I mean, come on - saying that an out-of-this-world giant warlord is a hippiemancer doesn't sound believable, and the mathamancy artifact he's wearing should be much easier to explain him being a mathamancer... Yet she chose this rather strange answer.

MickJay
2009-05-18, 06:31 AM
Have you never read any fantasy novels where the necromancer visited an ancient battle ground to raise an army of the dead, or laired in an ancient tomb or huge graveyard and raised a massive number of undead from the many MANY corpses buiried or entombed therein?

It is a very common story point in stories with evil magic users.

Just think...the start of a new religion...bury your dead, and they will be granted new life in service to the Titians through their Tools.:smallbiggrin:

Indeed, but that would be horribly unbalanced in a game, unless the necromancy was concieved to work that way (for now, I don't see it - disappearing corpses which nobody bothers to bury, with Misty being an exception, hint that there are no stockpiles of corpses ready for decroaking even at places where croakamancer is present).

Oslecamo
2009-05-18, 06:37 AM
If she wanted to mislead the others, using the mathamancer ploy would've been much easier and much more believable... I mean, come on - saying that an out-of-this-world giant warlord is a hippiemancer doesn't sound believable, and the mathamancy artifact he's wearing should be much easier to explain him being a mathamancer... Yet she chose this rather strange answer.

It isn't strage at all. Let's see what would've hapened if she chose the mathmancer answer:

Abie:He's a mathmancer
GrandMathmancer:Hmm, I don't think so, and I'm a much better mathmancer than you are Abie. You're clearly lying to us so it's best we execute this "Hamster".
Abie: Oh s****

Hamster gets killed.


By saying that Hamster is an Hippymancer, Abie was basically saying "This guy is now under my protection. Anyone who wants to mess with him will answer to ME."

Why? Because Abie saw that Hamster could be the one to end war in Efworld once and for all. She had to protect him at all costs in the Magic Kingdom. And by saying that he was an hippymancer, she made sure that nobody would uncover her lie, because she's the best hippymancer of all, so her word on hippymancer matters are acepted whitout question. If she had said Hamster was a mathmancer then an actual mathmancer would've uncovered the truth.

Plus, if Hamster had really hippymancie potential, why didn't Abie herself teached him a trick or two? She clearly wants Hamster to suceed, so she would seek to awaken any latent powers Hamster may have.

raphfrk
2009-05-18, 06:43 AM
And by saying that he was an hippymancer, she made sure that nobody would uncover her lie, because she's the best hippymancer of all, so her word on hippymancer matters are acepted whitout question.

And she is pretty blatant about it. She effectively says that he is peaceful, but "guard him anyway", almost daring anyone to question her.

Bookkeeper@Arms
2009-05-18, 06:49 AM
It is possible that Parson has the potential to be a Hippiemancer with proper training. He has some sort of magical potential, otherwise he couldn't have used the portal to the Magic Kingdom (and in anticipation of protests of denial, if anyone could use it what's to prevent warlords from using said portals to invade each other?). So maybe Sizemore could train him in the Hippiemancy skills that he studied but couldn't master himself.

And personally, my opinion of Parson went up when he felt guilty about his role in the blowing-up of Gobwin Knob. Someone who could cause that many deaths and not feel guilty about it isn't human. Of course, he'll likely have a lot more to feel guilty about before this business is concluded.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-05-18, 07:33 AM
well, considering what the spells Wanda cast were called, if he heard enough of them he might start figuring out that spell invocations were actually things in his world...maybe be will mutter IDCLIP, IDDQD, PWNZ0R! and start leaping through walls and slaughtering people while blades bounce harmlessly off him.

fendrin
2009-05-18, 07:55 AM
(and in anticipation of protests of denial, if anyone could use it what's to prevent warlords from using said portals to invade each other?)

Hmm... why wouldn't a warlord use the portals to invade...

Doing so would lose the services of the Magic Kingdom, which have been shown to be rather useful. Given the power of erf magic, angering a whole kingdom of 'casters is unwise and probably fatal. The MK might invade in retribution. Considering the power of 'casters, MK would probably win. Loyalty and Duty would thus prevent the warlord from seriously considering it.

Parson literally had nothing left to lose. He thought that if he stayed he would be croaked. He wasn't sure there would be a side left to lose the MK's services, or be invaded. It was obviously an abnormal situation.

Monan
2009-05-18, 08:01 AM
Not surprising, they once held 11 cities. If you take the ones from Faq there's only three remaining. It looks like popping a caster is really something that doesn't happen very often.

Think of this. The leader of GK has is attuned to an arkentool that allows him to control dwagons. Dwagons are pretty powerful and the leader of GK is a ninny. Therefore what is he going to spend his resources on "popping?" Casters might help him more in ways he won't consider and he seems content with the casters he's "inherited." Also, losing other cities probably has limited Stanley's side's production capability.

Kilkrazy
2009-05-18, 09:42 AM
We've seen him go through the portal and survive, and him being a Hippiemancer is the explanation Janis gave to explain that. He may not be trained, but he may have the potential to be a caster, so I don't think the fact that we haven't seen him doing any magic counts.

As for her explanation being true or not, that is debateable, but personally I don't see a reason to think her explanation is false.

Me neither. I'm just saying we don't know.

The trip through the portal has various possible explanations:

1. He is a magic user.
2. The portal admits everyone regardless of status, but the magic users blast the non-magic users to maintain an aura of invulnerability.
3. The portal does not affect Parson because he is not a unit.
4. The summoning spell protects him.

Spot
2009-05-18, 10:01 AM
The last episodes are more like epilogue than anything... a bit on the slow side, and it seems that the action is winding down. I wonder if it'll pick up when Stanley returns or not.

Another thing that occured to me is that we know that Parson is a hippiemancer... But hippiemancy is a magic class, not a magic discipline (see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0040.html).

So what is Parson? Can he do all 3 disciplines in his magic class if he puts his mind to it? And what would be the effects of Flower-Power, Signamancy and Date-a-mancy?

Parson is not that much of a peace person... Is him being a hippiemancer means he's destined to bring peace (also hinted by Janis)? maybe this is something he'll grow into in future books. Also, if he conquers the world, or generate a huge war at Wanda's side it will be in conflict with his destiny, which in turn might put him in opposition with Wanda.

I think that in the last several pages we see growth in Parson, growth that may eventually bring him to "the other side".


One thing that Maggie commented on, is how extraordinary Parson is by Erfworld standards as a Warrior.

He's considerate, thoughtfull, introspective, ethical, empathetic, and so on, all of which are very much caster-only traits in Erfworld.

In fact, Parson (despite his fantasy of leading bloodless battles) is a lot more like Sizemore personality-wise than someone like Ansom, Jillian, Manpower, or Stanley.

In my mind, *these* are the game-breaking traits that he has, and are much more important in the long run than his ability to crunch numbers.

Stanley can end people under his command with a thought... which leads to a certain sort of semi-loyalty... but Parson has managed to generate a greater ammount of respect and willing loyalty from each of those under his command, in about 3 days flat.

Nargrakhan
2009-05-18, 10:03 AM
Ah... so the point of this page, was to reveal that deep in his heart, Parson wanted to use the WMD attack? And that he didn't cause Maggie to break the link with her suffering from it, because deep down he didn't want that to happen to her? So I take that to mean, there's some measure of freewill in ruthlessness?

Meh... at least he's won a few more loyalty points with Maggie. :smalltongue:

SteveMB
2009-05-18, 10:06 AM
First, Parson's stats don't show, so he can't be "recognized" in the normal way Erfworld units can be.

That probably freaked the boop out of them, hence the large group at the ready to react but not immediately taking action until they had a better idea what was up. That may have also made everybody more inclined to listen to anybody (i.e. Janis) who seemed to be able to make sense of the situation.

fendrin
2009-05-18, 10:12 AM
Ah... so the point of this page, was to reveal that deep in his heart, Parson wanted to use the WMD attack? And that he didn't cause Maggie to break the link with her suffering from it, because deep down he didn't want that to happen to her? So I take that to mean, there's some measure of freewill in ruthlessness?

Meh... at least he's won a few more loyalty points with Maggie. :smalltongue:

I think that perhaps the point is that Parson cannot simply shrug off the guilt that he is feeling. There is no "the devil made me do it" type of excuse. Ruthlessness may have made him more likely to choose to do it, but the desire to do it in the first place was all Parson.

It also continues the exploration of free will, which is one of my favorite aspects of the story.

Faramir
2009-05-18, 10:13 AM
Because as soon as Hamster woke up he was kicked out of the magic kingdom, while being told that he shouldn't be there.

Plus when Hamster entered MK none of the other mancers recognized him as one of their did they? Why would the hippiemancer be any better at recognizing potential magic?

Or even Wanda or Maggie, both great magic specialists?

Hamster's spell compels him to do all on his power to win battles, and if he was a mancer, hell, then certainly someone would've noticed it and taked the time to teach him a few tricks to help, since we've seen magic in Efworld can be freaking powerfull.

Well, I see three possible explanations (there are probably more)

1. A master class caster has more ability to sense their own specialty. So a master class thinkamancer might not be able to sense the presence of hippiemancy.

2. She knows something about the summoning spell that the others don't

3. She lied.

While I agree that the 3rd seems likely it's not the only possibility.

Faramir
2009-05-18, 10:15 AM
One thing that Maggie commented on, is how extraordinary Parson is by Erfworld standards as a Warrior.

He's considerate, thoughtfull, introspective, ethical, empathetic, and so on, all of which are very much caster-only traits in Erfworld.

In fact, Parson (despite his fantasy of leading bloodless battles) is a lot more like Sizemore personality-wise than someone like Ansom, Jillian, Manpower, or Stanley.

In my mind, *these* are the game-breaking traits that he has, and are much more important in the long run than his ability to crunch numbers.

Stanley can end people under his command with a thought... which leads to a certain sort of semi-loyalty... but Parson has managed to generate a greater ammount of respect and willing loyalty from each of those under his command, in about 3 days flat.

I'd say that Vinnie has displayed some of those traits as well, though admittedly not to the same extent as Sizemore. I interpret it as being intended to show how difficult it is to develop those traits in Erfworld as it exists today rather than as being a class-based trait.

Spot
2009-05-18, 10:40 AM
I'd say that Vinnie has displayed some of those traits as well, though admittedly not to the same extent as Sizemore. I interpret it as being intended to show how difficult it is to develop those traits in Erfworld as it exists today rather than as being a class-based trait.


Oh! You're right. I forgot about Vinnie. He does have some of those traits also.

And heck... now that I think about it, one of the cloth golems showed compassion for one of the other cloth golems that had been killed by a spider.

So, these aren't caster-only traits, they're just traits that are difficult to cultivate in a war-game-like world.

Kilkrazy
2009-05-18, 11:45 AM
Ah... so the point of this page, was to reveal that deep in his heart, Parson wanted to use the WMD attack? And that he didn't cause Maggie to break the link with her suffering from it, because deep down he didn't want that to happen to her? So I take that to mean, there's some measure of freewill in ruthlessness?

Meh... at least he's won a few more loyalty points with Maggie. :smalltongue:

Loyalty should have forbidden him to cause Maggie to hit herself with the backlash as it would cause severe damage to a unit.

DigoDragon
2009-05-18, 12:01 PM
I do like Parson's comment to Maggie about her being only the 3rd worst monster on that hill.

Xenon
2009-05-18, 12:08 PM
no he could have done it- realistically, the dirtamancer and croackamancer are more valuable units to his faction than the thinkamancer. if anything, maggie is the most expendable caster of the 3.

T-O-E
2009-05-18, 12:31 PM
Really? I'd say Sizemore.
Thinkamancers are essential.

fendrin
2009-05-18, 12:40 PM
Really? I'd say Sizemore.
Thinkamancers are essential.

And then who would rebuild the city?

teratorn
2009-05-18, 12:49 PM
no he could have done it- realistically, the dirtamancer and croackamancer are more valuable units to his faction than the thinkamancer. if anything, maggie is the most expendable caster of the 3.

Not really, even with all the decrypted it's not clear Parson is strong enough to rely on numbers like Ansom did, he needs strategy, thus he needs to lead his troops. Unless Parson wants to be there in the field he needs a thinkamancer to coordinate his battles. She can contact any units on his side and transmit them his orders, it's like having hundreds of hats.

And yes, I agree with Fendrin, in the short term Sizemore is the most valuable, all those schmuckers going into the treasury are the most important asset just now.

fendrin
2009-05-18, 01:04 PM
Really, of the three (and given what Parson knew at the time) Wanda was the most expendable. think about it... having a massive army for just a few turns would be pretty useless at this point. It's not like he knew she would find & attune to the 'pliers.

chefsotero
2009-05-18, 03:08 PM
Not really, even with all the decrypted it's not clear Parson is strong enough to rely on numbers like Ansom did, he needs strategy, thus he needs to lead his troops. Unless Parson wants to be there in the field he needs a thinkamancer to coordinate his battles. She can contact any units on his side and transmit them his orders, it's like having hundreds of hats.

And yes, I agree with Fendrin, in the short term Sizemore is the most valuable, all those schmuckers going into the treasury are the most important asset just now.

Unless its esaier to pop an thinkmancer than other mancer-flavors, as the most popular theory around here.

then Maggie would be the logical choice

DevilDan
2009-05-18, 03:41 PM
It wasn't going to be as easy as that, Parson...

On the other hand, one can't help one's nature, one can't help seeing what one sees. At the end of the day, I believe that Parson is being too hard on himself: despite the horrendous results of his most recent actions, his brilliance raised that idea and once in his head he couldn't unthink it.

I hadn't really visited the wiki before, assuming it was largely empty and unlikely to contain anything I hadn't seen on the forum. I guess I guessed right about the immaterial nature of treasuries and about the use of a barter system in the magic kingdom.

Gez
2009-05-18, 03:51 PM
Really, of the three (and given what Parson knew at the time) Wanda was the most expendable. think about it... having a massive army for just a few turns would be pretty useless at this point. It's not like he knew she would find & attune to the 'pliers.

Plus, she was already seriously weakened at the time, and it was likely that the backlash from a severed link would cause her to relapse, maybe even finish her off.

Oslecamo
2009-05-18, 07:13 PM
Really, of the three (and given what Parson knew at the time) Wanda was the most expendable. think about it... having a massive army for just a few turns would be pretty useless at this point. It's not like he knew she would find & attune to the 'pliers.

You seem to be forgeting that Wanda can use ALL schools of magic, making her some kind of uber mancer on crack that can do a lot more than simply uncroacking stuff.

Including thinkmancy of her own, as she was the one mind raping Jillian.

fendrin
2009-05-18, 08:21 PM
You seem to be forgeting that Wanda can use ALL schools of magic, making her some kind of uber mancer on crack that can do a lot more than simply uncroacking stuff.

Including thinkmancy of her own, as she was the one mind raping Jillian.

They all can, to varying degrees. Maggie used the Foolamancy that made Bogroll look like Parson.

DevilDan
2009-05-18, 08:25 PM
They all can, to varying degrees. Maggie used the Foolamancy that made Bogroll look like Parson.

That was a scroll, possibly. As was, of course, the Ultimate Warlord spell and whatever scary spells she used to "interrogate" Jill. However, even Sizemore, who is not gifted at other magics, can apparently perform, albeit with little proficiency, magics outside his specialty.

Justyn
2009-05-18, 10:51 PM
That was a scroll, possibly. As was, of course, the Ultimate Warlord spell and whatever scary spells she used to "interrogate" Jill. However, even Sizemore, who is not gifted at other magics, can apparently perform, albeit with little proficiency, magics outside his specialty.

If you are talking about that Shockmancy spell, that was from a scroll (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Scroll). I can't quite recall Sizemore actually ever casting outside his specialty on his own; if I'm wrong, let me know.

Glorendil
2009-05-18, 11:00 PM
Plus, she was already seriously weakened at the time, and it was likely that the backlash from a severed link would cause her to relapse, maybe even finish her off.

I think the whole discussion on which caster was more expendable is irrelevant... I think that Parson was going to tell Maggie to do that as a sort of punishment for what she did to Misty. It had nothing to do with who is more or less expendable, as well as his decision to let her live. He wanted her to pay for Misty's death, and then had a change of heart thinking of how wrong it is. I think this should be very clear from the latest page.

fendrin
2009-05-19, 07:55 AM
I think that Parson was going to tell Maggie to do that as a sort of punishment for what she did to Misty. It had nothing to do with who is more or less expendable, as well as his decision to let her live. He wanted her to pay for Misty's death, and then had a change of heart thinking of how wrong it is. I think this should be very clear from the latest page.

Oh, absolutely. The question is whether or not duty/loyalty would have prevented him from doing it. In other words, did he choose not to do so because he is a good person (or at least not vindictive), or was it because Maggie was too valuable of an asset? This is independent of what Parson thinks is his reasoning. Thinkamancy (including, I presume, natural thinkamancy) is subtle, and would nudge him towards a particular choice.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-05-19, 07:58 AM
We don't know that Parson is a Hippiemancer, only that the Grand Abbie said he was, which may have been to shield him from the other inhabitants of the Magic Kingdom. We have never seen him do any magic.We do, however, have the Word of God from the authors saying that the inconsistencies surrounding Parson being able to use the MK portal immediately after the readers were told that he absolutely could not use the MK portal* would be made clear. This gives the explanation from Abbie a lot more weight, as it directly answers the question the authors promised that there would be a forthcoming answer for. Parson is a Hippymancer, and no matter how distasteful I may personally find this explanation to be, it is the promised answer.


*You know, just like we were told that almost no RCC units could dance fight, followed immediately by every unit of the RCC dance fighting, but I digress.

Gez
2009-05-19, 08:36 AM
I think the whole discussion on which caster was more expendable is irrelevant...

Of course, that was just a tangent. Telling Maggie to take all the backlash would have been pettiness. Telling her to direct all the backlash to Wanda would have been ruthlessness. Tell her "boop it, all casters through the portals and I'm going to follow" was recklessness.

Goshen
2009-05-19, 08:43 AM
no he could have done it- realistically, the dirtamancer and croackamancer are more valuable units to his faction than the thinkamancer. if anything, maggie is the most expendable caster of the 3.

The best option might have been to spread the damage among all three, so they are all hurt but survive. Maybe a bit less on Wanda, because she was still a bit damaged at the time from a different link-break.

So Maggie has feelings. Good! I still admire her own ruthless efficiency, but everything looks better on a believable personality, a person. Perhaps she was truly sorry for having incapacitated two valuable units, Jack and Misty.

Goshen
2009-05-19, 08:46 AM
Of course, that was just a tangent. Telling Maggie to take all the backlash would have been pettiness. Telling her to direct all the backlash to Wanda would have been ruthlessness. Tell her "boop it, all casters through the portals and I'm going to follow" was recklessness.
Perhaps not. The room was crumbling and the whole roof may have fell in. There probably was no time to spare. Of course, he could have made them break their link when they reached the other side. It looked like some time had passed between going through the portal and being confronted by all those casters.

Gez
2009-05-19, 09:05 AM
He expected to die or something in the portal, and the three casters he had just sent where not in a situation where they could have functioned autonomously. Parson had no idea what would happen. He didn't know the casters would be unlinked for free, and he didn't know he would survive and be able to cross the portal back. He could have ordered the linked casters to strengthen the room, the Sizemore-part's expertise in this domain combined with the Wanda-part's power could surely have secured that room, had he given the order to do so. Maybe he even expected Sizemore alone could do it and was going to tell him to do so after being unlinked.

But instead, he said "boop it all" and went with what seemed a more abstract danger than a falling roof. Hence, reckless. That it turned out to be the best choice was not foreseen.

fendrin
2009-05-19, 10:00 AM
He expected to die or something in the portal, and the three casters he had just sent where not in a situation where they could have functioned autonomously. Parson had no idea what would happen. He didn't know the casters would be unlinked for free, and he didn't know he would survive and be able to cross the portal back. He could have ordered the linked casters to strengthen the room, the Sizemore-part's expertise in this domain combined with the Wanda-part's power could surely have secured that room, had he given the order to do so. Maybe he even expected Sizemore alone could do it and was going to tell him to do so after being unlinked.

But instead, he said "boop it all" and went with what seemed a more abstract danger than a falling roof. Hence, reckless. That it turned out to be the best choice was not foreseen.

Eh, I dunno.

To quote Parson (with empahasis added):
"Rocks fall, everybody dies. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0149.html)"

I don't think he intended for any of the structure to remain standing. If they were to protect themselves, the could end up protecting some of the enemy, and then getting ambushed.

Gez
2009-05-19, 10:42 AM
Eh, I dunno.

To quote Parson (with empahasis added):
"Rocks fall, everybody dies. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0149.html)"

I don't think he intended for any of the structure to remain standing. If they were to protect themselves, the could end up protecting some of the enemy, and then getting ambushed.

I said the room, and it's not a structure since it's underground. It's difficult for an enemy not within an underground room to be protected by making the underground room stronger.

Also, that comment was after sending the casters to Portal Park, so it's not like he had much options left at this point.

DoctorJest
2009-05-19, 02:56 PM
And meanwhile, Sizemore rebuilds...

Actually it looks like he's gathering gems.

Sieggy
2009-05-19, 03:37 PM
I am wondering why the 'Perfect Warlord' spell was ever crafted to begin with . . . In terms of game breakers, that's a dilly. Strategy, especially coming from 'outside the box' (literally, in this case . . .) could be counted on to defeat orthodox tactics consistently, even against overwhelmingly superior opposition. I mean, look what Parson did! And he was only a warlord in the most abstract sense of the term . . .

There has to be a major backstory to that by itself; after all, how many sides out there could afford 500,000 schmuckers? And in all likelihood, any side that could afford that much probably wouldn't need it - they would have powerful and entrenched warlords of their own who might get just a tad miffed if the boss decides to blow half a million to get someone better than THEM. I really can't see a spell of that kind of magnitude and potential being crafted on a 'spec' basis - there had to have been a purpose to it.

I suspect that Janice had a hand in this . . . it may be that the casters of Erf long for peace, but as long as the game is being played, this never can be. So, they bring in someone who could maybe actually WIN THE GAME. If the game is over, either the world stops, or peace will reign. Either way, the fighting and killing will finally end. Game over.

Since the spell was pre-packaged, I can definitely see the Hippiemancers putting in their own little search macros. The one actually casting the spell will define the major search parameters, but the hidden macros may also filter out the truly vicious, ruthless types from being brought in.

Consider the artifacts Parson is carrying - they're all worth very considerably more than what the initial spell cost. All to provide him with qualities he lacked . . . Someone had to craft them; I can't see a half million schmucker spell deciding to 'add on' items that were just created from the aethyr that are worth more than the spell cost. That's a game breaker in and of itself were that sort of thing to become common. They were tailored to Parson, which implies an awareness and focus that I just don't see a 'spell' providing.

Somewhere in the background, there's an intelligence influencing events. Could be a cabal of casters who comprise the Magic Kingdom, could be the Titans themselves. Probably this will be developed in Book 3 . . .

Poil
2009-05-19, 04:31 PM
Maybe the real Elvis was simply an agent sent across worlds by the mancers to covertly influence the gaming industry through the disguise of playing music. He could've manipulated events lasting decades beyond his death just to make sure Parson received the perfect upbringing to break erfworld according to the titans will. It's not very far fetched compared to some other theories I've read here...

DevilDan
2009-05-19, 06:54 PM
If you are talking about that Shockmancy spell, that was from a scroll (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Scroll). I can't quite recall Sizemore actually ever casting outside his specialty on his own; if I'm wrong, let me know.

"I'm good at nothing beyond my specialty" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0013.html) suggests to me that he can do other spells, just not very well. It's certainly open to interpretation, but that's my read.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-05-19, 08:52 PM
And meanwhile, Sizemore rebuilds...Actually it looks like he's gathering gems.

Gather, Sizemore, gems while ye may,
Stanley is still a-flying.
And this same warlord that smiles today
tomorrow will be fighting

The glorious Lord of Hamster, Parson,
the higher he's a-leveling,
the sooner will all Erf be won,
the Titan's will fulfilling.

That dirt is best which is the first,
Gobwin and men are warmer,
but being spent, Wanda attuned
with pliers decrypts the former.

Then be not sad, but use your sense,
and while ye may, go bravely.
Though having lost your innocence,
you fight for Erf not Stanley

Goshen
2009-05-19, 10:13 PM
I do have solemn respect for Misty in her resting place, but I must speculate:

I think there is good chance that Misty's grave, and her body, may have been blown to bits in the eruption. Or not, depending on where it was. If the bodies cannot be destroyed that way, her carcass may have been blown into the next hex.

Goshen
2009-05-19, 11:05 PM
Maybe Parson let the link continue because he knew he would either loose one or hurt all of them and maybe still loose one. It makes more sense to keep the uuber-powerful Trimancer together for a while, instead.

A. Hamster
2009-05-20, 03:12 PM
Gather, Sizemore, gems while ye may,
<Snip>*Laughs* A good parody.

Dr. Bath
2009-05-20, 05:11 PM
I do have solemn respect for Misty in her resting place, but I must speculate:

I think there is good chance that Misty's grave, and her body, may have been blown to bits in the eruption. Or not, depending on where it was. If the bodies cannot be destroyed that way, her carcass may have been blown into the next hex.

The body disappears at the end of the day, so it will have long since gone. (it was mentioned in a Klog I think, but Parson wanted there to be a funeral anyway)

SteveMB
2009-05-20, 07:42 PM
The body disappears at the end of the day, so it will have long since gone. (it was mentioned in a Klog I think, but Parson wanted there to be a funeral anyway)

Bodies disappear unless they're uncroaked or moved -- the current commentary on the Erfworld site wiki (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Croaking), under the "Canon" heading reserved for Rob and Jamie's edits, is that a body "claimed" for some purpose (uncroaking or some specific use like the rug and trophy head in Parson's quarters) becomes a permanent object.

Mentok
2009-05-21, 02:45 AM
I'm reasonably certain that the spell that summoned Parson didn't create the mathamancy bracer, it just created a converter for his calculator watch. If that thing wasn't present, then it's just be a piece of plastic and worth nothing.

And if a calculator watch is worth that many schmuckers when interpreted from the PoV of a game, then who knows what gadgets his gaming buddies will have when they're summoned to Erfworld; a cell phone, a Nintendo DS, a laptop, one of those How-To books...

ishnar
2009-05-21, 03:25 PM
And if a calculator watch is worth that many schmuckers when interpreted from the PoV of a game, then who knows what gadgets his gaming buddies will have when they're summoned to Erfworld; a cell phone, a Nintendo DS, a laptop, one of those How-To books...

Once again, I'll say that his bracer does not perform simple calculations at all. If his bracer existed in real life, it would start wars. A percentage may sound very simple, but calculating that percentage is something that is impossible to do, especially because it accounts for special abilities.

Chadwick
2009-05-21, 07:41 PM
Did you see the look on his face? I think "You are a remarkable warrior" was supposed to be dripping in irony. He's just had to acknowledge his dark side: he is perfectly capable of quite a lot of stuff we don't approve of in the real world.

What do you mean by "WE"? lol

El_Chupachichis
2009-05-21, 10:15 PM
I am wondering why the 'Perfect Warlord' spell was ever crafted to begin with . . . In terms of game breakers, that's a dilly. Strategy, especially coming from 'outside the box' (literally, in this case . . .) could be counted on to defeat orthodox tactics consistently, even against overwhelmingly superior opposition. I mean, look what Parson did! And he was only a warlord in the most abstract sense of the term . . .[snip]

Somewhere in the background, there's an intelligence influencing events. Could be a cabal of casters who comprise the Magic Kingdom, could be the Titans themselves. Probably this will be developed in Book 3 . . .

Which makes me think of an interesting analogue to RL military conflicts. Our world, for the most part, has seen rather dramatic changes in military thought, largely due to the changes of technology. Much of the ROE in Erf seemed to be rather static before Parson was summoned. Small variations in tactics, but -- If the RCC's confusion and surprise at every move Parson made -- not really much attempt at innovative thinking for the most part.

Even Ansom's setting up of Dance Fighting was a reaction to a move by Parson, not something he went into battle with intent to use as an advantage over Parson.

It's somewhat surprising that the Magic Kingdom never created an arms race much like we have IRL, with sides competing to build bigger Crap Bombs while also exploring ways to make some permutation of magics that others could not find a timely counter for. A spell like "Ultimate General" would be high on any Overlord's wish list. Heck, Animate Hex as a high-level Croakamancer Scroll would have been invented by now, if players had been thinking outside the Box in terms of what can be bought in the MK.

I know this is not a Game Universe, but more like a universe with game-like qualities in their combat methods. But it almost seemed Tron-Like, where most sides were actually bots that could only run their fights based on scripts, while still possibly capable of learning from the human player's methods.

So, on one hand, it almost seems like the "Ultimate Warrior" spell is, as you speculate, something deliberately designed with conspiratorial goals in mind. On the other hand, there's no evidence of anyone thinking of other uses for magic in a similar vein, which would IMO be a prerequisite for thinking of something so complex.

Of course, since Wanda was obsessed with what was prophecized as her destiny, it's possible that she entered MK and started making requests for really exotic magic. With enough requests to fulfill, perhaps her activities started making Mancers think "outside the box" to fulfill those requests. And, as those requests became more reaching, they may have become aligned with some Grand Predictamancer's odd visions about the End of War.

HandofShadows
2009-05-22, 02:51 AM
Of course, since Wanda was obsessed with what was prophecized as her destiny, it's possible that she entered MK and started making requests for really exotic magic. With enough requests to fulfill, perhaps her activities started making Mancers think "outside the box" to fulfill those requests. And, as those requests became more reaching, they may have become aligned with some Grand Predictamancer's odd visions about the End of War.

To tell the truth I think that the prediction that Wanda would get an Arkentool might have been a set up from Janis and the Conspiricy on some level. Some predictions are self fullfilling. (exmple is Oedipus. His father hear a prediction that he would be killed by his own son, so he told his wife to get ride of his newborn son. The kid survived grew up and later met a man at a crossroadds who he killed. Guess who that man was?). sm

Decius
2009-05-22, 12:22 PM
well, considering what the spells Wanda cast were called, if he heard enough of them he might start figuring out that spell invocations were actually things in his world...maybe be will mutter IDCLIP, IDDQD, PWNZ0R! and start leaping through walls and slaughtering people while blades bounce harmlessly off him.

I'm betting his spells would go along the lines of:
DebugMode 1
spawnitem gem_huge 65535
spawnitem toolbox_arken 4

Hey guys, I just filled the treasury. Oh, and I have four COMPLETE SETS of Arkentools over here, including Arkendishes, Arkenentrenchingtools, and four of the long-lost Arkensaw. Don't worry, there's enough for everyone.

or maybe just

disableAI

Hailfire
2009-05-23, 02:45 AM
Arkensaw... Oh what a horrible pun...

Anyway, what do you guys think will happen when Stanley gets back, will he be head over heels that everyone's dead, pettily angry that his keep's been demolished? Perhaps the latter followed by the former?

Sieggy
2009-05-23, 07:39 AM
Arkensaw... Oh what a horrible pun...

Anyway, what do you guys think will happen when Stanley gets back, will he be head over heels that everyone's dead, pettily angry that his keep's been demolished? Perhaps the latter followed by the former?

I think he will be totally awestruck at the sheer amount of damage and the total number of casualties involved. He may be pissed at the loss of his city, but that will pass the moment he lays eyes on the pile of gems that Sizemore was able to just pick up out of the ground without even tunneling for them.

Given the number of Dwagons he left with and is bringing back, he really doesn't have much room to bitch . . . after all, he lost (got out of the trap by the skin of his teeth), and Parson won. His attackers have been obliterated, his worst enemy (Charley) has been dealt a SERIOUS blow (anyone have a count on how many Archons he lost?) and the Warlord who put the RCC coalition together is now his vassal.

After he stops screaming, he's going to realize that he's in a MUCH better situation now than when he left - then he was looking at losing EVERYTHING and having to start over, creating a new side. Now he has more powerful casters, a huge financial resource, another Arkentool with an attuned user, and his chief opponent as a buttboy. Not to mention the most awesome general who ever walked Erfworld . . .