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Stormthorn
2009-05-17, 11:22 PM
Liquidator

Hit Die: d4
BaB Progression: As fighter
Class Skills
Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex),Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Anatomy) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level
(3 + Int modifier) ◊4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level
3 + Int modifier.
Proficient: With all simple and martial weapons and light armor.

Ability Progression
1- Liquidator Bonus Feat, Delicate Killer, Tools of the Trade
2- Artful Strike 1/day, Immediate Draw
3- Bleeding Critical, Poison Use
4-Sneak Attack +1d6
5- Liquidator Bonus Feat, True Strike 1/day
6- Artful Strike 2/day
7- Armor Penetration
8- Sneak attack +2d6
9- Nerve Sever
10-Liquidator Bonus Feat, Grace, Stay Down!
11- Wounding Attacks
12- Sneak attack +3d6, Improved Artful Strike 3/day
13- Improved Bleeding Critical, Speed Attacks
14- Bypass Damage Reduction
15- Liquidator Bonus Feat, True Strike 2/day
16- Sneak attack +4d6, Precision Strike 1d6
17- Lightening Step, Perfect Lethality
18- Improved Artful Strike 4/day
19- Sudden Strike
20- Liquidator Bonus Feat, Sneak attack +5d6, Impossible Critical

Delicate Killer (Ex): The Liquidator losses its normal ability bonuses to attack and damage and instead applies its dexterity bonus to all attacks made with light, unarmed, or one-handed weapons and its intelligence bonus to damage for all weapons.

Artful Strike (Ex): A given number of times per day dependant upon level the Liquidator may modify a single attack to add his charisma bonus + (1 per 3 levels of Liquidator, rounded down) to his attack and damage rolls and ignore any critical failure results (rolls of 1 on the attack roll do not instantly fail). Starting at level 12 any artful strike adds double the charisma bonus.

Tools of the Trade (Ex): A liquidator is always considered to have a garrote wire, a slashing dagger, and a set of large needles on his person at all times. They are always considered concealed unless drawn and if concealed cannot be located via search checks. If he draws one of these and it is taken from him he may fashion a new one from whatever is in his environment with one hour of work. When using the needles his unarmed attacks deal +1 damage, deal lethal damage, and are piercing weapons. Needles are unarmed weapons with a weight of zero. This weapon can be used in a grapple with no penalty. The garrote wire can also be used in a grapple if the needles are not in use. The wire gives you a +6 circumstance bonus to grapple checks in you initiate the grapple while flanking the opponent. In addition it deals one point of constitution damage each round that you maintain the grapple and an additional point each round that you have the opponent pinned.

Immediate Draw (Ex): A Liquidator at level 2 may draw any weapon (even concealed one) as an immediate action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Bleeding Critical (Ex): After dealing damage with a critical strike the creature struck begins to suffer from bleeding and a steady widening of the wound, often leading to rapid failure in any organs damaged by the attack. Every round after being struck the creature takes one point of damage until a successful First Aid check is made to keep the wound from worsening. The bleeding lasts 2d6+3 rounds if not treated. This ability does not effect beings immune to critical hits or massive damage.
Improved Bleeding Critical: At level 13 the bleeding critical triggers whenever a critical hit is threatened against a creature not immune to critical hits. The DC of the first aid check to stop the bleeding is increased to 20, and the bleeding lasts 4d6+6 rounds.

Poison Use (Ex): As the Assassin Ability

Sneak Attack (Ex): As the rogue ability

True Strike: The Liquidator gains the ability to cast the spell True Strike as an extraordinary ability a given number of times per day.

Armor Penetration (Ex): At level 7 a Liquidator can ignore one point of natural or manufactured armor per 2 levels of Liquidator class, rounded down.

Nerve Sever (Ex): A Liquidator of at least 9th level may take a Ė4 penalty to his attack roll to attempt to also deal damage to the vital nerve bundles of the body. If the attack lands the target, in addition to the damage of the attack, take 1d4 points of temporary strength damage and 1d6 points of dexterity damage. Creatures without working nerves such as oozes, undead, and constructs are immune.

Grace (Ex): As duelist Ability

Stay Down! (Ex): As a full round action a liquidator of at least level 10 may strike at the corpse of a fallen foe (less than 0 hitpoints) so that it is difficult to revive the creature. All spells or abilities that would restore the creature to greater than zero hitpoints have a 75% chance of failing. If the ability/spell fails the same sort of ability/spell cannot be attempted again for 1 day/ class level of Liquidator.

Wounding Attacks (Ex): Any time a Liquidator with this ability attacks with a weapon dealing slashing damage, that weapon is treated as having the Wounding ability.

Speed Attacks (Ex): Whenever a Liquidator makes a full round attack, they may make one additional attack at their full attack bonus.

Bypass Damage Reduction (Ex): A Liquidator at level 14 is so skilled at causing harm that she ignores the first three points of non-Epic damage reduction of her target.

Precision Strike (Ex): As duelist ability.

Lightning Step (Ex): The character no longer provokes attacks of opportunity when moving less than or equal to 20 feet and may take a 10 foot step if they wish any time a 5 foot step is allowed.

Perfect Lethality (Ex): A Liquidator with this ability can deal lethal damage without applying penalties if using a weapon designed to deal nonlethal damage. In addition, effects that would render damage nonlethal (such as Regeneration) fail for 1 hour/ Liquidator Level if used to negate the lethality of any attack by a Liquidator.

Sudden Strike (Ex): The level 19 Liquidator is so fast and deadly that he may draw a weapon, take a five foot step, and make a single attack, all as an immediate action. This ability may only be used once per day. These actions must be made together in that order but any one action may be skipped if the Liquidator wills it.

Impossible Critical (Ex): At level 20 a Liquidator can critical hit beings normally immune to such attacks. They also ignore the effects of Fortification. This ability does not allow secondary abilities such as Bleeding Critical or the power of a Vorpal weapon if the creature would normally be immune to them, it simply allows for extra damage to be dealt.

Liquidator Bonus Feats:
Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Blind-Fight, Agile, Alertness, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Stealthy, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Improved Critical.

DanielLC
2009-05-18, 09:55 AM
If the tools of the trade are hand-made with whatever's nearby, shouldn't there be a penalty for being lower quality?

It seems like nerve sever should be instant death (well, paralysis). Then again, critical hits probably should too. Also, it should only be possible with piercing damage.

Stormthorn
2009-05-18, 11:18 AM
Not a penalty because he is REALLY good at making them.

Hmm...i wanted it to be paralysis but that seemed too powerful. On the other hand, taking them down to zero Dex is the same as paralyzing them.

Kellus
2009-05-18, 10:12 PM
Let me start out by saying that none of this is intended to denegrate you, but since you posted it I am assuming you want honest feedback. Thus, I'll review this class like I would any other posted on the boards.


I dedicate this class to Flickerdart, who dislikes weak classes or ones that arnt unique or strong. This puppy can negate the regeneration of a Tarrasque and critical hit an iron golem. But, you can still tell me its weaker than a wizard if you want. Nothing beats wizards.

Very unprofessional. Even if you are peeved at this guy, there's no reason to pollute this class with it.


Liquidator

Hit Die: d4
BaB Progression: As fighter
Class Skills
Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex),Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Anatomy) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level
(3 + Int modifier) ?4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level
3 + Int modifier.
Proficient: With all simple and martial weapons and light armor.

Where to begin? You're a melee class with d4 hit dice? I understand it's based around all-out offence, but he won't last a second in combat with that kind of hp. WHY would a warrior like this have such a HUGE selection of class skills, including such oddities as Use Rope and Disguise?! None of those have anything to do with dealing damage, which seems to be the entire point of the class. In addition, there are only 10 Knowledge skills, and none of them is Knowledge (anatomy). If you want to homebrew a new Knowledge skill, you should at least explain what it is and what it does.

NOBODY gets odd skill points per level. It's just not done. Sorry, but that's the way it is. You also don't say what the saving throw progressions of the class are. More to the point, this entire thing should be formatted. Nothing looks worse than saying something like "BAB as fighter". Not doing it makes you look like you don't care enough about the readers to put in the effort to present it in the correct manner.


Ability Progression
1- Liquidator Bonus Feat, Delicate Killer, Tools of the Trade
2- Artful Strike 1/day, Immediate Draw
3- Bleeding Critical, Poison Use
4-Sneak Attack +1d6
5- Liquidator Bonus Feat, True Strike 1/day
6- Artful Strike 2/day
7- Armor Penetration
8- Sneak attack +2d6
9- Nerve Sever
10-Liquidator Bonus Feat, Grace, Stay Down!
11- Wounding Attacks
12- Sneak attack +3d6, Improved Artful Strike 3/day
13- Improved Bleeding Critical, Speed Attacks
14- Bypass Damage Reduction
15- Liquidator Bonus Feat, True Strike 2/day
16- Sneak attack +4d6, Precision Strike 1d6
17- Lightening Step, Perfect Lethality
18- Improved Artful Strike 4/day
19- Sudden Strike
20- Liquidator Bonus Feat, Sneak attack +5d6, Impossible Critical

Okay... First, you need a table. I know you can do it, since I saw your other class. Also, when writing out class features on a table, you only capitalize the first letter of each line. Also, you should put the abilities for each level in alphabetical order. For example, at 16th level, this should be:

{table=head]16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+x|+y|+z|Precise strike +1d6, sneak attack +4d6[/table]

Sorry to sound nitpicky, but again it comes back to being willing to put in the effort to make it presentable.


Delicate Killer (Ex): The Liquidator losses its normal ability bonuses to attack and damage and instead applies its dexterity bonus to all attacks made with light, unarmed, or one-handed weapons and its intelligence bonus to damage for all weapons.

Far too powerful at 1st level. Far too powerful in general. It's basically Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and the swashbuckler (Complete Warrior)'s 3rd level class feature, Insightful Strike. What dextrous fighter would NOT take a single level in this class? I don't know, because I also don't know what saving throw bonuses they would get at this level.


Artful Strike (Ex): A given number of times per day dependant upon level the Liquidator may modify a single attack to add his charisma bonus + (1 per 3 levels of Liquidator, rounded down) to his attack and damage rolls and ignore any critical failure results (rolls of 1 on the attack roll do not instantly fail). Starting at level 12 any artful strike adds double the charisma bonus.

Just something I noticed, you don't actually capitalize the name of the class, since it's not a proper noun. You have the PHB, you can verify this in there.

On the other hand, you DO capitalize ability scores, such as Charisma, so as to distinguish between talking about somebody's personality and charisma in general and his specific Charisma numerical score.

The wording of this ability is also very clunky. It's not immediately apparent what it does or how many times per day you can use it. A better way to phrase it might be,

Artful Strike (Ex): As a swift action once per day beginning at 2nd level, a liquidator may strike with great force of personality with a single attack. He adds a competence bonus of 1/3 his class level (rounded down, minimum +1) + his Charisma modifier to the attack and damage roll. If he does not make an attack roll in the round following the use of this ability, it is wasted. If he misses with the attack roll, the ability is still consumed. In addition, such an attack does not automatically miss if the liquidator rolls a natural 1 on the attack roll. Beginning at 12th level, he instead adds a bonus to the attack and damage equal to 1/3 his class level + twice his Charisma modifier.

At 6th level and every 6 levels thereafter, the liquidator gains an additional daily use of artful strike.

-=-

Notice how wordy this is. That's because you need to cover all the bases while still being clear and concise and also sticking to the established format. This is a very complicated ability, and not only do you fail to explain it well but you also leave out vital information. What kind of action is it to activate this ability? What happens if you miss with the attack roll? What type of bonus is it? I extrapolated these for my version of this ability, but you really need to explain them better.

Putting all of this aside, it's an okay ability, but nothing really interesting. Quite bland and it also doesn't make a lot of sense. Why are you adding your Charisma modifier? Are you blinding the enemy with your dazzling smile or your rapier wit? It doesn't make sense unless it's explained, and also doesn't fit the way Intelligence and Dexterity were set up as your primary ability scores with the (shudder) Delicate Killer class feature only one level ago. On that note, is that really the best name you could come up with? Moving on.

Oh, as another aside, you should really be talking about these class features in the order in which the class acquires them. You get artful strike at 2nd level, but have it before tools of the trade in this list. On that note:


Tools of the Trade (Ex): A liquidator is always considered to have a garrote wire, a slashing dagger, and a set of large needles on his person at all times. They are always considered concealed unless drawn and if concealed cannot be located via search checks. If he draws one of these and it is taken from him he may fashion a new one from whatever is in his environment with one hour of work. When using the needles his unarmed attacks deal +1 damage, deal lethal damage, and are piercing weapons. Needles are unarmed weapons with a weight of zero. This weapon can be used in a grapple with no penalty. The garrote wire can also be used in a grapple if the needles are not in use. The wire gives you a +6 circumstance bonus to grapple checks in you initiate the grapple while flanking the opponent. In addition it deals one point of constitution damage each round that you maintain the grapple and an additional point each round that you have the opponent pinned.

NO. You do NOT use class features to write plot or give items to people. Even existing mechanics like this (the only one that comes to mind is the wizard's spellbook) are present only to facilitate other mechanics, such as the entire ruleset of spellcasting. This ability seems arbitrary and above all LAZY. If you want them to be able to do all this with assassin weapons, they should simply gain proficiency with them and then gain class features that give them additional uses for the weapons instead of always saying they have them in their pocket. What happens if a liquidator sells his tools of the trade?

Can he whip a new set out of his back pocket? Seems like a quick way to get rich. What if he's floating naked in the middle of Limbo? Good thing he smuggled a garrote wire in his intestines for just this situation! Obviously I'm being facetious, but I hope you get my point.

The wording for this ability is also similarly clunky and ambiguous. You need to anticipate player questions like I brought up last paragraph and address them immediately and clearly. The biggest problem with this ability is that rules already exist to do most of these things. Sleight of Hand, for instance, can already conceal weapons. There's no point introducing arbitrary mechanics for no other reason than convenience. The point of a shared rule system is just that: that everybody follow the same rules. EVEN IF you want to let a liquidator do all of these things with his special weapons, this is too much for a single class feature especially at 1st level. It's bloated and inefficient.

What this class feature really SHOULD be is a set of new homebrewed weapons that anybody can use but which, like special monk weapons, have special uses for a liquidator. They should be exotic weapons which he of course gains free proficiency with. But that would of course require a lot more effort to properly format on your part. I guess it depends how much work youíre willing to put into this to do a proper job of it.


Immediate Draw (Ex): A Liquidator at level 2 may draw any weapon (even concealed one) as an immediate action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Although interesting, this is actually worse than the Quick Draw feat, since it uses up your swift or immediate action for the turn. Why would you possible need to draw a weapon out of your turn? At the very least, give him the Quick Draw feat and then give this additional use for it if you absolutely must have it.

As an additional note, this is a good time to bring up grammar. Although this is a very simple ability, you still manage to make it unclear what the ability does. For conventionís sake, this should say ďBeginning at 2nd levelĒ instead of ďA Liquidator at level 2Ē. Again, no capitalization for the class name OR the class features. Instead of ď(even concealed one)Ē, try adding an ďaĒ for reading ease. Immediate actions by definition do not provoke attacks of opportunity, so thereís no reason to bloat this class feature by including it. Be familiar with the rules before you quote them.


Bleeding Critical (Ex): After dealing damage with a critical strike the creature struck begins to suffer from bleeding and a steady widening of the wound, often leading to rapid failure in any organs damaged by the attack. Every round after being struck the creature takes one point of damage until a successful First Aid check is made to keep the wound from worsening. The bleeding lasts 2d6+3 rounds if not treated. This ability does not effect beings immune to critical hits or massive damage.
Improved Bleeding Critical: At level 13 the bleeding critical triggers whenever a critical hit is threatened against a creature not immune to critical hits. The DC of the first aid check to stop the bleeding is increased to 20, and the bleeding lasts 4d6+6 rounds.

This is an interesting ability. However, it is poorly worded and phrased. Thereís a new mistake youíve made here, which is that you are combining fluff descriptions of the ability with the actual mechanics. You describe how the creature struck by your critical hit begins to suffer from ďbleeding and a steady widening of the woundĒ, but then you say that it merely deals 1 damage every round. When you say the wound widens steadily, you imply that it gets worse, whereas the mechanics imply that itís merely a bleeding wound. Furthermore, what if the attack isnít slashing or piercing and thus does not cause bleeding? What if it is nonlethal damage, such as with a sap? You also in the fluff mention organ failure as a cause of this damage. What if the attack doesnít hit an organ? What if you prick somebodyís finger and get a critical hit? Again, anticipate objections, and clarify it before it becomes an issue. You can pretty much take it as writ from hereon in that I repeat my comments about grammar and proper spelling and formatting so that I donít have to keep repeating it.

Also, ďFirst AidĒ is not a skill. ďHealĒ, however, is. What you should be saying is that you can mend the wound with a DC whatever Heal check instead of invoking an obscure use of an obscure skill and expecting people to keep up.

Then you have improved bleeding critical. As you have it here, these are two seperate class features and should be listed seperately in order. Alternatively, you could make them the same class feature by listing them as bleeding critical and bleeding critical (improved) on the table. The wording of improved bleeding critical also says that if you threaten a critical you make the bleeding wound. What if you threaten the critical with, say, a roll of an 18 on an attack roll with a rapier, but you miss the enemy? Does he suddenly start bleeding for no reason? WHO KNOWS? You need to write with a greater anticipation of how your new rules could be interpreted and spot potential loopholes.


Poison Use (Ex): As the Assassin Ability

Sneak Attack (Ex): As the rogue ability

LAZY. If youíre going to give a class feature, you write it out, especially since these are from the SRD. You could easily copy/paste, but you havenít put in the effort. Furthermore, your sneak attack ability is NOT ďasĒ the rogueís class feature, since it progresses at a different rate. It looks much more presentable and professional if you actually take the time to write stuff out. People shouldnít have to hunt around in books in order to find out what you mean. This is especially lazy, seeing as how poison use is exactly 20 words long. Again, ďassassinĒ is not capitalized, nor is ďabilityĒ. Interestingly, you format the sneak attack bit correctly.


True Strike: The Liquidator gains the ability to cast the spell True Strike as an extraordinary ability a given number of times per day.

First, WHY do you get this ability?! Youíve already got a very similar and complex mechanic that youíve introduced through artful strike which does a similar effect. Moreover, this isnít an arcane class in any sense, so why would it get an arcane spell as an extraordinary ability? Lazy. You should also actually list the number of times per day it can be used instead of referring to the chart. What I found especially amusing is that while you specified in the text that this is an extraordinary ability, you failed to put the (Ex) tag on it. Be consistent.

Irrelevant of the above objection is that this is a VERY bad ability for the liquidator, since True Strike is a standard action to cast. Especially for someone as squishy as a liquidator who canít afford to waste actions in combat, this is terrible.


Armor Penetration (Ex): At level 7 a Liquidator can ignore one point of natural or manufactured armor per 2 levels of Liquidator class, rounded down.

An interesting idea, but a very dumb progression. If itís going to scale like this, you should introduce it earlier. Also, itís way too strong, since it always applies. A better idea might be to allow him to make a certain number of attacks per day as touch attacks instead of creating new mechanics to do the same thing. Instead, youíre just giving this ability to ALL of his attacks for no reason.


Nerve Sever (Ex): A Liquidator of at least 9th level may take a Ė4 penalty to his attack roll to attempt to also deal damage to the vital nerve bundles of the body. If the attack lands the target, in addition to the damage of the attack, take 1d4 points of temporary strength damage and 1d6 points of dexterity damage. Creatures without working nerves such as oozes, undead, and constructs are immune.

Wording clunky: check.
Poor grammar: check.

ďTemporaryĒ ability damage does not exist. ďAbility damageĒ does. Be clear with what exactly this ability does in the first place. Secondly, HORRENDOUSLY overpowered, since it can be done as often as you want, and since this guy is making effectively touch attacks ALL THE TIME, heís really never going to be missing, especially with full base attack bonus. A -4 penalty doesnít BEGIN to balance 1d4 Strength damage and 1d6 Dexterity damage potentially with every single attack roll. The potency of ability damage is clear with abilities such as this or the spell shivering touch, because there are powerful monsters such as dragons with ridiculously low Dexterity. This is why ability damage is rationed to characters very sparingly, so they donít become, well, GODS.


Grace (Ex): As duelist Ability

First, see my notes about the assassin and rogue abilities. Second, this would be a lot more helpful if I knew what Reflex saving throw this was adding to in the first place.

Thirdly, it makes absolutely no sense for the flavour of the character! Suddenly youíre not supposed to wear armour at all?! Try reading the grace class feature before you start assigning it! Also, not only is it bad form to simply quote another classí ability as you did with sneak attack, itís EXCEPTIONALLY bad form to quote a prestige classí class feature since by definition they are exceptions to the normal ruleset.


Stay Down! (Ex): As a full round action a liquidator of at least level 10 may strike at the corpse of a fallen foe (less than 0 hitpoints) so that it is difficult to revive the creature. All spells or abilities that would restore the creature to greater than zero hitpoints have a 75% chance of failing. If the ability/spell fails the same sort of ability/spell cannot be attempted again for 1 day/ class level of Liquidator.

Wait, what? Not only is this never relevant to any campaign, but itís also a ridiculout mechanic to invoke percentile dice and some kind of mystic bond with your weapon that makes it difficult to resurrect someone for a number of days per class level. Perhaps after that time, the body reassembles itself to facilitate resurrection. Also, WHY would a cleric who fails not be able to retry? Because the target is exceptionally dead?! Also, by the wording, when a cleric fails, he loses the ability to cast ANY resurrection spells, even on other targets. Iím trying to avoid picking on too many spelling and clarity issues, but this is just silly.

Also, it doesnít make much sense. Any sense. Does your weapon spontaneously disintegrate the body of your fallen enemy? It would be a lot simpler to say that your special attack has the same effect as a disintegrate spell, although it still is farfetched.


Wounding Attacks (Ex): Any time a Liquidator with this ability attacks with a weapon dealing slashing damage, that weapon is treated as having the Wounding ability.

Again, youíre quoting existing mechanics without explaining what they do. Also, suddenly they specialize in slashing weapons? Why? They never did before! Finally, see my note about ability score damage and its consequences in gameplay. This is a free +2 weapon modifier for absolutely no reason. Not to mention showing laziness in that youíre unwilling to invent new mechanics.


Speed Attacks (Ex): Whenever a Liquidator makes a full round attack, they may make one additional attack at their full attack bonus.

Same thing as wounding, although at least you explained what this ability does. And this is another +3 weapon modifier given out like candy. With something like this, like flurry of blows or haste, you also MUST, absolutely MUST say that it doesnít stack with other similar effects or mayhem ensues.


Bypass Damage Reduction (Ex): A Liquidator at level 14 is so skilled at causing harm that she ignores the first three points of non-Epic damage reduction of her target.

Okay. Kind of arbitrary at level 14 (this would be a better ability acquired earlier and scaling with your class level), and also kind of weak by that point. 3 extra damage? Donít break the bank.


Precision Strike (Ex): As duelist ability.

Please see my notes about quoting other classí class features. Also see my note about suddenly introducing new requirements, such as using a single light or one-handed weapon to the exclusion of all else. Also, get the name of the ability right. Itís called Precise Strike. Come on now.


Lightning Step (Ex): The character no longer provokes attacks of opportunity when moving less than or equal to 20 feet and may take a 10 foot step if they wish any time a 5 foot step is allowed.

This doesnít make any sense. This class has not been focused around mobility or movement before now, so why on earth would they get such a powerful movement boost? It completely negates Mobility and the Tumble skill, and furthermore the ability to take a 10ft. step is far too powerful for melee combat.


Perfect Lethality (Ex): A Liquidator with this ability can deal lethal damage without applying penalties if using a weapon designed to deal nonlethal damage. In addition, effects that would render damage nonlethal (such as Regeneration) fail for 1 hour/ Liquidator Level if used to negate the lethality of any attack by a Liquidator.

You donít mess around with regeneration. Monsters that have regeneration have it for a reason, and itís to make them very hard to kill. Furthermore, the 1 hour/level limit is just dumb, arbitrary, and doesnít make any sense with the context of the class. Why does this suddenly happen? What is causing it? Also, regeneration is enough to cure death if the enemy is reduced to below -10 hp. This ability only suppresses regeneration, it does not negate it. A few hours later, the monster is just going to start healing again. Thatís why the Tarrasque is pretty much impossible to kill without a Wish, because nothing penetrates its regeneration. If you kill it, it will just pull itself together.


Sudden Strike (Ex): The level 19 Liquidator is so fast and deadly that he may draw a weapon, take a five foot step, and make a single attack, all as an immediate action. This ability may only be used once per day. These actions must be made together in that order but any one action may be skipped if the Liquidator wills it.

Okay, kind of a neat class feature. It should have been acquired much earlier than level 19, because at 19th level itís completely irrelevant. Also, donít take about 5ft. steps when you just gave the ability to take 10ft. steps instead. Pay attention to your own writing and make it consistent. You should either specify that it works with the 10ft. step class feature, or it only works if you take a 5ft. step instead.


Impossible Critical (Ex): At level 20 a Liquidator can critical hit beings normally immune to such attacks. They also ignore the effects of Fortification. This ability does not allow secondary abilities such as Bleeding Critical or the power of a Vorpal weapon if the creature would normally be immune to them, it simply allows for extra damage to be dealt.

Capstones are supposed to be powerful, so I donít really have too much trouble with this. Okay.


Liquidator Bonus Feats:
Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Blind-Fight, Agile, Alertness, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Stealthy, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Improved Critical.

You never mention the bonus feats in the class progression. Take a leaf out of the fighterís book and have a class feature called Bonus Feats.

Also, take a look at the feats you allow. Why on earth would Weapon FInesse be available when (shudder) the delicate killer class feature does the same thing and more AT 1ST LEVEL?! Why would Two-Weapon Fighting be available if you get the precise strike class feature that requires using a single weapon?! Why do you get Mobility if you get to negate attacks of opportunity?! Finally, if you are going to allow fighter-only feats such as Weapon Specialization, you should also note that your class levels stack with fighter levels to determine your effective fighter levels for the purposes of that feat. Pay attention to the feats you are giving him for free.

-=-

In conclusion, this class is ridiculous. Simultaneously extraordinarily weak and extraordinarily powerful, this does not add up to a net balance. You donít give overwhelming power and mitigate it by making the class so very easily killable. It doesnít make for a fun roleplaying experience or a fun time in combat which is what this class is based around.

You need to pick a SINGLE niche and try to fill it. Youíre throwing out a huge number of unrelated class features that have nothing to do with each other and donít make any sense logically. The grammar needs to be checked, abilities mostly need to be rewritten or scrapped entirely as appropriate, the entire thing needs to be formatted and the class is still completely unplayable except of course as a 1st-level dip.

Thereís also no fluff, except where there shouldnít be. What distinguishes this class from a regular fighter? A base class should be something unique that gets to do things nobody else can. You then specialize by pursuing a prestige class. This class is like a fighter with a whole bunch of strange and unneccessary class features.

Again, please note that none of this is a criticism on you or a personal attack. Iím simply reviewing this class like I would any I was examining, and I assume that since you posted it for viewing on the board you want as much feedback as you can get.

Good luck and happy homebrewing!

Stormthorn
2009-05-19, 01:11 AM
NOBODY gets odd skill points per level. It's just not done. Sorry, but that's the way it is. You also don't say what the saving throw progressions of the class are. More to the point, this entire thing should be formatted. Nothing looks worse than saying something like "BAB as fighter". Not doing it makes you look like you don't care enough about the readers to put in the effort to present it in the correct manner.

Im a bit put off by the fact that you start out with things like "no breaking convention" and "Use tables". Those seem minor and pointless. WHy would i waste time writing things into a table format when this works too.


Where to begin? You're a melee class with d4 hit dice? I understand it's based around all-out offence, but he won't last a second in combat with that kind of hp. WHY would a warrior like this have such a HUGE selection of class skills, including such oddities as Use Rope and Disguise?! None of those have anything to do with dealing damage, which seems to be the entire point of the class. In addition, there are only 10 Knowledge skills, and none of them is Knowledge (anatomy). If you want to homebrew a new Knowledge skill, you should at least explain what it is and what it does.

Ok, thats fixable. Give him less skills and raise his hit die.


Far too powerful at 1st level. Far too powerful in general. It's basically Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and the swashbuckler (Complete Warrior)'s 3rd level class feature, Insightful Strike. What dextrous fighter would NOT take a single level in this class? I don't know, because I also don't know what saving throw bonuses they would get at this level.
Well my other class was all complaints about how weak it was. Now its not weak. And i like giving powerful abilities at level 1 and 20 to sorta define the class.


Why are you adding your Charisma modifier? Are you blinding the enemy with your dazzling smile or your rapier wit?

Charisma is used because their is no Creativity ability, and the idea here is an attack that applies aesthetics to your strike.


On that note, is that really the best name you could come up with? Moving on.
Yes, and that was a definite personal attack.


What kind of action is it to activate this ability? What happens if you miss with the attack roll? What type of bonus is it?
Hmm...its an attack action because it states that he modifies his attack. As such he would behave as if he had missed his attack. I thought that was clear. I do need to state what sort of bonus it is.


NO. You do NOT use class features to write plot or give items to people.
Ok. I can remove that ability. I just dont want a class focused on always being able to kill something to suddenly be unable to kill something.


Although interesting, this is actually worse than the Quick Draw feat, since it uses up your swift or immediate action for the turn.
Im just giving another option, not baring them from Quick Draw. If you want i can just give them the quick draw tho.


As an additional note, this is a good time to bring up grammar.
I hate you grammaticly correct people (as a whole). Why cant the rest of the world just leave me in peace to format my thoughts in the way that is most logical to myself rather than inconveniance me and mess up my flow of logic with their grammer?


What if you threaten the critical with, say, a roll of an 18 on an attack roll with a rapier, but you miss the enemy? Does he suddenly start bleeding for no reason? WHO KNOWS? You need to write with a greater anticipation of how your new rules could be interpreted and spot potential loopholes
What happens if you threaten a critical with a normal attack and miss? This seems like common logic to me. If you miss the HOW COULD HE BE BLEEDING? Are the players really that dense/malicous?


LAZY.
TRUE. But im not aplogizing for it. I have to constantly be jumping between Word and three or four different pages of the SRD to write this so im going to take shortcuts to keep from going insane. And i hate writting anything but a few forms of poetry.


Moreover, this isnít an arcane class in any sense, so why would it get an arcane spell as an extraordinary ability?
You answered your own question here. Its an Ex because its a result of his preternatural insight into killing things, not a spell (which would be a SPELL LIKE ability).


Also, ďFirst AidĒ is not a skill. ďHealĒ, however, is. What you should be
Yea. BUUUUT first aid is a check you can make with the heal skill. And it has a set DC so i dont need to post one for the basic ability.


Irrelevant of the above objection is that this is a VERY bad ability for the liquidator, since True Strike is a standard action to cast. Especially for someone as squishy as a liquidator who canít afford to waste actions in combat, this is terrible.
Yes, that is a problem.


An interesting idea, but a very dumb progression. If itís going to scale like this, you should introduce it earlier. Also, itís way too strong, since it always applies.
Oh no! The guy i tried to dedicate this too was all up in my face for not having strong enough abilities! No WAY are you getting me to nerf it.


Secondly, HORRENDOUSLY overpowered, since it can be done as often as you want, and since this guy is making effectively touch attacks ALL THE TIME, heís really never going to be missing, especially with full base attack bonus.
I see your point. Perhaps we nerf this one.


Thirdly, it makes absolutely no sense for the flavour of the character! Suddenly youíre not supposed to wear armour at all?! Try reading the grace class feature before you start assigning it
I always intended thsi character to be an agile damage dealer (see the TV Trope: Glass Cannon) but i suppose it does come a little out of left field for someone on the outside.


Wait, what? Not only is this never relevant to any campaign, but itís also a ridiculout mechanic to invoke percentile dice and some kind of mystic bond with your weapon that makes it difficult to resurrect someone for a number of days per class level. Perhaps after that time, the body reassembles itself to facilitate resurrection. Also, WHY would a cleric who fails not be able to retry? Because the target is exceptionally dead?! Also, by the wording, when a cleric fails, he loses the ability to cast ANY resurrection spells, even on other targets. Iím trying to avoid picking on too many spelling and clarity issues, but this is just silly.

Also, it doesnít make much sense. Any sense. Does your weapon spontaneously disintegrate the body of your fallen enemy? It would be a lot simpler to say that your special attack has the same effect as a disintegrate spell, although it still is farfetched.

The idea was that he damages the body with (insert weapon here) that even magical powers sometimes fail utterly to return it to life. I dont see how that too crazy. I mean, the game lets someone have NEGETIVE HITPOINTS. Thus it allows someone to BE exceptionaly dead.


Again, youíre quoting existing mechanics without explaining what they do. Also, suddenly they specialize in slashing weapons? Why? They never did before! Finally, see my note about ability score damage and its consequences in gameplay. This is a free +2 weapon modifier for absolutely no reason. Not to mention showing laziness in that youíre unwilling to invent new mechanics.
Whats wrong with quoting mechanics? Even a total newbie like myself knows what wounding does.
And it isnt for no reason. Its because he advanced to that level. Why do Druids get poison immunity or Fighter get bonus feats.
Why would i invent a new mechanic for a constitution damageing effect for melee attacks when one already exists?


With something like this, like flurry of blows or haste, you also MUST, absolutely MUST say that it doesnít stack with other similar effects or mayhem ensues.
Thats a good point.


Okay. Kind of arbitrary at level 14 (this would be a better ability acquired earlier and scaling with your class level), and also kind of weak by that point. 3 extra damage? Donít break the bank.
You can chalk that one up to me never having played to a high enough level to actualy encounter anything with DR. I based it on being able to negate a Barbarians DR.


This doesnít make any sense. This class has not been focused around mobility or movement before now, so why on earth would they get such a powerful movement boost? It completely negates Mobility and the Tumble skill, and furthermore the ability to take a 10ft. step is far too powerful for melee combat.
Its just five extra feet dude. And it IS a high level ability. I know he isnt a movement based guy but i gave him this to set up his Sudden Strike to be more deadly (which IS the point of the character).


Also, regeneration is enough to cure death if the enemy is reduced to below -10 hp. This ability only suppresses regeneration, it does not negate it. A few hours later, the monster is just going to start healing again. Thatís why the Tarrasque is pretty much impossible to kill without a Wish, because nothing penetrates its regeneration. If you kill it, it will just pull itself together.
But you could come back once or twice a day and hit it again. It was just designed to help level the playing field against regeneration (you wanna talk overpowered? Point your finger at that ability).


Okay, kind of a neat class feature. It should have been acquired much earlier than level 19, because at 19th level itís completely irrelevant. Also, donít take about 5ft. steps when you just gave the ability to take 10ft. steps instead. Pay attention to your own writing and make it consistent.
Lol. If i had called it a 10' step you would have told me that the "proper term" is a five foot step. Im well aware it lets him move further but it doesnt change the name that the DnD folks gave the action.
And its not irrelevent. It was almost the capstone. You cast True Strike on your turn and then when the other dude ties to move into you you sudden action his ass and slide for for an Artful Strike + True Strike+ Nerve Sever + Wounding attack. Its the culmination of that line of abilities.


Capstones are supposed to be powerful, so I donít really have too much trouble with this. Okay.
Its nice to see i didnt utterly fail at something. I should stick to brewing monsters. Those are way easier than classes and i get less **** for it.


Also, take a look at the feats you allow. Why on earth would Weapon FInesse be available when (shudder) the delicate killer class feature does the same thing and more AT 1ST LEVEL?! Why would Two-Weapon Fighting be available if you get the precise strike class feature that requires using a single weapon?! Why do you get Mobility if you get to negate attacks of opportunity?!
First and last ones are mistakes i guess. The Two Weapon fighting is in case you wanted FLEXIBILITY. You dont have to take advantage of Precise Strike ya know.


Finally, if you are going to allow fighter-only feats such as Weapon Specialization, you should also note that your class levels stack with fighter levels to determine your effective fighter levels for the purposes of that feat.
Good point. I might just remove those since this class owes more in concept to rogues and assassins than fighters.


You need to pick a SINGLE niche and try to fill it. Youíre throwing out a huge number of unrelated class features that have nothing to do with each other and donít make any sense logically.
Look at my explanation for Sudden Strike. See how all those abilities work together? They are clearly related from the big picture standpoint. Even more so if you look at its niche: Killing Stuff.


What distinguishes this class from a regular fighter? A base class should be something unique that gets to do things nobody else can. You then specialize by pursuing a prestige class. This class is like a fighter with a whole bunch of strange and unneccessary class features.

I think your missing the point of the class. Picture this.
A thin perhaps underweight man in a buisness suit. His hair is out of place and he looks rather pathetic. No one pays him any mind. Then, in the blink of an eye, he draws a thin dagger and darts with amazing speed and grace up behind what appears to be just another person on the street. But to his keen eyes this person is both a target and a canvas. A chance to shock the world with the dark beauty of the perfect kill.
The little man slides the knife into the back of his targets neck, severing the spinal cord, and then in one fluid motion he spins the knife in a circular motion and slashes through the jugular and larynx.
The victim was a high-powered Exec with many enemies, but today his bullet proof vest that he wears under his suit has done him no good. The little man saw its tale-tell outline and avoided. The victim didnt even have time to realize what was happening before he ended up on the gorund paralyzed and silent in a pool of his own freely gushing blood.
If the police catch the little man he will die, because he isnt much of a brawler and was never very tough. But that doesnt matter to the little man. He lives to end as many lives as perfectly as possible until that day when he himself gets to experiance the joy of death.


Good luck and happy homebrewing!
yea but after this week i think im hanging up the hat on Classes. Too complicated and no one seems to like (or even understand) what i try to create. My work with monsters is more fulfilling even if it takes forever.

TSED
2009-05-19, 01:33 AM
Im a bit put off by the fact that you start out with things like "no breaking convention" and "Use tables". Those seem minor and pointless. WHy would i waste time writing things into a table format when this works too.

Because people like me skim through these, get put off by unreadable formats, and skip it.

Then we skim the comments, see some one try to give you a TON of presumably constructive criticism, and then you come off and say "waste of time."

Yeah, sorry, but no. I'm more abrasive than your friend there, so I'll flat out say it: listen to people trying to help.



yea but after this week i think im hanging up the hat on Classes. Too complicated and no one seems to like (or even understand) what i try to create. My work with monsters is more fulfilling even if it takes forever.

Too complicated? It's only complicated because you create these crazy unreadable formats and wall of texts without separating the crunch and the fluff! I make classes all the time (don't share most of them) and it takes me like 2 hours from concept to finalizing the thing.

In short: don't pull out the angst because people aren't digging what you're creating. Listen to their feedback, and try to learn. There are a lot of smart people in the world, and some of them are nice enough to help. Soon you'll see exactly what they meant and begin incorporating these neat little tricks without realising it. Next thing you know, your stuff is awesome, hurray!

If you want to make an overwhelming first-strike-kill class, you'll need to put more into the class than this. Right now, a rogue does it better, and has all sorts of lovely other tricks up its sleeve.